Petite Practice: Dr. Christiane Schroeter

Summary

In this conversation, Dr. Christiana discusses her journey from Germany to the United States, her background in applied economics, and how it intersects with mental health and personal growth. She emphasizes the importance of understanding the mind-body connection, the role of habits in behavior change, and the significance of self-reflection and community in achieving personal and professional goals. The discussion also touches on the challenges of perfectionism and the need for leaders to accept compliments and recognize their achievements.

Takeaways

• Applied economics plays a crucial role in understanding daily financial decisions and mental health.
• The mind-body connection is vital in recognizing how stress and choices impact health.
• Self-reflection is essential for personal growth and understanding one's achievements.
• Perfectionism can hinder progress and acceptance of one's accomplishments.
• Building relationships and community is key to a fulfilling life.
• Small habits can lead to significant changes over time.
• Understanding economics helps in making informed decisions about health and wellness.
• Celebrating small wins can build momentum for future success.

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Transcript

Christian Brim (00:00.31)
Welcome to another episode of The Chris Project. I am your host, Christian Brim. Joining me today, Dr. Christiana, Professor, University of California, San Luis, San Luis Obispo, probably pronounced that incorrectly. Dr. Christiana, welcome to the show.

Christiane (00:00.852)
Okay.

Christiane (00:19.008)
Thank you so much for having me here, Christian. I feel very pampered to be talking to somebody that has a very similar name to myself.

Christian Brim (00:26.252)
Yes, it is a nice coincidence. So I detect a slight German accent. Is that accurate?

Christiane (00:33.304)
Mm-hmm.

It is completely accurate. And that's probably why I love your name so much because my name Christiana is just Christian with an E at the end, but yet the German pronunciation, which is where I'm born, actually pronounced it as Christiana. And so I hear a lot of variations how people pronounce my name, Christian or Christian or anything like that. But audience for you, is Christiana. Thank you so much for asking.

Christian Brim (01:05.26)
Well, absolutely. So how did you make your way from the fatherland to Southern California?

Christiane (01:13.528)
Well, dear audience, this is something that I think is truly inspiring. Sometimes you feel, if I don't do it now, I'm probably never ever going to do this, right? So I came to about the end of my studies at the university in Germany, where I studied close to Frankfurt. Gießen is the name of the city. And I thought, if I don't go now abroad, I'm probably never going to do it. I applied for various study abroad programs.

I went to evening school to really fine tune my languages because my major applied economics wasn't really lending itself to studying abroad. And I took Spanish classes in the evening. I've always been passionate about French, but then of course English was my first language. We started learning that in fifth grade. And so I kind of looked at all three countries and ended up actually

being accepted to the Fulbright exchange program to study in the United States. And I'm really glad that it ended up working out this way because otherwise I've never been able to afford the studies and the fees in the United States. So Fulbright really was my way to go and that's how I made my way into the United States.

Christian Brim (02:15.694)
Nice.

Christian Brim (02:34.7)
Well, living in Southern California, the Spanish probably comes in handy still.

Christiane (02:38.914)
Completely completely and and I also have to point out audience that to this day I keep up my Duolingo streak. I think I'm something like 1495 days in in picking up my still learning my French language. So even if you live in a place where you don't necessarily see the native speakers on a day to day, there's still ways for you to of course interact.

Christian Brim (02:49.966)
you're shaming me. You're shaming me.

Christiane (03:05.506)
with a language that you're passionate about. And of course it's something fun for yourself because you fine tune a skill that you don't necessarily use on a daily basis. So it's broadening your horizon much more.

Christian Brim (03:20.194)
Love that. So what are you a doctor of? Besides philosophy. mean, that's the PhD.

