89. The Next-Level Woman

A year ago, we released an episode called The Next-Level Man. In this episode, we're turning our attention to women. We explore the traits, mindset, and relationship skills that separate a Next-Level Woman from the rest. 

We discuss confidence, communication, emotional availability, assertiveness, and elf-awareness.

We also tackle the behaviors that can quietly sabotage connection, dating success, and long-term partnership—and why many of the qualities found in a Next-Level Woman overlap with those of a Next-Level Man.

Whether you're dating, in a relationship, or focused on personal growth, join us for a candid discussion on healthy relationships, emotional maturity, masculine and feminine energy, dating, attraction, and what it really means to level up.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:12

This is the Clitoral Truth.

SPEAKER_05 0:16

The podcast where we sit around naked and talk about sex, dating, and relationships. Hey, shout out to our UK listeners.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Yeah, we've had a kind of a massive surge increase in listeners in the UK, in and around London, particularly.

SPEAKER_05 0:36

Our area was always at the top of our listenership. We're based in Salt Lake City, Utah, but that has changed.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

It has changed, definitely. It's been pretty cool to see because we've had the surge of like a third of our listeners are in the UK right now. So it's kind of fun for us to see that. It's a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_05 0:52

Very fun. And there's there's a few different cities or areas that it's mentioning. London, City of London. Canary Wharf. We had to look up, neither of us has been to the UK, would love to, but look looked up the difference between what is City of London then? And there's a high concentration of listeners coming out of City of London. So if that's you, yeah, like thank you so much. Yeah, Canary Wharf.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

Also Australia.

SPEAKER_05 1:16

Yeah, Australia has Riza too.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Yeah, Sydney and Perth, Australia are big deals. And then our U.S. cities. Lexi mentioned we're based in Salt Lake City.

SPEAKER_05 1:25

Shout out to the locals in Salt Lake City and Provo, Utah.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Yeah, got those. Columbus, Ohio, Ashburn, Virginia, Brooklyn, New York, Dallas, Texas, Manchester, Tennessee, Portland, Oregon, Minneapolis. We see you. Yep, we see you.

SPEAKER_05 1:39

Thank you so much for listening.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

And take a second to follow so you don't miss any of the weekly drops as these come through. And if you're listening on Overcast, click the yellow star because that recommends and that really helps us. So we appreciate your listening.

SPEAKER_05 1:52

Because of the big surge in our UK listenership, we're going to be dropping our episodes hours earlier on Tuesday so that they'll be there for you by the time you're on your morning commute.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 2:05

And so uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

Thanks for listening.

SPEAKER_05 2:10

This is the long-awaited next level woman episode we've been meaning to do for some time. Here we are with it. Next level man episode. Probably one of the most important episodes that we've recorded.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

One of the most downloaded, too. Really? It's not in the top five, but it's it's up there.

SPEAKER_05 2:29

It's up there and it's number 29.

SPEAKER_00 2:31

It's like six or seven, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:32

I think that everybody should listen to both episodes.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Yeah. And this is long awaited because the next level man one was more urgent. I'll just say that.

SPEAKER_05 2:46

It is.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Because it's so much more rare to find a next level man than it is a next level woman. So yeah, it was a little over a year ago that we did that next level man, and now we're here we are. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:00

But it's what you say. And you said that a next level man is an average woman.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

Right.

SPEAKER_05 3:06

So this was a little less needed, but we did want to deliver on it.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

Yeah, we want to close that.

SPEAKER_05 3:11

We want to talk about both.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

Yep. And it's there are important aspects to the next level woman. There are. In our again, I always say our lived experience, there are a lot of women out there who are not next level. That's true. And you know, in my dating, I dated quite a few of them that weren't.

SPEAKER_05 3:27

You and I experienced them in our everyday life, and we're just it saddens me. Is that the right like thing to say? But it's just like, oh my god, like it's sad. And there there were some of these things that we came up with on our notes. Some of these are just next level woman things. There are things that are just next level man things, and then there's some overlap.

SPEAKER_03 3:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:50

Whenever there was something that was overlap, I think we were both like, oh, that one. So it's usually, you know, there a lot of these things that are keeping women from being next level are found in the overlap, right? So pay attention to that.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

And we prepared for this. That's how we noticed that is we prepared for this by listening to next level men episode ourselves so we could see, you know, where is that overlap?

SPEAKER_05 4:14

Well, and also just observing, like I said, people, people out there, people in our circles. Oh yeah, people in our circles.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Comes up every day. All right, but I wanted to just talk a little bit, just at a high level, what a next level woman is, because we went through the whole next level man in that episode. But next level woman is deeply embodied, emotionally honest, erotically alive, relationally conscious, sovereign without being guarded, feminine without becoming dependent, powerful without becoming controlling. She doesn't need to win against men, she doesn't need to be rescued by men, she wants to co-create with men. So that's setting the stage for what we're gonna talk about today.

SPEAKER_05 4:52

I really like that. And I feel confident when you read that in myself.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

Well, and that's the thing, like I said, I dated a lot of women who weren't next level women, and that's why I only dated them. That's why we partnered. Because you should feel confident in this. This is what I saw in you, and this is what I was looking for.

SPEAKER_05 5:11

Just as a fun side note, my tattoo sleeve is named Sovereign Laura. Sovereign you know, being the entire theme, individuality and sovereignty being the theme of of this art piece, and Laura is a M83 song that kind of goes with that. Alright.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

Well, and one other clarification I want to make when I talk about who I dated, that's not to say that all of them weren't next level. There were other compati compatibility issues that made it so we couldn't form a more grounded partnership. Is what I did find in you, and so when we didn't have those those same incompatibilities. So it's uh I want to be clear that not everybody I dated was not next level. Right. Some of them really were, but we just didn't we weren't good together.

SPEAKER_05 5:57

Yep. Just because someone's next level doesn't mean you're gonna work out with them.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

You can still have incompatibility.

SPEAKER_05 6:02

All right, let's get into what we did when we and really if I could beg everyone if they hadn't listened to next level man number 29, go back and listen to it because we go over different expectations for men and women.

SPEAKER_00 6:19

And you don't have to do it this way, but as you're just talking about that, it almost feels like I want to say push pause, go back and listen to 29 and then listen to this. It'll give you some some good context. You don't have to, you can go back and listen to it after and you'll have some aha moments.

SPEAKER_05 6:32

But you can.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 6:33

And you know, we we'll be here when you get back.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

That's right.

SPEAKER_05 6:36

But so so we're gonna go over quickly some of these different expectations that we talk about, I guess, more in more at length in the next Level Man episode. One of those is parenting. We kinda talked about like this visual of a guy with a a baby carrier on and and holding, you know, another kid's hand, and then the mom, same thing, and one just says mom, and the other one says hands-on dad.

SPEAKER_03 7:03

Yes. As if he's doing anything extra for parenting his own kids.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

So that's kind of doing the same parenting. And probably, if you could look beyond the picture, he's still doing less parenting. Probably doing a poor job of it.

SPEAKER_05 7:16

But yeah, getting a lot of praise for parenting his own kids. So parenting is one, work-life balance is another. Women doing invisible free labor, a lot of men just thinking that they just need to go to their nine to five and bring home the bacon, and and that's their contribution. Right. And and that's just not the case anymore.

SPEAKER_02 7:36

Well, it's not because women are bringing home the bacon too. They're bringing home half the bacon a lot of times.

SPEAKER_05 7:40

Well, and even if they're not, if they're a tr like stay-at-home mom or they're still doing more work.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

Unpaid.

SPEAKER_05 7:47

And they're still carrying the majority of mental load, which doesn't even get accounted for. Even if it's just task load, they're still working more. They're just not getting paid. And that's the thing, is this value on paid labor versus unpaid labor. Please like look into that, read a book, pay attention. Even if they're not bringing home any money, they're typically working doing more. They're still in an inequitable situation.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

More time, probably more effort. Definitely more time.

