Piece Of Mind Podcast
Welcome to Piece of Mind, where we piece together the parts of your mind to help you live a life that’s authentic, unapologetic, and absolutely fulfilling.
I’m your host Ashley Badman, a mindset coach and psychology student, here to guide you through the world of subconscious re-programming, relationships, belief systems, and patterns.
This isn’t your typical mindset podcast. We’re diving deep into the core of who you are, tackling everything from self-sabotage and people-pleasing to attachment styles and beyond. We’ll uncover the deeper shit that makes you who you are, so you can grow, evolve, and build a life you’re obsessed with.
Expect a mix of evidence-based insights, energetic shifts, and a touch of chaos as we explore how to heal, optimize, and re-program your life.
This podcast is for those who refuse to settle, who are committed to living life fully and getting the best for themselves.
Get ready for straight talk, practical strategies, and a few surprises along the way. If you’re ready to stop hiding from yourself and start living unapologetically, you’re in the right place. Tune in and let’s get into it.
Piece Of Mind Podcast
Ep 22: Jessica Ella on Overcoming Childhood Trauma and the Power of Healing
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Episode Show Notes:
Jessica Ella shares her transformative journey from surviving abuse to becoming a healing expert and advocate for others. Through her story and the launch of her children's book, she encourages open dialogue about body safety and empowerment.
• Jessica's experiences with childhood abuse and its impact on her life
• Her journey towards healing and the techniques she employs
• The significance of the children's book "Secret or Surprise"
• Importance of educating children about body safety and appropriate touch
• Overcoming internal family dynamics and rebuilding relationships
• Tips for parents on discussing sensitive topics with their children
Welcome back to the Peace of Mind podcast.
Speaker 1:Wow, wow, wow. You guys, this episode that you're about to listen to is absolutely incredible. If you can listen to this whole episode in full, without pausing, without coming back to find the time to sit down and truly listen to the words of this powerful, powerful podcast, because when I was recording it, when I was interviewing this person, I honestly was just getting cold shivers. The story, the impact, how empowering and inspiring and brave this person is is going to absolutely blow your mind, just like it did for me. I will put on this podcast a bit of a trigger warning. We do speak about things like suicidal thoughts, sexual abuse, child sexual abuse, domestic violence and topics of that nature. So if you feel that that is something that you are not going to be able to handle listening to, or it's going to trigger you, it's going to bring things up for you that maybe you aren't ready for, then possibly don't listen to this podcast. So I had the pleasure of interviewing jessica ella. She is a woman's healing expert, a speaker, a podcast host and the founder of the arruka Healing Modality. In the last five years she has worked with thousands of women one-on-one to help them transform their pain into power. Jess really prides herself on not just being a healer because she has learned from a textbook, but because she has been through the deep soul level pain that most people can't even relate to, and she has come out the other side absolutely thriving.
Speaker 1:In this conversation we dive into the moment that Jess realized there were things that she needed to heal, what process actually took place after that realization and what she was actually healing from. What is her story? Her story with sexual abuse from the age of three until the age of 12, the abuse from her dad and the abuse also from a family member. Jess is so open and candid in her experiences but really dives into her healing journey, what actually helped her, and she's incredibly honest when she's talking about this. We also dive into the release of her book, which is coming out very, very soon, which is a children's book all about helping children identify sexual abuse and have a safe space and be able to actually speak about what is occurring to them, which I just think is absolutely incredible. To turn her pain into her passion and her power and to want to help other people has truly inspired me, has truly touched my heart, and I'm just really, really grateful to have Jess come and have this conversation with us and ask her to be inspired and empowered by her journey.
Speaker 1:Welcome back to the Peace of Mind podcast. As I was saying in the introduction, we have an absolutely incredible guest on. Her story is super empowering. We are so lucky that we have her here sharing her story with us. Welcome, jess. I have to ask you the question. I say this every time because I know people are like oh, I hate this question because what do I say? But can you tell us a bit about yourself and introduce yourself so the listeners can know who you are?
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, I do struggle with that because it's like where do you start and how much do you include and all the things. So my name is Jessica Alla. My actual name is Jessica Alla Ainsworth. Alla is my middle name, but it's just become my name now my stage name.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I have been in the healing industry. I've been obsessed with the healing industry for about 15 years, like learning, studying, doing all different certifications and things like that. I launched into healing about five years ago, working full time with people one on one. So, yeah, I do healing work with people. What I do is like a little bit, a little bit different, a little bit complicated to explain, but, um, yeah, I basically do trauma healing. So I focus a lot around trauma work with people with complex trauma, ptsd, a lot of sexual trauma, things that are traditionally really difficult to heal from and that people find like a lot of a lot of trouble healing from and can't really find someone to help them.
Speaker 2:I like absolutely froth being that person. That is just like I've got them. I've got that piece of the puzzle for you. So that was. I always wanted to work with people that, yeah, like had those really big, intense traumas and then off the back of that, I created the certification so I teach theory certification now where I teach people how to do what I do. So that's kind of like my business bio, I guess. Like, personally, I'm a mom, I've got two boys, I am divorced, I have an ex-husband, I have a current new partner who is beautiful, his name's Gav and I live on the Mornington Peninsula, near the beach and in Victoria and and yeah, that's kind of my, that's where I'm at.
Speaker 1:You did a great job. That was very good. I always like watching people. I'm like, oh, I feel I hate asking the question, cause I'm like it's such a like people are so complex and there's so many things about you that you know are so amazing and contribute to who you are as a person and being a mom and a partner and a business owner and all the things, and it's like please cram that into 25 seconds while you introduce yourself. And it's really hard. But you did a really good job.
Speaker 1:I really want to know, like something you said there about the big trauma and the big things that you like helping people with and, I guess, the harder things to heal from. Firstly, hats off to you for wanting to help people with that, cause I feel like it can be such a heavy thing and I feel like a lot of people shy away from helping people with that because of how heavy it can be for yourself to, I guess, hear what people have experienced and take that on and really feel that for yourself and then want to actually help them heal and take them through that process and obviously, because it is bigger trauma, it is a longer process and you do really have to hold people through that. I really would love to know what made you made the decision to be like. This is the thing that I want to help people with, and this is what I want to dedicate my life to.
Speaker 2:It's so funny because I made the decision that I wanted to help people with this big trauma and I wanted to focus on it long before I actually kind of started dealing with my own big trauma. So, unconsciously, it was because I was carrying some shit that I didn't think anybody would be able to handle and that was too big and that was too intense. And so there was like a part of me that I wasn't kind of aware of that was really drawn to trauma and was drawn to this, probably, to be completely honest, at the time, out of like this place of like almost trauma reenactment, which is like where you're kind of like drawn to people or situations or movies or whatever that are like triggering you back into your own trauma to keep you in this like chaotic state because it feels normal. So it was probably a part of me that was really drawn to working with trauma because it was traumatizing and I was used to being traumatized, but I didn't really kind of recognize that. I just knew that I was obsessed with trauma and I wanted to know everything about it.
