Elite Business Connector Podcast

What a PhD in Communication Says Great Connectors Do Differently [Interview with Dr. Brenda Buckley-Hughes] - 032

• Bryan Buckley

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 57:29

What separates a good communicator from a truly great connector? In this episode, Bryan sits down with Dr. Brenda Buckley-Hughes — his sister, a PhD in Communication, and a lifelong student of how people truly connect — to unpack the science and art behind meaningful conversation. From the power of pitch, pause, and pace to why the first five minutes of any interaction can make or break a relationship, this episode is packed with practical, research-backed insight for anyone looking to communicate with more intention and impact. 

Topics Covered:

  • Is communication a skill, a gift, or both?
  • The 3 P's: Pitch, Pause & Pace — and how to use your voice as a tool
  • Nonverbal cues most professionals underestimate (and one to avoid)
  • The First Five Minutes framework for sales and business conversations
  • How to overcome the fear of public speaking by shifting your focus
  • What great connectors do differently in one-on-one vs. group settings
  • Presentation prep: what to practice and prioritize in 72 hours
  • Communication advice for new professionals and seasoned speakers alike

Timestamps:

00:01 – Meet Dr. Brenda Buckley-Hughes & family backstory 

02:09 – How growing up with two opposite communicators shaped Brenda's career 

04:40 – Is communication a skill or a gift? 

07:08 – Nonverbal cues most professionals underestimate 

09:13 – The 3 P's: Pitch, Pause & Pace

15:18 – Overcoming the fear of speaking by shifting focus to the audience

19:35 – One-on-one vs. stage: strategies for every communication setting

25:46 – The first five minutes framework: personal, professional, problem

33:41 – Inside Dr. Brenda's book: Introductory Speech Communication 

38:35 – Presentation prep: what to practice in 72 hours 

42:33 – Advice for new professionals and seasoned speakers alike 

44:52 – Rapid Fire Round 

49:45 – Finish the sentence: "You lose a room when you..." 

51:32 – FAM Edition: The Buckley family communication style 

52:23 – Closing thoughts on becoming a better communicator 


Featured Guest

Dr. Brenda Buckley-Hughes is a communication scholar and educator with a PhD in Communication, based in Nashville, Tennessee. As Bryan's older sister (by 16 years), she has spent her career teaching oral communication at every level — from freshman speech classes to doctoral seminars and is the author of Introductory Speech Communication: Overcoming Obstacles, Reaching Goals. Known for her warmth, precision, and memorable delivery, Brenda brings both academic rigor and real-world insight to every conversation.

Download Free Cheat Sheet: here.

Resources to Use:

The System Elite Connectors Use to Remember Names

If you’re serious about improving your business communication skills, I created a step-by-step system you can download right now — absolutely free.

👉 Grab it here: 


30 Connection Questions for Stronger Business Conversations

This is a proven question set to improve every conversation in the 1st 5 minutes.

👉 Grab it here: 


Buy the 1st 5 Minutes Book:


Follow Me on Social Media:

Meet A PhD In Communication

SPEAKER_02

What if you had the opportunity to learn from a PhD in communication? Someone who is brilliant, but can also put the cookies on the bottom shelf, and you can learn the very principles that she teaches private school students for free right now. What would you ask her? Well, good for you because you get the opportunity to learn from one of the best. My guest holds a doctorate in communication. She's an award-winning professor who's taught speech communication for over 30 years. She's written a textbook. She's shaped thousands of students in an undergrad, graduate, and doctoral levels. And she also grew up in the same house I did. How about those apples? This is episode 32 of the Elite Business Connector Podcast, and today, well, it's in the family. Welcome to the Elite Business Connector Podcast, where we believe how you interact with people will make or break your opportunity to develop a real and influential connection. Now, whether you're a rookie or a rock star with people, you're at the right place right now. Let's do it. Welcome to the Elite Business Connector Podcast. I'm your host, Brian Buckley, husband of one, father of five. And I'm on a mission to help you develop, deepen, and master your business communication skills. And my promise to you is if you listen and subscribe, I'm going to bring my best content and energy every week to help you get better at communicating and connecting in a business environment. And I want to set this episode up before we dive in because this one is different from anything we've ever done before. Today's guest speaks into it from a place no one else can. Dr. Brenda Buckley Hughes has a doctorate in communication from the University of Tennessee, Go Valls. She's been teaching speech communication for over 30 years. She's an award-winning professor. She's an author. She serves as an assistant vice president of academic affairs at Judson University in the Chicagoland area. And with more than 30 years of teaching experience in the undergraduate, graduate, and doctoral levels, Dr. Brenda Buckley Hughes is one of the most credential voices in communication education in the country. She's an award-winning author of the Introductory Speech Communication, Overcoming Obstacles, Reaching Goals, and it's a textbook that has shaped how thousands of students and professionals think about their oral communication. And she's also research exploring through classroom culture, telepresence, distance learning, and the communication dynamics of institutional leadership transitions. And she's my big sister. So what you're going to get today is not just theory. It's the combination of 30 years plus of communication research and teaching, but it's also filtered through someone who knew me before I even said the words the first five minutes, but understands the first five minutes concept incredibly well, as you'll find out. And we're going to cover where great communication actually comes from, what business professionals consistently get wrong, what happens to someone in that transformation from terrified to transformed, and the nonverbal cues that most people in sales and customer service are completely ignoring. Plus, we'll do the normal rapid fire at the end. And trust me, those questions are going to lay a little different when it's your older sister in the hot seat. This interview was enlightening and it was fun. So let's get to it. Please welcome to the stage Dr. Brenda Buckley Hughes to our podcast. All right, I am live right now with the Dr. Brenda Buckley Hughes. How are you and where are you?

SPEAKER_00

I am doing great. I'm in the beautiful state of Tennessee, right here near Nashville.

SPEAKER_02

And uh I've actually been to your house, and we'll we'll unpack that just a little bit further down the pipes here. So what most people don't know if they've realized the middle part of your name has the name Buckley on there, and that's not coincidental, is it?

