Be Still And Notice: A Yoga Podcast

Episode 5 Part 2: The Eight Limbs Of Yoga With Katja Patel

• Helen taylor • Season 2 • Episode 6

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In this second part of my lovely conversation with Katja, we continue looking at the Eight Limbs of Yoga. We continue to discuss our interpretations of what they mean and how we can  apply them to our practice and modern, everyday life.

We begin our conversation with a brief look at Patanjali's Yoga Sutras, and I reference my copy which is translated and commentaried by Swami Satchidananda. Please see the link below.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Yoga-Sutras-Patanjali-Swami-Satchidananda/dp/1938477073

We then have a recap of the first 3 limbs we discussed in Part 1: Yama & Niyama, Asana, Pranayama,  and then we fturn our focus back on Pratyahara the 4th Limb. 

Its a conversation full of what the key parts of a full yoga practice are and how they are still as powerful and relevant today to our holistic health, and development of our consciousness today as they have ever been. I really hope you enjoy it.

The last part of our conversation will follow shortly, in part 3.



If you have any comments, questions or anything you would like to hear about related to this podcast, I'd love to hear from you.

Please feel free to message me on Instagram or email me here: info@shraddhayayoga.co.uk

You can follow me on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/shraddhaya_yoga/

Or why not find out how we can work together with Yoga & meditation classes, courses and 1:1 coaching here: https://www.shraddhayayoga.co.uk/

With love and light,

Helen xxx

SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to Be Still and Notice, a Yoga Podcast. Join me, your host, Yoga and Meditation Instructor Helen Taylor, to dive deeply into the vast ocean of wisdom that is yoga. Explore with me how these ancient practices can help heal and elevate us physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually in an ultra modern world. Together we'll deepen our practice, explore our connection to divinity and our own inner landscapes with the help of special guests, guided meditations, how-tos, and all so much more. Yoga has the incredible power to change your life on every level, and it all begins with stillness. Now let's begin. This is the second part of a lovely conversation that I have with my yoga teacher, Katia Patel. And we're talking about the eight limbs of yoga. So this episode starts off with a little overview of Patanjali's Yoga Sutras, and then we have a little recap of the first four of the limbs that we talked about in our last episode. We talk about briefly about yamas and niyamas, asana, postures, pranayama, breath practice, and pratyhara, which is all about senses, how we can not be led by the senses. And this I feel is one of the most interesting parts of this conversation because it really leads into how overwhelmed and overused our senses are today, and how this can actually lead to quite a lot of problems in the body mentally as well. So these are all of the conversations around our own interpretation of the eight limbs. There will be a part three where we look at the last of the eight limbs, so watch out for that coming in the next couple of weeks. But in the meantime, I really hope you enjoy this sort of conversation. Grab yourself a cup of tea and get nice and comfy. So lovely Katia, here we are again.

SPEAKER_01:

Here we are.

SPEAKER_00:

That's right. Thank you, Helen. Thank you, thanks so much for coming back. So this is part two of episode five, where Katya and I, uh in the previous episode, we we slightly bit off more than we could chew because we we thought we would be able to give like a brief overview of what the eight limbs of yoga are. And this was really just designed for people that haven't heard about it ever before. But as we got talking, because most people haven't really they don't know what the eight limbs are, they haven't they've heard of just a couple of them. And as we got talking, we of course ended up going deeper and deeper into our conversations. So um, before you listen to this one, maybe go back and listen to part one of this episode, and I'll link it in the show notes.

SPEAKER_01:

And if they listen to this one first, still definitely go back and listen to the other one. Because then sometimes it makes much more sense when you've listened to something and then you get the intro, so to so to speak, uh at the uh at the end, uh still uh it makes it makes more sense.

SPEAKER_00:

That's true actually, isn't it? The order doesn't really matter, it's um but the two together make up our whole conversation about the eight limbs of yoga. So thank you so much for coming back with your expertise. Um I wanted just to talk a little bit about just briefly, and this could be a massive 10 million episodes in itself, talking about the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali. But just to say, if you've not heard of the Yoga Sutras, they called the sutras. Sutras mean threads, don't they? In in Sanskrit.

SPEAKER_01:

You can think of uh like uh uh a rosary, rosary, you know, something like beats, like uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Or a mala or something.

