Episode 14: A Conversation With My First Guest & Yoga Teacher Trainer Katja Patel

In this lovely first conversation with my amazing yoga teacher trainer Katja, we talk about what bought Katja onto the yogic path, being human as a yoga teacher, religion versus spirituality, discipline in our yoga practice and how trust and faith in the practice and process is a vital part of the journey.

 We also talk about how we are sent the right teachers at the right time, how self-doubt, a lack of self-worth and inertia can limit us all, and how we can use the practice to take us over the line into action and back into a state of balance and greater self-belief.

Katja Patel has been practising Hatha yoga for over 30 years and teaching for 25 years. She has a wealth of knowledge in Ayurveda, yogic philosophy and anatomy. I had the great honour of being her student and now I can happily call her a dear friend. I hope you enjoy this beautiful conversation as much as we did.

If you have any comments, questions or anything you would like to hear about related to this podcast, I'd love to hear from you.

Please feel free to message me on Instagram or email me here: helen@feettoearthyoga.co.uk

You can follow me on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/feettoearthyoga/?hl=en

Or why not find out how we can work together with classes classes, courses and 1:1 coaching here: https://www.feettoearthyoga.co.uk/

With love and light,

Helen xxx

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:02

Welcome to Be Still and Notice, a yoga podcast. Join me, your host, yoga and meditation instructor Helen Taylor, to dive deeply into the vast ocean of wisdom that is yoga. Explore with me how these ancient practices can help heal and elevate us physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually in an ultra-modern world. Together we'll deepen our practice, explore our connection to divinity and our own inner landscapes with the help of special guests, guided meditations, how-tos and oh so much more. Yoga has the incredible power to change your life on every level and it all begins with stillness. Now let's begin. Hi everyone and welcome, welcome to episode 14 of Be Still and Notice, a yoga podcast. And I'm super excited to share this episode with you because it is my first ever episode with a guest and I'm so honoured to have a beautiful conversation with my yoga teacher trainer, Katya Patel. She's an incredible teacher with 30 years of practice plus under her belt and And she's a wealth of knowledge and experience. So I really hope you enjoy this conversation as much as we did. There's a lot of giggling going on. You do hear my dog barking at one point. We talk about being human as a yoga teacher, Katya's first experience of yoga, and how we get moved onto the path that is right for us. Religion versus spirituality. We talk about trust and faith in the practice and the process and how the right teachers are sent to us at the right time when we need them the most for our own personal growth. We also talk about what to do when you feel stuck, how doubt and self-worth and inertia can really limit us in our practice and in life in general. And how a sprinkle of discipline can help us over the line into taking action, moving forward, shifting our energy and being bold and brave. I really hope you enjoy the episode. Katja, hello, hello. Hello, Helen. Hello, hello to you as well. Welcome. This is so exciting. You are my first ever podcast guest. I'm so honoured. Well, I'm so happy to have you on here. So I'll just introduce everyone to the lovely Katja. So I know Katja because she has been a She taught me to be a yoga teacher back in, ooh, gosh, when was it now? Finishing 2020, at the beginning of lockdown. And we did it for three and a half years, so it was 2018, wasn't it? I think so, yes. I did the foundation course with you before, which was about... That was quite long, wasn't it? I think it was about eight months. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They need to be six months minimum. So it was about six to eight, between six and eight months. Yeah. So Katya, the lovely Katya Patel, I've known her for quite a long time. So it's a real honour to have my lovely teacher on. Katya runs Zest for Yoga and Ayurveda, which are yoga classes.

UNKNOWN: 4:26

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 4:26

Online courses. And she's also an Ayurvedic diet and lifestyle consultant, which we're going to talk about what that is more later. Yes. And I'm excited for that. And she's a yoga teacher trainer. Extraordinaire. Katja has been teaching yoga for over 25 years and practicing for 30 plus years. And to me, she lives the yogic lifestyle every day. She is an exemplar of living the yogic way and everything she does. So she really is an authority. For me, she is a real authority on all that is yoga. She's married with two kids and has a lovely dog, a beautiful Weimaraner called Lola. That's right. Thank you, Helen, for that. I'm quite honoured, you know, too. Well, it's all true, isn't it? It is, yes, yes. It is true, too, yes. But You know, when you said you're living the yoga lifestyle, which I think I do, but it's not what everyone probably thinks, that I'm zenning out all the time and sort of hovering, you know, above the floor, which is not the case, you know, just to bust that bubble straight away.