Christiane (03:24.024)
Beautiful. Yeah. So I earned my PhD in applied economics. I earned my PhD from Purdue University. And now, of course, for you, audiences might be like, of course, this makes sense. She studied in Indiana where it's cold because she's from Germany. probably completely had a great time there. I have to tell you that living in the Midwest where I my PhD and coming from Germany,

Definitely made me realize that I am not a person, a lover of cold weather. So now I'm living in California because of exactly that reason. I much more preferred like the 75 temperatures and the Palm trees swinging and I'm fine not seeing snow on a daily basis.

Christian Brim (04:13.43)
Yeah, yes, the the general migration of humanity is south but it is fat or north if you're in the southern hemisphere But I find it fascinating how many people still choose to live in the cold, but whatever so how how is it that applied economics applies to entrepreneurship and this this conversation that we have around mindset mental health, etc

Christiane (04:27.724)
Yeah.

Christiane (04:43.288)
Beautiful.

Christian Brim (04:43.822)
Because on the surface of it, I'm like, I don't see the connection, but I know you do.

Christiane (04:49.088)
that question. So first of all, if you think about your day to day choices, it's very much driven by price and by your income level. We started chatting offline about living in Southern California and how expensive that is. And from the surface, of course, it's great to live in California. But being here, can honestly tell you it is really a financial decision on a day to day basis, just because it is so expensive.

Christian Brim (04:55.182)
Mm.

Christiane (05:18.616)
So there comes your economics in handy already. Now, the reason why I chose California might answer your second part of the question about the mindset and the mental health and building your ability to be a good leader. For me to live here was really where I felt I was actually tuning into my value proposition and my unique value. I finally felt I became the person who I was supposed to be.

because of the environment that I was in and the way that I connected with people that are living here and the values that they have. while we're always driven by prices and by income, at the same time, we also have to take care of ourselves and become the best leaders in the world that we can and show up on a day-to-day basis. And that's really, for me, what was very true.

And on top of that, before I even came to United States, I have a bachelor's degree in foods and nutrition. And I am, everybody tells me that. So I'm just going to use the word that they use, a complete health nut to this day. So I love talking about health wellness mindset because my day-to-day decisions are very much driven by those particular values.

Christian Brim (06:26.446)
Hmm.

Christian Brim (06:38.68)
Yeah, we were just having this discussion as a leadership team. were discussing the book, Atomic Habits, and how one of the key aspects of changing behavior is surrounding yourself with other people that are like-minded. So totally understand that shift to Southern California for you. So I...

Christiane (06:48.152)
Beautiful.

Christian Brim (07:07.534)
I'm going to ask a question. I don't know if you will want to answer it or will answer it. How, how, what's the intersection of being a food nut, self self described or a health nut, sorry, not food, not health, not and applied economics like that. That's an interesting question to me.

Christiane (07:33.048)
Beautiful.

Christiane (07:37.378)
Yeah. So, and I love that because audience, if you kind of peel back the curtain of who is Dr. Christiana, you're actually going to see multiple little stones in my journey to where I am today. If you think about a river, when I crossed that river, there were these stones that I built the ladder, the prongs and the ladder. So my dissertation was actually on health economics, obesity.

Christian Brim (07:54.573)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (07:58.094)
Hmm.

Christian Brim (08:06.53)
Hmm, okay.

Christiane (08:06.752)
And that means I looked at how do price and income choices impact what you actually pick up in a grocery store and put in your shopping cart. Right. So when you look at a price tag on a shelf and coming in with the wallet that you have, the income that you have, how do those decisions really impact what you end up buying, what you end up eating and how your health is actually reflecting those decisions? So my dissertation.

Christian Brim (08:19.182)
Mm-hmm.

Christiane (08:36.76)
how price and income changes impact obesity ended up winning the award at Purdue University for that particular year because it was so unique crossing health and economics in a way that I built a model that tied exactly price and income changes to body weight changes that it really was a complete novel idea. So I love your question about this because I think

as a coach and as a leadership strategist, that's always been something that I'm trying to do. Build the intersection of two areas and really find my niche in that intersection and merging different areas to something that's unique, but at the same time that also combines values that I feel are really important to being the best you.