SPEAKER_05 8:21

Definitely more hours. Yeah. Their job never really stops. And if they're carrying the mental all the mental load, it never does.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

Never stops.

SPEAKER_05 8:28

Never. Even in the middle of the night.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 8:30

Work-life balance. Cooking and meal prep, the different expectations. We're talking about expectations. We're not talking so much about what is done. What's expected? Is it expected that she's going to do the majority of the cooking? Is it expected that she's going to do the grocery inventory? Is it expected that she's going to go and shop for the groceries at Costco? What's where's the expectation? Hopefully that's starting to change.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Hopefully, too. Yeah. So it's true partnering. It's not like, hey, honey, will you come chop these onions and that's all you do? And then you can go back to your game or whatever. It's okay, I'm doing this and this and you're doing this. It's sharing the mental load of that food prep.

SPEAKER_05 9:08

It's sharing the mental load of it, too.

SPEAKER_00 9:10

So it's like, well, I know what else we need. I need so I need to also need to chop the cilantro, and I'm going to saute this meat while you're doing whatever you're doing.

SPEAKER_05 9:18

We're real good partners on because you carry mental load. You're not just going into the kitchen and saying, Tell me what to do, kind of thing. Unless one of us is in charge of something and I'm making one of you know the recipes that I know how to make and that I have, or you're like, oh, I came up with this idea for dinner. I might come in and say, What can I do? Because I'm not carrying any of the mental load of that dinner, and sometimes it's vice versa.

SPEAKER_04 9:41

Right.

SPEAKER_05 9:42

But usually it's like we go to Costco together, we both typically know what we need. We're partnering, like, I'm gonna go get this while you go get that. Yep. And you see a lot of couples where someone's just on their phone walking behind their wife or something because she knows what they need, and she just didn't want to go alone. It's not really partnering. He's not adding value, he's not adding anything, he's not carrying any mental load, he's not proactive, he's just like walking around with her because she wants to spend time together, but she wants a fucking partner. She doesn't want another kid, but that's basically what he is, and sometimes she can't see that.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

And if you if you're the partner adding lesser value in this situation, if it's a man, you know, we'll just go with this trope? Trope, yes, if it's if you're a man. Let me ask you, do you ever know when you're just about out of paper towels? Do you know when you need milk? Do you know what the state of the laundry is? Do you know any of that stuff without having to ask you?

SPEAKER_05 10:40

Do you know where you guys keep the lint roller? Do you know where things are? Not just if you're out.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

Do you know where the birth certificates are? Do you know where the you know, all of those things? Do you or do you have to go ask for any of that stuff? Do you know what size is? Or worse, if you never do ask for it.

SPEAKER_05 10:58

What size shoe does your 10-year-old wear? Like stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

Yeah, yeah. So it's like, well, well, you just made me think of that, because when we go to Costco, it's like, you know, we'll be there and it'll be like, oh, well, we're almost out of milk, or we need paper towels, or whatever. Some things you know already, and some things I know already, and some things it's just like otherwise, the if we were to follow the trope, it'd be like, Well, we forgot to get milk, why don't you remind me to get milk? And it's like, well, because I don't know. I'm not I'm not paying attention to the milk. It's not my job.

SPEAKER_05 11:30

Here's what the common I think this is what is common, is that the woman is carrying all the mental load of what we have, where it is, what's low, and then she calls her partner, her husband, yeah, while he's out doing whatever, maybe possibly coming home from work, and saying, We're out of milk, will you stop and grab two gallons?

SPEAKER_04 11:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:51

So it's still it's her carrying all the mental load, managing the household and the family and everything, and then he's the employee, she's the manager, and she's giving him an assignment to she's giving him task load, but it's not mental load, and that's not partnership.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

Right.

SPEAKER_05 12:07

It's really not.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

Yeah, and I'm I'm reminded of a reel I saw probably five years ago or so, and it might have just been clickbait. Well, I don't think so anymore. Back then I thought it was, but right now there's so many of so much of this out there that's legit for real, people believe this way. But it was some guy complaining about how his wife sent him to the store to pick something up and forgot to tell him that they needed milk or something like that. So she calls him when she's and when he's already on the way back and said, Will you get milk too? And he refuses to do it because she wasn't organized enough to tell him that he needed it while he was there. So it's like, no, I'm not doing that. You needed to tell me that before.

SPEAKER_03 12:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

That's the opposite of what we're talking about here. It's that he should have known they were out of milk. She should never have had to send him to the store. It's like, oh, we need this and this and this. That's the difference in our dynamic.

SPEAKER_05 12:57

She's the manager sending him to the store.

SPEAKER_00 12:59

Yeah, and our dynamic is, oh, we're out of milk. You may not even know that.

SPEAKER_05 13:03

Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

But I know already, so I'm gonna go get it.

SPEAKER_05 13:06

Yeah, I don't have to tell you.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

Right.

SPEAKER_05 13:09

And I also don't have to be the only one that knows.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

Exactly. So that's the mental load. You don't have to carry the mental load because you know I've got it too.

SPEAKER_05 13:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

We don't even divide it up. It's like you got the mental load for the fridge, I've got the mental load for the pantry.

SPEAKER_05 13:23

It's you can. We could if that works for you, to to say that's your mental load or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

But I will say for that in most cases, that's a whole other layer of work you're adding to it. That's a rework loop that you're doing. Because it's like, well, we gotta divide this evenly, and so you do this, and I do this, but then you gotta manage that list.

SPEAKER_05 13:42

It's best just to share it all, and that is true partnership.

SPEAKER_00 13:45

Yeah, just be a co-manager of the household.

SPEAKER_05 13:48

Right. Next expectation: communication slash emoting.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 13:54

What's expected of women to communicate and what's expected of men?

unknown 13:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 13:59

Those are different expectations. Are men given giving the bare minimum of their feelings, emotions, or just communication and are they giving one-word answers? Are they really I I mean, girls get the this bad rap of we talk too much.

unknown 14:15

Right.

SPEAKER_05 14:15

Well, men don't talk enough. Certainly not about their how they feel. There's a different expectation there. And if a girl wasn't opening up, if she was super quiet and giving one word or two word answers or one phrase, we would look down on her. We would think she's stuck up, she's a bitch, or she's she's she's not she's difficult.

SPEAKER_00 14:34

You're not fully contributing. She's difficult, yeah, you know, kind of thing. But men can be all closed.

SPEAKER_05 14:39

Non-accommodating, non-bubbly women get a bad rap.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

They do. But men get a free pass.

SPEAKER_05 14:45

They're mysterious, they're weird, right? They're difficult, right? They're not friendly, they're not open enough, and men are just expected to be quiet and gruff and reserved, and and that's okay, and stuff. And so I think that those there's a different expectation there.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

Yeah. Men get a free pass, women get a penalty. They get five minutes in the penalty box.

SPEAKER_05 15:09

Appearance. This could be an entire episode. We will not go too deeply into the different expectations of appearance.

SPEAKER_03 15:17

Right.

SPEAKER_05 15:17

You have a couple that is getting ready to go to a wedding reception. She's gonna look like a red carpet model, you know, a red carpet star by the time she's ready. He is likely going to put on what she told him to put on, and there's nothing wrong with that because some guys just admit to I don't have any fashion sense.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

Me, for one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:43

But there's a difference between trying to learn, putting in some effort, being interested enough, and just being another one of the kids that the wife has to dress. There's a difference. Okay, we all have our strengths and weaknesses, but there's a time where it's not a strength or a weakness, it's a disinterest and a lack of effort. Likely she's gonna say, Wear this, and he's gonna put that outfit on and tie his shoes and hopefully tie his tie that he knows how to tie, and make sure his hair doesn't look like bedhead and walk out the door. Where's the jewelry? Where's the makeup? Where's did you blow your hair dry? Did you did you paint your nails? Did you get that pedicure before this event that you just needed to get? Where the expectations did you shave? Did you the expectations are wildly different?

