Episode 41: Michelle Leblond: The Strategic Mind Behind Background Screening Excellence

Imagine a professional who lives and breathes accuracy, thrives under the weight of compliance, and leads teams through constant industry evolution—then drop her into the challenging arena of public records and high-stakes client expectations. That’s Michelle Leblond, a master at turning complexity into clarity.

In this episode, Michelle takes us inside her journey from curious newcomer to trusted industry voice, sharing insights on evolving regulations, client relationships, and building teams that thrive under pressure. Her perspective will make you see background screening not as a behind-the-scenes process, but as a mission-critical force for trust and safety.

Pro Conversation You don’t want to miss!

• The Early Path and First Steps
• Operational Excellence and Compliance Challenges
• Industry Engagement and Leadership
• Reflections, Advice, and the Road Ahead

Michelle Leblond’s story is a powerful reminder that success in background screening isn’t just about keeping up—it’s about setting the pace. From mastering compliance to leading through complexity, her approach proves that precision, adaptability, and vision are the keys to thriving in this industry. Whether you’re a seasoned veteran or just starting your journey, Michelle’s insights offer both inspiration and a practical blueprint for growth.

If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to rate, follow, and review Behind the Screens on your favorite podcast platform. Your feedback helps us bring more incredible stories and industry wisdom to professionals like you. And of course—share this episode with a colleague who could use a dose of Michelle’s expertise.

Connect with US:

• Les Rosen- https://www.linkedin.com/in/lesterrosen/
• Subscribe to our YouTube Channel- https://www.youtube.com/@BehindtheSCreens200

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Have fun, right? I don't wanna be so Debbie Downer to say you life is short, shorter than we think. You never know, but it's it's all work. Um it's not more important than anything else. It's not more important than life, so have have fun while you're doing it and and find your people.

SPEAKER_03 0:23

Welcome to Behind the Screens Conversations with Background Screening Pros. I'm Les Rosen, your host, and I'm excited to have you here. On this podcast, we chat with the people who know the background screening world inside and out. Executives, industry experts, legal pros, and more. We dive into their personal stories and insights to give you a real look at what's happening behind the scenes. Whether you work in the screening industry or are just curious, behind the screens bring you the real unfiltered conversations from the people who make it all happen. Stick around for stories you won't hear anywhere else. And ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another um action-packed episode of your favorite podcast, or at least my favorite podcast, uh Behind the Screens Conversations with Background Screening Fros. And today we have a very special guest, a guest that might be known to you as a former chair of PBSA, an ops girl at heart, uh now director of operations at PBSA. I know her as a person who really does not hesitate to say what's on her mind, and a person who just gets stuff done. Um, sort of the Nike person, just do it. And she does a lot. And my pleasure to introduce, and this may come as a surprise to our guest, a fellow Canadian, Michelle LeBlanc. Michelle, welcome.

SPEAKER_02 1:51

Hello. Yes, not a surprise. I knew that. There's a few of you out there. All right, all right.

SPEAKER_03 1:57

Yeah, I actually um I'll talk about that later. I actually am Canadian. Um I mean I was born in the U.S., but I'm I'm actually technically under Canadian law. I'm a a co-Canadian as well. I just uh I never bothered to get my Canadian passport. I probably should have, but uh but welcome to the program. It's great to talk to you.

SPEAKER_02 2:16

Great, great to be here. It's been fun watching all the other episodes. So hopefully I'll I'll do you proud and have some good answers and we'll see how it goes.

SPEAKER_03 2:25

Well, it'll be it'll be fun. People will enjoy this. So let's let's get the ball rolling by uh uh having you uh tell us uh what you currently do, your current position, what you do, what you find most interesting about it, what why you like it. Uh it's all the floor is yours. Sure.

SPEAKER_02 2:43

So um, as you said in the intro, I am director of operations with PBSA directly. So um basically what that entails is keeping all the trains on the tracks. Um, you know, I have oversight for our membership, marketing, communications, and accreditation programs. Um, I'm directly responsible for most of our global councils. We do have someone in Europe that assists with that one. Um but really kind of the girl behind the scenes, helping to make our volunteers and our board members look good, um, doing whatever Melissa Sorensen throws my way, um, really just kind of making sure PBSA is delivering to members what they need, what they want, sometimes what they don't know they need or they don't know they want. But it's been almost two years, and it's it's been wonderful. It's it's been a great move. I'm happy. And I get to work with all the members that I I knew before.

SPEAKER_03 3:40

Oh, that's fantastic. And and we're gonna we're gonna circle back to PBSA and that uh that that laundry list of things you do. I'm I'm I'm just you know exhausted hearing it, and you did and you get to do it all. And for the listeners who may not be totally aware that Melissa Horrison is the executive director. So you work uh alongside with her, or I don't know what the org chart says. So she's uh uh what a what a great team, what a dynamic duo. That's fantastic. What was your journey like to get to where you are today? What uh you know where'd you start out and how did it all come about?

SPEAKER_02 4:14

You know, my other half tends to still call this my first job. Um, and at times I've had first job syndrome. Um I've been doing background screening near on 30 years. It's what I started doing right out of school. When I was in university, I worked at an Italian restaurant, downtown trial, and met someone there that was a director at a company that did forensic accounting. So that organization um invariably would go in after there had been an incident. So somebody had embezzled money, fraudulent records, they did the accounting, and what they were starting to see was that these were not one-trick ponies. In a lot of cases, these individuals had committed these crimes before, but nobody had bothered to check them. So the way in that company screening company that I started with was called IFR employee screening. And it really just started because a forensic accounting firm knew this this was happening. So instead of being reactive, they created kind of a division of the company that would allow organizations to be proactive. So that organization was, I mean, it was the heyday. It was you know the start of my career. So of course everything was bright and shiny and a new experience. Um but that forensic accounting firm did some, and I can't swear, right? I shouldn't swear. Probably not.

