94. Why Happy Couples Stop Having Great Sex (Or Why Any Couple Stops Having Sex)

Why do happy couples stop having great sex? Is it low libido, lack of attraction, stress, kids... or is something else happening beneath the surface?

In this episode, we unpack why sexual desire fades in long-term relationships, why emotional safety and communication matter more than most couples realize, and how to rebuild intimacy before a relationship turns into a dead bedroom. If you've ever wondered why you still love your partner but don't want sex the way you used to, this conversation is for you.

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:12

This is the Cliteral Truth.

SPEAKER_00 0:16

The podcast where we sit around naked and talk about sex, dating, and relationships. Alright, we're talking today kind of about why good sex dies in good relationships, but you could also just say why sex dies in relationships.

SPEAKER_02 0:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

The sex doesn't have to be good, the relationship doesn't have to be good. And honestly, like thinking of a past relationship that I a long relationship that I was in, the relationship eventually died, but the sex never did, because it's like your girl's gotta get laid. Like I got, you know, like w so I had sex up until the point that the relationship ended, and so that that wasn't really a thing for me. But a lot of times it is, right? Like people are in relationships and they're f seeing that their sex is waning, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:11

That's probably the more common scenario.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Sure. Yeah, I think I'm a bit of an anomaly.

SPEAKER_06 1:16

Yeah, because you're a little more sex positive, sex oriented than a lot of people. A lot of people's sex orientation, or not orientation, their positivity or negativity follows how well their relationship goes.

SPEAKER_00 1:29

That's yeah, that's super interesting to me because that's not but that's not your take either. No, we it's sex is our favorite thing to do, and regardless of how well our relationship is going, it's just gonna be that way, right? Right, because I think you're right. I think that really is true for some people. Like, as well as the relationship is going is kind of their attitude toward sex, maybe.

SPEAKER_06 1:58

I think so.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

And then there's people that could relate to what we said too, though.

SPEAKER_06 2:02

I think so. So it's it could be either or, but I think it's, you know, not to dig digress too far into a different topic, but it's it's like sex for a lot of people in relationships, I think, is kind of a a nice to have, or it's uh we do that as part of the relationship, but it's not their main driver. I talking to people, that's what I that's what I find. Well, I think this is what what we even find a lot of times in people we talk to or coach or whatever, the sex was good, but it's not anymore. But it's typically an after-effect of the relationship having problems.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

Uh-huh. I would not, for me, want to conflate the I I would not want to base the importance of sex on how well my relationship was going. And I didn't know what to do. Well, and I agree that I didn't, I couldn't. Well, I was like, well, my relationship is shit, but I'm still gonna have sex because I gotta do it. Well, like and based on I guess it depends on uh how your libido or what your drive is like, if you really enjoy sex or not, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:08

Right. Well, and I think there's a a component in there that's what we also teach is separating sex from intimacy.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:15

For people who can't uncouple that for whatever reason, sex is going to follow intimacy. Okay. So if the intimacy is not there, the sex is not going to be there because they are uncontrollably conjoined.

SPEAKER_00 3:28

We should tell our listeners how important it is to decouple sex and intimacy. Yes. But, you know, and some people could be like, well, I just couldn't have sex with someone that I was like, you know, not that that I was going to split from, or if I knew I was, or if I if it wasn't going well, or if it wasn't it. Again, and you know what? I will say that being Mormon coming from our religion, i at the time, you don't think divorce is an option. Right. It's just not even I I mean, the D word, that was like a bad word in my house growing up that we never uttered, you know? Right. And so you don't feel that that's an option. You feel trapped, you feel stuck, and so you're like, well, this is the person that I no matter how badly things are going, or how mid the relationship is, or if you ever talk, or if you're friends or not, doesn't matter. Like this is your person that you can that you are allowed to have sex with, and if you choose not to, you're just out. Right. You're just not having any.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

And so people could be like, well, you know, how could you have sex with someone that you, you know, weren't really feeling, you know, and that's why. So I still did.

SPEAKER_06 4:44

Well, and you could also, I think key to that still is you've got to be able to uncoup or decouple sex from intimacy. Because if you can't do that, I think people will still have a hard time with that.

SPEAKER_00 4:54

Well, and that's what I was doing. Like, it wasn't intimate, right? It was kind of a stuck in the rut, get the job done, we know what works, kind of experience that was.

SPEAKER_06 5:05

It's like cooking dinner, you gotta do it.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

Yeah, it's like hand me the salt, please, pass the potatoes. Like it it's it wasn't passionate, it wasn't intimate, it wasn't romantic, it wasn't it it was mechanical almost, and just getting a job done.

SPEAKER_04 5:23

Which is okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

It was enjoyable for us individually, I think, but it it had nothing to do with each other.

SPEAKER_06 5:30

Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

I will say that.

SPEAKER_06 5:31

Right. So and there's nothing wrong with that. There's honestly nothing wrong with that. I think it becomes a bigger problem when you are unable to decouple sex from intimacy, and so it's like, well, if I can't be intimate, I'm not having sex, and so now I just don't get it in that scenario that we talked about, that religious or that monogamous relationship. Whether it's religious or not, it's monogamous.

