Living Legends: Rob interviews Theatre Educator/Producer Paula Baksa Stein

Paula Baksa Stein shares with us her life in theatre, from being choreographed in Junior high by fellow legend David Chavez (before his Juliet Prowse phase), to her co-starring friendship with Donna Reed's leading man Carl Betz, her 30 years as a high school theatre teacher in Albuquerque, a 50 year involvement with Albuquerque Little Theatre, and the bucket list of shows she's still aspiring to direct. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Today's episode is sponsored by Alternate Stages New Riders Series. Subscribers and supporters of Alternate Stages Podcast can receive the New Riders Series episodes for free in their feed. Featured Piece of New Writing. This week, Chapter 1 of Refuge, The Shylock Origin Story by Rob Armstrong Martin. With um I love to start with Origin Stories, um, which is, you know, comes from the world of superheroes. Were you bitten by a radioactive spider to get your love of theater, Paula? Or is it something you were taught early on? This week, we air my interview with Paula Baxiste. Paula was a career educator of theater in the Albuquerque Public Schools at the high school level, and upon retiring, Paula served on the board of the Albuquerque Little Theater, and more importantly, as its president for over 10 years, including during the COVID-19 pandemic. Full disclosure, Paula was board president who hired me at Albuquerque Little Theater as the executive director in 2024, and I've known Paula since 1979 when she was briefly my theater teacher at El Dorado High School. Hope you enjoy this interview with theater legend Paula Faxistin.

SPEAKER_02 1:31

For my when I left Manzano, I did a big alumni show. And at the end, I after the three one acts were over with all my different alumni, I went out and I did I did the last the last soliloquy there, the last model.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

I bet that was devastating for people.

SPEAKER_02 1:50

I could hardly get through it. I was so emotional.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

Yeah. Well, and then and then there's the Midsummer one, If We Shadows Have Offended.

SPEAKER_02 1:59

Have offended. Think but this and all is mended. Yes, we use that one a bit too.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

Do you know? Well, you you were probably there when George directed Midsummer at El Dorado. Um I was I Snout the the tinker who played the wall, and Ryle Adamson was a phenomenal puck. I mean, he was just phenomenal. Funny. Yes. Um and I think Brent Holton, I don't remember who all else. Uh oh, um who was the gal that ended up on Broadway from El Dorado? Uh she was hella Hermia. Um I don't remember. Is it Jennifer something? Uh there was a there was a triple threat girl from El Dorado who ended up in on Broadway tours. But yeah, so anyway, this is not about them. This is about you. This this podcast is about you.

SPEAKER_02 3:00

Uh but I'm just flattered, but thank you. I don't know what you think I have to offer, but I'll give you what I got.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Well, my view of this podcast is we look at what things make theater practice sustainable, live theater practice sustained. Um, and I don't just mean things like recycling and what sustainability means for the environment, but how do we keep people doing theater? Um, and keep them from switching to an all streaming media, Netflix, um, on-demand lifestyle, where we do lose patrons. Um, and we're trying to reverse that flow. And so all of the voices and the lifelong commitments people have made to sustaining live theater, such as you, uh, yourself included, and and more than most, you've made a superhuman commitment to theater, both professionally and um and and in your public service. And and so I want to dig deep into uh, if you'll allow me, into your origin story, what what lit the fire for you as a as a lover and practitioner of theater, and what lessons you've learned along the way. And then when you you know spent the last few years trying to sustain uh um a um historic institution, which is a building but also a producing organization, you know what that has meant, what what lessons you've learned and what's been meaningful to you. So any and all of those um you can start with. Um I love to start with origin stories, um, which is you know, comes from the world of superheroes. Were you bitten by a radioactive spider to get your love of theater, Paula? Or was it something you were taught early on?