SPEAKER_03 5:39

Well, you can swear by it, but not swear at it. Yeah, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 5:43

They did some really cool beep. Um they, you know, they did a the valuation for the Cruise Kidman, so Tom Cruise, Nicole Kidman divorce. There were some Dr. Dre infringement, copyright infringement cases that they were part of, so they would valuate what you know what that cost him. It was like it was just really cool stuff. So we were just this podunk little group of, I mean, when I started maybe eight or ten people that did background streaming, but it was a time when you know you could just be a national player. So for us, that was Cross Canada. It wasn't a commoditized market, it was super easy to sell. Um, we grew to the quickest, you know, largest company in Canada very easily because there just there just wasn't a lot of competition. So that company ended up getting bought by Kroll, and then the story gets even more exciting. But it ended up getting bought by Kroll. Kroll was bought by Martian McClellan. Then they kind of divested Kroll and they moved on. But the remaining group got bought by higher right. So, you know, in my kind of career, I started there with the company that's essentially now higher right. I moved from there to First Advantage, First Advantage to a smaller company out of Florida called Plus One, and then from there to PBSA. But when I was with Kroll, they did, and if anyone's familiar with them, this may not be news, but you know, they did hostage negotiations, they did all kinds of you know, high-level due diligence, business valuations, they did, you know, this kind of due diligence accounting work and kind of the exciting stuff. Kroll eventually bought a company called Ogera that did armored vehicles. So, you know, they would do armored vehicles all around the world for you know, top diplomats and the rest. And Kroll at that point um had the pleasure and you know later kind of came back full circle of having Michael Trikasky, who, if anyone's familiar with him, he was basically a mobbuster in New York taking down you know the gaudy Gambino families. He he did some really cool stuff. Um, but it was just such a, you know, for me at the time starting my career, such a grown-up, you know, just exotic, just fascinating world to be part of. And, you know, they who knows what their actual accounting book said, but I mean, they had lavish Christmas parties. They were flying to us, you know, from Toronto to Montreal, Montreal, we'd have our Christmas party out there. It was it was just a really cool way to start working. So, you know, life is life is good now, everything's kind of continued nicely, but there are moments where I look back and go, that's like that's the stuff of stories, that's movies now. Um, and you know, the screening world as I know it is certainly different, but I really did start running background checks myself, criminal records, doing all of that, and then, you know, fluke or fortune or opportunity and hard work, I kind of moved through the ranks and stuck with it, like I said, near on 30 years now. So this is all I know. So that's it. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 9:00

I mean, I mean, you you you had front row, uh a front row seat to lots of fun stuff.

SPEAKER_02 9:06

Yeah, it was, and I mean, you know, these are people that, you know, probably have no idea who I am, but I still, you know, every so often I'll see a story, and it's you know, this is this is kind of the the extension, I think, of, you know, maybe the lather rinse routine background screening many of us do every day, where you can, you know, it starts from a pattern, right? People are they tend to do the things they do. And it just, it was really interesting. And also, and you've had a lot of podcasts, you know, people have come from policing backgrounds and investigative backgrounds. It also gave me a really good understanding of the due diligence side, because you know, sometimes they would ask us to, you know, just run a simple criminal check or do education verifications as part of a due diligence project they were working on. Um, but as a senior member of the team, I did, I did get to see some of those kind of projects too. And that's, you know, if this all didn't work out, that side of the world was was interesting for me as well. So it was a great, great way to start. And obviously I got hooked.

SPEAKER_03 10:11

Wow. Never a dull day. It's fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 10:14

No, sometimes, but yeah. Back then, like I said, it was all shiny and new, and it wasn't, you know, it wasn't as commonplace. So each story was was a good story.

SPEAKER_03 10:24

And now the interesting thing is that you you you said you know we were all looking at all these adults, and now you're the adult.

SPEAKER_02 10:30

All right. Well, you know, I'm not sure sometimes. Last I'm I'm there are some people listening that they're gonna be like, she may be old, but he didn't throw up. So yeah. So one thing I both want to go back to when you asked about the current role that I didn't actually address is, you know, really what I enjoy the most. Um, and and I know we're gonna PBSA is gonna come up time and time again through this podcast for obvious reasons, but you know, I just get to work with with really cool people and help them. Um, you know, a running joke we have in our family is I can't really appropriately walk up to people on the street and start talking background screening. So the fact well, I can, but then that leads to criminal charges and stories we can't tell. But, you know, you get these scenarios where I found a world of people doing the same thing, loving the same thing, trying to make a difference, and being in, you know, kind of a life where I've I've pretty much been a volunteer for many, many years, being able to serve and help those people is is probably what the coolest thing is. And for me now it's it's truly my job as a volunteer. You know, it was fun, you were volunteering, but you got paid to do something else. You know, now that's that's my job. You know, how do we help our members? How do we help people we hope to be our members? Um, and that ends up being, you know, all kinds of variety in my day because you never know. You never know what someone's gonna ask or need or want. So while you were choking to death, I thought of that addition. So thought I'd throw it.

SPEAKER_03 12:03

That's great. Well, thank you. I I I appreciate you uh the the additional observation. I'll try not to choke anymore, but uh but but please, any anything that comes to mind, please share. Well, I mean it's really interesting. I mean, hearing all these these things you had the front row see to and and and how you started at the bottom and now you're you know much different situation. Well, what was uh an early lesson you think you learned in your career that has uh you know from all these adventures you had and all the things you saw, a lesson that uh sticks out in your mind that uh that that still sticks with you today?