SPEAKER_00 5:50

There's nothing wrong with that in the context of where I was at at that time. Exactly. I mean, it's not ideal to passion in your sex.

SPEAKER_06 5:58

It's not ideal in relationships. But given the situation. Given the situation, but also from the concept of decoupling sex and intimacy, it's okay that your sex isn't fucking intimate.

SPEAKER_00 6:10

Oh yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_06 6:12

Because just like cooking dinner, you need to have you need to have it.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Would I have liked some passion in our sex, sure. But the real problem was that our relationship sucked.

SPEAKER_06 6:20

Right. Right, exactly. But you didn't let that stop you from having sex, nor did he.

SPEAKER_00 6:25

No.

SPEAKER_06 6:26

And and a lot of people, I'm just saying, I think a lot of people out there would allow that to stop them.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

And I honestly don't know if for him without dinner. I honestly don't know for him because uh he's not the one that wanted to split, first of all. And second of all, I was more of the initiator in that relationship. So I honestly don't know.

SPEAKER_06 6:45

That's how it was with me, too. I think I was the initiator.

SPEAKER_00 6:48

Just wanted to make the point that, like, whether the sex is good, whether the relationship is good, we're mainly just talking about when when sex kind of goes out the window in your relationship that you're in, whether it's good, mid, bad, whatever.

SPEAKER_05 7:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 7:06

Right? And we've got some points that we're gonna hit on that I really related to. Even though uh, you know, I sex didn't end in my mid-relationship. It kept on going till the end, but I really relate to these points that we're gonna bring up.

SPEAKER_06 7:23

So the first point, we're gonna get into those points.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 7:27

Alright. First point is comfort is not desire.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

The word comfort really stood out to me because you can be in like the most mid mediocre, like mundane, boring, not best friends relationship, functional, etc.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

And it's comfortable. Right. It gets com like humans are very adaptable, like unless there's like something um, you know, really tumultuous happening, like abuse or something like that, like you can be in a bad relationship or a mid-relationship, a boring relationship, and it can be very comfortable, and you can become very comfortable. And I think that's where a lot of couples get stuck in a rut, either sexually or in their relationship, or both.

SPEAKER_06 8:22

Right. Because it's just comfortable, it's just comfortable, it's just comfortable, yeah. And so But I'm not necessarily attracted to this person, right?

SPEAKER_00 8:29

I'm comfortable with I'm comfortable with this person, but I don't desire this person.

SPEAKER_06 8:32

Don't desire.

SPEAKER_00 8:33

That is so many couples, I think. It was me, uh-huh, and I think it was you.

SPEAKER_03 8:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

Where we can be comfortable with a lot of people.

SPEAKER_02 8:42

Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

That doesn't mean that this is good. No, we're good.

SPEAKER_02 8:46

Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

It doesn't mean you're happy, doesn't mean you like it. It doesn't mean that, oh God, there couldn't be someone out there for you that you desire to wake up to, or you can't wait to see them when they come home from wherever.

SPEAKER_06 9:01

Yeah. You know, and so I know that happened for me because I'm looking at her.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

I can relate to well, and I know the difference now too.

SPEAKER_06 9:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:10

Like, and sometimes when you don't know the difference because you haven't had a relationship that that is like that, where you're like, Man, I want this person every day. Like, I can't wait till they get home so I can tell them about this or that or whatever, or just be with them, like you know.

SPEAKER_06 9:23

And that's and that's comfortable too.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Right. I was just gonna say, that's comfortable too, but there's a lot of desire happening. And I think that you could have the other situation where, well, this is comfortable, there's nothing really wrong. I mean, I'm I'm safe, I'm fine, like, mm-hmm, okay. But it's it's not passionate, like there's no desire there for that other person. They're just you're just in your comfort zone.

SPEAKER_06 9:49

Yeah. The next point is familiarity can reduce novelty.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

It's a struggle for like we were just we've got a little variance. Yeah, and and I think, I mean, we've got a little note in our phone where we were just talking about like, hey, what are our biggest barriers to in our relationship?

SPEAKER_03 10:10

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:10

And especially towards sex, right?

SPEAKER_03 10:12

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

And we the number one thing is novelty. How do we keep things new? And so that you know, arousal really thrives on newness.

SPEAKER_03 10:24

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

You don't need and that's why we have this episode called First Time Sex, and it it's kind of uh one of our popular ones. It talks about how the first time you have sex with someone, not the first time you ever have sex, but the first time you have sex with someone else as a new partner, yeah, it's pretty fucking easy to get off.

SPEAKER_02 10:41

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

No matter what the attraction really is, or and it's because of the novelty. Right. It's because it's new, this person is new, they're experiencing you for the first time, which is also hot. Like there's just and so I think novelty is is our biggest barrier because now it's like, hey, we're really familiar with each other, we've got to try to to infuse novelty in our situation.

