Ep.30 Broadway Producers Drew Desky and Dane Levens speak about how they find and enable new artists.

For the second season of the Alternate Stages podcast, we'll be talking to some influential theater leaders at the national level, including Broadway, academic theater, creative writers, and many others. Don't worry, we'll still continue to bring local theater artists from the Albuquerque area in future episodes and continue to promote Albuquerque and New Mexico-based live theater. We're just broadening our lens to include more of the creative process of brand new show development, including producers and writers. If you're a paid subscriber, you'll have access to bonus episodes including snippets of brand new plays written by community writers. Sign up for the paid tier now so you don't miss these new works.

Today on Alternate Stages, I'm joined by Emmy Award, Drama League, Drama Desk, Outer Critics Circle winning producers, Drew Desky and Dane Levens of DrewAndDane.com. They've produced past Broadway shows, Dear Evan Hansen, Be More Chill, Merrily We Roll Along, Catch Me If You Can, and Allegiance with George Takei and Lea Salonga. To see the collection of Drew and Dane's many current exciting producing projects, check out drewanddane.com. The following interview was recorded on September 3rd, 2025 before the 2025-2026 Broadway season got fully underway.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:03

Hi, this is Rob Armstrong Martin.

SPEAKER_02 0:06

I'm really excited to announce that for the second season of the Alternate Stages Podcast, we'll be talking to some influential theater leaders at the national level, including Broadway, Academic Theater, Creative Writers, and many others. Today's episode will bring you my conversation with two producers of New York and London Theater who've done Broadway, Off-Broadway, and as we joke, off Broadway.

SPEAKER_03 0:38

Don't worry, we'll still continue to bring local theater artists from the Albuquerque area in future episodes.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

And continue to promote Albuquerque and lexical-based live theater. We're just broadening our lens to include more of the creative process of brand new show developers, including producers and writers. If you're a paid subscriber, you'll have access to bonus episodes including snippets of brand new plays written by Community Writers. Sign up for the paid tier now so you don't miss these new works.

SPEAKER_03 1:27

Today on Alternate Stages, I'm joined by Emmy Award Drama League, Drama Desk, Outer Critic Circle winning producers Drew Desky and Dane Levins. They've produced past Broadway shows Dear Evan Hansen, Be More Chill, Merrily We Roll Along, Catch Me If We Can, and Allegiance with George Takai and Leia Salonga. This interview was recorded September 3rd, 2025. To see the collection of Drew and Dane's many current exciting producing projects, check out Drewandane.com. The following interview was recorded on September 3rd, 2025. Before the 25-26 Broadway season got fully underway, we apologize for a few minor glitches in the audio recording. Welcome back to alternate stages. Today I am joined by Emmy Award, Drama League, Drama Desk, Outer Critic Circle winning producers, Rudesky and Dane Levins, who and Dane have produced past Broadway, such as Dear Evan Hansen, Be More Chill, Merrily We Roll Along, Catch Me If We Can, Allegiance with George Takei and Leia Salonga, and currently have um, correct me if I'm wrong, three shows on Broadway: Just in Time with Jonathan Groff, Gipsy with Audrey McDonald, and Hades Town, plus lots and lots of off-Broadway London shows, including the current London blockbuster, The Hunger Games on Stage. I have to see that. Drew and Dane, welcome. What did I leave out? And uh, and and how's how's life going? It sounds like you're terribly busy, both of you.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

Oh, thank you, Rob. Life has been life is as busy as you make it, we've learned. Uh and theater has become you know a passion that is worth being busy for. Sir, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

The uh your your reference to uh current Broadway productions, um, you may know that uh Gypsy just closed, but we're still active with Hades Town and especially just in time.

SPEAKER_03 3:35

Yes, yeah, great, great. Oh, I can't believe I missed Audra and Gypsy. I mean, that show is so iconic, and she is one of my favorites.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Um did you catch her performance of Rose's Turn on the Tonys?

SPEAKER_03 3:50

I did not. Uh that's in my binge list.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

Yes, please binge that because we that was our first time attending the Tony Awards, and she knocked the roof off of the place with that number and got a well-deserved long-standing ovation as a result of just that one number. Um, she you know, got into it and got more out of it more than anyone else we've ever seen.