SPEAKER_02 12:41

So I think two things. I think one, which is they're actually, you know, probably both life principles as well as work principles, is you know, always say thank you. Always, you know, recognize the work of others. Very, very few things are successful because of what you've done alone. Um, you know, I I try and do that. I try and try and be helpful and thankful and you know, kind of check in with people and and do the nice stuff. Um, but there are, especially in our industry, there are so many people doing great things and helping others and and they're doing it for free, right? They're not they're not doing it to grow their business, they're not doing it to, you know, get to the top of a pile somewhere. They're just doing it because it's the right thing to do. Um, so I think that's the first piece. And then the other one, which if anyone's ever worked with me or for me, they know this. Um, you either have to be having fun or you have to be learning. So the best days are when you're doing both. Um, you know, the crappiest days are probably not fun, but you can bet that you've learned something. And then there's some days, and you know, some listeners might think these are everyday for me, where you're just having fun. You know, it's all gotta get done. The work can be serious, I can be serious, you know, I can write formal letters and um, you know, handle negative information, but it that's that's just the task. Who you are can still be fun. So, you know, some people probably don't like it all the time, but that's fine. You you don't have to, but that's how I think I get through a lot, and and it's been that way for most of my work life is you know, they'll they'll see me working hard, you know, I'll ask them to do things they don't want to do, but at the end of the day, I think usually we can say we've had fun. So that to me is is probably the lesson that I've kept alive for most of my career, and I don't at this point it's not gonna change. So their days I'm fair should be less fun, but doesn't matter. We'll get through it.

SPEAKER_03 14:38

You you know, I I really have to kind of go back to the first thing you said about the the people that have worked so hard to contribute. And and that's been one of the really, for me as well, one of the real marvelous things about being involved in PBSA is the number of just really talented people who have done so much to grow the organization on their own dime, in their own time. And uh just because they they love it and they want to they're part of the team, part of the industry, it's it's uh it's a wonderful look. So that's just so true. That really rang a bell with me to think about all the people and all the hours and all the unsung heroes. And that I I think that's something that you know part of is really special about PBSA for me as well. So I I really love that. Well, what what keep you enjoying most about the background industry? Obviously, you uh you know you had all sorts of career paths and opportunity to do different things and go elsewhere or take different directions and you and you were attracted to screening. What what attracted you to the screening uh profession in the screening industry?

SPEAKER_02 15:42

I think, you know, on a very basic level, it's it goes back to doing the right thing. Uh you know, I know over the years we've kind of tried to define the value proposition of PBSA, and we've used language like, you know, protecting our workplaces, homes, communities. You know, I think there's lots of great stories of stupid people that we've screened, but at the end of the day, it's you know, really helping organizations, you know, for-profit, nonprofit, tenant-related organizations get the information they need to mitigate their risk and and do the right thing. Um, the quality of the people, like you've said, that I've been able to do this alongside the the vendors that we've had. I mean, some of my longest friends in the industry are vendor relationships. And really just kind of seeing the breadth of skills they bring to a role and how I've been able to develop has been probably what's been going. And as you know, even in all the monotony, there's never a dull day. There's always another client request that makes you shake your head or another applicant that did something you can't possibly have imagined. But, you know, beyond that is, you know, it is it's good stuff. And, you know, we've had a few opportunities recently where we've interviewed candidates and they've said, Oh, I I did know there was a screening association, but I understand why that would be important. Now, some of these people work for like, you know, the National Stone Association. I'm not sure granite's that important in our life, but you know, there there is that piece of we really are doing good and and we are making a difference, not just within our membership and for our members, but in the greater communities with which we operate. So sounds a little corny and over the top, but it, you know, it really is true, and it's something that never never fails to produce a good story or like I say, a a dumb story, but um it's you know, it's evolving, it's changed, and I know that's another one of the questions, right? It's changed a lot over over the years, but it does still it does still have a role, and I do think it's important.

SPEAKER_03 17:42

So Oh, absolutely. And and and also, you know, not only is helping uh employers, but also you know, PBSA has played is just playing such an important role in protecting the privacy and the rights and fairness of applicants as well.

SPEAKER_00 17:55

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 17:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean one of the questions we asked, but you know, don't we know just you know, sort of top of mind because we don't want to spend a lot of time on substance.

unknown 18:05

Uh right.

SPEAKER_03 18:07

People can read all sorts of blogs on on the or or and go to the conferences and get all the substance they can possibly get. But but given your unique perspective, where you started and and where you are in the industry now, just you know, quick top of mind uh biggest changes you've seen and and biggest challenges you see going forward.

SPEAKER_02 18:26

Yeah, I mean I think in some ways these are two sides of the same coin, right? That the change can can be a challenge depending on how you look at it. Um, you know, for me, very simply, the just the the evolution of the industry coming from you know a couple of companies to thousands of companies globally, um, you know, there's been a ton of MA activity and you know, sometimes that's good, sometimes it's not. You know, the money that is in this industry, I think sometimes again, sometimes it's good, sometimes it's not. It it drives people to do different things. Um for me, the kind of privacy side of it, which is something about 15 years ago I got into with I have privacy designations in both Canada and the US. Um, seeing that regulatory kind of trajectory, the change, the access challenges, not just in the US, but globally. You know, I I think it to me just underscores why PBSNE is important, why we have a reason for being. Um, there are always going to be people that don't change as, you know, if you don't evolve, you die. But I think there is also back to no swearing, there is some really cool beep happening around the world. And, you know, see what members are doing and what they're coming up with and some of the partnerships that are being created, that that to me is more exciting than threatening. I know just in my role, sometimes I have to put on the hat that says, well, where are we gonna be in five years? But there's also a lot of reason to believe we may not be the same, but there's still an absolute need for a coming together of just the screening companies, the vendors, the end users, the all the rest of it. Um but it's been, you know, the answer's kind of the same as as what anyone else would say. I haven't seen, I don't think, anything unique. But yeah, that's that's been good.

