Stop Waffling & Start Selling

Last-Resort Hypnotherapy: Why Change Doesn’t Need 20 Years With Guest Paul Wilson

• Sandra Ten Hoope

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In this episode of Stop Waffling, Start Selling, Sandra is joined by hypnotherapist and behavioural change specialist Paul Wilson to unpack why so many people feel stuck and what actually creates change.

Paul shares his approach to helping people break patterns quickly by reconnecting with their own internal resources, rather than relying on long-term coping strategies. Sandra brings a personal lens, sharing how his direct, honest style helped her navigate burnout, relationship challenges, and a period of intense overwhelm.

Together, they explore:

  •  Why “stuck” is often disconnection 
  •  How fear of change keeps people in the wrong situations 
  •  The pressure of “keeping up” and its hidden cost 
  •  Why managing problems isn’t the same as solving them 
  •  The role organisations play in burnout and avoidance of real change 
  •  What it means to find “the intersection” between needs, roles, and reality 

This is a straight-talking conversation about choice, responsibility, and creating change that actually lasts.

About Paul Wilson
Paul helps professionals eliminate patterns that cost them time, energy, and money by addressing the root cause, not just the symptoms.

Connect with Paul:

Sandra ten Hoope is a Sales & Story Strategist and corporate attorney, known for bringing clarity to complex situations in both boardrooms and business.

Drawing from her own experiences, she now empowers professional women to rewrite their personal narratives. In Do Not Try HIM at Home, Sandra reveals the duality of her life, closing multi-million-pound deals while living in fear at home.

This podcast is for entrepreneurs who want to stop circling, trust their voice, and build a business that sells through clarity, not pressure.

Alongside the podcast, Sandra offers the Stop Waffling & Start Selling Membership, helping entrepreneurs move through:

Clarity → Connection → Conversion

Members receive bonus episodes, tools, and guidance to turn insight into action.Sandra also offers Revenue Clarity Sessions, focused one-hour conversations to identify what’s impacting your revenue and what to do next.

If you enjoy the conversations shared here, you’ll find extended discussions and additional insights inside the membership  HERE