SPEAKER_02 4:53

I started in literally in the eighth grade with doing a musical. Um, Carol Wade, who was the choir teacher at Jackson Junior High School, decided that we as a choir were going to do West Side Story. And we did, and I was one of the no-name jet girls, didn't have any lines, just danced. And we had rehearsals for that for probably six months. And we rehearsed our dance, for instance, every Saturday. We had a choreographer by the name of David Chavez, who was unknown at the time, but then went on to Vegas and became Juliet Prouse's choreographer and several other stars who did lots and lots of Vegas. So we had an exquisite teacher. And I remember doing this show and thinking, you know, I think I could do this for a while. And then moved on to high school, and that was when I first encountered Albuquerque Little Theater. I didn't know Albuquerque Little Theater, I only knew my middle school, my high school. And so um, a friend of mine's mom was doing a show. I think it was called The Best Man. It was a political show, and she needed somebody to help her do quick change costumes. So I went down there. And these were people who treated me like I was a grown-up. Well, there's nothing better for a 14-year-old or 15-year-old than to be treated like you're a grown-up. And they talked to me like I was a grown-up and they reacted to me like I was a grown-up. And I just felt really, really important. And I also just loved the magic. I'm standing backstage in the dark, listening to people laugh and sigh and hearing words spoken that I had not imagined people would say. And I just kept going back to little theater. And I worked down there all throughout my high school years. I worked a little bit at my high school theater, but mostly I felt much more important at little theater, at Albuquerque Little Theater. So I went away, went to college, got my degree, came back, and the first thing I did was go audition for a show. And at that time, Bernie Thomas was the director. Now, Bernie Thomas learned directly from Catherine Kennedy O'Connor, who started the theater in 1930. He was one of her proteges. And so I felt very fortunate to be working with him. I did a very silly, silly show called Spofford. No one would ever know Spofford. It's it's one of those dinner theater kind of shows. Um he was very good at that. That was the style of Albuquerque Little Theater at that time, was doing dinner theater or bedroom, you know, British bedroom farce, that kind of an idea. And there again, I got to work with people that I had only seen on stage, and now I was getting to work with them. At that time, we were bringing in um guest artists. And um, I got to do a wonderful show um called The Gazebo, and the guest star was Karl Betts. And Carl Betz was a TV star. He did um Judd for the Defense, was his his kind of weekly show. It was on for two or three seasons, and I think he did another one, but I don't remember what that was. And his wife, who came with him, she was the Russian woman who was on Hogan's Heroes. She was the Russian woman who always wanted to get together with Hulgan. I love your Hogan dawlings, she would say. And so she was there. So I got to meet both of these people whom I then carried on a corresponding friendship with for many, many years. Christmas cards and birthday cards, and when they'd come through town, they'd call that sort of thing. And I learned so much from this gentleman who was such a giving artist because he would talk to me about what I would do in the role I was in with him. I was a I had a little, I was his housekeeper in this play. So I didn't have a lot, but I I learned so much just being around all of these people who were with Albuquerque Little Theater. And the community support was amazing.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

We did after college, you did you did the gazebo?

SPEAKER_02 9:27

Yeah, it was after college, yeah. And so um, I'm the first couple of years out of college, I didn't have a teaching degree trying, or I didn't have a teaching job. Um, because while there were 20 English teachers at a high school, there's one theater teacher. And so to get you kind of had to wait for somebody to die to get the job almost because nobody left. These people who had been in these theater club um teachers' positions were just ongoing spot stars, they just were always there, yeah. So they were amazing, and it was just a fabulous way for me to get lots of extreme experience because I was working backstage, on stage, handing out programs, whatever was needed, I was down there doing it. And then once I got my teaching job, that cut it back because then I had my own theater that I needed to run. And as you know, from El Dorado, we were doing five and six shows a year. And then when I moved from El Dorado to Rio Grande and Manzano, I was doing usually five mainstain productions a year, um, two full children's seasons where I would invite uh elementary school kids to come in and see shows, which is where I built my classes from, because they come back later and say, When I was in the third grade, I got to come and see, you know, James and the Giant Peach, and I want to come do that kind of an idea. So I built from them and just loved doing all of that. Once I retired, it was like, now what do I do? Because I used to tell kids I can't go a whole day without theater in my life. So as soon as I'd retired, um, I got a phone call from Henry Avery saying, uh, we were given your name as someone who might like to be on the board. And the rest, as they say, is history.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

That's amazing. Um I I I don't think I caught. Did you say you had gone away to college or yes?

SPEAKER_02 11:36

I went to Eastern New Mexico University. So I was here, but not here. I was in Portalis.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:42

Um, and again had, you know, one because it was a small department from a freshman, I got to start doing things. And I was really into tech. I was lighting and sound, I did a lot of sound design and sound effects back in the olden days when we used to put it on real-to-reel tape, and then you had to cut the tape and splice it together so that the sound effects were in the right order.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

Yeah, but back when tech was done with no computers, you needed to actually have uh some dexterity with your hands for most tech.