SPEAKER_06 11:10

Well, and we had somebody we were coaching once that was like every time she had sex with somebody new, it was the best ever. It was the best ever. I remember saying to her, that's what you said about the last guy and the guy before that, and the guy Well, this is different. No, what she was experiencing was the novelty of first-time sex or new sex.

SPEAKER_00 11:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 11:33

With a new partner.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

Just novelty. It had nothing to do with it being great. That guy was.

SPEAKER_06 11:38

Yeah, because then when I'd question her on those other ones, she'd be like, Well, he wasn't that great.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

So it's like, hey, you okay, you gotta start ranking these. Yeah, they can't all be number one.

SPEAKER_06 11:48

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 11:48

You just love novelty. You're just a novelty whore.

SPEAKER_06 11:51

Exactly. So if that resonates with you and you're listening, exactly. I mean, that could be that.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

I mean, but you you need to realize what what it is that you uh and say, oh, hey, well, I really highly value novelty. Okay, maybe I don't want to be in a uh long-term you know committed relationship with one person because of that.

SPEAKER_04 12:09

Because novelty is such a big deal for people.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

Yeah, that could be the case. Yeah, in which case relationship types.

SPEAKER_06 12:14

Exactly. I was just gonna say that.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

Really works out for you there.

SPEAKER_06 12:16

Yeah, and and so yeah, so this is the point. Familiar familiarity, it's a hard word for me. No, I hate that word. Can reduce novelty. So it and it well, that's what we find it's like.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

It automatically Yeah, it automatically will you have to like work three times as hard, four times as hard, what five times as hard.

SPEAKER_06 12:36

What if you get in the same position every time, do the same thing, uh eventually it's like you get used to anything. You do get used to anything. You get used to your greatest fear, your greatest satisfaction, your greatest pleasure becomes pretty mundane in every day.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

But I've got to bring up this great example from last night. Like, because there's also nothing wrong with doing what you know is your favorite or works. Right. Or, you know, but you but this is a great example of doing that, but infusing some novelty, something different. So we're having sex last night, we're in a lot of our favorite positions, you know, because they're our favorites, we like them, whatever. We're good with trying something new every once in a while or whatever, but we always get back to some of the same positions because they are the most efficient for us, right?

SPEAKER_03 13:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

But and so that's happening. Things are going well, but I think things really went through the roof when okay, let's see what I'm laying on the on the bed, you're standing at the edge of the bed, but my ass is like at the edge of the bed, so like what that like kind of a butterfly position. If you're not familiar with butterfly, anyway. And I have a toy, you're not even in me, you're doing your own thing, stroking yourself.

SPEAKER_02 13:55

Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

And which if you honestly, like, if you're if you don't do that sometimes, like you you kind of do your own like mutual masturbation, that can be really hot.

SPEAKER_03 14:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

So just side note, if you're not doing that in your sexual sessions, experiences, whatever, give that a go because there is something hot about doing like yourself, but with your partner.

SPEAKER_06 14:23

Yeah, because part of that in my mind is what is she experiencing? What is she feeling right now? You know, it's like so that's sort of an anticipation, sort of to be able to watch your partner like while you're yeah, doing your own thing too. Like, it's so hot, but like to be out of your ego to say, oh, she's having fun without me. I mean, yeah Well, you are too though, like exactly. Exactly. But I think a lot of people, particularly men, are gonna be like, oh, if if I'm not the one responsible for her pleasure, uh she's gonna get sick of me or something. So don't not to sidetrack, but don't worry about that. You gotta be open.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

And we were we were open, honestly. Uh what this is real talk. I the the lube that we were using was a little bit stingy inside of me, which happens sometimes. We have known that like little micro abrasions can happen all the time in sex, with toys, with dicks, with yeah, what like literally you don't need any reason to feel the burn have some some uh little micro uh what do they call it? Micro cuts, micro abrasions in there, and so that's like normal if and so could even be cyclical if the And even the mildest lube's yeah, and so at the time I was like, I just need a little break, and so that's what we that's why we were doing that, but that's not the only reason to do that. I'm just saying like it's super hot and you should do it anyway. But the thing that was novel that you did was okay, you came on me, which I love coming on my chest and stomach like that. That I don't that's my thing.

SPEAKER_03 15:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:56

The novel part about it was then you took your hand and like massaged it into my body like it was like fucking massage oil.

SPEAKER_06 16:06

Well, it is probably the slickest substance in it. But yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Like, but I went crazy. So it's like, hey, we've done this a million times, yeah. Uh we like doing this, but like, what can you do that adds a little something to the situation, right? Like this is something we do often, honestly, in this position, this mutual masturbation, yeah, in this position, where I'm hoping that you're gonna come on my tits and my stomach or whatever, which you do, but then what really threw it over the edge was the novelty for me of what you did next.

SPEAKER_04 16:43

The rubbing and the rubber.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

So think about okay, the situations that you, if you're you know, in a long-term committed partnership with a lot of familiarity and you're like, oh man, like what can I do? Like, you know, things are we're stuck in a rut. Yeah, you know. Uh we have another podcast episode called uh Sex Positions and Staving Off Boredom. It's very popular. But if you feel that way, think of little little things. It doesn't have to be this whole huge new position or you know, anything like that. It could be like the littlest thing. Can I touch her there when I'm doing this? I've never done that before.