UNKNOWN: 5:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 6:00

Well, that is something we are going to talk about. That's one of my questions for you, because I think that's really important to say that you're also a human being. Exactly. First and foremost. Exactly. And, you know, that's something that I want to share in my teaching is that it's not about being perfect and zen all the time because human beings aren't. And that's the beauty of yoga, isn't it? Yes. It's designed for humans. Absolutely. I just wanted to get this out, you know, not that because it is really, it is people in general, they think, oh, you're relaxed all the time. It's just not the case. So yeah, I want to get that out early. It's so important, isn't it? Because a while ago, I remember being, um, in a yoga class and I'd written some blog posts and this lady said, oh, I'm so glad you're human too. For some reason, people think yoga teachers have it all figured out and, you know, just sitting there going on in the corner. And yes, we do that too, but. Yes, but in between it is, I mean, if you, especially if you, live this, what do you say in yoga, this householder life. You have a family or you have a job maybe as well on the side. And then this is just really different. You need to fit everything into yoga. your life and you think yoga is what helps you live that life purposefully. Not necessarily all the time calm and collected, but it is more about the meaning that you see, how you find your life helpful or purpose to contribute in this world as well. Yeah, yeah. You have a light entry into that conversation. I'm getting still in there. I love it. No, I love it. It's something so important because it makes it so much more real and relatable. And actually, I think there is a real, I don't know if you agree with this, but there's like a real kind of... There's almost like this myth that, yeah, you do yoga, you're a yoga teacher, you know everything. Well, not necessarily everything, but you've got it all figured out. You're always there and you're always calm. And none of the yoga practices or schools of yoga say that even. No, that's right. Yeah, I've been practicing and even swamis and gurus, have their moments, enlightened beings have their moments, you know? Absolutely, because they are also in the body, right? So you are in the body, then this is what comes with all of what the yoga philosophy is about, is about that. And this was a thousand years ago or more than thousands of years ago. They seem to have the same issues that we have. So we haven't much evolved, I have to say, in that issue of being content in our life or seeing the purpose of our life and in these sort of inter-human relationships. But I think this, for me, that's what yoga is about, really, too. to fit this all in and try to make sense of it based on that. That leads me to my first question. So what was your first, could you share your first experience of yoga? My first experience of yoga was when I accompanied one of my colleagues to a yoga class, which I didn't want to, because for me, yoga was always a hippie thing. that shows how long I'm, you know, around on this earth. No ages mentioned. But that was really, that was really that sort of connection was still there to the 60s and, you know, long hair and flowery, flowy clothes. And that was me then when I started. It's me yet either. But I mean, then when I started, that was definitely not me. And, um, I wanted to learn to meditate. That was, that was what I want, uh, was after then. And, um, um, and I started Buddhist meditation, uh, not very successfully, but, um, I was in a, uh, on a mission to, uh, to do that. And, uh, so she asked me to accompany her and, and I said to her, if you'd get a class where there is not this hippie business going on. It was, uh, yeah, it was really something, I don't know. It, it was really strong in me then that this is not what I am. And, and so she did. And, um, uh, so we, we, we, we, um, joined a 45 minute beginners. Uh, there was a beginner's course and, um, Yeah, it was just amazing, honestly, because I have scoliosis since a teenager and I have forever had back aches. I needed to, you know, my legs were hurting. My whole body was always in aches. And when I left that session, I was just floating. And I thought, oh, my God, this is amazing. I thought, okay, I have to be back next week. And that's what I did. Amazing. So it had that... Straight away. It had that. Absolutely. I really, I went in with no experience. I didn't even know what yoga was about all my, you know, preconceptions that I had beforehand. But I had really no clue what yoga is about. And I've always been quite sporty and I've always done something with my body. And so I was fairly flexible. But when I left that, I just thought, wow. this is unbelievable and uh yeah and then I wanted that again and again and again addicted to that yes it's interesting though that you were drawn what was it that drew you to learn to meditate before you know um I had a very stressful relationship beforehand, which ended and it was an extremely stressful time for me. And I did some traveling in Asia and I noticed that, you know, they bring in their spirituality in a completely different way. You know, they sort of have, when I went to Thailand, they have this little Houses for the spirits in front of the house and incense sticks and all of that. And I thought, wow, this is quite different. And I was just interested in that. And I've always been... I've always been interested in spirituality. So I did read throughout my teenage years lots of books also about Buddhism. I always... Religions always have interested me. And so when I read the books and when I saw how they lived their life there, I thought this is something that I need to try. And I knew to... overcome this stress and sort of finding my way again that this has to come from the inside and that it is that was always very clear to me that it was inside me what I had to tidy up or I had to shift and meditation seemed to be the way forward but it was the sitting still for an hour and I was sort of the guide. And after a minute, I was in agony. And I thought, I can't deal with that. This is just so, yeah, it seemed to be undoable, really. Impossible for me to do. And yeah, so I joined that group. Not as a replacement, but just to accompany her. And then over time, I also learned, you know, they also did meditation there. And that yoga has this whole philosophy around it, which started to answer lots of my questions and made so much sense to me. I think it's so telling when you ask people that question, what took them to their first yoga class. And there always seems to be this inner calling, even though it's from somewhere else. You know, you felt the need to meditate and you've been to Asia and the Buddhist way. And then this opportunity just kind of comes along. And I think that's, it's really beautiful. And to me, that's another sign that the universe is kind of or the divine, whatever you believe, is showing you that way forward. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. I'm totally believing that. You get moved into the direction you need to go. And if you go, if you take the... left turn instead of the right turn you know then then you get shown this was the wrong turn for you you know you have to move back and you get you meet people or you you come into situations where you always have another opportunity to join that path again that you were supposed to take in the first place and uh yeah i do i do believe that is uh that's absolutely true What was your upbringing like in Germany? Were your parents religious or spiritual? Well, no, not my parents. I mean, my mother maybe a little bit, but my grandmother. And so I did have, so we went into Sunday school and, you know, through that whole, through this, the whole sort of church-like thing. what you could do as a child. And it has always been, I mean, and I went to church for quite a long time, till my teenage years, where I felt that it is just too constricting and that it is too much this, if you do that, that's it. You know, there's no, there's no, way out there's no do over there's nothing just uh and i didn't it didn't get on with me this this kind of thinking and i also had an issue with that uh the church thought that it's only them all the other religions they uh they were they didn't mean anything they were just wrong So that's why I left the church, because I think I'm not a religious person, I'm more a spiritual person. And then my teacher later, he used to say, you know, Everyone needs that. Some people need that religious container to grow in there because they need these strict guidelines and other people, they don't need that. And I thought, okay, I'm with the other people's section because it was just too much for me. But it always was, you know, in me. Yeah, I think that's fascinating, isn't it? Because it's... It's very similar for me in that my dad was, bless him, very complete atheist, very science-minded man, but he loved nature. And I have that. And then my mum was brought up as a Christian, friendly Christian. So we went to Sunday school and everything. But I remember praying to Jesus as a little girl and being like, who is this person and who is this man in the sky? And it never fit, but I always felt drawn. I loved churches. I loved the, I don't know if you can relate to this, but just the atmosphere of being in a sacred space and the ritualization of the services, the candles, the incense, the... The mysticism. Yes, yes. Absolutely. I can relate to that. I loved monasteries. I still love them because they have something. It is the energy that is in these places because certain... like you said these rituals these routines they are there they have been practiced there for years and years and years and that energy is what we feel you know and what we also get drawn towards even if it is not our belief system uh that that we enter there but still you feel that energy and it is just it is yeah it is something different and something quite special Yeah, I love that. Even now, I still like going to a cathedral or a church and just sitting there and soaking it up. And I think that's a beautiful thing. I don't think anyone minds. No. You don't have to tell your story, do you? You just sit and enjoy these days. Yeah, that's fine. So... What was it that led you to become a yoga teacher? So after your initial lovely class and you were just in there addicted to that feeling. Absolutely. I moved then from the beginners to the intermediate. And it was really my yoga teacher then. She was a teacher trainer. And with, I think, after two or three years, she... She said, look, I'm starting this teacher training. I think it would be good for you. And I thought, hmm, don't think so. I did like the curriculum because it had the philosophy in it. But I never thought that I'm going to teach because I thought this is not for me. And she kept pestering me with you I do think it is good and every time when I came she said look you should you should think about it and then one day I thought okay I'll give in here maybe maybe maybe it's something I need to do but I definitely wanted to learn about the philosophy so I thought okay it is not completely off off my plan and that's how i started but that's really and even through i would say three quarters of my training i was not thinking about teaching i didn't think that this is something that i'm actually going to do afterwards so what kind of yoga was it that you were learning with your teacher I think that it's what you call Hatha Yoga, right? Just know it was not Iyengar Yoga. It was not Ashtanga Yoga. It was Hatha Yoga. But she was heavily influenced by Iyengar and also Sivananda. And so it was sort of, I think, a little bit of everything and what she felt was what makes sense to her. Sounds fascinating, actually. I've always fancied, I've never actually been to an Iyengar class, but I've always... You don't have I. I don't think I would get on with this strictness. I think I have something with this strictness. The metal chairs scare me slightly. I think he had... enormous impact and all the props that he used really it was you know all the props that we have now uh came from ayanga yoga and so he has contributed really a lot to uh how we practice yoga now um but this strictness of uh of this you know needing to be exactly into that there was no gift i think this is something that i find difficult to to fit in for some people that's that's exactly that's exactly what they need yes yes so um i think it's quite similar you know people that like ashtanga they need that framework of doing the same thing. You do that, and then you do that, and then you do that, and then you do it again. Whereas I'm more like you. And I love the fluidity