SPEAKER_02 12:17

I spent I spent a lot of afternoons in at the local radio station listening to Sound Effects Records, trying to find the right doorbell or the right crowd sign sound, or the right whatever it was I was looking for for the sound for that particular show.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

Um that's that's wonderful. So um you'd had a little acting experience before going to Portalis, and you were more of a techie orientation in Portalis, or were you kind of all things?

SPEAKER_02 12:51

I I of course did roles whenever I thought I was right to do the role and would audition and get casts, that sort of thing. Um uh I did some uh I went one summer and we did summer stock at Eastern and I got a couple of roles there. But I really I knew that when I became a teacher, and I already knew that that's exactly what I wanted to do. Um, I was gonna need to know how to do everything because I was gonna have to teach kids how to do everything. And so I knew I needed to know how to focus a light, how to take that light apart and replace the bulb and how to make sound effects and how to come up with, you know, how do I make a prop, how do I make a costume? Um, I was always a very good seamstress, and I earned my uh room and board for the last three years of my college life being the costumer for the theater department because I could I could sew. And so I just got in there and you know, tore things apart and put things back together and created things and and did a lot of costuming work. So I knew that when I came out of there, I could be a teacher, and that was my goal was to be a theater teacher because I said I always said it was the best job ever that you got paid to play.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

Well, I mean, it's remarkable foresight that you knew you wanted to teach and that you were using college to scoop up the teaching skills. That that's really, I think, remarkable. I guess my generation was the undecided. We spent so much time in college changing majors, and I thought everybody used college as a waiting roomslash finishing school, but it's really remarkable that you had a teaching, a calling, really, that young, and were able to early enough that your college was able to be uh you know pointed in service of that. I I I'm very I'm very impressed by that. What what made you my dad was a teacher?

SPEAKER_02 14:58

My dad was a teacher, and so I had grown up around somebody how it in and my dad went was a football coach, he was a track coach, he was a history teacher, he was a high school principal. So I saw lots of that kind of thing and always thought that that was just the way, and I also knew in my heart of hearts, I was no Merrill Street. Let's just be real. And I didn't want to spend my life waiting tables for one or two roles, I wanted to do theater and do lots of theater. And I thought, what's what's better than sharing my love with with kids? And I just I knew that's where I wanted to go.

SPEAKER_00 15:40

Yeah, that's amazing. So you didn't really have any involvement with Albuquerque Little when she were running your own theater in the high school system. Did you ever come back and do a role from time to time before you got back on or got onto the board, or were you just sort of uh pulled back for a grand reunion by Henry?

SPEAKER_02 16:02

I could come and watch shows, but I had not actually done any shows. Um, again, I was, you know, from August to May, I was producing. And at the end of May, I just slipped into a coma almost, going, I need to just rest up before I start this all over again in August. And so I would see shows and um they would call occasionally, somebody from little theater would call and say, you know, we're doing this show. Do you want to come audition? The director had thought you would be good for the role. And I would just say, I just can't. I can't give up every evening for a rehearsal when I'm doing, and I mean I rehearsed after school. I didn't rehearse at night. Um, but I just I just couldn't I couldn't diverge my talents or couldn't diverge my time. I needed, I needed to focus on on my school work. And I had because I wanted to keep doing theater, I never repeated a show in 25 years. So actually 30 years. I ended up teaching for 30 years. And I I say that with a little tiny asterisk because I did repeat Lily the Felon's Daughter, which was the first faculty show I ever knew about when we did it at El Dorado. And then when I went to Rio Grande, because I was again sort of a baby teacher that I'd only been teaching for three years when I left El Dorado, and I thought, okay, I can do a faculty show, but I'm gonna do Lily again. And then sure enough, when I went to Manzano, I thought, I got a winner here, I'm gonna do that again as a faculty show and did it then. But those that's the only show I ever repeated in my 30 years.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

Wow. I mean, it's pretty impressive. I agree with you. I think it's so much more interesting to have a new frontier every time. Um, and and and maybe it doesn't count that Lily repeating because it was a different program, a different show. I mean, a different school. So um tell me more about these faculty shows because I can remember seeing one. I think it was called Ramshackle Inn. And I and I want to say it was at El Dorado in the very beginning of the year. Probably the teachers had rehearsed over the summer. Were you in that? It was like seven or nine, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

