Discover Unique Italian Wines with Enzo Schiano

Summary

In this episode, Laurie Forster and Enzo Schiano delve into the world of Italian wine, exploring its rich cultural heritage, the complexities of winemaking, and the importance of making wine accessible and enjoyable. They discuss unique Italian wines, the significance of wine pairings, and the Italian wine classification system. They discuss the value of lesser-known Italian varietals and experiential wine tasting experiences, and offers insights into food pairings that enhance the wines featured.

Takeaways

• Italian wine is a passion for both Laurie and Enzo.
• Lesser-known varietals often provide better value for money compared to well-known wines.
• Quality in wine is not solely determined by classification; personal preference plays a significant role.
• Susumaniello is an ancient Roman grape that has recently gained recognition.
• The Brindisi DOC is an underrated wine region in Italy.
• Pairing wine with food can enhance the overall experience, and rules about red with meat and white with seafood can be flexible.

Wines Tasted

Masca del Tacco Susumaniello, Puglia, Italy

Corte Ottone Brindisi DOC, Puglia, Italy

Enzo's Insta Page: https://www.instagram.com/tasting_wine_with_enzo/

Info on the Virtual Reality Tasting Click Here

Transcript

Laurie Forster (00:01.004)

All right Enzo, welcome to The Sipping Point. I'm super excited tonight because, and I know I'm not supposed to have favorites, but Italian wine is one of my favorites. Let's say that so I don't get any hate mail. But of course. So I'm really excited because you brought two very unique and rare wines here. So I'm excited to learn about them. But I know you have a passion for wine like I do and also a passion for making it fun.

Enzo (00:08.177)

you

Enzo (00:13.829)

Thank you for having me.

Enzo (00:23.652)

Absolutely.

Laurie Forster (00:29.728)

and approachable, not getting so bogged down in the complications. Even though Italy is like 20 separate regions and there's so much to learn, what really brought this passion to you and how did you kind of get this role as the wine slayer? I love that title. Tell us a little bit about your background.

Enzo (00:50.034)

So yes, my family obviously has a long history in the wine world. My grandfather was actually a carretiere and he was the first to restart the route after the war between Napoli and Puglia through the Canosa route. carretiere back in the day was the guy that was with his horse and carriage took the wine from

Laurie Forster (01:08.43)

Okay?

Enzo (01:16.882)

the rural areas where, you the farms where we were making the wine to the cities or other regions, the first, you know, transportation of sort. Fast forward 50 years, now we call that modern day distribution. But back in the day, it was just a guy, a carriage and his horse. If you're a big distributor, you had two horses, but that was it. And so he restarted that route after the war. My family always made wine from my grandfather. His...

Laurie Forster (01:34.958)

Mm.

Enzo (01:45.244)

brothers actually, so my father's uncles were some of the most renowned cantieri, which would be the vintner of the Campania region for both their own cantinas and other cantinas of the area. My grandfather, he was actually also transporting a lot of even very important, what today we would call bigger labels, but you know, back in the day, not necessarily they were.

Laurie Forster (02:01.902)

That's awesome.

Enzo (02:12.634)

a bunch of canteenas that were just starting out. So it starts, you know, deeply rooted. I grew up in Italy where we have a different approach to wine than in the United States. I'm not saying good or bad or anything. It's just a different cultural approach. Sometimes I tell people, you know, first time I tried wine, I was probably five and they look at me like I had, you know, three heads and it's like, wait, what, what you say? It's like, it's, it's a different cultural approach. Here, obviously, you you have the

Laurie Forster (02:38.477)

Yes.

Enzo (02:41.69)

legal drinking age of 21. In Italy, it's pretty standard if you're at a restaurant with your family, even though there is a legal drinking age, which is 18. It's pretty norm standard accepted that if you're with your family, and let's say you're 15 or 16, and ask for a glass of wine, you won't get any pushback or anything like that. Again, I'm not judging I'm not saying good or bad. It's just very different, very different cultural approach. So

Laurie Forster (02:51.842)

Okay.

Laurie Forster (03:07.65)

Yes, it's cultural.

Enzo (03:11.396)

Obviously was introduced to the of wines from when I was a kid. I always loved the way that my grandfather and my father organized the Cantina in the land. I was always, you know, really attracted by what went behind it, like the behind the scenes. Everybody always sees, you know, the bottle of wine, but there's so, so much that goes into it behind that is

either directly winemaking or a lot of things that are not even directly winemaking. So I was always attracted to that. I loved helping out as a kid. Poor area of Italy, not necessarily all the money in the world. And before like the big machineries came along, you started off with a regular gravity press. So you're a kid, you want to help out, you know, you see your dad doing it. So you go there, and you're just cranking that press, you know, back and forth, back and forth, you know.

Laurie Forster (04:06.23)

Nice.

