Elite Business Connector Podcast

The 7 Issues Holding Sales Leaders Back - 026

• Bryan Buckley

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What's really holding leaders back from their greatest impact? In this episode, Bryan Buckley sits down with Dr. Garland Vance and his wife and co-author Dorothy Vance for a candid, high-energy conversation about the seven leadership issues that keep even the most talented professionals stuck. Drawing from 25 years of research and their book Unleashed Leadership, Garland and Dorothy bring both depth and practicality to a conversation that's as much about people skills as it is about leadership development. Whether you're in leadership right now or aspiring to get there, this one is for you. Here's what they unpack:

  • The Seven C's 
  • From Individual Contributor to Leader 
  • The Four Questions Every Team Is Asking
  • Building Community That Lasts
  • The Connect, Don't Sell Culture 
  • Decide, Discern, Deliver


Episode Timestamps

0:26 - Show Welcome And Host Promise

1:13 - Guests And Unleashed Leadership Overview

5:54 - A Clear Definition Of Leadership

7:25 - The Seven C’s Framework Explained

10:24 - Character In Sales Leadership

14:45 - Competence After Promotion To Manager

17:16 - Capacity And Modeling Healthy Boundaries

20:05 - Clarity Through Four Team Questions

23:51 - Community Built In Small Moments

28:01 - Culture As Values Lived Out

34:50 - Decide Discern Deliver To Get Unleashed

39:53 - Rapid Fire On Communication Habits

49:26 - Closing Message And Subscribe Prompt


Featured Guests: Dr. Garland Vance & Dorothy Vance website


Featured Book: Unleashed Leadership


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Seven Root Causes Teaser

SPEAKER_02

95% of every leadership problem you've ever had traces back to one of seven root causes. Not bad luck. Not a bad team. Not even a bad market. Seven issues. And today's guests have spent 25 years proving it. Now, if you're in leadership or aspire to be a leader one day, this episode is for you. You win? Let's do this.

Show Welcome And Host Promise

SPEAKER_02

Welcome to the Elite Business Connector Podcast, where we believe how you interact with people will make or break your opportunity to develop a real and influential connection. Now, whether you're a rookie or a rock star with people, you're in the right place right now. Let's do it. Welcome to the Elite Business Connector Podcast. I'm your host, Brian Buckley, husband of one, father of five, and on a mission to help you develop, deepen, and master your business communication skills. And my promise to you is if you listen and subscribe, I'm gonna bring my best content and energy in interviews to help you get better every week, communicating and connecting in a business environment.

Guests And Unleashed Leadership Overview

SPEAKER_02

Now, today is an interview with two leadership subject matter experts. Not just one, but two. I know them, so I cash in on a buy one, get one, a free deal that benefits you. I know, I give and I give. So let's get to know our guests. Dr. Garland Vance believes every person deserves to work with a great leader, and every leader can be great. He has spent over 25 years helping organizations develop the leaders they need to succeed. The author Getting Unbusy, which Forbes named, one of seven books everyone on your team should read, and 2020's best business book by the Author Elite Awards. Dorothy Wood Vance has been helping leaders discover and maximize their unique talents and gifts for over 25 years, empowering good leaders to become great. And with her husband Garland, she co-founded Advanced Leadership, which is recognized as one of the top 20 leadership development companies in America. She and Garland now live with their three children in Knoxville, Tennessee. So let's join this conversation with Dr. Garland and Dorothy Vance. Well, I'm live right now with two of my favorite people here, Dr. Garland and Dorothy Vance. And uh where are you and how are you guys?

SPEAKER_00

Hey, we're doing great. We're in Knoxville, Tennessee, enjoying a beautiful day here.

unknown

Yeah. Excellent.

SPEAKER_02

And Garland, are you there too? And uh I'm here physically. We'll see if I'm here mentally. Okay.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

We'll give over-under on that right now. The polls coming in right now need to increase. Dorothy is winning by a lot of results. So just kidding. Well, Garland, we I'm the two of us, we go back quite a ways here before.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. It we we have connected for several years and uh have uh grown a friendship over that.

SPEAKER_02

Exactly. Yeah, we try to scare each other off, but we keep coming back and we keep putting out books. And you were on my last podcast, Elite Road River Podcast, which did very, very well on there and your previous book, which we'll touch on that as well. And then your you your books come out before mine on that. So your book came out the fall and was a huge fan of of that book, and then my came out and you reciprocated.

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Powell We really have, and I'm grateful for that. There's I think we know if this episode doesn't do as well, I think we know that it's Dorothy's fault. Like she's the she's the uncommon.

SPEAKER_00

She's the new component.

SPEAKER_02

She's the new variable. I'm gonna guess probably that's not gonna be the case. We'll give her the early, early pass on that. So that's funny on that. So let's dive right in, guys. I mean, I am super excited uh about your book here. So what before we even get started here, let's give me just the 30,000-foot, since I travel all the time, you travel all the time, 30,000-foot view of the unleashed leadership book.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, we came up with this concept because everyone who leads has experienced that tension of knowing what it's like to feel like I'm getting ahead. And then you go three steps forward and get pulled back, four steps maybe, eight more steps, two more steps backwards. And that gets old. So we created this framework to help people get released from the leash, to recognize that wow, there's this disparity that's existing between my abilities and my responsibilities. And what can I do to raise my abilities to meet the current responsibilities that I have?