SPEAKER_03 20:19

Yeah, and you you touched on something that that has just really impressed me, the way um the uh the association has embraced uh globalization and how that's taken off. Um you know, and and seeing what's happening in um APAC and in Canada and Europe Africa. That to me that's just been been really amazing.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

Yeah, great. And thank you for using the new Europe-Africa moniker. We've just ruled that out. Yeah, it's I mean, I think it's for me. I started, you know, in a company that was just Canadian. Then when I moved to First Advantage, same thing, Canadian ops, but then I moved to actually a whole US-based team handling figure printing and I-9 verifications. Then I moved back into a role that was like 98% US, 2% Canada. So, you know, yes, I'm from Canada and still live here, you know, still work from here. Um, but kind of being on the front line of that global piece has been really, really interesting. And and as you said, what is happening in some of those councils is really cool. And there are companies and people that are, you know, just I'm so lucky to have in my network now and to learn from and and talk to and see their perspectives has been has been really great. And I think, you know, that's me as one person, whether you know, I'm working for PBSA or not, but all of our members get that benefit as well because as you said, we have done some work over the last ten years to really become a global association.

SPEAKER_03 21:54

So yeah, I mean the the the innovation, the new thought, the way people come to things. Um New new approaches. It's just so exciting. And it's just it's taken off as well. So congratulations on that. So before we get to PDSA more specifically, and then we'll talk about other stuff. In looking back, and you've described so much. Is there a particular accomplishment or achievement that really uh brings a smile to your face and uh sort of stands out in your mind? I know I'm probably hard to pick, but uh what what comes top of mind?

SPEAKER_02 22:38

So we'll we'll put family and kids and and dogs and you know sub-two-hour half marathon time. We'll put all that kind of stuff aside and I'll answer it related to work. I think for me, um it it really has been a lot of that global trek. I was, you know, the first global BSCC member. And I remember Jason Morris didn't know what to do with me, kind of handed me the standard and the P and Ps and said, Yeah, read this, which made no sense to me at all. Um but then I had the opportunity to be the first GAC chair, so that was our global advisory council. Um, I was the first global board chair, and then I was the first kind of global staff to come on board. So, you know, I think again, a lot of the global theme comes back and and those firsts and being there. And, you know, when I look back, it's really only been 15 years. Um, but I feel considering the last two I've you know been working for PBSA, I crammed a whole lot into that and and was able to be part of some amazing strategic plans. Um, you know, some of the changes we made in 2019 to go into a truly global association, the work done by Barry Nixon and Bob Capwell. Um, you know, it was just it was just a great seat to have at the table and to see how that's that's happened. And I think, you know, a lot of our newer members, and and by newer, that's like even in the last 10 years, don't necessarily know the pain that we went through to get there, but there's still still some around, you know, Fred Giles and Judy and Mary Pouquette that kind of remember that that run. And it's been it's been amazing. So I'm happy to have been part of that. Um, you know, moving to PBSA staff meant my role would change. And, you know, there there are times where I'm I miss that because I did get to do all the volunteer things that I could do. Um but I, you know, I like to know that I'm contributing in a different way, but I still have brought all that kind of history and knowledge and experience with me. Um and it it comes in handy, right? Every time the board changes, every time we have new committees, people, you know, have questions or come up with ideas. What, why did we do this? Why, where did this idea come from? And you know, there's as you know, fewer and fewer people around to tell those historical stories. So I'm glad that I'm still here for one, but also that for now mostly I remember it. Um, and and can continue to share and contribute in that way. So lots of firsts.

SPEAKER_03 25:10

Well, we're we're gonna get back to that sub-two-hour marathon, is what you said.

SPEAKER_02 25:14

Yeah, which isn't nowadays, it's yeah, that's uh that's a distinct memory too. So half marathon.

SPEAKER_03 25:20

Well, we're we're gonna we're gonna circle back to that. I I did not miss that. I want to hear about all that stuff.

SPEAKER_02 25:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:25

Um but let's let's finish uh sort of the the the track that we're on and uh route, you know, kind of circling back to PBSA. Um we we've talked a lot about it, but uh just to you know put a fine point on it, how's PBSA uh influenced your career?

SPEAKER_02 25:44

So, I mean, I think I probably win the award for answer on this question because PBSA is now my career.

SPEAKER_00 25:50

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 25:53

Um but you know, to me, I think PBSA's, you know, kind of been like a silent career coach um behind the scenes. I mean, the first kind of opportunity I had to get involved was was shaping and creating what was then called the Canada chapter. Um and then when I made my move into kind of US involvement, it was with um Brian McKelwey and Mary Beth Martino on the membership committee. Um, you know, that's where I met the likes of Barry and Bruce Berg and and some of our other industry OGs. But it's given me, you know, kind of three of the four jobs I've had in my life have been related to PBSA or PBSA connections. I've you know had the opportunity to develop my speaking skills, my writing skills, my presentation skills, the things you get exposure to in your job, but you have to do a certain way. Um, you know, PBSA gave me all those opportunities. Um, as we noted off the start, also gave me the 20th PBSA anniversary course line experience that I would like to forget. Um but you know, you you kind of you develop in a way that is a little bit different than how you do just in your job when you have the volunteer opportunities. And um, you know, I've had to be diplomatic, which as many people know, I'm still working on most days. You know, you've had to be collaborative.

SPEAKER_03 27:15

Um that's very diplomatically put. That's good.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

Yes, I'm learning. Yes, I am. Um, but it's you know, it's all those things that you you you kind of want to keep doing and and learning. And you know, some people will do Toastmasters or something outside of their work environment that I I just found all through PBSA, which is which has been really cool.

