Why Growth Feels So Uncomfortable But Is Totally Worth It

Most people crave comfort. But what if it’s the one thing holding you back from everything you want?

In this episode of Growth Drivers, Mike and Rachael Novak break down why comfort is the real enemy of growth—and how it shows up looking like safety, security, and success… while secretly keeping you stuck.

We’re sharing:

— The hidden cost of “playing it safe” (in business, relationships, and life)
 — Why most people never break free from their comfort zone—and how to know if that’s you
— The exact mindset shift we used to sell our dream home and step into something bigger
— How to separate fact from feeling when fear tries to talk you out of your next move
— And why discomfort isn’t a punishment—it’s the path to purpose

If you’ve been feeling restless, stuck, or a little too “fine” lately—this is your wake-up call.

Hit play and get uncomfortable. Growth is calling. 👀

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Transcript

Mike Novak:

[0:33] Welcome back to Growth Drivers. It's Mike and Rachel Novak.

Embracing Growth and Discomfort

Mike Novak:

[0:37] And today we're going to be talking about growth and embracing discomfort. So this is going

to be a really good conversation. Check out thewarrioragent.com for our latest products. We just

put some new stuff up there, some awesome new trainings, coaching programs, awesome,

awesome stuff to go check out, including a 58-module buyer and seller class that's on sale right

now for $297.

Rachael Novak:

[0:59] Bucks yeah we've got my ceo the becoming the ceo modules coming up in the next couple of

weeks and also launched the wartime ceo mastermind so ladies if you're interested in that go to the

warrior agent.com slash ceo and you get some info on that see if we can we already

The Power of Comfort

Rachael Novak:

[1:17] got a couple ladies signed up i'm pretty excited about it so that starts may 7th is the first call.

Mike Novak:

[1:21] There you go ladies all right let's dive in um growth and embrace and discomfort so this this

kind of idea came in my mind when I was having a conversation with an agent a couple days ago.

He was explaining to me where he's at now. And he was kind of selling me on why he wanted to

stay put there. And he used the word comfort. He's like, it's comfortable. And so that word just hit

me so hard. I was like, man, okay, I'm going to come back to that. And I let him talk for like five or

10 more minutes. And then I came back and I said, hey, you brought up the fact that you said a

word that like really hit me and you said that it's comfortable there. And so I just want to like talk

through that word of comfort with you and what is the cost of that comfort?Rachael Novak:

[2:05] Right.

Mike Novak:

[2:05] And we ended up having a really good conversation with it where I challenge us thinking a lot

on like the benefits and the downsides of comfort and also discomfort as well. So we're going to

talk about that. And they also kind of go hand in hand, too. So as far as comfort goes, like, I think

we should start with talking about positives and negatives. And then towards the end of this, we'll

give kind of give people a formula that I use on how to how to actually like take action on shit that

makes you really uncomfortable.

Rachael Novak:

[2:34] So so you're you're kind of saying like comfort in this instance he was almost using and

probably, subconsciously he probably didn't know that he was saying oh i'm really comfortable and

that's as like he thought he thought he was kind of putting it as like a positive thing like i don't know

i'm good like this is a good thing yeah and you're you're making the case then that we need to be

very careful about using comfort or or being comfortable because it's actually a negative thing in

some instances.

Mike Novak:

[3:03] Yeah i was like i mean that that's that's something that he thought was positive and.

Rachael Novak:

[3:07] That's when i.

Mike Novak:

[3:07] Was like hey let's talk about the cost of that comfort.

Rachael Novak:

[3:10] You know and so that's okay and.

Mike Novak:

[3:11] I think there's a conversation that a lot of people would benefit from just because so many

people they want comfort.

Rachael Novak:

[3:18] Well yeah everybody wants to feel comfortable.

Mike Novak:

[3:20] And and so i just want to talk through that today because.

Rachael Novak:

[3:22] If you can.

Mike Novak:

[3:22] Get past that limiting mindset and if you can start embracing discomfort the growth part of it

becomes very dynamic. That's where the hand in hand part comes in. Right.Rachael Novak:

[3:31] Yeah, exactly.

Mike Novak:

[3:31] So like some of the positives in my mind of comfort and the reason that people like it is it's

super predictable, right? Like they know what to expect and people like to know what to expect.

They don't like to have surprises. They don't like change. A lot of the time, like people fucking hate

change. And so they like that predictability. Would you agree with that?

Rachael Novak:

[3:50] A hundred percent. Yeah. I mean, I think people like to know what to expect and it puts people

on edge. The prospect of not knowing exactly what to expect out of a day or a week so.

Mike Novak:

[4:01] Or an outcome yes exactly any situation hey i'm gonna make a big decision and this big

decision makes me unclear what the outcome could be and so that makes me uncomfortable.

Rachael Novak:

[4:11] Yeah because it's unpredictable yep.

Mike Novak:

[4:13] Right for sure and the second part the second positive kind of what you already said it's a no

one right yeah like i know i know what to expect, And I know to expect that feels good, right? That

feels safe, which was the next one I had down. Like, let's talk about safety just a little bit, because

people love feeling safe and secure. And a lot of people don't even recognize that, right? Like, they

value that without actually realizing that's what they value.