SPEAKER_02

Love that. Great overview. Anything you want to add to that, Carla?

SPEAKER_01

I feel like that was a great job of doing that. But I really do think that that insight of it's the disparity between my abilities and my responsibilities. And a lot of leaders feel shame when they experience that. They kind of cover their head, they don't want people to realize it. And what we want to do is help leaders understand this is normal, but it it doesn't have to stay that way. There's ways that you can get unleashed where your abilities can catch up to your responsibilities. Perfect.

SPEAKER_02

Well, and obviously the focus here is leadership. And to make it very clear to those that are listening and following along at home, these are for leaders currently, right now. And so many of you that are listening, you have that aspiration, that desire to become that leader. And that's one of the reasons why I absolutely love this book because it's gonna allow you to get a little sneak peek behind the covers and hopefully get ahead. So some of these areas where maybe leaders that you have seen and are maybe are experiencing right now, and you're like, ah, they need to listen to that book or read that book, or it's gonna help you to kind of figure that out. So if you're listening along right here and you're in leadership right now, spot on for you, if you are wanting to go there, uh, listen with those lenses too as we kind of go through that. So speaking of that, let's make sure we get on crystal clear on the same word, on the same page, on the same chapter, the

A Clear Definition Of Leadership

SPEAKER_02

same book. Define leadership in your guys' terms.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So this is so important because leadership has become this ubiquitous word, right? We all talk about it, we all, you know, have leadership development opportunities, all of these things. And we're using this word, but we're not using the same definition of the word. And so what we say is we we want to come right out and explain what our definition is. And so here's what we say a leader is. A leader is somebody who sees a clear, preferred, and desired future, who gathers others around that future, and then who mobilizes others to create that future. And so it's got you you hear three verbs in there. They see the future, they gather others around the future, and then they mobilize others to create the future. The future is really the king of that definition. The future is the thing that's leading the leader. The leader sees it, they want to get people toward it. And that's what we often miss is that we think of leadership in terms of managing certain numbers or just, you know, some people focus on results, some people focus on relationships.

SPEAKER_00

Or personality types.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, or you know, you have to have charisma or things along those lines. And at the end of the day, the leader is somebody who is so focused on the future that they bring others with them. I love that. I love that.

SPEAKER_02

And bring them with. Yeah. So they've got to see, they've got to gather, they've got to mobilize. All right. So let's dive right

The Seven C’s Framework Explained

SPEAKER_02

in. In your book, what I love about there's seven issues, which are very intriguing. When I've when I first saw that on the subtitle of that, well, what are the seven issues? So let's can give it just a quick overview of what you mean by the seven issues. And then I've got specific questions that I'd like to drill down on leadership in our world here as business professionals.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So we'll do a high-level overview of it. But the the summary of this, before I even get to that, is we took 25 years of research with leaders and working with leaders, and we just started asking the question what are the common issues that we see cropping up over and over and over again? And 95% of the time or more, it comes down to one of these seven issues. They all start with the letter C. And I'm going to try my best to give a one-sentence summary of each of them, which uh all of us can attest that's short summaries are not my gift. Okay. Number one, thank you, Garland. Dorothy, please continue. Just kidding. Just trying to save us time. We both talk way too much. So number one is character. And character is about making the difficult decisions, taking the hard actions, demonstrating humility, putting others before yourself. Second issue is competence. And competence is are the skills that you currently have in line with what your organization needs and what your team needs for you to have. Third issue is capacity. And capacity is all about the time, energy, and attention that a leader has to be able to lead. Fourth issue is clarity. Clarity is about that vision of the future. Are you clear on where you're headed and how you're getting there and what each person's role is in getting there? Fifth issue is community, and community is about that environment of trust and collaboration that a team needs in order to be able to thrive. Sixth issue is culture. Culture is all about aligning the values that you say you believe and that your company says, aligning those with the behaviors and the processes and the resource allocation that your company does. And then the final one is consistency. And consistency is about being dependable in your vision, in your attitude, in your emotions, in how you carry yourself and even in your expectation of others.

SPEAKER_00

That was pretty good there.

SPEAKER_01

Whew, thanks.

SPEAKER_00

You may have had some run-on sentences, but I put semicolons and dashes in there.

SPEAKER_02

Well, he cleared customs, Dorothy, and that's what matters. So I've got seven specific questions, and I've got them right here. So I'm going to drill down on those in the context of a business traveler. Again, for those that are leaders right now, think through why how much is this an issue for me and what do I need to change? And then for those that are aspiring, something like this, boy, I have a tendency, I could lean that direction, or I'm witnessing that right now, and this is how it changes. So going back to characters, since that was the first

Character In Sales Leadership

SPEAKER_02

one right here. You mentioned arrogance and lack of accountability as core character failures. We've seen a lot of that. How does a sales leader specifically character, how do their characters show up in the tone they set for how their team connects, not just sales? How does character infiltrate that world?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, we see it in leaders who don't take responsibility for the outcomes of their team. You know, a true leader who is showing character in leading a team is one who's going to accept responsibility for failures or mistakes, but then also give praise for successes, to give that away. Leaders who are truly caring about their team as well as their clients as people, that's a leader who's showing strong character, not a character issue. Those who are putting the spotlight on other people, allowing other people to shine and to show their giftedness instead of making it all about themselves. These are ways that you can tell that somebody's overcome character issues in their leadership.