SPEAKER_03 27:37

Yeah, and and and the thing, and I I've said this before, if people listen to the podcast, but in listening to you, what what really comes to mind is is again this idea that PBSA is such a great meritocracy because no one appointed you to these tasks or designated you. There was no inside track. You were able to do these things and and uh hold these positions and so forth, just because you decided that you were going to You were gonna do it. I mean you just put what put yourself out there and you did it and you did it well.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

Or or I was the only sucker that stood up and said, Yeah, here you go. We'll try.

SPEAKER_03 28:14

Well, that's an alternative too. It's why Oh yeah, she'll do it.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

Your version's better. Your version's probably yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:19

Yeah. Or if you miss a meeting, okay, Michelle's in charge. It's great. All right.

SPEAKER_02 28:23

And then I think for me too, some of it, especially, you know, having come over to the staff side, you know, we've we've had ethnic situations and different things that have come up that I never I never would have been exposed to otherwise. So that's also really cool. Is it again back to that variety in my day and and breadth in the job is, you know, there's always something new to challenge me and grow. Um, and and that's been great. That's been great. And it wouldn't be possible without PBSA.

SPEAKER_03 28:54

I mean, you touched on something that uh that I find really fascinating about the screening industry. You get to a point where you think, I've done it all, I've saw it all, I've I I know it all. And then the uh 10 minutes later, something comes up out of left field, and you just have no idea what to do with it. Like, what? Who? How? What do I do now? It's like every day.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

Yeah, well, and even, you know, we deal in Canada, and obviously because of the the US work, and then I also handle the AIPAC GR committee. Like, as a taxpayer, there are things that happen and decisions that get made by governments that make you shake your head. But you're shaking your head as a taxpayer, and that's one perspective. But then when you start pulling back the layers, as we do with some of our kind of, I don't want to use the word lobbying, but advocacy efforts and educative ever efforts that we try and, you know, get through to these lawmakers, you really you do get different perspectives on things because now you're already frustrated as a taxpayer. Now you're also frustrated as an association or as a member of the association. But that part's been really interesting too, because same thing, right? You you think they aren't possibly going to do something this crazy, and then here you go, Bill 54 comes along and that's crazy. So it's that part's been been interesting too, is seeing that GR side of our industry and and the impacts that's had.

SPEAKER_03 30:18

And it's not Yeah, I you can never underestimate the ability of legislators or ex or or uh bureaucrats to the the the who think they're doing the right thing just fall uh you know the victim of the law of unintended consequences. They're trying to help consumers, they they they totally shaft consumers. And you try to explain it to them and to you're blue in the face, and and and it they it takes them a while to get it.

SPEAKER_02 30:43

Yeah. A big part of our role is education, and that is the nicest way to explain what we have to do sometimes, because they they don't fit. You're right. They unintended consequences gets used regularly in our language.

SPEAKER_03 31:00

So they just don't understand the world, and some of them don't want to, and and then uh uh eventually, and we know you're just you're just screwing over your your your constituents, your your job seekers. Like and and your employers and your taxpayers. Oh no, we're we're upholding whatever they think they're upholding. But but anyway, I'll get off my myself box on that one as well. I think we can all we can all get started going down that road. That's right. So so in in in your role, and we kind of covered this in the intro as the uh director of operations, you have a huge portfolio. I mean I I I mean I didn't even have time to write everything down.

SPEAKER_02 31:41

So what was it again, membership and uh the committees and the councils and yeah, and we obviously have PDSA staff that that handle those things too, but membership, marketing, communication. So I'm I'm the girl behind all those articles that go in the Thursday letter. You know, accreditation is a is a big piece of it. And then the councils, our global councils, of which we have the four that you noted earlier. So um and anything else really that comes up, right? Outshoots from the board. Right now, we're starting strategic planning for our next three or five year strategic plan. Um, I was lucky enough when I came on board to pick up many of those tasks. So it's that variety is probably what keeps me as engaged as it as I can be, is I'm not ever on one thing too much, too long, too often. Um, or if I am, I have the option to go to something else that might be a little easier or more interesting. But it's all all kinds of things. And then, you know, we never, as we've covered, we never know what's gonna come in the door and we're gonna have to puzzle through. So being available for that has also been been really cool.

SPEAKER_03 32:47

Well yeah, I I'll just interrupt with I mean, you you mentioned the Thursday letter, and just I hadn't thought about this for years, but the do you may not know how the Thursday letter came about. I can tell you. I remember having been the first chair and then then going down, uh being then after that being uh past chair, uh obviously I was really involved, and then when I became when I when I said, okay, I'm retired, I became no chair, I was off the board, I realized I have no contact with PBSA, I have no idea what's happening. And and I and and I called up the whoever's there with the chair, I said, Do you realize now that I'm off the board, I realize there's there's there's no communication. If you're a member, you never hear. I said, you gotta send out a newsletter. And and and at first I said do it too Tuesday. And initially it was just it was a just a Tuesday email, and it then it morphed into the Thursday letter. But that was you know, I had that weird experience of, oh, I'm no longer involved in leadership. And and there's just uh like uh just a just complete silence. And then you know, and those are the sort of things you you know association learns over over a period of time.

SPEAKER_02 33:57

So I don't know, just you come off the board too, right? Like we've heard that from a lot of passport chairs is you know, you move from chair to past chair and and then you're out, but you were on the inside for so many things. And I think that's in some reasons why we get so many of the past chairs that then join finance is that still gives them a purview of what's happening in the association. Um, and of course, now just natural evolution. I mean, everything's electronic, sending the Thursday letter, it isn't it's not hard. Um but one of the funny things, before I even worked for PBSA staff, my last job for 10 years, I would track articles. So as I came across articles that I felt were relevant for our organization, I would send them through to PBSA. So at that point it was Rachel who would put together the Thursday letter. And I would say, don't know if you can use this, but here's an article. And then it got to be whenever I did my articles, I would just send them to PBSA. So secretly I was kind of working for PBSA before I grew up. Um but that's also now for me how I continue to keep up on what's happening in industry. Um, and because so much of what I get is global, I can see parallels to you know what Rory is dealing with for access in California is no different than what we're dealing with in the South Thailand Bangkok courts, right? Like those sort of things are what helps us connect the dots behind the scenes and really makes us realize we're more alike than we are different. So everyone likes to think they're special and they are. That's what their mom said. But a lot of what happens in one jurisdiction is just happening somewhere else as well.