Enzo (04:08.274)

Or when you're bottling today, you have beautiful automated bottlers back in the day To be honest actually I wouldn't say back in there because my family still use it you would use a gravity drop bottler, which we would call the big kitty Excuse me for the language, but because it resembled kind of like a cow's belly a female cows because you would put all the bottles on the bottom and

by the force of gravity, the liquid, the wine would drop in. There was a little mechanism that would go float. As soon as it arrived to level, it would stop and then you would take them out. Six bottles at a time, but you had to be manually there to actually do it. It's always been a passion. And then I moved here to the States six years ago.

Laurie Forster (04:52.93)

Wow, so you really were hands on from a young age on the winemaking front.

Laurie Forster (05:03.639)

Okay.

Enzo (05:03.698)

And fast forward six years, here we are. I collaborate with Impero Wines exclusively. And we like to import and distribute unique Italian wines, or as I like to say, wines that we actually drink back home and not wines that marketing tells you we drink and we have no idea they even exist. And unfortunately, that is the grand majority of Italian wines here on the American market. So...

Laurie Forster (05:23.808)

Yeah.

Enzo (05:29.99)

We try to do something about that. We're trying to bridge that gap. So it's a huge job. It's very complicated. But we're crazy Italian guys. We're stubborn. And so we're taking on the task. But we want to do it in a fun, different way. We strongly believe that wine shouldn't be complicated. Although wine is very complex, some may argue that wine is the most complex thing on Earth.

Laurie Forster (05:42.286)

I love that. What? Yes.

Enzo (05:59.504)

second only to women and that's a compliment to women by the way, but it shouldn't be complicated. So we like to do fun events, different things to introduce and showcase wine in a very fun approachable way. We like to stay away from a lot of terminology and descriptors that nowadays, you go on social media or YouTube and you see these incredible world renowned professionals and don't get me wrong, I think they're incredible professionals, but.

Laurie Forster (06:07.148)

Yes.

Enzo (06:26.436)

it's gotten out of control. Like they're using descriptors that are so out of touch with everyday modern world. You know, tastes like horseback saddle or flowers from Mount Kilimanjaro. A pack of balls from a tennis cat. Like what does what does that mean? Like, you know, it's gotten out of control. So we like to try to do a different spin on it, a different twist, really bring it like down to earth as much as you can.

Laurie Forster (06:28.3)

Yeah.

Laurie Forster (06:36.238)

Babbling Brook. It smells like a babbling brook. Okay.

Right, tennis balls, yes.

Laurie Forster (06:51.639)

I love that.

Enzo (06:55.681)

Laurie Forster (06:55.917)

But we're on the same level with that, so I'm so glad that we connected and you're here and.

You know, the listeners, they've been listening to the show for a while, they know I often will say, if you can't pronounce it, you should be drinking it. And so I was so excited when you brought two really unique things here that I have to say, I don't think I've ever tasted either one of these after 20 years of being in the business. You know, cause I've kind of, you know, have to know a little bit of everything from wines all over the world. Whereas you've got this deep dive on the Italian front. Both of these are from the

Enzo (07:08.815)

I love it. I love it.

Laurie Forster (07:31.856)

region, which is the heel of the boot, if you think of Italy as a boot. But I think you wanted to start with this wine, which first of all, I know we shouldn't care about the packaging, but this is gorgeous. Okay. With the seal and the little, you know, cord there. Tell us a little bit about what we're going to taste here.

Enzo (07:33.062)

They are. Today both of them are from Puglia.

Enzo (07:40.85)

you

Thank you.

Enzo (07:52.53)

So this is something really cool and unique that is one of my personal opinion, obviously, the most underrated DOCs of Italy. Now keep in mind, Italy to this day has about roughly 330 different DOCs. This is the Brindisi Doc. It's hardly ever found in the United States. It's basically the Brindisi Doc, a Negra Maro blend. Now this specific

Laurie Forster (08:20.364)

Okay.

Enzo (08:21.522)

bottle from Corte Ottone, lovely winery from Puglia. It's actually controlled by Botter, a very important name of Italian winemaking and most importantly of bringing authentic Italian wines to the rest of the world. That's why we love working with them as well. It's specifically Negramaro, Sangioese and Malvasia Nera.

Laurie Forster (08:48.077)

Okay.

Enzo (08:50.96)

It's like drinking a hug. It's super easy. Well, there you go. we're no horseback saddle, none of that. No, right off the nose. So I see you started as well. very approachable already on the bouquet. You get those notes that are typical, I believe from Puglia because keep in mind Puglia, like you said, we're the heel. It's

Laurie Forster (08:52.846)

Ooh, see now that's a great descriptor right there.

Laurie Forster (08:59.523)

Yeah, thank you.

Enzo (09:15.928)

a land where we don't get a lot of rain. Generically speaking, we don't get a lot of rain in southern Italy. I really learned about the four seasons when I moved here to America, like this whole rain snow thing in the same week, really bad. But so you have like this really dried out, rich, intense soil under the Puglia sun. Now I know everybody here talks about under the Tuscan sun, but I think that's like a little bit more marketing that got into it. Like the real

Laurie Forster (09:23.95)

sorry.