SPEAKER_02

Excellent. And how many times have we seen that? So if let's let's take it, if I'm the person who's being led by somebody like that and I notice that, how do I handle that?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that is a very common question that that we get in any situation where we're uh training in any of these seven C's. We our tendency, I think, as human beings is whenever we hear about an area of improvement that one can make, is to look at other people instead of pointing the finger back at ourselves first of, oh, wait, how can I improve? So the that question that you're asking, what do I do if my leader is not the one that is showing, you know, strong character? That is one of the first questions that we get so much of the time. So we this is how this is how we answer it. First, we bring up the point that we're here about your leadership, yeah, not about the people who are leading you.

SPEAKER_01

You've got to get unleashed before you can help anybody else get unleashed.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, there's there's a lot to be said about modeling, even if it's modeling for somebody who's leading you.

SPEAKER_01

And then I would say there's also just a tendency if if your supervisor is the person who you think is demonstrating low character, is just using questions to, you know, to draw things out. And so it could be questions like, hey, uh humility seems like it's really important in leadership. Would you agree? Have you seen people who have done that before? What did you learn from them? And so a position of curiosity, I think a lot of times leaders, and we've seen this so many times, you'll see leaders who know the good they're supposed to do, but they forgot it. In the midst of all the chaos of leading others and all the KPIs and all that stuff, they've just forgotten it. And there's just this moment where they go, Oh, oh yeah, I'm supposed to treat others well. I'm supposed to care about other people. I'm supposed to take ownership. And when they see that and they remember that they've had other models, other mentors and leaders who have done that for them, I think a lot of times that awakens that within them.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I don't know that very many leaders would respond well if you went to them and questioned their leadership characters.

SPEAKER_02

Or lack thereof. Or lack thereof. But I what I love about what you guys do is it's leadership development. So it is sometimes it is that reminder, like I said, it may not be as far as a character flaw. It may be simple as a character reminder that it is truly important on that. And hopefully this episode and your content uh becomes just that um as a reminder for a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00

We do separate moral character from leadership character. I mean, the hope there is that the moral character is standard.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, don't buy, steal, cheese. Right. Don't do that.

SPEAKER_00

So we're going a different kind of above and beyond the ethics of a situation and speaking to how can I grow as a leader in my character? How can I have these hard decisions and hard conversations that other people might try and flee from? What how can I be the kind of leader who faces those?

SPEAKER_02

Excellent. Well said, guys.

Competence After Promotion To Manager

SPEAKER_02

I love the next one on competence. Because so many people in sales, for example, under that vertical, they're very competent. And that's how they ended up in their role. Absolutely. So my specific question is is well, they were individual contributors. What's the most common mistake they make when they try to use their old selling skills maybe to solve new leadership problems? So it's one thing being a really good sales guy or girl. It's a different thing when you're the leader of that sales team.

SPEAKER_00

Totally different.

SPEAKER_01

Totally different. So I I think the most common mistake that that leaders make when they've been a really good contributor and now they're promoted into a leader is they don't slow down enough to ask a few really important questions. Okay. And I would say there's really three questions they need to ask. Question number one is what kind of work is most valuable in my role right now? What kind of work is most valuable in my role? So if you're an individual contributing salesperson, the most valuable work that you can do is sell, right? It's the it's the prospecting, it's the reaching out, it's all of those things. But if you're in a sales leadership position, then maybe the most valuable work that you do is the training or the support or the removing of obstacles or, you know, connecting them with others. There, there's some options there. So number one is they need to ask, what's the most valuable kind of work that I need to do? Second question is based on that most valuable work, what are the skills my team needs me to develop? Or what are the skills my organization needs me to develop? So let's say training became the most valuable thing. Then you need to develop the skill of creating new training materials or connecting with good vendors and the skill of presenting in front of people, the skill of creating tools and workshops and things along those lines. And then finally, that leads to the third question, which is based on those skills, how do I need to manage my time differently now so that I can develop those and give those val give that valuable work to my team? And that's powerful insight because those are three different things in and of themselves. Yeah. Yeah. And most leaders don't slow down enough. They just keep doing what got them promoted rather than slowing down and saying, what do I, what does my team need now?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that's good. That's good. It's a different battle. Yeah, different game on that. So love that. Love

Capacity And Modeling Healthy Boundaries

SPEAKER_02

that. So let's go move to capacity. What does a sales leader with healthy capacity actually look like to their team? Then how do those people around them experience that difference on a daily basis?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So if you've got a sales leader with a healthy capacity, then you're looking at somebody who has learned how to manage their time, their energy, and their attention. And that's gonna trickle down to the people that they lead because those people are gonna see that, oh, this is what's expected of me. If if you're a leader who is reachable when you're on vacation, it doesn't matter how many times you tell your team you need to rest while you're on on vacation, you need to rejuvenate, I want you back here refreshed. If they can reach you on vacation, then they're gonna think that they're expected to be reached on vacation. And that's why it's essential for the leader of a team to model what it looks like to have healthy capacity.