SPEAKER_00 16:38

Well, this reminds me of last night. We're going somewhere, we're going out, and I'm doing all this stuff to get ready, and you're doing stuff to get ready, and I'm doing some stuff to get both of us ready, and we're getting heading out the door, and I'm like, Oh, I didn't put my makeup on. I put on an eyeliner and I hadn't done it yet. So it's like, I'm the one holding this up because I haven't had my makeup.

SPEAKER_05 17:02

But how often is it the other way around where the guy's sitting around because all he did was get dressed, waiting for his wife, and he's like, Oh, we're always, you know. Some guys are fine with waiting because they know what the you know what the the deal is, and some guys are stupid enough to be impatient and think, like, oh, why does she take so long?

SPEAKER_00 17:20

Right.

SPEAKER_05 17:20

Why do you think she takes so long, dumbass?

SPEAKER_00 17:22

If you take the same amount of time, you'd look as good as she is.

SPEAKER_05 17:25

You don't do your nails, you don't wear any makeup, you don't pluck your eyebrows, you don't do shit, and then don't wonder why she's taking longer. Those expectations are wildly different.

SPEAKER_03 17:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 17:36

And I really like the male loneliness epidemic for this reason that hey, the bar has got to be raised in this category probably because women had to marry back in the day because they did not have rights. So they had to marry to get the rights. And so, frankly, they married ugly men. So that's because they had because men are like, why should I care? I just gonna roll out of bed, make sure my hair is okay, and hit the ground running. But now it's different. She doesn't need to choose your ass. She doesn't need you. She has enough rights, not enough, but she has enough rights to not need to marry a man. So now it's a little competitive. Now we see guys, some of these younger guys, especially, taking note of their makeup, their face, their eyebrows, their haircut. Am I accessorized at all? You know, am I boring? Am I interesting? My clothing choices, what am I doing physically to attract a woman?

SPEAKER_00 18:39

And it's I I'm reminded of a video I saw a couple of years ago. They were interviewing a bunch of, it was in London or somewhere, they're interviewing these women back in the early 1960s, and they're asking about their marriages. I remember one woman being asked if this if she thought her husband was attractive, and she was like, not really, not particularly. But the point was, and I was like, why are you married? But the times are so different because she had to be married to have any rights or anything.

SPEAKER_05 19:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

Looks were not important.

SPEAKER_05 19:09

That's not important when you can't own a fucking credit card or property.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

Whether you love them was unimportant. Whether how they looked was unimportant. It was you needed somebody to get through life with.

SPEAKER_05 19:21

And I always think of how You needed a man to get through life. How low men should feel. I don't know if they do, but how low they should feel if someone is marrying you for any other reason other than they love who you are and they're f wanna fuck you.

SPEAKER_03 19:37

Right.

SPEAKER_05 19:38

Like for any other reason, but that's the that was mainly the case. So I think like, damn, these men should have had like the lowest self-esteem, I think. Right. And maybe they did, and maybe that is where men men's insecurity comes from because I'll say it here, I'll say it again. Men are way more overall insecure than women. It might have been created by people marrying them other than for them.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

Well, and the just because you're a man, I gotta have a credit card and well, and the ones that didn't get spawned by insecurity through all that are the ones who are like, Well, it doesn't matter if she likes me or not, she's stuck with me.

SPEAKER_05 20:18

Because Right, but what does that do to his self-esteem is what my question is. Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

And I think over time, the evolution of men, it's probably destroyed self-esteem. But back in those days, a lot of them probably didn't care. It's like, well, you're stuck. You you you if you divorce me, where where are you gonna go?

SPEAKER_05 20:36

I know, but I just think that that would feel like shit. Oh, it should. To know that their woman didn't marry them for any other reason other than to have enough rights to survive and to be fed and housed and how does it feel like the difference? Can you imagine? You know what it's like to be with a partner who is with you for you because she chose me. She's in love with you and likes looking at you. How would you feel that I can't imagine the difference between that and I think this person got with me because she had to so that she could be taken care of.

SPEAKER_00 21:13

Back in those days, mid-century, last century, it was it it they weren't happy relationships. They were transactional. A lot of them. Not all of them.

SPEAKER_05 21:23

I just would feel like shit. Yes. But women have never had to feel that we can't imagine that because we've always been chosen based on who we are and what we look like. Right for the most part.

SPEAKER_03 21:36

Right.

SPEAKER_05 21:36

Because men don't have to go any other way.

SPEAKER_03 21:40

Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_05 21:41

I, as a woman, can't imagine someone choosing me for a different reason than for who I am and how attractive I am.

SPEAKER_00 21:49

Right.

SPEAKER_05 21:49

And I think that would feel like shit personally.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

Well, yeah, no, and I think that the way this has kind of gone nowadays is you get the whole incel red pill group that are now being Locked out because they still think those rules apply. They still think that they ought to be able to they're entitled to have a a woman in their lives. But the ones who are now where the relationships have a chance are the men who get that I have to earn this. I have to be something. I have to be desirable. Bring something to the table.

SPEAKER_05 22:21

Well, and the thing about the red pill community or whatever is that they they're mistaken on what they need to bring to the table. They think they need to bring things to the table.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

They're just bringing all the wrong things.

SPEAKER_05 22:32

They're just bringing the wrong things.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

They're bringing the 1950s things.

SPEAKER_05 22:36

They're bringing great things, but that don't mean anything because they're not bringing the most important things.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

Right. They're bringing the things that were important in the 1950s. They're just 80 years too late.

SPEAKER_05 22:48

Exactly. Alright, household managing. So mental load. The different expectations here. Men don't really have the expectation, even now, when they couple with a woman to carry as much mental load. Yeah, we kind of. I think this is one of the worst categories, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 23:06

Again, we've talked about this in other episodes and we alluded to it just a few minutes ago. Here was you just they are kind of like an employee in the company rather than a co-manager of the company. You know, we were talking about co-managing the shopping list or then supplies and the They expect to be given tasks, but not to manage. Right. So you're not a manager, you're an individual contributor, just like one of the kids.

SPEAKER_05 23:31

Alright, let's get into some of these aspects and traits, what have you, of a next level woman then. We're gonna try to get through, there's quite a few of them, just like there are with next level man, so we'll try to get through these quickly. Okay, quality has to be at the top of the list. She knows she's equal, but she sees that she's not.

SPEAKER_03 23:50

Right.

SPEAKER_05 23:51

That's a next level woman. Yes, she's knows she is, she's not internalized. We'll get to internalized patriarchy, internalized misogyny, internalized sexism.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

So kind of the opposite of this when you're not a next level woman is you're reading.

SPEAKER_05 24:06

She's caught up in that internalized patriarchy, misogyny, and sexism.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

So she doesn't realize She doesn't realize the inequality. There's inequality, that's right.

SPEAKER_05 24:15

She doesn't realize the inequality, but in this case, she knows she's equal, but she sees that she's not.

SPEAKER_00 24:21

Right.

SPEAKER_05 24:22

In theory.

SPEAKER_00 24:23

And so she's gonna be on a quest to get that equality. And therefore, uh She's all about equality. She's not gonna be able to partner with a next with a non-next level man because of that.

SPEAKER_05 24:34

Okay, next. She does not defer to men in any way. Not relationally. Uh we we always come back to this woman that we are were out with and heard uh telling us a story of the shitty relationship that she was in, and that she I quote, he won't let me break up with him. Quote. Relationally, she does not defer to him.

SPEAKER_04 24:55

Right.

SPEAKER_05 24:56

Sexually, she does not defer to him in his timetable, his up or down or whatever in terms of orgasm or that session.

SPEAKER_03 25:06

Right.

SPEAKER_05 25:06

Um she does not defer to him in the decisions that affect her. And this could be something like voting. She doesn't say who'd you vote for?

SPEAKER_00 25:18

Right.

SPEAKER_05 25:19

She knows her own damn answer.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

Yeah. You know, just decisions that she has her own life, her own views, her own values. And she lets you know what it is. She doesn't just defer to him for those. Or surrender them.