SPEAKER_00

No, not at all. Brian and I are brother and sister. I'm the firstborn, he's the youngest. And there's something to be said for that. 16 years difference.

SPEAKER_02

I know. Crazy about that, which is his own story in and of itself. In and of itself. So one of my one of my favorite stories, though, is when you got your doctorate and our middle sibling, our brother Bruce, and you had mentioned, or he mentioned to you once you got the doctorate, I am never gonna call you Dr. Brenda Buckley. I mean, there's just never gonna be a chance on that. And do you remember your response on that? Why don't you share it? Because it's made a huge impact on you. Yeah, scarring, actually. No, I used it. Because I was right there witnessing it. And you said to him, Oh, don't worry about it. Nothing that formal. Then your doctorate in communication came out because you had a traumatic pause. We both thought you were done. And then you said this phrase, the most honorable will do. Which was awesome. Great content. So I'm watching you enjoy that little precious moment there. And then, of course, Bruce's response, that's even less likely to happen. That'll never happen. What? With that. So that was my first moments of celebration for for your doctorate to go from there. So great, great.

SPEAKER_00

Dramatic pauses, people then notice what's said exactly after the silence. The silence is an exclamation mark, but it's a silent one. And boy, it landed.

SPEAKER_02

We're getting nuggets already. We haven't officially started the interview. So that should give you hope, listeners, of where we're headed. But most importantly, how do you feel about giving your little brother control for the next few minutes? How are you feeling about that?

SPEAKER_00

I I have the feeling he thinks he has control, but we will see if that actually uh plays out.

SPEAKER_02

Uh which shows you truly are more smarter, S M-A-R-C-R.

SPEAKER_00

Yep, more smarter. That's that's the word. Yes.

Where Great Communicators Come From

SPEAKER_02

So let's talk about our family dynamic and communication that we witnessed. So we grew up in the same house, same parents. But what was it about our family that made you decide to go all in on communication as a career? Because that has literally been your own career, now bouncing around here and there.

SPEAKER_00

Basically, I watched mom and dad be two sides of the same coin. Uh, they both knew how to communicate, but dad was the presenter. He was the one up on the stage. Uh, he was the one who was humorous, who got everybody to enjoy and feel like they were a part of things, but he was sending the messages, sending the humor, sending the enjoyment. The other side of the coin was mom. Mom was the one who was quietly listening, asking questions, allowing the person she was talking with to respond, to send the messages, and to feel like they were being seen and they were being heard. And it was interesting because they were opposites. And as we know, opposites connect. And that was the perfect connection for the two of them. Dad was a performer. He could keep an audience totally mesmerized by the way he spoke, by the comments he made, the stories he told. Mom often wasn't on stage. Normally she was alone, one-on-one, interpersonal, interacting with people. And what we know in communication is that individuals tend to be more comfortable with one aspect in front of an audience or with the other aspect one-to-one. So if you prefer one over the other, that just means you're normal. You are typical. And if you can do both, I guess that means you're a communicator that's ambidextrous. You're able to switch back and forth depending on the need.

SPEAKER_02

That's well said. I mean, we've got so many memories of that. I mean, even dad being bigger than life on stage, you know, I remember witnessing him off stage and he was locked in. Yeah. And it didn't matter if you're eight years old or eighty years old, you had his attention in that moment. And yet, mom on the other side of that, to your point, I mean, she was locked in as well. On the listening side of that, you always felt seen and heard and valued from mom.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, totally. Yeah. Two different gifts.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that's good. That's good perspective on for us as it's obviously because all of it, we're both of us are in the communication space, and that kind of see where our careers have

Skill Versus Gift And Real Listening

SPEAKER_02

gone. So is communication a skill or is it a gift? And what do you say the person who walks and just says, I'm just not a very good communicator?

SPEAKER_00

I think it's both. I think some people are uniquely gifted as communicators, but it's still a skill. It's like learning to play a piano. Some people are uniquely gifted playing that instrument. But if they practice and practice and do it over and over, they can become more skilled in it. And I think it's important for individuals to realize it is something that can be learned. Yes, there are others who can just get up and just, you know, off the cuff, just talk and throw out information. But there are those individuals who don't want to do that. They want to take the time to really study and give something of real depth. And those are the ones actually that we as listeners need to stop and pay attention to. I think about politics. Why? Why? Because it's easy to speak off the cuff. I just mentioned politicians. Many of them have a lot to say, but some of it's puffing. There are those who are don't want to be up on front. They want to really take another person and say, let me be a benefit to you. Let me help you. Now that's not to say the politicians don't want to do that, but I do think it's important to know that somebody will take the time to study, to understand where the person who's listening is coming from, to understand the depth of the content that will benefit them. That is what we're really after. So if you're in sales, it's not enough just to get somebody to like you. It's more important to find out what's their need. And can you get to their point of need and meet it, as opposed to, well, I just want to tell you what I have to offer. Well, that's anybody can do that. But can you take the time to listen to them and to hear what they need and then say, you know what? I'm here for you. Let me help you. And as soon as you do that, the person will be listening with a real ear to understand. I think one of the most important things when you leave a conversation is that that person who was there, whether it was a potential buyer or a student or a child, for them to know I was seen and I was heard. And as such, I feel valued.

SPEAKER_02

So in your research on communication, especially oral communication, what are maybe two or three nonverbal cues that people, in the context of business, because we're talking to business professionals, that they constantly, maybe they underestimate, they devalue, they just don't think are as big of a deal.

SPEAKER_00

I think the first one would be eye contact. You know the old saying, you know if the salesman won't look you in the eye, don't trust them. Well, that's actually there's some truth to that. I think the second would be the use of voice. We can get into a habit, just a habitual way of speaking, and not use our voice to convey how we're feeling about something, or if we're excited about something, or using our pitch for a different way, or pause, which we mentioned earlier, just to let the voice be a pleasant sound, be a sound that will allow the other person to go, oh, now I get what you mean. One of the uh nonverbals that can be a negative is touch. Gotta be very careful. We are in a society that's quite litigious, and so to shake somebody's hand is one thing, but to reach out and squeeze their arm or put your arm around them, you don't know what's happened in their lives. And so to them, that could send a message that is very negative or derogatory, and you have to be very careful about that. Teachers are aware of that. We often have uh studies, workshops on being careful with students because we don't know what happened to them as children. So those would be my two positives and then a potential negative.