SPEAKER_03 4:23

Well, yeah, that is where that number is where I've seen a lot of uh divas test their medal over the years. I won't name names, but um you know it's not often a successful number because it's so late in the show and maybe the diva's tired, but she is one of a kind. So I oh I'm just so jealous and proud of you too.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

That's amazing. In New York, we know many of the lead producers. Um, we hope to uh continue working with them in the future as well. Uh, but they um they're just so consummate in their professionalism and artistry. Uh it's it's been so much fun.

SPEAKER_03 5:03

Yeah. Well, and so our viewers uh may not know that you just referred to Dane as something that uh there's many flavors and levels of producer on Broadway, um, maybe not so many in the off-Broadway and regional. Um, but um we can get into that later if you want to talk about the different levels and lead producers, et cetera, or if you want to talk about that now. I've I've heard the term torchbearer when I was taking classes and producing. Is that a term that's still in current use for the lead producer?

SPEAKER_01 5:40

It still is. It is a type of lead producer, especially in shows with multiple lead producers. Usually there is one that has developed the show over time and led it along from its inception. And usually that lead producer is entitled to a little bit more on the back end, and that's what's known as torchbearer points.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

I see.

SPEAKER_01 6:05

Uh, but but of but since you brought it up, yes, we actually function in all of the realms of participating in theater. Um, we have we started as investors, and some of the shows that you mentioned in the introduction, we actually were or are investors in that show and not producers. Uh, and then you know, we became co-producers after a time where we are raising money to help the lead producers produce the show. Um, in some cases, we also um offer um marketing advice. And in some cases, we actually also offer creative advice as well, depending on what the lead producers really want out of the co-producers. And then we also have acted as an executive producer on certain projects uh where we really are, you know, the main to the lead producers. More advisory? Much, much more advisory, uh, but also shapes how the production is put together, you know, in a lot of ways. Uh, and then obviously as a lead producer as well.

SPEAKER_03 7:20

Yeah. So uh, you know, many of our audience uh may not have the awareness of the business, especially in commercial theater, to understand that the uh producers while always have a creative background um to have longevity, uh it takes what you both have, which is a deep business and financial background and financial literacy. Tell us about um Drew, I sort of know your roots in theater because we were seedlings together in college acting class. Um but did each of you tell us, you know, what are your roots in theater, what got you started as a kid in theater? Dane, tell us how you got your start in theater.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

There was a time when my mother, um, after my parents had divorced, um, wanted to um introduce me to more cultural things in our lives. Uh so probably when I was in my um late single digits or early double digits as a kid, um, she and I went to see a production of Michel Legrand's The Umbrellas of Cherbourg at the what was then called the Los Angeles Music Center. And I just fell in love with the with the whole immenseness and pageantry of it. Um, so that was my first taste of musical theater. Um, but but fast forward over the years to the point where I met Drew almost 25 years ago, we've always been big fans of live theater. Uh, whether it's you know, uh regional touring, Broadway, whatever. And um, and Drew will talk more about this in a moment, but at some point, besides just buying tickets and supporting theater as spectators, if you will, audience members, we we came to meet people in the business, the the creators, the producers. And from them, uh, some of whom are still mentors to us today, um, we we got interested in actually helping to um craft ways of telling the stories of these fantastic authors and these and these performers. Um, and we'll go into a little more detail on that uh in a little bit. But um, you know, it's sort of it's it's evolved um from uh little kid fascination, the whole spectacle, the art form, to today um helping to um help authors and composers, etc., tell their stories in in in meaningful and um experiential ways. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:56

Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

And Rob, as you know, because you know we met each other in college before college, uh, in high school, I was part of my high school's drama club. Uh, and that was really my first taste of theater. Um, we would have a once-a-year field trip up to see one of the national touring productions in San Francisco. So I do remember three of those four years. I was lucky enough to see uh Rex Harrison in My Fair Lady on his last tour, Yule Brenner and the King and I in his last tour, and Carol Channing in Hello Dolly on her last tour. Wow. So uh Trifecta. Yes. Yeah, that's uh blessed by that, uh, and then did a little tiny bit of dabbling in college, but was really fork focused more on the music side of things, you know, in addition to my other. Then, as Dane said, you know, really appreciated theater from attending theater when I first moved to New York and had no money. Um, I would look up in New York magazine in the off-off Broadway section on a weekend and find, you know, go to a show that I'd never heard of in a theater that I could barely find. And tickets were, you know, five, eight, ten dollars. On a splurge, they were $12. Uh and just go see things. And so for what differentiates us, I think, versus other producers, most other producers, is that for the majority of our lives, we've been purely audience members, and that gives us a little bit of a different perspective because ultimately theater is for an audience. Without an audience, why are we doing theater? Uh, and so then how we got into investing, we um were asked by a friend of mine who was on the leadership council of GLAD with me at the time. Uh and you know, through, and that first show that we invested in was Catch Me If You Can, and through that group got um involved in some other investing opportunities as well. Uh, but how a few years later, um the story of how we got to be producers, we love to call six degrees of Jason Tam. And that's because we've known Jason uh separately for a number of years. And he was starring off Broadway in Marry Me a Little, you know, the king company. He introduced us to his director, Jonathan Silverstein. Um, when we met him, he said you really should meet Jason's co-star, Lauren Molina, who was uh doing performing at the gala at the Bucks County Playhouse back in 2014. Um so we met her, fell in to be fast friends with her. She said, You need to come up and see my show in New York at 54 below, the Skivies. So we went to her Sivy show. Her skivys partner is Nick Searley. Um, so we met Nick and fell in with him, and then he said, There's an opportunity that's come up. You need to meet these two producers who I know, Andy Sandberg and Shea Sullivan, because they are going to uh lead the revival of Bill Russell's pageant, the musical. Uh and so I met them and they asked, they asked us to be co-producers. And that's that's how, so it's always you know, through this chain of people who you meet who have become lifelong friends. Multiple chains of separation, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 14:01

Yeah. And and getting to know people before either of you were famous often leads to a very productive partnership. I know you both have helped promote the careers of um sort of young unknown performers who who then became huge. Um uh one comes to mind, uh Christina oh, I can't think of her. Christina Bianco. Bianco, uh, who is what a woman of a thousand voices. Truly amazing. So um I I think it's amazing that you do that sort of performer nurturing, maybe as a as a different track or or uh in in conjunction with some of the show nurturing and author and director nurturing that you do. Um so wow, six so six degrees of Jason Tam. Um for the for you Gen Zers in uh we've dropped a lot of names. Carol Channing, Google her. Um and uh wow, I that that trifecta sounds amazing. Um that that generation who I don't know if they were, I guess they were famous on stage before they were in the movies, but I know them as movie stars. And yeah, you saw them on stage, how how amazing those opportunities were in high school.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

Well, and and in fact, you mentioned knowing people before they became famous, you know, our favorite story of that, um, which has led to some of our participation in theater, um, currently even, um, is back in 2004. Um, we used to go to a place down 9th Avenue in Hell's Kitchen called Chelsea Grill of Hell's Kitchen. And we would, you know, have a weekend brunch there. And the brunch waiter was someone who Fresh Face had just you know come to New York a couple months before from Lancaster, Pennsylvania, told us his life story, and he said, Hi, I'm your waiter. My name is Jonathan. It was Jonathan Groff. And you discovered Jonathan Groff. We didn't discover him, but we actually met him but while he was auditioning long before Spring Awakening. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

Yeah. He was on a server at that restaurant that summer. I think that counts as discovering.

SPEAKER_03 16:30

You knew him before he was a star.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

That's somazing. So uh so fast forward to when we became co-producers on Little Shop of Horrors off Broadway, in which he played Seymour and originated that role in the revival. Uh at the very first preview, uh, we're standing there. He comes out to greet us and he looks at us and he says, You look familiar. And so we related the story of how we originally met. He said, Chelsea, hold on, don't tell me. Let me remember your brunch order. Oh we had not seen him for 15 years. He had been Tony nominated, you know, in between the dude, done so many shows. After 15 years, he remembered our brunch order.

SPEAKER_03 17:22

That's amazing. Well, then he was a good waiter. He wasn't just phoning it in.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

No, um, but it really does go to you know, some of you know, I'd say one of the big assets is you know, both being a producer, but also on the acting side, being a good listener.

SPEAKER_04 17:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:46

Um and you know, and that really does stem from empathy as well. And, you know, there are people like Jonathan who have that in spades.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

Yeah. After all these years, after that first restaurant experience, he's still down to earth, very professional. He's very humble and unassuming. Um, you might know he's he's not a big fan of social media, so you don't see him post a lot of things there. Maybe others do about him. Um, but even today, with all this success, he's still very grounded. And we enjoy working with with creative, artistic people like that. And we seek them out. And we've been very fortunate in in our various projects to to work with uh some really great families, we call them, of creative people like Jonathan.