Rachael Novak:

[4:38] Well, I mean, even you and I had to have a really tough assessment because, you know,

recently in real time, we sold our compound this week. And it was several months of gearing up for

it, getting it prepared, of course, all that stuff. But prior to actually taking action on that, it was our

safety net, right? That house, that compound was a place that made us feel safe. And that's a

positive in a lot of ways. We had a lot of tumultuousness since 2008 and all the shit that we went

through then. We saved for years, a decade, to be able to build that home and that property. And

so when we finally got it, it was safe. It was ours. We owned it. And we had to challenge our own

thinking about, are we okay removing this little safety net and taking a risk of going somewhere

new? And and that that prospect at first i mean we talked we would talk two years ago and there's

no way we would ever sell it like that was that was not even a conversation not even a

conversation literally not a conversation i mean we wouldn't leverage it we didn't helock it nothing

and so for us it was i mean we've done this we understand how feeling safe is so secure and it

feels so good and it is a positive in a lot of ways but it also was keeping us limited to that being our

sky, our threshold,

Challenging Comfort's LimitsRachael Novak:

[6:05] our barometer of success.

Mike Novak:

[6:07] Well, it kept us from being able to move on to the next opportunity, right? Exactly. And that's

what comfort really does. It keeps you stuck and static, and so you can't actually move on to the

next big thing. And we talk a lot about ascension and expansion, and part of ascension and

expansion is leaving behind your current circumstances, which could include very tangible things

like your dream house, right? And putting your, you know, faith in something bigger than you and

saying, hey, I'm feeling called to do this and it makes me really comfortable to do it, but I'm going to

do it anyways.

Rachael Novak:

[6:42] Yeah, but I mean, in practical application, you know, for this agent that you were talking with,

it was, oh, he's been at the brokerage for a long time. So he knows that it's predictable, it's safe,

it's, he's, he's had positive outcomes and it's working, but what it's limiting him to in his mind and,

and, you know, I mean, economically speaking too, was the potential of more. Right. Right. It was

so safe that he wasn't exploring what more looked or felt like.

Mike Novak:

[7:09] Right. Comfort, you know, it really puts you under this box where there's like these walls and

the ceiling and you can't get outside of it. And people don't realize that. It's kind of a trap, actually.

Rachael Novak:

[7:21] Yeah.

Mike Novak:

[7:21] You know, it's just disguised as comfort.

Rachael Novak:

[7:24] Yeah.

Mike Novak:

[7:24] And so it takes really reflecting to see it for what it really is.

Rachael Novak:

[7:29] Yeah.

Mike Novak:

avoids fear.

[7:29] You know what I mean? And what's possible as well. But the last, like, positive on comfort is it

Rachael Novak:

[7:35] Mm-hmm.

Mike Novak:

[7:35] And fear is, like, a really big deal. I mean, fear is the, you know, it's maybe the most powerfulemotion for people. And it causes them to not do anything oftentimes, right? People will not do

anything and won't take action when they feel fear. I mean, we see it in business all the time, right?

As real estate agents, when the markets change or the stock market crashes for one day, everyone

freaks out and puts their plans on hold.

Rachael Novak:

[8:01] Right?

Mike Novak:

[8:01] So that fear is an emotion, right? And so that emotion then takes over the logic of the person.

Rachael Novak:

[8:08] Yeah, 100%. Especially in comfort. Well, and so on the flip side, some of those are very

positive, of course, but some of them are negative. So what are the negatives here?

Mike Novak:

you're at.

[8:18] Yeah, obviously, like the big negative is the extreme cost that comes with staying where

Rachael Novak:

[8:23] And what do you mean by that? I want you to explain that a little bit.

Mike Novak:

that.

[8:25] Well, again, like if I'm in this container of comfort, right, I can't experience anything outside of

Rachael Novak:

[8:31] Right?

Mike Novak:

[8:32] Because the second I get outside of it, I get scared or I feel fear. And now I stop.

Rachael Novak:

[8:39] Right?

Mike Novak:

[8:40] And I go back to where I'm at, where I'm comfortable. Like people, they will, when they try to

shake off comfort and they try to break free of it, they will often dabble and they will try something

that makes them uncomfortable. They'll kind of dip a toe in and they'll quickly run back to that

safety that they felt before. Right. They're like, oh, no, I don't want that. That's scary. That makes

me just scared shitless. I'm not going to do that. Right. Because fear gets massively triggered for

whatever reason. And that keeps them from then moving forward. Right. Yeah.

Rachael Novak:

[9:08] It's kind of like, if I already use a metaphor, it's kind of similar to somebody being like, You

know, I'm going to go do a cold plunge, and I know it's going to be cold. I know it's going to be cold,

but I'm going to stay in that thing. I'm going to try it out, right? This is one way of doing it. I'm goingto try out this cold plunge, and I know it's going to be cold. They hop in. It's fucking freezing. It's 41

degrees. They're like, oh, I'm out of here. Like, I can't. I don't want to stay in. This is freezing. Like,

their immediate reaction is fear and flight, right? So they are out. Whereas, and that's kind of

comfort. Like, okay, well, I'm going to get back to comfort as soon as possible. I was expecting this

mentally, but how it feels is very different. It's the same kind of thing when it comes into business or

into these bigger decisions. If you don't say, I am going to commit to sitting in that cold plunge tub

for 60 seconds. If you do not say, I am committed to trying this thing out for six months or a year,

giving it an actual shot to see if you can grit or struggle through that initial period. The same thing,

you're going to have a different outcome for somebody going in and saying, mentally, I'm in this for

60 seconds, no matter what it feels like. You're going to go into it completely different as opposed to

dabbling. And the same is true in business, the same is true in big decisions and that kind of thing.