Christian Brim (09:29.036)
I've observed entrepreneurs and experienced personally over the years the the impact of You know your body health to your mental health and and and the symbiosis there and and one of the observations I have is is that like It seems like a lot of times when entrepreneurs are experiencing some type of mental health

crisis, it affects their weight. Usually they put on weight. like, I guess I would go to this statement of if you're putting on weight and not intending to as an entrepreneur, that's a red flag, something's wrong. Would you agree with that statement?

Christiane (10:22.622)
That's a great question. So I have a couple of answers for that. So one is we never really know exactly what your body goes through. Right. So it could be experiencing trauma or stress from something today. It could also be something that you experienced a decade or even maybe two decades ago, your past experiences. So it could be the past, the present.

Or it could be something that you've really worried about in the future. And that thought of the future deadline or stress or whatever you have coming up is impacting your choices today. So as an economist, you always have to think a little bit of like, hold on, what is really going on? And I call this like looking down, like really becoming more in tuned with where you are today and not worry about the past and the future as much.

And I think that sometimes really helps to put everything on pause and maybe even like keeping, whether that's a food diary, a stress diary, a diary of things where your thoughts start to spiral and really kind of figuring out how, how does my health really get impacted by these micro decisions that I make every day, things that I eat, that I drink, things that I do, how I behave myself. And I think that sometimes really

leads to very surprising results. So it's not necessarily always that you can pinpoint it. Oh, I just eat unhealthy. It could also be that maybe you just don't move as much anymore. Maybe you don't sleep well. Maybe, you know, there is, there is something that really anchors into your stress level that starts just for you to behave differently because at the end of the day, food decisions just impact about a third.

of your body weight and everything else. There is so much more underlying to it is something that you have to become your own investigator, right? I kind of like become like the, the person that has to really sit down and fine tune with yourself. What's really going on, which is why I say it's sometimes best looking down, fine tuning and keeping a food and stress diary. And I just did that for three days. had a really hard time.

Christiane (12:49.4)
You know, just on Friday, one of my friends passed away. And so I thought to myself, this is a really big stressful moment. So I'm going to actually kind of pause and I'm going to reflect what my body needs right now. And I think that helped me. So looking back now, you know, that's been four days. I think that was the very best thing I could do to heal and get over this very difficult moment in my life.

Christian Brim (13:14.498)
Well, I am I'm sorry for your friend's passing. think I guess what I was getting at is that your body it could be weight gain. It could be panic attacks. could be lethargy, depression, you know, it could be a number of things. But that that that mind body connection.

I read somewhere, I don't remember the percentage, but like 70 % of the total of your nerves in your body are between your brain and your digestive system. And you can correct me if I'm wrong on that percentage, but just this idea that there's so much that's hardwired into our body that connects those two, that if something's not right there, it...

could be an indicator that there's something not right in your head. Would you agree with that statement?

Christiane (14:18.794)
Yeah, I like your addition to what I just said, that it's really something that we, I mean, the hardest thing to change in your body is really the area between your two ears, right? The brain, the thinking, the mental spiral that you might go through. And that is definitely the decision maker for how your digestive system, how your body then behaves.

Christian Brim (14:33.486)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Christiane (14:48.888)
So for you to really fine tune how healthy you are, it has to start with your own mind being willing to do that and kind of saying, all right, I think the cost of being where I'm at tend to get higher than maybe the benefit of changing. So I think I'm ready to do this right now. And that's really, really important because you could say all day long, yeah, I think I want to do this. I want to eat that. But then

Christian Brim (14:49.026)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (15:10.401)
Mm-hmm.

Christiane (15:18.516)
you just internally are not ready yet. So for you, it has to become so uncomfortable to stay where you are, to where you feel, all right, this is just has to end. And at that point you want to be ready.