I was not. Um, the faculty shows were George Nason's idea. His way to get the faculty to support the theater. If they he figured if they knew how hard it was and how much work went into it, they'd be much more willing to support it. And um, so that was his sort of side hustle, as it were, was to get the faculty involved and make them support the department rather than just the football team, the basketball team, you know, kind of the way high school is, it's the sports teams. Sure. So um I took that and stole the idea just right out from under him and did faculty shows. And in when I was at Manzano, after the first few, maybe five out of 25 years, I started making them a student faculty show. Because then my students got to see teachers in a whole different light. And the faculty got to see students in a whole different light. And we had faculty members who became great friends with students, and vice versa. And faculty members would would just support like crazy. And, you know, they were, I had math classes giving extra credit to go to see the plays because they had been in the play and they knew how hard they worked and what went on. We also turned it into a fundraiser for scholarships, and we gave scholarships to students who went were going on to college and thought they might want to pursue theater. And so we would end up that faculty show was a fundraiser, and we would take the money earned at that show, and then at the end of the year, we would give out, you know, three $250 scholarships or whatever it was that we had earned, and and that sort of thing. So that kids had a boost to get started for college if they were planning to pursue.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

Yeah. Um, I think most people know, or maybe not, you and I met at El Dorado. Uh and you were, I guess, fairly new there. What years were you at El Dorado versus?

SPEAKER_02 20:31

I started, um, I started teaching in 78 and stayed there until the spring of 1980.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 20:40

So had I been a year 81, sorry, that should have been 81.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

That's okay entirely, but um I still remember that you cast me. Well, you cast me in two very important firsts. One was my first role in front of an audience on a state. Now, I did a lot of those sort of plays in your classroom, um, right. That was not really a theater, but intro to theater at El Dorado, where there were curtains and there were the stage was higher and there were dressing rooms. My first play was a reader's theater called I believe Albion's Dream. And it was sort of based around um the William Blake poem Um The Tiger. Tiger Tiger Burning Bright was a sort of a chorus in the play. And I had a non-speaking part playing a triangle, or I was the percussionist. And so I got to kind of watch the audience a lot. And and I really learned, thanks to your casting me in a non speaking role, how to track the audience during a show and see what you know, what what are they liking, what are they not liking. So that was a big deal for me, and it made me very comfortable standing up there because I saw them as individuals. Than not a sea of judgmental faces. And then not too much longer, I think it might have been my sophomore year. You did the matchmaker, Greta Stockybrand, who I idolized. She rode my school bus and she knew my sister, played Dolly Levi, and I was some very forgettable role. Oh, I was Ambrose Kemper, which is for people who know the Hello Dolly movie, was Tommy Toon. Although I didn't have those dancing and singing parts in the non-musical version. And boy, did we cut up. We were do you probably weren't aware of this as a director. Uh people would serve dinner in the play with these prop plates, and people would write messages on the plates in makeup pencil to try to make the leads cut up. And a lot of bad behavior went on at El Dorado. I'm sure you were unaware of all of it, right?

SPEAKER_02 22:59

Everywhere, every school. I had faculty members who would try to crack up other faculty members in the faculty play. Um, in one in Lily the Felon's daughter at Manzano, the first time I did it, um the her brooch gets stolen, and the hero goes to go get the brooch from the villain. And he comes back and he says, Here, I found your brooch. And he's got a button that says, Show me your tits.

SPEAKER_01 23:28

And he shows it to the actress.

SPEAKER_00 23:35

Oh, well, I guess it's probably an age-old tradition going back to the Greeks or to try to cut up your actor, your fellow actors. Yeah. Um, and it's half the function hazing we all have to pass through. Um, so uh did you stay at Manzano then the I think you said 1980, and then the whole career was the rest of your career was at Manzano?

