Episode 63: Patti McGowan on Mentorship, Culture, and the Evolution of Background Screening

In this episode, Patti walks me through her entrepreneurial journey, starting from a typing service with an IBM Selectric III at age 21 to building a successful background screening company, SPI (Select Personnel International). 

We dive into the early days of background investigations back in 1984 and how she transitioned from domestic PI cases to corporate screening.

But what really impressed me throughout our conversation was her unique approach to leadership and team building. Patti reveals why she prioritizes hiring college students, why meeting people where they are matters, and how treating your staff like family leads to decades of loyalty. 

She's got employees who've been with her for 10, 15, and even 20+ years—that says something special about a business.

Whether you work in the screening industry or are just curious, stick around for authentic, unfiltered stories you won't hear anywhere else. This is what Behind the Screens is all about.

Key Takeaways:

• The Origin Story: How Patti turned a $300 investment in a typewriter into a thriving business with 21 employees.
• Industry Evolution: The transition from manual background checks in the 1980s to modern screening practices.
• Building Loyalty: Why Patti’s staff stays with her for 10, 15, and even 20+ years.
• Mentorship Matters: The value of hiring college students and high school interns to bring fresh energy into the workplace.
• Workplace Culture: How rewarding employees with company cars, vacations, and a supportive environment drives success.

Did you enjoy my conversation with Patti?

Subscribe on Spotify or wherever you listen, and follow us on YouTube. Thanks to our sponsor, PreemploymentDirectory.com, publisher of Background Buzz and numerous other resources. And a special thanks to W. Barry Nixon.

Connect with US:

• Les Rosen- https://www.linkedin.com/in/lesterrosen/
• Subscribe to our YouTube Channel- https://www.youtube.com/@BehindtheSCreens200

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

And I always say to the staff, we have to meet people where they're at. So not everybody's in the same place. Not everybody can do what everybody else can just because they went to the same school, got the same degree, or grew up in the same town. We have to meet our staff, our clients, everybody. We have to meet them where they're at.

SPEAKER_02 0:28

Welcome to Behind the Screens Conversations with Background Screening Pros. I'm Les Rosen, your host, and I'm excited to have you here. On this podcast, we chat with the people who know the background screening world inside and out. Executives, industry experts, legal pros, and more. We dive into their personal stories and insights to give you a real look at what's happening behind the scenes. Whether you work in the screening industry or are just curious, behind the screens bring you the real unfiltered conversations from the people who make it all happen. Stick around for stories you won't hear anywhere else. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of Behind the Screens, a podcast of Background Screening Pros. And I should add, sponsored by the Pre-employment Screening Directory and our good friend Barry Nixon. And today the program lives up to its name because we have a real pro with us today. In fact, a person who I would call an icon of the background screening industry, a lady who I was trying to remember when I first met her and realized I don't remember ever not knowing her. My conference buddy from the old days at ASIS. We worked together predating any PBS PBSA. She is going to have lots of great information and a person that I'm sure you all know and you're going to know better over the next course of the next of the podcast. And it's a real pleasure to have on the program my good friend, my good longtime friend, Patty McGowan. Patty, welcome to the program.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

Thank you so much, Les. You know, I'm happy to be here.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

Well, we're really happy to reconnect and have you on the program. Well, listen, we're we'll start off with our icebreaker question. Where are you today? Where in the world is Patty McGowan talking to us from?

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Today I am in Alabama, Orange Beach. About three years ago, my husband and I bought a beach house out here. We used to have a condo out here 10, 15 years ago. And we decided this was where when we eventually retire and just have that extra time, this is where we would want to be. So we spend a lot of time here. He rides bikes, so it's nice out here. The weather's great. And I go back and forth between here and Texas. Two weeks here, two weeks there, two weeks here, two weeks there.

SPEAKER_02 3:00

That's fantastic. And are you near near the coast, near the Gulf?

SPEAKER_00 3:04

I can actually see it out my window right now. My office is on third floor, thank goodness. So I'm about a football field away, but I can see the Gulf.

SPEAKER_02 3:17

I'm so jealous. That's fantastic. And when you do go to Texas, remind us where you go in, Texas.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

Uh Burleson, Texas is where our office is and has been since I think we moved there in 2011. Uh, prior to that, we were in Whitney, Texas. That's where I started the company in 2002, down in Whitney. But it's in Burleson now, which is closer to Fort Worth. And it gave us the capability of hiring college students like we like to do, and getting people in this industry. That's what it's all about, right?