Christian Brim (15:22.345)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (15:33.326)
Yes, I yes, I want to I want to pause for a second and clarify. So I think a lot of people have misconceptions about what economics is, especially if they don't have any exposure to it. And from looking at the voting patterns of the American people, they have a fundamental lack of knowledge of economics. How would you describe economics in terms of, you know,

Just for our audience like a basic what is economics? How would you explain it?

Christiane (16:09.208)
Yeah, economics really ties down to external signals that are mostly tied to, as I mentioned, prices, income. So they are monetary or financial signals, but they impact your day to day decisions and they impact your day to day life and your structure. So it is, I always say we have multiple variables, but they're always constrained subject to your income level.

So you can live a wonderful life, but at the same time, it is constrained by your budget, by your income level that you experience on a monthly or weekly basis. So economic decisions are very much driven by external factors and of course, what you bring to the table in terms of your income level.

Christian Brim (17:01.294)
So would you accept the fact, would you accept the description of replacing decisions with human behavior? like, I mean to me at the end of the day, economics is a method of applying constraints to human behavior. And I think one of the things that's fascinating to me is, and I

I absolutely do not mean this as an insult. But economics to me is it's trying to apply science to something that doesn't necessarily have a scientific pattern, a predictable pattern. mean, there to me, I always, I always found like, when you're looking at macro economics, and you know, just basic concepts of supply and demand.

Christiane (17:42.232)
Thank you.

Christian Brim (17:59.596)
Yes, it follows a pattern. But when you get down to an individual, they don't necessarily follow that pattern. And all of the quote, irrational, end quote, decisions that individuals make inside that paradigm, it's oftentimes more like reading tea leaves. you're trying to

explain in a rational way an irrational being. What do you say to that?

Christiane (18:33.88)
Christian, I love this question because I think you're exactly finding the crux of economics. So economics think of this as like black and white, and we have these structures, but at the same time, that's not how humans behave. They are like rainbows over here, like little butterflies. I'm just going to make this decision. So if you think, for instance, that I very much.

Christian Brim (18:48.739)
Right.

Christiane (19:03.806)
I am the person that knows because I have worked as a dietitian and I teach economics and I've worked with people that want to improve their lifestyle and their leadership style. I always say, you know what it takes to lose weight and to live healthy. It's nothing new. And if you don't, you can easily find it out on the internet. So what do you need me for? And then it's most of the time because

Christian Brim (19:24.952)
Right.

Christiane (19:32.524)
What is missing is exactly what you're pointing out that despite all the information and all the knowledge, it comes down to I need somebody that changes my habits because my habits are really what drive my behavior and they are not rational at all. I know that if I want to be healthy in the summer, I should probably start right now because we're nearly in March and the summer is only three months away. Right. But at the same time,

I just don't feel like it today. And so to make the decision that you're going to change your behavior tomorrow, you will need a coach that helps you with that. And that is really where economics intersects with human behavior that you in order to change the human mindset, the habits that you already have so much ingrained in your behavior, those atomic habits. I actually have a trademark on this that I call petite practice. You

Christian Brim (20:30.898)
I like that.

Christiane (20:31.498)
Most of the time cannot start with big goals, but you need to start with small habits, which is why I call it petite practice with small little steps. And then you really can change your human behavior. It's nearly like you want to open a door and you come with this big padlock with this big key and you're like, I just can't lift it. It's so heavy. Right. And then I'm saying, well, how about this? How about we put like a little ladder there and each

little step of that ladder allows you to get closer to that lock and put that very heavy key in there. And that's really what petite practice is. It's small steps that allow you to change big impact at the end of the day.

Christian Brim (21:15.406)
I love that. This great alliteration. Are you familiar with Dr. Matthew Cutts? Have you read his book Contextual Intelligence? Okay, well, I had him on the show and the discussion, I'd like to recap it and get your opinion on it. So when we think about the future,

Christiane (21:29.676)
not.

Christian Brim (21:45.182)
and what we want the future to be and how we want it to be different. The missing ingredient in his mind is looking at the things that how you are going to be different in the future, not the external things being different. like if you want, you know, a new home or you want a new job or you you know, if you're an entrepreneur, you have some some goal.