If you're just dabbling, you'll bounce right back into comfort in your safety net. Whereas if you say,

I'm committed to this outcome or I'm committed to this goal, I'm committed to seeing what's going

to happen after X amount of time, you're going to have some different results.

Mike Novak:

[10:33] Yeah. It's got to be looked at from a perspective of a one-way street.

The Cost of Inaction

Rachael Novak:

[10:37] Yeah. Yeah.

Mike Novak:

[10:38] Right. I'm all in on this.

Rachael Novak:

[10:39] There isn't going to.

Mike Novak:

[10:40] I'm going to like start doing it. So, but staying static, it's obviously super expensive because

it limits what you can experience, right? Like it limits what you can experience from a joy

perspective, like with your family, with your balance, with your travel. And then it also is expensive

from the perspective of business opportunities, right? Like you're not going to be able to go explore

other options that are out there, other ventures, other opportunities, because you're unwilling to

explore that and you're scared, right? Yeah, exactly. You're just stuck. And like, you know, we go to

Europe a fair amount like yearly for our travel, right? That's part of our vision for a long time. We do

it. And a lot of people look at those trips to Europe and like, oh, I would never do that. I'm scared to

go outside the United States or, you know, I could never afford to do that. And they don't like even

look at flights to see that it's just as cheap to go to Paris sometimes as it is to go to Florida. Where

are you flying to Italy for cheaper than I could fly to Miami?

Rachael Novak:

[11:32] Right.Mike Novak:

[11:32] Or, or that like any big city in Europe is just as safer and just as dangerous as any big city in

the United States. So just things like that. Yeah. And that becomes like a lens that people look at

everything from. It's not just like travel or business, but it's like how they look at their entire life.

Rachael Novak:

[11:46] Yeah, that's such a good point.

Mike Novak:

[11:47] Right? So, a couple things like that I have just found, you know, growth to like really

experience dynamic growth requires massive amounts of discomfort. And that discomfort is fucking

painful. And most people, they won't even start down that journey. And then the people that start

down the journey often will not finish the journey. They will run back to that place of safety that they

had before.

Rachael Novak:

[12:12] 100%. Well, I think that, again, it kind of comes back to, like, the commitment level of being

okay, being uncomfortable for a season in order to get to the next evolution of who you are, right?

Like, when people come into, like, our organization, or we're coaching people into business or into

real estate in general—, This is not a test to see who's like the smartest and the most skilled. Like

getting into business for yourself or getting into this industry especially is who can take kicks to the

face and struggle and grit the longest? Who can outlast everyone else while also building the same

skills? Like you put everybody in a level playing field with skill sets and with opportunities. It's going

to be the people that can be resilient enough to continue to take the hits and be discomfort or be

uncomfortable. That are going to grow into that much better.

Mike Novak:

Just time.

[13:05] Right, and oftentimes the only variable to getting to the other side is just keep going. Exactly.

Rachael Novak:

as an option.

[13:12] Exactly, but it's the removing the safety net, the comfort from what you know, removing that

Mike Novak:

[13:21] Right?

Rachael Novak:

[13:21] Like that's what you literally have to do. So like the story I know Alex Ramosi tells a lot is,

you know, when he was the fraternity president or whatever it's called in his fraternity, like the head

of, you know, his job was to collect fraternity dues and to, you know, bring guys in and do the rush

thing and all that. And so before they came in, before they started, I think it's called the rush when

they come in, he would tell them like, hey, this is going to be really difficult. This is going to be really

hard. It's not going to be very fun. And everybody at the beginning, just like in real estate or just like

any business. Oh, I know. I know it's going to be hard. I can handle hard. Like, no problem. No

problem. Well, they got in and two, three weeks in, some of these guys are like, fuck this. Like,what on earth? Like, this is, mm-mm, like, uh-uh. They're down in the dumps, and they're like, And

he gathers them all in the living room, whatever, you know, and he's like, so how we doing? You

know, he's like complaining and bitching and moaning like this is tough. He's like, yeah, this is what

hard feels like. Like, this is what I told you it would feel like. So it's making the connection mentally

between what you think something is going to feel like and then when you actually feel it,

reconciling those two. Because what people think that they can handle versus what you feel and

then want to be able to handle in the moment are very different.

Mike Novak:

[14:39] Yeah. When I've experienced that, and I have experienced that in life multiple times, that

dynamic is where you've underestimated the amount of pain you're about to experience.

Rachael Novak:

[14:47] Yes, exactly.

Mike Novak:

[14:48] You didn't actually mentally prepare for what you were going to do. You just kind of jumped

into it. And because you weren't mentally prepared, you were caught off guard. Yes. And now.