of Hatha. And now, as teachers, we can bring in different elements from our own experience, can't we? Like your teacher did. Yes. Absolutely. I think it is important. You try different things. And... And everything that you get drawn to and you try, there's something that you can take from that and make it sort of your own. If it fits you and you slot in, then that's absolutely great. And if not, then that's equally great. There's no right or wrong in that sense. yeah yeah and that's the beauty isn't it again of yoga is that there is a kind or a type practice for absolutely everyone isn't there it absolutely is yes yes and I think this is also the when you when you become a yoga teacher maybe you remember that this is one something that might be the most difficult for you is to there's no black and white there's lots of gray shades where you need to get your head around and it is not like what is good for that you know what does this how does it supposed to feel and um but he said there's nothing that you need to supposed to feel uh but it's the the um Yeah, the mind needs a particular answer for making sense to something and might find it difficult to just, yeah, free flow a little and experience. So that was a big, my teacher was very big in it. How does it feel? And if you gave a generic answer, she always picked up on that. That's not, no, how did it feel? And yeah. So, yeah, there's lots of ways to open your mind in yoga. Do you think that's particular of us as Western practitioners, that we like to know, okay, I'm doing that because it gives that outcome? I think so, because we are very outcome-driven. I think when you're in India, it's different because they... tell you what you need to do and they don't question so much. They don't have this system. Maybe it changes now, but I think in the past it was very much a system that you learn and that's how it is. And here we need to understand and we need to question and why are we going to do that and what is it for? Before we even do it, what is it for? Is it good for me or not? Can I trust that or not? Well, that was just the word that was coming up. And I was going to say, do you think... I feel like it's because in India, you know, everything is around spirituality and faith, really, isn't it? That whole culture, would you agree with that? Yes. It's bound in this kind of faith and belief, you know, everything, almost everything that they do around the day. Yes. It's around that. And for us, we're so untrusting. When I say us, I mean more in the Western world, more and more so. And so we don't have that kind of, it's not a blind faith. No. But it's like we have to, it has to earn our trust for us to. Yes. Would you agree with that? Yeah. I totally agree with you. But then I think when you go to India, they have very much this culture of, the guru and the disciples. And I think it is this learning that way, you know, that you have someone there who is your authority. And it is also their not blind faith, you know, that they say, but it is the teacher is someone who has experienced something that you haven't yet. And so they have a different trust, you know, they have already learned made more progress than you have. So that's why they tell you, okay, do it that way. And they follow. And we say, hold on. Is that really? Are you sure? And I know I'm very bad with that as well. If my husband says something and I say, really, this is like a habit. And he gets sometimes really annoyed with me. Why are you questioning me? It's not really a questioning in that sense. Doubting, but there is something is there, right? And I think they have maybe, they have that more in their culture than we have. Yeah, no, no, no. I think it's absolutely fascinating. And actually that so gets in the way. And I, for my practice, um faith has been a huge trust and faith has been a really huge thing actually trust in faith in myself and in the process yes and um i think for a lot of people it is it really is but it might not be yet uncovered i was having having a chat with one of my one-to-one clients and uh he was slightly put off by some of the, I gave him the yoga sutras to read. And he was slightly put off with the use of the term God. Yes. In the sutras. And he was like, but Helen, I thought yoga wasn't religious. And I said, well, it's not. And so we had this whole conversation and he really needed to know because he's like, I'm not sticking around for this. If this is a cult or a religion that you can have. Yes, yes, yes. But it is, I think it, you know, I've done quite a few courses, not yoga related, but for the online courses, you know, how to structure them, how to do this. And it's the same there, you know, you have someone who shows you how to do it because they have done it. they always say trust in the process and there's always this and that's also what I find really amusing because there's so much similarity to that I know there are people who think okay maybe I'll do it this way trust the process because I've done it before and that's how it works if you want to go this extra detour do but it is really that trusting uh the practice right and um yeah and i mean yoga is quite big on that um and i did some actually i did some journaling this morning around this the trust in the uh in the practice and uh and how difficult it is because As soon as something doesn't show obvious success, you know, or not in that time frame that we have maybe thought out for it, it is this doubt coming in where, oh, is that the right thing to do? Should I still do that? Maybe I'll try something different. But there's no... or there's no but it is so difficult to just carry on with what you do because that's the way to do it and yeah I would say that's the fastest way to do it. Otherwise, you do your detours and then you come back because maybe they didn't lead you into that. They didn't lead you off pace slightly, you know, and you have to come back to that. And yeah, I think when you have done lots of detours, then you think, OK, maybe I just stick with that. and do it and see how it develops. I think there are impatience that gets challenged there. Yes, definitely. And there's a testing of the teacher, isn't there? I mean, I think it's so vital, and I've said it so many times already on my podcast, that finding the right teacher, I think, is absolutely crucial. Absolutely. It'd be really interesting to hear what you think about