Elite Business Connector Podcast

Interview with Matt Havens - 010

• Bryan Paul Buckley

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Interview with Matt Havens

Matt Havens is an international keynote speaker, reformed corporate leader, son of a comedian, and a firm believer we overcomplicate work by overthinking the solutions.  While Matt doesn’t take himself too seriously, he seriously delivers a high-energy, actionable, and hilarious message every time he takes a stage.

Matt lives in Dallas, TX with his wife and best friend, Megan, and their twin daughters Avery and Emersyn.  When he’s not working, he’s probably trying to convince his daughters to love golf or plan the next family adventure.

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SPEAKER_01

Welcome to the Elite Business Connector Podcast. I'm your host, Brian Paul Buckley, husband of one, father of five, and on a mission to help you develop and master your business social skills. Today is an interview with a subject matter expert. So let's get to know our guest. Matt Havens is an international keynote speaker, reformed corporate leader, son of a comedian, and a firm believer we overcomplicate work by overthinking the solutions. While Matt doesn't take himself too seriously, he seriously delivers a high-energy, actionable, and hilarious message every time he takes a stage. Matt lives in Dallas, Texas with his wife and best friend Megan and their twin daughters, Avery and Emerson. When he's not working, he's probably trying to convince his daughters to love golf or plan the next family adventure. It's go time. Well, I am live with Matt Havens right now. Matt, where's home for you?

SPEAKER_02

Home is Dallas, Texas. Been here for about 11 years. Uh but the thing the thing about living in Texas is if you're not born here, they still don't like allow you to call yourself a Texan yet. I think that happens at year 20. So I've still got nine more to go.

SPEAKER_01

There you go. There you go. Well, at least you get um a goal to to uh try to achieve, right?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So are you a Texas sports fan or are you somewhere else?

SPEAKER_02

And now I I grew up in the Midwest. I grew up uh a couple hours south of Chicago and Illinois. So, you know, my allegiance growing up in the 80s and 90s was Michael Jordan, the the Bulls, uh, and uh and Chicago sports. So unfortunately, I'm a Bears fan, I'm a Cubs fan. You know, I just decided to go with the teams that never really win a whole lot.

SPEAKER_01

Well, we have misery that loves company. We've we've got that in common, and I can always push back on saying that we've at least we've seen every one of our teams win a world uh world championship within our lifetime.

SPEAKER_02

That is true. And most I need to take a more positive mindset to it just like you did. There you go.

SPEAKER_01

Well, it's my it's my defensiveness that I try to just turn positive over here. So, Matt, you're a professional speaker. How long have you been a professional speaker?

SPEAKER_02

I've been a professional speaker uh full-time for about six years. Uh, my first time ever really getting on stage doing it was uh eight or nine years ago now. And um, so it was kind of something I knew I always wanted to do. Uh, it's a little bit of a family business. Uh and um so but I had a corporate career before that. And so I kind of started dabbling in it on the side while I still had that corporate role, and then ultimately just made the decision back in uh about 2018, 2019 to to really give it, give it my hundred percent all.

SPEAKER_01

Which is awesome, which is awesome. And you've got something in your bio that um that I didn't share in the bio, but that I want to read right now that I thought was absolutely awesome. Did you grew up being snuck in the back of a back room of comedy clubs while your dad performed at some of the biggest names in comedy? Tell yeah, you gotta unpack that, Matt.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. So um back probably, I guess I would have been in elementary school. My dad used to work for State Farm Insurance. Uh we grew up in Bloomington, Illinois. That's the headquarters for State Farm. If you're from Bloomington, probably 90% of the people you know work for State Farm. And my dad would be driving me to school and would be passing the State Farm corporate headquarters that he would have to then go to five minutes after he dropped me off from school to school. And he would sometimes make jokes about, oh man, I gotta go in there next. And I always found it was funny because like you're gonna drop me off and you're gonna go spend nine hours in that building, um, being a corporate lawyer of all things. And so, you know, fast forward a few years after that, he started uh getting into the comedy scene. So he would literally work till five o'clock at night, drive up to Chicago, do open mics in some of Chicago's comedy clubs, and then he ultimately made uh the choice to go do comedy full time. So if you fast forward now to when I'm in maybe high school or so, um, I would occasionally be in the the back room of the comedy clubs that he was telling jokes at. Or I remember one time being uh off in college at uh Miami University in Ohio and he was doing a show in uh in Dayton. And so you know, me and all the college friends went up and we're in the audience and stuff. And there's just something funny about seeing your dad tell jokes, of course, and also just the it's almost like the switch that gets flipped. You know, we're talking beforehand, and he's my dad, and then he goes up on stage and I don't even recognize who this person is. So I don't know, just from a from a young age, I I saw what laughter can do to an audience, what it can just how it can make people feel. And I've always despite never doing stand-up comedy myself, I've always wanted to sort of emulate a little bit of that when it comes to how we interact with each other.