SPEAKER_02 23:59

From El Dorado, I went to Rio Grande.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 24:03

And I was at Rio Grande for two years. Um, and then I really wasn't anticipating moving. And Howard Minch, who had been the drama teacher for a number of years at Manzano, called me and said that he was getting ready to retire. And was I interested in moving to Manzano? And because I had graduated from Manzano, it was kind of like going back home again. Um, I said yes. And he said, Okay, let me know when you've put in your transfer and I'll put in my retirement. And he did. And I got called to go to Manzano for an interview. And the vice principal or the well, the vice principal up there I had known, he had moved with me from El Dorado. I'd known him at El Dorado. He had moved to Rio Grande when I was there, and then he moved to Manzano and was already up there. And he and the principal interviewed me for, I am not exaggerating, seven minutes. And I thought, oh my God. And they said, Thank you very much. We'll be in contact. And I thought, oh yeah, right, a cold day later. You're never going to call me. You don't want me, but you're interviewing me because you I put in an application and you feel you have to. So I went away very depressed and came home and told my husband, Well, I'm not going to Manzano. It was seven minutes. Next day I get a call from the vice principal saying, Would you like the job at Manzano? Well, I was stunned.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

The next day. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 25:31

The next day. And I said, Uh, yep. Could I ask a question, please? What? Why? I said, you interviewed me for seven minutes. I said, the first question you asked me was, What rules would I set up for the theater? And I handed you a sheet of the rules that I had set up in the theater. You know, don't put your feet on the seat, don't take food and drink in it. You know, all of those kinds of things. And he said, Oh, we knew we were hiring you before we interviewed you, but we had to interview you anyway, because to be fair, we had to say we had interviewed all the candidates. I went, Oh, okay, thank you. He said, Howard Minch just went on and on about you and wanted you up here to take on the program. And because I've seen you work at two other schools, he said, we knew you were the right person for this job. And I was at Manzano for 25 years.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

Wow. That's amazing. Um, what was that vice principal's name? I mean, I I probably encountered.

SPEAKER_02 26:29

Um, oh, let me think for a moment. Uh Bill Bill, no, not Bill Reed. Bill Reed was principal. Um, I don't know, it'll come to me later, but right now I can't think.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

Um, I'll I'll probably go home and look it up in the older.

SPEAKER_02 26:47

Francis Coffee.

SPEAKER_00 26:48

There you go. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:50

Francis Coffee.

SPEAKER_00 26:52

Yeah, yeah. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 26:54

It was about six foot five.

SPEAKER_00 26:56

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:58

Enormously tall.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

So you were at Manzano in 82?

SPEAKER_02 27:04

Uh, I think I started 80, let's see, 81, 82, 82, 83. I think I started the fall of 83.

SPEAKER_00 27:12

Okay. I remember um I guess it was my junior and senior year. I got involved in the speech and debate team had drama events like duo drama and maybe monologue and stuff. And we had the finals at Manzano. Um, and I I got to know Manzano really well because of that. Um, but also I had been on the track team at El Dorado, and we would compete at that big um track and field uh stadium. Is it Milney at behind Manzano?

SPEAKER_02 27:46

Um you know there's a big big audit, a big stadium behind there's a huge yeah, and um Milney is the one down kind of by what used to be the old APS um yeah, yeah, yeah. Central office. The one up there, um um Blank City Wilson Stadium. There you go.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

Yeah, there you go. So, and and and I'll tell you, I I think I've told you this before. I when um you were some sort of a sponsor of a dance team at El Dorado Golden Rhythm, the Golden Rhythm. And my next door neighbor, uh Eric Leatherer's sister, Lauren Leatherer, I think was going out for that. And she said, Well, we need boys. You Eric and Rob come. And Eric and I went, and we were both soccer players, and I had you know more than two left feet, and but I liked it. And I I came home and I told my dad, I joined the dance team, so I'm gonna have to quit track. Oh no, you're not. And he made me resign from the dance team. But um, I believe Lauren Leathererer, does that name ring a bell?

SPEAKER_02 29:00

That name is very familiar, yes. I don't have a face in front of me that kind of pops up with, but the name is certainly familiar.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

Yeah, I she was a well, the all the leatherers were freckly ginger blonde. I believe she went on to uh work professionally in LA, and I believe I've heard she's now back in Albuquerque as an acting coach. So uh those seeds that you all planted at El Dorado really, really bore fruit in a lot of us. Um it's amazing. Um, anyway, that's great. So um Manzano was when did you retire from Manzano? About 2008. 2008, okay. Wow. And then how long between when you were kicking around, retired, and when Henry called you to be on the board? Maybe a month. Oh the longest month of your life.