SPEAKER_03 35:38

So exactly right. Well, let's let's move beyond PBSA and and the professional career, and let's talk about uh Michelle LeBlanc. There are times when you're not thinking or doing things about screening. Uh you must have a life outside of screening. Uh what do you do for fun? What's your hobbies? What's your interest? I I I see a family picture behind you. I think you you told me you're you are uh as we you're you sit here now, you're you're in Toronto. I love the city. I love this the uh baseball stadium there. So what do you what do you do in your non-screening time?

SPEAKER_02 36:11

I like to nap. I don't I don't know if that's exactly a hobby or an interest, but I I do really like to nap.

SPEAKER_03 36:17

Or a necessity.

SPEAKER_02 36:18

Yeah, both. Um but I also I sleep well at night too. So it is it's an add-on to that, not an instead of. Um, you know, I I read, I run, we have two kids, so they keep us busy with their lives and and their sports. Um we have cottage, we spend some time at. Um, but it's yeah, it's it's a it's a good life. It's been been good. I don't, you know, have any crazy, crazy hobbies or or out-of-the-norm hobbies. And then, you know, like we said, you just kind of find the fun wherever you are.

SPEAKER_03 36:49

And and uh it's been really interesting in doing some of these interviews. People uh have kids and the kids are doing sports. What what sports are are are you a a parent of?

SPEAKER_02 36:59

Um so my daughter is our daughter is volleyball, um, and then she also does uh running long and triple jump, and then our son uh is a kart racer, so go-kart racer.

SPEAKER_01 37:12

Oh great.

SPEAKER_02 37:13

Yeah, and you know, whatever else they think of, he's started to golf. I don't think we'll see him on tour anytime soon, but you know, they're they're at the age where they're finding what they love. Um, in some cases, I think they're finding whatever they can to spend our money on, but um but it's it's great.

SPEAKER_00 37:30

Or your money, one of the two.

SPEAKER_02 37:32

And it's not your money. Less, maybe it should be. But um but yeah, and it's you know, it it takes the time. So there are you know days where, like after we're done this, we gotta run out to beach volleyball for a couple of hours. But it's great. And you know, we see them in different ways than you know, we see them just as a student or just as a child when you see them as part of a team. Um, and it's it's always a pleasant surprise when you, you know, you realize how resilient they are, how well maybe they turned out despite everything we've done. The contrary. But yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:05

Oh, that's fantastic. All right, and tell us about this under two-hour marathon. I I don't think I've ever a half marathon. It's still fantastic. Yeah. Which half? First or second half. Yeah, the hard half.

SPEAKER_02 38:17

But yeah. So it's yeah, I mean, it's what keeps me sane. Um, you know, it's that that time when I can just do what what I want to do. Um, you know, we also have a dog, and even just I was telling someone today, just getting out out of the house. I've worked from home for near on 15 years. This is not a COVID thing. This is normal. And although I love it, I I can't be in one place for eight hours at a time. So like conferences are really hard for me when I would go to our US offices. Um, that's just that's just not the way I'm made. So being out in the fresh air, walking, moving. Um, you know, I have Vince Brote in the back of my head saying, anything can get moving, get, you know, like that that's me. That's a big part of how I kind of center and control my energy. So it's you know, whenever I can, it it doesn't bother me if it's cold, if it's wet, if it's rainy. Um it's well, you're from Canada.

SPEAKER_03 39:12

I mean, how can it? How could it bother you?

SPEAKER_02 39:15

So well, it was like 110 degrees here the last three days. So we don't live in Igloose all year round. Let's dispel that myth. But um Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:25

So but it's I mean a half marathon in two hours is still brilliant. I mean, a half marathon is 13 something miles. So that's six six miles and I mean, what are those 10 minute miles or 12 minute miles?

SPEAKER_02 39:39

Well, we do it in kilometers, so I don't know. You're nurse, you're speaking another language. The rest of the entire world does it in kilometers less, but yeah.

unknown 39:48

All right.

SPEAKER_03 39:49

Well, yeah, I'm I'm I I have a lot of miles on me, but uh and and and and and more kilometers, I guess. All right. Okay, well, time to play fun facts. With Shelley, tell us a share uh if if you're willing and able, and this is completely voluntary, um, share us something about yourself that uh people may not know, uh unrelated to background screening.

SPEAKER_02 40:12

So I think this was probably one of the the harder questions. Um, you know, I haven't kissed Johnny Depp. I didn't start a screening company in Frat House, I didn't name a cocktail in some exotic place like Alonzo. Um but I'm the firstborn Canadian in my family. Um my parents originally were both from York, from Holland and Italy. I don't do coffee, and to which I usually follow that up by saying, You really do not need me on caffeine. Um I have had both a motorcycle and a gun license, but I think I was smart enough not to use them or need them.

SPEAKER_03 40:49

So especially at the same time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:52

You never know. I could be like an action hero.

SPEAKER_03 40:55

That's right. A dri a drive-by, a drive-by action hero, drive-by shooter.