SPEAKER_02 3:55

Well, let's let's go into it. What is your we we started into it? Your your your company, S SBI, Select Personnel International. Tell us what you currently do, your current position, obviously.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Currently, I'm mostly oversight administrative, maybe sometimes the 10,000-foot fixer, because most of the staff who have been with me for so long, they know what to do. They've been there long enough, they know what they need to do. With the growth of my management team over the course of the last 26 years, we've certainly we have a method to our madness. And so we have lots of manuals, we have lots of online instruction for all the new people that start. So it's mostly oversight, the admin, you know, make sure the insurance is the insurance I want to have. Make sure the HR people and the people in accounting are, you know, taking care of the things the way I've set them up. So it works well.

SPEAKER_02 5:02

Well, one of the real amazing things about your firm, SBI, is the number of people you've had with you for so long, which is a real testament to you. I know I know I know Andrew Cashman's there. Who else do you have that's been there been there for a long time?

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Amanda Sosa, she's been with me since gosh, 2000. Tony Clyot, she's been with me since, oh my goodness, 1996, she started with me. So since she was 15 years old. So she's been with me a long time. And Aubrey, he's been with me for almost 20 years. I just have a lot of people that have been with me between that eight-year and 15-year mark, but they're the ones that have been with me the longest. And they're great, they take care of our business. They definitely do. There's a loyalty there that goes both ways. Right. I think they're as loyal to me as I am to them.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

Well, I mean, that says something special about a business that has that that type of longevity. So congratulations, it's fantastic. What was your career path? What was your journey from here to there? You know, from you know, the from wanting to start uh SPI to where we are today. Tell us a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

I think I I started out being a mom with a young son, and I wanted to be homework. And so I wound up starting a typing service. I was working for a legal firm, a law firm in Baltimore, and I loved the job. I loved it. And I had an opportunity to start doing transcription where you listened on the little tapes, and I started doing transcription because I could type over a hundred words a minute. And so I started doing transcription for an insurance company, and then I started doing it for the University of Baltimore Law School, and then I started doing it for the students at the University of Baltimore Law School, and it just wound up that I had about 21 people doing transcription for me, and so the people that I worked for would pay me four cents a line, four cents, and I would pay my people two cents a line, and the work just kept growing, and I eventually couldn't do it just on my little old typewriter. So I went to the IBM store on Pratt Street in Baltimore, and I told them I needed to buy an IBM Selectric 3 because that was what I had at the law firm, and they told me it was like $900. And I said, Well, I can give you $100 a month. And the salesperson, he was like, Yeah, hold on a minute. And he went and got his manager, and his manager came out and he said, No, no, we don't do that. He said, You would have to have the money or you would have to apply for a loan. Well, I was only 21 with zero credit. And so the guy, I had $300 that I had saved up. And so I told him I would give him my $300 if he let me have that Selectric three, and that I would walk from my other job because I was doing the typing part-time. I would walk from my job at the law firm every other Friday and give him the $50. And he agreed to it. I wore him down, and I actually paid him off in three months. I was able to pay that $600 back to him.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

Oh, that's a great story. And and and for those of you that you know don't don't appreciate, there there was a time when IBM's electric was the height of technology. Yes, it was.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

I love that backspace where it would take out your one mistake of a letter.

SPEAKER_02 9:21

That was that was that was just a revelation. Before that, people people don't believe it, but man, if you messed up a page, I mean, unless you used whiteout or or some correcto, it was it was quite the thing the IBM's electric was just was just was awe-inspiring at the time.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

And now it's like and I was typing with five pieces of carbon paper, everything I had to do because they needed five copies, so you did not want to make mistakes.

SPEAKER_02 9:49

Yeah, that was before copying machines were even popular.

SPEAKER_00 9:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 9:53

But but the impressive thing, Peggy, about that story is that even then at 21, you were quite the entrepreneur to get 21 people working for you and sending out the business. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

My father and my mother, I would finish typing. I would get home from my full-time job at six o'clock from Baltimore. I would start typing at nine o'clock after I had time to take care of our son. And then my parents would start proofreading work at 10 o'clock while I typed from 10 to 2. And they would proofread all the work the other people brought in. And then at 2 o'clock, we would be done. And the next day my dad would deliver to everybody and pick up new work.

SPEAKER_02 10:37

And oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 10:39

It was, let me tell you, it was interesting.

SPEAKER_02 10:43

That that that is an amazing origin story. I mean, the idea that you had you know the height of technology and 21 people, and uh I remember as a young as a young lawyer dictating everything, and then that's how you do it. Yes, that's right. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 10:58

And then I went from there when I was eventually able to leave, I wound up having an opportunity to work PI cases on the weekends, domestics, you know, people, wives cheating, husbands cheating. And so I started doing that, and I did that for two years probably. And at one point, Westinghouse in Baltimore heard about me because of a case I worked, and they contacted me and they wanted me to use my typist to do background investigations. And I said, Oh yeah, I don't do that. I type. And they said no. And of course, they were using one of the big guys, and this is in 1984, 1984, and they taught me how to do the background checks from beginning to end. I went to my parents uh a few days later and I asked them if I could borrow enough money to buy two Apple computers and two printers, and they were the big Macs back then that you had to buy. And um my parents lent me the money to do that, and I started that little company, and um I did the background checks before the DOD came in, and I used my typist, and um Westinghouse paid me a flat fee, and then I paid my people a flat fee to do, and then I was the only one that typed, and then eventually I hired more people, and we worked out at the basement of Rick's in my house for probably two years before we were able to get an office.