SPEAKER_03 17:20

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

Can I whatever it is, you know, it it could be with touching, it could be something you say, yeah, it can be this thing that you did that you've never done before, and I was like, fuck. It killed me. Like, like I we were done after that. We were fucking done after that because I wiped my ass with well, you did, but I was like, I was exhausted. Yeah, I was exhausted after that, and so it was like it was it was just such a like exclamation point on the session, you know, to end it that way.

SPEAKER_06 17:58

Well, yeah, and I I want to back up too because I think there was some build in this whole thing too to that it got us to that point too, because we started a little bit differently, and that you you laid down on the bed and put your arms up, and I and uh on the bed I have these D rings for Yeah, we had novelty in a couple of ways because I was like, I need a little help getting getting more warmed up, getting in the mood a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

I'm the desire is always there for me, typically. It's that I need my body to catch up with that, or I I just need a little help, you know.

SPEAKER_06 18:27

Yeah, so that you just were laying there, you put your hands above your head, and I saw one of those D rings and I went and got the cuffs and kind of strapped your hands up above the head.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

Because that's still novel for us. We don't do it that often. No, we don't. So when we do, it kind of packs a punch, right?

SPEAKER_06 18:41

And then if you got the blindfold for anticipation, and then you said, actually, I want to see this.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

I yeah, you're more of a fan of the blindfold than me. I like to watch what's going on. Yeah, I like to watch what's going on too.

SPEAKER_06 18:53

I just feel like some people like to be surprised by whatever's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00 18:57

So I sometimes I go to that, but no, I like to watch that's hotter for me.

SPEAKER_06 19:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:02

So same with me, even if I'm kind of very visual, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

So uh but yeah, we we started with some novelty and then we ended with some novelty, and uh, it was a banger of a session, I'm telling you. So little things.

SPEAKER_06 19:14

Yeah, but in the middle we went to one of our standard positions, and you had like this incredibly long orgasm. And I think that had to do with the build up at the beginning.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

Oh, you think that that, yeah, so your novelty, whatever these little things that you're like, hey, okay, how can I make it different? I'm gonna make it different, but we're gonna do the tie-up this time. And that can even if you're in one of your familiar situations that you're always in, you know, down the road in the sex session, it may it makes a difference, right?

SPEAKER_06 19:44

So it makes it makes the regular even better.

SPEAKER_00 19:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 19:48

So that's the thing.

SPEAKER_00 19:49

That was a super fucking long orgasm.

SPEAKER_06 19:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:53

And we I have a like I had to look at the time because I'm like, okay, female orgasm anywhere from like, what it was, 15 to like 50 seconds or something. I'm like, but also 50. That was on the higher end of the spectrum of time.

SPEAKER_06 20:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

Really good one.

SPEAKER_06 20:10

So the other thing, just to round out this topic that it was on my mind, is experiment a little bit, play a little bit, get out of your rut. Because and and it could be lots of things. It could be a new toy, it could be uh looking at a list of kinks and just letting yourself experiment and say, would I be into that? Would I be into exhibitionism? What yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

If you're a guy And hopefully you're with a partner that's open to surprises. Like if you look at that kink list or you look at or you you've heard about something and you're like, or or even you take our example, like, hey, like we like messy sex though. Hey, rub rub your rub your cum all over tits. Like what like we we love messy sex and s some people don't, but you think about your partner and would they be open to to some of this, and if they're not in you are like you gotta think about compatibility though, too. Yeah, because adventurer being adventurous in the bedroom, I'd say, is step two on the bridge five sexual compatibility.

SPEAKER_03 21:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:18

If you've got your frequency down and you're like, yeah, like we don't turn each other down, we want it as much as you know, pretty much, you know, we're on the same frequency about as how often we want sex, then you go to step two though, and you got activity, and it's like, do you like to do the same things? Is your adventure level about the same? You know, you might not always score on the same, like, mm, I don't like that, and she does but your adventure level is about the same, right? But if you're with someone who you're like, I am really erotic and adventurous, and my partner's not, he or she or they is just like the the in you're in a rut. You're you're stuck, you know. Doing the same kind of things over and over again. And if you feel like stifled or I can't breathe, I I gotta I gotta get out of this box. I gotta do you know, then yeah, you gotta think of compatibility though too. Yeah. But hopefully that's not the ish here.

SPEAKER_06 22:16

Right. But and always keep it safe, but sometimes surprise a little bit. I've done that before. It's like, I read about this thing, I'm gonna just try this. And it wasn't gonna involve any danger or insecurity or anything like that.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

Right. Because you always want to be consensual, but there's a there's something to be said about surprises.