SPEAKER_02 41:00

Sounds like a life of crime, but I'm I'm down for it. Um I think people maybe don't know that I'm I'm actually quite shy. I I'm not comfortable in a networking situation. If I know people, it's fine. And if they ask me things, I can answer. I test out as a you know, an extrovert, but I the peopleing thing is is sometimes hard for me. And I think that's why, you know, often I can come across as inappropriate or awkward. Um, it's just not it's just not an easy spot. It's something I I have to work on. Um, I have like I talked about earlier. I mean, I I can get up, I can speak in front of a crowd, I can be in a crowd. Like I, you know, I don't have anxiety or claustrophobia or anything like that, but I just in a room full of strangers, I'm not the person that you probably know because I I know you, right? So I'm not I'm not shy the same way. Again, like I said earlier, it's you know, working from home all the time is fine. Even being in an office for me is it's hard because there's there's just people there all the time. And sometimes peopleing is is just a a little thing I have to work on. So yeah, there's I don't know if that's like a blockbuster revelation, but yeah, for the for the one that talks all the time and seems to be fine in crowds, sometimes there's another story.

SPEAKER_03 42:26

So but you know, that's not unusual in the fact that people are more comfortable with with people that they know. And uh I I I think that's uh that's a great thing.

SPEAKER_02 42:35

Uh well, and I think that's also why I like being in a role where you know, before I was opsin compliant, so I I could tell people what I know, or even now at PDSA, where I like the thought of um having to cold call people that I could not do that. I can do it by email and I can do other things, but you know, that's just that's just not my forte, but I think that's okay. Um, like I said, I I can give information and I know all the information, but I just would not be great at initiating it. So I I have to tell you, those career in my future, I guess. That's the other downside.

SPEAKER_03 43:14

I I uh anyone who can cold call, I I sit there and scratch my head and wonder how can you do that? To me, that's that's the equivalent of you know, how can you jump out of an airplane without without a parachute? It's just like I would think that's the scariest thing in the world to make you get a cold call.

SPEAKER_02 43:30

And you know what? I think that's why when you find people that are good at it, it's it's gold. It is it is such a great trait and skill to have, but there's you know, they sell it and I'll figure out how to deliver it. That's I'm okay with that.

SPEAKER_03 43:45

There you go. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 43:49

Yeah, I think it's just what I know, right? I mean, just like you said, off the top, like just let me do the work. Just just give me the task, let me get it done, let's move on to the next. So

SPEAKER_03 44:00

This has been fantastic. This has been a lot of fun. You know, I love these podcasts because you just get to know people and you learn so much. And you've just been you have been a wonderful guest. I really appreciate that. This is great. So so we we we will go through the couple little last questions here. Um given your perspective on the industry, if someone were to come to you and they're a newbie in the industry, or maybe they're they're a verifier or a criminal researcher, they haven't really moved up yet, and and and maybe they want to, or you know, they're just thinking of getting the industry some in some way. What would your advice be for newcomers in terms of either entering or staying or progressing in the industry?

SPEAKER_02 44:46

So there are days where I would say run, run for the hills, don't look back, depending what what's happening that day. But no, I think for me it's you know, it's a couple of things. It takes time to learn. Um, you know, we've, as I said, I've kind of done all kinds of volunteer positions. Like the BSCC is probably the hardest thing. And people would onboard and we would say, you will not get this right away. That is probably the the motto for our industry. There is so much and it seems so overwhelming, but it's like anything, right? One step at a time, one foot in front of the other. I think that, you know, if you understand you're not gonna be able to boil the ocean day one, that's that's the biggest thing to make sure you're successful later. I think the other thing is, and this is not the shameless plug it's gonna sound like, but PBSA and its people are there to help. So it is it is your vendors in a true business situation. It is people you may volunteer with that will help you grow and develop personally. You know, if you want to move up in your company and you don't have the opportunities there, find it in the volunteer space, right? Is there a project you can get involved in? Is there something you can write? Is there a session you can present at a conference? You know, find a way to get what you need to keep growing. And and it may not be in your company. And, you know, I think there are a lot of, as we've said, just helpful people in our industry that you can you can ask and you can work with and bounce ideas off of. It's exciting for me to get to work with some of our committees. Um I work with the US Industry Practices Committee. I sit on the ERC Educational Resources Committee. And every four or five months, someone new joins that I kind of look at and I'm like, I'm gonna watch you because you're good. And you may not know it yet, but I I can see that it's there. So, you know, I think everyone's timeline for their success is different. And some people, you know, have high expectations of themselves. But you know, as with everything, give yourself grace, but understand this is a this is a sticky wicket. It's a pretty complicated one and it's constantly changing and evolving. And just find one piece that you can get under your belt and then find another and you just keep rolling forward. And you know, not everybody needs to be an expert in everything. Um, but I think on the flip side of it, some of the people that think they are subject matter experts really are, right? You you can you don't just call yourself a subject matter expert and there you be. Um so you know, be be good at at what you like, what you want, and it'll come. It'll all come. It always pays off. You I think everything happens for a reason. Seems a little philosophical, but um, you know, it things take time, but wonderful opportunities also present themselves.

SPEAKER_03 47:37

So I mean you said so many great things, but one nugget I'm gonna pick up on that really kind of um I hadn't really put together before until I heard you say it, is that if a person listening to this is a you know, let's say you're not high up in your organization, you're a verifier, you're an entry-level criminal, whatever it is you are, and and and you may not be making it to the uh you know a directorship or right away, there's always the opportunity to stand out if if you wish, uh by volunteering. Yeah. So by by calling up PBS, anyone, anyone in the entry can call up uh PFSA and volunteer and be on a committee, and you can start slowly. In the first few months, you just listen and then you volunteer, okay, I'll be part of this group that's going to maybe write this part of this white paper, and and and you slowly grow with it, and uh it goes back to being a meritocracy, it's open to anybody, anyone in the industry. So that's a great point. Well, I think that's a good idea. Anyone in the industry can get in, get involved.