Nonverbal Signals People Misread

SPEAKER_02

Those are good. Let's let's double back on the pitch and the pause. Okay. Because whether we are, let's say we're in hospitality and we've got a guest that's coming up to us with it with an issue. Let's say we're walking into, I don't know, maybe this concept called the first five minutes of a business conversation in a sales context, and we're just excited. Like we just got to push through to get through that I call the small talk triangle. Like just how do we get through that vicious triangle to get to the pitch. But we're meaning a different pitch. Yes. So let's talk about the other pitch and also the pause in a couple of those different contexts, especially if it's an angry guest or sales.

SPEAKER_00

The three Ps, the pitch, the pause, and the pace. Uh, the pitch would be how your voice changes. We have a lot of notes in our voice, but we tend, let's say if we have we have approximately eight to ten different pitch levels, like notes on a piano, and we tend to use only two, maybe three, and we get into that habit of saying, my habitual pitch is right about here, but that's not my optimum pitch. My optimum pitch is up here. So I have all these notes I can use. And if you vary your pitch, that catches your audience's attention. If you use the same pitch over and over and over, they can zone you out.

SPEAKER_02

So, real quick on that, how does somebody recognize that? Does that something of a self-awareness or is it being coached or both?

SPEAKER_00

Both. It becomes a self-awareness if somebody has mentioned it. Like right now, next time you speak, you're going to think about your pitch for a moment. Maybe not every time, but you might think about it for a moment. It does take coaching. Uh, one of the things in my studies in oral interpretation is how do you speak to provide variations that help the audience hear you in a different way? Pause, as we mentioned earlier, is when you take a moment of silence before going on or in between thoughts, as opposed to just talking and then going, um, because you didn't want the silence.

SPEAKER_02

Well, um, it does.

SPEAKER_00

But um doesn't sound as intelligent as that brief silence. If it goes too long, then yes, that can be awkward. But even speaking with a complete thought, before we open our mouths, we need to know where we're going with that thought, as opposed to get halfway through and then um while we figure out the end. Think about the full thought. So that would be pitch, pause, and then pace. And you can speak of pause, speaking of pause, yes.

SPEAKER_02

Is it true that we feel like if we're pausing, the pause feels longer to us than the receiver of that?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, unpack that. Absolutely, absolutely. And then we'll do something like say, I'm sorry, when they wouldn't have thought it was a problem at all, and we just kind of jumped in with an apology. So just take the pause, it's not as long as you think it is, and then just go on. For the pace, and this links to pause as well. You had mentioned a moment ago, Brian, about you know, rushing to the triangle or trying to get everything out. Rushing through it isn't going to help the listener get it any better. In fact, it's going to get in the way. It creates an obstacle for them to trip over because they may have to say, What was that you said? Can you repeat that? Just don't get into that really fast pace. But I can tell you it's easier said than done. Because when we've got something important we want to share, we want to get it out, we want to hear it right away, and then it's over and it's too bad. And we go, What did they say? And then they're embarrassed because they've got to ask you. You're embarrassed because they couldn't get it. Pacing is important and vary your pace. Don't have everything be fast or everything be slow. It's like, can't be too extremes. It needs to be some variety. Pace some, pause some, change your pitch.

SPEAKER_02

Excellent. Pace is a growth area for me. It always says, you know, my one liner for that is, you know, I eat fast, I drive fast, and I talk fast because I'm from Chicago. So, you know, there's there's that. But there is truth to it. I mean, it's a it's a defense mechanism when the reality is sometimes I feel like, well, I've got a presentation and I'm already behind because somebody else went longer before me, or it's in a sales presentation and you feel like they're looking to watch. But the rushing of that to your point doesn't mean it's gonna help just because they're going faster. In fact, if anything, it could be a disabler of effective communication. Agree or disagree?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, totally. Agree. It can really be a problem. The other reason I think why we go fast is we're afraid we're going to forget what we're going to say.

SPEAKER_01

That's a good one.

SPEAKER_00

Because so much is going on. And so we want to get it out before we forget it. And I've gotten halfway through a statement about, I don't know where I was going with this. Yeah, that's what happens. But the pace needs to be very, but if it's too fast, it's just too fast.

SPEAKER_02

That's good. And I think for the listener, I'd rather have somebody have pace and keep me engaged, and I appreciate their vulnerability that they forgot where they were, than to rush through it and then I'm just trying to catch up. I'm still a mile back. And that's another part of the pause, too, is if all of a sudden I'm going too fast and I don't I'm not aware, I call it OQ, observational intelligence, that I just lost somebody off the back of the trailer, or they're confused, and so they're not listening because they need to ask a question or process. So I can see another benefit there of the pause. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00

And they may feel like if you're pausing, that is an opportunity for them. And so as such, they can engage you as well.

SPEAKER_02

That's really good.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

Or the person who likes to over talk, they don't want to pause because that gives the other person a chance to jump in to the conversation when they're not done. But obviously the next more.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. They may just want to keep going. Yeah. And so if that's the case, then that can cause doubt or mistrust in the person who's listening, going, give me a chance to speak up. Uh, what's going on here?

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Well said. Well said. And that's observational intelligence.

From Fearful Speaker To Confident Helper

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So obviously you've seen thousands of students walk in, we'll call it going from being terrified, let's say it's speech class, coming into college, and maybe they're walking out somewhat transformed. I mean, not that they're going on a stage in front of a thousand people, but the fact of where they transform from that, what actually happens over the course of that period of time that causes that going from I'm terrified, I can't believe I'm doing this, to, well, I'm a completely different person. I feel so much more comfortable in front of other people.