SPEAKER_02 29:56

I um and probably toward probably August, maybe September, probably a little bit longer, but somebody had quit the board as the new fiscal year started.

SPEAKER_01 30:07

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 30:08

And so I they were looking for someone to step in and fill a term, and that's what I did.

SPEAKER_00 30:14

Uh-huh. And it stuck.

SPEAKER_02 30:17

And it stuck. And that was a very different kind of board. Henry had just taken over as uh sort of the artistic and uh actually not even the artistic director, he was just the executive director. And uh a young lady, Becca, and I cannot remember Becca's last name, Becca was the um artistic director at the time. And uh started in there and just yeah, kept real quiet for a few meetings.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

So was that um I I knew Peter Kierst in in the 90s of the board. Didn't he do about a year?

SPEAKER_02 30:59

He and and Debbie Kirst, both his wife, um, they took over for maybe a year to two years before Henry took over. Henry then joined the board, and then they were leaving. They wanted off, they didn't want to run the theater anymore. Yeah, and so that was when Henry stepped up from the board to the executive director. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:22

Oh, that's right. I remember he him saying he moved here to become a realtor. Yes. He and Darren both, I think, were in real estate.

SPEAKER_02 31:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:33

Um, funny. So um now, if you could I maybe you have a list, but can you estimate the number of plays you've been in A in your life, B at ALT?

SPEAKER_02 31:48

Ooh, in my life, probably two dozen.

SPEAKER_00 31:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 31:56

At ALT, oh, one, two, three, four, five, maybe five or six, where I've actually had roles. I certainly worked on a lot of shows where I was backstage, uh-huh, um, did costumes, did props, did whatever I was asked to do, um, especially once I had first gotten out of college, because I didn't have, you know, I had a little, you know, eight to five kind of job that didn't require any effort much in terms of intellectual stimulation. Um, but it paid my paid my rent. So yeah, I could go down there and spend the evening working props or helping do costume changes or whatever. But um I did several, like I said, I did I did two shows that I remember clearly with um with Bernie Thomas, and then Michael Myers took over. And I did at least one show, maybe two with Michael. Maybe I've done more than I think. And then um another lady who absolutely her name escapes me. I can see her face. Um, she directed a show called See How They Run. And that was one of those wonderful shows. I was teaching at El Dorado at that point, because I remember opening night um of the show. And I was in this, I played a snarky little church lady who was had her nose in everybody's business. And I came out on stage for two or three minutes before anybody said anything. And I'm picking up and looking at underneath the vase to see what the marking is and checking to see what books are on the shelf, you know, that kind of snooping thing. And I happened to look out at the audience, you know, out of the corner of my eye, not meaning to look, the entire front row is my stagecraft class from El Dorado. They've all bought tickets for the opening night. And when the gentleman came out who played the minister, I have the first line. I look at him with a look of abject terror on my face because I don't even know my own name at that moment. Because I'm thinking, oh my God, they're all there watching me.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 34:16

And he looked at me for a minute and he kind of just waited. And he finally looked at me and he said, I bet you're here about the church flowers. And I said, Yes, I am, and then went right into my line. But it absolutely threw me for a loop. I did, I couldn't have told you what my first line was at all when I realized out of the corner of my eye that they were all there.

SPEAKER_00 34:37

That's so great. Um, so well, and I know you're you really, I think you see yourself more as a director. I bet you've probably doing the math, I'm guessing you directed about 125 shows at Manzano alone, or maybe maybe more.

SPEAKER_02 34:53

Probably. That's I I tallied up at one point that I had done just over 200 shows in my career of teaching.

SPEAKER_00 35:00

Oh wow, that's impressive. Uh, and so you made a list, right?

SPEAKER_02 35:05

I kept programs. I have a great big plastic tub with programs because it had kids' names in it, so I could remember.

SPEAKER_00 35:14

Oh, how wonderful. How wonderful. That you know, that's what I I love about um our our archives here is that thank goodness for programs, thank goodness for news clippings, but um, you know, they just don't last forever, and we need to make them immortal through some digital process, but so time consuming to do that, yeah. Um, and and yet that's it's such rich history, like just looking at a program can trigger things you haven't thought about in years, and I and I think that's just an amazing part of how we store our memories. Um, so how many shows have you ever directed at ALT? Quite a few, I'm guessing.