SPEAKER_05 25:31

Alright, next, a next level woman requires shared mental load. We just talked about this and the expectations.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

And so that's a good one to think about. It requires shared mental load. If you're in a relationship and you're not requiring that shared mental load, you're not next level.

SPEAKER_05 25:51

No, this disqualifies, this is huge. This disqualifies a lot of close but no cigar next level women, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

I uh Yeah, and I think a lot of those women could be, but they're not pushing through to the finish line.

SPEAKER_05 26:06

Yep, they could be, but they're not. Because they're not requiring shared mental load.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

They're they've got an upper limit problem there.

SPEAKER_05 26:12

They've got an equality problem. We go right back to the beginning of the, you know, they've got an equality problem.

SPEAKER_03 26:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 26:18

Okay, a next level woman requires the seven bridges if partnered and meets them personally.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

Right. It's not enough to require them if you can't live them.

SPEAKER_05 26:28

We recently did an episode, the seven bridges of a uh a solid personal relationship or a solid relationship with yourself, right? Is what it's called.

SPEAKER_03 26:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 26:37

So go check that out.

SPEAKER_03 26:39

That'll help.

SPEAKER_05 26:40

She has a strong sense of identity, including sexual identity. We just did an episode about having a strong sense of sexual identity, and in that we do talk about just having a strong sense of identity. Right. We mostly talk about sexual identity, but it's a great episode for just anybody, especially women, yeah, to find out what does that mean? What does that do I, you know? You'll know when you listen to that episode.

SPEAKER_04 27:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 27:11

So we've got so many episodes to refer you back to in this one as we move along here. Okay, she pursues her own goals, slash life, slash dreams, and those goals, dreams, her life is not determined upon anyone else.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

And you see this a lot in this whole thing.

SPEAKER_05 27:30

Sacrifices made of careers like, well, I'm gonna become a teacher so that I can, you know, and and be home in the summer with the kids. Truly, if that's what you want to do, but if it's because you are not gonna be co-parenting as in an equal manner, and that that responsibility is going to be mostly laid on you, which is inequality. You know, think about that. You're the decisions that you make, are you making them based on what you really want, what you really want to do, or are you making them based on I've got to be the supporting role in this film?

SPEAKER_03 28:11

Right.

SPEAKER_05 28:12

I'm not the main character.

SPEAKER_03 28:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:14

I am best supporting actress.

SPEAKER_03 28:16

Right.

SPEAKER_05 28:16

If that rings a bell, then you know, maybe you're putting your career or your plans or whatever on hold or just off for somebody else.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

So be honest with yourself, because this reminds me of an interesting story that hits very close to home. I have a daughter who's a teacher. She teaches the fourth grade, and when she was going through college, so her mom's educator too, was a teacher, now a principal, all that. And while my daughter's going through college, I was a little suspicious that that's exactly what she wanted to do. That was her goal and dream, or is she doing that because she was going into the family business because it works for the city?

SPEAKER_05 28:52

She sees how that can work for a family, and so it's not really her number one, but that's what I questioned, and I kept pushing and pushing and pushing, and she finally kind of grabbed me by the face.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

Like I like to use that image and say, Dad, I'm I know what I'm doing. This is what I really want to do. And now to watch her, and I then I I stepped back and said, Great, go do that. And so now to watch her, she is the kind of teacher that her that the parents of her students brag about and do social media posts about. Yeah, she's a gifted teacher.

SPEAKER_05 29:23

She really was a teacher.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

Yeah, she really followed that vision. But to your point, I mean we use that example, but it could be any other example, right? Where it's like, well, I went into this because it's convenient for being a woman in the world.

SPEAKER_05 29:37

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 29:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 29:39

Are you going into that because it's convenient for being a woman in the world, or are you going into that because that is your number one dream job, that's what you want to do, and uh those are two very different things, right?

SPEAKER_00 29:53

Yeah, I bumped into somebody that I don't even know, just a chance meeting a a while ago, who had just started nursing school, and I said and she was in middle-aged HUD kids, I'm like, well, what what excites you about nursing? She paused for a minute and she said, Well, I think it'd be good now that I'm a single mom, it'd be a good occupation to support my family. And then she went on to say, Well, but I you know, I've always been kind of interested in it too. But I kind of walked away thinking, I wonder, I wonder if this is if she could start over and didn't have and had all the freedom.

SPEAKER_05 30:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:30

If she could go back to being 20, is this what she wanted to do?

SPEAKER_05 30:33

And look, I mean we all have to buy eggs. So i it's I'm not sure. No, I'm not, I'm not saying that. I think these are just things to consider. I think they're just things to consider.

SPEAKER_00 30:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 30:44

But you you have to ask yourself why and hope that you find some kind of balance.

SPEAKER_00 30:52

And so that and that's the thing. And and and and I still applaud that. It's like, well, if that's what it is, get into it wholeheartedly.

SPEAKER_05 30:59

Some people are just more logical in the world.

SPEAKER_00 31:01

And understand what it is that you that you love about that, so you can really enhance those pieces of that. So and then she did tell me, well, this is what I'm doing to begin with, but I see myself. Then she shared her vision with me, and then I was like, Oh, okay. So yeah, I kind of forgot about that. And she was like, Well, this is where I'd really like to go. I'd like to go into maybe like this particular realm of nursing. I'm like, oh, that sounds like it'd be give you a lot more work-life balance. And she said, Exactly. I know I'll have to pay my dues in the beginning, yeah. But this I think I'd find that really rewarding, and I'm like, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_05 31:34

This whole scenario though reminds me of my grandparents. My grandpa graduated high school in three years, graduated college in three years to to jump up to his older brothers who were already in dental school to catch up to them. In dental school, he became a dentist. And he became a dentist for very practical, logical reasons. And I it wasn't his I don't know if he grew up saying, I want to be a dentist. It afforded him great finances.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 32:04

He wanted to be able to cross a week off his calendar whenever he wanted to take time off for family vacations. And he wanted to have a a job that was very respected and set in his like, you know, yeah, if he wanted to cross off two hours or cross off a week and have his secretary reschedule those or whatever. He was very religious in my church growing up, and he served in what we call a lot of callings and capacities. Uh it's basically free labor for the church, jobs, if you will. He was able to to have time to serve his church and serve his community with the way that dentistry is in terms of setting your own schedule and being like high enough to be able to do that, you know. A teacher can't do that, right? A policeman can't do that, but a dentist can do that, you know, with their own office.

SPEAKER_03 33:03

Right.

SPEAKER_05 33:03

And you know, speaking of best supporting actress, that was my grandma, and I always ask the questions what would she have done if she did not live her life to be convenient for men of the world?

SPEAKER_04 33:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 33:18

What could she have done and accomplished? We will never know. He went on to volunteer on the school board, and then he became a city h councilman, and then he became mayor, and then he became a congressman, and she was always the best supporting actress. Next level women, completely autonomous in their decision making regarding parenting and mothering, or sorry, partnering and mothering, who are their first priority. This is starting to come about where younger women are saying, Yeah, tell me more. I actually don't have to have kids if I don't want to.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 33:57

I or I can have this many, or I can have them when I want. I I don't have to actually fill any prescription that I don't want to fill. I don't now, you know, we talked about the male loneliness of it. Now women don't need men. They're choosing men that benefit their life or not choosing them at all. Right. But they have that option, whereas decades past they did not.

SPEAKER_03 34:21

Right.

SPEAKER_05 34:21

Or they because they couldn't have any rights without partnering with a men, with a man. Even uh things like co-signing on a vehicle or on a piece of property. Sometime in the 70s.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

You couldn't you couldn't do any of those things on your own.