SPEAKER_02 12:59

Well, you mentioned Rick, so let's bring him into the conversation.

SPEAKER_00 13:03

He's um my husband of 46 years.

SPEAKER_03 13:06

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 13:06

Um, and he is definitely my pusher. He encourages me to do all the crazy things that I want to do when I say to him, Oh, maybe I should do this, or what if I do this? And he'll say, Patty, you'll you'll be a success at it. I I opened a coffee shop and an uh ice cream coffee shop one time, and he was like, Why are you doing this? You have a full-time job, a career. And I said, Because I want to do something for this little town of Whitney, because I want people to be able to have a place to come and just have coffee, and I want the kids from school to be able to come after school, and we can buy them pizzas and we can have computers they can work on, we can do all that kind of stuff. So that was that was fun. That I I could do that all the time. Oh, that's fun. It was nice, it was fun.

SPEAKER_02 14:08

You were telling me uh before we started that that Rick Rick went off to England and uh we watched Hunger.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

He is football. It's football. Okay, he is watching Arsenal, Tottenham, and then another Arsenal game. He's over there for 10 days, and actually, we had a French foreign exchange student that came over last year and spent three months with us and worked for me. And he actually came to Boston and we introduced him to everybody. He was great, and we've known his family for like 35, 40 years because they were foreign exchange students that came over, the parents did back in the 80s. Um they came over and stayed with us, the brothers, and he the brother, one of them with his daughter, made the decision to fly from Grenoble to London, and they're there with Rick now. They're at a game right now, watching. That's fantastic. Isn't that great?

SPEAKER_02 15:10

Yeah, that's fantastic. So so we're so we're at the point where you're doing background checks for a large company in your basement for a couple years, and then what happened next?

SPEAKER_00 15:20

I sold both of the companies, sold them to my accountant and another investor, and they took them over. And I think the pre-employment screen company was purchased by, I believe, Background America at some point. I know they're not in business, they were bought out, but they had bought that portion of it, and I sold the transcription company too, and then I went on to be an HR for a long time. I did HR, I did recruiting. I loved recruiting, that was fun. It was contingency, so you only got paid if you made placements. And my boss would get upset with me because I would make two placements the first of the month. Well, that was more money than I had been making working full time. And I would say to him, Yeah, I'm not coming in tomorrow the next day. I'm gonna go do something with my son. And he would be like, Patty, you could make so much more if you kept recruiting. And I was like, Yeah, yeah, but I made the two placements. You said I had to make two a month. And so it, but it was fun. I loved recruiting, I really enjoyed doing that.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

And how long was that for? And then what happened?

SPEAKER_00 16:36

Um, I did that for about three, four years. Okay, because I wanted to be home with Jeremy when he got home, and that's our son. I wanted to be home when he got off the bus or walked home, and you know, just to be able to do things with him. And then I guess it was in '95, '96, I started pre-screen America with Tim Best. And you remember Tim. Um, and so I started with Tim and then I stayed there for I guess eight, nine years, maybe ten, before I started this company.

SPEAKER_02 17:13

Oh, that's fantastic. And and how did you end up in Texas? How did how did you get from Baltimore to Texas?

SPEAKER_00 17:19

Um, oh, by way of Rhode Island, California, Connecticut, Arizona, then Texas. Okay, all right. So Rick's career, Rick's career took us to all those places.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

Oh, that's right. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

Yeah, he was special investigation, so they moved him where the needs were, and of course, ports of entry like Boston and LA, all of those places were where they needed him. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 17:51

Oh, that's fantastic. And then you started SBI, you said in 19 uh two SBI, I started in 2002. 2002, okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:01

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 18:02

And and we were talking about this before we started the interview, but you and I, I I was as I said in the introduction, I don't ever remember not knowing you, but I I think I first we we first came in contact because uh you were you were kind of my conference buddy at the old ASIS conferences.