Rachael Novak:

[14:57] You're making an emotional decision as opposed to of fulfilling a commitment you may have

made to yourself right.

Mike Novak:

[15:02] I remember when i was climbing mountains like when i was like really just starting there'd be

times where i would be like on a summit day i'd be like wow this is way fucking harder than i

expected like i'm talking like a hundred times harder than i expected like i thought hard was hard

this is like, fucking near impossible like snow conditions the altitude being 12 years old details you

know like, having a navy seal yelling at you and about to punch you in the face if you don't keep

going like just like a whole nother level of pain and discomfort that i hadn't like really wrapped my

head around like i and that to me like that's where like people really like the guys that experience

massive transformation and growth they have the ability to mentally walk down that path before

their body experiences it so they already experience that pain they visualize it this is why

visualization is so important and so they've already experienced it so then when it actually happens

in real life they're like oh, This is what I expected, right? Sexy isn't as bad as I thought, right? Like, I

don't think I've been caught off guard with how painful or difficult something has been for a while.

Like, just because I've already, at this point in my life, I have a practice where I will, like, visualize it

before it happens. You know what I'm saying?

Rachael Novak:

[16:12] Yeah, mine is like, you know, when it comes to putting a scale together or figuring out exactly

what I can or cannot handle, if I'm committed to an outcome, right? And I love the adage, like, Like

stay persistent in your outcome or say committed to the outcome, but flexible on the way there or

something like that, right?Rachael Novak:

[16:32] Like the path to the outcome can change, but the outcome itself really is the goal. So

whenever I have a goal that I'm working toward and I think that I know, I think that I understand

what it's going to take. I think I know the kind of pain and suffering and bullshit that I'm going to

have to go through to get there. When i experience something that's pushing that limit of what i feel

like is the top of what i can handle i recalibrate and i stop and i say okay that was really fucking

tough like this was a tough day i stayed the course but man that was tough and instead of going oh

i don't want to do that i don't think i can handle more that's not i go all right that's my new baseline

that's my new one that's zero exactly so if i can handle a 10 realistically without dying i can handle

a 10 then every time i experience pain every time i experience suffering every time i experience

hardship trouble difficulty and it's like a new level of like the feeling of depth of pain or whatever

that i'm experiencing or have before i'm going to recalibrate that all the way back down to one and

say okay now that i've got that recalibrated now i can handle 10x that again and And yeah, like

that's that's that's exactly right. Like that's how you build your capacity in business and

bodybuilding in all these different arenas is to be able to in real time reflect and say, OK, if I can

recalibrate this, then I can handle more now.

Mike Novak:

[18:00] This is why women are so much tougher than men usually, because they've gone through

childbirth a lot of the time, and that is now their one. Well, that's where I learned this.

Rachael Novak:

[18:08] Yeah. This is exactly where I learned this.

Mike Novak:

[18:10] Was having three of your babies at home. I have not ever experienced that, so we can't

wrap our head around it, you know? Yeah. Sure as hell can't visualize it.

Rachael Novak:

[18:18] Well, I mean, that's literally exactly where I learned it was, you know, every time I would go

into labor and, like, have a contraction, I was like, okay, it's going to split my body in half. Like, this

is very painful.

Mike Novak:

[18:27] The snowbacks have big heads.

Rachael Novak:

[18:28] I would recalibrate it and be like, okay, I can handle up to 10 again, right? Those were the

toughest things. If I can have three Novak babies, man, I can do anything.

Mike Novak:

[18:37] So let's give people kind of a framework with which they can look at discomfort they can look

at fear and they can you know maybe make a better decision where they're going to want to

embrace a little bit more and i i think like you know the reality the truth here is that most people

won't do this right there's gonna name that like i'm talking like 98 percent of people like it's the vast

majority that won't even ever detach from comfort and the safety, right? But for those like 2% ofpeople that will, a lot of them will then turn back like we talked about. And this was like really elite

few that actually see at the distance. And so like, I think if you kind of have a framework to look at

this from, it's going to give you a better chance of making it through. And maybe that 98% turns like

96%. So when I look at fear and discomfort, I really see them together. And so I try to think like,

what is giving me this feeling of fear?

Mike Novak:

[19:33] And what is causing that? Like, is it something that's unknown? Is it fear based on worst

case scenario? Have I identified what the worst case scenario is? You know, is it based off of logic?

Is it based off of emotion? Is it based off of a past experience or trauma? And articulating that and

reflecting on it is very, very important, right? And the problem I think a lot of people have is when

they are faced with a crossroads to make a decision, whether big or small, is they don't take

enough time to think about it. They're just like, no, I'm not going to do that. That's just their reflex.

Mike Novak:

[20:08] They're like, well, I don't want that. No, I'm not going to do that. If you actually just slow down

that thought process and stay open-minded to it and ask yourself that question, I think it can reveal

a lot about where you're actually at and help you be more in integrity and truth with yourself. It'll

open up truth.