SPEAKER_05 34:38

Now couldn't have a bank account on your own, couldn't have we're seeing the effects of that, where okay, women don't need men, so they're not gonna choose men, you know that aren't next level. Yeah, that aren't next level that don't benefit their life. And so I think that a next level woman is completely autonomous, and that's a tough ask. Because even society pressure, familial pressure, parental pressure, falling into what everybody else is doing, it's very difficult to break out of that, even you know, we we say, okay, back in the 70s, you couldn't. Well, what about the 80s, 90s, and two early 2000s? You could but you could but you couldn't, or didn't, because of all of the stigmas and the expectations and the pressures, and it still was like, ugh, now we're finally, I mean, 40 years later or whatever it is, getting to the point where it's it's right looking okay, and it's still frowned upon in a lot of you know maybe you don't have your parents' approval or whatever, but you're still like, you know, everyone in my every woman in my family got married. I don't want to do that. I just want to partner with I I don't want to marry. Or everyone in my every woman in my family had at least three kids. You know what? I don't even want to have my own kids. I may want to adopt someday, but I may not. Like just different different things, right? They're just completely autonomous in that decision making.

SPEAKER_00 36:16

Which which the bright side of this is times are a change, and to quote Bob Dylan. It's we're coming a long way. We still had a long way to go, but when you think back at that, you know, like you know, it was illegal prior to 73 or 74, but the 80s and the 90s, we still were making the progress. When you look back at the women who were breaking out and pushing the agenda back then, they were viewed poorly by both men and women.

SPEAKER_05 36:41

Weird Barbie.

SPEAKER_00 36:42

Right, exactly. Which is getting less and less prevalent. I was listening to uh a podcast this morning where the part of it was they were talking about Obama as president, and and they played a p piece of an interview with him, and it was like As bad as things are right now, I'm I have to admit, things are changing have changed for the better over the long haul. You know, it's just like people are so so apt to say, Oh, it's never been worse than it is right now. Well, Civil War, that was pretty bad. Jim Crow laws, those were pretty bad, you know. Right. He brings those up, and I was like, Yeah, that's a great point.

SPEAKER_05 37:15

You know, yeah, women not being able to vote or yeah, own property pretty bad stuff, a little worse than where we are right.

SPEAKER_00 37:26

But that's why we do an episode like this to further that message.

SPEAKER_05 37:30

All right, next level women don't assume the role of caregiver. And this could apply in families, this could apply in extended families, this can apply in just parenting between mom and dad, this can apply anywhere, anywhere and everywhere. Women are automatic caretakers. Yeah, they automatically take care of people.

SPEAKER_03 37:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:53

And to not automatically assume that we don't need to spend a lot of time on this one.

SPEAKER_00 37:59

But it's it's about caring for children, it's about caring for parents in old age. It's the same.

SPEAKER_05 38:04

Yeah, look that's a great example. Think of aging parents. Yeah. Who is it that do you the sons take Do you ever see the sons or a man taking care of their aging parents? Not often.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

Even if they're like a family full of boys or a family full of boys and one girl, or yeah, or the grand.

SPEAKER_05 38:25

It's just unlikely that sons are really wiping the asses and doing that that caregiving work of aging parents. I I don't know if I've ever seen and how often do you we just expect that women step up and do that? And it's just normal.

SPEAKER_00 38:41

If the women change the diapers of the babies, they're changing the diapers of the parents.

SPEAKER_05 38:45

Alright, next level, women don't automatically clean up others' messes. And this could be in the workplace, the this could be in the home, this could be uh anywhere, right? Just messes. It doesn't have to be a literal mess of something spilled on the floor, it could just be something something's gone wrong. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:03

And you're just assumed, well, you've got to fix it.

SPEAKER_05 39:06

I think in a literal sense, in the home is probably It's the most glaring there. Yeah. It's invisible labor. Yeah. That things are just automatically cleaned up whenever you make a mess, and oh, so I don't have to worry about it.

SPEAKER_00 39:22

Well, and we've talked about this reel I've seen. I always go back to these reels, it just sparks in my mind where the where the woman's exasperated and it's like, I'm I'm done with this. I'm I'm tired of cleaning up all this shit. And the guy's like, Oh, don't worry about it. I think we've got elves or something that come in during the night, and you know, I left all this stuff on the coffee table in this morning, it's gone. Yeah. And she's just like, Yeah, I did it, you know. She doesn't say any of this. That's why it's yeah, that's the implication. He thinks it's elves. He thinks it's uh, you know, it's just magically gets taken care of. I can leave my shit everywhere. Parents men, kids, they do that because we clean up after people because we like to live.

SPEAKER_05 40:05

And the unfortunately, and I don't know why this is, it's like we most women I'd say. Not all, but most women like to live in a well-kept, beautiful environment, space, etc. Not all, but most reasonably. And it seems that kids and guys don't give a shit, and we can't figure out why.

SPEAKER_00 40:27

But again, don't don't enable by just cleaning it up and putting it away. If if you still want to live in a clean place and your husband's leaving shit all over, go put it in the driver's seat of his car if you're gonna do anything at all. I want to start to have the message.

SPEAKER_05 40:41

But I decided, and this is a very next level woman thing to do, I decided to stop doing it. And to That's a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 40:51

That's that's the that's getting more to the root cause.

SPEAKER_05 40:54

I stopped doing it, and the trade-off was that the house was more messy.

SPEAKER_03 40:59

Right.

SPEAKER_05 41:00

Because again, and it got me back to the question, which I never did figure out, why do women why are women less messy than because you have some clean kids and they grow up and and learn, you know, they like some order in their lives.

SPEAKER_00 41:13

It's it's not even gender-based. It's you like order, you don't care.

SPEAKER_05 41:17

Why do women seem more tidy and more neat and and less messy than men?

SPEAKER_00 41:22

Because it's assumed it's their job.

SPEAKER_05 41:24

But I don't okay, but what if you drop the like for me? I stopped doing that.

SPEAKER_00 41:28

Right.

SPEAKER_05 41:28

I think I just married a messy person, to be honest. So so didn't care. Right. Who never cared.

SPEAKER_00 41:34

But then but then the trade-off is you have to live in the mess too. So you've got you've got a couple of options.

SPEAKER_05 41:40

Yeah. You either get compatible with the person and make sure we're both clean. Or we're both messy and we don't care.

SPEAKER_00 41:47

Right.

SPEAKER_05 41:48

But there always seems to be an incompatibility there.

SPEAKER_00 41:50

But it's not sustainable long term.

SPEAKER_05 41:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:53

One of you, one of you is going to give up on your life if you do it that way.

SPEAKER_05 41:59

And it's always the messy person, though, that wins out because they don't care.

SPEAKER_00 42:02

Right.

SPEAKER_05 42:02

So they don't care either way. So if you're a clean person and you're listening to this, don't get with a messy person. Right.

SPEAKER_00 42:11

And if you're with one. Especially if you're a woman. If you're with one here, again, we'll plug the seven bridges. You've got to get real bias for communication.

SPEAKER_05 42:17

You've got to get really I would just give the advice because this is something that I honestly don't think this is something that changes very often. It it can, but it has to be the person who does it. It's not gonna be from a conversation that you have with them that you want them to change.

SPEAKER_00 42:32

And so if you have if you don't want to have that conversation or if you've had it and it's not working, you've got a compatibility of it. You've got to face that to say, do you do you want to continue to settle or do you want to get out of the conversation?

SPEAKER_05 42:45

And I don't think that conversation is going to work, is what I was saying. Right. I think that they people who want to be clean make the change themselves. And if the conversation's not going to work, you're still gonna be in an incompatibility.

SPEAKER_00 42:55

And if you if that's the reality of it and you do you don't want to have the conversation because you know it's incompatible, get the fuck out of that relationship.

SPEAKER_05 43:03

You either live with cleaning up after everyone, which is keeping you from being next level, or you live with a slightly messier space, and you have to make that decision. Yeah. Is it worth being with my partner to live in a slightly messy space or not? If you keep cleaning up people's messes, you're not next level. I'll just say that. Next level women don't allow weaponized incompetence. What is weaponized incompetence really quickly? It's where someone acts like they don't know how to do something so they can get out of doing it.