Welcome to Stop waffling. Start selling the weekly podcast in which we dive deep into the world of persuasive storytelling, effective sales techniques and practical strategies to help you grow your business.
So welcome to this episode of Stuff, waffling, start selling, and we have another distinguished guest today, Paul. Distinguished, distinguished Yes, and we shall. We shall shortly find out why Paul and I met in the online space years ago, and Paul has been holding my hand. And as I was explaining to the podcast, I was Dawn II this morning, I said, there's lovely and there is tough, lovely, which is you, Paul, who was holding my hand in a very difficult stage of my life where my relationship had broken down, was in the middle of a the house being rebuilt whilst my life was being rebuilt, my ex and I ended up In a sort of situationship that I was very confused about. And then Paul
lovely, lovely set me straight,
gave me a perspective that I was either too fooky to face because, you know, as life goes, other than the breakup in the house rebuilt and dealing with the herd of my son, I was also going through perimenopause, so rather, fooky brain, Paul shed a very bright light, made me see sense, and there was a situationship No more, and I could start rebuilding my life. And obviously I am not the only person that Paul has been definitely loving me. So Paul, tell us more about you and your business.
Okay, so that is a really interesting question, because, in a nutshell, I am a hypnotherapist, and I also coach, train, teach and mentor other hypnotherapist, but that is just a title, because I spend a lot of time helping people, and throughout my entire life. In fact, I was with a client this morning, and we were talking about, you know, our lives and stuff, and I said that throughout my life, I've always, in one shape or form, helped people, whether it's been like on a one to one base with you, Sandra, or whether it's been working as an emergency preparedness manager, or going way, way, way back to my youth, but I was working on a campsite as a rep, helping people have great holidays. So that's always been part of my ethos, and I just love it. I really get a buzz out of not so much helping people, but getting them to see the transition, seeing that there is light at the end of the tunnel, they can find a way out, that they're not stuck, they're not broken, they're not unfixable. All that stuff is, you know, we can just put it away and find a solution.
Yeah, well, obviously, you know, we went through that process, and
what I can really sense is that you love it when whatever you bring to the table in whatever shape or form, because you have numerous ways of really making people feel unstuck, that you make them help themselves. And you find such joy in that, because you, like I said, it's a bit of tough love. So you paint the picture, but you leave space for the person to find the best way of movement to that light. And you find tremendous joy in that. That's what I really got from from us working together. Yeah, I think
thank you for that. Sandra. I think that the biggest issue is that with say, sports coaching, you teach a person how to run, you know, the way you put your hands, how far your steps should be, what to eat, when to eat, when to exercise, all that kind of good stuff, but with what I do is not make suggestions, is to help the client find their own solution. Because if I try and stamp a solution onto the client, one of two things might happen. The client might just reject that suggestion completely, and we kind of put a wall between us, or worse, the suggestion might work, but it might only work for a week, a day, a month or a year, and it's not permanent. But when I help the suggestion that the client find their own solutions, because I firmly believe that we have an infinite. Amount of personal resources available to us that we've just become detached from, and when you can reattach, or when you can help a client reattach, reconnect with those resources, then the solution is there.
Yeah, that's that's what I got. I was stuck in a certain way. And I think that when people come to you and they say that they're stuck. I sense and what you always bring brought to me, and the thing which you do to your other clients as well. You're not saying as much stuck, but that you are disconnected, and that there are a number of ways for you to connect with with you know, whatever resources we have in ourselves, whether it's resilience, whether it's trusting the gut,
listening truly to our heart,
going layers under the ego that we're all sort of gotten so attached to, especially, you know, where I come from, the corporate world, it's all very ego driven. It's all very status driven, and like I'm noticing now as I'm stepping away from the final corporate project, and I sort of tell them some of the ventures that I'm about to embark on, they're like, in shock. They're like, Yeah, but what? What about your education? What about your experience? And what about, well, what about if none of this gives me any joy anymore? What if we go, you know, bit towards soul level? What sparks you up? Because, you know, I've always worked in sort of the Amsterdam equivalent of the London City, and it's all very status driven. You can tell in every organization there's always a vice vice president. You're vice president. There's all sorts of titles and roles that people you know deem themselves safe in, until they are close to a burnout, until they face physical problems, until a lot of things, and then in the current economy again, and I think also driven by AI, you see that a lot of people who deem themselves safe within the corporate brain driven environment can now easily see themselves replaced. And there's a lot of uncertainty. And still the idea that you could get out of that uncertainty by going inward and choosing another path. It's almost, you know, with the experiment of the of the cocaine fed rats, the door is open, but they still deem themselves stuck. So could you, you know, obviously every client is different, and you have a number of skills and a lot of experience in number of fields to help them through the process. But could you talk us through
basically, the intake when someone comes to you and says, I'm stuck?