Speaker 2:Um, and yeah, it was just like it was almost like this, like it's not, like it was a conscious decision, it was like this pool, like it was just like I remember saying to my mom after I did my first healing course, which was like 15 years ago oh no, sorry, the first healing course I actually did like I did so much self-study. But the first actual course I did was when my son was born, so nine years ago, and I remember her saying like what are you going to focus on? Like what kind of healing are you going to do? And I was like I just want to work with trauma, like big trauma, and I had no idea why, but I just felt so drawn to it. And then obviously later on down the track, so many layers later into myself, cause I'd already done work on myself but had obviously like blocked out a lot of what I actually really needed to work on.
Speaker 2:And so I was obviously being unconsciously drawn to it. Because it was like I sometimes describe it to people as like I spent so many years trying to figure out how healing works and how trauma works and how we can heal trauma and I was borderline obsessive with it. But it was almost like I was doing that because I was trying to figure it out for myself first, but I didn't know that that's what I was trying to do. So it was like I was. I was like trying to figure out myself, but I didn't even know that like I was trying to do. So it was like I was I was like trying to figure out myself, but I didn't even know that, like I was very disconnected from that being the reality.
Speaker 1:Wow, that is really cool. At what point, during that journey of, like, wanting to learn about trauma and doing the certifications and teaching yourself through I'm assuming reading books and all those different things, did you think, wow, there are some things that I have to heal, like when did that kind of come up for you?
Speaker 2:well, I mean, all along the way there was like there was little traumas I now call them, but, like to some people they're still massive traumas um, but there was. All along the way I was kind of going through these layers of myself and I guess it got to the point where for a long time when I was younger, I didn't know that like this is going to sound so intense, but I didn't know that most people don't want to die and that don't think about dying all the time. I just thought that everybody had this feeling like they didn't want to be here anymore. I just thought it was normal because, I mean, mental health wasn't what it was back then. I'm 35 now, so, like 90s, early 2000s, it just wasn't conversational, so people didn't really know about it. So I didn't know that that wasn't normal. And then I kind of did have this feeling, though, of like I want better, like I want a better life, I want to feel better, and I had this drive. And so I'd gone through all of these different layers of these other traumas and it's like I was kind of peeling back these layers to get to this point where I actually so the way that I actually uncovered what was repressed and just feel like the educational part of me can't hold back.
Speaker 2:Just explaining for a second what that is. Please do, please do. Repressed memory is unconscious, like you're not actually aware that you are repressing. Repressed is is unconscious, like you're not actually aware that you are repressing. Repressed is an unconscious process, whereas suppressed is where you know that it's there and you're like I am not going to look at that. So when you're suppressing something, you're doing that intentionally. Repression happens unconsciously and it's dropped into a part of the brain that you're actually. It's almost like it still activates your fight or flight. It's still able there's fragments of information be like this isn't safe and this isn't safe and this isn't safe, but you don't know why those things aren't safe. Because the actual explicit memory where you can see visually what's happening is locked in a part of your brain that is like uh-uh, no way. So that part of the brain.
Speaker 2:So I would have flashbacks of the actual traumas that had happened to me and I would have this process that my brain had learned because of like. I started having trauma and being abused from three years old, so I was really good at like work, like how to hold it down and how to keep it all together. And I would have these flashbacks and I would blink really hard, which sounds crazy, but I'll blink really hard and I would just say to myself like you're crazy or you're disgusting, or there'd be something that I'd say to myself to make it about me and not about what was happening. If this makes sense and the way that it uncovered is that I'd gone through all of these different layers of healing to the point where I was actually feeling quite good in life. Ironically and I was kind of I was in this phase where I was, I had had a lot of health issues. I'd done some really intense water fasting protocols with this coach to try and heal Lyme disease and I came out at the end of that fasting and obviously you had to have like cleared something physically, energetically, emotionally, all the things.
Speaker 2:And there was this day and I had this meditation and I was like I want to try and increase my intuition. Like you know, I'm a healer. I'm always looking at these little tips and tricks and hacks that I can do. And I laid down on the bed and I put this meditation in. It was like maximize your intuition. And I remember I was really excited for it.
Speaker 2:I laid down and this lady was like I want you to go to these. Imagine that you're walking down this path and there's three doors in front of you and you can see them. And I could see the three doors and she's like you'll intuitively know which door you want to go through. And I was like, okay, I feel like I want to go through the middle door, went through the middle door. She's like there's a path and at the end of the path you can see this guide. And I was like, oh cool, like it's going to be like Buddha or like it's going to be like some, like really cool person, tony Robbins, I don't know, some person. I mean, they're not the same, but I put them up here.
Speaker 1:Buddha and Tony Robbins. That's how pretty Robbins look like.
Speaker 2:A little bit different, but same same, yeah, yeah, a little bit different. But, like you know, pinnacle of education, and just I was expecting to see some enlightened person or someone just really powerful and some leader. And I saw my dad and I was like ew, like I don't want my dad to be there, like why is that? That's shit. I was like I don't want him to be my messenger, why is he there? But I was like you know what you've got to be my messenger, why is he there? But I was like you know what You've got to go with it. Like her prompts all the way were like don't question what you see. The thing is to trust your intuition and to just fully trust what you see. So I'm like okay, cool, so she's like he's going to lead you down the path and all of a sudden he started leading me down this path and everything. I've got goosebumps just remembering it, because I remember the feeling of like everything went dark and this forest and these fields started dying and everything started going black and really scary and I like went like this to take the earphones out of my ears because I was like this, this feels like it's not going somewhere good, but this, something inside of me was like, just keep going, just just stay with it. And it took everything in me not to take my earphones out and just be like oh, that was a weird meditation and I stayed with it. And then it was like he's going to guide you to this building and in this building there's three boxes and in the boxes there's message. And sorry, this is a bit of a long story, but it's like it's leading up in these boxes there's a message and he's showing you this message. And I was like okay, and I opened the box and out came these memories. And again, this is where repressed memory is so crazy. They were the memories that I was having flashes of, that I was blinking down, but when I saw them for the first time, probably in my entire life or for the first time, like consciously, I had this moment of like that's weird, why are those memories in the box? And then I had this like heart-dropping, sinking feeling and for the first time, I looked at the memories and instead of thinking I'm disgusting and there's something wrong with me, I had this moment of like wait a minute, why is my dad doing that? And it was the first time I'd ever actually questioned and seen the memories from a different context. So they were there.
Speaker 2:I was having flashbacks when I was doing the dishes, when I was going to gym, like I was having flashbacks all the time and so dysregulated, so traumatized. But I had a way of splitting, which was also partly a personality disorder. But I had a way of splitting, which was also partly a personality disorder, but I had a way of like flicking and switching and just going you're disgusting for thinking about that instead of it's disgusting that that's happening to you. And I had that shift and I came out of the meditation and was just like oh my gosh. I called my mom straight away and said I have something really disturbing to tell you.
Speaker 2:And then there was a whole process after that, obviously like a massive process, but that was essentially how it happened. And I have people now that come to me and say like I think I have repressed memories and I can see it in somebody else. But I would have never thought that that's what was why I was so drawn to trauma and why that was what was happening. Like that was literally a like slap in the face, shock, and then from there I'd lay in bed each night and more memories that I hadn't pushed down were just boom, boom, boom, boom, like just hitting me.