SPEAKER_00 43:34

Will you chop the onions for dinner? What do you mean by chop?

SPEAKER_05 43:38

What way do you want me to What's an onion?

SPEAKER_00 43:40

What do I chop it with?

SPEAKER_05 43:42

I was going a little bit further and giving that person a little bit more credit of being like, Wait, could so do you want me to try chop them this way and this you know? And it depends on I I get it if you have a tomato and you're like, Okay, is this gonna be for a stew or a sandwich?

SPEAKER_00 43:55

That's the fucking question.

SPEAKER_05 43:57

Like, but like do this is asking

SPEAKER_00 44:00

What are we using it for? What what am I cutting this for?

SPEAKER_05 44:02

This is different. This is pretending that you are a dumbass so that you don't have to do a job.

SPEAKER_00 44:09

Right.

SPEAKER_05 44:09

It's trying to get out of work by acting dumb.

SPEAKER_00 44:12

It's more work. And it's this is a continuation of the cleaning up after people.

SPEAKER_05 44:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:16

Because if if you continue to say, well, I need it this way, this way, this way, this way, and you do that every time, you're training, you're allowing weaponized incompetence. You're not training them into anything. No. Well, if anything, you well, the little bit of training you're doing is you're training them that weaponized incompetence is okay, and I'll just keep doing this.

SPEAKER_05 44:35

And then you usually are like, okay, I'll just do it, never mind. It's so annoying. There is a difference between like, if I don't know how to do something, I'll be like, okay, I will admit I don't know how to do that, but if you teach me, I think I can get it. And the only reason I wouldn't be able to get it is because I am legally blind. But as long as I can see, I can learn. So usually if you teach me once, it's like I got it, but that's not weaponizing. Not knowing how to do shit is not weaponized incompetence. Weaponized incompetence is when you know that you can figure it out or do it, but you just don't want to, so you act like you can't. Moving on. Next level women, deconstruct internalized patriarchy, sexism, and misogyny. They are a feminist, and they will proudly and loudly claim that because they understand what feminism is, which is simply the equality of sexes. Yeah. That's it. That's all feminism is. We still do not have that, so there is still a big, huge need for feminism. Yeah. Okay. They fight for women's rights, they fight for LGBTQ rights.

SPEAKER_00 45:41

Yeah. We did And they don't have to fight the men in their life for those as well.

SPEAKER_05 45:45

You can refer back to the first trait and aspect that we named, which was equality. We briefly hit on this internalized patriarchy. This is where you're so seeped into the system as a victim that you don't realize it and you don't see.

SPEAKER_03 46:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:03

It's like a dog that is trained to bite its own tail. You don't understand that you are hurting yourself.

SPEAKER_03 46:09

Right.

SPEAKER_05 46:10

It's normal for you. This is what we do. And I really like what you said about you don't allow the men in your life.

SPEAKER_00 46:16

I don't remember. Shit.

SPEAKER_05 46:18

Alright, they deconstruct homophobia.

SPEAKER_00 46:21

Oh, the thing I just said?

SPEAKER_05 46:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:23

Yeah, you don't allow the men in your life to get away with any of that stuff.

SPEAKER_05 46:28

Right, so it doesn't help when you just deconstruct your internalized patriarchy, sexism, and misogyny. That of your partner, if you're in a heterodynamic and you're trying to become a next level woman, your partner has to deconstruct patriarchy, sexism, and misogyny as well.

SPEAKER_00 46:46

You can't just do it and expect to go on. And I've had experiences with this. I've talked to women who are like, well, we're in this, I'm deconstructing, but he's never going to change. Okay, so why the fuck are you still with him? Right. That's my point. If he's never going to change, you're selling out. And and again, you can put that on the scale and say if that's worth it. And and that's okay too. You're free to choose that. But just realize you're settling for less of a life than you could than what you wanted.

SPEAKER_05 47:15

Let's add homophobia is a major indicator of next level people.

SPEAKER_00 47:20

So let's talk about, yeah. Here's the thing. A next level man is gonna be, if they're homophobic, they're gonna be threatened by a lot of stuff.

SPEAKER_05 47:29

You know, they're gonna be they're Well, you're not gonna be a next level man and be threatened by homophobia. You mean just a man? Just a man. Okay, sorry, just a man.

SPEAKER_00 47:38

Right. Just a guy. But here's the here's the female side of that. It's where you you you can't handle a man who's next level. Basically, is what it is. Because the next level man could come across with equally balanced feminine and masculine energy, and hopefully they do.

SPEAKER_05 47:54

He has to to be next level, actually. It's a requirement.

SPEAKER_00 47:57

Right. And so what what I find is, or what we've found, is that some women will be like, especially in dating, they'll be like, well, this guy's a little bit too neat for me. He's too pressed for me, too polished for me. Yeah, he just doesn't seem very masculine. And they throw out that term like they know what masculine means.

SPEAKER_04 48:16

Right.

SPEAKER_00 48:17

And they don't. They're talking about he's gotta be a lumberjack, you know, and he's gotta act like this.

SPEAKER_03 48:24

Watch out.

SPEAKER_00 48:24

Yeah. He's gotta he's gotta mistreat women, basically. They get totally turned off by a guy who is what we talked about earlier, where where it's like, oh, he knows how to take care of himself, he might get a haircut. You know, we've joked about my dating experience with the woman who questioned whether it was straight or not. Because I keep I take good care of myself physically and have a neat haircut. And I'm like, that makes me less masculine. Okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So that's that's the thing. If you that's homophobia, and you don't you don't realize it. You don't realize that's what you what it is, but that's exactly what it is. Right. Because you're looking at somebody who is less masculine in you by your definition, and you're ruling them out, and you're missing out when you do that. Yeah, probably.

SPEAKER_05 49:11

Absolutely. Next level women don't jump right back into a relationship for stability, security, or because of their insecurity, they don't fall into the relationship sex trope. This is another podcast episode that we have, but not feeling that they're worthy without a man is is a problem.

SPEAKER_00 49:35

Yeah, you're worthy is based on having a man in your life.

SPEAKER_05 49:38

And so they don't fall directly back into relationships if one ends, or to even start their you know, their date dating journey at any given time. If the man doesn't make your life better in all the ways, unfortunately, I think this is universal for everyone. Talked about this on the podcast before, that unfortunately we have have been born into a world that teaches us that we are incomplete without another, without a partner, without another human being.

SPEAKER_03 50:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 50:08

We we don't know how to be alone, we don't know how to function alone, we don't know how to be happy alone. Men and women in a heterodynamic for different reasons, right?

SPEAKER_03 50:16

Right.

SPEAKER_05 50:16

But women also struggle to to be alone sometimes. They do way better than men, I think, in this regard. But there are a lot of not next level women who struggle and they get right back into a relationship. It's usually a shitty one, or they usually plug into a guy and then have to find out the hard way, like, oh, he he he ended up being a piece of shit. And so they they don't, they're not okay alone, you know? They always are those girls in high school that always had to have a boyfriend. That's insecurity.

SPEAKER_00 50:50

Yeah, and they're willing to do just about anything to get the boyfriend.

SPEAKER_05 50:53

Exactly. Next level women don't carry all the responsibility for safe sex.

SPEAKER_00 51:00

Yeah, this was a pet peeve that we talked about in it was in next level men, wasn't it, where I said don't supply the condoms, don't do all of that. Yeah, I mean, and we talked about how if you are you can be next level and still have that as a fail-safe, but that ought to be a major fucking red flag if you've got a guy who shows up expecting sex without without taking any responsibility.

SPEAKER_05 51:22

This is the problem with it.

SPEAKER_00 51:23

That's that's a one strike in your ass.

SPEAKER_05 51:25

Yeah. Women are the ones who can become pregnant, so they are the ones who can become responsible.

SPEAKER_03 51:32

Right.

SPEAKER_05 51:33

But they can't do that without sperm. And so men are actually responsible.

SPEAKER_00 51:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 51:40

So we need to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 51:41

That's where the responsibility 100% lies.