this, but I think we're also sent the right teacher at the right time. Absolutely. I think so, because, you know, if you if you believe that or for you, that's true. Someone comes along who sort of nudges you into the right direction and because you needed that, or who sort of furthers you in what, or who sees something in you that you don't see, then I think you do, you know, you get the people that move you along on your path, you know, that help you to overcome what keeps you back. You know, what hinders you to progress, to evolve or whatever you want to do. And sometimes it's not comfortable. You know, it's not the easiest people that they invite you to say, yeah, do that. All will be good. They challenge you and they are difficult. And I think that's important and important. Yes, I do believe that you get whatever you need, you know. Yeah, definitely, because I've had... I feel so lucky. I feel like I've had fantastic teachers along the way. You know, I found you just kind of by accident when I was... thinking about training to be a yoga teacher but like you I was like no I don't really want to I just want to learn about it do you remember and that's why I did the foundation you said do the foundation and then find out it's similar to you I was like no I'm not gonna be a teacher I just want to learn yes and um I just I do feel very lucky that I've had some incredible teachers along the way but they have really tested me pushed me challenged me and have You know, it's not been easy. No, because you need to step up, right? So if you become a yoga teacher or any goal that you have, I think goals are always where we plan ahead of ourselves. We are not there yet, but that's where we want to go. And we are probably also not... ready for that version of us yet you know and so we need to learn and we need to overcome things that keep us we need to sort of step up our game as well and we need to leave our comfort zone frequently and grow through that and only then we grow only when there's friction we grow because otherwise we are complacent or content and think okay that's good enough for me but if you want something more or you think you want to go somewhere different then you need to Yeah, you need to grow into that person and you need people who show you where you need to grow or where you need to sort of smooth the edges a little or, you know, have also a good talking to. Yeah. Absolutely. You need all of that too. move out of your smaller into your slightly bigger picture. Because we can't, it's very hard for us to see within ourselves, although we might be, and I'm talking about myself, but I know this for a lot of people I know, we might have ambitions. But that real total self-belief, like I'm just going to, some people have that, don't they? I'm just going to do this thing and they do it. I mean, God, I'd love that. Some are on a mission and they are just super focused, you know. And I do admire these people, really, because I think that's a true gift, you know, to have that. That laser. They have in the past had, you know, someone who took them there. But, yeah, it is. I do like Ashtanga yoga. And when I go to classes, you know, You see, you know, people who have done this for years and years, they have done never anything else, you know, not needed anything else. And I think, wow, amazing, right? That you don't have this urge, this need to, that you don't have this thinking of, Maybe this grass on the other side is greener than my pasture. And just to coming back to this trust, you know, that this is what I'm going to do. And this also doesn't need to be blind in the way, of course. they they also try to evolve the style and you know make it more accessible obviously but um yeah because that's when you see the the fastest growth as well i think is when you when you stick with something and and uh yeah trust it's back to the trust it's massive isn't it it's huge It's huge, absolutely. It is. It is huge, yes. My teacher used to say, you know, doubt will kill you. I thought, Really? I don't think so. But I think over the years, I really understood what he meant, you know, because it goes in the smallest details and in the, you know, your habits and your beliefs and all of that. It really seeps into your whole being and it keeps you back. That's what it does, right? Doubt really keeps you from doing what what you are supposed to do. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. And the self-worth piece around all of this is huge, isn't it? And, you know, yeah, really worth looking at. It is, absolutely. It is really. It's for, I think, everyone who wants to grow. They need to look at this. You need to look at how you... We all obviously have been brought up in a certain way. You know, we had parents that did their best to sort of make a decent person out of us. But we might think we might have completely different experiences. memories of our upbringing disconnect between these two sides and but this is what keeps us right so us getting stuck with that you know I have experienced that and I've so and hence I feared that I'm not good enough. And I think it is such a big thing that we, so many people feel, including myself, I always feel, oh, I'm not good enough for that. I'm not, you know, it's not for me. And then to hear, is that, is that my mother talking? Or is that me? You know, do I need to let go of certain things? And yes, so I find it, it's, it's, very interesting and uh i find we all need to go to those places to just to come out of that belief that we have about ourselves you know where others might see us completely different than we see ourselves and uh and it is important to just understand that's what I think both yoga and Ayurveda invite us to look at, you know, it's not just your history. Your parents grew up in a certain way. They had certain beliefs sort of drummed into them that they drummed into us. And when you have children, so many times, especially with my son as the first one, I thought, what just came out of my mouth? Was that my mother? You know, because you have these little sentences that come out that you heard your whole life. And all of a sudden you say them, you think, hold on, there seems to be something going wrong here. Yeah, oh God, where did that come from? Yeah, yeah, you know where that comes from, but it is really... So it is to... not completely unravel what we have heard and how that has impacted