Okay, first of all, I want to kind of go over what you were saying there. Sandra, if you go back to the 1950s in the United States, it's post war, there's lots of unemployment, there's lots of disconcert about concern and worry and stress, because people have come out and it's a brand new world. And to get the economy again, they needed people to buy stuff, so they created this phrase called Keeping Up with the Joneses, which meant that if Mr. Jones bought a new car, you had to buy a new car. If Mr. Jones bought a loan mower, you had to buy a loan mower. If they got a brand new kitchen, and so on and so on and so on. So now the best part of what 7576 years, the society has bought into this belief that you have to keep up with the Joneses. You have to have the best of everything. You've got to have the best salary. You've got to do the work. You've got to do this. You've got to do that. Go to the other and woe betide you if you step out of that accepted pattern, if you go kind of off grid, as it were. And so what's happened? And this leads into my answer to your question, is that we've forgotten how to give ourselves permission. We've forgotten to give ourselves permission. Say, You know what, I don't want this corporate job anymore. I want to go and be a lifeguard. I want to go and collect fossils, or I want to learn about archeology, or I want to go and paint, yeah, and we get stuck. People get stuck in this situation, and they they get in more debt. They're getting more pressure. They get they get a big house. They get a bigger house. They have the 2.2 kids. They have the the trophy husband, the trophy wife, and so on and so forth. And then one day, they wake up and they realize that they've put themselves in a prison without bars. There's no jailer, there's no keys, there's no locks, but people have got themselves in a prison. And they can't see a way out of it. And what happens is people get to a stage where they get so sick of being in the place they're in, something inside them says, You know what, Paul, this has to stop it. Stop right now. How do we fix it? And then you go from kind of like, you know, problem unaware, to problem where you go through that phase until you get to stage where you're ready to talk to someone, you're ready to find a solution. And one of the one of the phrases that gets repeated so often with me is, Paul, you're my last resort. I've tried everything else, and finally, I've come to you. Now I wouldn't like it to be the last resort. I prefer people to find me first of all, people say them a lot of stress and anguish and worry. So people have gone to talk therapy, they've tried maybe CBT, they've maybe gone to lots of different things. They've tried lots of different things, and none of it has worked. Because I firmly believe that you have to be mentally in the right place at the right time for things to work, and the solution to your problem has to come from inside, because, as I mentioned earlier, Sandra, if you try and bolt on the solution, it's only a temporary fix. It's only like is putting a band aid over a cup, and that doesn't really work. So people come to me and I say to people, look, you're not going to like working with me, because I will tell you the hard truth, not to be unpleasant, not to be nasty. Because a lot of coaches, a lot of therapists, a lot of people that want to help you, their goal is to become your friend, is to become pals and all this. Well, no, that's not my gig. My gig is to help you get a solution to whatever your problem is, and if that means pushing you to a place where you're not comfortable, then I'll do that, because I will do whatever is necessary to help my client get sorted as quickly as possible. And I'm going on a bit here, but let me relate this story I went to when I first got into this business. I went to a networking meeting with some psychotherapists, and I'm a hypnotherapy anyway. So they were talking psychotherapy and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then one lady went, what do you guys do about succession planning? And I'm thinking succession planning, what you're talking about.
And I went, excuse me, what do you mean? Well, you know, you don't have clients for that long. I mean, if you passed away, had an accident, surely they'd just go and find somebody else. Then she went, No, no, no, no. I've had some clients for 18 years, so I need to know who I can hand that person off to if I pass away, then another lady chimed in, and then I've had clients for 20 years. And I mean, Jesus Christ, you know, you're seeing the same person every week, 4850 weeks of the year for 20 years. I don't care what kind of problem that person's got, there's no way should take that long to help somebody get over a hurdle, no matter how bad the trauma is, no matter no way. So my goal, and it persists to be my goal, is that I help you as fast as I possibly can. Now, whether that's one session, fabulous, if it takes five or six or seven, great. But the idea is, as quickly as possible, I don't sell packages. I sell solutions.
Yes, you do indeed, because we didn't work together for long, but it was very effective because you dare to show me that mirror, and you dare to show me, you dare to bring my emotions to the surface and name them for a number of reasons. I was not daring to, or able to, or wanting to, but you just pointed it out. It wasn't like this, and this person should leave your life because he is or whatever it was a if this and this person is in your life, this is what you are experiencing, and this is what you are portraying to the world. This is what you are showing me Now Sandra. And I think there was a different Sandra out well, in there, not rather out there, in there, that the world needs to see, that you need to trust. And that's what we did. And it went it went fast, and it was furious. And I knew that I you know, we had gotten to know each other before we started to work together, but I knew enough about how you work, and that is what I needed. I I'm glad that I dare to at least admit to myself that I needed someone who was not going to hold my hand for three years or drag all sorts of things from whatever passed in that current situation, because there was something in the current situation that was holding me back, and that makes them I might have been comfortable in the situation because, but that was not what. Was dealing with. So indeed, the idea of having to be with a coach or a therapist or whatever for 20 years, why haven't they solved it yet? Why haven't they been able to let that client walk towards whatever light the client needs? It's like, and it's almost people would end up maybe at a psychotherapist through trauma, which is a very vulnerable position, and for that psychotherapist to then bank on that for 20 years to basically make them addictive to whatever they're doing together, that
