The Legacy & Future of Dr Konstantin Frank Winery with Meaghan Frank

Summary

In this episode, Laurie Forster welcomes Meaghan Frank from Dr. Frank Winery in the Finger Lakes. They discuss the rich history of the winery, the legacy of Dr. Konstantin Frank, and Meaghan's journey as the fourth generation in the family business. The conversation highlights the significance of sparkling wine production, the versatility of Riesling, and the unique grapes like Rkatsiteli and Separavi. Meaghan also shares valuable advice for aspiring women in the wine industry, emphasizing the importance of community and continuous learning.

Takeaways

• Megan Frank is the fourth generation in her family's winery. 
• Only 3% of family businesses survive to the fourth generation and beyond according to the Family Business Institute.
• Dr. Konstantin Frank was a pioneer in Eastern American winemaking.
• Sparkling wine production is a significant part of the winery's legacy with over 40 years of making traditional method sparklers.
• Unique grapes like Rkatsiteli and Separavi are part of the winery's offerings.
• Women for Wine Sense is a valuable organization for networking. 
• Education and continuous learning are crucial in the wine business.

Wines Tasted

Dr Frank 2020 Blanc de Blanc Sparkling Wine

Dr Frank 2022 Superavi Red Wine 

Learn more about the story of Dr Konstantin Frank and Meghan on their website DrFranksWines.com 

Transcript

Laurie Forster (00:01.291)

All right, I'm so excited to welcome to The Sipping Point, Labrusca Frank.

Meaghan Frank (00:06.744)

Thank you so much, Laurie. It's such a pleasure to be here with you.

Laurie Forster (00:10.037)

I know we got a chance to do a little virtual wine tasting during COVID. And I thought you were, you know, so intriguing and engaging with all of my attendees. I knew when I rebooted the sipping point podcast that you had to come on. So thank you so much for joining us. Your family winery is up in the Finger Lakes. And I got the pleasure this past May to visit the area and I fell in love.

Of course, I was there in May on an 80 degree week. So maybe I didn't see the full reflection of everything of the Finger Lakes, but I had known how much I loved your wines, but I was blown away just with the entire region. And so I'm really excited for my listeners to learn more about it.

Meaghan Frank (00:57.686)

Absolutely. I'm really thrilled that you visited us, Laurie. We'll have to get you back up. But maybe you brought us the sunshine and warmth because I'm looking out and it's blizzardy and snowy and freezing.

Laurie Forster (01:03.043)

course.

Laurie Forster (01:10.625)

Well, you guys are kind of like to me, like if I think Finger Lakes, I think Dr. Frank because he really was so instrumental in so many things, really in the whole wine industry on the East Coast and beyond, but certainly in the Finger Lakes. Tell us a little bit from your point of view about the story of how the winery started. And then I'd love to hear more about your role in

Meaghan Frank (01:23.32)

Mm-hmm.

Meaghan Frank (01:36.948)

Absolutely, yeah, no, Konstantin basically came here, he was a World War II refugee, so he was born in Odessa, Ukraine, from a very young age became really interested in grape growing and winemaking. So that's kind of an unusual sort of passion for a young person, but he actually made his first wine by the age of 15, and then went on to earn a PhD in viticulture. So devoted his life to basically research and experimentation in the vineyards.

Laurie Forster (01:52.919)

Yeah, right?

Meaghan Frank (02:06.958)

And World War II brought the family to America. Constantine, you know, he was in his late 50s at an age when most people would start to slow down. He like fully ramped up and, you know, he arrived in New York with his wife and three children and in New York City, worked as a dishwasher, didn't speak a word of English, but he had six other languages under his belt. So he was able to find others, you know, to communicate with.

And he heard that the Finger Lakes was sort of a booming wine industry. And that that sort of piqued his interest. So when he arrived in the Finger Lakes in Geneva, New York, we have a grape and research station, which is still sort of our premier research institution through Cornell University. And so he came to Geneva. And he was very perplexed because he saw varieties that he was not familiar with. These are the American varieties, Vitas Labrusca. So like

Concord, Catawba, Niagara, also French-American hybrids, know, crossing with Vinifera and Vinifera Labrusca. And these were varieties that he just wasn't familiar with, and he wasn't overly excited about the quality of the wines that these grapes were producing. So when he asked, where's the European varieties? Where's the Vinifera? You know, researchers told him it's too cold. And he said, no, I come from a very cold place.

where these European varieties thrive. It's not due to the cold. And he had a theory that it was due to phylloxera. And that was the reason why these vinifera varieties weren't surviving in the Eastern United States. Of course, he didn't develop this theory. He had dealt with phylloxera actually in Eastern Europe when he was working in Odessa. And one of his big projects after his PhD was to rejuvenate a vineyard that was devastated by this

little microscopic root louse that had devastated vineyards throughout Europe. And the way that he mitigated that was by grafting the American rootstock with the Venice vinifera piece, the European variety. And that was completely successful to avoiding the pest. So that's what he pioneered to our region in the Finger Lakes and invited area winemakers and the culturalists from all over the country, but particularly the Eastern.