Speaker 1:It was like an unlocking of everything oh my god, I got goosebumps multiple times when you were telling that story. I almost was like, oh Ash, you've got to talk next, like you've got to actually reply to this Cause I like I know it's a podcast that people can't see, but my mouth was literally open. I was like what? Like that is absolutely incredible, but also quite scary. I would, I would imagine, like quite a scary experience you mentioned in there. I think it would be good for the listeners to be able to hear what your story is, because we're hearing so much about you navigating that and how you kind of came about discovering these repressed memories and things like that in this conversation with your mum. If you're happy to share what is this story, what is this relationship with your dad and a bit of context behind this journey and how this started.
Speaker 2:Yes, definitely. It's like a cliffhanger of, like, what actually happened.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know it's like 14 minutes in and it's like do, do, do I just?
Speaker 2:realized that. Yeah, so for context, my dad was sexually abusive from three years old through until about 12 years old and I developed what was called Stockholm syndrome. So basically, because it was from such a young age, because he's a caregiver, it's like a form of betrayal trauma. It's very confusing for a child when your source of love and source of terror comes from the same place, like your most unsafe person is the person that's supposed to be the safest. It's really confusing and conflicting and because as a child you can't escape the situation and you technically don't want to escape the situation because you love them, because they're your parent, it's a massive mindfuck. But basically what you have to do is you have to find a way to cope. So, yeah, so there was, basically there was ongoing abuse from 32 to 12. A family member of his which I won't say who, but a family member, a relative of his, on his side of the family also like, took my virginity and raped me when I was seven, and then my father also. He stopped the abuse at 12 and then he raped me when I was 20. So, out of the blue, one night having a family, nice family dinner with my brothers and sisters, he asked me if I wanted to stay, if I wanted to stay and watch a movie, and and then because I had kind of blocked everything out, it hadn't happened for a few years and I was already so messed up it was just kind of I felt like I couldn't say no. We had this really like weird relationship and I must mention as well, like my dad is like is is an actual psychopath, like he's been profiled and he's there's. You know, I think a policeman said to me there's, there's bad, there's people who just sometimes do bad things, and then there's people who are bad to the bone, who are psychopaths, and that's your dad. So he's got other criminal background. He was a really scary man. He would threaten to kill me all the time, suffocated me with pillows, like he was very, very scary. He would tell me where he'd bury me in the backyard. So like psychologically it was like okay, I can't tell anybody. Like so I just have to love him, I just have to do what he wants, I just have to love him, I just have to. And this like fawn response was really big. Like this fawn response was like just be who he wants to you to be, just love him excessively and just yeah, so I developed that Stockholm syndrome and then, yeah, that was. That's basically like what was happening. Oh, my neck's gone a bit red, which is interesting, it normally doesn't happen. Oh, my goodness, I feel like, yeah. So it was basically like childhood.
Speaker 2:He was also very cruel, so it was a very like confusing situation where there would be abuse and when he was abusing me he was loving, but then when he wasn't abusing me, he would be like I couldn't breathe without him hating me, like he would be don't do that and don't look like that and don't stand like that and don't look like that and don't stand like that and don't go over there and why are you doing that and what's wrong with you? And like just really critical. All the time he had massive rage issues. He would scream in your face and he hit me so hard that I'm actually like permanently deaf in my left ear. Like he was an awful, awful he still is. He's around an awful, awful man. So that was like what all came out.
Speaker 2:And I guess when I had that, when that all came out, when I was, I was on. I was 30 years old when it happened, so it was five years ago, when it all came up, it was really hard to wrap my head around, because I had spent 30 years convincing myself that he was a good dad and creating this version of him in my mind, kind of with this split personality of like. Over here I know that he's bad dad and I know all the bad things that he did and it's kind of pushed down, but over here it's like, oh, he's great and I love him and he does this and, like you know, I had two or three good memories that I just play on repeat in my mind to almost like obsessive, compulsive, like just kind of think of the good, think of the good, think of the good. So when it came out and I had to actually face it, it was literally like he was dying, like I grieved him, like I missed him, I wanted to run to him. I was like the weirdest feeling of like I feeling like I need him when I was in this chaos, but also feeling like I can't go to him. I was like the weirdest feeling of like I'm feeling like I need him when I was in this chaos, but also feeling like I can't go to him because he's he's bad. And yeah, it was really.
Speaker 2:It was really confusing. There was a lot of grief. There were so many stages that I went through that I wouldn't have anticipated. You would think that you'd see that and be like fuck that guy and cut him out. But it went through all of these different stages of like, of like I'm sorry, like I was felt bad for him that I had cut him out, because I cut him out of my life. So did my brothers and sisters once they found out, and it was like I was like I felt bad for him that I had taken his kids away from him, and I felt guilt and I felt sadness and I went through all of these different emotions and stages that you just wouldn't expect or understand until you're in it, because it was so, I was so conditioned to to love him. So, yeah, it was really. It was a really intense couple of years that is I like.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for sharing that. I am so like, I'm so incredibly grateful. I'm just listening to this and I'm just thinking in my mind like how can one person go through so much horror and horrible experiences it? It kind of baffles my mind because I look at you and you're such a beautiful person and you're literally dedicating your life to helping. I actually gives me cold shivers. I'm I feel emotional listening to you. I genuinely feel quite emotional because it's just like you ask, you're literally dedicating your life to help other people.
Speaker 1:And look what you have experienced. You have experienced things that no person should ever ever have to experience and to heal from that and to navigate that. And I really am so glad that you're sharing your story in the way that you are, because it is so easy from the outside to hear something like that and be like what? Like fuck that guy, like why would you? You would want to, you know you'd want him to almost die. You know what I mean. You think all these horrible thoughts about him, but it's like when you actually get to see that and hear that from your perspective, that it's actually more complex than that.
Speaker 1:It's not as simple as that and especially knowing that you went through these experiences from the age of three and then something so huge and traumatic happening to you at the age of seven. It's like these are formative years, like these are the years that your brain is forming, so you're forming thoughts and beliefs and your brain is being wired in a way that is not the same as another three-year-old or seven-year-old, so that would be so overwhelming. And only five years ago was when you started to really dive into this, if you feel comfortable sharing. You said that you had brothers and sisters and it sounds like you still have a relationship with your mom At the time that this is all happening. Is this just happening to you? Did your brothers and sisters have this experience and where was your mum during this? Did she know that this was happening? Is this something that you've had to heal with your, with your mum, like? I would be really interested to know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's actually funny. You say that because for the last five years there has been like nothing around my mum. I've always just been like my mum's the most beautiful person and I've always just been like it's not your fault, like you didn't do anything, you didn't know. But we actually started writing a children's book and we've written a children's book, which I can talk about later, but um, which is going to be released this year, and it was funny because, like, writing that book actually brought some stuff up and I ended up having a sit down with her and being like I didn't know that this was there. But I do feel like frustrated that you didn't, that you didn't know and that you didn't like how could you not know?