SPEAKER_00 18:21

Yes, that's right. That's right. Probably in the late 80s, I would say, right? Or early 90s, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 18:29

Yeah, or maybe late 90s, yeah. Yeah. But those were the days for I mean, for people that aren't familiar with it, ASIS used to be as big of a place for background screeners to have booths and be involved as as Sherm. And that nowadays it's it's not on, you know, it's completely changed. But tell us a little bit about that, your your involvement with ASIS.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

Um, ASIS was really important to me back then because I wanted to learn as much as I could. And I was starting that new company that I started in '95, I think it was, from the ground up. And so it was important to get feedback and to have mentors that were there. And so it really helped being there and meeting so many different people. I became a member on the PPIMC Council, which was Personal Information and Privacy Management Council. And over the years I got more involved, more involved, and eventually I was the chair. And then there came a point where the 11 members on that council and myself, we actually uh produced the first pre-employment screening guidelines that ASIS published. I used to hand it out to every client I possibly could back then for, you know, trying to beat out those big guys.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

I would say, oh, but I did this.

SPEAKER_02 19:54

And you were kind enough to invite me to be on that committee and uh remember all those phone calls on version one and then a later date. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

A great, a great committee. I really enjoyed being on that. And and we knew there needed to be an organization. We knew that that ASIS was not going to be the answer. And of course, that's when an APBS started, which was just perfect. Yeah, it was needed the structure, the organization, the oversight. That was important. We needed that.

SPEAKER_02 20:26

And the guidelines that came out of ASIS and the committee headed actually I I predates NAPBS and accreditation. It was kind of sort of sort of the first documentation on on standards and procedures and best practices for background screening.

SPEAKER_00 20:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 20:42

Yeah, that was that was a while ago. So you were one of the and you were one of the founding members of NAPBS, and you were you were there at the very first conference in Arizona and and been there involved ever since.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

Yes, with a brief little stall. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 20:57

Okay, and we'll we'll get that in a little while. But boy, what a what a fantastic, you know, fantastic. And no, we just also just hit the tip of the iceberg. Otherwise, it's not your not not the you know the full the full 500-page biography, but but what an interesting path you've taken. I mean, it's fantastic. I just love the fact that at 21 you were already an entrepreneur and you had 21 typists working for you. That's just blowing my mind.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

My dad would go to the BP gas station and brag about me like crazy to all his friends. My parents were much older when they had me, they were in their 50s, and so he was retired before while I was in high school. And so he would go down there and sit with all his buddies at the gas station, and he just thought it was great. Yeah, it was nice. I'm glad.

SPEAKER_02 21:52

Oh, I can see that. I I totally understand. So let's let's go back in time a little bit. Why don't you tell us or share with us? Some of the mentors or early influencers in your career, or some of the people you may want to give a shout out to that uh helped you along?

SPEAKER_00 22:09

That is such an easy question for me, because I would have to say it all started with you les without a doubt. I would read your book and just, gosh, how can I remember what he's saying about this? Barry Nixon. I so enjoyed every conversation I would have with Barry Nixon. Steve Brownstein, he always was so open about everything. And I'm kind of that same person. Like I'm an open book. You can ask me anything, just be ready for me to tell you the truth. And I love that about Steve too. I think in the 90s there were just so many of you that I was able to learn there were not a lot of women in this industry back then. And I mean, I would sit at that ASIS table with all of the council chairs, and there were two women, one in banking and me with the PPIMC. That was it, two of us. And uh it's changed. I mean, so you know, and then I would be remiss if I didn't say, you know, Tim Best. He was important for me because he taught me business. I knew pre-employment screening, but he knew business. And he taught me a lot of things that have, I mean, I am honest to a fault. I make sure we always have a huge cushion. He was big on having a cushion. He was very careful about what you spend your money on. There are things you should and things you need to just say, should I do that? And he taught me a lot of that. And that has come in very important in my career and running the business the way I have. And then my husband, you have to have someone who understands investigations to just be that person that he's like, Patty, you know this. I'm not going to tell you this long story, but I actually met him because my professor at college said, I want you to meet someone. And I was like, Oh, is he old? And Professor Zumbrum says to me, Yes, Patty, everybody's older than you. You're 20 years old. What do you want? And he said, I want you to meet this man. He has the best criminal mind of anyone I've taught in 33 years. And he said, You are going to enjoy talking with him. And so that has always been, I mean, one of the things Tony always says about me, she's like, Oh my gosh, Patty, you and Rick talk things to death. And I think it's kind of true because we do, you know, to have success, I'm glad I have him to have been an officer of, you know, a company and have been an AVP and to have been a VP, that he he was at that high level in big, big Fortune 500 companies, and he taught me a lot. So I just hope that that same thing is happening with all these people I work with. I I just hope that I'm doing that for them, that I'm teaching them. I know sometimes I say, do as I say, not as I do, because I tell them the right way. It doesn't mean every single time I'm yeah, but but I'm I'm hoping that I do that with them, that I make them have the same passion about this industry that I have had, you know, for so long.