SPEAKER_01

That's awesome. So let's drill down a little bit more on that. So, what is the role or the importance of of humor in communication? What do you think that is, uh, Matt?

SPEAKER_02

I always say humor and laughter helps us put our guard down.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Because I do think when it comes to communication, certainly in a business setting, uh, we all have a little bit of a guard that we have to put up, whether that is a guard we put up because we're a leader and we we need to be mindful of what we're saying to our our teams, or if we're in sales, we you know, maybe we need to be mindful of well, what sort of give and take do we want in this negotiation or presentation? And so I have for whatever reason, maybe it's because of my my past and and how I grew up. I I believe when we can get to laughing a little bit, sometimes at the silly things that we just do as people, uh, something that we can maybe connect on that that we find entertaining, then it puts that guard down and allows for just much more natural interaction. Um, I think people tend to trust you a little bit more when you can make them laugh, uh, genuinely make them laugh. And also I I think there's a humbling nature to that conversation. If I if I can make fun of myself, a little self-deprecating uh tone or whatever it may be, then again, I think people tend to trust you a little bit more. Um, also hopefully know that you don't take yourself too seriously, and I think sometimes that can help in communication too.

SPEAKER_01

Why do you think we don't do it more often though? Because there's so much upside.

SPEAKER_02

I think there, yeah, I do. I I think we're a little scared of judgment or we're we're scared if uh if the joke doesn't land, you know, if if you've tried to make jokes amongst friends or or business acquaintances, uh you're not gonna bat 100%. And sometimes you're just gonna leave that conversation later and be like, well, that one didn't work. And I I I do think maybe there's a little bit of that comedy background that I take from, because you know, most comedians will tell you that they've bombed a show before or they've they've told 10 jokes in a row that none of them hit. And you know, sometimes that's okay. But if you're if you don't take yourself too seriously and you're not too worried about the judgment of others, then um I think it helps.

SPEAKER_01

Well, and I think to your point, you know, if we can be humble enough to be able to self-deprecate or just make a comment that's you would we know in the past has gotten a laugh, you know, just like a comedian. You know certain lines and you know the certain delivery that all of a sudden, boom, there's the money right there, and there people are gonna laugh at that spot, you know, being willing to uh to try out new material and even that leverages it the material that you know that's gonna get a good laugh.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and you know, as a speaker, there's certainly uh, you know, there's practice parts of my speeches that of course I kind of know this will get a laugh. This uh this should be a part where an audience maybe engages. But there's like you know, some of the biggest laughs I've gotten from a stage at least, maybe something that just comes up in that moment, or it was impromptu a conversation we had five minutes ago before I went on stage that just you know resonated. And again, plenty of times I've tried it, it's gotten a great laugh. Other times I've tried it and it completely went over everybody's head, or I didn't say it the way I wanted to say it. Um, and so you just you know, you try to live and learn.

SPEAKER_01

Well, that's awesome. Are you extroverted, introverted, or ambivert? Kind of a little bit of a mix of each one.

SPEAKER_02

I'm probably I I have thought about this a lot because I think being a speaker, everybody assumes you are extroverted, which I absolutely am, but I'm probably more on that ambivert scale of things because I also I enjoy the peace and quiet. I I I recharge sometimes uh alone, uh just sitting or listening to music. But of course, if you get on stage, uh, you know, I've been known to go hit a karaoke bar. Uh there's I I don't mind the energy that you get from other people, but um, I I kind of like it both ways. So um call me somewhere in the middle to that. What about you?