SPEAKER_01:

Imala, that was the word, that's right.

SPEAKER_00:

And that that term is used because Patanjali didn't sit down and write a book. Um, you know, this was the kind of traditional, would you call it the oral tradition in the guru student tradition? It's like an oral tradition, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01:

Things are spoken of, they're not yeah, yes, but um I mean nobody really, I think, by now uh knows what how potentially how it was sort of put together. There were uh there are thoughts about if it was like a sort of a school and everyone contributed to that, or if it was uh one person only who uh who compiled this, but I think they are like these little threads that uh can be standalone, and uh you need to think about them. So it's not something that you read like a novel, or uh um yeah, I think you you each and every one of them has so much depth because it is sort of the essence of something.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. So the suit uh Patangili is known for kind of systematizing, isn't he? Um yoga. So instead of it being this kind of all secretive thing from guru to student, he he decided to kind of put it into a system, and the eight limbs is part of it, really big part of that, isn't it? It's huge.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, and what I also find important to um to mention is if if you are listening to that coming from the yoga class environment, this is only about what happens in our mental setup and uh why we are not uh happy and uh content all time. So uh Patanjali has really um uh uh explored that what happens to our mind, where we come from, um based on the Sakya philosophy, um where we come from, um what makes us unhappy, um what's in what stands in our way, uh, and that these are makeups that everyone of us has, and uh so and what we can do, and the the eight limbs is the part of what we can do to uh to come to that goal.

SPEAKER_00:

I love that, it's so timeless, isn't it? Totally, absolutely, it's absolutely amazing, and it's so relevant today because more and more people are you know, therapy is so mainstream now, more and more people are really getting into their internal workings of the mind and emotional states.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, I think it is obviously it is what when I read the first time, and then I put it away because I didn't understand a single word, we probably also because of the translation that I had to read. But um, but then you know, when you go back to it, it really when we look at, like you said, at the moment, you know, we have mental health crises, and uh and this is really so relevant to that, to understanding where we come from, how the mind works, uh, what's in our way with that, um, and what we can do to remedy that. And this is uh these are things they uh they absolutely work, yeah, like the eight limps.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely, and and like you said in the in the previous episode, what's so great about it is it there's always something that you can do, solutions are offered, aren't they? It's like yes, you're experiencing this because of perhaps this, why not try this? And and it's nothing successible to absolutely everyone, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, because uh as you have in in other um in other scriptures as well, like the Pagavad Gita, for example, if you can't do that, try this. If you can't do this, try that, and uh, if you can't do any of those, just do something that uh you know that comes natural to you. It's about uh coming into action, I think. Um, and um yeah, yeah, I love that, I really love that.

SPEAKER_00:

So in the last episode, we got through the first three, I believe. Four.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, so you have to mention, uh Helen, I think that the Yama and the Niyama we we didn't really capture because you have already uh recorded an episode or two about those.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, I've done a previous episode which I've linked in the in the show notes of that part one of this one, because the yamas and niyamas in in themselves, it's just so much that you can talk about, and again, it's like a really practical code to live by, isn't it? It's literally yeah, and and so applicable to to modern life. Yeah, so that was number one, the yamas and the niyamas. Um and these are we can just say in brief attitudes and behaviors towards yourself and those around you and your environment. Yeah, so that's the yeah, thank you, the yamas and the niamas, and then we looked at asana, what everyone is familiar with.

SPEAKER_01:

We every asana is a yoga posture, and we looked a little bit uh into yeah what it means and uh how it uh how it is relevant and um yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Actually, we went quite more deeply than I thought we would into asana because, like all of these things, the layers of the onion, you know, you get in there and it's like, well, actually, it not only does this, but it does this, this, and this. And and I thought listening back to the episode, that really the overarching conclusion that we came to is it really helps. It's like a the body is a vehicle for developing the mind.

SPEAKER_01:

That's right. The mind is subtle and it is very difficult to to deal with, to grasp, it's very fast as well, and it is very tricky as well. So it's difficult for us to see what is, what truly is, and not what we think is. And uh the the body is like you said, it's a vehicle, it's an entry point for us, and because the body is very tangible for us, we can move it, we can feel it, so it is uh yeah, an easy accessible point uh where we can start, where we can experience and can feel.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I love that part of our conversation actually, because I think everyone can relate to that. And then the third limb is uh pranayam, pranayama.