SPEAKER_00

That's an interesting question. There are a number of things taking place. One of the things is to help them understand that that fear comes from a place of being afraid of the audience. Like they're going to judge me. They're going to think I don't know what I'm talking about. I might fall apart. I might forget. And all of those statements have one pronoun in common, and it's I. They're only thinking about me. I, the speaker, the presenter, the talker, the salesman. It's all about I. And that's exactly wrong. You need to totally flip that. It's not about me, it's about my listener, my audience. Where are they? What can I do for them? How can I help them? What do they need from me? If I talk too fast, what can I do for them to help them? Well, I can slow down because it's for them. For me. When that happens, when we change their perspective, and that's really what it is, it's perspective. They start to see that the audience is responding. They might respond nonverbally by nodding, by eye contact, grinning, smiling. And that feeds into the speaker. Okay, they're getting it. I'm getting through their understanding.

SPEAKER_02

You're actually communicating.

SPEAKER_00

I'm communicating. And as they move through that process, what I actually do with my students at the end of a speech is I have the audience sit there and give them compliments. What's the speaker do well? Because we as speakers tend to be hard on ourselves. And so if they can hear from an audience member, boy, I really liked it when you told the story about what happened with your dad, or thanks for sharing that idea because I was just struggling with that. Then the speaker goes, Oh, I did something right. I succeeded. Okay, if I did it this one time well, maybe I can do it the next time well, and maybe the next time. And success breeds success. Yeah. And they both have that outbreak then of confidence. It doesn't happen every time. It could be the first time you speak, it goes really well, and then the next time you fall apart. That is life. Bottom line. Time story is that the greatest fear is giving a speech. People would rather give a speech, be the person, or they would rather be the one in the casket than the one giving the speech about the person in the casket. Because yeah, they don't want to be the one talking. They want to be the one who's just laying there silent. Okay. Talk about pause. For them in particular. Um yeah, dramatic pause. So when we know that that's the norm, that actually helps us to know that people are nervous about speaking, that they're afraid they may be judged. Forget that. Think about the person who's listening to you. What do they need? How can I meet their need? And when it's all done and said, they'll know I was working to help them, not myself.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, there's so much there. And I think if we're talking about our context, let's say that it is when the sales world where we're walking into somebody that we we have an idea who we're going to meet, because we set up the meeting with them. We have the ability to do in some research on them. We talk about connection points, not just data points, not just random details and things, things about them. And if we really use the first five minutes framework and make that connection with somebody, it should, to your benefit, change the rest of the communication. Because you feel like now they're not going to judge me. They're on my side. I feel like we're, you know, we're clicking, if you will. That when we do move into the communication side of that, hopefully I'm even more mindful of, well, I want to help you because I feel like we're clicking here. And I'm thinking of you, not necessarily me, is our our vernacular is look at you, not look at me. How do I be impressed seeing or oppressive in looking at the other person than being uh, you know, how do I impress and think through the other person that their mindset than necessarily of mine? So go back to that evolution as well. So if somebody is in, you know, in the business professional world of that, how can they start to make their own going from terrified to transformation and to get better in that specific area?

SPEAKER_00

Well, it would depend. I think if it's a one-on-one interpersonal setting, like you're on a sales call with one person, or if you're up on the stage. So let's go with the one-to-one. I think one of the best ways to minimize that fear is to ask questions. Uh, work to get to know the person to whom you're speaking. And when you get to know them, one of the things I like to do in particular is as the conversation develops and goes on, is to tie back to something they said earlier. That lets them know I was listening, I was paying attention. And that also can bring out some humor at times because they may, oh, I didn't know you were listening to me. Well, I was. Exactly. I heard what you said, and that was that was. That lets more air into the room then, you know, because you laugh together. If you're up on the stage, I like to tell my students you really need to find somebody in the audience or somebody's who are giving you positive feedback and feed off of that because they will encourage and help you. Now, the negas negative side of that is when I'm in an audience, I know that. So I will give positive feedback. And I have found over the years that speakers begin to stalk me with their eyes because they know I'm nodding and I'm smiling. You're locked in. I'm locked in, and that's what they need. So for you as a speaker, if you're feeling like, oh my goodness, I don't know if this is going to work, focus on somebody in the audience. The other aspect of that, before you ever get up there, would be to be prepared. Uh, bottom line, the reason we have stage fright is because we think we're not ready. And if we're not ready, we've got reason to fear. We may mess up because Yeah, we created it. Yeah, we create it. We didn't prepare like we should. So the one side is that solid content, that good preparation. But then the other side is, as we mentioned earlier, the delivery of that con of that solid content. Um, you can have all the content in the world and sound like an encyclopedia, or you can be oh, wonderfully bubbly and delightful and have no content. And it shouldn't be one or the other. It needs to be both. And when you know you have both and you step before that audience, you're going to feel like I'm here for you. Let me let me benefit you, please. And that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_02

And that could be even we got the context of a you know, a stage, and that could be like an elevated stage. Right. You mentioned the one person. Sometimes the stage is six people in a conference room. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Because there's more than one, and so there's different air time that's there. And so to your point, you know, I find myself attracted to the person who's nodding, who's in agreeing with that. But I also got to be aware the other guy right there, kind of a little smile brow, it is like, and you can tell he's got a question or something's not selling right. And that that's also circles back to the pause and to the pitch and to the pace. So I like how this is fitting together.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And your opportunity then to ask a question. You know, I've noticed some of you don't seem to be agreeing with me. Well, I have a problem with that. Tell me why. Uh, what is it I'm saying that doesn't necessarily ring true to you? Or what does ring true to you? Or how would you change this for the benefit? That gives them an opportunity to speak up.

SPEAKER_02

If we let them finish their sentence.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, if we let them finish, yes.

SPEAKER_02

So there's that with some of us, not to name call those that are listening at home or in a car. So I just finished a book called Every Conversation Counts. It's actually the next episode by a guy that's been in TV for 17 years, and I love one of his phrases. He actually says, overprepare so you can improvise.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, that's right. Overprepare.

SPEAKER_02

So you're so prepared.

unknown

Yep.

SPEAKER_02

That gives you the freedom that you can improvise. Now, whether to your point it is one-on-one, to the extreme of being on a stage, or it's in that conference room with six people, goes back to your point of preparation.