SPEAKER_01

Um I'm an ambivert. I'm uh I'm in the middle there. I enjoy people, but um, too much of people, especially if I don't know them very well and having to extrude a lot of energy, then um I'm I'm with you. I need that quiet. Man, give me a give me a quiet room, give me a book. Uh let me just put my introvert on, which is surprising because a lot of times people don't assume those of us that are up front have any type of introversion at all. And that's that's usually not the case.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I actually I actually just had I was just coming back from an event, uh, I guess it was about a week ago now. And right before I I get on stage, I'm I'm kind of you know thinking through some of the points I'm gonna make, right? And and and how I want to start things off. And so it definitely looks like I'm very mellow, maybe thoughtful.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And the event planner came and said, you know, you're you're a little more calm than I expected, because on stage there's a lot of energy. And I kind of said to her, I was like, Yeah, just you know, give me five minutes and I think you're gonna see a different side.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, it's coming.

SPEAKER_02

It's coming. And then at the end, she was like, Wow, you weren't kidding. Uh that's that's awesome. So yeah, I think I think I'd I'd probably like you just kind of have both need both.

SPEAKER_01

Well, it's good that she saw that later on and make a comment about that to be able to see the difference on there. Uh Matt, what are some suggestions to making a good first impression?

SPEAKER_02

You know, I I I think a lot of the standard things that you that people would typically talk about making a first impression is always good. You know, eye contact, uh, your body language with people. Um, but you know, sometimes I I I admit I I struggle with how do you how do you make a good first connection, especially in rooms where maybe you don't know people as well. Um, it it is something I have been trying to work on a lot in in my line of work because I'll go to a lot of these uh business social events uh before I speak the day before, uh, and I don't know anybody in the room except for maybe the person who hired me, the the event planner. And you know, for years I think I kind of struggled with that, not not knowing how do you how do you make an impression to people that literally don't know you. And so I've tried to just kind of go back to those basics of your eye contact, your body language, um, taking interest in uh what people are saying, asking questions. Um, and and I I find that that's helping, that's helping, and it's certainly something that you know I think we all have to continue to work on.

SPEAKER_01

And you said something that I loved as far as asking questions, because I think so we can deflect if we have the ability of asking really kind of calculated questions. My father had a great quote who and he said, He who control he he who asks the questions controls the conversation. And I found that to be true, especially when you're in a room with people that you don't know, is uh my dad taught me, get him talking, son. Just get him talking.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And I I think that's that's great advice. And it's it's something that I've noticed too. With um if you if you leave a conversation with somebody, or uh let's say you're in some sort of a setting, right? You have a few conversations with multiple people, and you and you leave and you reflect back on, well, who did I enjoy talking to the most, or what did I learn? Oftentimes it was the person that was probably asking you questions because it got the conversation going. Um, you know, I don't think anybody likes to be interviewed in those settings, like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, right one after another. But uh, when somebody is curious enough to ask you about yourself or your questions or your stories, then it generally just makes you feel good. And and so those are the those are the ones that I tend to walk away from saying, man, that was I enjoyed that. And and then in turn, it is what I want to leave people with when we have an interaction. Uh, so I try to kind of model that same behavior as best as I can.

SPEAKER_01

Well, and I love the word you use on that curious. And if somebody is curious on there, it takes away that feeling of being interviewed because you're honestly you're trying to unpack and find different pieces of information from that person. And you're right, man. We walk away, we feel really good about the conversation. I think sometimes too, you know, if you're the one asking the questions, you maybe that's only 10% of the time you're two in the talking, but it felt like it was it was a lot more 50-50, wouldn't you agree?

SPEAKER_02

Absolutely. And and related to that, like one of the questions I have started using a little bit more, you know, not to be scripted in any way, but if somebody does say something that piques my interest, uh I I will often just say, Oh, that's that's very interesting. Tell me more. Love it, and then just kind of see where that you know takes us. Because um, if they're get if they get if they're into it and they're really interested in that topic, then you tend to sometimes go down different rabbit holes. And next thing you know, you're 10-15 minutes into a conversation. And uh, and I've I've so I found that question to be very powerful. I'm trying to, you know, use it as much as I can when something piques my interest.

SPEAKER_01

And that question again, if is that uh you're I'm very interested in what you just said. Tell me more. I love those three words, tell me more. Um, is being memorable important in communication, Matt?

SPEAKER_02

I'm sorry, I'm say that one more second, one more time.

SPEAKER_01

That's right. Is being memorable important in just in any type of communication?

SPEAKER_02

Ooh, that's a good question. I don't know if I've thought of it like that before. Be as being memorable. Um I want to flip that to you if I could. You know, what what are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_01

Well, I think if your attitude is that I want to be memorable for a positive thing, whether it's going to be boy, he asked me a lot of good questions or he made me laugh, then that's something memorable that I would want somebody to remember about me in that communication. That would be my my response to that. A great disagree.