Rachael Novak:

[20:22] 100%. So step one is really if fear flares up, Which it does. That's exactly what happens

when you step outside of a comfort zone. When you are moving into something that is the opposite

of what comfort would mean to you, it invokes fear. So your trigger is that fear being invoked and

you saying and slowing down, where is this actually coming from? Is this a past trauma is this

rooted in reality or is this a story that i've just made up in my head and now i'm making a decision

based on a worry that is fictitious that hasn't happened at all and i think you said something too,

being able to slow down and identify absolute worst case scenario, because that's how my brain

goes. So I'm going to identify absolute worst case scenario. Can I live with that? If so, then

anything else I can handle.

Defining Fear and Discomfort

Rachael Novak:

[21:13] Literally anything else. So if the worst case scenario is that I'm right back in the same spot

that I am right now, okay, that's a worst case scenario. Let's go.

Mike Novak:

[21:22] Yeah. And I think that this is an important thing to really slow down and go deeper on

because a lot of people, they won't define worst case. And so there is no worst case. It's just an

undefined.

Rachael Novak:

[21:34] And that's scarier. Yeah. Uncertainty. Right.Mike Novak:

scared. Yeah.

[21:36] I don't know what's going to happen. I haven't defined it. And so that makes me even more

Rachael Novak:

[21:41] Right.

Mike Novak:

[21:41] If you can define worst case scenario, we now have something that's tangible, right? Like,

okay, well, that's on that far end of the spectrum, right? That's as bad as it's going to get. But if you

haven't defined that, then you have no compass, right? So that's key.

Rachael Novak:

[21:54] Yeah.

Mike Novak:

[21:54] So that becomes very pivotal and foundational as establishing that worst case scenario and

then really figuring out what is the trigger to this fear. Next step is kind of what you already alluded

to is like, is this based off of feeling or fact, right? And this is why we stack at Warrior.

Rachael Novak:

[22:08] Right?

Mike Novak:

[22:08] The stacking of fear and of emotion, whether happy, sad, guilt, shame, you know,

appreciation, gratitude, whatever. Identifying the trigger and then separating the facts from the

feelings becomes extremely important to distilling truth.

Rachael Novak:

[22:21] Right?

Mike Novak:

[22:22] Because the way that people are wired, it's kind of getting psychological here, but they, they

tend to create their own truth. Right. Right. And that comes in the way of telling themselves really

crazy fucking stories. Exactly.

Rachael Novak:

[22:33] Right.

Mike Novak:

[22:33] But when you sit down and you actually like separate fact and feeling, what do you find?

Right. Something totally different. Exactly. Right. Like we are, we are all crazy. And if you don't think

you're crazy, you're the craziest motherfucker out there. Okay. I'm just gonna tell you that right now.

But I mean, how many times have you stacked where, when you go through that process of

separating facts and you're like, what the hell am I thinking? Yeah. You know what I mean? Like I'm

completely off base right now.Rachael Novak:

[22:55] Yeah. I mean, I I've stacked multiple times, especially in the beginning when it's like a

reactive stack, right? An emotion comes up that I'm going to stack. And then I'm going through the

process of separating this fact from this feeling? What is this feeling actually coming from? What

are the facts of this situation? And I go, oh shit, I literally just made this all up in my head. And none

of this is actually based in reality. This is based off of this trauma, this one thing that happened a

long time ago that somehow is re-earthed and I'm telling myself the story that that's going to be a

similar outcome when it's not even close. So it's being able to separate those two and say, what

are the actual facts of this. Because even discomfort, even the feeling of being uncomfortable is

just that, a feeling, right? The facts are, I got good sleep still. The facts are, I still can walk around

and move my body and eat and I'm healthy and I have everything that I need. So if you really break

down facts from feelings, most people can handle 10 or 100 times what they think they can.

Mike Novak:

[24:02] Right. But you have to get the truth, right? And that's what that process is

Separating Facts from Feelings

Mike Novak:

[24:06] all about, is separating the truth from the story. Right. And that's why we got to identify what

the facts are. Once we know the facts, then, you know, we got to get really clear on, are we just

trying to avoid this fear? Are we just trying to avoid being uncomfortable? Like, why do we not want

to do something here? Like, why do we feel stuck?

Rachael Novak:

[24:24] Because it's a pain in the ass. Because a lot of times doing something different than what

you're wanting to do or what you've been doing is a pain in the ass. It's new. It's a struggle. There's

resistance. Right? So it's like, yeah, some people are like, I don't want to. Because they just don't

want to deal with it. They're just, oh, they're comfortable because it's just a pain in the ass to do

something different. It's called lazy. It's called lazy.

Mike Novak:

[24:48] Do you think it's lazy or fear, though? Like, which one do you think is?

Rachael Novak:

[24:51] I think it's laziness rooted in fear. Yes.

Mike Novak:

[24:54] I could see that. I think fear is the overarching thing that holds people back. I think laziness

is definitely a factor. But I think fear, if people are really honest with themselves, is the major issue.

So then I ask two questions. The first one, what is the cost of not taking action in this

circumstance? Like I got this emotion of fear, this feeling of fear, and obviously there's a decision

that has to be made. What's the cost of not doing anything? And sometimes not doing anything is

the right thing to do, right? Like Jocko has talked about this a lot, about letting... Things just kind of

materialize and develop, right? Like a lot of leadership sometimes is in this, you know, bucketwhere you like, you have all this information, there's a situation that's developing and you need to

let it continue to develop because it's not really anything yet. Yes, exactly. Yeah.