Speaker 2:And I think I also so with um, the the rape when I was seven with the other family member. So I, my sister doesn't um, my sister doesn't have any memories, but she has all the signs that there has been something that's happened, but she's like lock and key. But I had a memory of like so my memory of that incident when I was seven is that she was in the backyard of this family member's house and she was. I was seven, so she would have been five and she was saying to me I'm really scared that this person is going to come into my room tonight and do something which would indicate that something could happen before. Right, and me being the oldest sister and such a protective sibling which I still am with my brother and sister I'm the eldest I was like I will look after you.
Speaker 2:And so actually, that situation came from because I heard this person go to go into her room and I started screaming their name out loud to try and get them away from her, and then they came into my room and then that's when the rape happened. So that was actually that was the catalyst for me being like to my mum. I just I feel like I've had to protect my brothers and sisters, or at least my sister, and it was like a frustration of like why weren't you doing that sort of thing? But we worked through that and we had a beautiful conversation and, yeah, she talked about her side, which I hadn't really heard, and not her side, but like how she struggles with every day and you know, she started now her own page and she shares about that, which is really cool, but, um, yeah, like, what a beautiful fit, like you're losing your, your pain and such a like horrible, horrendous experience to both help other people.
Speaker 1:And I was thinking that, as you, as you were speaking, obviously you have your two boys now I also have two kids as well and I was trying to like put myself in the the perspective of your mum and having to hear these things and and know what you went through. And you guys, obviously you're writing a book together which I can't I do want to hear about, um, and you guys obviously have a relationship together. How that must feel for her to see you and know what you went through. And you guys obviously you're writing a book together which I do want to hear about, and you guys obviously have a relationship together. How that must feel for her to see you and know that that was her baby, her child, who had to go through that. Just the guilt, like I do wonder how someone works through that guilt, because I just am not sure how I would cope knowing that that had happened to my child.
Speaker 2:So I was interested to hear that perspective well, and it's so hard for her too because, like you know, I am so open and I am sharing a lot about it and I've like shared a reel the other day with like baby photos, with like my story over the baby photos, and she's like I could like I can't see those photos like it's so makes me so sad to remember you at that age and like it's heartbreaking for her. But also she does understand now we've got the book as well, like she understands the mission and the importance and like it's a big thing for her to heal through and to forgive herself for. And I try to help her where I can with that. So I will be like mom. I just posted a really triggering reel just reminding you I love you. You didn't you know, you didn't know about a lot, just like trying to help remind her. Um, but yeah, so she didn't know she was.
Speaker 2:Also she was in a really abusive relationship with him, so cheating, like he had a porn addiction, he was domestic violence, like really manipulative, really controlling. Like I'm actually like proud of her that she left him. Um, but she did. She left him when we were I was about around that seven years old age and so she, from the outside, he made it look like he was super dad. And so she had this idea of like well, like they're better off, like they're better, like he's way better dad now than he ever was when we were together. Like he's, he's not drinking, he's showing up, he's picking, he's, you know, taking them places, and like he made it look like he was doing a really good job. So she kind of thought like oh, you know, as much as he's a bad husband, he's a good dad. And that was like her narrative, and so it was a huge shock for her. It took her a while to like come to terms.
Speaker 2:And then, coming back to my brother and sister, my brother, I think he's like comfortable now because mum shared something the other day, um, but like he came forward one year after I told them which even telling them was so scary because I wasn't sure that they were going to believe me. I love them so much so I was like I'm so scared that they're gonna, I'm gonna lose them. But they both, straight away, I said to them I've been sexually abused as a child and my sister was like it's dad, wasn't it? And so she like you know, there's many other men in our life. We have a stepdad, things like that. She just knew straight away and yeah, so my brother came forward about a year after saying that things had happened to him and he's like working through that.
Speaker 2:And then, actually not long after I did the first podcast ever talking about it, I had a cousin reach out to me and from my father's side of the family so he's got like 10 or 11 siblings, so there's like a big family on that side. A lot of trauma, um, and my cousin had reached out to me and said I listened to your podcast and I just wanted you to know that your father also, when my parents were away, our grandfather was looking after her and my father had gone over there and was having drinks and had gone into her bedroom and raped her when she was nine and so she was like thank you for sharing. And you know, now I can talk, like I can speak up and tell you and and like it kind of was the catalyst for her to be like this happened to me too and your dad is actually evil and it was quite like it was awful, like the details that she gave and everything it was. It was awful and it made me so angry because it's like you can deal with it when it's you, but when it's someone else, you're like so it was just another person. It was just that more confirmation of his level of evilness.
Speaker 2:And then also the other family member that um had raped me when I was seven, also raped her when she was 12. So it was just like, yeah, she's like. She's still healing, unfortunately like struggles, a lot like physically and mentally, but um, yeah, so it like it sent. It was a. It was an explosion, like there was. It was slowly an explosion. It was a. It was an explosion, like there was. It was slowly an explosion. It was a good year before anyone said anything, um, and in that year I was like getting death threats from his side of the family and getting all of these messages to me saying that I'm a liar and I'm a witch. And then I'm like just all this crazy stuff, basically him feeding stories about me to people, saying that I was telling my story for profit.
Speaker 2:He had every story under the sun and I was getting attacked all the time with these different stories and then, yeah, it was kind of like nice for me even though I haven't spoken publicly until recently it was kind of nice for me to know that there was these other people as well and that, even if no one knew that, I knew that and that yeah you are so incredibly brave and I think, like this is the.
Speaker 1:This is the reason why so many women who experience any sort of you know sexual assault or violence against them don't speak up because of what can happen. You know the abuse and the death threats and all the things that you had to deal with and still being so brave enough to speak up, I think, is really important. I feel I do feel quite passionate about violence against women and all those different things, and I just, I just think there is so much courage in sharing your story and speaking up and the impact and the flow and effect that that can have on other people, even if it's not you know. You've had a direct impact on, obviously, people in your family, but other people, strangers, people that don't even know you, that might not even be telling you how much you're helping them.
Speaker 1:Something that I was thinking when you were speaking, again from the perspective of, like, having my own kids and I'm sure that a lot of people that do listen to my podcast do have kids and stuff themselves and you were saying that your dad came across as, like you know, dad of the year.
Speaker 1:Your mom felt trusting enough for you to spend time with him and obviously not knowing that any of that was happening.
Speaker 1:I know that you have your own kids. Now I'm very curious to know with you, know how that's impacted your trust with other people, with your kids, and if we're listening to this because as parents, I'm like shit, like people can just be, unfortunately and it's not not like everyone, but people can be so manipulative and it's it's like, yeah, I would really love to know from your perspective how you handle that with your own kids and maybe even just like if you did have advice or words that you would speak on with people who have kids of how you can handle these kind of like trust issues with your children. And after hearing stories like this, you just want to kind of like I want to like. My kids are never leaving the house, they're never spending time with anybody Fuck. Kind of like. I want to like my kids are never leaving their house, they're never spending time with anybody fuck my whole family like you kind of want to go down that route.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I would. I would love to hear from you on that. I'm always like a big advocate of like really checking myself and making sure that my trauma isn't affecting my kids and so like things with like things with sleepovers and things like that. I know there's a lot of people that are like have had sexual trauma, that are like my kids don't do sleepovers, they'll never do sleepovers, and it's just like a rule that they have, whereas I think like I don't want to do anything that impacts them from having like a happy, healthy childhood and there are so many good memories that can be made from those sorts of things. So I'm always checking is this my trauma or is this like a real intuitive hit, and trying to figure out the difference between that. But I definitely do feel like the trust comes up and it is. It is a really big, intense thing that happens. But what I always remind myself is that I can like what can I control? What can I control without it affecting their life? In that, what can I, what can I do to make sure that if something happens, they know that they can tell me, or because you're never going to be able to stop something from happening, like initially, unless, like you said, you just don't ever let them go anywhere or be around anybody else. You can never stop like that first time, but you can definitely stop it from there. And so it's one, using your intuition, around who feels safe and who feels unsafe, and trusting that. And if you have a weird feeling trusting and going, you know what? No, but if you have a weird feeling with every single person, then that's something to look into. But I think that's the trust issues in yourself, but I think um being able to like.