SPEAKER_02

I I think where my mind went to with that question, it and and again, I think you answered it in a more positive way, is sometimes the memorable ones that I think about are are unfortunately the negative interactions you sometimes have. Um and and I would say, for example, I tend to not necessarily enjoy a conversation where it does feel very one-sided, or it feels like uh somebody was maybe they were asking you a question, but you can tell they're just waiting to answer the question themselves. Uh, you know, they're they're not listening, they're really just thinking about the next thing to say. And so those tend to be maybe the more memorable ones that stick out to me. And so I don't want to, yeah. Of course, I don't want to anybody to walk away from a conversation with me like that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, being that guy, right?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, being that guy. Um, and I and I absolutely, there have been times that I have been that guy and I walk away being like, that what what were you doing? Like that was awful. Um, be better, you know, that sort of thing. But um, yeah, so I so to to your point, right? Maybe the the the best way to be memorable is to to do the things that we're talking about, which is being being curious, being genuine, and really just being present in those conversations.

SPEAKER_01

Good answer. Good, good re uh response back on that, Matt. Well played. Um, how do you prepare to communicate with an audience before you get in front of an audience? What is what is your prep work look like, Matt?

SPEAKER_02

Well, when it, you know, when it comes to uh like a stage giving a keynote, uh, you know, my preparation has started years in advance, quite honestly. It's um I I will typically get up and talk on a range of four, five to six different topics that I've you know, I've spent plenty of time researching, I've spent plenty of time um understanding the the ins and outs of of the of a message that I'm that I'm gonna deliver. Uh, but also preparation comes down to the then those individual rooms and individual conversations. And that's where you're you're trying to understand who is who are the people in this audience and what is it that they're going through? What are their challenges? What are their successes? And what and what do they need to hear? And and the that's oftentimes multiple conversations with event organizers, uh, leaders at that organization or association. And so, you know, the preparation is all really just trying to get a mental picture for what sort of experience do you want to create. And then based on you know the years of years of work and um and practice, the then it becomes a little bit easier, more natural to deliver that. But um, you know, I think it starts by knowing your audience and and knowing what they want. And I think that applies to all business settings, right? You know, if you got to know which room you're in and who's there and why they're there, and and maybe what are some interests that's gonna guide your conversation most times.

SPEAKER_01

So if you're learning or rehearsing a brand new talk, something you've not given before, so just from trying to think of a listener right now who's going, you know what, I've got to I've got to prepare a presentation to give, let's say that it's in a sales setting in front of a dozen people in a boardroom, and they're doing that for the first time. What are some of the uh suggestions you may have as far as like rehearsal of that presentation that someone would have to give for the first time?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that that's a great question. And I I I think to answer that, there's a couple ways you could do it. There are what I will call extremely natural speakers who can add lib off the top of their head, um where their I think their preparation is going to look different. For me, I I am the I'm a person who loves to rehearse and loves to practice. I don't necessarily want to be scripted, but I want to have my key points really nailed down so that there's certain things I'm I I know I want to say a certain way. So how I will do that is I'll I'll generally write out what kind of an outline of what I want to say. And then for me, it's about practicing that over and over and over in a variety of settings. One of the ways I do this is if I am if I have written a new speech, I will put earbuds in and go for a walk around the block, go for a run, uh, and I will just practice that over and over. I put the earbuds in, I'm not listening to anything, but I put the earbuds in so that everybody else who sees me talking to myself doesn't think I'm crazy.

SPEAKER_01

Nice, nice.

SPEAKER_02

Um, it's it's a you know visual trick.

SPEAKER_01

As far as you know, it works.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, as far as I know, it works exactly. Uh, you know, I've there's also, I think it's important to record yourself. Uh we've all got phones. Turn it on yourself, record it, see how you look, uh, what sort of arm movements, body, body language do you have? Uh you can do that in front of a mirror if you'd like. Uh and then generally, I will, even before I go out on the stage the first time, I will uh do it for a small group of family or friends and have them provide feedback. Um, now granted, this is for a um, you know, these are for conferences that you might be speaking in front of a thousand people. If if this is a sales presentation, you probably don't have to take it to those extremes. But I do believe it's important to just rehearse it so that when you get there, you know the content so well that you can add lib, that you can go in a different direction if the conversation takes you that way. If you're spending all this time thinking about this, is what I wanted to say, and you get off track, it's it's hard to get back from that if you haven't practiced it enough.