SPEAKER_06 22:35

Yeah, maybe it's something I say or something, just a little twist I do or something like that. But then it's incumbent that you also, if you're gonna try that and have a little surprise, that you have a morning after conversation too to work to talk about did this work for you or not. Because sometimes I've been like, I don't know if this is gonna work at all, and it is look goes crazy good. And other times it's like it falls flat, and I thought it's gonna go okay, but if we didn't talk about that after, yeah. If we talk about it after, then I know, okay, that's just not something you're into. Cool. You know, or here's trying it out for fun.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

Or I want you to try it again, but here's why it didn't work this one time. Like, whatever, you know, then that's the whole thing about communication. You don't make assumptions.

SPEAKER_03 23:16

Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

We episode four, the morning after conversation.

SPEAKER_03 23:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

After a session, talk about it.

SPEAKER_03 23:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:23

And and that's your time to say what worked, say what didn't, say what, you know.

SPEAKER_03 23:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

And I think that you can also do things like last night, you you knew that was working for me. I mean, there was no denial. Like, I'm we're not gonna have like a morning after conversation this morning. I'm like, so last night didn't really work out well for me. I didn't really enjoy it, like shit. You you'll know.

SPEAKER_06 23:49

Oh, so then I would want to five white that because I'm like, it obviously works, so why do you say it's not why do you not want it anymore? Yeah, sometimes you know what works and what doesn't, but so so and maybe it wasn't the thing, maybe it's something else, but again, that's something to communicate about. Because I could say, well, I was rubbing that on you, and it seemed to throw you into this major orgasm, but you might say, Well, it was actually something else. But yeah, but then we're communicating about it.

SPEAKER_00 24:14

Yeah, just total open communication because there might be something where you're like, Man, I really liked this, but if you would have done that, probably would have even been better. Exactly. Or, you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_04 24:24

So communicate.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

It's just like getting to the best case scenario for you and your situation.

SPEAKER_03 24:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

But like, in terms of last night, I'm just curious, when you were doing what you were doing to add whatever novelty you were adding, did you Yeah, did you feel like, hmm, I don't know if this is gonna work, but we're gonna go for it?

SPEAKER_06 24:43

Or Yeah, I th uh I had that kind of split second thought, but I thought On the tying or No, on the rubbing.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

On the rubbing.

SPEAKER_06 24:51

On the rubbing. Yeah, because it was like, well, it's there and she I like it on there.

SPEAKER_00 24:59

Do I like it rubbed in?

SPEAKER_06 25:01

It had an impact when you felt it hit you, and so I thought, well, I'm just gonna rub it. Oh yeah, I love that feeling. Because that way I get to touch your breasts and things like that, which I know you also like, but the whole thing together just like blew it open.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

Yeah, yeah. I I like I like, you know, when it hits or whatever. That that's 'cause it's a it's a it's a it's a drop, it's a spill. It's it's not just uh let me rub lotion on your you know, that's different. It's a it's a shock, it's a yeah, yeah, it's a little something that and it's not you know forceful or anything, you know. That'd be cool if it was a little more forceful.

SPEAKER_06 25:34

But you've been anticipating and there it is.

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Yeah, you know and it's warm, and it feels good because it's it's kind of toasty.

SPEAKER_03 25:41

Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:41

And then like to rub that all in was like it it just was sensual. It was it was like massage, it was it was like warm massage oil.

SPEAKER_06 25:51

And as I was ramping up in my climax, I mean that just was like So yeah, and so that's one of those things where I say sometimes you're gonna do something to spare the moment, or maybe you come with that surprise and no no pun intended, but you you have that surprise and you you go for it, and it may work and it may not. But it's not like I'm I'm I wasn't gonna stop and say, hey, I'm gonna rub this on you. It's like delivering the birthday present and saying, here's your cookie sheet, grandma. You know? It's like it's all wrapped up. It's like, well, okay, I'll unwrap that next week since I know what it is. You know, it's it's a vibe killer.

SPEAKER_00 26:27

It's a vibe killer. What is worse? What's worse like I've gotta put my opinion in here, what's worse? Giving a surprise, and kind of maybe it flops, yeah. Maybe maybe it doesn't work out.

SPEAKER_02 26:39

Right.

SPEAKER_00 26:40

Or being fucking boring in the bedroom. Like, what's worse?

SPEAKER_05 26:43

Being fucking boring in the bedroom.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

You know? So it's like, hey, okay, like, and we've been in situations where maybe surprises uh you don't know it's coming, and you're like, oh shit, like when I, you know, slapped your ear that one time.

SPEAKER_03 26:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:59

And you're like, okay, wait, like we need to have a morning conversation about like maybe on the gear.

SPEAKER_02 27:07

Not so much here, maybe here.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

So, you know, that was a surprise that came at you that didn't really work out super well, but we we made adjustments. Right.

SPEAKER_06 27:22

Because I'm like, well, I in its own little way, it was still hot. It hurt.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

But we're not into pain, actually.

SPEAKER_04 27:29

But like a little aggressive act of it I liked. It's just where it's like, I think what you liked is my aggression because I don't take that dominant position very often.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

And so when I do, it packs a punch.

SPEAKER_04 27:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:48

And that's what you liked, it just it just hit wrong.