Rachael Novak:

[25:43] It's instead of infusing emotion because of speculation in the situation, sometimes you just

have to, especially as a leader, you just have to let this play out. Not every single action requires a

reaction from you. Yeah.

Mike Novak:

[25:56] And Jocko calls that tactical patience. Do I have the tactical patience to let the situation

develop so that then I'm actually ready to do something? And then what's the opportunity if I say

yes? Like what, what doors could this open for me?

Rachael Novak:

[26:09] Right.

Mike Novak:

[26:10] And I think if you look at it from that perspective, then I think you have a framework to make

better decisions, but still a lot of people are going to stay stuck, right? They're still not going to

leave that place of comfort. They're going to stay stuck in that, that pit. They're not going to climb

up to that next peak because it just scares the shit out of them.

Rachael Novak:

[26:25] Well, and as you were saying that about how, you know, what is the opportunity if I say yes

and embrace it? Sometimes you don't know. Like, you don't know exactly what the opportunity is,

right? And I think, you know, there have been situations and opportunities in our life that we've

taken, because we trust either the person or we trust the situation that it's going to be positive in

some way, even though we don't know it. But even that, negative or positive, not knowing an

outcome is what keeps people from moving, right? It's what keeps them in their safety net. So if I'm

taking a risk and there's more downside than upside,

The Opportunity in Discomfort

Rachael Novak:

[27:05] I'm going to really, really closely assess that. If I'm assessing a situation and there's way

more upside than not, that's going to be a little bit easier to take a gamble on. But both sides are

uncertain. I'm uncertain what the outcome would be over here, and I'm uncertain of what

opportunities I may have over here. But if you are committed to growth, which is the whole point of

this podcast, which, to growth personally and professionally in every domain, then understanding

that there are way more potential positive opportunities with this decision and being committed to

then going through that process of discomfort and whatever it throws at you will result in

significantly more growth.

Mike Novak:

[27:45] I think what you're getting at is faith, right? I have faith this is going to materialize intosomething that's going to be good for me. So I definitely get that. I mean, we're really transparent

here. So let's walk people through like the decision of selling our house. Like, I mean, that was a,

like we said, it invoked fear in us. So how did we get through that? What were our fears? What was

the fact? What were the feelings? How did we determine what to do? Yeah.

Rachael Novak:

[28:07] I mean, so it really, for us, kind of came down to where we're at economically, where we're at

financially. When we built that home, we used everything we had. We had been saving and

scourging and brusting our asses and putting everything away that we possibly could for years.

Mike Novak:

[28:28] We rented for 12 years. Yes.

Rachael Novak:

[28:30] Literally. Living way below our means. It's way below our means. We, our spending plan,

which we'll get into a different time, not a budget, it's a spending plan, but our spending plan was

very modest. Like we were modest about it. And when we had the opportunity to build that property,

it... Us that we poured everything into it all of our finances like worked our asses off to get this so

we had attached so much emotion to that property because of what it took to get there that's why it

felt so safe that's why it felt so comfortable so for us to separate facts from fiction or facts from

feelings and start saying we are not in the same place anymore we we kept once we spent that the

money to build that property, we kept the same habits in place that we had had for 14 years or 12

years and continued to save and continue to invest and continue to live well below our means. And

so, you know, people hearing this, that didn't give us an excuse to go blow our money. That didn't

give us an excuse to go buy crazy things. Like we were still incredibly fiscally responsible. So five

years later, once we've spent the money to buy this house and then five years of savings and

working and investing and all this, we are in a much different financial situation five years later than

we were five years ago. And so we have resources and a safety net financially to be able to

weather storms.

Mike Novak:

That's significant.

[30:00] I was doing the math and our net worth is seven times what it was when we built that house.

Rachael Novak:

[30:05] That's huge.

Mike Novak:

[30:06] Significant.

Rachael Novak:

[30:07] You know what I mean?

Mike Novak:

[30:07] Right.Rachael Novak:

[30:07] But like it wasn't without incredible strategy and sacrificing through that entire time. Right. It

totally was. So that's what really we were able to separate the fact from fiction to the facts are we're

not in the same space anymore. We're not in the same place financially. We don't we shouldn't

have a fear of this anymore because the fear was rooted in trauma that happened in 2008. Right.

Mike Novak:

[30:30] Had always labeled that house like this is our forever home like we said that all the time and

we had built it with that intent and so we had to confront reality that things had changed right we no

longer wanted to drive 40 minutes each way to get to the office our kids were evolving into different

ages where they need to be more central we fly a lot we need to be closer to the airport, closer to

the office things like that so life had evolved and changed and we had to confront that and we had

to say yes you know like it was you that i think like last october like this is a really big problem. It's

only 10 hours a week in the car. And I didn't want to hear it. I was like, nope, not selling the house.

You know what I mean? And it took me like two months and then, you know, seeing Garrett selling

his place to be like, okay, let it go.