SPEAKER_01

That's a great example. Yeah, and I I would add to that that a leader has to be a leader has to have enough time in their calendar to be interrupted because there will be nonstop surprises and interruptions and emergencies that take place. And so again, a leader has to manage their time differently so that they can be interrupted. And so both of those. I think those are both things.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So do they schedule interruptions or do they just need to handle interruptions a little bit better because they're now it's somebody else's agenda, not necessarily theirs?

SPEAKER_00

A leader's calendar has got to have that fluff space. You you cannot pack your calendar if you have people reporting to you where there is absolutely no room for people to get their needs met. And we've seen people handle it different ways. Some people are very strategic about it. And, you know, like the professors who have office hours where here's where I'm reachable from this time to this time every Tuesday, here's why I'm reachable on Wednesdays. Or we have people who are more spontaneous about it. You might use a post-it note, for example, on your door. This indicates you can come in. This indicates I am need thinking time. But whatever method a leader chooses, they need to understand that there has to be some leeway in your calendar for your people.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And they have to, as long as they understand what the method is, right? Whether it's office hours or post-it note or whatever, as long as they understand it, that's so important.

SPEAKER_02

And that may be the takeaway right there is do my people know what my reality is? Maybe may just start with there. And that's good. That's unless we need those simple little nuggets. So I love when we get into communicating and especially specifically clearly. So here's the question there.

Clarity Through Four Team Questions

SPEAKER_02

There's a difference between a leader who thinks they've communicated clearly to their team and those who have actually received that clarity. What's the most common gap between those two and potentially how does a leaders close that gap?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so uh we think that every person on your team is subconsciously asking four questions every single day. They're not asking these out loud, they're not knocking on your door and asking you to answer these, but they're subconsciously-they may not even realize they're asking it. But they're asking that. They may not even realize it. That's absolutely true. But they're asking it. So here's the four questions. Where are we going? In other words, uh, what's our what's our big goal? What are we trying to achieve? And actually, a lot of times sales teams are really clear on this, right? Here's a number, we've got to hit this number by this deadline, right? Where are we going? Second question is how are we getting there? What's the plan? What are the processes that we need in place? How are we actually getting there? A lot sometimes sales teams are really good at this. Third question, I think, is where a lot of it breaks down. And the third question is, what is each person's role in getting there? And understanding the unique function that each team member plays and how to lean on each other to help everybody move there. And then the fourth question, and I would say I'm I'm not real sure sales leaders do this really great, but why is it important to get there? How's it going to make the world a better place? How's it gonna make your family better? How's it gonna make the organization better? And I think a lot of times leaders answer one or two of those questions regularly, right? They'll say, here's the goal and you know, here's the plan. But they don't always answer and consistently answer all four of those questions for the people. And here's how you know you've answered all four of the questions well. When everybody on your team can answer. The same answers. They know where we're going, they know how we're getting there. They understand their role and each individual's role in getting there, and they know why it's important to get there in the first place. When your team answers the same way across the board, then you've got clarity.

SPEAKER_02

To your point, I've found we have a lot of listeners that are in customer service and hospitality. And you can see, let's say that you're going into a hotel chain. Recently stayed at Ritz-Carlton, had that unique experience. I loved it, but I also like talking to leadership and hearing how they take those four in a huddle and the redundantly redundancy that they have to make sure that all four of those are aligned and even how empowered that they are to be able to do one of those things, to make sure we say guest the guest is pleased and they've got thousands of dollars of a limit that they can go to go make that happen is pretty amazing. Now that's Ritz Carlton, you know? But I think the point is that at least their their culture, and we'll get to that a little bit later on, is one of how do we make sure we take care of people from soup to nuts. In this case, here are your four questions. So love that. I love the alignment of that.

SPEAKER_01

And and here's the one thing I'd point out about that is a lot of times people think Ritz Carlton can do that because they're the most expensive.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But I don't know that they were, I don't know this for sure, but I tend to think that's putting the cart before the horse. You get to become the most expensive because you do those things really well. And people can and you train your people well, and people come to expect that from you. I tend to think it's the service side that comes first, and then the price can increase. Full ingredients. No argument there.

SPEAKER_02

What is the one thing a sales leader in this, we're talking about a little bit more on the sales side here, can do in the very first minutes of any team

Community Built In Small Moments

SPEAKER_02

interaction? Meet with their people, whether it's a meeting, maybe it's a coaching conversation, maybe it's just catching them in the hallway that either builds community. That's the key word right here. We're talking about community that builds community or maybe kind of quietly disrupts and disturbs and destroys it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. We would say just uh one of the first things you can develop as a leader is to remember the important things about people, like their name.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, important too.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. And and you would be amazed at how many people will push back on that. Well, I have however many employees. How am I supposed to remember everyone's name? Well, guess what? You don't have to rely on your brain. You can create some sort of system. There are so many digital ways that we can remember things these days that it has become so much easier to remember things like people's names. Other things. Can I interrupt you real quick on that? Dorothy, real quickly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Nobody listens to podcasts gets a pass on that one. Because we talk about nailing the name all the time in a number of creative ways. Do you remember the name in there? So you're right on that one. But if they're thinking they're going to get a pass on this one, listening to this podcast ain't happening. So we'll move to the next one. And maybe they're hoping they'll get a pass on eventually. So sorry to interrupt.