Laurie Forster (09:34.615)

Yes.

Laurie Forster (09:40.12)

Yeah.

Laurie Forster (09:43.797)

Absolutely.

Enzo (09:44.592)

The real son we have like in Southern Italy Campania, Puglia, Sicily. And so you can get those really lovely intense notes. Most of them, which come from the Negramaro. In Puglia, Ipugliese, which is the people from Puglia, they like to tell a joke there, which is not very accurate, but they say it on purpose to, I think they want to try to get a point across. They say Negramaro is the California cab for Italians. Now.

Laurie Forster (10:14.713)

interesting.

Enzo (10:14.746)

While they're completely different as grapes, I think what they're trying to say is, know how here like there's a lot of passion and people really like enjoy a lot of these big, very bold California cabs are very much so easily everyday drinkers. You have some that are very price approachable. And so you can have their huge mass produced wines, but you have on everyday tables and they can I'm out in Southern Italy, especially in Boia is kind of like that.

Laurie Forster (10:29.133)

Yes.

Enzo (10:42.962)

It's an everyday easy to drink wine. It's bigger. It's not as big necessarily as a California cab, but the San Jose that's really where that helps out a little bit. It gives it a little bit more body on that bite. You kind of like realize, I'm sorry, I'm going to take my first sip as well.

Laurie Forster (10:55.469)

Right.

Laurie Forster (10:59.691)

Yeah, sorry. While you were speaking, I took the liberty. Lovely.

Enzo (11:02.734)

I know where it is outside.

The bite already you get right away the idea that you're going to drink something important, something that's elegant. And this is where it kind of like the first to like some of those California wines. When you drink one of those big, bold California cabs, I feel like after a bottle, I've been beaten up or I've been mugged on the street. This guy.

Laurie Forster (11:12.396)

Yes.

Laurie Forster (11:23.136)

Yeah, the tannin is here, but it's not like you said, punching you in the face. It's very elegant. Yeah.

Enzo (11:28.386)

It's not all about punching the face and it's very elegant and it's oriented more towards the back palate. So the finish of the wine, it gives out that elegant. The Malvazia Negra, very small percentage of it has one job to bring it all together, to smooth it out, give it a little bit of that aromatics. Now, lot of people sometimes confuse because they know or familiar with Malvazia in general. There's about

Laurie Forster (11:33.998)

Mm-hmm.

Laurie Forster (11:44.043)

Okay.

Enzo (11:55.954)

20 different malvasias. Now usually it gets misinterpreted and we say malvasia a lot here, but it's always usually kind of like two words, malvasia di candio. This is malvasia nera. It kind of like specifically like indicates which malvasia it is. It's not a sweet grape, but it is a very approachable, well-rounded, down-to-earth, easy grape that helps in the blend, specifically of the San Joes and the Negroamaro.

Laurie Forster (12:11.853)

Yes.

Enzo (12:24.998)

Sanjo Eze, you know, he's a big guy. He brings a lot of attitude to the table. The negroamaro has a little bit of that boldness to it. So the malvasia kind of like just swirls it all together and makes that finish really, really so elegant. I liked it. I like to say, I like to say it's like drinking a hug because right off the bat, you know, I feel it's very elegant, very warm. It's like a friend, you know, it's a

Laurie Forster (12:25.164)

Okay.

Laurie Forster (12:30.647)

Right.

Laurie Forster (12:38.52)

So maybe it's like a bear hug. And somebody gives you a big bear hug. Yes.

Enzo (12:54.116)

It doesn't want to betray me in the glass. For pairing wise, I did an event right before Christmas and I call this my prime rib wine. so it'll go with generically, obviously there are meats. It's great, you know, from your shark jewelry blend boards for appetizers all the way to your bigger meats. I wouldn't necessarily do it with a super big protein on its own.

Laurie Forster (12:56.333)

Right.

Laurie Forster (13:04.719)

nice.

Enzo (13:23.142)

but like a nice little prime rib, gently roasted, where you also have a little bit of the sauce or the juices that are coming that are essential part of the dish. It'll work really, really nice with it.

Laurie Forster (13:23.608)

Okay.

Laurie Forster (13:33.836)

Right. And you could do with some white meats too, right? Like we love a pork tenderloin here.

Enzo (13:38.914)

I, we, we do too in Italy, although there's one white meat where we really disagree cultural wise, which is rabbit.

Laurie Forster (13:46.263)

Okay.

Okay, no, I've had some great rabbit ragu in Italy and I have no problem with it. Yes.

Enzo (13:52.146)

We love rabbit. I know it's not necessarily everybody's cup of tea, but it's lovely, especially if you do like rabbit cacciatore, which would pretty much gave birth to, there's a lot of like Italian American places here that will do the dish, chicken cacciatore. That actually kind of like came into play because it's in the traditional Italian dish, no rabbit. Rabbit doesn't really play well here with the restaurant. So they took a spin and they sub that with chicken.

Laurie Forster (13:59.16)

Yes.