Speaker 2:So this is why the book was created right, because I was thinking about, well, what's the conversations that I wish mum had have had with me, so that I knew that, even though my situation is quite extreme and I would probably have still I don't know that I would have still spoken up because there were so many death threats and so many variables. But this is where the book is so perfect and this is why we've written it, because we address every single one of those things so that a child can be like oh so, even if they're being manipulated and groomed or whatever, they're going to have those moments and we've worded it in a way that they go oh, that's actually not right. And so in a gentle way because the book is aimed at five plus so in a gentle way, using like Australian animals and using like the correct language, but actually getting all of those messages across. So I think that my advice is like if you've got kids, it's making sure that you're constantly repeating like this no one is supposed to touch you here, here, and here no one is. You're not supposed to touch anyone else there. You're not supposed to keep secrets. You're definitely not supposed to keep secrets and make you feel alone or make you feel scared and just kind of like reminding them, not in like a scary drilling it into the way, because then they're just gonna like you know, but if you're just constantly reminding them like hey, remember, like we don't do that, whatever. That's why the book was created, so that you can just repeat that message, because I've had clients who didn't have that message in that communication, didn't know how to say it, didn't have a safe person, whatever it is, and so the abuse was ongoing and the results of ongoing abuse is so much worse than an isolated event.
Speaker 2:So one isolated event is is almost easy to heal when it comes to this kind of work. But ongoing, ongoing trauma, like as you mentioned earlier, it changes the brain, it can create personality disorders, it puts them into fight or flight, dysregulates the nervous system, like it completely breaks them down and ruins them when it's happening over a long, like a long-term period. So I've had clients who've had one event and, because their parents had been having conversations about body boundaries and secrets and what's right and wrong repetitively throughout their childhood, when it happened, boom, they went home. I know one client specifically it happened at a friend's house, went home, told her mum straight away, went to, went to the police, went to court. He went to jail.
Speaker 2:And the other thing as well is like, if it's historic, it's almost I don't want to say impossible, because it's getting easier, but it's almost impossible to get them to go to jail because you have to have dates and times of things that happened and you don't have that when it's 30 years later. So being able to like, yeah, being it's it's shit, but being able to, um, to educate your kids so that they know as soon as something feels wrong they can tell you, and even just making sure that it's not just you, because sometimes that can even be harder for kids. So, making sure that they know who their safe people are and having multiple people so that they know you don't necessarily have to tell me, you could tell this person or this person so that they know that they't necessarily have to tell me, you could tell this person or this person so that they know that they've got a few different safe people that they could speak up to. And having that and knowing that that's that is really all you can do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, repetitive that repetitive messaging and then let it go, because if you don't let it go, you'll drive yourself insane like advice, that advice from you and what you have experienced and you have like every right to have all of the trust issues and be completely overprotective and that's your advice. I think that is so, so reassuring to parents and I know for myself myself, when you said sleepovers, like my son went for his first like group sleepover. He's 11. Oh, my god, I always forget to say the right age and I feel like such a terrible parent. He's 11, um, and I remember saying to him in the car and I was just, like you know, kind of having that conversation with him about no one being able to to touch him and where, and all those different things and he was listening and he was absorbing the conversation because I was feeling quite nervous about dropping him off and I feel so bad about it. When I drop him off, I'm like focusing on the parents, like staring at the dad am I getting a bad feeling from you? And I feel so bad because I'm like you're probably just a really lovely man and now I'm like really sussing you out, but we have to.
Speaker 1:And I picked him up the next morning. I'm like, hey, buddy, did you have like, did you have a fun sleepover? And the first thing that he said, which was so funny, and I'm like, oh my God, I'm like, okay, I love that. Thank you so much for telling me, but please wait until we get in the car. I was like if he had said that a minute earlier and went next to the parents, I would have literally melted into a puddle and died. But I was like that's good, like I'm like it is good, and, before we do, I do want it, cause I'm like I'm worried we're going to forget about it. And you've mentioned the book a couple of times and I think it's brilliant because I've seen you talking about it on your social media. Can you tell us a little bit, like tell us about the book, tell us what it's called and like can we get our hands on it? When can we get our hands on it? Let us know. Yes, it's called Secret or Surprise.
Speaker 2:So we had to find a way that it was like age appropriate, that was also like palatable, that parents would actually read to their kids, because there's such a thing of like introducing it too early and fears around that. So it's called Secret or Surprise and basically like the idea behind it is that it's all Australian animals um, my sister's an amazing artist. So we literally have like the perfect formula of like my mum was um a school teacher background, like I've got the actual lived experience of my sister's artist. So we were like we've got this perfect trifecta. So it's basically explaining the difference between a secret and a surprise, and obviously a surprise is still a secret, but the way that it has been framed in the book is that a surprise is a happy secret that feels good, that you only have to ever hold on to for a really short period of time. So the opposite of that is like a secret secret and they feel heavy and they make you feel alone and scared and sick in the tummy and kind of explaining that. We also do touch on which is a really important point which is a little bit controversial, which is that like 90% even higher, I don't know the exact number is family members. It's not actually happening at sleepovers, it's rarely happening at sleepovers. It's happening with family members, whether that be immediate family members or whether that be step-parents, uncles, aunties, whatever. It is actually family members that are abusive. So we worry about out there, but it's actually in here. That is where it's happening, and there was actually a statistic online on, like, the Australian Institute of Statistics, on like the criminology section of the website, like an Australian government website, and it said that the reason that this isn't like more advertised or the reason this isn't more talked about, is because people would lose faith in the family structure. So it's like and that's where the biggest problem is going to be with selling the book is that people are going to be scared to read it to the children in case there is like some turning against of the family, when in reality, the book is not presented in that way at all.
Speaker 2:But it basically goes through and talks about like sometimes the person who is hurting you is somebody in your family, which can be really confusing because you love them, but the secret should still never be kept, and so it's kind of like just going through being like this, like this might happen, but also you should still tell someone. And then there's a big focus on like being brave, because a lot of the time it does, it is really brave to tell. And so being like you are brave and you're brave enough to tell and you know people are going to protect you, and there's like a lot of visuals of being like a protective bubble and having safe people and things like that. So there's really beautiful visuals. And then there's also that messaging throughout of like people shouldn't like we literally do say like no one should touch your private parts or make you touch theirs.