SPEAKER_02 48:38

And I think too, for some people, they you know, the opportunities just don't exist in their organization. Either they really don't exist, or within their role with their manager, it doesn't exist. But it doesn't mean it's not there. And you know, obviously we'll put the plug in, do it with PBSA, but sometimes it's inside of that. I mean, I started volunteering with what was then called Big Sisters of York. And, you know, it it may be PBSA, we'd love it to be, but if you aren't finding it in your little role, find it somewhere else because if it's important enough to you, you'll figure it out.

SPEAKER_03 49:14

Oh, that's great advice, Michelle. I really appreciate it. This has been, believe it or not, we have um I know time has time has gone by. It's just this this has been so great. But but let's let's end. I'm gonna end this podcast where we always end them by by giving uh giving you the last word. The floor is yours. And uh any closing thoughts or anything you want to add? It's it's all yours.

SPEAKER_02 49:39

I mean, maybe just kind of ending with with what I've said throughout. I mean, have fun, right? I mean, I don't want to be so Debbie Downer to say you life is short, shorter than we think. You never know, but it's it's all work. Um, it's not more important than anything else. It's not more important than life. So have have fun while you're doing it and and find your people. Um, you know, there's so many people in this industry that you know, oh, I've got a thousand LinkedIn connections. And I'm like, but how many do you know? How many really know you? And it doesn't, you know, it it doesn't end with work, right? Obviously, there's life beyond that, and you never know when you're gonna need your people. Um, you know, some people it it might be 50, 50 people in their squad. But as long as you've got kind of that one person that'll hold your hand when you need it, to me, you've made it. That that's the success. People they'll surprise you, they'll disappoint you. Um, you know, constantly there are people where I'm like, geez, I I don't think the same of you anymore. But the ones, the ones that are there, that are always there, that don't let you down, that's you know, that's when you know you're okay. Um, and if something happens and you you don't have those people, then then start looking because it really it gets you through a lot. Work, life, everything. Although we gotta we better go back to fun because that kind of like left things on a low note. So have fun.

SPEAKER_03 51:03

Have fun if you're not gonna be able to do that. That's right. Or or or another way, I I I I think of it as you know, fun or or joyful. I mean, you know, you know, have a a spirit in joy in in in in in love, work, life, whatever it is you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 51:14

Yeah, you know, I mean, it's it's a relationship, right? It takes work. Um there are people that I gotta call, I gotta call. You know what? Make the time to call. Because very rarely will somebody say, I don't have time for you. But if they do, and that's not followed by, but I'll talk to you next Tuesday, then again, they're not they're not your people. Um so yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:38

Wow. This has been great. I um normally we um uh these these things um sort of come to end quicker, but I didn't want this to end. I would be happy to talk to you for another hour.

SPEAKER_02 51:51

I'm late because I was watching the time and I'm like, uh, here we go again. I just talked too much.

SPEAKER_03 51:55

Uh but but you have 29 minutes to get the volleyball practice. I think we're good.

SPEAKER_02 52:00

I'm fine. Yeah. Probably even have to do them before I go.

SPEAKER_03 52:03

So that's great. Is it uh uh indoor volleyball or beach volleyball?

SPEAKER_02 52:07

It's beach.

SPEAKER_03 52:08

All right.

SPEAKER_02 52:09

Yeah, it's actually way more fun to watch. Um and it's lovely, it's right by a lake, so I can go for a walk in the area. It's closer to home than some of the other places we've been, but yeah, it's fun.

SPEAKER_03 52:20

All right. Welcome. And and and as long as and and and and some days you're you're the uh you're the snack provider, right?

SPEAKER_02 52:27

Snack, water, driver, chauffeur, laundry, everything.

SPEAKER_03 52:35

Well well, ladies and gentlemen, this has been a really wonderful episode with with Michelle LeBlanc. The the uh why did I just one last question? I'll let you go get on to beach volleyball. Uh I I think the answer might be obvious, but why do you call yourself the ops girl on LinkedIn? I I think that that's such a wonderful way of putting it.

SPEAKER_02 52:55

Because it's what I've done. Um, you know, even when I managed businesses within, you know, First Advantage or at the time what was cruel, um, it it always comes down to the operations. How do you get it done? Um, you know, workflow process, those are are the things that I do. Uh it maybe underscores that um not being an extrovert comment I made earlier, where I I just like to be behind the scenes making sure that those those trains stay on the track, which is you know kind of how we started it.

SPEAKER_03 53:25

So it's well that's great, ladies and gentlemen. We've we had the chance here to uh spend some some really wonderful quality time with Michelle LeBlanc, former chair of PBSA, um and uh now director of operations of PBSA. And as I said at the beginning, and uh I was proven right, a person who does not hesitate to say what's on her mind. And I think we're all better off for it. So I really appreciate it. And really appreciate everything you're doing for PBSA. I think um uh you know, you and the whole team, everyone's just doing such a fabulous job, and the organization is just is just exploded, exploded beyond anything anyone would have thought years ago when it first started. Uh thanks to you and a lot of people like you doing all this work, so it's just been fantastic. Michelle, thank you very much.

SPEAKER_02 54:11

Thank you for starting it and giving us something to carry on. We wouldn't be here without the likes of you.

SPEAKER_03 54:17

So uh well, I appreciate that. All right, well, good luck at volleyball. And ladies and gentlemen, this has been another episode of Behind the Screens, today's background pro, our friend Michelle LeBlanc. Looking forward to seeing you next week. Thanks, Michelle.

SPEAKER_01 54:31

Take care.

SPEAKER_03 54:32

Bye-bye. All right, that was yet another wonderful conversation with a background screening pro. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to hit subscribe so you never miss an update. And hey, if you got a moment, we'd love for you to leave us a review. It really helps get the word out. For more info or to catch up on past episodes, or to make suggestions, or to suggest possible future guests, head over to our website. Once again, this is your host Les Rosen, and it's been a pleasure to bring you another episode. See you on the next episode. Thanks.