SPEAKER_00

Right. So when it comes to any kind of conversation, let's go to the six in the room.

Handling Group Rooms With Bridges

SPEAKER_00

That I think is harder actually than just one-to-one or on a big stage. How so? Why? Well, because you're just sitting right there together and you're not up presenting, and yet you're not focused on just one person. So you've got to get in touch with everybody. And I think yeah, it is a different dynamic. And a couple things need to happen. There needs to be a two-way communication with everybody in that room. And some may not want that. So you've got to read the room, basically, and be aware of that fact. The conversation should be easy flowing. It shouldn't be jerky and bunched up and then, oh, maybe okay. Well, what do you think? And no, it just needs to come and build off of what's being said. Transitions are so critical in that type of setting. If they've said something, don't change the subject and jump over here. Build a bridge to that new idea and show how it links to what they said. That's good. Yeah, then they know you were listening to them, or okay, I just put up with what you had to say. Now I want to say my stuff. Okay. Bridges are a really strong metaphor when it comes to communication. Bridges of reaching them, getting to them, and then bridging back as they come back to you. It's it's a come and go, and it has to be there. The example I like to use is like a tennis game. When you're in a conversation, you hit the ball over the net and then they hit it back. If they don't hit it back, if they hit it down to the ground, you know, then it's over. So to keep that going back and forth and back and forth, that takes skill. It does. But it comes from doing it over and over again and learning from each time you do so.

SPEAKER_02

And for those that are pickleballers, that same application applies just because it's tennis.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02

You're against tennis, doesn't mean you can't get the analogy on this. Or you're gonna let's let's talk about fluency just for a moment here, because you obviously studied it extensively. When in communication, one of the things we teach in in Elite Road or Elite Business Connector is communication, which is all about me and how I'm communicating, what I'm saying. Conversation is all about you or me, which is the back and forth you mentioned. Ultimately the goal is connection, which is about us. But in order to get to both of those, those first few minutes, so when somebody's communicating in your background as you're working with them, what's so important about building that trust at that in those first, maybe even just the first minute or two?

SPEAKER_00

Well, it's critical for one thing because it's not going to go much farther if you don't build that trust, if you don't build start to build the relationship. And that's what it's about. It's a relationship, and it comes from the nonverbals responding, letting them know you're there, you are listening.

SPEAKER_02

Come start.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it could come from a verbal. Is that right? I didn't know that. I didn't realize that. Those are the types of phrases that encourage them to continue with what they're saying. But in you've only got those first five minutes, and then the time's up. And if you don't begin to make that connection, another metaphor would be open that door between the two of you. You know, the door is shut and it's not going to reopen. If it's not open in the beginning, it will take the entire presentation to try to squeeze it open. And by then, they've got so much information that that was needed. So first five minutes are absolutely crucial. And they should be a time of enjoying getting to know the other person and having them get to know you, both how credible you are, personable you are, and really focused on the need of the person to whom you're speaking.

SPEAKER_02

For those listening along in a car right now, she just nailed the first five minutes. First minute think personal, middle three minutes think professional, last minute think problem, which is great. You've trained obviously students at every level from undergrad to graduate to doctoral. What are some of the communication habits that even educated professionals? Obviously, we're talking about the context of of a business environment, where they still get wrong. Like what are the basics that all of a sudden they're still just struggling with, but yet are just so critical?

SPEAKER_00

Right now I'm teaching 18-year-olds, by and large, at a local community college here in Nashville. And I'm finding for some of them they aren't aware enough to be afraid yet. But when I teach a doctoral level, there's a lot of fear because at that point they feel like they have become the professional, and if they mess up, people are going to think they don't know what they're talking about. I'm also working with nurses at a nursing school in the Chicago area taking speech classes, and they're concerned because they're good one-on-one, but they have no comprehension of being in front of an audience. And to them, it's a totally foreign concept. So the idea of realizing people are people. And it goes back to what do they need and how can I help them? How can I meet that need? And if we don't change perspective for the speaker and get it off of self, then there will be ongoing fear. That's just that's the reality of it. Now, for the younger students coming in, many of them have never had a speech class. Now think about that for a moment. They've taken reading classes all their lives, they've taken English classes, but here they are in what, their 13th year of school, and they've never had a speech class. Well, we need to speak all the time. You'll know how to talk. Not necessarily. And so it it's important for them to realize this is once again a skill. A skill we're going to learn and we're going to practice. And by the time you leave here, you will be improved. I don't want to make them into somebody that they're not. I don't want them to become Barack Obama, who was an excellent communicator, but that's not who they are. I don't want to make them into Condoleezza Rice. Fabulous speaker, but that's not who they are. I want to help them become the best of who they are. And if they can get that focus of, okay, here's who I am. How do I improve who I am? That's that's something of real value.

SPEAKER_02

And I don't want to make sure we miss that because there's so much gold right there. Because we're in a spot right now where we need to get better, we want to get better. Just because I'm gifted something doesn't mean I mean think about athletes that were gifted, right? But they didn't develop their skill, and then there has been, so we're communicators. But what I specifically like is the examples that you gave, whether you are the extreme orator and you're like, oh, I can never be that. Well, most of us, depending on our background, we may be male, female, we may be younger, older, maybe experienced or not experienced, maybe extroverted or introverted. And then you put all those combinations together, that should bring us hope to be ultimately, as you had mentioned, become who you are and develop who you are. So somebody who doesn't have that in their life right now, how how do they learn that? Do they need to find a mentor? Can they can they watch that from other people? Can they read about it? Do they take a class? What's coming maybe their next step in that area?

SPEAKER_00

Oh,

How To Train Your Communication Muscle

SPEAKER_00

they could listen to a podcast with Brian Buckley. Uh, they could read his book. There you go.

SPEAKER_02

You'll shameless promotion from the family.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, like that's not shameless at all. You will find those nuggets are there if you're looking for them. But yes, you can take classes. Uh, there are community classes like Toastmasters who give you an opportunity to stand up and speak. You can take a community college class, you can find a mentor, somebody you think who's a really good communicator. I think some of the best communicators I've heard are pastors, actually, if they're skilled at what they're doing. And in the first five minutes, I think they have a consistent approach to their messages and sermons. They take what is current, what is going on in the life of the people to whom they're speaking, and they touch that area. And as such, then the person listening goes, Oh, it's like they've been looking in my window. They know about me, they know what I need.