SPEAKER_04 27:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 27:52

Exactly. Alright, well, so that was point two. Should we go to point three? Yes. We spent a good long time on point two. Yes. Point three is great couples intentionally create tension. Which we kind of touched on on what we did.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

Yeah, we're getting back to creating novelty. Now, I mean, you could argue, well, novelty is not the same as tension. You're right. Novelty is cre is uh doing something new. Let's add this thing in, let's let's do, let's add that surprise, right? Tension, we we've got some words that are gonna help us out here, though.

SPEAKER_02 28:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

Because, okay, we're talking about great couples intentionally create tension. Okay, what happened when you don't have any tension? Again, boring. Boring. It's so boring. Yeah. Right? And there's no anticipation.

SPEAKER_06 28:40

It's just sitting there on the table as opposed to one you stretch to tension. There's no anticipation. Yeah, there's this potential anticipation.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

So you're like, what's gonna happen? Is it gonna snap? Is it going to fly off like a like a rubber band gun? What's you know, is it gonna make a noise? Is it gonna snap? You know, whatever. And so we've got anticipation is one of our our words. How can you have that anticipation? Sometimes, like, I lot with sex, like I like a combination of planned and spontaneous sex. And the reason is because with the planned sex, which a lot of people poo-poo on, yeah, fuck, there's anticipation. It's like, I don't know I'm getting fucked on Friday night, like or it's usually we're more like daily people, so that's not it's more like tonight, right? I'm getting fucked tonight, you know, but like whatever, however long your anticipation is based on you guys' frequency, like great. But if you both have this understanding, like, hey, yeah, we're we're doing that tonight, right? Or whatever, then you have that anticipation. Whereas with spontaneous sex, which is also awesome, there's where your surprise factor comes in.

SPEAKER_03 29:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

And it's not necessarily tension, it's a surprise, but it's a fucking good one. And so I I honestly think that couples should have both spontaneous and planned sex. And sometimes spontaneous, it's like, I don't want just spontaneous sex because I don't want to be waiting around for the right thing. Yeah, the when that's gonna happen. What if that doesn't meet my frequency needs?

SPEAKER_03 30:13

Right.

SPEAKER_00 30:13

So I'm not gonna be spontaneous just all the time. I'm gonna I'm gonna plan so that I'm getting my frequency, I'm getting my needs met in terms of my frequency, and if there's any spontaneous, it's just like icing on a cake. That's just extra shit, right?

SPEAKER_06 30:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:30

And so uh that that's how I like it.

SPEAKER_06 30:34

You know, we talk about like some of the anticipation we talked about the blindfold earlier, and I've used that in the past really successfully because there is this anticipation, and it also touches on mystery a little bit. In that the people who like it like it, but I wouldn't use it every time. Yeah. But I do believe that uh blindfold is still one of the best sex toys ever for this reason, because they can't see what's coming. And if you have enough of you got a lot of toys, you know, it's like You got a lot of shit.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

We got a lot of we've got some BDSM stuff.

SPEAKER_06 31:08

So it's like if I put uh one of those Wartenberg wheels, right, you know, that's usually used for physical therapy, but it's the little pointy wheels that you you you just lightly rub that. You don't know that's coming, you put that on a nipple or you put that on a the b back of a leg, inner thigh or yeah, whatever. Inner thigh. The anticipation will just build and build and build and build. And so so that's something you can use too in the middle of this.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

And for me, I mean it's hotter being tied up, so being out of control, but watching. Right. Because there's nothing you're gonna fucking do about it. That's right. You're tied up, but you get to you're seeing everything, right? Like that is hotter for me, and that might be because maybe I've got some voyeur in me. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 31:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

But yeah, so but I I agree that just anticipation how whatever way it works for you, get it into your relationship.

SPEAKER_06 31:58

And if you haven't, invest in some toys and some tools and some. I mean, there are feathers, there's however you want to do it.

SPEAKER_00 32:05

You can send a spicy text, you can put a stick it note, a post-it note on the mirror that says meet me here, like meet me tonight at no whatever. However, you want to do it, like be creative.

SPEAKER_02 32:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:19

So mystery is another one of our words helping us create this tension.

SPEAKER_02 32:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:25

So maybe not exactly knowing what's gonna happen. If you put that post-it note on the mirror saying, Meet me in bed at 10 or whatever the time is, like, okay, what okay. Are we changing sheets?

SPEAKER_06 32:41

Are we putting are we getting the sheets out of the laundry and putting them on the bed?

SPEAKER_00 32:44

Maybe that's a bad example. But I just No, it's not a bad example. I'm just saying, like, you don't say what you're gonna do. You don't say, you know, what you have to do.

SPEAKER_06 32:52

Because if you say meet me in bed at 9 o'clock, you kind of have that anticipation that that's what it's gonna mean. But it's you don't know for sure. It could be changing the sheets, whatever. But if it is changing the sheets, don't keep using that one, because that's gonna God no.

SPEAKER_00 33:07

Now we're back to boring. You better have sex after you change the sheets.

SPEAKER_06 33:11

You better get those sheets messy.