SPEAKER_02 26:02

Well, that's a fantastic testament to your to your leadership that you're trying to give back the same mentorship that you received. Well, obviously you've been very successful in everything you've done, and we all learned lots of lessons along the way. But is there an early lesson that pops to mind that you'd like to share that?

SPEAKER_00 26:20

Maybe about I would say I hire a lot of c college students, a lot. There was a time when we had 82 people at pre-screen America. I would say all but about five of them. I hired them as juniors or seniors in the criminal justice program, and I mentored and kept them for the 10 years I was there. Amanda was one of them. So is Ray, two of the people that are working for me. Ray has been with me even a few years longer than Amanda, and they were in college, and we gave them that opportunity and said, stay with us, you know, let us take care of you, learn about this industry. So I would say, don't forget about those young people. It we don't always have to hire experienced people. I bring people in right now. I have four interns that are high school students that graduated. They are doing marvelous.

SPEAKER_03 27:21

They are wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

And they have put a breath of fresh air in our office. I mean, they're like, Do you have any more work? Do you have anything else we can do? I mean, they are just energetic. They have all this energy, and it has made a difference the last seven, eight months since we brought them in. I think treat your staff well. There's the big lesson. I started out only being able to maybe remote reward them, give them a decent pay, um, surprise them once in a while, buy lunches once in a while, have fruits and snacks every Monday that are fresh for everybody. And then we got to the point, Les, that we were able to provide our managers with company cars. We give car allowances to ones that don't want that. We help with down payments when people have been with us a certain amount of time. We take them on vacations. Anybody in my company can come here to have a vacation with us here in in Alabama. Just tell me. They know that. And lots of them have already done it. We we have done just amazing things with them, and we take our seniors on vacation. All the senior management came out here last year in May. March, March. And then the year before, I think we went to Galveston, spent a few, three, four days at a beach house. We tried to get them out a bit and and let them know it's not just work. We don't have to just work all the time. And it's worked, it's worked for us.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

Well, there's so many valuable lessons there, you know, from finding the right people, and it and even giving people their first chance and cultivating them and training them right. And all I mean, it's a big circle that all works out for everybody. It does. It's just amazing. Wow. Well, that's been fantastic. So, with all the success you've had, Patty, you know, frankly, you know, it could have gone in lots of different directions and and pretty much have done anything, but you've obviously stayed in pre-employment, the background screening world. What attracts you to it? What why has that become the place where you you've put your energy and your time and and and business passion?

SPEAKER_00 29:42

I think I'm a fixer. I like fixing problems. Give me, you know, I think it's the reason I've built so many houses, people shy away from it, but I love fixing things and and making things right. In October, after the conference, Amanda and I got stuck at the airport for hours and hours and hours. We sat there, we had a problem that we needed to address. And I said, let's get out our laptops, let's work on this. And in those four or five hours, we fixed a huge issue that it hadn't reared its ugly head yet, but it was coming. We knew there were going to be things that happen because of how the industry's changing and that we needed to prep and change some things. And we sat there and came up with a whole new process with how we were going to handle our quality audits. And we came back in the office and within five days we implemented and it's working awesome. We are so I think it's just fixing, I think it's developing those relationships that my clients, when I call them up and I'm real excited about something, they get excited too.

SPEAKER_02 31:08

And so for you, the screen industry has been a playground to find problems to fix and to help people and connect and help people grow. And it's all worked out for you.

SPEAKER_00 31:19

It has. And I always say to the staff, we have to meet people where they're at. So not everybody's in the same place, not everybody can do what everybody else can just because they went to the same school, got the same degree, or grew up in the same town. We have to meet our staff, our clients, everybody. We have to meet them where they're at. And we can adjust. I'm flexible and and I'm kind of the wild card. That's what they say in the office, because I'll change. You know, if this is what you need, okay, we can change. We can make that a happen. I don't have strict rules about and what is it my HR person used to say, Patty, you're not black and white about HR stuff. You're kind of gray. And I'm like, I am kind of gray, but I can be gray if I want to help this person, I can do it. I'm not gonna have, you know, where you say, Oh, but the policy says, Well, yeah, but I wrote the policy. Right.

SPEAKER_02 32:29

That's right. She who writes it can can change it if there's a if there's a need for it. It's fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 32:36

That's right. You have to change where the needs are.

SPEAKER_02 32:39

I mean, this has just been a remarkably fun discussion, and and you know, it's only the tip of the iceberg, but uh but in all the things you talked about and uh and all the things you've done, is there a a proud moment or accomplishment or achievement that I'm sure there's lots of them, but that that sort of stands out as something that really brings a smile to your face when you think of it?