mind boggling. Yeah, I think one of the issues, and again, I've talked to my client about this this morning, is that when you go and see a talk therapist, you go for an hour, and at the end of that hour, you might be getting really close to something, but then the therapist goes, I'm really sorry, Paul, it's 11 o'clock. Got new client coming in See you next week. And so you walk out knowing that you're on the cusp of something, but not know what that was. And also you've opened a can of worms, which may have also opened three or four or five other kinds of worms. And then you go to the session the following week, and you spend at least half that session talking about the previous session. You don't get any real progress, which is why it takes so long I the way I work is I don't need to know what your problem is. I just need to know that, you know, you've got a problem, and then we can figure it out, I think. And you know, a lot of people aren't going to like what I'm about to say, but I think a lot of therapy is voyeurism, because they have to take people through, okay, tell me exactly what happened. How bad was it? How did you suffer? And I really don't understand that, because I know with aversion therapy, you put the spider on the hand so people get used to the problem. But when you're talking about traumatic events, not even major ones, they still cause discomfort. They still cause pain, which is why the person came to you in the first place to get rid of that discomfort, to get rid of that pain. So why take them through it again? It's to me, it's ridiculous. Now I know Jung Ian and Freudian psychotherapist is going to say, No, Paul, there's a specific reason why I just don't see it. I get great results for clients in hours, not months or years. That's what I stand by, basically.
Yeah, true, and you your agenda, there is a starting point of that session, but it was never like, Oh, I was up see you in three weeks, because last year in in my final corporate project that in hindsight, I should not have done, but I thought it was in the same organization, same kind of job, but yet different. And I pulled myself out of a burnout just one minute to 12, and then I was sent to psychologist, and they suggested in the arm, because I was honest about things in my past, like relationship traumas, etc. And then they suggested EMDR, and they suggested 20 sessions. And I was like, Excuse me, EMDR is supposed to be swift, but obviously, you know, you had it all had to do with the fact that the bank that I was working for needed to prove duty of care. But I, you know, said We ain't going to do 20 sessions. This is going to end in December, and I did ultimately one EMDR about not a trauma related experience, but still, you know, and then this, hopefully, nice fella is making me do the light thing. I'm thinking from the questionnaires, you know, you're dealing with someone with multiple trauma, if you think that my survival instinct, and I'm pulling up this now, is going to respond to your little beep, beep. You don't know what you're doing. You know it is I was well prepared. I know I had to go through it, and I could protect myself with a lot of knowledge and work that I've done, yeah, also with you in the past. But if, if you don't, then you're stuck, you're going to be more stuck. They're not going to unstuck you from from your burnout symptoms. They're going to stop you more in and it's going to take a long time.
Great, but again, we I'm not sure why people want it to take so long, whether it's a revenue thing, and I mean, one of my biggest problems in business is that I'm one and done. People come to me with a problem. We sort the problem. They're gone. People don't come to me. I mean, it would be great if people came to me for 20 years once a week, because I wouldn't have to keep looking for clients to keep marketing. But that's the nature of what I do. People come to me. We get it sorted. So there is a churn. Yeah, and I think one of the one of the issues is that for a lot of therapists, seeing people on a regular basis for 10 weeks, 20 weeks, 30 weeks, gives them a kind of certainty over income, because EMDR is even, like you said, someone for EMDR is supposed to be a rapid solution, you know, three or four sessions, Max. So to book somebody for 20 sessions is ridiculous, because what are you going to do for those 20 sessions?
Mad, yeah. And then obviously, you know, having been through certain therapy, haven't worked with you. I have this knowledge. And I really, I really feel for people who don't and honestly, also think that if you are sent to psychotherapists because, you know, the company doctor sort of attached to the company that puts you in a burnout, sent you to, I don't think it's going to be very helpful. And what it also still does it just focuses on you. Because when I started to talk about when I started to work again, if only for a couple of hours a week, and things that were going on at the bank at that point, he says, yeah, no, no, let's go back to I said, No, I'm here because of everything that's going on in the bank. I'm sitting here. But in reality, other people should be sitting here. People causing a lot of unrest, should be sitting here. I'm sitting here because of the behavior of others. I was sent here because of that. So honestly, you know, and then, yeah, but about you and your past? And I said no, because a lot of my past never was any problem in other working environments. Something triggered here, and it's a toxicity of the environment here that triggered me so but that's not addressed. It's all very made the person's problem, so to speak, anything else cannot be addressed.