SPEAKER_03 18:36

Well, you're you're bumping up against a topic which is near and dear to my heart, which is the uh the the authenticity of live theater versus the always present recorded uh streaming on demand stuff um by which people make great careers and lots of money, but maybe um you know, makes it harder to have authenticity in a live production or um may weed people out of having a kind of career. Um do you do you feel like um the art form of theater is under any duress or threat from this sort of uh digital dominion or digital tsunami um where the audience is increasingly through convenience being uh preoccupied by other things before they even have a chance to buy a theater ticket?

SPEAKER_01 19:33

It's a great question and one that we could spend hours on, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_03 19:38

Sure, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:39

Um personally, um I believe theater you know has some external threats. I don't believe that the digital and streaming competition is one of the main threats. Um because I believe that theater offers something different. Yes, they are both entertainment, but there is a direct connection that an audience member gets with the people on stage and with the other people in that shared audience that someone sitting on their couch streaming Netflix does not get. And that makes the experience very different. I'd say that it really highlights how important the fourth wall actually is because theater has a fourth wall and streaming does not.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

Right. And of course, the the buzzword right now that everyone's talking about in entertainment and elsewhere is AI. In the recorded entertainment world, film, TV, and similar, sure, uh, creatives and others are worried about what AI might do to eliminate jobs, help produce things that humans normally think of, create, write, etc. Um, I think theater, and we saw this during the COVID pandemic, um, really shows that it is very resilient while it's still sensitive to certain things, like uh an unannounced, unexpected thing like a pandemic. I think eventually people um realize the importance of it and come back to it. Now, how long it takes, nobody knows. Um, the the powers that be on Broadway had no idea how long it would take for them to rebuild their audience after COVID, but they're coming back. Um and um so I think I think as Drew said, um there's something about an in theater live experience that you just don't get looking at a screen. Um something that's you know scripted, edited, um, you know, in more controlled. Uh we love just seeing even even Little mishaps on stage, because we know that that's human. And no matter how professional and how many times they rehearse, it's going to happen. Something's going to happen. And if you happen to be there when it does, fine. Don't worry. You know, you've paid good money to see these professionals deliver this story. And I think that's where theater thrives in delivering something you can't get looking at a screen.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

And Dane brought up AI, and I think that that's also changing how people have their relationship with their screen, because all of a sudden, with AI taking over more and more of what people see on their phone, on the web, all of a sudden doubt creeps in as to whether something is authentic. You know, to back to your point of authenticity. And I think that as people ultimately are seeking connections with other people and with experiences, as Dane said, uh, I believe that they have to shut off their screens and enter the real world again. And I think that we are actually seeing as a reaction to the explosion of AI, I think we are actually seeing younger generations actually do that now.

SPEAKER_03 23:25

Yeah, yeah. Well, that's interesting. You know, when I was running a theater, we had a slogan, we used it a lot in our marketing, life is better live. And I was always on the lookout for uh, you know, medical and clinical evidence um on the effects of the pandemic where everything became screen-based and and whether you can extrapolate from that to these sort of on-demand consumption lifestyles. And there is quite a lot of evidence, mostly from the education sector, um, that kids trying to learn um, you know, over the screen-based thing. It's just the engagement's just not there. Learning is social. And and by the same token, the social learning that goes on when a group of people is watching live entertainment together, learning is socially mediated. Um so that you know, you have a different experience because there are people sitting next to you, strangers often, but maybe maybe family, um, and uh and entertainment. So the engagement um the evidence for better engagement and uh we say better cognitive experience is there. Um and and so yeah, I I I fully agree. And and one thing I don't I don't see AI yet doing and maybe never will is creating a live audience around you. Um you know, AI isn't is not yet going to create a holodeck of a theater audience around us, or at least I hope not.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

But I I I I agree with everything you just said, Rob. And I to put it another way, you know, the difference between real life and screen life, you know, on screen, you really you only use two senses, and in real life, you use all five senses. And so you are engaging more parts of your brain.