Speaker 2:And there's little in the back of the book. There's a qr code that's going to go to a landing page. That's like here's how to explain what the private parts are anatomically or correctly, and here's what to do if your child says something's happened and here's how to figure out. You know what the next steps are. And here's what the signs are of sexual abuse. And a landing page for parents to actually understand it before they read the book and like during sort of reading the book um, yeah, so it's. That's basically like the concept of of the book is to is to have that conversation, because parents don't know how to have that conversation. So it's having it through a picture book that is age appropriate and that's probably the only thing that's going to be a little bit controversial is that, like people will say, it's potentially not age appropriate for a five-year-old.
Speaker 2:But the reason that the book actually came about was because we read this news article about a 12-year-old girl who there was a book over in America that had been banned and it was about like sexual health and it was aimed at sort of like she was 12 years old and it was aimed at sort of that age but it had been banned in America because it was, like, said to be inappropriate and it actually wasn't inappropriate, it was just talking about about sexual abuse and about those sorts of things.
Speaker 2:So she got this book in like a dusty section of the library that wasn't supposed to be there and she went home and she said mum, dad does this to me and she was 12 and it had been happening. And I said to my mum said there needs to be a book like that in Australia and I said, yeah, but it can't be aimed at 12 year olds. That's too late, it needs to be younger because they need to understand it from a young age so that they can stop it happening, like it needs to cover that gap and I was like the only problem with that is introducing that concept. At what age can you do that? And things like that. So we, we, we kind of had to work out how to, how to build correct language and the correct age and graphics and everything to make sure that we can do it from a younger age so that we stop it early on.
Speaker 1:Holy shit, oh my God, I'm going to like this whole podcast is just me getting cold shivers. It's just me being like when you said the 12 year old, like in the book, I literally got the biggest cold shiver through my whole entire body because I just think that is so wild and I am just like I think it's so incredible what you're doing and it's like, as parents, we do want to avoid these conversations because they feel uncomfortable, but it's like if no one's having these conversations with our children, then how do they know? They're not, they don't know these things. They're not. No one is teaching them. If you're not teaching them and I love that you're doing it in a way that is really really age appropriate, appropriate. I. What would you say to a parent who's like no, I just don't. Like I don't want to put that heaviness on my child, like I don't want my child to even know that things like this exist in the world. I kind of want to protect their innocence. What would you say?
Speaker 2:I'm so glad you asked that because I, like, had another point, and I was, and it's off and it's exactly that, which is that if your child isn't being abused, their book is just going to go straight over their head and have no impact on them. If they don't have any understanding of sexual abuse, you're going to read the book and it's going to be like no one should touch your private parts, even family, blah, blah, blah, and they're just going to be like cool, I'm going to go play. It's not going to affect them and it's written in a way that it doesn't affect them. Because there are other books out there, one in particular, that has really like creepy, scary kind of graphics and anyone who reads it is like you get icky just looking at it and we're like we don't want to create that feeling because you want to be able to tell the difference. So for a child, that, so we've been really mindful of that. So for a child pardon me, for a child who hasn't experienced sexual abuse, they don't have a blueprint of it, it's not going to be triggering for them and it's just going to go straight over their head. They're just going to be like cool, like I liked the echidna. Like there's no. Like literally do you know what I mean? Like there's not going to be a connection to it. A child who's being abused will have this response of like oh, okay, oh, and they'll be thinking about it, they'll be registering, it'll be triggering them and it will be bringing something up in them, which is perfect. That's exactly what you should want as a parent.
Speaker 2:Now, obviously, there's people, a lot of people, that are like I don't want my child to be exposed to that. I don't want my child to know about that. I don't want them to know about that early on. I can almost guarantee you that a huge percentage of those parents have had sexual trauma themselves that they haven't addressed, because people who know how scary that is don't want their children to think, to realize how scary that is. But the reality is their children won't feel how scary it is because it wouldn't have happened to them. So they don't have the blueprint.
Speaker 2:So, like we have to remember that and I have to do this all the time. I have to be like am I worried about? Am my children actually gonna be traumatized by this, or was I just traumatized by this because I was a traumatized child and they're actually so fine. So it's realizing that you only. It's the same thing with like. People always say like how do I know if like a memory is real, or how do I know if like a nightmare means something? It's like you often don't have a blueprint of a feeling unless you've had the feeling, and you can't know what it feels like to be sexually abused unless you have been. So by reading the book to the child, you're not going to give them that feeling. They're not going to know what you're talking about because they don't feel it. You can't implant the feeling. Yeah, you can implant words and thoughts, but you can't implant a feeling. Yeah, so if you're reading it to them and they haven't been abused, it's just going to go over their head agreed.
Speaker 1:I was like I need to, I need to give her a moment, like I needed, I need to ask this question, because I know that you're going to have the perfect answer. And I was just like I'm ready for this, like I'm gonna ask this question. She's gonna have this fucking amazing answer. And that was an amazing answer. And I think, like if you're a parent listening, to wait first, when is the book coming out, because I was about to say, if you're listening to this, you need to get this book. When, when is this all happening? The goal is May.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, the goal is May and we've already had like some. It's so funny once you do something in alignment, it's just like just from sharing a couple of reels. I've had people in the UK that are like in advocacy, that are like we're going to share it across the UK, and I've had people like connections in like media and like just random things like come through. So we're going to self-publish to start off with, with the goal of like if someone, if it takes off and someone wants to take it on, we can make that decision, then then, but we're going to self-publish. It'll be online.
Speaker 2:For people in Victoria we're probably going to do like a big launch party for mums and sell like physical books and just like. Connect with everyone, tell the story, tell the why, have like a bit of an event. But again, yeah, it'll be online. So I'll have a like. I'll talk about it obviously more through my social media. It's got its own little Instagram and we'll. The company name is Three Brave Hearts, which is obviously me, my mum and my sister, and so that's like our yeah, our like partnership company name and then the book comes under that. So our social media is going to be focused on the why, like everything I've just said to you, like what to do, why it's not, like, why it's appropriate to read it and the statistics, and just really focusing on that messaging, and then the book will be sort of for sale through that platform this is so incredible.
Speaker 1:I'm like get this girl on sunrise. Like like we need this book, we. I like, truly think, like I think this book is going to be absolutely huge. I think it's so necessary and there's such a gap in the market for it. And I'm like I'm so glad that she came on my podcast at this point because I feel like, once this book comes out, like you are going to be doing so many talks and so many different things and it's just going to blow up. I truly do think that and I'm so grateful to be like having this conversation with you and hearing about the book before it's even come out Like I'm like this is special Before it's even out. You guys, you heard it here. This is really exciting.
Speaker 1:I am so I don't want to wrap this podcast up because I'm like you are such an interesting person and this conversation is so interesting to me. I can't wrap up this podcast without really knowing and I know it might be like a longer question, so please feel free to take your time with it but obviously you have been through a lot in the very formative years of your life and more than most people have ever had to be gone through or deal with and a lot of trauma, and really you said you know the last five years of when you kind of opened this box and been like, well, fuck, like there's a lot here. What has that journey looked like? What have you done to heal? Would you say you are healed? Does it still come up for you? Is there still things that you find challenging? Like I feel like I just need to know all those little bits and pieces before I let you go into that. However, you will take your time, but I just need to know those things.