SPEAKER_02 36:00

Um, yeah, we used to do a children's uh back in 2008, 2009, 2010. We were doing a children's or a family series. And I directed a show every year, sometimes two, in the family series. I directed Little Women, which was charming. I directed um Sleepy Hollow. Um one, I don't remember the exact title, but it was like the trial of the big bad wolf, I think, something like that, kind of an idea. And so we we used to do a lot of those kinds of shows. Um, we stopped doing them because we we realized we were spending as much on them as we were on a major production, but we were only charging, you know, $10 a ticket or $5 a ticket for a kid. And we were kind of losing money on them. So we then we just sort of moved to try and include at least one show that was absolutely family-oriented in our season so that we could be sure to bring those kids back in. And that's why I'm very excited about moving forward with doing these matinees that we're planning for this next season, because I think that's that's such an important part is bringing these students in, letting them see theater. They are so enamored of this theater because we are an institution. And when they come down there, there's just there's a history there that they don't have in in their own school, even though Abu Kriqai has been around forever and Ronzado's been around forever. I mean, all of these schools have been here, but there's something about a theater that's been here since 1930 that makes it just so interesting for them. I think there's a real sense of of just learning that history and becoming aware of where what they're doing comes from, where it's based.

SPEAKER_00 37:51

Yeah. Uh would you say the most important thing we make at ALT is new audiences?

SPEAKER_02 37:58

I would say that's one of the top two things. Um, I would say the the the second thing would just be the experience of live theater. There is nothing like it.

SPEAKER_01 38:10

Right.

SPEAKER_02 38:10

You can't get it in a movie theater, you can't get it on TV, you have to be there to laugh and cry and sigh with other people sitting next to you is just a very unique experience.

SPEAKER_00 38:26

Yeah. Well, and um, it's uh it's my understanding theater education in the school system hangs on by a thread every year. What's your sense of how how under threat is academic theater in the public schools? Um both from funding and you know, the testing priorities and all these other things? What have you heard war stories from people still in the system?

SPEAKER_02 38:55

Actually, over the last couple of years, I would say things are better. APS several years back made a real commitment monetarily and all to do the arts, whether it was band or chorus or drama or whatever. Um, and I think, I hope I'm not misspeaking, but I think as of right now, there is at least a drama class offered at every middle school in this city. And that was never true before. Um, you'd be lucky to have two or three middle schools that had a drama class. Now, they don't necessarily have six classes a day. They may only have one, but maybe that one spawns two in another year, that kind of thing. That the the um George Nason Drama Showcase Festival, which, as you know, is our big drama festival in the city, and we've always had it as a combination middle school, high school festival. It has now gotten so big because of all of the middle schools having theater programs, that next year there's gonna be two festivals. There will be a middle school festival, there will be a high school festival, which I think is incredibly exciting. I mean, these this is just not where we ever thought we were gonna be. And a lot of it, I think, has to be just reminding people oh, I went to that show. Oh, I love that show.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:26

You know, and then there's a what's the next show? I need to find out what that is and go see it, you know. I I think it's just a matter of pulling it sort of into our focus because we're so focused on our lives and trying to, you know, get the grocery store and get the laundry done and get the kids off to school and do all of the things that our lives entail. Going to the theater is like an extra something to think about, and you don't. And I think if we just remind people, the the memory is great. Yeah, you know, you go, Oh my gosh, we had so much fun there. I went with my two friends, or I went with my brother, or whatever. And it's there.

SPEAKER_00 41:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:07

And I think part of it we we teach the kids that, and then there's that, I want to get up there and do that. I want to be the one that they're clapping for.

SPEAKER_00 41:16

Yeah, yeah. Um somebody once recently told me there's a lot of writing about um the the third space in in society. The third space is not your office and not your home. Or, or in the case of a kid or a teacher, not your school and not your home. Third spaces are places we congregate. They may be a church, they may be a theater, they may be um the baseball game, the fairgrounds, whatever. But the conquest of the internet, uh, the internet conquering everything and pulling everything into digital is threatening third spaces and ALT and all theaters are are proudly third spaces where maybe power dynamics and hierarchy don't matter because you may be playing a role that's different from who you are in real life, and everybody can relax. All the audience members are equal. Now, there's a section of the podcast Lightning Round with you, if you're up for it. Lightning round is I'm gonna ask you without a whole lot of thought to answer some um questions about you know your your uh preferences. The first is most favorite play you ever directed.