When you think about that, we don't think about how we're going to be different in the future. And translating that change back to the present and what are we going to do differently today to make ourselves different in the future seems to tie into what you're describing. So what are your thoughts?

Christiane (22:42.904)
For me, the most important question would be how far in the future are we thinking? Because there's a big difference whether we are thinking five, 10 years, or we are thinking tomorrow. My petite practice ties in with we're taking action today, we're taking action tomorrow. So I love thinking about the future. At the same time, I'm also a person

that is a complete go-getter. And I know that the very best day to change your behavior is today. It's not tomorrow. It's not in next month or three weeks or something like that. It is today. And so for me, the future is really kind of an abstract concept that is nearly like a moving target in economics, right? I'm like, I want to be rich in the future. All right. So what are you going to do about it today?

Christian Brim (23:19.49)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (23:32.009)
Right.

Christiane (23:40.524)
That is how I think.

Christian Brim (23:42.722)
Yeah. And I, I like what you said there because realistically, I mean, my experience is the human mind is not good at grasping the future, past very, I don't know what the time period is, but you, mentioned five or 10 years. mean, like the reality is that so much will have changed between now and then that we don't even know.

You know, like you could get sick, you could lose a spouse, you know, like whatever that that the idea of planning for the future is is a very nebulous thing. and, and, and that's kind of what Dr. Cutts was alluding to is that like, if you're, if you're just thinking about the future in general terms, you're dreaming, which is fine to dream. But, but if you don't bring it back into the present, it's

It's completely, I say completely useless, but it's not effective in changing whatever potential future you have.

Christiane (24:51.384)
So the way that I look at this and again my pity practice is let's say the future it's five years. In five years you want to reach a certain goal and that's a big chunk. It's like whoa that's you know five times 365 days that's a lot. So the way that I do it is I take the five times 365 days and instead of looking at this big rock of five years

I actually spread out all those rocks five times 365 in front of me. And I said, all right, each of those days we're going to take action. And while I don't want to hear your decision right now of what you're doing on each of these individual days that spreads over the course of five years, I would like to know the very first rock that you pick up right now, that day one rock, what you're going to do on that one. And if you can, and if you did that one, I want to know day two rock.

And we're going to keep this going. And so in essence, if you think about a balance, right? A scale with two sides, it's the exact same weight, five years, five times 365 days. It weighs exactly the same, but instead of again, like big chunk where I don't know how to get started and I feel stuck and overwhelmed. I just have like these tiny rocks that are all accumulated and

That is really how I see that a lot of my clients, my students and leaders that I work with have seen momentum. That even under days when they have a lot of pressure, they still see momentum because the cause of action is small enough that they can do it today.

Christian Brim (26:34.882)
Yes, I can concur with that. The other concept he talked about was hindsight. So that was foresight. Talking about hindsight and what's effective versus not effective is rumination, which is to me reflecting on the emotional side of it and the failure and the feelings around that as opposed to an analytical

analysis of the decision that you made, or the things that you could control you couldn't control, to bring again back into the present to make your decisions better. So it sounds like you touch on that as well. What are your thoughts?

Christiane (27:24.83)
great question. And if you haven't watched my TEDx talk, I talk about this particular concept in my TEDx talk, because I'm a firm believer in the rumination that you mentioned in the hindsight idea. So if you think I want to reach this goal in five years, the very best way to get there is that you actually first take a look back and you look at, okay, what worked, what didn't work?

Christian Brim (27:39.084)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (27:51.448)
Mm.

Christiane (27:55.58)
And what maybe is something that I should completely discard because that was just a complete crazy idea. And on every single level, you need to be completely okay with the fact that you focus more on what worked because that's really what builds momentum and you celebrate those small wins. And even though sometimes it seems funny to like at the end of the day, look back and think, all right today, right. Hindsight.