SPEAKER_05 51:43

That has to start.

SPEAKER_00 51:44

No debate on this.

SPEAKER_05 51:46

Women literally can't get pregnant without sperm.

SPEAKER_00 51:48

Right.

SPEAKER_05 51:48

So the responsibility is on the men. If he doesn't take responsibility and sex occurs, then the woman is automatically responsible because the baby is literally growing in her.

SPEAKER_00 52:02

Yeah, she bears the brunt of his irresponsibility.

SPEAKER_05 52:05

That's true.

SPEAKER_00 52:05

So Well, I I'd still say that's some joint responsibility, but the the I mean they had sex.

SPEAKER_05 52:12

If it was unwanted though, that was because he wasn't responsible for his own semen.

SPEAKER_03 52:18

Right.

SPEAKER_05 52:19

So in this way, men like men that don't shoulder any kind of responsibility for safe sex, condoms, right, etc.

SPEAKER_00 52:29

Getting a vasectomy if they need to, yep. Red flag. So exactly.

SPEAKER_05 52:33

Okay, next level women are independent, which doesn't mean they don't want to partner.

unknown 52:38

Right.

SPEAKER_05 52:39

It means they're not dependent. So they don't want a man to take care of them. They want to co-create, they want to partner just like we said at the beginning. With with a man. Alright, in dating, they are flexible, they don't have a super hard agenda. It's the weak women that I see that aren't next level that have a real hard agenda. I as a dating, being out in the dating world, having friends, having just observing, as well as, you know, placing ourselves in those places because we're, you know, dating, sex dating, and relationship coaches.

SPEAKER_03 53:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 53:15

It just is the case that weak, not next level women are not flexible in their dating. They have a hard agenda, and if they don't get anything but that, they are just going crazy. They're not happy, right? And they are just forcing that at every turn.

SPEAKER_00 53:32

Which leads to settling. Which leads to settling.

SPEAKER_05 53:34

Which leads to the relationship sex trope.

SPEAKER_00 53:36

Right.

SPEAKER_05 53:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:37

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_05 53:38

So terrible outcomes, again, not being able to be alone and be okay. That's why they're trying to force this. They're trying to force a partner and a long-term one and a serious one. Wedlocked into marriage, you know. And and that you gotta say, wow, like the insecurity of not only who they are inside or feeling incomplete without another person, but the insecurity they feel about just their life, like their stability or their it's awful, you know. That's a telltale sign in dating. If that's you, you're not next level. They are not in scarcity mode, kind of plays into this, but not really in scarcity mode in in any way, but especially in relationships along the lines of dating.

SPEAKER_00 54:23

Like this is gonna be my last chance. I've got to connect and get exclusive with this guy because uh who knows when I'm gonna find another one.

SPEAKER_05 54:32

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 54:33

And the take the low bar. Yeah, the answer to that is who cares if you don't find another one.

SPEAKER_05 54:39

But next level, but women who aren't next level care. Yeah. That's who.

SPEAKER_00 54:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 54:43

That's why. Alright, they have a level of self-respect. We this is a huge one that we won't go into in depth. Observing people, uh observing women dating, there's such a lack of self-respect out there. It's it's wild. But that is a a big one here. Self-love, self-efficacy, which is kind of the same as self-esteem, another big one, self-esteem. Any next level woman you see out there is not gonna have a low or mid self-esteem.

SPEAKER_00 55:17

Right, right. And and that shows up by how much you're willing to lower your bar if you've got low self-esteem.

SPEAKER_05 55:24

In terms of relationships.

SPEAKER_00 55:25

In terms of relationships. What what low common denominator you're willing to take in a partner is that's that really shows up there.

SPEAKER_05 55:33

Okay, they are not self-doubting, they have very healing self-talk, they don't have negative self-talk.

SPEAKER_00 55:41

Right, they don't berate themselves, they don't, you know, right, they don't call themselves a loser or resilient, they're gonna keep on going. If they have a down day, they're gonna pick back up.

SPEAKER_05 55:51

Okay, next level women don't operate like they only have so many fucks to give. They understand they have unlimited fucks, they're not buying into purity culture or slut shaming.

SPEAKER_00 56:01

Right, so we're talking specifically about they withhold sex because they're afraid they're they've only got so many times they can do that.

SPEAKER_05 56:08

Right, or they're a slut, or they assign too much meaning to sex. That's what we mean. Oh, this has to mean something, or it automatically connects them to the person they had sex. No, it doesn't.

SPEAKER_00 56:18

No, it doesn't.

SPEAKER_05 56:19

It was just like exchanging a handshake, honestly, say goodbye to them the next day and never see them again. Like they, yeah, but there's this, they're stingy with their fucks.

SPEAKER_00 56:27

Because they think it means something and that it's supposed to mean something, and when the rude awakening comes, it's that yeah, he didn't think of it the same way you did. And and then you you get all irate because it's he's not slut-shamed. Right, he's not slut-shamed, but you you get all right because it irate because it meant something to you and it's supposed to mean something to him. Well, guess what? If he treats you that way, it didn't mean anything to him, so whether it should or it shouldn't is beside the point.

SPEAKER_03 56:54

Right.

SPEAKER_00 56:54

It didn't mean anything to him, so why are you making a big fucking or you feel like you only have so many, so it's a big deal that you spent one on this guy.

SPEAKER_03 57:05

Right.

SPEAKER_05 57:06

And it it's just not someone down the street from you fucked ten guys in the time that you fucked one, and nobody knows, cares, or who cares.

SPEAKER_03 57:18

Right.

SPEAKER_05 57:19

And she's got more data than you do, and is further along in understanding her own sexuality, the sexuality of others in general, and she's closer to finding a fuck buddy, a friend with benefit, or a partner if that's what she wants. Right. Then you were.

SPEAKER_00 57:35

She's gathering data on what works and what doesn't, and you're not.

SPEAKER_05 57:39

Yeah, and so she's further ahead miles ahead of you because she's not stingy with her fucks. Yeah. One strike, you're out. This is uh something that I This is a rule you This is one of, yeah, this was a rule that I followed in my dating life. You pass up red flags after the first one, you don't settle, you don't accept shit behavior. It's a one strike, you're out. So if I see one thing, then I'm like, mm-hmm, I don't like that. Or now, granted, that a prerequisite for this is the self-respect, is the self-esteem. Because you have things that are clearly strikes that women don't see as strikes. What is their strike? Is their strike him hitting her? Or is her strike I don't like the way he looked at me? Where what is your strike?

SPEAKER_03 58:30

Right.

SPEAKER_05 58:30

You have the prerequisite is that self-respect and self-esteem. Because when you get to this one, if you have a high level of self-esteem and self-respect, your strikes are actually going to be strikes. Yeah. They're not gonna be way off base. You know, you're you're gonna call a strike a strike. You're gonna you're not gonna make like, well I didn't really swing at that.

SPEAKER_00 58:52

Yeah, and it's you know, it's it's uh justifications for right. It's it's okay, you know. I'll I'll overlook it this time.

SPEAKER_05 59:01

Yeah, I was probably overreacting, you gaslighting yourself.

SPEAKER_00 59:05

You're painting the red flag screen.

SPEAKER_05 59:07

Right. All right. Next level women know what they want, and they don't even date or entertain what they don't.

SPEAKER_00 59:14

Yeah, that's a big one.

SPEAKER_05 59:15

Yeah, huge one. So many women, they'll say what they want, they know what they want, but they'll take anything. But they don't act like they deserve to get that.

SPEAKER_00 59:26

Like the one I know that would that uh you and I talked about was had a certain physical requirement. They had to be so tall. And then she would date, you know, it had to be over six feet tall. But then she would date somebody who's 5'9 or 5'7, and then I'd be like, What are you doing that for? It's not gonna work. You you already told me you have this hard physical barrier, you cannot be attracted to somebody long term who's the same size or shorter than you. So why are you well it might be different this time? And it never fucking was.