SPEAKER_00 33:02

I think that the loyalty that my staff have and how long they've been with me, and the fact that without them I would not have come back to work after we lost our son, if they would not have shown up day after day on my doorstep, if they would not have taken care of everything they could, knowing I couldn't, I couldn't talk to clients, I couldn't talk to researchers. It was awful, it was awful. And I feel bad about that time because I was not a good business person. I had the best bank in the whole world that took care of us, they made sure we were okay. And there were times Tony or Aubrey would call and I would just say, do what you have to do. I mean, just do what you have to do because I just didn't have the space to do what needed to be done. And then you wind up with people that worked for me years before out of college. They show up at the office and they say, We took two weeks off and we were getting your business back going. You have one of my son's best friends who says, Patty, I'm gonna make sales calls for you while I'm in college. I'm going to Pepperdine, I have time. Let me make some sales calls for you. You have all these people who are trying to help you and get you back, and I'm grateful for that. You know, I've I've definitely told them multiple times they will never have to worry about me not being there for them.

SPEAKER_02 34:46

That's a remarkable story. So that is a proud moment to think that when you when you you when you needed help, you you had laid a foundation and and and it it it it worked out for you.

SPEAKER_00 34:57

People came back for you. Definitely, definitely.

SPEAKER_02 35:01

And I think you also mentioned before we we started the podcast that you you know on a different note, not as profound maybe, but that your work at ASIS and in producing the uh the first basically screen uh document on background checks was something else that you're very proud of.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

You look back on I am that that was important to me. It was because I knew there needed to be something, there were no guidelines, there was nothing, and so it was good, and I mean, I'm obviously proud of you know a successful marriage. I'm proud of, you know, owning three companies over the course of my career that were successful, you know, with the exception of a blip um you know, that occurred. And and I mean, that's we came back from it with you know, with the loyalty and the kindness of others, we came back from it. So, and the business is good now. You know, look at Tony, she's been with me 31 years, 31 years since she was 15. Wow, it's crazy, right? It's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 36:13

Well, you have a lot to be proud of and and and a lot to be congratulated on. So that's absolutely fantastic. I mean, I remember the SIS committee, I may have mentioned that, I mean, just the number of calls we were on and drafting and redrafting and and and spending time on on is this the right word, is this exactly written right, and all the nuances, and it was uh yeah, you led a team that I think it was a Herculean effort, you know, and it was it was really quite uh you know you know quite a big deal. It was the very first thing ever written about it. And uh and I mean before I wrote my book, I think it was uh the first thing out there.

SPEAKER_00 36:47

I think it was around that time. It it was around then, yes.

SPEAKER_02 36:50

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 36:52

I still have your book on my bookshelf in the office. I do, I do, I do. Oh, well that's very kind of I still have the big red BRB book too, though.

SPEAKER_02 37:03

I still have all those all all of Mike's BRB books, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 37:07

Yes, Mike Sankey, oh my gosh, just you know, the the book. Thank you for the book and for such a contribution.

SPEAKER_02 37:15

Um we're we're doing a show. I'll I'll pitch that as long as we're about about Mike sometime later this year. So that will that'll be I I think something that people I hope will enjoy. Well, so we talked about PBSA a little bit. You you've been involved, you're you were there at the beginning, and you know, there was times like everybody took time off and came back and whatever, but you were there at the very beginning. What how how has PBSA influenced your career?

SPEAKER_00 37:42

I think without that structure, without the relationships, I I truly don't know that I would have come back less, because the thing I miss most in those four or five years of not being there was not being there, was not learning, not going to the sessions, not seeing people like Jason Morris or Kevin Bachman, not seeing you, not seeing Steve. I missed all that. I missed it. Kim Curry, I mean, a friend forever. It was just difficult because this was in a business I've always been so passionate about. Everybody was moving on without me.

SPEAKER_02 38:26

Um but you jumped back in, you're you're you're back.

SPEAKER_00 38:30

I thanks to Andrew. I I'm going to give Andrew all the accolades for that. When I came back in Denver, when I walked into Denver, he was one of the first people I saw. I think it was Denver, and I just, oh my gosh, I just spoke. And he was like, You've got this, we've got this.

SPEAKER_02 38:52

He said, And that's and and for those of you that don't know, it's Andrew Cashman, who actually was a guest on our program earlier as part of a panel of innovators, and he was uh a wonderful guest. So and that's a great story.

SPEAKER_00 39:05

He is just a he's a pusher, he's a pusher, and he helps me be better because of his knowledge, and he he knows everyone, you know, and like I said, and we wouldn't have had our booth. I've never had a booth less, not in all the years. I never did a booth, and he talked me into a double booth.

SPEAKER_01 39:31

So don't think that he's not a salesperson. He might tell you operations, but he's sales.