SPEAKER_01:

That's right, pranayama.

SPEAKER_00:

In a nutshell, can you describe if we have anything?

SPEAKER_01:

Well it's it's how to a prana is the the the life force, the sort of the cosmic energy or the life sparks or what we breathe in, but what we also comes in in other ways, so through the eyes, for example. And uh pranayama is uh managing that uh life force, this prana energy to our um to our advantage, you know, to be able to direct it in the body. And um pranayam is uh that everything relates to the breath, breathing techniques as we know them from yoga practices, um, alternate nostril breathing um or um just three-part breath. I think everything uh you can develop into a pranayam which is guiding the breath or or leading it, directing it, and um um potentially doesn't go into more depth than just what it does, it brings absolute clarity to uh to our mind, it's he says it or they say it lifts the veil that uh that keeps this uh sort of cloud um around us so that we can't see as clearly as we could.

SPEAKER_00:

Again, it's using the body to develop mind self-awareness, isn't it? But it's next level.

SPEAKER_01:

It's it's again it's the next level, it is uh it is more subtle again, and we also talked about how the body needs a little bit prepared for this uh for sitting and breathing only. Um the body needs to be able to be stiller, not fidget around.

SPEAKER_00:

So, yes, and we also talked about which I thought was quite relevant for today. Um, we talked a little bit about the difference between breathwork and pranayam, um which many people they they confuse the two, and actually I think you you really clarified that beautifully, so thank you. And I think that's quite important. Um, that pranayama is um a slow, softer, gentler approach, whereas breathwork um is is a very different approach to each kind of altered states.

SPEAKER_01:

So maybe I don't know, maybe the the purposes are different, you know. The the yoga always comes off from that goal of uh bringing the mind and the body and the spirit together, so to experience a kind of uh union or togetherness where we feel like a whole in ourselves and uh and how to get there. And pranayam is one part of many other um things that we can try. Um, but uh but it it has set this bringing much more clarity and uh helping us with that on our way. And um breath work, like I said last time, I don't know enough about breath work to uh to see you know what's what the the actual purpose uh is why it got developed.

SPEAKER_00:

But it is very different, yes, yeah, and I think that's probably like a whole nother episode on its own there. But we did touch on that, so I think it's quite useful if you're interested. Um then we came on to the last four of the eight limbs are more internal, aren't they? The first the first three are really external to do with the your attitudes, your behaviors, the body, the breath, and now we start to really go inwards to the and using the mind.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh now we go inwards with we we we started talking about pratyhara, so the uh control of the senses, but um it is it is really nice to see you know why pratyahara is at that point because we worked with the body, we worked with the breath, and now the sense organs are the last um sort of faculty that is there visible for us, and uh sort of like an entry point where information comes into our uh into our system, and uh pratyahara is about withdrawal of the senses, but um it is with because that sounds or can sound quite scary and restrictive and not very think okay that's what I'm going to try straight away.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, it is um more so what we I think we were talking about, that uh for it to be choosing what comes in and uh what stays out because everything that comes in, every picture we see, every sound that we hear, the food we know, um everything, the touch that we feel, um everything needs to be digested by the mind and uh by um so everything needs to be into yes and no and uh useful and uh don't want to have that. And uh right now we have this absolute flurry of uh of impressions that coming in through uh the eyes, definitely, because we are working uh so much longer on screens, the phone, everything is this sense, and also um with the phone and with what we see, videos or clips, uh they all have sound, and uh we can't switch off the ear. So there's a lot uh coming into the senses, which are in Ayurveda, that's one way where senses get imbalanced is overuse of them. Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_00:

So just before, just before, I was doing some um reading again of the sutras and the lovely commentary. Um, it's the same copy that I got when I was with you, training with you, and it talks about you know, basically training your senses and not allowing your mind to be completely because we are led, and so we should be. That's you know part of our survival instinct, isn't it? You know, oh that's hot, pull your hand away, danger. But um, like you say, we can get so overloaded, can't we? When I was reading the commentary, he really put it very, very, very simply, and he said, Well, you know, we are servants to our own senses, really. But Pratyahara is is about taking control of the senses and training them, and training them to go more inwards and not allow the mind to be carried away, yeah, is what he was saying. I thought that was really you know, you're meditating and your husband is cooking you a delicious dinner, you know, roast chicken or something like that. Ideally, yeah. Wouldn't that be nice? And um you're you're meditating, and all you can your nose is picking up the roast chicken, and then you're thinking about your dinner, and you're suddenly you're not meditating anymore. And the practice, I guess that in my mind, the practice of Pratahara as well, is in its simplest form, is is going, ah, I can smell the raised chicken, but I'm meditating.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, yeah, that's right. You can say it is it's not about sort of stuffing them away because we always need to acknowledge what is because otherwise it comes knocking on our door again and again and again. So to say, okay, we have chicken later for dinner, that's nice, and you go back to your meditation, yeah, and um, and that's it, because thoughts can't be stopped, uh, and uh thoughts arise from the input that we have and uh and and our experiences that we have made. So it's not about um switching them off, it's not about switching the senses off, but to see, you know, we can also see it in a way, we can help the senses. They are there, obviously, and they are all situated here, part our skin, um, because we are like a lighthouse. You know, we can see, we can uh we can hear, we need to look for food and we look for danger for our survival. But um we can also help the senses uh to say, okay, that's a car, and that's it. It drives there, and we don't need to think about where it will go or who is in the car, and um, and any of any of those thoughts that had come, or uh they get connected to past events, and then we are going up into what we experienced then and how this was, and so this internal conversation is fed by uh the senses, but it is also fed by us going with them, you know, yes, and uh not acknowledging them and then moving on. That's why we are curious people, right? So we are, and we think, oh, what's that? And then we need to look, and although we see, I know sometimes I because I'm uh living quite close to uh to an airfield here, so then I hear something, and I think I can clearly identify it's a helicopter, yeah. And but then I need to look, where is it? But from which direction does it come? It's okay, it's a helicopter and it comes from somewhere, going somewhere. What what does it do? Why do I want to see it? You know, why do I have that need to go on the road and look where it comes from and see it? What does it do to me? Nothing really. How does it help me in my day-to-day life? Not at all. So that we that understanding that this is just the nature of that. Yeah, they want to hear, and we they need to, they want to see and they need to to keep us safe, to recognize people, to recognize danger, and to to like go shopping, find food and um and um and other nice things, you know. But uh, yeah, so by choice, we can if we maybe rephrase it in restricting them or withdrawing them in sort of giving them a rest.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's it's about for me, it's about just not actually allowing them to go run their way with you. Because there is there's an element of I don't know, control is the wrong word, yeah. You're it's it's not being led by them all the time, they're important, we need them, they're beautiful, and and if you're looking at um Tantra, you know, Tantra, it's all about the senses. But if we if we just let our minds be completely led by them all the time, um it there would be chaos, and because yoga is concerned with the cessations of the mind stuff calming the mind down, isn't it? That's a massive part of it. That's that's like the beginnings of meditation, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01:

It is, yes, because to to um because yoga has a focus to it, you know, focus is the end goal that gives the focus. And um, and we are also not structured in a way that we are able to multitask. You know, that's not how we can because if we m try to multitask, the mind doesn't know, you know, do I go this way or do I did the what are we doing right now? And it's constantly hopping from one task to the other, and nothing gets done properly. So I I've I think for me yoga is much more honing in to the essence of what everyone feels it's different, you know, what is important to them, how this end goal looks like, um, and but honing in to that uh this skill to get there.

SPEAKER_00:

And all of these, all of these limbs are uh developing, slowly developing skills to move up to different levels of consciousness, different ways of of thinking and being with yourself and the mind.

SPEAKER_01:

Exactly. And also maybe then to open up a little bit to you know focusing the mind also allows it to open space again. Although it seems to be contradictory, but um it it just brings everything to one point, and uh and then there's also space opening up, and we can see maybe bigger pictures, or we can we can see solutions that we can't see when uh when we are in this constant um busyness of the senses, the thoughts, and uh which is maybe a little bit like a jungle, quite and busy and you know.