SPEAKER_00 33:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 33:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

Alright, playfulness creates tension. Yeah. Oh, it does. Because then now I'm thinking of our episode called Foreplay All Day.

SPEAKER_05 33:24

Oh, yes. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

Where that's a lot of that's a lot of our foreplay all day, probably. Yeah. You know? It's more playful, probably, than it is steamy. I I don't know. Right. I mean, you got you got your moments.

SPEAKER_06 33:38

So there's steamy moments in the grocery store where you know make outs halfway through the day. We're making out over the grocery basket or you know, whatever. You're at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

But a lot of it is playful, like, you know.

SPEAKER_06 33:50

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 33:50

Uh and and that's little suggestive jokes or comments.

SPEAKER_05 33:54

Works for us. So I think uh it builds the anticipation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:59

So these are all compounding on top of each other. So and and when you're in a place like so we're at a party last night, right?

SPEAKER_02 34:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:09

First of all, I mean we we fucked first. Because we're not stupid, you know.

SPEAKER_04 34:14

It's like we're gonna come home late.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

We're gonna come home, I'm gonna like, you know, you're gonna be tired because you drank, or you know, you you're whatever. Yeah, it's it's 10, it's 10 30. It's like how how good is your sex gonna be, really, honestly? So it's like we are I don't know, we we're not the late like we don't stay up late. We're not those people unless we're you know at a show or something. So we we fucked first. But so what? You you're at this party though, and let's say we didn't, and you're in you're not gonna fuck there. You're you're at this public place, you're fully clothed, there's birthday cake, and you know, live band, and you know, it's fun, it's fun, right? But like in those instances where it's like, hmm, okay, we're not gonna fuck here. We don't have an opportunity to fuck here, but you know, you you've got to foreplay you know, every everyone said it. Your foreplay starts right after your sex ends for the next time.

SPEAKER_02 35:13

Right.

SPEAKER_00 35:14

Right? Because it's hard to just generate that out of nothing.

SPEAKER_02 35:17

Right.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

So you want to keep that going, that momentum going. And so at this party where there's no chance of fucking though, be playful.

SPEAKER_03 35:25

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 35:25

Build anticipation for the next time that you're because you're in this fun environment, like and yeah, you can do it in in places like the grocery store too, where it's like this is the most boring fucking place ever. Or whatever. Right. But like take the opportunity wherever you are to do what you can. And we're at this birthday party with a bunch of sex positive people that are drinking and having a good time. Like, that's a perfect venue for really foreplaying, right? Right.

SPEAKER_06 35:53

And and and and it could be something that like as an example. Last night we're talking to somebody, and I'm pretty tall, so my head can go over your head. Sometimes you'll position yourself in front of me and grab my hands and put them on your hips or your stomach or something like that, you know. Like last night you were a little bit cold, and so I could wrap my arms around you. It just felt close and it's that was that was still foreplay to me.

SPEAKER_00 36:16

Oh, totally. Yeah. Any kind of form of touching, you know, cuddling, whatever. Uh there were people dancing together to the live music, whatever, we're drinking together. And so, you know, if you're like one of those people that well, I could never in the grocery store. First of all, I'm not gonna challenge you.

SPEAKER_02 36:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

Like, hey, you know, maybe pull the stick out of your ass and live a little.

SPEAKER_06 36:39

Like, you know, well, because one of the things that that I've long ago decided is the chances of anybody saying something to me are pretty rare.

SPEAKER_00 36:49

You know, who made them the LED?

SPEAKER_06 36:51

Get a room or something like that. Yeah. Like, fuck you.

SPEAKER_00 36:53

Exactly. We're gonna make it out in the grocery store.

SPEAKER_06 36:55

If they did, I'm still gonna do it anyway, but nobody does.

SPEAKER_00 36:57

Yeah, nobody ever does. In the grocery store, the mall or whatever, Costco.

SPEAKER_06 37:04

It might be as exactly. It might be offensive to somebody who has a stick up their ass, like you say.

SPEAKER_00 37:09

Oh, yeah, you're gonna get looks from uh certain people, and then you're probably gonna be like, man, wish I was them from other people.

SPEAKER_06 37:15

I remember some some joke I read or a meme or something where it was like, some guys like my wife dropped a paint roller at the in the paint department at the Home Depot and had to bend over to get it, and now we're banned from Home Depot from that would be us. Oh, we'd be fucked. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:31

Well, we're always fantasizing, walking down the aisles, like, hey, you see that little cubby there? That that little's gonna see us in there, you know, where they've got like stuff like under like piled under the product, like and then it's just like saran wrapped into like this fort, and we're like, hey, that looks cute. That looks convenient. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's like the episode of the office where I think Dwight and Angela fucking the um in the dog eyes. In the warehouse. No, in the in the paper warehouse, in the Daryl's warehouse.

SPEAKER_06 38:01

Well, there's one where there's like in this huge cardboard box. In the doghouse at Michael's uh apartment or something like that. You see their feet coming out of the Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:10

But it it looks like uh there's a huge cardboard box that's empty on this shelf that is like super boring looking. Yeah, anyways. But yeah, maybe maybe live a little, maybe take some risks, maybe uh, maybe you know, the risks are to do. Squeeze your ass you think they are. Squeeze your ass in Walmart, see what happens.