Laurie Forster (14:04.332)

Okay.

Laurie Forster (14:18.413)

Yes.

Enzo (14:21.068)

I'm not saying that it wouldn't do good with chicken, like pairing rabbit cacciatore with the glass of the brindisi rosso, absolutely amazing. It's also a very lovely meditation wine, or as I like to call it, couch wine.

Laurie Forster (14:34.671)

I was just gonna say that the Italians, it makes it sound good. I will often say, well, you know, this is great with a meal, but maybe not your porch pounder. But the meditation wine, you know, like is a wine you just might have without food is the way I understood it when they, cause they would kind of make fun of us cause we would drink like a Barolo after dinner and they're like, no, like this is such a fancy wine. Why are you drinking it at the end of the night? But they, many of the producers would just.

Enzo (14:44.368)

No.

Enzo (14:51.839)

Absolutely.

Laurie Forster (15:04.845)

their wines as a meditation wine, which is really interesting.

Enzo (15:07.602)

It is. My personal take on it here, I like to call it couch wine. The concept is exactly the same. You're on your couch, your Netflix is on, you're watching something nice, just have a nice glass, easy to drink. But the whole point is, it's going to be easy to drink even on the couch. It's not going to knock you out. it's not that, again, punch in the face, just sit back, relax.

Laurie Forster (15:14.926)

Everybody gets that, yeah.

Laurie Forster (15:30.701)

Yeah.

Laurie Forster (15:34.432)

And just to give me an idea of the retail price on this, I know it'll vary based on the store, but in general, around.

Enzo (15:42.078)

it's not a bottle that breaks the bank. It's usually like in the 1899 ish, kind of department under 20. I always like to say, especially the mission, what we do and how we like to do it. You should be able to drink great Italian wine or great wine in general. That should never be two things. It should never be complicated. It should never be, super expensive. I'm not saying that there's not great expensive wines. Of course there are.

Laurie Forster (15:45.676)

Okay.

Perfect. Under 20. People love that. Yeah.

Enzo (16:12.166)

but that shouldn't be like threshold. That shouldn't be the standard. able to great drink a great bottle of wine that doesn't break the bank. And again, not complicated. This wine, it's not complicated. It's like I said, it doesn't portray you. It's very transparent. He tells you exactly what he is, what you're to be drinking that beautiful, lovely finish. And at the end, you're going to want more and it's not going to kick your butt, you know, and knock you out. It's not, it's, it's, it's not a street mugging.

Laurie Forster (16:35.725)

Yes, I think 14 % alcohol when I was looking at the sheet. And then one thing I just wanted to backtrack to, just in case people...

Enzo (16:39.975)

Mm-hmm.

Laurie Forster (16:45.579)

aren't aware. So, you know, in Europe, many countries have a classification system for the wines. In Italy, it's the DOC system. Of course, you have your table wines and you have some IGT wines that break the rules. But the two classification systems we often talk about are DOC, which that's you mentioned with this wine, and then the DOCG, which is kind of, you know, the higher of the pyramid, if you will. Yeah. Yes.

Enzo (17:05.404)

So we have the pyramid. I actually, this is an argument that usually gets me in a lot of fights here in the States because somehow, and I actually get why, but American marketing really tried to do a spin on this and they try to spin it as a quality pyramid. Now in Italy, so where we invented it, the Italian government,

Laurie Forster (17:27.447)

Okay.

Enzo (17:35.598)

It is in no form or way actually structured as a quality pyramid. It's actually quite different. It's more intended for quantity, rules and regulations and geographical origin. And that's to protect our product. So in Italy, we are stubborn and very, very proud of our wine. It's unfortunate it's the way it is. It's one of the reasons why so many Italian producers won't export

Laurie Forster (17:41.099)

Okay.

Laurie Forster (17:47.18)

Rules? Yeah. Mmm.

Enzo (18:05.2)

for all the money in the world, it's actually quite often there's incredible little gems and they've been approached by so many entrepreneurs or huge companies or brokerage firms or anybody and it doesn't matter to them. We're very, very proud of our product. So that pyramid kind of like really helps make sure that our product stays intact, unique. doesn't get falsified. It doesn't get cloned in any form or way. And it starts at the top with DOCG.

Laurie Forster (18:06.818)

Mm-hmm.

Enzo (18:34.47)

the origine controllata e garantita, which means of controlled and guaranteed origin. What does it mean? It means that those DOCGs, now we have 77 DOCGs currently in Italy, those DOCGs are regulated in the disciplinare. The disciplinare is, think of it as kind of like this huge rule book, which is sanctioned by the Italian government. And it says all the do's and don'ts, including,

Laurie Forster (18:48.749)

Yep.

Laurie Forster (19:00.396)

Right.

Enzo (19:02.864)

DOCs, DOCGs, IGTs and table wines. And it's going to say a DOCG can be produced in a very specific area, usually very small, with very specific methods harvested in a very specific way. Sometimes it'll go as much as in when it can be harvested and how it can be harvested. It'll say what grapes you can grow. It'll literally give you the entire, like all you can or cannot do. But the major thing is

Laurie Forster (19:11.171)

Right.