SPEAKER_01

Well, that's key, Matt, because if you think about it in the context, and you did a good job mentioning that, pulling it back to if let's say it's a boardroom and 12 people are in there, you know, this isn't a keynote. This is potentially interactive. And if all of a sudden somebody asks you a question that throws you off your presentation mode, if you will, then then you're screwed. So it's it's nice to be able to have that to your points, those talking points where you can go off and add lib, answer the question, and then come back.

SPEAKER_02

Exactly. And I'm and I'm sure you've seen that too. I've I've been in those rooms as well where you can see the person that has, you know, I have 10 minutes of a presentation that I want to get through. But if a question comes in at minute two, they're lost.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, they're done.

SPEAKER_02

And and I and I think I think that can hurt your presentation, that can hurt your conversation. Whereas I at least I am of the belief that if you really know that content and you really practice it, you could address the question and get right back into it. Or you might even be able to address the question and say, hey, I'm gonna come to that here in in in three minutes, but I want to show you this first and why it's important before that. Um, I think it just allows you to, but I think you have to know that content in and out. And and for me, that comes from from practice. I think I think from a lot of people, the more you the more you practice, the more you're gonna be be ready to present when needed.

SPEAKER_01

How do you know when you're connecting with whether it's as granular as one person or as enlarged as an audience? Is it the same answer or a different answer? How do you know you've made that connection?

SPEAKER_02

You know, I think I think connection one on one, uh again, I kind of Go a lot to like body language and and feel. If you're having a one-on-one conversation and they they turn your shoulders to you and they're looking you in the eye with maybe uh at least the smallest of smiles on their face, uh, then you then you probably start to feel like you've got a little bit more of a connection to somebody who might be still be scanning the room to see who's there or who they need to go talk to. Um, you know, with a larger audience, I tend to go by the kind of the noise and sound of a room. Um so again, as as a speaker who typically gets up and delivers somewhat of a comedic message um about communication and and leadership. If I can, if if I if I know I'm engaging with that room, there's certain points and talks well, I'll know that I should get a laugh or I should see people looking at each other um and and hitting each, you know, hitting each other with little jabs and jokes. That's so that's obviously much different setting, and and not everybody who might be listening to this might be getting on stage and delivering those, but um that's how I'll notice it from a larger group is just the noise, the the energy you can kind of feel.

SPEAKER_01

Energy is a good word for it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, but I think you can also feel that energy individually, and and that's just you know, I think how people connect with with body language and eye contact.

SPEAKER_01

That's good. What mistakes do you see people interacting with each other?

SPEAKER_02

You know, I am a big proponent of just believing sometimes with with how much is out there in the world today, um, we we tend to try to put people into boxes. And one of the ones I talk a lot about is generational boxes. So if you if you look at somebody, you know, and you quickly judge by their age, uh, you might think that they are, oh, you're a Gen Z, so you're like this, or you're a millennial like this, you're a baby boomer like that. Yeah. And when that happens, I think what happened where I think the conversation goes wrong is when we put people in these boxes, we start talking at people instead of with them. That's good. And so it's a goal of mine to try my best in conversation to not talk at somebody, not try to um, not try to teach somebody, not try to uh put put them in a category where I immediately think that even the words that they're saying are jaded by this box that I have put them in. Um, and I'm not perfect, it doesn't mean I haven't put somebody in a box, you know, quickly in two minutes of a conversation, going back to some of those first impressions you may have. But um, I I think that's where we get off sometimes is when we're not talking with people.

SPEAKER_01

Love it. That's uh that's great advice, Matt. What impresses you as another person in an interaction?

SPEAKER_02

Um, you know, I think we've touched on a little bit, but I think it impresses me when somebody leaves me with the feeling that they cared, the feeling that they were present in however long our conversation was, that they were interested in what we're talking about, that they, you know, asked questions, or they they told an interesting story. Um, you know, those are the ones that leave me uh impressed and and leave me wanting to emulate that in in future conversations. Um, and so, you know, I think some of some of how you do that is what we've talked, what we've touched on a little bit, but uh I think the I'm impressed by somebody, not generally by what they've said, but it's like how they've made me feel good uh in that interaction. What about what about you?