us, but to see that there is an impression on us. And maybe it is a really strong impression that keeps us, that we just need to let go of. Yeah. And how do we, through a yogic lens, how do we begin to let go of that, do you think? well i think it is the practice you come back to that you know if you go to patanjali uh the the eight limbs that's sort of the the practice you know you you look at your behavior towards yourself towards others uh the way you look after yourself and um and then uh you know, some physical practice and whatever that is. You know, if someone likes running, then they might run. But it is to do something, you know, that I think it is this repeating of doing something very regularly to keep us from these likes that we have and these dislikes that we have, you know, that we see ingrained in us. And naturally, we follow the likes and we want to avoid the dislikes. So to overcome that, the practice serves us in a way, apart from it gets the body ready, you know, and releases physical tensions that we have and strengthen certain areas. And also the systems of the bodies get sort of cleaned up and strengthened. But It is the repeating, this getting up in the morning, although you don't feel like it. It is, you know, it is not looking at the excuses that we have. Oh, I had a difficult day yesterday. Oh, I was working so much. Oh, it is cold this morning. It is dark. I don't feel, you know, all of these things. which are excuses in a way. I mean, sometimes, obviously, we need to, if we're ill, we're ill, we need to listen to that. But the majority of what goes on is we just don't feel like it. And hence, we follow that avoiding path. And this avoiding path keeps us in this liking it and not liking it, this duality. And Moving beyond that through the practice, I think that really helps us from the yoga perspective to sort of overcome all of that and make us maybe or help us make us into the person that we want to be, help us to reach what we want to have. Or you follow the Bhagavad Gita, they have other, you know, there are other paths there, but it is always something that you should or need to do. Because if we are not doing it, most of us, they are in that, oh, no. Yeah. No, I don't think so. And being indecisive or playing it small, playing it safe. yeah and I think that's how the practice is always overcoming that with doing something very regularly so what would you for a long time 30 years plus keep going no I totally agree with that and as someone who I tend to go, this is my nature I found, I tend to go through periods of just feeling very stuck when I'm not sure or my self-worth has gone down for whatever reason or something has been triggered. And I get in this stuck place where all I want to do is be in my little safe zone of nothingness. Yes. But at the same time, I feel really frustrated and I know what I need to do. I know what's going to make me feel better my practice breathing meditation whatever but sometimes like getting to that what would you say to someone like me who knows what's good for them but is really just really struggling with that is it a sense of discipline that's needed what is it that carries you over the line and gets you into action well I think it's it's There are different ways, obviously. The discipline definitely is there. It's the Nike, just do it, right? Don't think about it. It really is just do it. That helps. But you have to see then, you know, for example, if you go with the Ashtanga. So you have maybe the primary series or the secondary series and you fear it. rubbish and you think I can't do that so then you you can you have that choice you know to do okay I'm not doing I'm just staying in my bubble here or you can say definitely I don't want to do this for an hour and a half but I could do some shavasana to start off lying down lying down constructive way i could do uh maybe a salute to the sun or two it's like a nice day three is the minimum And for sure, after the third one, you will feel different because your energy will have picked up. And it is a fine line. And no one else but you can decide, are you truly ill and you can't really do it? And for you, a day of rest is good or two or three. Or is it that you've been stuck there? And I think when you're stuck there, How long does it take? You know, and if you have a sort of frustration in you, that means there's one side that wants to move on out of that. Then I would definitely say, you know, have... If even Surya Namaskar is too much for you, do three times a few cats and cows and downward dog. You know, just it is this... When you look at it from the yoga perspective, you have this tamasic quality, you know, the inertia. So can you explain to people who haven't heard what? We have three qualities that impact our mind, which is sattvic, which is a balanced state and clear and light, and rajasic, which is activity and balance. When it goes too far, being critical or touchmental. Or tamas, which is the quality of inertia. Also of steadiness, but also when we're getting stuck, this tamasic quality is there. Too much, right? And it needs movement to get out of that. You know, you need to have this physical push to move. And from there, you can go again into clarity or just stay with this mobility. But otherwise, you just stay there. So something is needed and it is something physical that is needed that takes you out. You can go for a brisk walk. you still would feel different afterwards. Yes, definitely. But it is the movement and that keeps our system going and the mind gets back from stuck into thinking, into having ideas, into looking for solutions rather than, I can't do this. Someone else has to do this. It's not me. You know, this sort of look, seeing yourself as a victim of this. Yeah, that really is a big part of it, I think, for some people, myself included sometimes. Woe is me. Yes. Or me. No, I don't know. It's too much. It's too much. When actually it's exactly what we need, isn't it? Yes, it is. But then also you can say, you know, you stay in that self-loathing for a while and really overdo it and really say, oh, my God. This is all, this is so difficult. I can't do this anymore. There's no one who's helping me, you know. But there will come a point when your mind is fed up with that because the mind is fickle, you know, and it needs and it wants to change and it gets bored quite easily. Also with that state of being stuck.