SPEAKER_02 42:42

Oh, uh, you know, I I think I'd have to say Lily the Felon's daughter because I got to see it in so many different versions. Yeah, and every time thinking back about what the last one was or whatever, that one was just I just always so looked forward to it, and I still have wonderful memories of it.

SPEAKER_00 42:59

That's wonderful. I'll have to read that. Now, most favorite play you were ever in or crew of, but not the director.

SPEAKER_02 43:08

Our snick and old lace. Ah, I have played both Abby and Martha. I did it as a faculty play in which I was in it at Manzano, and I got to play Abby, and then I played it here with Martha under uh Henry's direction.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

Just a couple years ago, right? Not too long ago.

SPEAKER_01 43:29

Um, 2020, maybe 21.

SPEAKER_00 43:35

Okay. Something. It it really is what I call a well-made play because it all hangs together.

SPEAKER_02 43:42

It does.

SPEAKER_00 43:43

Yeah. Okay, and least favorite directing experience ever, or maybe most learning lesson ever of directing.

SPEAKER_02 43:54

Uh I did a play. Let's see if I can come up with the title. It was the most Movie, it was big, it was originally the play, but the movie Disney did the movie called The Trouble with Angels.

SPEAKER_01 44:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 44:08

Um, and it's about a girls' school. And so I had 30 teenage girls on stage, meaner than snot, wouldn't cooperate. At one point in one rehearsal, I got up out of the theater, walked up to the back of the theater, walked out onto the front, sat down on the stairs out in front of the theater, and sobbed. I was so angry, I was so disappointed. It was just a disaster.

SPEAKER_01 44:45

Huh.

SPEAKER_02 44:46

Wow. And went back in, rehearsed, we did the show when that play was over. You know, because kids would say to me, Why can't we do this play again? They they went, they wanted to do this show or this that what they had seen us do. And I said, Because A, it'll never be as good as I remember, or B, it was so awful, I don't ever want to get near it again. That play was one I don't ever want to get near again.

SPEAKER_00 45:14

Yeah, yeah. Wow. Okay. And then I really our last lightning round is bucket list. What show do you feel you you must do still um or or wanna do yourself and or want ALT to do? What's a must-have.

SPEAKER_02 45:39

First thing that comes to mind is The Merchant of Venice.

SPEAKER_00 45:43

Oh, you're long on that.

SPEAKER_02 45:46

I love that play. Me too. And I would love to direct that play. I have always thought I had some ideas to do things kind of differently than I had ever seen them done. The other second one would be Hamlet. No, sorry, I'm sorry. Uh the Scottish play. I've always wanted to do the Scottish play, but instead of old gnarly witches, I want drop dead, gorgeous, victorious secret models. Because I always thought Macbeth is a sexual creature. And to put him with these gorgeous women, no wonder he listens to what they say. I just anytime I've seen and I've seen the Roman Polanski version, I think everybody has seen that one. And just that whole thing with these hideously ugly old ladies. And I thought, Macbeth isn't going to pay the slightest bit of attention to them. They're just yeah, they don't attract, they're not attractive to him. He shouldn't let he won't listen.

SPEAKER_00 46:51

Yeah, that's that's great. Um, anything else you want to uh leave our listeners with? This is probably not our our only podcast with you. This series is gonna be more frequent in the next coming year. But uh, what are parting thoughts you'd like to leave the audience with as we begin the summer of uh of summer theater?

SPEAKER_02 47:13

I'm just so excited that we are stepping up to the plate, as it were. I think so much in the summer, people have all this wonderful leisure time they feel like in the summer. And instead of going someplace where it's hot and sweaty, they can go someplace where it's cool and dark and experience some new people and some new ideas.

SPEAKER_00 47:34

How lovely! I I couldn't have said it better myself. Well, thank you. And I know you have a big summer of a lot of travel and wish you wonderful and safe travels. Come back to us and with stories and maybe even some stories of theater you've seen elsewhere, because um theater is you know what joins the world, one of the things that does. So thank you for spending this time with me, Paula.

SPEAKER_02 48:02

My pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 48:03

Yeah. Well, I'm glad we did it, and thank you. Um thank you for sharing your whole history with us.