Speaker 2:Yes, I think, because I had been so obsessed with healing and I'd already done 10 years of like, I feel like I'd already cracked the code, like from a logical perspective, like I had gone through nervous system healing and somatics and breath work and energy healing and subconscious healing and spiritual healing and all the things, I kind of had a really deep understanding of how healing works. That's not to say that it wasn't hard. I think for the first year I did honestly have a complete mental breakdown. So after I remembered it all, I told everyone and I cut my dad out. I was like 100% convinced for at least four months that he was going to come and kill me, because he told me that he would for all those formative years. So I ended up having a complete nervous breakdown where I would be in the shower and I would hear like I'd hear like in my ears, the front door and I could hear him screaming my name like, and I would get out and I jumped in my towel and ran into the backyard because I literally thought he was there. So I started having like they're called, auditory hallucinations. I thought I was going schizophrenic, but it was just like such an intense stress response to the situation and it happened in the supermarket where I started running and like I just I thought he was gonna kill me. I thought he was coming for me and again luckily my mom is quite a grounding person she was like you're not schizophrenic, like it's an intense amount of stress, and he told you this and, like you know, we just you just need to sort of keep going.
Speaker 2:There was a lot of times in that first year that I like lost hope, suicidal, just couldn't do it and felt like I just couldn't keep going. Had a lot of like notes in my phone, a lot of journaling. That was just so dark. But I've always had and this is so funny because my sister said it to me on my story, like I posted my stories the other day I've always had this little voice that, even when it gets really dark, it's just like it clicks in and it's just like you're meant for something big, like you've got to keep going. And it's funny because she was like quantum physics, quantum worlds, quantum realities's, like time isn't linear. And I think that this version of you right now like that was you saying that to you back then, and like all throughout childhood, and like the message got through from where you are now to those versions. So I feel like that like really was.
Speaker 2:That was an amazing moment, but it was not easy, like in that first year or two, like it was. It was definitely mental breakdown, it was, it was grief, it was just constant panic. It was. It was awful, but I did have all those tools, like I did have healers that I knew I could go to. I did have techniques to work on myself. It definitely like I did a lot of the work on my own. I have another. I have a lady that does internal family systems, who's just like this lady, that's just like sunshine. I love her so much. I'd go to her when I'd get really stuck.
Speaker 2:And, yeah, it feels like leaving my marriage was like one of the probably like catalysts for really closing it off because, uh, my ex-husband just really like so many things that he did just really reminded me of my dad and it it was just too triggering to be with him and I noticed like a lot of healing happened after I left, uh. But yeah, those first two years was quite intense and off the like after that like I feel like so last year, um, towards the middle of last year, actually like the memory, there was some memories that I knew were there but I hadn't worked on like I had deliberately avoided them. And that was the one with, uh, the relative, the rape when I was seven and the rape with my dad, because they were just more the abuse, long-term abuse, was like kind of just ongoing and it became sort of normal. But those were so violent and brutal that they just felt too big and I actually processed both of them myself. So I laid down and used the techniques that I teach and that I use on my clients and I did them on myself and that healed it and that worked and it was, yeah, like two days later they were gone. So it has been like little things pop up, but I do really feel like the last memory that came through last year it felt final.
Speaker 2:I always had this feeling of like there's more to come or there's more to do, and after that one I was like I feel good, like life is really good and life is really good now, like my I. Just I went out of my marriage and into like self, like I was, like I'm going to have fun, I'm going to put myself first, look after myself, I pulled back my clients. I was just like going for walks and swims. I lived on the um on the cliff, like opposite the beach with amazing views, and like I just nourished myself and yeah so I. And then I wrote a list of everything I wanted in a partner and I was like I am not getting into a relationship until somebody ticks every single box and I had a bit of fun dating but like there wasn't anyone good. And then obviously I met Gav and yeah, so now the only thing that probably still pops up is trust.
Speaker 2:So in a relationship, because of things that happened in my marriage and in past relationships but also my dad like my foundation of trust was there was none, like it's really a really difficult thing to do so, uh, trust is probably like one thing that will like not even just trust as in is in cheating and things like that, but trust as in they are who they say they are and that I can trust my own judgment, that I've picked right and things like that. So there's like that self-trust and, to be honest, it's probably only once every few months that it gets a bit shaky and I could get triggered by something or I could start to like piece things together that aren't together. But if you're with the right partner, I think that that is not an issue, because he will be like okay, like let's talk, and I'm like I don't want to talk to you because I just go, I go into like shut down mode and I'm like no, like you just don't understand, and I'll just put up all the walls and then he'll just be like he's patient and he's very kind and he's very like. Of course you feel like that, like you've been through so much and I want to talk to you and I want to help you and let's talk about it, and he wants to like work through those layers and he's very like. Of course that would be triggering and is there anything I can do?
Speaker 2:Going forward and like he's just like the best communicator I know he's honestly like he is the best communicator and he's so gentle and kind and loving and so he has like he's healing all those parts as we go. So like it's few and far between when something happens inside me but and it's often triggered not by him, it's often triggered by my ex-husband or something externally happening and then I'm projecting that all of that onto him and I can kind of realize that after. So I can sometimes get triggered and put the walls up, but in regards to everything else, like I don't get flashbacks. I've actually driven past my dad a few times and I'm like, oh, there he is, you see him, I've seen him. So he lives like 45 minutes away, but there's been times where we've driven past each other and I've seen him on the road.
Speaker 2:I obviously share oh, my god, that is that's yeah, but I like, I like if the first few times it was really like it panicked me and triggered me now and I think, is he gonna come? Did he see me? Does he know where I live? And now I just that doesn't happen at all, like I'm not afraid of him coming for me. I'm not like I saw him. There's no activation, nothing happens. I like my business is.
Speaker 2:Everything has like really fallen into place, like my relationship with my kids is great, my relationship's great, my house like my friendships I've got beautiful friendships my family, everything like and I don't experience probably like stress is one thing, but that's just because I am so like hell-bent on living a big life, so I just take on all the things. But, like, in regards to the trauma, like there is no. I sometimes feel like it's hard to talk about it. I've had to like really read back through things because it doesn't even feel like that happened to me anymore. It just literally feels like I'm this completely different version of myself in that the way that I speak, the way that I show up, like even in social situations I used to be so like I literally used to sit like this, like this would be my normal, like if you can't see me, I'm like slouching over, like I just I like everything is different, like that feels like there's no trauma in my body, in my mind, no flashbacks, nothing, like it's just yeah it's pretty cool, wow, that is so cool.
Speaker 1:And like you're literally a living, breathing embodiment of what what people can achieve when they choose to face something that's really uncomfortable and choose to heal it rather than let it kind of leak into every other area of their life.