Yeah, and that's part of the problem with any kind of one to one therapy that if it is specifically related to a current scenario, there's not a lot of that you can do to help that person, because all we can all we as individuals can control, is our own thoughts, our own behaviors and how We respond to events. And if you've got an issue with the way an enterprise, the way not an organization, is working, there's only so much you can do, because you can say, Okay, right? I'm going to put a wall in front and I'm going to do my best to ignore all the negativity. But that's exhausting. It uses a lot of energy, and it's not a great environment to be in. So the company, the bank, you said, you know, they wanted to show duty of care. Well, a better duty of care would have been to get you in a meeting say, okay, Sandra, what exactly is going on? What? What is really not working here? Okay, well, I've got an issue with working with Paul and Michelle and David and this procedure. If we can solve that, my life might be better. So we get those four people, including yourself, into a meeting and the procedure, okay, let's rash this out. Is anybody else having a problem with this? And work it out. So no blame. We're not blaming Paul, Michelle and whoever else. Yeah, we're saying, look, there's an issue here. Sandra's not happy. It's making real. How do we fix it? Not how do we fix Sandra? Because I was not broken. It's a process. It's not working
that we miss. And I've tried for six months to address sort of the largest system that wasn't working and how it affected people around me and how it's ultimately affected myself. But there was no opening for real discussion. There was no progress being made. And then I pulled myself out of it just in time, because I thought I've, you know, for 55 years, I've managed to, you know, stay afloat, and you never know when the tipping point might come. So I pulled away, and obviously, we're almost a year on. I've now stepped away from the bank,
and it will not change. All I can do is carve out
a brighter future when it comes to the
combination of doing what you like and making at least an amount of money on it.
It's interesting because I was watching an old episode of, er, you know, with George Clooney and and this surgeon had made a mistake which had caused almost the death of a patient. And so she went in front of the review board and said, Look, yes, I made a mistake. It was because of X, Y and Z, and the fact that work 36 hours without a break. So we need to bring this out of the open and find a solution. All of her senior colleagues rejected this because that's how we've always done it. If we got through it, then you can get doing they didn't want to broadcast this person's mistake, because it was the accepted way of doing things, and that's the biggest issue. That we have in life is that so much is the accepted way of doing things that, especially in institutions, that we find it very difficult to break out of that mold, unless we can make money with it. Of course, we find people to break out of that mold and to say, okay, yeah, I agree. We do have a situation. We do need to look at finding solutions, and that's the issue. It's not the individual sending them to therapy, although that can help. It's figuring out again, the root cause, what's really causing all these people to burn out? Are we asking too much of them? Are they bored? Do we need to spice up their business work? You know what we need to do? What is the solution?
Yeah, indeed, there is way too little focus on on the solution, because a solution might, might have to, you know, they might have to make decisions to get to a certain solution that they're unwilling to make, that they really can't grasp. Sometimes there is really a total loss in translation, that they would have a way that they can change by decisions that they're making. The situation for people,
but largely it's we do know. We don't care.
I think the biggest problem Sandra is the C word change. People and institutions do not like change. They do not like to change because you think about it from a certain perspective, change is moving into the unknown. It's moving into the scary part. What happens if we change this? What happens if we get people to do that? What happens if we remove the other so it puts things up into the air? Change is uncomfortable, which means moving out of the known and the comfortable into the unknown and potentially uncomfortable. And that happens both at a personal level with clients that I see, and also institutions as well. This has always been the way. This is always going to be the way we don't need to change, because it's worked up until now, allegedly, Yeah,
indeed, allegedly, at a cost
that they are not seeing or not daring to admit because I might be naive, but I've always been of the impression that if you treat people well, if they feel aligned with what they're doing, with who they are, that it will benefit the corporation. But that's I think, that even 100 years on most just what a man, it's like Ford did, is in his fabric, you know, it has to be measurable, it has to be controllable, it has to be manageable and not withstanding. A lot of we do it more organically, or we do it more holistically. And when push comes to the shelf, the persons who are getting pushed and shocked are those on a rather lower level than top management who could decide otherwise.
The issue is that I've got to disagree with you a little bit here, Sandra, is that if we go for what's best for everybody, some organizations would just crumble. Because, in a sense, you can't say you employ 5000 people. You cannot have 5000 different ways of working. You can do your best with flexible working and all that kind of stuff. Change what your flexible hours, etc. You know, paternity leave, all kinds of benefits. But when it comes to getting the job done, there is still the job to be done. Now, having said that, from my perspective, the solution is to sit people around the table say, okay, look, we can't have 5000 ways of doing this, and what we can do is have 5000 ideas of how we can improve it for everybody. So yes, you may still have to do stuff you disagree with or they don't enjoy. But how do we minimize that and help people, you know, get through the day without being burnt out? So I think that's a more sensible approach. If we try and go for everybody's well being well. Paul might say, You know what, guys, I don't want to come into work today. I just want to sit by the pool sitting pina coladas and have a massage for six hours. Somebody else might come and go. You know