Rachael Novak:

[31:09] Well, and what happened when we finally had the conversation and said, okay, like we're

open to this, right? Like we're, we are, we've separated fact from feeling. Our feelings are not tied

up in this property. Our feelings are obviously our family, our security, our safety, but the facts are, if

another kind of property came up or if the right opportunity comes up, then we will know, that we

can move forward. And so it was the decision that we made to be open to that opportunity when the

opportunity came. It wouldn't have, I don't think it would have come. We wouldn't have been open

to it. No. Right? Yeah.

Mike Novak:

[31:45] Opportunities, you can't see them until you're open to receive.

Real-Life Application of Fear

Rachael Novak:

[31:48] Exactly.

Mike Novak:

[31:49] So, I mean, going through the framework, what is the fear of me is like, is this really a fear I

have of not wanting to be uncomfortable, right? And the answer is probably yes, not in case, right?

And what would be the uncomfortableness that you would say if that comes from that?

Rachael Novak:

[32:02] I mean, the tumultuousness of not living in that property and living in a rental temporarily is

very uncomfortable. That's a big part of it and of course like the the potential unknowns of what the

house would sell for and if house facet would sell if there was a lot of uncertainty right like we have

no we had.Mike Novak:

[32:20] A house that's very hard to value.

Rachael Novak:

[32:21] We had no.

Mike Novak:

[32:22] Idea what it was worth.

Rachael Novak:

[32:23] And we.

Mike Novak:

[32:24] We just we didn't know you know what i mean and so uncertain then what is the cost of not

taking action in that circumstance well for us it was our productivity right and there's some quality of

life it was like hey we're gonna each spend 10 hours a week in the car yeah.

Rachael Novak:

[32:35] Which is a lot like i can only make so many phone calls in the car what.

Mike Novak:

[32:39] Other what other costs would there have been from not taking action there i mean we would

have obviously not been able to see the next possibility right.

Rachael Novak:

[32:46] Exactly i mean we would have for sure missed out on the opportunity that we have now

which is, incredible opportunity for views and i think that there would have been some some missed

opportunities for the kids for lifestyle for summer for being in closer vicinity to friends it just it

changes everybody's lives a little bit when you have a little bit more proximity and efficiency in your

life. And that's what we were looking for. It's a season for us of efficiency, right? Over the last five

years prior, we wanted to be out far. We had the ATVs and the side-by-side and the dirt bike and

did all the fun things out in the county. And our kids' tastes have evolved as well. And now they

want to be at the skate park and they want to be meeting up with friends on their bikes and they

want to be doing these things that none of that would facilitate that kind of lifestyle living as far out

as it were.

Mike Novak:

[33:32] Right, okay. And then the last one was the opportunity if I say yes and embrace it. I.

Rachael Novak:

[33:36] Mean, we sold our.

Mike Novak:

[33:37] House for $300,000 more than we thought we were going to do. Yeah.

Rachael Novak:

[33:40] I mean, the blessing and opportunity to capitalize on what the home is worth and whatsomebody is willing to pay for it. And that has now set us up to be able to invest and yet again, and

do this again at a whole other level, right? Build again at a whole other level, even more of a bigger

dream than we would have ever, you know, expected five years ago. Right.

Mike Novak:

[34:02] We can be six months to the airport. We can enjoy an amazing panoramic view. We can

build a legacy property that could stay in our family for 100 years. You know, that would be

impossible to duplicate. We can be 10 months from the office. We can be 10 months from a gym.

Like, there's all of these opportunities. There's actually, like, way more opportunities than there is

potential risks.

Rachael Novak:

[34:21] There's way more. But it was all uncertain when we first made this decision. It was the

separating fact from feeling and recognizing that we are willing to go through discomfort in order to

be open to something bigger.

Mike Novak:

[34:32] So what was, again, like, you know, working through this matrix, what was the worst case

outcome that you had in your mind that you were okay with?

Rachael Novak:

[34:40] I mean, worst case was we move into the rental and we sell the house for like the minimum

that we thought might be possible. We'd still have about 1.6.

Mike Novak:

[34:51] 1.7.

Rachael Novak:

[34:52] Was like what we were kind of thinking was potential, worst case. We'd still, like, worst case

would be that we moved into a rental, we have that, and now we're shopping because the land falls

through or the building department says no to our plans or whatever we actually want to build on

this property is we're unable to. So then worst case is we get out of that contract and we go find

something that would be very suitable for our family, right? That we don't, like, absolutely love, love.

It's not, like, ours. We didn't build it. That would be worst case to me, which, again, I would be able

to live with, right? Yeah, we would have been fine.

Mike Novak:

[35:28] Yeah, we would have been totally fine.

Rachael Novak:

[35:29] So that's the thing is when you're able to bookend these potential opportunities or

uncertainties with this is worst case, and I'd be okay with that, it changes the entire conversation

around making that decision.