Christian Brim (28:18.168)
Mm-hmm.

Christiane (28:25.367)
What is it really that I accomplished? If you keep praising those small moments, that's really how you build momentum. So in a certain way, we talked earlier about the rocks and how we're crossing the river. It's nearly like you're getting into the river and you're like, whoa, this is like way more water than I ever anticipated. And I'm like, right in the middle of it. And you look forward and you're like, and it's such a long way to go. I can't believe I even made this decision.

Christian Brim (28:42.923)
Right.

Christiane (28:50.857)
It's like you're looking down. You're like, okay, well, I am on solid ground. I'm on standing on these rocks. And then you take a look back and you're like, and I did a really good job. These rocks back there are still there. So somebody could actually follow me and cross the river right after me because I'm building this beautiful path. And then you also maybe took a look back and you see, how did I place those rocks right there is a really nice job because I kind of anchored them there. So they actually not getting floated away. And that's really what we do.

that we think as leaders is like, let's take a look back and see what worked. What is it really that I can use in the future that builds on the momentum from the past? And then you become a much better leader because you become aware of your actions.

Christian Brim (29:34.678)
Yeah, it might I don't it may have been Dan Sullivan that wrote the book The Gap and the Gain. You know, yeah, and and and and I know from my experience, and and a lot of my colleagues, there's, there's not nearly enough focus on the gain. Like where we're, you know, looking back at the rocks and what you have achieved, what you have accomplished, you know, celebrating that.

Christiane (29:39.767)
Beautiful.

Christian Brim (30:04.168)
It's still, you know, even with all of the work that I've done, I have trouble with that. Like, not with the gratitude piece necessarily of like being grateful for what has been done, but just giving myself maybe the grace to say that you did well, right?

That's something I still struggle with. I assume you come across leaders that suffer from the same.

Christiane (30:43.671)
So this is a reaction question. You did well. And then the reaction is, no, it was nothing. It's like, why are you saying this? This was great. I mean, just say thank you so much. I really appreciate your kind words. This is Dale Carnegie that already said that, right? That you don't deflect a compliment, but you actually reflect on it. Why is this person saying it? And then you kind of appreciate it and you reflect it with grace.

Christian Brim (30:52.174)
Hmm.

Christian Brim (30:55.756)
Right.

Christian Brim (30:59.662)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (31:13.388)
Yeah, so why is it hard? Why is that hard for some leaders to accept that?

Christiane (31:20.161)
think that sometimes it even comes down to the fact that you hadn't even thought about it yourself. So when this person is seeing it, it's nearly like an automatic response. Like when somebody asks you how are you and you're like, I'm fine. I'm thank you. And they're like, am I actually really fine? You haven't really thought about this, right? So somebody says you did a really good job on this project. You're like, yeah, no, this is nothing. And then you think, did I do a good job? Kind of like you didn't even take the time after completion to really sit down.

Christian Brim (31:25.678)
Hmm.

Christian Brim (31:36.504)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (31:45.411)
Mm-hmm.

Christiane (31:49.439)
and reflect on your own behavior. So when this other person brings it up, it's nearly like a reminder to yourself that you just moved on and you put that to the side. That is really the behavior that I see. And I do it on a monthly basis. You can even break it down to a weekly basis. Let's say every Sunday afternoon, you look at your week ahead and you look at your past week and you kind of see, all right, what was really great in the past week? What's coming up in the week ahead?

and what worked in the past week that I can use in the week ahead. So leaders that don't do that, there's that automatic kind of response. And some people also think that not getting the compliment kind of like it makes you look like, I'm like, I don't want to take the compliment. They just want to appear humble. Where at the same time, I nearly think it doesn't seem very authentic because it makes the person giving the compliment kind of uncomfortable.