what? No, I'm really focused. I want to work 12 hours straight, because that's my gig. I love it. I get motivated by big, hairy challenges. That's what I want to do. Now. That's obviously two extremes. We get those extremes in organization. So I can't give this person what she wants. I don't give this person what he wants. I've got to find a happy medium. And the trouble is that finding that happy medium is difficult, because not only we talk about the organization, but we talk about individuals. The individual that wants, the only one who works two hours a day only wants to work towards it. Don't hear anything else. The person want to work 12. Hours a day and really, really driven. Just want to hear about only working six hours a day, and that's the issue, because people forget that organizations are run by people. Organizations employ people, but other also run by people, and everybody's got different levels of expectation, different levels of what they want, what they're happy with, and so on and so forth. We need to find a way to be able to mediate for as as much of that as possible. You know, the old kind of charts, we get a circle here, the circle here, and a circle at the bottom. There's a kind of a cross section in the middle where all three circles meet. We need to spend more time looking at the that center section and getting more stuff in that intersection where the three circles meet and that's what's missing? Yeah, no, I fully agree.
You can't cater to everybody's exact wishes. It's the same in any situation. You could be in a relationship, in a family, in a friendship, it's it always takes, like you said, a sort of happy medium. What I see now is that they're not trying to find the intersection, and that leaves a lot of people feeling lost, because nobody can expect any situation, any corporation, any relationship, anything that's going on in your life, to meet everything you need at any given time, but that there is a total disregard for people wanting to feel at least a part of their experience of their preferred way of working, or whatever it is, met in that intersection, I see that missing so much from too many, too many enterprises,
absolutely right? That's the thing that needs to be looked at. That's the thing that needs to be changed, not just putting things in place because you have to, or it meets the corporate image, or you're kind of just pandering to something because you have to, it's got to come from the right place, because if it doesn't come from the right place, there's no point in doing it. There's really no point in making any change unless you know what. I'm determined to make this a better place to work, and I want this to be a better place to work for as many people as possible. And when you've got to kind of start way, way back even at the recruitment stage, before you even kind of, you know, bring somebody into an interview, is this person going to be a good fit for the way we work? Are they going to want to work 12 hour days, or are they going to want to work the minimum amount possible, and then kind of only bring in the people that are going to fit into the way you've currently, you're currently working. If you're a company that is very, very driven, and you want people to work 810, 12 hours a day, and they're happy doing that, there's no point in bringing people in that want to leave at five o'clock. So there's a clock that's fine. There's no point because you're already you're creating conflicts before they've even joined the company. Conversely, if you're a kind of like Microsoft organization, where you've got lots of soft toys and play areas and cool things, and people can come and go and work and say, Please, there's no point in bringing somebody into that organization that works 12 hour days head down, because they're going to be a bad fit. You've got to bring people in right at the start. They're going to be a good fit for your organization. Now that doesn't mean to say you don't still look to make changes for everybody, but bring the right people in, not just because they've got the right qualifications, but also because they're going to be a good fit. And I spend a lot of time on LinkedIn, and I read a lot of posts where people say, you know, I'm a founder, this is what we've done. I've got 20 people, and they all, they're all a good fit for the way I work and the way I want this business, and that's the way to do it.
I fully agree, before I take you over to the bonus part of the podcast, and I see already so many things that we could talk about there, and I would love to chat more about intersection, but not as much within teams, but within the various desires that a person has, and that when there is a clash, could give them that Feeling of stuck. But basically, I think it's not really joining the dots. I think there was something in the intersection and also the fitting, maybe in a personal life and on your own business. Before we go there, where can people find you?
Okay, I'm all over the place, mainly YouTube, Facebook, Instagram and some of the others, but look for Paul Wilson hypnotherapist, Paul Wilson coaching. And I'm assuming that this will have links and stuff, and I'll give you some links, and I have a freebie, not even a sign of required. It's an. Need me. I've created a web app which is a mindset coach. And you go to this app, you put in your problem, and it will give you help, advice, guidance into getting your solution sorted. And I've been told from people that are using it that it's like talking to me. That's how I designed it. So this is and again, please, this is different from the free chat GPT account, because this is chat GPT, very generic. It will give you off the cuff stuff. I've trained this to be me, and so you're welcome to use it completely free of charge, not going to sign up, required, just so you get an idea of what it's like working with me,
that's perfect. We will drop that link in the show notes. Thank you again all, and we will see in the bonus part. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. Stop waffling, start selling. I hope you enjoyed it. I hope it helped you on your business journey. And if you liked this episode or the podcast in general, do share the link and for further information. Non stop offering, start selling. Have a look in the show notes. See you again next week. You you.