SPEAKER_00:

And that really circles back around to what you were saying before about being aware of everything that we're being bombarded with, um, and that's because we're taking in so much through the senses these days, um, that circles back around, doesn't it? When you literally limit your screen time and limit what you're consuming, it you know, I went on a retreat very recently, no phones, and it's amazing how quickly you can feel calmer and more spacious and less tired and more creative, and yes, because this it all takes up energy, like for this dealing with arts or digesting this.

SPEAKER_01:

I think lots of these um digestive issues that people have right now is not necessarily all down to food, but it is also down to that the system is just overloaded with too many things that it needs to get the a handle on and needs to process because the system is made, it's its job to process, and um and so it it these gazillions of um inputs uh of visual and audible um is uh is too much, so it needs to go somewhere. It has to be digested. Something needs to, you know, you the energy from some other uh process in the body um get siphoned towards something different.

SPEAKER_00:

And and I think it's um this one is actually uh so interest interesting for now. Um and I I I think it might be quite worth saying that actually we all have so much agents. Over what we consume. And I've said this, I've had some really interesting conversations in the last year about social media and and people saying, Oh, you know, I hate social media and blah blah blah. And I said, Well, it's it's completely curatable. So I only follow who I want to follow. I only interact with who I want to, I only see what I want to see. If something pops up and I don't like it, then I stop it, I block it, or I report it, or I you know don't engage with it at all. And I think some people feel like they're, you know, it's designed to suck you in, isn't it? That it's the dopamine is designed to suck you in, but remembering that you have agency, actually, you have control. Do you know what I mean? Some people really are not, they're like, Oh, it's taking me over. Well, you you're holding the phone, put the phone down, put it down. So look at it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, but and this is the one thing I feel why yoga um but also Ayurveda will always um succeed because both of them they take us or they put us into the driver's seat. They say this is happening, this is happening. If you do that, that's most likely the outcome. And um it is, and like you said, it gives you, it gives us back the um the choice, you know, do we want that or don't we? Because, like you said, we can put the phone down, we can switch it off, we can switch the router off, we can do all sorts of things, but we need to see you know what it does in us, where we think, oh, maybe there's something important coming, you know, maybe there's oh I'm missing out the FOMO, I'm missing out on something, most likely, no, we don't. And uh, and uh so to to see that we actually have control over a lot of what's going on to us.

SPEAKER_00:

I think that's so important that that like you say, putting people back in the driver's seat, you have control, and you know, people um say, Well, I have to use it for work, or I have to do it. That's fair enough. A lot of people do, and but you can still curate that experience, you can still place boundaries, and and there are all sorts of things you can do these days, different apps and different devices that will help you with that as well.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, even if we have notifications coming in, we can see okay, this is okay. I don't need to address that, I don't need to address that, I don't I can do that later, or I don't need to do that at all. Um, or I need to that's why, but it always comes back to us, to see our responsibility, to seeing our uh also the tools, you know, that's what yoga gives you. It gives you tools to um work with that. So um it gives you the body to to to understand more what's happening, to to hone in your skills, to focus, and not to be in triangle person thing of your shopping list, but think of you know how the body holds it all together and um and where to send the breath. And these are transferable skills that we apply there and we learn it there, we also apply it to other areas in our life, but we might not notice that that this slowly develops, but it does.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, definitely. I think that there's um there's a lot to pray and the sutras because we're going into kind of the internal workings of the mind and moving towards meditation, that's the very first step, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01:

Withdrawal of the sense managing those to see that these are the ones that keep us from um from focusing or from from uh coming towards that stage of meditation, um, because we are constantly reacting to them. So once we see this relationship that we have, and we also see how fast this is because our mind is super fast. Yeah, uh, and before we even realize what's happening, we have already gone way into seeing the chicken, smelling the chicken, thinking about the chicken and what we did last year and the year before, and oh, on this and that, and uh, and we have gone, yeah, we don't know even how long, it could be just a few seconds, but it uh um yeah, yeah, yeah, and and it all starts to build a picture of the inner workings of your own mind, you know, what drives you, what distracts you, like you're saying.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you so much for listening to the Be Still and Notice podcast. I really hope you enjoyed this episode and perhaps it even added something to your life. If you know someone that might benefit, please share this episode with them, and of course, a review would be so much appreciated. Please find all the information relating to this episode, including relevant links, in the show notes, and until next time, sending you so much love and light on your path to yoga.