Right. You give somebody a compliment. The person is like, now it's like nothing. It's like, no, actually it was really good. And then it's awkward back and forth, right. To where I think if you really accept the compliment, you are actually in the driver's seat and letting the other person know I did do the reflection. And I do really appreciate you and your thoughtfulness and reaching out to me and letting me know. And at the same time, I always say pay it forward. All right. So somebody just complimented you.

Christian Brim (33:16.055)
Mm.

Christiane (33:17.867)
Thank you so much. I really appreciate your kind words. And then think, all right, hold on. So now I have this compliment thing in my hands. Whom could I reach out to and let them know how much I appreciate their work, their kindness, just for being there and pass it on? Because I mean, I always say what comes around goes around, right? You have to reach out to others. If others are kind to you, it feels good.

Christian Brim (33:41.134)
Mm-hmm.

Christiane (33:45.619)
and appreciate their words and then do the same thing for others. You don't know what they're going through on that day. That might be the best thing on their day if you let them know how amazing they are and the work that they do as

Christian Brim (33:58.082)
Yeah, I think for me the inability to reflect positively on what I have done, you know, it was just always easier to default to what's next. Like without that reflection of what I had done and had accomplished that was positive.

You know, I can understand not wanting to reflect on on your mistakes. I mean, that that makes sense because you don't want to think about that or dwell on it or ruminate on it. But but not not giving yourself credit and reflecting on what you've you have accomplished. I think that leads to a dark place as well because it and for me it has been

understanding this, compulsion that I had this behavior that I had of, of thinking that I was not sufficient, that there was something, wrong with me. Yeah. And, and I, I don't, I don't know that that's not a universal condition. It's not just entrepreneurs.

But for entrepreneurs, myself and others that I've gone on this journey with, just accepting that you are okay, flawed, not saying perfect, like whatever it is that you do and accomplish is not gonna fill, it's never gonna be enough to fill that gap to say, you know, I'm okay.

Christiane (35:55.447)
Actually, I am completely on the same boat with you there. I think that deep down, most entrepreneurs are perfectionists and that if you accomplish something that's really amazing, it's very easy as a perfectionist to think, well, but I also could have done it this way and kind of like look at the little things that maybe were not part of this particular accomplishment. And of course, this leads to like the vicious negative

cycle of thoughts. Let me give you an example. So after I stepped off the stage, giving my TEDx talk, I felt it went really well. But my first thoughts, Christian, were like, I think it could have been even better. And I don't know how it really went. And the difficult thing is nobody in the audience is allowed to record you or take pictures of you. So you just have to rely on what people tell you.

Because you're like, was that good? Did I do good? Yeah, yeah. And there was no picture, there's no recordings. You can't like scroll through people's phones and like look at it. And we are so used to the immediate gratification of like, I did something, let me check out how that went. And so I didn't know. And so everybody said, no, this was actually really great, Christiana. And I was like,

Christian Brim (37:08.334)
Mmm.

Christiane (37:18.759)
And I remember sitting in the car, driving back from the Ted X event. And my friend called me and she said, you should be so proud of yourself. And I said, I am proud of myself, but somehow I would like to see how it actually went. So then when the video came out and I watched it, that same friend called me again. And while she was on the phone, I put her on speakerphone and I watched the YouTube recording with her on the Ted X talk and actually started crying. And she was crying on the phone.

Because I realized it was really good. just somehow had confidently questioned myself because of this moment being so important in my life that I didn't even know how it actually was from the audience point of view. So it's very much an entrepreneurship issue that when we do take action and we step on stages, we write books, we coach.

Christian Brim (37:50.51)
Mmm.

Christiane (38:17.527)
clients that we tend to think about all these little elements that were involved in this and whether they all lined up and making it perfect. And we just wanted it to be like this beautiful star that's like completely gleaming and beautiful at the same time. That's not really the point. The point is that you accomplished what you came to do and everything else you can't control anymore. And I think that sometimes entrepreneurs don't realize that it's like at that point it was done.

Christian Brim (38:26.232)
Mm.