SPEAKER_00 25:18

In particular to those points. Um whether we're lead producers on a project or investors, Drew and I now find ourselves observing the audience, watching audience members before, during, and after a show to gauge their reaction to it. Because uh being experiential, being in a theater with so many other people for anywhere from 90 minutes to two and a half hours, um, you learn a lot as a producer about what works, what doesn't work. Um, and you also learn something about yourself as an audience member. What am I looking for? What do I want to walk away with? And one thing that Drew and I um sort of ask or try to instill in some of the creatives that we work with is when you write a story or write a score, what do you want the audience members to walk away with when that curtain comes down? And you walk out with so many other people chatting about, thinking about what you just experienced. And so um, you know, that whole uh takeaway is so crucial uh in terms of live entertainment.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

And I think one of the reasons why we asked that question, you know, it sort of gets back to, you know, when we describe ourselves as producers, what does that mean? And the way that we, I believe everybody will define it a little differently. Um, the way that we define it for ourselves is we feel that we have two main responsibilities as producers, as opposed to the director and that person's responsibilities, the designers and their responsibilities, the actors and their responsibilities, uh, and the crew. Uh our two main responsibilities we feel are for the two entities in theater that have no other voice. And one of those is the actual show itself. Um, the writers of the show are different than their actual play because they've written other shows also, and they're real people. But this show, the show, you know, can't really speak in the room. Uh, so we have to make sure that we optimize what that show is going to be, not just for this production, but hopefully it'll be done decades later as well. And the other entity that we have to be the voice for is the audience. And that's what calling back to where we say we've been audience members most of our lives, that's something that we feel very natural. And when Dane said that we want to really understand what writers want the audience to take away when they leave the theater, um, that informs you know how we want the show to interact with the audience.

SPEAKER_03 28:06

Yeah. That's so interesting. Very uh similar to a conversation I had a couple weeks ago with uh nationally known dramaturg, Lenora Inez Brown. You probably knew her at Dartmouth, uh, Drew, I think when she was an 88. Yes. And I I directed her in somebody's senior thesis play, uh, where she grew up to be a Yale dramaturg. And and and speaks of those responsibilities similarly to how you just did, like caretaking of the story on behalf of the story itself, and and getting the writer to sharpen their intent, and also trying to curate the audience's emotional journey. Um and so that, for example, uh a challenge I spoke to her a lot about, and maybe you you have had this similar challenge. When you're marketing a show, trying to get the marketing staff to understand what you want to emphasize and what the takeaways are, especially if it's a new play, so that they're not just marketing stereotypes for you. Um and a dramaturg, uh, you know, she she gave me some tools how to speak to marketing people about what the audience's experience will be. So um it's fascinating. It sounds like you guys are really doing similar work to what she does.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

When you mentioned the marketing, we actually had a real experience with with regard to that. And that was for our play Dracula, a comedy of terrors. Um we were working with one of the large marketing firms uh when we were producing the show in 2023 off Broadway at New World Stages. For its New York debut. And in our first meeting with the marketing company, we said we want everything to be in the voice of the show. The show is very much a hilarious comedy in the style of if you mixed Monty Python and Charles Ludlum and the Ridiculous Theater Company and Mel Brooks and threw it into a blender and spun it on high. Uh fast-based, hilarious, quick change, but you know, funny but sexy.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:33

Uh and you know, within a couple of meetings, they got it. And so as a result of that, plus the very punny sense of humor that I inherited from my father, uh, we developed this marketing campaign that ended up taking off and going viral on social media, um, on both Instagram and TikTok.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

An important point there is um again, just made it clear from the beginning what we are our intent was in terms of marketing this new idea or take on Dracula, Bram Stoker's iconic character. And we uh we we um incorporated the ideas of the two authors of the show. Um we made it clear to the marketing team that you know occasionally we would be contributing something to your creative process. We weren't just gonna hand the reins over to them and have them do sort of a cookie-cutter approach to uh uh a one-act 90-minute comedy show. Um, and and in in the end, it all worked out beautifully. We were all very happy with what the what the final product was.

SPEAKER_01 31:44

Yeah. And it was very effective. And and to be fair, I mean, and neither Dane nor I have a background in marketing. Our associate producer Clay is you know very expert, you know, almost instinctively at marketing as well. And so as we were putting this together, we didn't really know that we it felt like we were creating something new. And shockingly, the marketing company submitted it at the end of the year, and the marketing campaign won the Cleo Award for um best social media campaign for live entertainment.

SPEAKER_03 32:19

That's amazing. Yeah. Well, and and you know, we we produced that here locally, and I was um really gratified to see uh among many, many offerings, and I think another standard Dracula going on at the same month, we really pulled in that audience that wanted the funny Halloween show out of Dracula Comedy of Terrors. So your work that you did helped, you know, helped those in the regions also, you know, do a similar um angle on it. And um and yeah, and I think that's um that's important work. I think people um, you know, a lot of our audience are community theater and non-professional and and think that the creativity of shows just happens and you don't realize there's a lot of decision making and discernment required on see what kind of show is this, what kind of a show are we making when you're the you're the first, you two are often the first, and others um you know revive your work. Um so that's uh that that's an interesting perspective, and that's where I think the creativity you both are called on to you know discover in in the decision making you do, where does that come from? Did you have to train for that? Is it trial and error? Um, what kind of preparation um should a commercial producer, commercial theater producer, have in order to be able to do that?