SPEAKER_00

Sure. No. Glad you're you have our back on that one.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, you do.

SPEAKER_00

Other important thing, who the who people's important people's important people are. You know, as a mother, it thrills me to death when somebody says something beyond how's your oldest doing, but when they call them by name and remember, you know, what what my oldest name is and what what grade they're in, or you know, little things about them, important dates, events, experiences, just these little nuggets that again can all be captured in a system. But it's it's amazing when you have leaders who that's not important to them, but to care about people with that particular habit, how it erodes trust. Just just taking that relational aspect off the table, how quickly trust disappears.

SPEAKER_01

Anything to add to that, Carlin? I think she did a quite quite a great job on that. It's like she wrote a book on it or something.

unknown

I know. Right.

SPEAKER_02

And we got one to prove it. No, but I think the point is on community, is how am I creating community with that person and what matters to them? I mean, it starts with a name, but also to, you know, the the important people to you. I love that aspect of that. And that really, really creates that community and that trust.

SPEAKER_00

And that's just basic. That's just step number one right there.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Right. What would you say step number two would be for those, for those who's just going to take it to another level?

SPEAKER_01

I would say they have to help the other people on their team do the same thing with each other. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

A lot of leaders don't realize that when it comes to building trust on a team, yes, you're responsible for the trust that you have with each individual person. But if you're the leader of that team, then you also are responsible for the trust that's taking place between each partnership or, you know, each relationship on your team. There are things that you can do to influence that trust and influence those relationships.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And we we've seen this with clients that we worked with before, where, you know, one department didn't trust another department, or one plant didn't trust another plant, or one group didn't trust another group. And all it took was them, I wouldn't say all it took, most of what it took was them connecting to each other, getting to know each other as human beings. Right. Realizing, oh, you have good intentions, I have good intentions. You have big dreams, I have big dreams. You have problems you're dealing with that are preventing, you know, us from getting where we're trying to get. I have problems that I'm dealing with. And once they're able to do that, then silos begin to break down because we're dealing with people and we trust them and we can collaborate.

SPEAKER_00

Not just tools.

SPEAKER_02

Excellent. I love that. And I think this is probably one of these or the seven issues that people sometimes either do really well or they're really lousy at. Yeah. I find that there's often not a middle ground and just the importance of community. And I think community kind of leans into the next one here of

Culture As Values Lived Out

SPEAKER_02

culture. It's a reflection of what gets celebrated and what gets ignored. And we've touched on this just a little bit here. But for a leader who wants to build kind of that connect, don't sell mentality or the opposite of that, where it's it's maybe by default, their culture they've created by not really creating the culture is selling and not connecting of that. What behaviors need to be celebrated that most sales organizations are maybe they're they're not thinking about that they're overlooking and maybe should focus in on.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So this is such a hard one because you are you are paid literally to get sales, right? You are are paid to do that. But what we find is that the, as you said, what gets rewarded gets repeated, what gets recognized gets repeated. And so we have to celebrate leaders who are trying to do this connect, don't sell. You have to celebrate the behaviors that do connect, and you have to celebrate the results that you get as a result. So it could be things like celebrating when one of your team members goes above and beyond in recognizing a person. So a potential customer, like recognizing their birthday or an anniversary or a special holiday. Like if they remember that, celebrate the fact and draw attention to the fact that they did that. Ask some of your folks to tell you about the people that they're trying to connect to. Don't tell me just about the contract that we're trying to sell. But if you're a sales leader, ask your people, tell me about the person, what's important to them. How are you connecting with them on LinkedIn? And if you're connecting with them on LinkedIn, are you celebrating the things that they're pointing to? I think little behaviors like that help shape, yeah, we got to get the results. We need to get the results. And at the same time, let's celebrate the little behaviors that help you connect with people along the way.

SPEAKER_02

That's great. And that's so important, guys. I mean, yeah, obviously if we're in sales, if that's our world, or we get we're bonus or commission based if we're in hospitality or customer service, whatever. Having somebody recognize beyond the dollars of that sometimes matter more. You know, having those mad kudos where it's an announcement or something that's there and why. Why was that important? And not just being a one-time thing. So I love that. Anything else on just in culture in general, because it's such a powerful word uh in leadership.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I would say the the other part to think about in culture is culture is shaped by the values you say you believe. Right. So if you say you believe something and then you don't do it, then you automatically are going to create an unhealthy culture. And so it's it's really we we take folks through a process where we'll say, okay, let's identify the values that you say you believe.

SPEAKER_00

We separate out aspirational values and actual values.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, good.