Christiane (38:46.881)
There's nothing I could control. It was done. I should have just focused on that. What can I control is how I can react. I can't control anymore. What happened? It was a beautiful talk and I'm very proud about it. And I think that it's especially now you mentioned that earlier, we are so used to like looking immediately at pictures or looking at videos, anything that sometimes it's good to be patient and to sit down and reflect on how did that actually.

Christian Brim (38:49.152)
Right, right.

Christian Brim (39:16.91)
Well, yes. And to your point, I wanted to make the comment perfection is an illusion because you I mean, we understand that intellectually, but like, what, how would you even define perfection? Right? Like, but, but to your point, I remember one of my friends from college coming up to me 20 years later.

And he's like, you remember this conversation? And I'm like, no, I honestly don't. but he said, you really had an impact on me and I didn't know about it for 20 years and it's possible. It's very probable that there are things that I have done that I will never know the impact of. Yes. Because

I think at the end of the day, you know, me being 55, how I'm choosing to live my life now is leaning into that, that I, it's the impact of what I say and do, I'm never really going to know. So focusing on

what I can control, which is how do I show up for people? How do I treat people? How do I serve people? Because at the end of the day, perfection is not the goal, even if it ever was a goal to begin with.

Christiane (40:59.479)
Beautiful. Yeah. And it actually ties in with another one of my favorite books. talk a lot about books here today, but yeah, I read about a book per week. So there it goes. I'm just going to put that out there. That book that I really care about is called, the good life or a good life. And in this book, two researchers had assessed with the biggest longitudinal study in the whole world. What makes a good life?

for somebody. Is it money? Is it career? Is it just reading, reaching certain positions in your life? Is it location? And they assess that it's none of these. It's actually the people that you spend time with, the friendships, especially the quality of the friendships. So perfectionism is never really something you can accomplish.

Christian Brim (41:45.614)
Hmm.

Christiane (41:56.297)
And I love this saying by Audrey Hepburn that's actually saying imperfect just means that I'm perfect. You have to always look at yourself, the friends that you have, the friendships that you form. Nothing of that is like ever exposed to the scrutiny of is that perfect because it's something that builds your life and makes you richer. And that's really what it comes down to.

Christian Brim (41:56.429)
No.

Christiane (42:23.595)
like the whole illusion of perfectionism, don't even apply this lens to your life because it's just going to make you unhappy and it's not going to lead to a good life. I think.

Christian Brim (42:31.65)
Yeah, yeah, because most of the things you can't control. and I find this paradigm too, we worry about the things and have anxiety about the things that we can't control, and at the same time ignore the things that we can control. We avoid those things.

Christiane (42:36.671)
Completely.

Christiane (42:49.369)
yeah, another good book. them. Yeah. The let them theory, right. By Mel Robbins. Another good book. and, the good life book is by Robert Waldinger. Beautiful book. So again, mean, like some things you just have to kind of shake them off and you just have to say, you know what? I can't control that right now. So why am I even worried about this? You're ruminating that you talked about, should be really reflecting on what is it that

I did that I can change today, tomorrow, the day after and everything else is just circumstantial and things that are out of my own reach. And that's not something you have to worry about. You have to worry about how you show up everything else. That's just like, it's just life. Yeah.

Christian Brim (43:39.586)
You can't control it. Absolutely. Dr. Christina, how do people find you and learn more about working with you?

Christiane (43:49.623)
Yeah. So first check out my podcast. Happy healthy hustle. You can find that everywhere you can find podcasts. And of course also on YouTube under my YouTube channel, Dr. Christiana actually going to turn three on the 23rd of March. So I'm really excited about celebrating that big event. And then you can check out my books on Amazon.

Dr. Christiana, I have four different books that are selling and you can find all that on my website at dr christiana.com.

Christian Brim (44:24.962)
Beautiful. Listeners will have all of those links in the show notes. If you like what you've heard, please rate the podcast, share the podcast, subscribe to the podcast. Until next time, remember you are not alone.