Laurie Forster (19:21.464)

Mm-hmm.

Laurie Forster (19:29.485)

Right.

Enzo (19:31.91)

very small area, a whole bunch of rules, DOCG. Then right underneath it, have DOC, the origine controlata, of controlled origin. We lost the G, we lost the guaranteed. Sum it up, little bit bigger area, little bit less rules, a little bit more relaxation. The vintner, the winemaker has a little bit more wiggle room per se. This helps a lot, especially on some of the DOCs, which are blends, like in this case.

Laurie Forster (19:52.578)

Yeah.

Enzo (20:01.074)

It'll give like usually for example, like a goal post range. can, the majority has to be, for example, in this case, the majority has to be Negro Amaro, but it'll say you can use in the blend Malvasia Nera, San Joves, it'll even say you can use actually the Brindisi Doc says you can even use Monte Puccano, but it'll also give you like the goal post ranges of the percentages. So bigger area.

Laurie Forster (20:22.317)

Yes.

That's a great, that is such a great way of explaining it because I do think really even in some of my Psalm training, it is kind of portrayed as a quality, like, okay, this is the lower level of the pyramid, that's your table wine. Although I've been in Italy and had fabulous table wine.

Enzo (20:44.036)

It's our best wine. It's our best wine.

Laurie Forster (20:45.103)

Yeah, so I mean, we're all jealous of that here because you can't go buy a US wine for $7 and get the quality of the wine that I've had for seven euros, you know, over in Italy. Okay, last four. But then you have your IGT, which they get more wiggle room and they can use like weird grapes.

Enzo (20:55.494)

Seven euros, you are shopping in the wrong places. You shouldn't be spending more than three.

Enzo (21:05.234)

I,

Laurie Forster (21:12.59)

Mm-hmm.

Enzo (21:31.694)

after Parker's incredible push on Super Tuscan's because keep in mind, Parker used the term Super Tuscan, I believe first. I love how he used it, describing these rule breakers outside of the County region using these Bordeaux style blends like these crazy Italian nut jobs, but that were making this incredible, beautiful, powerful wines. They weren't classified. What were they? And this was like a huge problem like for the American system. It's like, okay, wait, it's not a DOCG. It's not a DOC. What is it? Table wine?

Laurie Forster (21:35.222)

Yes.

Laurie Forster (21:59.095)

And it's not a table wine. Yeah, right. Yeah.

Enzo (22:00.666)

But what is it? Fast forward, 92, the Italian government comes with IGT. Here's where I think, in my opinion, was kind of like made specifically for this because Indicazione Geografica Tibia, which translates to of typical geographical origin. What does that mean? Absolutely nothing. Where does it come from? Over there. Where does it come from? Somewhere over there. I don't know. It's kind of like it was put there so.

Laurie Forster (22:12.322)

Yes.

Laurie Forster (22:19.138)

I was gonna say, because it's not typical because you're using Cabernet or whatever. Yeah.

Enzo (22:29.552)

to bridge that gap between the DOC and the table line, but also to give like a category where in IGTs is the area where there's kind of like a lot of wiggle room. So usually they tend to be a very vast area. Some of the IGTs, we have a lot of them now. There's about 120 and counting. It's actually the category that moves the most by the Italian government. Sometimes they'll be to a point where the IGT is actually the entire region.

Laurie Forster (22:30.958)

to explain. Yep.

Laurie Forster (22:58.48)

okay. Yeah.

Enzo (22:59.086)

Yeah, they're they're much bigger areas. Much more wiggle room. Usually they'll get some will get into like the blends, for example, and the list like the blending grapes, and it'll be the longest list ever. There'll be like, even like 1520 different grapes and

Laurie Forster (23:13.506)

Yeah. And the thing is you can have good and bad wine in any of the four categories on the pyramid. So it's really about finding, you know, finding someone like yourself or an importer that you really vibe with a store that really can help you because just because it's from, you know, a specific DOC or DOCG for that matter doesn't mean you're going to love every wine that comes out of that region. Yeah.

Enzo (23:20.59)

Absolutely.

Enzo (23:39.026)

100 % because A, it's not a quality pyramid, I was saying. Now, generically speaking, does the pyramid express quality in the DOCGs? Yes. I won't even say as you go up specifically in DOCGs. Why? Because it's so highly regulated to protect itself that chances are there's so much love and passion because the winemakers themselves to put, to jump through all those hoops, they're not going to do it if they're not going to want to like dish out some, something incredible.

Laurie Forster (23:43.661)

Yes.

Laurie Forster (23:49.643)

as you go up.

Laurie Forster (23:57.366)

Okay.

Laurie Forster (24:05.356)

All right.

Enzo (24:09.042)

That said, there are some DOCGs that I think are absolutely, you know, horse poo poo, but it is what it is.