SPEAKER_02

But not in a creepy way.

SPEAKER_00

Well, not in a creepy way, but they're paying attention to me. Yeah. Maybe I need to listen to this. I, you know, there's a lot of white noise in this world, and there are so many things we go, I can't listen to that. I can't listen to this. Okay, he's focusing on me. Okay, first five minutes, I'm gonna listen to this. And it's interesting to watch how they will go from a current event and then apply it to something scriptural. I mean, scriptural could be 3,000 years ago, and we go, really? What does that have to do with me? Well, a good speaker will be able to take something current and link it back to that, build a bridge, and there we are.

SPEAKER_02

Back to that analogy. That's a great example on that. And it goes back to what they're doing is kind of pre-read the room where they're taking the five before the five to find the five. They're taking five minutes before the first five minutes to find five, not just useless pieces of data, it's those connection points that you know are critical, that's gonna help them to be able to connect.

SPEAKER_00

And speaking of So let's think we Go ahead. Well, I'm gonna go back to that for a moment. Thinking ahead. Um, I remember when our dad came and spoke at Greenville College, where I was in my undergraduate studies in southern Illinois, and one of the things he said to me was, uh, they've asked me to speak for Chapel. I said, Oh, that's great. Okay, he says, What's going on on campus? What's happening? Uh, who do the students really like? Has something happened recently that was really fun and exciting, or has something taken place that people aren't are still talking about? I knew what he was doing. I thought he was just being curious. Lo and behold, when he got up there on the platform, all of a sudden he called out the name of a professor that the students thought, ah, there was applause, clapping. It let them know he had cared enough to get to know about them. And so when you s go into a setting, it has to be pre-planned, prepared. You got a preview of what's going on before you ever step in there. And that will tell the people you cared enough to find out about them.

SPEAKER_02

Great example. Great example. Let's talk about your book for a minute introductory speech communication, overcoming obstacles, reaching goals.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, and I just happened to have one right here.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, there's a visual of the suspect right there. There you go. Nice. Somehow you knew that was coming. So within that book, if let's say that anybody's listening right now picked it up.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

What's maybe a chapter that would that you say that you wanted to highlight for them immediately going, hey, if there's one thing you want to get from this book or the concept from the book, what would that be?

SPEAKER_00

It would be chapter three, barriers to communication. We're talking about the positive things you can do, but you need to know there are barriers that get in your way. If you've been driving, uh Brian's up in the Chicago area, I'm down here in Nashville. Road construction is a season of the year. There are obstacles everywhere. They're moving things around, they're getting in the way, and that's a problem. Same thing is true in communication. There are obstacles in your way. It can be everything from your own self-concept. I can't do this, I'm gonna mess up, or could be uh semantics, the different wording of things that you may view this as the meaning, somebody else views it as a different meaning. You need to think ahead. What are some barriers that can get in the way so that I have a nice smooth pathway to my particular listener? The other thing I would say would be informative speaking, which is really would fit for anybody in sales, which is figuring out what do they need from me? Uh I know what they need from me, but I could be wrong, you know, or I could be, I just want to sell this, and that doesn't mean that's what they want to buy. So we need to find out what do they need and then how can I meet that need. And that takes longer and it changes focus. And the focus is absolutely critical when it comes to communication. Where as a speaker am I focusing? And it needs to be on my audience or listener and their needs. Those would be the two main chapters I would suggest.

SPEAKER_02

That's excellent. And it just validates everything that you had mentioned before on there and just how important kind of got to think of that one word of awareness, how critical that is. And it's amazing how many people go back to the phrase we use, OQ, observational intelligence. They think they have it and they just don't. So starting at that point of a OQ and having awareness or bringing people in that are gonna help you become aware. And sometimes it may be a sales manager and you don't have a choice. Yeah, I could be other times it's asking somebody.

SPEAKER_00

Or workshop speaker coming in, and you go, I don't have time for this. Yes, you do. You need to make time for this because it is important. But some of those terms, you know, observational awareness, that could be a semantic barrier if somebody doesn't know what you mean, which is why you have to unpack it. You have unpack. That's another phrase of this contemporary world. Yeah, you have to explain it, give an example. And then once somebody gets it, they've got it, and then they can use it and go forward.

SPEAKER_02

And their nonverbal will tell you if they got it or not.

SPEAKER_00

Oh boy, it sure will. Yeah. If they're yawning, looking at their watch. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Exactly. They're there, but they're not there.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, there or they're not there.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So we have a lot of leaders. Okay, no, please go ahead.

SPEAKER_00

I was gonna say another going back to the first five minutes. Oh, circling back. I see what you're doing there. Nice. You like that? A little tie back. Being aware of people's names is so critical. Our names are important to us. And so when you hear somebody's name, repeat it somewhere in the conversation so they know you've got it. Uh, there are a lot of international names. I've taught students from India, and they will say, Oh, just call me Bob. Well, is that your name? No. But it's hard to say my name. Um, Americans have trouble saying my name. Well, let me try. And to make it a little bit more. Oh, that's rich. Oh, yeah. To say their name.

SPEAKER_02

What's that say to them that you've asked the question about the real name?

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. And then as you learn to repeat it, or if I make a mistake, please tell me. I want to be able to say your name the way it should be said. Names are absolutely critical, but it's not easy to remember names. And the older we get, they go out of our head.

SPEAKER_02

So Especially if it's a difficult name, like you said. I mean, sometimes I've done it where I think it's a funny moment because like I jack it up so much and I validate that I'm actually worse at it than the people that the reason to why they go to Bob on that. Yeah, totally. And then I end up just saying, hey, help a brother out. Give me the kudos for trying. How about the nickname? You know, we're not to go to Bob, but can you give me the nickname of, you know, whatever that is with their question of your name.