SPEAKER_00 33:53

Well to be honest, in our experience, um Rob, um just as we were mentoring with some of our friends who were already producers uh on that side of theater um years before we were, um being um introduced to and working with these these marketing firms, knowing what they typically do and what they don't do, uh plus we had a very fun sort of lighthearted approach to it. We just wanted people to have fun. You know, the show was fun, let's let's let the marketing be fun and that process be fun as well. And and as a result, some of the the um surprisingly tangible results of that, we we we, you know, in in developing the voice for the show, which directly led into the marketing um uh category or uh strategy for it, we found that it was a mix of not just younger people interested in a in a sexy, funny sort of take on this classic novel, but also we had people of all ages. We had at some point people toward the end of the run in New York, you know, dressing in costume uh to honor their favorite characters on stage. So there's a little bit of cosplay involved. Um, but they really got into it. And I think the fact that we really leaned heavily into um social media and digital marketing really um resonated because this is where the audience eventually, we found out, um, was getting their information about the show and people's reaction to it versus a more traditional, let's say, static billboard or a what they call a um a trash can belly um um um print media sort of thing. Um you know, we we we quickly learned what does and doesn't work with this kind of show and the and the voice of it, and we pivoted towards what we thought would work, and it turned out to work.

SPEAKER_01 35:45

But to your broader, to your broader question about you know, how did we learn to make the decisions? You know, I think that that's where you know our you know, each of us had experience in corporate America. And you know, in companies, in businesses, you make decisions every day as you attain you know some level of you know management responsibilities, you know, first over processes and then with people as well. Uh and it's it's a soft skill that is highly valuable that you're you know, when you're working at I'll call it your normal job, um, you don't realize that you're learning every day because you're in the weeds and you don't see the forest sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

I mean, to be honest, a lot of what we're learning is by trial and error. You just don't know because you you don't have that prior experience. So it's it's both exciting but also kind of scary because you're dealing with, in some cases, you know, very large amounts of money, um, people's livelihoods, uh, and ultimately the success of the show, both artistically and financially for the long term. Uh, and we want to be involved with our projects as long as we can. We don't, like some producers, simply move on after a show is done running. Uh, we want to nurture it, we want to uh uh introduce it to as wide and as large an audience anywhere in the world, technically, uh, that we can. And so we work toward that goal.

SPEAKER_01 37:25

But we we also are cognizant that you know, one of the ways that we really enjoy working is collaboration. And so, you know, part of this is building the right team and associating with the right people and having the right mentors uh to be able to have confidence in the decisions that you're making and also making sure that there is buy-in on the decisions. You know, ultimately it is the producer's responsibility to make the decisions. Uh but you know, it's not just a two-person job. It, you know, it that's why everyone says it takes a village to make theater. They're absolutely yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:14

And it takes a bigger village on in commercial theater than maybe in non-for-profit theater. Presumably, I maybe not. Um so uh I I want to talk more about the collaborative um side of things, that I guess you're probably doing more collaborative things now that you have this track record. Um so you know, commercial theater and nonprofit theater have very different management practices. Uh they may share similar challenges, such as marketing, um, finding an audience. Uh, but then also there's some tiny overlap in nonprofit the some nonprofit theaters who are trying to develop artists and scripts, and you do a lot of that. Um what is the sort of um new play development and author development landscape like um these days? And um and how, you know, what are your sort of favorite parts of it and and and and how do you match make with new authors and new scripts?

SPEAKER_01 39:21

Okay. Um so I'd say the first thing is there are you know an exponential number more writers and projects than there actually are producers uh and theaters out there. So we receive a good number of unsolicited emails, you know, saying, you know, I have the script, would you be interested? Please come to my workshop, please, you know, um more so than we can actually handle. And I have a feeling that most other producers and most nonprofit theaters experience the exact same thing. So operating, knowing that there is that mismatch, I'd say, you know, probably our biggest regret, you know, is that we can't get to everybody and everything like we would in a perfect world.

SPEAKER_04 40:20

Right.