Mike Novak:

[35:43] Yeah, to me it was thinking it just might not sell for a certain number because it was so hardto know what the value was. But I ultimately just decided I'm willing to have the faith with what you

described earlier. I'm like, I got faith that this is going to work out. and if it doesn't I'll live with it yeah

we'll deal so I just think it's helpful to give people like a practical example of how we apply this and

how they could apply it too because it sounds, like hypothetical and like theory and I love tactical

like here's a real life example of how you could actually do this, so the last thing I just kind of want

to wrap up with as people listen to this and think about it is to really like ask yourself a question like

when's the last time you did something that made you really fucking uncomfortable and i ask

people this question because i realized last september it had been like three years since i had done

something that made me uncomfortable and i was in a very content, happy place traveling all the

time making great money great kids amazing wife you know like seemingly having it all right but i

hadn't done anything that made me massively uncomfortable and so i was actually kind of feeling

stuck yeah.

Rachael Novak:

[36:49] Kind of bored well.

Mike Novak:

[36:51] I'm just like okay there's got to be more to life than just this, but that's kind of like a weird

fucked up way to look at it when you seemingly have everything that you could ever want and

more, but you still want more. You want to, you want to like a challenge or a mission or you like,

this is the way that I'm wired.

Rachael Novak:

[37:06] No, you're, you're absolutely spot on. And this is something I was going to say earlier,

because I think what happens to a lot of people is when they get like, they're so comfortable and so

content that they go on autopilot, things get a little complacent. And then what naturally starts

happening is self-sabotage starts setting in. And so instead of having something to build or work for

or grow toward or or create or do they're now nitpicking their spouse or they're now you know

getting pissed off at their kids because they're you know for whatever reason so it's like devices

yeah yeah turn they turn to whatever alcohol weed porn because you know gambling whatever it is

as opposed to being like no if i channel this energy that i actually have like humans are meant to

produce humans are meant to grow and build and create and evolve and if we don't do that then

you're going to see a massive amount of self-sabotage which is what we see in society we see

people turning to vices that's why these huge you know vice industries are multi-billion dollar

industries because people are bored so that's what they use their energy on as opposed to if we

channeled that into growth discomfort creating building the sky is a freaking limit when it comes to

what we can do or create yeah.

Mike Novak:

[38:20] And i really think like humans are meant to expand. Especially men, especially very driven

men, they are best when they have a mission, whether that mission is in the gym, if it's planning a

trip, like I like to do, if it's building a business. We are best when we got something big that needs

to be tackled. I don't know why we just are. Women are the same.Rachael Novak:

[38:41] Though. It's like, we all want purpose. That's really what you're describing. That's what it is.

Mike Novak:

[38:45] Is purpose.

Rachael Novak:

[38:45] Yeah, you want purpose. What is the reason that I am here? Is it creating something? Maybe

not everyone wants to be famous. Don't mistake famous or micro celebrity with purpose. They're

very different. Do you have an impact on the immediate people in your life? Are you creating

something that you're proud of and can look back and say, wow, I've done this? That's purpose.

Right.

Mike Novak:

[39:07] So I leaned into making some very uncomfortable decisions. Selling our house was one of

like maybe five or six of those.

Awakening Through Fear

Mike Novak:

[39:14] And it completely has changed my perspective on things. You know and so that that's where

like life starts to get really fun and interesting again yeah exactly so again like think back when's the

last time you did something uncomfortable if it's been a while it's time to come off that mountaintop

or get out of that pit whichever one you're in because you can be in either one and be stuck and do

something that's going to make you grow and ascend and transform and make you really really

uncomfortable when you look at fear like and this i'm going to talk to men for a second because

men will look at fear and they will pretend like it doesn't exist. Especially, like, that's how I was for a

very long time until, like...

Mike Novak:

[39:54] And I'm going to tell you that it's very few men that can acknowledge that fear to another

man, but most importantly with themselves. And when men can actually acknowledge that fear with

truth, instead of pretending like it doesn't exist internally, that's when things get really powerful. Like

if we look at the warrior code, the warrior code starts with obviously real facts, which is what we've

been talking about a lot of this, like finding the truth, right? But then raw feelings is the second part

of the code and raw feelings is harnessing the power of fear, like other feelings. But in this

instance, fear, like how can I take this power and this like almost negative emotion and then

actually harness this and use it to propel me into something massive. And for me, what fear does is

it gets me massively awake.

Mike Novak:

[40:43] It's like God saying like, wake up and I need your full attention, right? Like it's battle time. I

need you to get suited up. I need you to put on your cape and I need you to go do your best work.

And, and fear is that it's that powerful, right? But you have to look at it from that perspective and

you have to be honest with yourself about it if you just say like hey it doesn't happen it doesn't existi'm not going to feel it it's gonna pretend like it's not there then you're not going to actually get to

where you want to go you're going to be rooted in just ignoring it and you're going to be rooted in

lying to yourself yeah you know that's it's just a powerful shift when you can realize it took me a

very long time to figure this out and i think a lot of men have that same

Your Wake-Up Call

Mike Novak:

yeah so.

[41:25] feeling they just don't want to acknowledge it to themselves or to other people you know

Rachael Novak:

[41:29] Consider this your wake up call if you're still listening to this wake up it's time to do

something that is outside of your norm it's time to find a mission it's time to go chase your purpose

it's time to wake up it's time to get uncomfortable let's.

Mike Novak:

[41:46] Go let's.

Rachael Novak:

[41:47] Go see you next week guys.