SPEAKER_05 59:58

She didn't have the self-respect to say, This is what I want, this is what I'm gonna get, I'm not taking anything less.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:05

It would go four or five dates, maybe, and she'd lose attraction to him. Because that was part of her bridge of attraction.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:13

Yeah. And so it the date went well, maybe they had first date sex, that went okay, but then as more time goes on and she's getting to know him more and more, and then then then maybe the second date sex wasn't as good or something like that. Oh, you know what? He's 5'9. Yeah, that's not gonna work. It never works, it will never work. You gotta uh you gotta put up those boundaries and hold to them.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:37

You gotta know what you want and you gotta believe that you're gonna get them or or not, and it's not the end of the world if you don't, and that gets back to women being able to be alone and not feeling like they're incomplete without a man.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:49

Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:50

So these all kind of go together wonderfully. Alright, here we have a Venn diagram, stay with me. So next level man, next level woman, we have overlap, where just next level people in general have these traits, characteristics, whatever you want to call them. In the overlap, they are balanced between their feminine and masculine energy. We do a whole episode on this.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:16

Yeah, we've got posts out there about it too. You gotta have that balance. You can it can be different in the bedroom. You can have somebody who's more dominant in the bedroom, but but in everyday life polarity in the bedroom can work, but not outside of the bedroom. Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:34

And this is, I think, a huge one for women. And the uh one of the disqualifying factors is that they are not balanced in their feminine and masculine energy. Usually they're too much in their feminine energy because society has wrongly assigned these energies to genders, so masculine, male, feminine, female, and that's not what it is at all. It's not what it's supposed to be.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:01

And if you go back and listen to that episode, we t we break that down. These are traits that anybody can have. You don't have to have a penis to do this certain thing, and you don't have to have a vulva to do the other thing.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:14

It's it's and it's not even more natural for you to be that way, because I'd say I'm more masculine. I tend toward masculinity in myself on any given day, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:26

But the point is And I tend to warn more of the feminine traits on on my any given day. But in the bedroom, it's not that way at all. We have polarity.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:37

But the point is to be well balanced, and I think that there are too many women who are disqualified from being next level because they're too much in their feminine energy and not enough in their masculine energy. Right. The thing that most comes to mind in that masculine energy is assertiveness.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:54

Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:55

Women are not assertive enough. And so go check out that episode or do a deep dive into feminine and masculine energy, realizing that these are not gender specific, these are not gender assigned, that you are supposed to be well balanced within these.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:09

Right. And they don't have to do with tasks. It's not like Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:12

They're not gender role, it's energy.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:14

Yeah. So I I I'm more adept at cooking, so that's a feminine thing. No, it's not. It could be eggs executive, which is a masculine thing. You know, all right.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:24

They are emotionally mature, emotionally intelligent, and emotionally available. This isn't an overlap where everyone can struggle with this and throw themselves out of the running for next level.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:36

And when I talked earlier about there are women that there are also women that aren't next level, and that I dated a lot of not non-next level women, they threw themselves out of the running because they weren't.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:46

Because of this.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:47

Yeah, they didn't have emotional availability, they didn't have emotional maturity. Right. They couldn't hang with me on that level. And so I couldn't do it.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:54

This affects everybody negatively. Alright. Next level women don't fall into the relationship sex trope. We hit on this, but specifically, they don't use or weaponize sex to get a relationship. Or just for any reason. Sex is for her. Right. When she has sex, she's having sex because she wants to have sex or she loves sex, or and what happens in the bedroom is completely for her experience. She's the main character, and we always go back to this. She is the main character in her story. She's not deferring to anyone else, she's not playing best supporting actress, she is her, and she can co-habitate, she can partner, she can co-if you will, with a man. That's what it is. It's it's a a dual ship.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:47

Right. So she's not deferring all of the things. And it's a difference between it's not just being submissive because it's I mean, that's a that's a sexual kind of polarity, but you can still get what you want and be submissive.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:03

Yeah, there's a difference between because I'd say I'm more submissive in the bedroom. Right. Like 80-20 at least.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:09

Right, but you get what you want.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:11

I get exactly what I want, how I want it, and even if I'm, you know, on paper, submissive.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:19

So there's it's an energy.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:21

It's not we have an episode about this too. We we do have one. I remember talking about it, uh, where we I don't remember what it's called, so we'll have to the difference between being submissive feminine and masculine episode that we talk about this because we talk about that whole concept, and I I I use an example of somebody who said, Oh, you know, I'm I'm I'm totally dominant because I'm into cock worship or whatever. You know, it's like, no, that's a submissive move.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:51

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:51

It's it's we did talk about that. Yeah, so so go back and listen to that. We won't divert to because we're getting long.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:57

But just know that there's a difference.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:59

All right. We talked about insecurity. If you've got insecurity problems, you know, everybody has insecurity to a certain degree, but there's a level of confidence and there's a level of self-esteem and self-respect that you have to be at to be next level.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:18

Okay. Does not subscribe to gender roles. Not to say that sometimes those things don't occur because it's more convenient because you're better at one thing, right? Sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:30

But you don't just automatically subscribe to assigned gender roles.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:34

Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:35

And the last thing in this overlapped area is that you've explored your sexuality. This is a real big one. Because when you haven't, you've just taken someone's word for it that like we were all born into this world and just told that we're straight, just by default.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:54

Well, clearly that's not, you know, the case.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:57

That's not the reality of things.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:58

That is what someone told us, just like I was born into a religion and told that these are your beliefs.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:05

You're gonna marry a man, you're gonna these are your beliefs.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:08

That that's exactly like saying that, and then lo and behold, I I grow up and realize these are your beliefs. These these aren't my beliefs. I mean, I tried that and that's not what I think that being born into a world and just automatically being told that you're straight, you have a job to do. And what it is is to and you might be straight, you might come away with that answer, but your job is to go exploring all the things so that you can actually find out what your sexual orientation and preferences are.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:39

And if you're turned off by the thought of this, ask yourself why.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:44

That's internalized, that's not natural to be completely someone has turned you off to that. I've had to I I've dealt with a little bit of those feelings myself when I went down this road. But just if you can innocently go back to just being a kid and just understanding what it was like to explore, to to look under a rock, to to study a leaf, to you know, some of these natural things.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:14

To watch how uh a stream moved down through rocks. Like simple innocent exploration.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:22

Collecting input and data.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:24

And yeah, and go down that that road. And I don't think that someone can know very well, especially I think that someone can know, like, for instance, if they're gay, because that's on the other end of the spectrum of the straight, but when you're born and told automatically that you're straight, I don't think those people can know truly what their sexual orientation truly is until they're gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:48

You gotta at least explore the feelings and your thoughts and yeah, to start there. So just to end this, this is a recap, I want to go back to what we talked about to that high-level definition of a next level woman, just because we talked about a lot of details here, and this is just gonna wrap it up in a sort of a bulletized format so that you actually can you know, as you listen back to this, you'll be able to see this is where that falls in. So a next level woman is deeply embodied, emotionally honest, erotically alive, relationally conscious, sovereign without being guarded, feminine without becoming dependent, powerful without becoming controlling. She doesn't need to win against men, she doesn't need to be rescued by men, she wants to co-create with men.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:39

In this podcast, we often use the terms women and men when discussing relationships and sexual dynamics. However, we want to acknowledge that not all women have vulvas and not all vulva owners identify as women. Similarly, not all men have penises, and not all penis owners identify as men. Our podcast welcomes individuals and couples of all orientations and identities. We aim for inclusivity, but fully acknowledge that our attempts will never be perfect. We are learning and adopting new language as humankind and our world evolves.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:11

Hey, just a heads up, we're not therapists or doctors, but we do coach people on sex, dating, and relationships based on our own experiences, research, and the wild stories we've heard and lived along the way. What we care is for your inspiration and education, but it's not a substitute for professional medical or mental health advice. If you're facing a serious issue, please take out the right kind of support. In the meantime, keep listening, stay curious, and let's keep the conversations going.