Speaker 1:And I think it's really important that you did say you know, there was this year or two that was really hard, like it was painful and uncomfortable, because I think sometimes and not that people have to experience, you know to the degree of which you experience, but whatever other people's experiences are, sometimes we think, you know, when you hear the word healing, you think it's going to be like so beautiful and so light and like I'm just gonna like be so much better and it's like no, there are gonna be times that are painful, but it's like in those times it doesn't mean that it's not helping you and it's wrong and you should steer away from it. It's just like this is part of that process. And then to hear how you feel about yourself now, how you hold yourself, your life and your relationships, it's like you had to go through the depths of the pain of healing to actually get yourself here and I think that that is truly incredible and I do hope, like I know you said, it was like it's sometimes hard to talk about it. I do hope that it, you know, it wasn't like too hard to talk about it today. I felt bad when you said that. I was like, oh no, I'm like I hope this wasn't bad.
Speaker 2:No, no, I feel I've like, generally, I used to get like the shakes. I used to get like the shakes. I used to fully shake when I spoke about it. I still spoke about it, but I used to fully shake and I feel like my redneck was um redneck, my rash thing. I put like all these essential oils on before I came in and I feel like they were like I'm not loving this, but I smell amazing.
Speaker 2:That's so there were ones that I don't normally use, so I was like, oh, maybe I'm actually having a reaction to that.
Speaker 1:I'm having an allergic reaction on the podcast, I know.
Speaker 2:No, but I used to like get the shakes and I would like, after I'd speak, I'd dissociate, or I'd dissociate during and I'd just be like blah, blah, blah and I'd say all this stuff and I wouldn't even remember what I said on the podcast Cause I'd have to disconnect from it to be able to say it because of that fear of like him coming after me, of what was going to happen, the repercussions, whereas now it's been five years, I'm still here and I've actually got to the point, like I've done so much work around just around my purpose and around even around death and things like that, which is super intense, but like to the point where I'm like I'm living so in alignment that if that actually did happen which it's not going to I would be like I was living exactly the way that I needed to live and like I can't control that, and so a full surrender of, like anything that's going to happen, if that makes sense. So, yeah, and like you said, it wasn't easy and I think that's why I call it the healing work.
Speaker 1:I feel like there needs to be another name for it, but it's yeah, I feel like journey is not the right word, you know like have people like healing journey. I feel like a journey sounds really fun, like I'm going on a journey. It sounds like a holiday, it sounds fun, but it's like but it's. It shouldn't be a deterrent either, that it is work, because I think, like, the really crucial thing to understand is, whether you look at it or not, it's going to play out in your life Like it's. It's there, it's still there. It's just choosing not to look at it and, whilst it might feel like work, it's like hearing you talk about that freedom and that, I guess, just true connection to yourself and not being controlled by those thoughts and the flashbacks and all those things like that is worth that, that work that you had to do on yourself, and I think that that's a really cool share. I could talk to you for so long Holy heck, that was so. That was really really good and again, I'm really grateful for everything that you shared.
Speaker 1:I usually do like a three fun questions. I'm still going to do it. Let's do three fun questions. They're rapid fire. I don't care how long we're going. This is like absolutely incredible conversation.
Speaker 2:Three questions Very fun, Very easy, Very light. First thing that comes to your mind. First question your death row meal Nachos. That was so quick. I'm always like when people answer so quick, I'm like Mexican.
Speaker 1:Mexican nachos Like yeah, okay, that's a vibe I do. I do love nachos. Okay, that was good. Fucking hell quick, that was quick. I really like I should do a competition and like go back and look at all the podcasts that I ask people these questions and who answered the quickest you get a prize. Nachos easy, too quick. Okay, celebrity crush, boy and girl.
Speaker 2:Oh well, austin Butler was like one for a while, but not like, not from elvis days, from like back in. I don't know if anyone watched like the the sea, the prequel to sex in the city, like carrie diaries. In that I was like oh I love you.
Speaker 1:Okay, no one's ever said that.
Speaker 2:No one's ever said that. I saw him in interviews and realized that he's like an actual, like arrogant arsehole.
Speaker 1:Is he actually Like? He's just a rude person.
Speaker 2:Yeah, rude, arrogant arsehole, but like physically. If I didn't know that I'd still be like physically beautiful physically beautiful.
Speaker 1:Just don't watch any of his interviews. That's so funny. Okay, girl interviews, that's so funny.
Speaker 2:Okay, girl, yeah, yep and girl. Celebrity crush girl. Um, that's a really hard one. Who's?
Speaker 1:Margot Robbie, probably do you know what? That's probably my most said answer yeah.
Speaker 2:As soon as I thought about like every actress, I was like obviously yeah she's she's probably the most said one.
Speaker 1:I'm like I get it.
Speaker 2:She's like she's actually got good vibes too, like when she's interviewed. She's like wholesome and down to earth and she's Australian and I don't know. I just was like she's like yeah amazing, agreed I?
Speaker 1:I agree with that one. I always ask people this and I'm like I actually don't even know my own, which is so funny. I, she's on her own. I can't even think of one. I think my boy crush at the moment is Benson Boone. He's the guy that sings like oh, I don't want to sing on my own podcast because I have a terrible voice, but have you ever? It's like you know, it's like please stay.
Speaker 2:Oh God yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm going to look at what he looks like after this looks like and I think it's a combination of like what he looks like he's giving Harry Styles vibes and what he's wearing, how he sings and he does his backflip and, like you know, he's just he's just doing things. He's doing things to me. He's doing things. I'm not sure what they are, but but they're things. And the last question is if you could live anywhere in the world, where would you live?
Speaker 2:Oh, somewhere tropical. I just love tropical palm trees, Like oh, anywhere tropical. Like, seriously, if it was Queensland I'd be so happy, but also if it was Bali or Thailand or Philippines or somewhere like that just oh, do you live in Melbourne, right?
Speaker 1:that's like the least tropical. I know it's like the least tropical place ever.
Speaker 2:I know it's the least tropical place and I try and find it where I can. I've got a palm tree in my backyard and a pool so it just in hot, hot days it feels like I'm in tropical, but most of the year it just feels like my house is really out of place it's so funny.
Speaker 1:I could just imagine you winter like turning all the heaters on and staring at your tree. Like I am, one with tropical places.
Speaker 2:I just fly to somewhere tropical. I've like now I've got my podcast, I'm like okay, so I just will go to the Gold Coast and record all through winter and then like actually, summer here has been really good.
Speaker 1:It's been 30 to 33 every day here and it is for the next few weeks, so it's like yeah, okay, before we wrap up, where are all the places that they can find you, that people who are listening can find you? All of them the book, the podcast, instagram. Tell us all of them. Yes.
Speaker 2:So the Instagram is actually I need to look at this my Instagram is IamJessicaAla and the podcast my podcast is rebranding at the moment, so that'll be a sneaky surprise. The Instagram for the book is three brave hearts, like spelt t-h-r-e-e. Three brave hearts, um, and that's where the book will be released and that's where we'll start doing all of our, all of our socials and all of our messaging and everything. And then my website is actually the same as my website is just jessicaalacomau. So yeah, it's pretty simple. It's all just me, like the certification, everything just comes off as an extension of me and it's all yeah, easy to find perfect.
Speaker 1:Everyone should go follow you for sure. Thank you so much for your time today. Thank you so much for sharing your story. I really do, I really like, really do appreciate it. It was absolutely incredible to talk to you. Thank, thank you.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me.