SPEAKER_01 40:21

Um but then it really comes down to, you know, in terms of then choosing a project, um choosing one that really does resonate for you that you can be passionate about. Because as everyone says, if if you're following your passion, does it really feel like work? Uh and that is so important uh because one of, you know, we really follow three North Stars uh when it comes to um how we think about producing theater. We think about artistic success, we think about financial success, but we also think about fun. And we we really want to have all of the projects accomplish all three of those goals.

SPEAKER_00 41:17

And of course, you know, underlying all of that is the fact that every producer has a certain limitation or bandwidth. Um, you only have so many resources. And, you know, if you maybe we'll talk about this in a few moments, but we all know how difficult the fundraising landscape is, whether you're a commercial producer, a nonprofit, regional, etc. Um, and there's just so many resources to go around to sort of support the stories and the authors that you ultimately decide to work with. Um it's it's it's frustrating, I mean, for both, because there's so many great stories out there that that should be told, but how long will it take for a producer to get to them and and give it its its its its go, its chance?

SPEAKER_01 42:06

Um and then as you're working with the team, uh it gets back to the empathy and listening piece that we talked about. Um learning from each other, but also you know, working with people and yourselves included, who are not overly precious about you know their you know, their thoughts coming into the room. And then so that there can be real genuine sharing of ideas and learning and aha moments, knowing that everybody is on the same page because we want to optimize the effect that the show is going to have on the audience in this production, whether it be at a nonprofit theater, whether it be in on a commercial production track. I think that there are a lot of, there's no one right way. There are a lot of different ways to do that. Um, and because part of that, because everybody is different, so you have to meet people where they are in the room. But if everybody understands the goal and if they're good people, um, and they all are willing to share in the vision of how to move something forward, uh I think that you know that room of people can accomplish great things.

SPEAKER_03 43:35

Yeah, that's cool. Um, so it sounds like there's no formula for deciding it's a it's you have to find the fun. So um can can I ask a lightning round of questions? And and but you both can answer these separately. Um you mentioned fun, which is the funnest show each of you ever felt. You produced and also then what's the one you're most proud of if it's different than the funnest?

SPEAKER_00 44:09

Uh in recent memory, I would say our involvement with the revival of Little Shop of Horrors for fun, and of course Dracula being more intimately involved as producers, lead producers of that show. And I'm very excited about the potential for fun with some of our upcoming projects, ones we're about to continue developing uh in the next year or two.

SPEAKER_01 44:35

And you know, I would say Dracula has been one of the ones that I'm most proud of as well for what we've done in bringing that along. Um but I really do have to go back to I had so much fun with the revival of pageant. Um, and going to that show, knowing that it was different every time. Yes, there was a script, but then there was audience interaction and different endings, um, and a crazy cast, and it was, but also because you know, I was so fresh and brand new, you know, in that room and going back to see it. Um and there being a I think one of the other things that we really enjoy in in any of these is we want, you know, especially the actors and the crew to feel supported so that you know when they see us coming back again and again and again, we know they know that we haven't abandoned them, we haven't moved on to the next project. You know, we're with them till the end.

SPEAKER_00 45:48

When we when we refer to building a family, and each family is different for each show that we work on, um, we don't use that term in terms of just lip service. We really do want to make sure everybody is listened to, taken care of. Um, if there are limitations to our budget, financial issues, we still try to do our best. For example, for Dracula in New York, it's a very physical show. And all five of our actors were of various ages and abilities, but they all pushed through and did a fantastic job for us. Um, one thing that we we we felt was probably necessary given how physical the show was, was to have a physical therapist on hand to help them out when they needed it at least a few times every month. And they really appreciated that because otherwise, I think some of the older actors might have felt um ignored and by the end of the 18-week run, extremely sore from everything they went through on stage.

SPEAKER_03 46:50

So yeah, I've heard uh people uh in Broadway musicals say, you know, we're we're just Major League athletes just as much as football, basketball, baseball. Um, you know, your average raquette has more stamina than three people put together. Um, but it's really remarkable that you discern that in non-musical cast, that you know, the physical challenges of putting a theater out across you know 500 or a thousand seats. It's it's not nothing for the actor's body and voice. So um yeah, and hopefully more um more producers will see the physical challenge and make those affordances of therapists available. Um especially because physical comedy generally is very buzzy and word of mouth and and can can be that differentiator from um streaming media entertainment that you that you you can only get live. So kudos for that. Um so you you referred to a few projects, and I don't we don't need any um secret or or confidential information. I know we can send people to your website about what's upcoming, drewandane.com. Is that your website?