SPEAKER_00

What are the values that you say you have but are not in practice? And what are the values that are actually in practice?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And then it's really give a couple samples. Let's let's just stroll down this because that's really good, Dorothy. Sure. Can you guys give me a couple couple examples of where you're seeing a difference between actual values and the aspiring values?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Well, let's talk about the company who says things like we value people above profit, but yet every time they sit down for a meeting, the first thing, maybe the only thing they're discussing is profit. That's not living out of the values. You may say that your aspirational value is to value people ahead of profit, but what your actions are showing is that your actual value is profit.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Good example. Yeah. And so we take, we take folks through this exercise where we say, okay, let's list out your values. And then what are the behaviors that you see that are confirming that as a value? What are the behaviors that are conflicting with that as a value? And and culture is shaped. And you know this from you talked about Ritz Carlton. Culture is shaped by the behaviors that we say. So Ritz Carlton talks about valuing customers, about valuing people. And when you say thank you, they say my pleasure, right? That's a way of living that out. Now, and Chick-fil-A went on and they stole that from them, right? And that's okay. Like that's a that's a great thing to steal. But it's because Chick-fil-A says their number one value is customer service. And so we're gonna serve people by the way that we respond to them. So confirm or look at your behaviors. Do they confirm or do they conflict? And what behaviors do you need to change in order to get those values you want?

SPEAKER_02

Love it. That's a that's his own episode right there. So to wrap up this the issues here, out of the seven we've just listed, is there any one or two that you find that

Which C’s Trip People-Facing Leaders

SPEAKER_02

are people that are in the people business? I mean, not just business in general and leading, but in the people business, people facing on a consistent basis. Maybe they're struggling with the most in leadership that you guys would say, yeah, I'm seeing this as a one or two.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I I would say that say I'd have two two potential answers for that. If you are in the people-facing business, then I think the biggest issue they struggle with is usually capacity. They're so busy that slowing down to care for your team, to care for your customers, that becomes very, very difficult because you have so many demands on you. And then if you're on the sales side of things and in sales leadership, I think we usually see sales leaders struggle with the community side of things. They're often so like results-oriented headhunter kind of people that they don't slow down enough to build that trust and build that relationship so that the whole team can thrive.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, we we often see silos that exist between a sales part of an organization and a service part of an organization, and uh not a cohesiveness there when really if there was a camaraderie and an understanding of and a trust built, then you actually could follow through with more of the sales that you're making.

SPEAKER_02

Well said. And I think especially on the community side of things, that's a chance to also affirm. So you're getting back to that, you know, I think of how many sales, you know, SKOs that I'm involved in, you know, their stress is the end of the month, the end of the quarter, the end of the year. And it you know it's coming on that. And so when they are rewarding that, it's more than, hey, you know, Jeff just hit his numbers, Samantha just hit her numbers. It's going back to the culture, the things that are there. So I think I I I see how all seven of these are integrally together on this. But it doesn't stop there because the goal is to get unleashed. Yeah. And you do that in three different areas.

Decide Discern Deliver To Get Unleashed

SPEAKER_02

So let's not talk about how to get unleashed within those three specific areas.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So again, we like alliteration. So we have three D's here. We're just gonna move through the alphabet.

SPEAKER_01

Nice. When we get to three X's, we're a little we're a little scared of what's gonna happen. Nice.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. Here we have decide, discern, and deliver. And what we found is that leaders are usually action-oriented people and they jump right to that deliver piece and they have not taken the time to think through their actions. So, first, stop and decide: is this important enough to you to take the time to get unleashed, to create a strategy that's gonna get you unleashed? Is it worth the commitment that you're going to need to make, the sacrifices that you're going to need to take to put other things aside so that you can take the time to get unleashed? So we always encouraged, hey, don't jump into this. I mean, if you're gonna do it, take the time to think through if it is worth it to you. And then the discern stage, you're still thinking, you're still not moving yet. And it's there where you think back into what got you into this mess in the first place. You identify what the real issue is. A lot of times you may think it's one issue, but once you dig under the presenting problems, you figure out, oh, wait a minute, I've been trying to solve this issue and it was not this issue all along. It's actually this issue. So what a huge waste of time I was doing in just jumping into action. So you pinpoint what the issue really is, and then you create your strategy of how you're going to move forward, what your critical actions are going to be in order to transform that issue into a trait. Once you've got all that thinking done, that's when you can finally move in to deliver and take action on your plans.

SPEAKER_02

Well, and I love your what your book does. Uh, because it obviously takes you through here are the issues, but it doesn't leave you there. It talks about exactly what it is. And there's a lot more that just happens before, just flat out action. And I really like that because as leaders, the last thing we need to do is is actually we're gonna change this and then we cause more damage because we do it once. We say it's a huge value of ours, and then we don't do it again. And what does that do? I'm sure you've never, never, ever seen that, right? No, never. Never.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that that deliver stage is a process that needs to be repeated over and over again throughout your leadership.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And you'll have some resources, and we'll talk about those in just a few minutes here, that can really help people. And what I love about this too is we're not just about the first five minutes, which is huge. We're not just about communication and connection, which is huge, but it all falls and rises and falls with leadership. And if we can make those changes at that level, everything could really change for everybody else on there. So that's why this is critical to have you guys on the episode. Before we get into the kind of a rapid fire questions here at the end, let's wrap this thing up. Any specific action items or things you want to go back and just say, hey, let's double down on that again. It's a reminder or something that popped into your head going through this that you would really like to share and make sure we've got you've got this wrapped up.