Laurie Forster (24:14.702)

Well, speaking of something incredible, I'm really excited to taste this next wine. So maybe this will be a good segue for us to continue on our DOC talk. But you brought me another wine here and a grape that I have never tried before. So tell us a little bit about what we have with our second.

selection here and I'll put the links to all of these on my website so listeners you can try to search these out wherever you're at.

Enzo (24:38.584)

So this is, yes.

Enzo (24:45.688)

Absolutely. So this is the Susumaniello. So Susumaniello is, I think, the mecca of wines for the wine geeks in the room. And yes, I do think I'm a wine geek. It's an ancient Roman grape. It's one of the three ancient Roman reds. We have tons of literature on it. Most of it is in Latin because of the Romans, obviously. It was one of their grapes of choice. It came

Laurie Forster (24:56.739)

Yes, me too.

Enzo (25:13.41)

after a lot of conquest of the Benizola di Dalmatia, the Dalmatian Peninsula out of modern day Croatia pretty much, because it is a distant cousin of the Primitivo Grape, which also actually came from there and then eventually found its way to the United States and they called it Zinfandel in California. But...

Laurie Forster (25:23.426)

Okay.

Laurie Forster (25:33.324)

And I believe I had a Primitivo from this producer. Do you have that in the market as well? Okay, so I did taste that,

Enzo (25:38.514)

Mm hmm. Yes, yes. Yes. So we actually do import a Primitivo from this producer. The Sussuminello is a distant cousin of the Primitivo. It's an incredible, incredible grape. The name, which is a huge part of the story, actually translates to donkey or little donkey. And because it's a grape with a peculiar nature, it has an incredible high yield on the first year or the first years. But then it

Laurie Forster (25:59.544)

Okay?

Enzo (26:08.294)

dies down drastically. And so that's the problem. And that's why nobody's ever heard of it or very few people have heard of it until recently, because it was considered extinct or so they thought. More than extinct, the truth is it was kind of like purposely forgotten because keep in mind throughout the years, especially medieval times, you're in a region of the world, constant conflicts, money is always a problem. The lands need to produce. This is a grape where it just wasn't making people money. So it's like kind of like

Laurie Forster (26:12.384)

Okay.

Enzo (26:38.13)

purposely forgotten. It was refound by chance after the war. Long story short, took them a long time. They rebuilt the estates. They brought it into the states. They started, you know, producing again, harvesting. The first bottle was only exported and keep in mind for something that exists for more than 2000 years, and this is where the wine you give me like really goes bananas, was only exporting 2001. I think that's like just incredible. This is an incredible expression of a wine.

Laurie Forster (26:39.725)

Right.

Laurie Forster (26:58.231)

Right.

Laurie Forster (27:04.397)

Wow.

Enzo (27:08.368)

because being the cousin of the Primitivo right on the nose and the bite, it's very much so similar. It's big, bold, deep, rich, red fruit palm. But then where it really changes is on the back palate. I like to say it's Puglia Mead's Valpolicella because it reminds me of Valpolicella wines and that's actually how it's harvested and produced. You get that raisiny finish almost a little bit of that like leather silky texture that reminds me a lot of Valpolicella wines. So like to say this is Puglia Mead's Valpolicella.

Laurie Forster (27:16.546)

Yes.

Laurie Forster (27:28.11)

Yes.

Enzo (27:38.45)

This wine is truly majestic, one word majestic. It also has a very unique award. It's the first wine ever that was awarded on the same year, both 99 points and voted best read overall in the Anuato del Vino. No bottle has ever achieved that. Many have done that on separate years, separate vintages. Yes, it's an Italian word from, yes, from Luca Maroni.

Laurie Forster (27:44.214)

It really is gorgeous.

Laurie Forster (27:59.929)

Okay.

Laurie Forster (28:03.618)

And this is an Italian wine rating? Okay. Okay.

Enzo (28:08.21)

Now the point system, we're not necessarily a fan of it. You know, there's that's a whole different conversation, but the best overall, it's done in a completely different way. It's the blind tasting, land right of the Vino. There's a lot of peers involved more than newspapers critiques. It's really cool. It's achieved that in 23 and it just redid it in 24 as well. That's why they proudly put that little stem, that little label.

Laurie Forster (28:16.279)

Right.

Laurie Forster (28:26.124)

nice.

Enzo (28:37.83)

They put the numbers really big because to be honest, for the American market, people like the ratings. But more importantly, if you read around that little circle from the Luca Maroni and you'll see it and you'll see the Cimin' Annuario del Vino, Mior Vino Assoluto, best wine overall. I think that's simply fantastic. Like I said,

Laurie Forster (28:54.529)

wow.

Laurie Forster (28:58.221)

And is this in the same price range as our Brindisi? Okay.

Enzo (29:01.394)

It's a little bit, it's a little bit more expensive. It's still approachable. It's just over 20, usually like it's in the 22 range again, depending on stores and States. I really think so to be honest.

Laurie Forster (29:07.278)

Okay.

That's still great, yeah.