SPEAKER_04 48:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 48:15

Yeah. Um, but anything you want to talk about? Next project, bucket list uh in the far future. Uh what what does the future hold for drewandane.com?

SPEAKER_01 48:27

So we are developing you know two musicals at this time. Uh, one is Mary and Max by Bobby Cronin and Crystal Skillman, which is an absolutely beautiful musical about the power of connection in a disconnected world based on the 2011 Australian claymation film. Um, the story takes place in the Lower East Side of Manhattan and in the outskirts of Melbourne, Australia. Uh, and it is just an absolutely a funny and touching story, um, and also a bit crazy.

SPEAKER_00 49:07

Um Adam Elliott, the Australian who created and directed the original film, um, we have since met in New York during a press junket for another of his animated films last year. And he is fully on board with what um Bobby and Crystal have done with his original concept and created this wonderful um colorful um stage musical, which we're very excited uh to continue developing, um, probably in the UK in the coming year, if everything aligns. We'll see. Um, but um, yeah, we're very excited about that.

SPEAKER_01 49:45

And then the other project is the musical adaptation of the movie Mr. Holland's Opus, um, which has been uh written by B.D. Wong and Wayne Barker. Uh and it's a wonderful adaptation of the beloved movie. It's one of those movies that everybody who has seen it absolutely loves the movie, but it doesn't get a lot of play on those screens we were talking about before. For I have no idea what reason. Uh and but it's uh it's very needed at this point in time, with an you know, its emphasis on the importance of teachers, the importance of arts in the schools, of arts education, of funding for the arts, of funding for schools, of mentorship. Uh and it was uh originally done uh in development at the Agungha Playhouse in 2022. Um and we it's taken a long time to negotiate the stage rights from the movie studio, but we actually just finished that um a couple of months ago and announced that we're leading it forward. And we're we're thrilled to be doing that.

SPEAKER_03 51:07

Well, congratulations. I uh that's yeah, generational. That that movie made a big generational impact. And I'm I'm really thrilled you two are going to bring it a newer and younger audience.

SPEAKER_00 51:20

Um given given the scale of the show and the and the multiple themes within it, um, it will be to date our our biggest show in terms of uh creative and financial lift, if you will. But we're we're game for it. We we have a great family that we're building around it, and uh we can't wait to continue that development.

SPEAKER_03 51:41

Yeah. At what point do you know what theater something like that will be in? Is that a year from now, once the script is kind of done, or or when do you engage the theater in a in your work?

SPEAKER_01 51:56

Well, I mean, so we you know, part of our job for all of our shows is outreach to theaters. Um and as you know, the artistic director and staffs of these theaters, you know, have the discretion of what they want to bring in or not. Uh, and so they, you know, a lot of them have their own ideas of what they want to bring in and what they what they want to program for their audience. Uh so it just takes time and a lot of discussions uh for that. You know, we are very hopeful that you know a you know, one of the regional nonprofit producing theaters is actually going to want to pick this up and run with it, given that it is a recognizable title that has its own built-in fan base.

SPEAKER_03 52:54

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Especially um those in regional theaters probably still have a very healthy Gen X uh and and boomer audience who who that name, uh that show title will mean something to. Um that's just so fantastic that you what you described, two projects, the the claymation Australian thing, and then the well-known movie, uh you know, it just shows the breadth of where your antennas are out in the culture looking for what's the next thing. And you and it's not it sounds like you never you never know. You just have to be alert to all of all of everything and and and then have a discernment to to to take the leap and take the risk for different projects.

SPEAKER_00 53:48

Right. And and as we said previously, you know, the the choice of projects that we uh want to be involved with um is partly due to how it resonates, the story resonates with us personally. Um and then, you know, obviously beyond that, would it be a commercial success at some point? Uh how much more development does it need to make that commercial leap? Um and again, because of bandwidth, we have to be somewhat selective about the projects we want to be involved with. And with so many coming our way uh every month, um, it's very difficult sometimes because we we can see the quality and the and the meaning of some of these shows, especially if they're timely in this day and age. Um, but a lot of times we have to turn them away or you know, maybe um recommend them to another producer because we just don't have that.

SPEAKER_03 54:38

Thank you very much, Dane Levins and Drew Desky of uh drewandane.com um for sharing your background with us and and your enthusiasm. May you have fantastic success with these upcoming projects. Thank you so much, Rob.

SPEAKER_01 54:55

Thank you so much. We're always delighted to speak with you. So anytime.

SPEAKER_03 54:59

Yeah, thank you.