Consistency And Naming The Real Problem

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I would say uh one one of the seven C's that we didn't linger on too long is that last one, consistency. And in fact, when we first created this framework, we only had six issues. And a good friend of ours is one that pointed out hey, if you implement all six of these, but you don't implement consistency, then it really doesn't matter if you just do it once. Consistency is about showing up every single time, turning all of those issues into traits and then waking up every day and consistently implementing them.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And I think that's important that you have to decide and discern before all of a sudden you decide that's what you're going to do on there so that you can be consistent on that. Garland, you want to add to this?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I would say I think all of this started or a lot of this started uh years ago. I I heard a quote, and it was by some philosopher or stoic or somebody, you know, Aristotle or somebody famous, or or maybe somebody from last century. I don't know who it was from, but it stuck with me. Yeah, Dr. It could have very well been. But it it stuck with me because it was a problem well named is a problem half solved. A problem well named is a problem half solved. And so often what Dorothy was talking about is we as leaders jump into solution thinking before we've actually named the problem. Is it character or competence or capacity or clarity or community or culture or consistency? If we can name it, then the solution to it goes much faster.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Love that. Well said. Well said. So if we get into before we get into learning more about you guys, what some of the things that you're gonna offer for the listener right now, I love

Rapid Fire On Communication Habits

SPEAKER_02

rapid fire. And I think what's this is gonna be the best one ever. Because normally it's just monoimano on this. And so what I want to do differently on this one is instead of just asking the question, you're gonna answer it for the other person on this. So you ready for this? Marriage counseling sold. Marriage counseling sold separately. Yeah. Yeah, we're married and in business.

SPEAKER_01

So if either of those falls apart, you're on the hook, Ryan. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02

Deal. Deal, bring it down. Consistency. All right. Number one, naturally good or bad at remembering names, naturally.

SPEAKER_01

Dorothy used to be really, really good at remembering names. And I think children, are you gonna say age? Old age. No, I'm kidding. Yeah. Okay. No, but uh so you used to be really good at it, but uh it's taken a step back.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell Yeah, but you know what, right back at you.

SPEAKER_01

I know.

SPEAKER_00

But what's funny about Garland is he not only will remember people's first names, he always remembers people's first and last names, like from way back in his long-term memory when he's telling a story about kindergarten, and he'll be like, first name, last name.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So I got good long-term memory of people's names. I just have to take a long time to get in there.

SPEAKER_00

It's a good thing you've got all of your systems in place for remembering names.

SPEAKER_02

Love that. This is this is good. I'm I'm glad we have more than just one question. Uh talker, talker or listener, which one are you naturally? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I'm gonna let you go first on this one because I jumped in and yeah, this one, this one's a talking.

SPEAKER_00

For sure. For sure.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. What's funny with Dorothy is if we're in a group together, everybody thinks she's like the better, the better listener. And she probably is the better listener than I am. But in her natural state, she is much more talkative than listening oriented.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, we're we're bad at interrupting each other.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

My wife and I are very similar at that area. They just assume that I'm more of an extrovert, but I'm also the guy after a bunch of people, I want an hour to read and nothing. And my wife, after 10 minutes, is like, where'd everybody go? There's nobody to talk to.

SPEAKER_00

That's us too. That's exactly us. Yep.

SPEAKER_02

Which shows a little more of an extrovert there, but that's I digress. Uh, which is a D. So you can add that to your D's. More scripted or spontaneous? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Garland is best when he the more spontaneous he is. I we I have been in trainings with him where right in the middle of the training, he has spouted off this brilliance. And I'm in the back going, where did he get that? Like that would that's not in our notes. We did not plan this. And then I'll come up to him afterwards and say, Who, whose material is that? Who did you steal that from? And he was like, Oh, I just came up with that in the moment. And that's when he's at his best.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And so does anybody remember that though? Do you guys write that down? Is it or is it lost?

SPEAKER_01

I now have a little, I have a I'm not wearing it right now, but I have a little recording device, a plawed recording device. And anytime like something like that pops up, I'm like, I'm gonna record this real quick because there may be good. It may be good. And sometimes it is. Yeah, I would say when it when it comes to training, Dorothy very much likes to be scripted in that she goes over the notes, she she memorizes those notes, maybe not memorizes, but really, really makes sure that she knows those notes really, really well. And then when she's scripted, she can be a little bit more spontaneous with it.

SPEAKER_02

All right. We answered, for the most part, good or bad listener, if completely honest. But we can add to that improving. Is there improvement in that area of being a really bad question?

SPEAKER_00

I would clarify by saying that Garland is a bad hearer.

SPEAKER_02

Nice.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Ross Powell But once he is listening and you know that he's actually hearing you, then he is a good listener.

SPEAKER_01

I think Dorothy is a great listener. Like I am always shocked by the details that she remembers about what people were saying and the insights and all of these. We were doing this with a client last week, and and we got to the end of the week and we were going through and recording notes about conversations we had and things like that. And what Dorothy could, I was like, how can I can't even imagine all the things that she remembers?