Laurie Forster (29:15.202)

When you guys see this, it's so dark, it's so inky in color, you know, from the grape that I'm just learning about here. And is there a little bit of spice that I'm catching on that nose as well?

Enzo (29:25.682)

It is, it is. You have like, you get on the nose and you get them on the bite too. And then it's like, I call it the transformer wine because then from that bite to the finish on the back palate, it gets that little bit of involvement where I like to say it kind of like resembles those Vapalice wine. So compared to the Primitivo, it gets that lovely raisiness. It gets a little bit of that leathery silk. reminds like kind of like a little bit like quote unquote, gently speaking with a grain of salt, a little bit like an Amarone finish.

Laurie Forster (29:32.066)

Yeah.

Laurie Forster (29:46.176)

Yeah.

Laurie Forster (29:56.169)

Yes, I was just saying my husband absolutely loves Amarone. That's his favorite. And I'm going to have to have him take a sip of this because he's going to be like, I like this one. But yeah, there's all and both of these. I and one of the reasons why I love European wines and more specifically, guess, you know what we're talking about is Italian wines is that it is so balanced. I mean, yes, it's 14 and a half, I think, percent this one. So maybe a little bit more alcohol, but still pretty, pretty balanced with all the

Enzo (30:21.714)

Look a little bit.

Laurie Forster (30:26.032)

the the tannin the you know all of the finish is there any oak on this or okay okay

Enzo (30:31.708)

There is, there is just a little bit, not a lot. Same thing with the Brindisi Rosso Riserva, a little bit of oak. That is a riserva, so it does require two years aging by law and the disciplinara of which six months have to be, at least six months have to be an oak. So they both have a little bit of oak, but both of them have two very different wines, but have this characteristic, kind of like you said, well balanced. You can get a little bit.

Laurie Forster (30:50.99)

Okay.

Enzo (31:00.838)

from the wood barrel, but it's not overpowering, which kind of like really brings it together, giving it that like really smooth, smooth, elegant finish as well. I like to tell everybody, I think the Susumunila is so incredible. And to be honest, every time we do an event and we've showed this, it's by far, by far the favorite and the best seller. Like, I'm not joking.

Laurie Forster (31:04.396)

Yes.

Laurie Forster (31:21.442)

The favorite.

Maybe we need like a short, like can we just call it Susu? Okay, yeah, that, I mean that might kind of make it a little bit easier. I do find that especially, you know, probably not in Italy, but here in the States, people are so nervous about saying it wrong or not understanding like, yeah, but what is it? You know, and so, do you...

Enzo (31:28.108)

We do call it Susu, actually, for sure.

Enzo (31:47.346)

That's that's true. And I think a lot of it also has to do like how the marketing system works here, because if you walk in to your average liquor store, bottle shop, and by the way, I really like average because obviously there's a lot of incredible players out there that, you know, take a lot of pride and like, literally bring in like the most cool, unique things. But when you go into the Italian section, chances are you're to see the same 25 grapes over and over again, and a gajillion of them, you're going to see, you know, your

Laurie Forster (31:52.396)

Yes.

Laurie Forster (32:01.836)

Mm-hmm.

Laurie Forster (32:15.48)

Right.

Enzo (32:17.554)

50 different Pinot Grigio bottles, for example, both drank white varietal in the United States for Italian wines. Guess what the least drank white varietal of white wine is in Italy? Pinot Grigio. So it's a mismatch. So that's why, because they're used to that. Also, the labeling is very complicated. Italian labeling is very, very complicated. United States, that's, think, something they really do to help consumers.

Laurie Forster (32:23.586)

Right.

Laurie Forster (32:28.44)

Pino Grisio, yeah.

Enzo (32:46.16)

Labeling is very precise, concise, and straightforward. The variety is key. It's always front and center. But here's the problem. Italy is the country that has the most grape varietals in the world. Depending on your county, some average estimate about 2,800 of which about 6 800 are indigenous. It's impossible to know all those grape varietals and all these like really weird words. So it is intimidating. But.

Laurie Forster (32:50.158)

Right.

Enzo (33:13.274)

I love what you said before. Like if you can't pronounce it, you should be drinking. I think that's great.

Laurie Forster (33:17.878)

Right, just say it wrong, but...

Get the bottle, you know, because that's where you get the fun, interesting. And by the way, that's where you get the value because wines that everybody already knows about, like you said, California Cab or California Chard or, you know, these regions are a premium now because everyone knows about them and they're in demand. These lesser known regions or varietals, you know, not that Puglia is lesser known, but lesser known varietals. Or if you find a lesser known region, you're going to get more for the money because they're still building, you know,

Enzo (33:25.97)

100 %

Laurie Forster (33:49.584)

building a name for themselves and so.