UNKNOWN: 53:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 53:52

But definitely regular movement, also what it does, if you come into that practice, it keeps you from swaying there and there and getting stuck in those moods for a longer time. Because if you have a regular practice and you're in that flow, these uh you still get stuck i'm also of that personality where i i can you know it can be for months i'm just sailing and then there comes something and then everything comes to a hold and i think oh you know but you just don't listen to it too much and you and you go on your mat keep it there have your place where you don't need to tidy up first you know have your mat rolled out and you just step on it it will make a difference and it will make you sort of move and then come out of that that's exactly what I do my mat I'm very lucky that I have my own little yoga room but just behind me here i've got it rolled out so i've got no excuse it is really because these are excuses of a shark calling stay in bed for another five minutes and i think it's really interesting actually because i was going to do i was actually going to do a podcast episode on this because discipline is a bit of a dirty word isn't it in the kind of wellness yoga But I think it really has its place in the right context. We're not talking about, because we're talking about self-care. Yes, exactly. We're talking about, that's how you look after yourself. And by looking, yeah, so... Sometimes we need that push to drive us through the negative spaces, don't we? Because actually we do know what's good for us, even though there are all sorts of parts of us psychologically, emotionally that can be going, no, no, no, you don't want to do that. Keeping us small, keeping us quiet, keeping us still. That's right. And it also manifests in your body because sometimes you do get... tummy hurts, you know, you get headaches, you get migraines maybe, or your back hurts. I can't do that. Yeah. And you have an excuse, you know, where you could do something. Yeah. So my teacher always used to say, you always have a choice. You always have a choice. You might not like that choice that you have, but it's there. You know, there's no one... sits there and sort of physically keeps you it is always you and it is always you also really you have to sort of get that energy and come out of it but the energy again you come always I come always to that same conclusion The energy keeps you going. The energy builds up as you are building up your practice and you have a regular practice. And then once it dips and you stop, then the energy will fall as well, you know, and you need to pick yourself up again. But if you are regular in your practice, make it these dips go, they are becoming less and less deep. Yeah.

UNKNOWN: 57:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 57:36

And because you are creating a different base energy that you have. And I think that's the result of a discipline, but the discipline not with that flavor of you have to, but as a structure. And I think we do need structure. Yeah, so let's just say to everyone out there, we're not talking about discipline as in, get on your mat and do 100 sun salutations every day. No, we're not talking about that. And we're not saying don't listen to your body. We're saying listen to your body. But when you know mentally that it's... It's an inertia and it's a sense of it's coming from somewhere else and that actually moving through that will make you feel so much better and keeping that practice going. Exactly, because that's what yoga is about, discovering yourself. tuning in with yourself and when you do that for a while you do know your traits you know and you you can see these thoughts forming and you think hold on this is not where i want this one to go to and um and you see yourself in these patterns and you see that loop coming and uh and then you take a stop to it you know by saying okay i'm not listening to that i'm just doing that now and you see that you feel better afterwards it's not when you have a fever and you schlep yourself onto the mat and this is not what it is about but it is really that getting to know yourself and maybe at the beginning you have to go through these weeks on end where you feel stuck and you can't do anything to come out of that and say okay I don't want to repeat that again. That was a little bit of waste of time and energy. And when this comes again, then you see it and then you stop it because you know where it leads you to. And that's what the discipline and the structure will show you. Yeah, totally, 100%. I mean, I think there's so much we could talk about around this and I think we need to have more. we need to do this again a few more times because there's so much to talk about but I mean for me and I've said it before on here and it'd be lovely to hear what the greatest gift yoga has given you but for me it is that sense of self-awareness when I look back to even five years ago yoga It was very different. I mean, we all change all the time. Meditation and yoga has just really, it shows a mirror. It brings a mirror up to your face, doesn't it? It makes you go, oh, why am I doing that? Why am I saying that? And that for me is being life-changing, completely life-changing. Yes. I think the awareness is really what, that's what yoga arises from. The awareness. Awareness of ourselves, of, you know, ourselves within that life, within these relationships that we have. And like you said, this mirror is there all the time. And it shows you. And it, yeah, helps you to... be more in control or in charge. Maybe control is again, a word that is not so, it's not so, how should I say, positive, but in charge of yourself, you know, that you can see these, these patterns. We all have those, you know, behavioral patterns, thinking patterns, and they are all in our subconscious area. They are, They just run us in our life and they always run us from a state of fear because we don't know where this comes from all of a sudden, you know. And as we are going through practices and meditation and we become aware of those, then we have the chance to change them, right? And then we see how this thinking comes up and we have the choice to go with it or to think no. So in the Yoga Sutras, you have this, you know, taking the negative thought into a positive thought. Because, you know, once you go with your negative thought, oh, I can't do this, and you go all the way down the rabbit hole. But at the same time, when you see that thought coming up, or you become aware that your thinking is very much in that negativity spool, then you can think, okay, I can turn that. And think something different or take it a different take this same thought or situation into a positive because that's always there but it is very difficult to do that but the practice it's again it helps you to see these things to be able to make these choices yeah it's very empowering isn't it super so empowering i mean because it gives you that level of a personal choice and there's accountability there isn't there there's there's a realizing that no I don't have to just react this way yes I can pause and I can respond or I can I can choose what to say next I can choose how I act what I do next rather than just being this kind of automatic pilot on you know exactly and it is when you know when you you become that person and become like you know when you see this and you you start to change people around you they do notice that you know they do notice that they they can't wind you up all of a sudden anymore you know in a relationship that's great because you think I know what you're after. So this is, I'm not going down that route. And you can make a different choice or you can have a full blown argument. But if you make a different choice, the other person will have to live with it. And maybe things actually, it is better not to go down there because it doesn't, you know, it doesn't lead you to anything. That's I think also what it is. It doesn't lead you to a new experience. It doesn't lead you to a new experience, which is a new information for you that, oh, this could have gone this way as well, you know, or if I don't react to that in that way, this is what's going to happen. And this is much better. Yeah. And this is really, it is for me, this is invaluable what yoga does. And I think it is also very specific to yoga that you have this outcome. And that's also why so many in sports, so many people, they actually resort to yoga because it just helps you on so many layers and so many levels, not just your body, but it is actually a practice for the mind, not for the body. Yeah, completely. And I think so many... we've talked about it or I've talked about it on this podcast you know especially in the western world it has kind of been reduced to stretching in leggings is what I say it's just beyond ridiculous when you really understand what it's about but if that gets some people into it initially and then it turns into something else then great you know absolutely I mean it we have to pick everyone up where they come from. But when you teach for a long time, then you notice, or not you notice, someone comes through your door and you think, okay, this is a keeper, or I won't see this person anymore before they have even started.