SPEAKER_06 38:29

I do that all the time.

SPEAKER_00 38:30

That's true. We can assure you that nothing is happening but some good old foreplay all day playfulness. Yeah. So the last word that we have to compound on to building this tension that we need to create is pursuit.

SPEAKER_06 38:49

Yeah. And this is one that's you we talked about early in our relationship that you like to be pursued.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

Need to be pursued.

SPEAKER_06 38:58

And and and you know, you said that.

SPEAKER_00 39:01

Nobody's chasing me, I'm out bored.

unknown 39:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 39:04

You verbalize that. I think everybody feels that way. Everybody wants to be chased. Right.

SPEAKER_00 39:11

Everybody wants to be desired that much that you are, you know, um, I I heard And chased, chase like pursued, not chase like chastity. Oh my god, shut the fuck up. Like I heard so Dan Levy, who I love, yeah, said, I I saw a reel of him in an interview saying, you know, my best friend gave me the best dating relationship advice ever, and said, Ask yourself, would my partner run to me? That's the don't that's the question.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:42

Would my partner run to me? And if you know immediately the answer is like that you're not seeing that happen, or they're still just sitting there like a bump on a log, or then the answer is no.

SPEAKER_02 39:52

Right.

SPEAKER_00 39:54

Like, how much does your partner desire you? How enthusiastic are they about you? Are they gonna run to you? Would they run to you? Yeah, you know, I mean we live in this world where but we get these opportunities, okay? Like in airports, you see the movie scenes of like, oh my god, you know, like would your partner be running to you in that airport scene, or would they just, you know, leisurely walk up and and I and so I I loved that, you know, and I think that that's I would think what everybody wants. Everybody wants a partner who would run to them, yeah, who desires them that much, and who's gonna, you know, chase them. Yeah. And then your job, if you're more the the the runner or the versus the chaser, yeah, uh depends on what your relationship dynamic is, and maybe it's fifty-fifty, maybe it's both, whatever, at different times or whatever. But if you're the runner, make the chase fun. Yeah. Is what I is what I always say.

SPEAKER_06 40:53

Yeah, I I agree with that. And and it it is a partnership thing. You gotta do that. It's it's that's a form of partner interaction. Well, yeah. It's like if if you're if you're bored by me chasing you, I'm gonna eventually stop.

SPEAKER_00 41:08

Well that and honestly, if no one's doing shit, then it's just like, okay, if I'm not running, right, and you're then you have no one to chase. That's true. Right. And if I am and you're not chasing, then that's fucking boring for me. I mean, have you ever played tag where chase me, chase me, you know, and and then the game just stops.

SPEAKER_02 41:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:27

Right? And that that's gonna happen with your relationship if you don't have someone who's the runner and someone who's the pursuer or the chaser. It's like nobody's chasing I think of my best friend's wedding, and you know, we're old. Yeah, we know it. But like, come on. Uh my best friend's wedding, where Jules is chasing Michael, and Michael is chasing uh Cameron Diaz, what's her name?

SPEAKER_04 41:59

I remember now.

SPEAKER_00 42:00

And George, gay George, who I love, is like, Jules, who's chasing you? No one. So it's like, get out of this. And if you don't know anything about that movie, it's about go watch it. It's about uh uh Julia Roberts, who's trying to break up her best friend, who's Dermot Roni, yeah, his uh marriage that is happening to Cameron Diaz because she wants to get a bat like anyway. And so nobody's chasing her, so get get out of the picture. But it makes me think of this that like, hey, if nobody's chasing, if you're in a you know, monogamous relationship and nobody's chasing anyone, like you guys don't have shit. Like, right, what what's happening?

SPEAKER_06 42:45

And this is a good culminating point for this whole topic and where we started here is what you know, why good sex dies in good relationships. Or just why sex dies in relationships.

SPEAKER_00 42:55

But that then you gotta think of why why is my relationship or my sex not good.

SPEAKER_06 42:59

Yeah, exactly. So all these points we've made, but this one is a good kind of bow on the package of if there's no pursuit and there's no fun in the pursuit. What are you even doing? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:19

In this podcast, we often use the terms women and men when discussing relationships and sexual dynamics. However, we want to acknowledge that not all women have vulvas and not all vulva owners identify as women. Similarly, not all men have penises, and not all penis owners identify as men. Our podcast welcomes individuals and couples of all orientations and identities. We aim for inclusivity, but fully acknowledge that our attempts will never be perfect. We are learning and adopting new language as humankind and our world evolves.

SPEAKER_06 43:50

Hey, just a heads up. We're not therapists or doctors, but we do coach people on sex, dating, and relationships based on our own experiences, research, and the wild stories we've heard and lived along the way. What we share is for your inspiration and education, but it's not a substitute for professional medical or mental health advice. If you're facing a serious issue, please seek out the right kind of support. In the meantime, keep listening, stay curious, and let's keep the conversations going.