Enzo (33:51.086)

100 % they're incredible value wines. Also, you're talking products that we pledge to always bring in regardless of hype or anything else. Susumino right now is in a very hype moment per se. It's getting a lot of attention from international critiques. The story is coming to life. It's very cool. We always pledge to

do none of that, especially on things that we're bringing in. You know, that means we control the different steps. We just don't do that. If this bottle was coming in through any other like large American importer and American distribution company, it's 50, 60 bucks on the shelf. We don't do that. We pledge not to do that. The bottle doesn't change hands all those times. When bottles of wine change hands, the reality of fact is

Laurie Forster (34:21.069)

Okay.

Laurie Forster (34:39.682)

That's amazing. Thank you. The money, yeah, it gets added on every single time. Right. That is so true.

Enzo (34:48.368)

The wine doesn't get better or worse. It just gets more expensive. So, you know, if we can do our part in that and, you know, it helps consumers, you know, learn new grapes or try new things. I tell everybody kind of like you're saying, if you're a Russian roulette, because I get the question, like, what do I try? don't know. Like, stay away from the big name and get a variety that you never heard of before, which kind of like I think in a different way goes exactly for what you were saying. Like if you can't pronounce it, it. I love it.

Laurie Forster (35:12.224)

Love that.

Yes. With the Susu, what would be your, you mentioned a pairing for the Radice, but for this one, what would be your favorite pairing? Other than meditating.

Enzo (35:27.486)

So here's the thing I I was going to say my bias on this one is so no jokes aside. I think this one is so majestic. You're going for the one and not the pairing. First of all, it'll make anything shine. It's that good, that interesting. And the fact that it's so like different involving from the bite to the finish, it'll kind of like you get a value of things all over that'll kind of like really shine. Now that said, this would be something that

Laurie Forster (35:40.94)

Okay.

Enzo (35:57.466)

Obviously, we'll do well from your pasta dish to your ragu. For example, if you're doing a wild boar, ragu would be, I think, amazing. Or if you're doing a more complex white sauce, like if you're doing a little white truffle cream sauce with a little bit of wild mushrooms and extra virgin olive oil, things like that. Or if you're just doing your brisket, I think would be nice.

Laurie Forster (36:06.744)

yum.

Enzo (36:27.302)

But here's the shocker on this one. I really like this with seafood as well. by the way, I'm strongly against the whole white seafood, red meat thing. Wine is like I said, it's complex. is too complex to be able to put in a box like that. And anybody that does that, think it's, unfortunately it still is. You go out to eat, chances are like, you'll hear that a lot. But,

Laurie Forster (36:33.045)

Interesting.

Laurie Forster (36:37.794)

red meat.

Laurie Forster (36:44.182)

Yes, yeah. Not anymore. That used to be a thing, but yeah.

Enzo (36:55.834)

This will do really nice with a nicer seafood protein as well. Whether it's a branzino or a rockfish, you that's grilled, you're going to get a little bit more body structure from the protein itself. But if it's in like a more elegant sauce, whether it's like a lemon, white wine flambé, or even like a slight puttanesca, for example, where you get also that, the salinity of the capers that really brings out.

Laurie Forster (37:00.48)

Okay.

Laurie Forster (37:09.912)

Okay.

Enzo (37:25.36)

It'll do really, really nice with that surprisingly. And I actually I actually enjoy that a lot.

Laurie Forster (37:28.182)

Love that. And now you are making me hungry. I need all these dishes right now. Well Enzo, this has been so amazing. So folks want to connect with you on social media or find out more about your wines. Of course I'm going to post the links on my site, but where should they go to search you out?

Enzo (37:46.45)

So my personal profile is tasting wine with Enzo, which they can find all my events by the way Just I thought this would be like a cool occasion because of your podcast We're gonna be doing something new in the area. It's never been done before We're gonna be doing virtual reality wine tasting. So we're the company that is gonna be bringing consumers to virtually walk vineyards in Sicily

Laurie Forster (37:59.075)

Sure.

Laurie Forster (38:08.014)

Ooh.

Enzo (38:16.154)

And it's a whole cool event. take you. It's, you know, partnered with all the VR hardware and software companies. And it's not just like a video watch. You actually, you walk through the vineyards, the towns, you actually see, you know, with the winemaker. And then after that, like taste your wines. at Tasting Wine with Enzo on Instagram to follow me and my events and the company I will definitely do. And then Impero Wine distributors for

Laurie Forster (38:39.586)

Yes. Yeah, send me all the info on that. I'll post it out there.

Enzo (38:45.888)

and generically speaking, all the embedded wines that we do in the entire mid Atlantic, we're a bunch of, you know, crazy Italian wine lovers. we're, we're the smallest fish in the sea. We are, it's an uphill battle.

Laurie Forster (38:53.983)

I love it. Well, you know what?

That's all right, you're gonna have to come back on the sipping point, because I know there's so much more we can talk about. We haven't scratched the surface. But thank you Enzo so much. I'll post the links to the wine. And once you give me info on the VR event, I'll put that out there as well. And I just wanna thank you so much for these two amazing, interesting, unique wines. And just say cheers, thank you so much. Salute, as you say.

Enzo (39:08.758)

Thank you.