UNKNOWN: 1:06:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:38

I know exactly what you mean, and I haven't been teaching all the years you have. I know that, yeah, that person's going to come back, that person's not coming back. Exactly, it is. Or it is really surprising if they show up again. And it's not for everyone, is it? No, it isn't. It is, no, and it is absolutely fine, you know. It really isn't for everyone because it's quite intense. Yeah. Yeah, and... I mean, at least that's what I'm teaching as well. You know, in my teaching, it's intense in a way that because I encourage people to look at themselves, to look at and try to open that door a little more, you know, that there's just so much more to it than this physical well-being, which is there and it's great. But this other realm of the mental well-being is so much more powerful because the mind is more powerful than the body. Yeah, I mean, it's just fascinating, isn't it? I mean, there's just a wealth of stuff that we could talk about around this. But I'm aware that we are running out of time. And I'm so loving talking to you. I don't want it to end, but... how would you feel about coming, coming back and doing another podcast with me? Sure. I love talking as well. Let's do that then. Cause we haven't even touched on, we haven't talked about Ayurveda or anything. And I think a lot of people would really love to hear about that because still it's not very mainstream. So I'd love to have you back in. That's right. Yes. Yes. And it is another, uh, very deep ocean. where we just see some ripples at the top and that's what it is yes okay so i'm gonna ask you i'm starting a tradition with my with my podcast guests But I'm going to ask a series of quickfire questions. I don't know who started this first in the interviewing world, but I remember someone really quite famous doing it. And I thought, oh, I love that. I don't know if it was Parkinson. No, I don't think it was Parkinson. Could be. I know Rich Roll. If you know Rich Roll and his podcast, he doesn't do it anymore, which I'm sad about. And I invite you to, they're not trick questions, but just to not really think too much. Clear your mind and just say the first thing that comes into your head. So you want one thing or you want a sentence? Whatever you want, as long as it's not like overthinking it. The first thing that comes to your mind. Start. Are you ready? Yes, I'm ready. Okay, question number one. What is yoga? Everything. Consciousness is? That's a hard one. Becoming aware of things. My favourite slash current meditation practice is? Chanting. Leggings or baggy pants? Both. Nice. Favourite yoga pose? Wheel pose. Ooh. Must-read yoga book or text? Bhagavad Gita, the Yoga Sutras. For beginners, The Heart of Yoga, Desikachar. Very good entry into that. And many more. If you were marooned on a desert island, classic question, what one yoga-related item would you take with you? I would take the Bhagavad Gita with me because it's a thick book and it has lots of things to think about on the desert island when you can't talk to someone. That would be my choice. Keep you going. Keep me going because you can practice in the sand, right? And you have everything else there, but that, yes, that would be for the mental health. Perfect. Choose one, ashram or yoga retreat? Ashram. Devotion for me looks like... helping people last question of the day karma is karma is karma uh is a good concept nicely put i like that You can end that there because that's a whole huge thing, isn't it? This is another whole episode. That's another five million episodes. Well, listen, Katya, thank you so much. I've so loved chatting to you like this. Thank you. I really appreciate you coming on. I loved it. Absolutely. And thank you for having me because I think it is really nice to have these sources, you know, what you have, your podcast as a source of, yeah, showing different aspects of yoga and that it's not just the physical aspect, but yeah, that there's just so much more to it. Oceans, mountains, valleys, whole planets. All of it. Well, I look so forward to next time we get to chat. Yes, me too. Thank you so much. I'll see you again soon. See you soon, yes. Thank you so much for listening to the Be Still and Notice podcast. I really hope you enjoyed this episode and perhaps it even added something to your life. If you know someone that might benefit, please share this episode with them. And of course, a review would be so much appreciated. Please find all the information relating to this episode, including relevant links in the show notes. And until next time, sending you so much love and light on your path to yoga.