SPEAKER_02 39:38

No, that's that's great. So, Patty, we're gonna we're going to fast forward now a little bit. Um, I want to get us in under the time limit here, but let's let's pivot uh completely away from background screening. We're not gonna talk about background screening anymore. Tell us what you do outside of screening, your hobbies, your interests, what do you like to do for fun? I loved your story about about the the ice cream and coffee bar in in in that little town of Texas. But what do you do that people may not really know about?

SPEAKER_00 40:07

Um I travel as much as I can with Ray. We have lots of friends that have either moved to different countries or like I told you, the foreign exchange students I know from 40 years ago, Felix and Antoine, we go to visit them in Paris at least once a year, sometimes twice, and they'll come over here. We ride bikes. My husband's an avid bike rider, and I love riding bikes with him. Here in Alabama, we have 28 miles of beautiful nature trails right behind us that we can jump on the trail and ride, and we enjoy that. And then before that, boating. I was a boater for pretty much my whole life. Started out with whitewater kayaking and canoeing, and then went to sailboating, and then went to a houseboat with water skiing and all that, and then we wound up with a trawler for 10 years, and we went that's great. We went up and down the east coast and went over to Bahamas, so we became quite the avid boaters, and we did that for almost nine, 10 years. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:22

Wow. You you you uh in the dictionary under multifaceted, there should be a picture of you with all the things you do. That's that that's fantastic. Are you still boating now? You saw the trawler?

SPEAKER_00 41:33

We actually sold the boat about five years ago because we had come back from a trip, and I'll tell you a short little story. We saw Kim Curry in Hollywood, Florida. She was there, and we were heading up to the eastern shore, and we had a really nice visit. I hadn't seen her. It was during that period of time where I was kind of out of the industry, and we spent a wonderful evening having dinner and talking about the business and all the people. And it was the end of the night, and we were hugging and we were like, Oh gosh, Kim, I'm gonna miss you. And she's like, Patty, and she goes, Well, where are you gonna be tomorrow? And I said, Oh, I think we're gonna be up around Deerfield Beach. And she goes, That's like 20 miles. She said, I'll drive up there and I'll come see you. So she drove up the next day. I said, Well, you know, we only go seven miles an hour, so we don't go far, and we like to see different things, and so she came up and saw us the next night. But no, we we made a mistake when we were coming back from the Bahamas, and we knew it meant it was time. It was time, it's kind of like driving a car. You have to know when it's time, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:53

Right, okay, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:55

It was time for us to stop with the boating. So okay.

SPEAKER_02 42:59

Well, but you got 28 miles of presumably flat bicycle trails.

SPEAKER_00 43:03

We do, and grandkids. I love being with the grandkids. I do anything to be with them and um just how many grandkids?

SPEAKER_02 43:12

Congratulations.

SPEAKER_00 43:13

Yeah, how many?

SPEAKER_02 43:14

How many grandkids?

SPEAKER_00 43:16

Um, three, four, five, six. Oh, wow, fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 43:21

So you so you're basically Christmas shopping all year.

SPEAKER_00 43:24

Yes, and I love it. I love it. It's my favorite thing to do. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 43:29

Oh, that's that's that's wonderful. That's fun.

SPEAKER_00 43:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:33

Well, as we come down the final stretch here, let me ask you, what what would be, and then we ask everyone the same question, a a fun fact about Patty McGowan that people wouldn't know or suspect. And and once they hear about it, they they may tease you unmercifully at at conferences, so you have to be prepared for that. But what what is something unsuspecting about you that that's that's been hidden?

SPEAKER_00 43:57

About, let's see, Rick. Rick will be eight. So ten years ago when he was 70, he got this idea for us to go bobsledding in St. Marit. And they were offering to tourists that you could go on the Olympics bobsled run. So we thought we thought last it was the tourist run. So after going down the mountain in what was it, 70 seconds at four and five G's, slamming everywhere, wound up with a severe concussion, bruises all over my body. Yeah. Yep. That's something people would never believe that Rick and I did. And we did it separate. He hit his run went much better than mine. My guys were trying to beat a record. And so they didn't take me on the tourist run.

SPEAKER_02 45:04

So you did the Olympic run at St. Moritz on the bobsled run.

SPEAKER_00 45:10

I did. I did 70 seconds. Yep. Of sheer terror.

SPEAKER_02 45:16

All right. That is. Well, I would say that is amazing.

SPEAKER_00 45:23

I got a diploma though, saying that I did it, and that would beat a record. Yep. I don't think that I care. But yep. Yeah. And they're still doing it. For those of you out there that want to do it, they're still doing it.

SPEAKER_02 45:43

For those of you that are willing to risk life and limb.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 45:47

And God knows what.