SPEAKER_00

Just remember for me. Yes. But it creates a moment. They shows we care. And that's there's a lot to be said for that. Yeah. That's a moment in time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Exactly. So

72 Hours To Prep A Talk

SPEAKER_02

we got a lot of leaders that listen to the podcast here. So let's say one of them is due up for a presentation, whether it's their quarterly on how their team's doing, let's say they're in hospitality or customer service, and it's how how they're doing in the in the hotel. If they had 72 hours to do that presentation, what's one or two areas that they should practice the most, maybe that most people skip, or maybe it just seems like it's just too basic?

SPEAKER_00

Now, first thing would be do an audience analysis. I'm asking questions. Who is my audience? Where are they from? What are they needing from me? What are they focused on? Why was I brought here to speak to them? Not just why I was brought here to speak, but to them in particular. Where where does their boss want this to go for them? It's all about them. It's not all about me. That would be the first thing. The second thing would be what is the most important content I can give them? What do they really need? Now, if if I know they need this, but they think I need that, then back to the bridge. How do I bridge what I know they need to what they think they need? How can I make a connection so they know I'm aware of that? And then the third area would be different ways to verbalize, vocalize what I'm saying. And there are some phrases that need to be practiced so that you know when you say it, it's going to come out the way you want. It won't be brushed. Okay? You plan out how you're going to say it. It's supposed to be rushed. Well, then it just gets lost. So if you think it through a few ways to say it, and sometimes you need to write that down on a piece of paper. I'm all about phrases on a large piece of paper. I'm in my 70s. I want to look down at a page and see the words. So I use 16 font. I want to see it. I want to see it right away.

SPEAKER_02

So is that like a key phrase or a quote or something that you want to make sure that you nail and get that?

SPEAKER_00

That's right. Yep. I may highlight it. I may put at the side on the particular sheet, I need to be at this point by this time in the presentation, or I'm not going to get through everything. I mean, those are the kinds of things to think about as you prepare. And then as a speaker, verbalize it. Don't just put it in your head, because when it's in your mind, it sounds different than when it comes out of your mouth.

SPEAKER_02

Very true.

SPEAKER_00

72 hours, walk around the room saying it. If you're running a PowerPoint, have

SPEAKER_02

your computer set up click through it you should never be surprised with the slide that comes up behind you you should always know what's there because then that shows you have control of it once again it shows you respect your audience you respect your audience's time and their attention and so you are prepared for them those would be the I love one of the things you brought up was that the time management of it I should be at this point right here and I think that's where a lot of professionals in general let alone maybe someone's coming in and do a a a really important presentation needs to know I've got to be here at this point. So I think that's absolutely cool. That's a really really good tip. So before we get to rapid fire go ahead.

SPEAKER_00

Well the gifts what what they give you when they give you their time it's one of their most important gifts. So if you abuse it and go overtime or if you go really short they feel like I got gypped or oh my goodness is this ever going to end. So the timing is what's so critical there. So rapid fire go.

SPEAKER_02

No actually before that because they're looking at the clock. So if it's a one hour meeting and you got three points you're on slide three at 30. Oh you're in front of no exactly the tension that's there. So before we get to rapid fire I just want to give you an opportunity just for for advice in the communication space for those that are new in the business world business maybe they've even moved over from going from like retail stores, for example. All of a sudden now they're in the business world or they're in doing fast food restaurant and all of a sudden now they're serving or they move into a hotel and there's a that's completely different. So maybe they don't necessarily have to be younger, but they're maybe newer to that role. That's one. And then the other one is the for the seasoned business professional who thinks maybe they've already got everything figured out. So what's some communication suggestions for those two specific professionals?

SPEAKER_00

For the newbies as they probably view themselves they feel like they don't know what they're doing. And I would just say you probably know more what you're doing than you think you do. Work to get to know the person to whom you're speaking. And you know you're reaching them and making a connection when the conversation gets deeper and deeper. I'm not talking about deep serious issues but if you know if they mention about their kids and then you come back with well how many kids do you have oh ages well I have a 15 year old as well does your child get into this those are the kinds of questions that show you're trying to build that relationship with them that that's an important thing for a newbie that would be one-on-one. If they're up on a stage that brings its own situations with it with the lights are on you and you got a big camera up there it's it's really finding the one or two and make a connection with them. For the ones who have spoken for a long time and think they already have it all together I I go back to one thing dad used to say to me if you ever think you've got it all figured out watch out. You're getting too cocky you're gonna mess up. And I boy I held I just said that the other day in a speech class to my freshman watch out you're gonna trip all over yourself and sure enough because we get too full of ourselves we get lazy we just feel like I'm just gonna go into you know the verbal you know spiel the loop and then all of a sudden realize I've lost my audience and that's not a good thing. So for somebody who's spoken for a long time that can happen easily and you'd be very careful about that. That's probably more dangerous than for the new person standing to speak or meeting somebody one-on-one.

SPEAKER_02

Excellent

Rapid Fire Plus Family Stories

SPEAKER_02

advice before I let you go here we're gonna do this rapid fire here. Okay and then we got two bonus questions going to be the family addition here which you don't know okay so no wrong answers first thing that comes to your mind either one word or one phrase all right okay all right talker or listener be honest talker names danger because I need to be a listener in order to be a good talker.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

That's good caveat very good caveat names naturally good or bad at remembering them naturally good yeah I would agree that more scripted or more spontaneous?

SPEAKER_00

Both I have to be scripted in order to be spontaneous. And you mentioned that earlier if I'm scripted then I can go off script.

SPEAKER_02

If there's no script I'm winging it and no telling what's going to come out of my mouth I've been there kids it gets ugly no I'm just kidding I've last actually I've laughed some of my hardest times in those moments of theirs so questions do they come naturally for you or do you have to be a little bit more intentional to ask them or think of them?

SPEAKER_00

It's both. They come naturally as a matter of fact I enjoy conversations so I like to tie back to questions like to be able to refer back to something that was said I ask questions I encourage them to ask me questions. So it's not just like it's an interview so what do you think about this and then put a microphone through their mouth yeah but it it's naturally intentional.