SPEAKER_02

That's great. Very good listener. It's a gift that you can give to people, Dorothy. My my wife is a very empathetic listener. It's a very high value. So this question you get to answer on your own, which is what is your pet peeve or just drives you crazy about people?

SPEAKER_00

We're answering it for ourselves. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

She said answer it for ourselves this time.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. I remember what you said.

SPEAKER_01

Oh. You don't remember what I can tell you what Dorothy said.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

unknown

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00

Do you want to go? Okay. So for me, like anytime somebody is just commits half-acary, I would call it. Nice. Like if you're gonna do something, please just do it to the best of your ability. Don't turn in just this half thought-through junk. I want to see exceptional. I want to see excellent. And I know you can do it.

unknown

Good.

SPEAKER_01

That's a good one. Yeah. Yeah. I I would say one of my pet peeves is when people don't ascribe good intentions to other people. Like people, like other people are gonna mess up, they're gonna, they're gonna do things. But if you immediately assume bad intentions, that drives me crazy. Because I think it says more about you as a person than it does about them and and what they're doing. And so I just I always try to go, okay, surely this person had good intentions. If I can understand those good intentions, then whatever mistake they made, I think we can get past that.

SPEAKER_02

Very good. One word answer for the other person. A strength or the superpower the other person brings into a conversation.

SPEAKER_01

Mine has to have a dash in there. That's fine. Well read. Well read.

SPEAKER_00

And uh mine has a dash too for Darlan. Quick thinking.

SPEAKER_02

I would agree to that. Very quick-witted. All right. What's one connection skill you wish everyone would work on? One or two words.

SPEAKER_01

Are we answering this for ourselves or for the other person? Dealer's choice. Okay. Okay. I'll I'll say mine. Okay, yeah. I I wish people, when they walked into the room, walked in with the intention of how do I make somebody feel great about themselves? I know that wasn't a two-word answer, but if you go in with that, then everything will take care of itself. Aaron Powell In our world, we call that look at you, not look at me. Oh, I like that.

SPEAKER_00

That's good. For me, I think if people would learn how to ask really good questions and throw the ball back.

SPEAKER_02

Love that. Excellent. Guys, you did great on that. That was really, really enjoyable. I've got 14 more that popped into my head that I would love to answer on that, but that'll have to be B-roll, they'll have to pay for that separately. So guys, let's close this by saying if I'm a listener right now, I'm in leadership or aspiring to be a leader.

Free Audiobook Offer And Community

SPEAKER_02

How do I learn more about this? Tell me more about the book where I can find the book. Is there any certain bonuses that you have to offer? How can they get more into your world to develop as a leader?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. We've got two ways that we'd love to give to folks. So the first way is if you go to advanceleadership. But if you go there, we actually have a free audiobook copy of Unleashed Leadership. Dorothy and I read that, and there's actually about an hour's worth of bonus material in there where we go off script a few times and give some some bonus insights.

SPEAKER_00

And of course you can purchase the print copy. But we had a lot of fun with this audio version of it. And it's easy to listen to in the car or on a plane trip. But the this book that Unleashed Leadership, we wrote it short for a reason. And that's because we know people's attention spans are not much these days. So it is about the length of your average plane flight.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah. Especially if you get stuck on a runway as much as we do. Imagine that. Then here's the second way, uh, second thing that we'd like to offer is we have recently created what we call the unleashed community. And it is for leaders who want to connect with other leaders across North America to one, to help grow each other in our leadership, and two, to get ongoing training in getting unleashed. And so we meet twice a month for about 90 minutes. We do 45 minutes of that time, is us training or somebody in our network doing some training with leaders. And then we're connecting those leaders to each other to process those things, to celebrate wins, and to keep pushing each other further and to get unleashed faster.

SPEAKER_00

We'd love to have you.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I'll make sure all those links are in the show notes and uh everybody can get into your world as quickly as possible. So, Garland and Dorothy, thank you. Yeah, it's been a pleasure today. Thank you for investing into me. Thank you for investing into the Elite Business Podcaster community. And uh, what a gift. Oh, thank you. Thanks, Brian. Always good to spend time with you, man.

Closing Message And Subscribe Prompt

SPEAKER_02

Well, episode 26 is officially in the books, in and out, and nobody got hurt. And I'd like to thank Dr. Garland and Dorothy Vance for their time and investing into us. And I hope you truly walk away challenged and better as a result of this interview, whether you're a leader right now or aspire to be a leader. Remember that all this episode's links of their book, the free audiobook that they're giving away, website, LinkedIn, et cetera, are available in the show notes. And don't forget to follow and subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts so you never miss an episode. And if you're watching us on YouTube, don't forget to subscribe and leave a comment. Let us know what resonates with you. And you know it's coming as my Chicago Bears chant: good, better, best, never let it rest till your good gets better and your better gets best. As my father used to say, thanks for coming, but most of all, thanks for leaving. I'm out. You got this now. Now is your time to do something with this episode. And always remember to leverage your first five minutes to build connection, trust, and influence. You got this now.

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Bryan Buckley

Host