SPEAKER_01

I think the same thing. I think if when I feel heard, Matt, um you know that somebody's truly listening and involved in the conversation. It's good back to this. That's interesting. Tell me more. Um, to the line that you alluded to earlier on there. And it goes, it is a feel. It is a feeling that all of a sudden this person's for me, they're on my side, um, that I am the most important person in the room at that moment, as opposed to like you mentioned earlier, scanning the room or looking around or looking down at their phones or anything else of that, that I feel like I matter to that person in this moment on there. So way to throw that out to me.

SPEAKER_02

What you know what else just you just like I'm also impressed by it as you said that, because I I agree, like when we when we can connect on something, maybe there's a similar interest, or um we have similar ideas maybe that we can collaborate on. I also am really impressed with somebody when we have differing opinions and but it's not a combative difference, right? Maybe, maybe I will have said something and they're like, well, you know, like I have a different opinion about that. Like let's let's talk about that in a casual, candid, um, non-threatening sort of you know, way. Like nobody nobody's gonna enjoy being challenged on every thought in a threatening way. Uh, and sometimes that's what happens um in today's world. But you know, when somebody can maybe challenge a thought I have or share a different perspective, I that also really impresses me. And and I personally love those types of conversations.

SPEAKER_01

And it's all on how that's positioned, too, isn't it, Matt?

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Where somebody could come across and use the word combative, and I think that's a good word where all of a sudden it feels like, whoa, now now my guard's up here. Yeah, we're saying something here where now I don't feel like you've earned the right to disagree with me and have that strong of an opinion three minutes into a conversation versus looking at it from a different lens or a different in my experience, when somebody says that, then my guard's down. I don't feel like they're coming across in in a combative way of there. Um, I also like how you mentioned too, just that commonality. When you find that commonality with another person. For example, you you grew up in Bloomington, Illinois. I've got two sons right now that are Illinois State University, which is in Bloomington, Illinois. You know, that you're a Chicago sports fan. You know, that's that's my uh my world as well. To a fault, it does show loyalty. And a few other we're gonna go with positive acronym or um positive words that reflect that as opposed to some negative things.

SPEAKER_02

So I think I think after this podcast, I think we can get you know off the recording and we can just talk about the joys of 2016 in the and the Cubs World Series. Exactly. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

But those are the commonalities that are there. So I think that's another thing too of the of the you're looking for when in a in a conversation on there. So but what would you say is still is challenging, even though we communicate for a living, Matt? What is still challenging for us and you specifically when interacting with people?

SPEAKER_02

Um you know, I I still think sometimes I think for me it's how do we get to those points of commonality? How do we um how do we kind of like start some of those conversations depending on the setting? Um, as I as I mentioned a little bit earlier, I don't I don't walk into a room of 500 people and immediately be like, great, here's you know, the person I'm gonna go talk to, and and here's I I can't wait to talk to all 500 people because there's still this certainly a little bit of call it nervousness or whatever it may be of how do I get into some of these conversations and and then and then from there, you know, it generally feels a little bit more comfortable. So for me, you know, still one of the challenges is maybe how you initiate it. Um and I I think that starts with small talk or maybe noticing something, or you occasionally you might overhear something and kind of introduce yourself into a conversation if possible. Um, but I think those are still some of the challenges that that I know I feel um is just initiating conversation in a in a setting that maybe you you you don't know people.

SPEAKER_01

That's good. That's really good. Um, last question before the rapid fire round here. Who is or was your biggest influence in your life on your business social skills, on who you've become in in communication?

SPEAKER_02

Ooh, um that's a really good question. You know, I think back earlier in my corporate career, I took a lot of um, I took a lot of inspiration just from the various leaders that I that I worked with, right? So I think if I had aspirations of upward mobility in in an organization, I would I would look at the people who were there and I would try to emulate what I saw from them in in business settings. And and it's a lot of again, but not to keep repeating it, it's a lot of what we have kind of talked about. I've I noticed leaders who were genuinely interested in the conversation would would walk into a room and look up and say hi to everybody in there. And then I saw leaders that would just walk in, put their laptop down and get right to business. And that didn't feel the same. And that wasn't exactly what I wanted to emulate. Um but I've, you know, coming going back to my upbringing and and and my parents, I to a certain extent, maybe take a little bit of inspiration from uh stand-up comedy and seeing how, you know, when you really think about it, stand-up comedians are talking about nothing. They're they're talking about the most obscure, sometimes mundane ideas, but they've they've taken these ideas and they've found a way to either connect with somebody because it's an experience that we've all gone through and we've just never looked at it in this way. And I think sometimes we can look at those shared experiences we have as a good way to connect with people, to your point about finding commonalities. Uh, and with standing up comedians, they just have a way of finding the humor uh in it. And so I will try my best to emulate some of those when I can.