SPEAKER_02

Well said and our mom's the best example of that. Yes of listening in circling back and making sure that the phrase I use locked in listening she was a poster child there. There you go eye contact natural or something you have to think about?

SPEAKER_00

It's natural until I start to think about it. Because when I start to think about it then I'm aware how long I've been looking at that person.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah well it's like then it gets creepy.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah then it gets creepy that's exactly right. So to look at them or look at the earlobe or just you know that that will work. But if they feel like you are just zoning and lasering in on them that can get uncomfortable. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

But most people are the extreme of that I'm like you realize that I'm like three feet over here not like way over there. It's just it's amazing.

SPEAKER_00

Anyway nervous communication causes people to look away they look away because they don't want to engage they're they're trying to build some distance yeah interesting so the nervousness is there that's good look at this she's just giving you give here even on rapid fire dropping those little nuggets all over I know I know no additional charge right there put it on the BuckFan tab. Biggest communication pee what drives you crazy um um uh yeah it's just like you know it's almost like a verbal burp you know when it comes out and it's not intentional it's a habit which is why if you want to eradicate them from your speaking whether it's professional or on stage or in sales you've got to get them out of the daily conversation because when you just sound yeah the more stress you have the more likely they are to come out and if it comes out once it'll come out again and again and again so get them out completely.

SPEAKER_02

That's good.

SPEAKER_00

What's your superpower in a conversation tie backs I can remember what was said to it so that they know I have been engaged the whole time.

SPEAKER_02

And to the listener you've been the best model of that and something that I'm learning to do a lot more in people don't notice it but they really really do appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00

Yes they do as a matter of fact and you're right earlier you had mentioned about if there was a humorous moment to go back to that and lets them once again relax laugh and then the conversation relive it gets and the conversation can be easier and more conversational. Yeah and oftentimes it picks up speed. It does yes yeah because humor will do that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah gains momentum or I even so some sometimes too where somebody's a little bit quieter that didn't make a comment the first time it was funny. They make a comment and then it makes it even richer because they're like I did not expect that to come from Jason. Like that was awesome.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah where that goes for being part of this now we build a community yes well said community on that best communicator you've ever personally witnessed I just saw it two weeks ago at church when our pastor got up and um started out with a marvelous introduction we have two pastors at our church and this is the one who speaks from the heart the other pastor speaks from the head and yet somehow works well very much so but as he shared his heart and you could hear it in his voice he had control but you could hear it there that you want to go yeah I that's that's the kind of speaker I want to be that's a great example and current right now.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah finish the sentence the moment someone loses a room it's almost always because they lost focus of the audience that's good lost focus in the audience.

SPEAKER_00

All right fam edition closing two questions here communication style of the Buckley family raucous loud happy exciting I remember at a birthday party when we were all so loud and Brian's two oldest sons had a birthday and we were so busy and having so much fun that all of a sudden they started to cry because we scared them never forget that.

SPEAKER_02

Yep to their defense it was only a year ago just kidding plus and another example of ruckus since we're off on a tangent here how many times at the dinner table dad would say something was slightly inappropriate and then you added to it then Bruce added to it I added to it and if there was a guest sitting next to mom remember what she would do she would apologize.

SPEAKER_00

Yes I never taught them to do that. I taught them not to do that exactly she was the classy one in the crowd. Yeah she was she was and then we just went off laughing even harder. Laughter was an important part of the Buckley family. That is one of the things that tied us all together. We enjoyed life and we enjoyed going back and remembering previous times. Yeah and just tie back the tie back.

SPEAKER_02

Yep the tie back always yeah yep yeah and I think it made other people feel more comfortable as well when they came into that they were just like wow that was uh that was besides that was a lot they uh they just really enjoyed where that went so these people are crazy so I might as well be crazy too yeah communication attribute you admire in someone in our family oh each member of the family has their own attribute okay give one word then just give one word for each one dogs excluded oh dogs oh darn connection every communication between siblings and parents was always meant to reach and continue the communication amongst us not to push us away not to hurt not to demean always to build connection love that and I love to all these years later and dec decades later the communication side was yours and in my my pursuit on the connection side so it's kind of neat to see our families influenced there. So that's right.

SPEAKER_00

And a last question communication area you're still better at than me I speak more slowly than Brian Brian goes 90 miles that yeah isn't that amazing but I can speak quickly but I will pause and Brian doesn't pause until he's gotten every word out of his mouth and out of his brain and then he's run out of oxygen. That's how we're markedly different when it comes to communication again. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Again completely true and a 100% of growth area so that's awesome. Thank you for that and received any closing thoughts or a point you just want to leave us with today?

SPEAKER_00

I would say that it's important to know that anybody who wants to learn to speak better can. It's not something that is unattainable. And so if that's a desire you have work on it. Go for it. Find a mentor find a class find an opportunity to speak if it's the one thing that causes you the greatest fear then it's the one thing you need to do over and over and over because that's the only way to diminish that fear. Great ending.

SPEAKER_02

Well thanks to the most honorable Dr. Brenda Buckley Hughes my favorite and only sister for allowing me to interview you today. So well there you have it the Dr. Brenda Buckley Hughes and we're thrilled to have you thank you.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you very much for the opportunity. Take care.

SPEAKER_02

Now

Final Advice And The Listener Challenge

SPEAKER_02

is that not both enlightening and fun and of course at no additional charge I'd like to thank Dr. Brenda Buckley Hughes for her time today and you get all of her insights the quotes that she mentioned and all the takeaways in the episode Chi Chi Resource which you can find in the show notes. So here's the challenge take this action item that elite business professionals do they're more just listening checking a box and hoping that they remember something that they heard. Download the resource today and apply this free education you received from a college professor. And while episode 32 is officially in the books in and out and neither myself or my sister got hurt this time. And as my Chicago Bears chant good, better best nothing but the best until your good gets better and your better gets best. And as our dad used to say thanks for coming but most of all thanks for leaving. I'm out you got this now is your time to do something with this episode. And always remember to leverage your first five minutes to build connection trust and influence you got this

Head Shot

Bryan Buckley

Host