SPEAKER_03 45:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:50

Oh, that's that's fantastic. Well, that is a fun fact. I never would have guessed.

SPEAKER_03 45:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:56

Didn't even know that was possible. And and and and and sometimes, you know, my my favorite old saying is better you than me. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:06

It was fun. Um I'm not unhappy I did it. It was just, it was definitely, we didn't think it was going to be that. That's the way they sold it to you. But it was that.

SPEAKER_02 46:18

But but let me guess, you're not going to do it again.

SPEAKER_00 46:21

Nope, never. No, no. And I would not recommend anybody but younger people do it because it it's it's definitely it was a lot.

SPEAKER_02 46:33

Wow. Well, let's move on from that to a couple of final questions here. Given everything that you described and all your experiences and your adventures and and the you know all the things you've done, what would be your advice to, and and you've given advice to a lot of people in the industry, but to people you have that you haven't talked to, what would be your advice to someone who's entering the profession or starting off, or maybe they've been in it for a few years and but they're not at the management team level yet? What would be your your gem that you would want to uh share with them?

SPEAKER_00 47:06

I would say do things the right way. Find a place you're happy. When we hire people, we give them time to find where they belong. They may not like searches, they may not like hits, they may love QA. Find the place that you really like because you're there for eight hours or more a day. Come on, you have to enjoy what you're doing. And so find an employer that cares about that too, um, that wants to give you that feel good every day at the end of the day that, oh my gosh, I did this and it was good, and everybody liked it and it was right. And, you know, yeah, of course, everybody's gonna have fails, they happen, human error, right? But I think if you do things the right way and you try to teach good practices, I think that those errors are few and far in between in the million, two million, three million records you do, they're few and far in between.

SPEAKER_02 48:16

Yeah, that's the odd thing about the screening industry. We we do millions of records, and you you can do millions of records right, but boy, you just get one wrong for some odd reason, and oh boy, you know, people people get mad. It's like, well, what about the three million we just before that we just did perfectly?

SPEAKER_00 48:36

And it hurts your feelings because you're thinking how hard you work to try and do that for them, and and you're right, it's so few and far in between, but boy, yeah, they hurt when you when there's an error, it hurts.

SPEAKER_02 48:54

Yeah, and then you go back and and do a a reconstruction or an autopsy, and you know, there's usually some good reason for it, yeah, or so or sometimes you may error. Sometimes mistakes just happen, you know, something is but uh yeah, it it's it's interesting industry. Unfortunately, the standard is not perfection, the standard is is is process that re reasonable procedures for the maximum possible accuracy. Well, that's fantastic. So I I think we we covered everything. Is there anything that we left out that you wanted to add that uh that I didn't ask you or to give you time to talk about?

SPEAKER_00 49:26

No, I I think this is great to be able to get to know people this way. I have loved watching the podcasts and people who I've known for years and then hearing some of the different things about them and their stories. And I mean, Nick Fishman, I've known him for quite a while, and I really enjoyed. Um he was just so interactive with it, and and I like that. And Kim Curry, the direction she's taken, just to name a few. I know there's so many out there, but I've really enjoyed having that.

SPEAKER_02 50:01

Okay, and Patty, we were just finishing up, and so just wanted to give you uh an opportunity just to add or any more, any last concluding remarks about your time in the industry and how you feel about it, or what do you want to say?

SPEAKER_00 50:14

I guess the biggest thing for me is I think this podcast is just wonderful. It gives all of us without the stressor of being at the conferences speaking or attendees or running a booth or trying to sell to everybody that walks by. It gives us a chance just to enjoy. And I get to hear about all of their lives and get to know them a little bit better, and I think that's important. I wish for everybody to have such a good relationship with this industry and just have the happiness that I've had in doing this for going on 41 years and 42 years, something like that. Way too long. It's important. You have to be happy. And I've been happy in my career, and I think that's made a complete difference in how I have felt about my family, my friends, my life, everything. So I wish that for everybody else. I hope that they find that.

SPEAKER_02 51:16

Well, Patty, it's been a pleasure talking to you, ladies and gentlemen. We have spent this time talking with my good friend, and I must say, an industry icon and a fascinating person who I learned so much more about than I than than I than I knew before, Patty McGowan. Patty, it's been a pleasure having you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 51:32

Thank you, Les, so much. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 51:40

All right, that was yet another wonderful conversation with a background screening pro. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to hit subscribe so you never miss an update. And hey, if you got a moment, we'd love for you to leave us a review. It really helps get the word out. For more info or to catch up on past episodes, or to make suggestions, or to suggest possible future guests, head over to our website. Once again, this is your host, Les Rosen, and it's been a pleasure to bring you another episode. See you on the next episode. Thanks.