SPEAKER_01

Excellent. Excellent. All right, top five rapid fire around. Are you ready?

SPEAKER_02

Oh, I'm ready.

SPEAKER_01

Good or bad remembering names.

SPEAKER_02

I'm pretty bad, but I am I am getting better. I'm I'm using the trick of repeating their name multiple times. So if we ever do meet, I'm probably gonna say your name three times.

SPEAKER_01

Excellent. That's what we call with uh Elite Business Connector, the three-peat.

unknown

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

Beginning, the middle, and the end. Excellent. Good or good or bad listener, if being completely honest.

SPEAKER_02

I think I'm a pretty good listener. I I think my wife would back me up on that. Uh if my phone is in front of me, I'm the worst listener in the world, which is why I try to put it away.

SPEAKER_01

That's good advice on that. A strength you bring into a conversation.

SPEAKER_02

I think I bring a little bit of humor and levity into a situation. You can't have too many, uh, you can't have too many serious conversations with me. I'm probably gonna make jokes along the way. And I I think in most settings that's appropriate.

SPEAKER_01

And we both share that, whether it's to our our benefit or to our demise.

SPEAKER_02

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

Within that so what is your pet peeve or just drives you crazy about people?

SPEAKER_02

Arrogance. Uh enough, enough said.

SPEAKER_01

How do you handle that if somebody's arrogant? Just I gotta know.

SPEAKER_02

Um, I will tend honestly, I will I never would excuse myself from a conversation unless it got blatant, but I will tend to just shut down a little bit when I'll put my guard up uh when I when I notice uh arrogance and I will try to find a way to leave that conversation if I can. That's good.

SPEAKER_01

I I default in a bad way. I get sarcastic.

SPEAKER_02

I probably do a little bit of that too, but um, but yes, it's uh it's just it's just a trait that I'm not I'm not fond of.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and it's easy to do, especially too when when nobody else feels like they're they're there to help the other person determine their level of arrogancy, that if you can um, you know, there's sometimes they're the last person, but everybody else around knows it because of the comments that's been made. So I have to be uh very careful on that one.

SPEAKER_02

So and I I think part of it too is that I I don't take myself too seriously, so it's I'm never gonna mesh well with with somebody who who does. And so that's kind of where arrogance for me is just it's like oil and water with me.

SPEAKER_01

Excellent. Bonus question here. What what are you learning right now, or what's what's been challenging for you that you're uh working through in your life?

SPEAKER_02

Um, well, I'm I'm I'm trying to learn how to deal with uh 11-year-old twin girls and um you know the start of junior high. So if anybody that's listening has any advice, please reach out. Um, but no, I think one of the things I am trying to get really intentional about is just discipline in action. So in my line of work, that that means uh I've got to be constantly writing. And so discipline looks like making sure every day I get up and I spend some time writing. Um, I haven't always been good about that. So, you know, that's something that I'm I'm definitely working on. And and really just I would say it goes to every, you know, you could add that to any aspect of life, but just making sure that you're you're disciplined and what you say you want to do, what you actually want to do, and then taking action in that direction.

SPEAKER_01

Excellent. If people want to get to know you a little bit more, follow you, learn more about you, where do they find you, Matt?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, you can find uh got my website, which is matthavens.com. It's just the name. And then on most of the social media platforms, it's at HavensSpeaking. Uh Instagram and LinkedIn are probably the two big ones now.

SPEAKER_01

Perfect. And I'll make sure both of those are in the show notes. Well, Matt, you've been awesome. Absolutely love the conversation on this, and uh thanks for your time. Thank you, Brian.

SPEAKER_02

I appreciate your time as well.

SPEAKER_01

I'd like to thank Matt Havens for his time and I hope you were inspired and challenged in this interview. To learn more about Matt, check out the links in this episode show notes. As my father used to say, thanks for coming. But most of all, thanks for leaving. I'm out. You got this now. That was your turn to do something with this.

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Bryan Buckley

Host