Laurie Forster (04:03.843)

Mm-hmm.

Laurie Forster (04:24.215)

Love that.

Meaghan Frank (04:32.0)

United States to come and learn the grafting technique, take individual vines home with them, and thereby sort of igniting this quality revolution in Eastern American winemaking.

Laurie Forster (04:42.103)

Yes. And vinifera, if you're listening and you're like, vin-what? But vinifera is the family of grapes that we all know and love, you know, from Europe, I guess, originally, if you want to think Pinot Noir and Riesling and Chardonnay and grapes that we're all familiar with. In previous to that, you know, we have our homegrown grapes, but they don't make as good a wine as...

Meaghan Frank (04:55.533)

Mm-hmm.

Laurie Forster (05:08.875)

as what we have now. And Dr. Frank, of course, without him, yeah, we'd be drinking a lot of grape juice tasting wines here from the East Coast. So we owe him a huge debt. And now you're so young, but you're there and kind of running the place. Gosh, how does this work? And what's it like? I know you're the fourth generation of the family in the business, and that's kind of unique. Tell me a little bit about how that works.

Meaghan Frank (05:10.946)

Absolutely.

Meaghan Frank (05:16.494)

Right.

Meaghan Frank (05:39.28)

absolutely. it's, it's, it definitely has its pros and cons. I think anyone involved in a family business would say the same, but it can be very, very rewarding. You know, but only 3 % of family businesses make it to the fourth generation. That's a statistic from the Family Business Institute. So it's incredibly difficult, you know, and we many times through the successions of the generations did not.

did not make it or we were thinking it was not going to happen. You know, when Constantine passed away, so many people said, the vinifera experiment, you know, that the European varieties that experiment has died along with Constantine. But, you know, his son Willie took the torch and continued to grow the business, started a sparkling winery, which we're celebrating our 40th anniversary of traditional method sparkling. And then from there, my dad took over in 1993.

He worked alongside his father for 13 years before my grandfather passed and I've been working with my dad now for 15 years. So it's been really rewarding and it was never my intention to go into the wine industry from a young age. I, it was, I'm one of three, so I have a sister and a brother and my brother was sort of the one tapped from birth, which is kind of always, you know, fallen in line with the male, I guess, the family.

Laurie Forster (06:58.829)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Laurie Forster (07:07.147)

Right?

Meaghan Frank (07:08.254)

I don't think that was like super intentional. It was just sort of the way things had always been. And, you know, my brother lost interest around the time I was gaining interest in college. And I just really fell in love with the industry and all the different things that intersect with wine. You you have art, have culture, have science, you have community. I mean, there's there's not one aspect of a good life that doesn't touch wine.

Laurie Forster (07:28.355)

Mm-hmm.

Laurie Forster (07:33.847)

That is so true. I love that. Yeah, and that, for me, when I started learning about wine, I'm kind of a career changer from high tech into wine, but it made me interested in subjects that maybe before I was like, eh, history, I don't know. Like, yes, know, some of the basics, fine, but you know, it really touches everything. That's what you're saying is art, it's history, it's community, it's religion. There's, you know, really tentacles of everywhere that wine reaches and that...

Meaghan Frank (07:58.112)

Mm-hmm.

Laurie Forster (08:03.309)

to me makes it fascinating. Because whatever you're interested in, we can find a tie in with wine for you. So I love that you were mentioning your sparkling wine production. You're just getting ready to celebrate your 40th anniversary of making sparkling wine, method traditional or method champenoise, the method of champagne, if you will. And that's huge being in the US to have that much experience behind you.

Meaghan Frank (08:05.518)

Absolutely.

Meaghan Frank (08:10.473)

Absolutely.

Meaghan Frank (08:18.401)

Mm-hmm.

Laurie Forster (08:32.195)

I know you sent me and I was hoping we could talk a little bit about your Blanc de Blanc. This, of course, I have the 2020, but Blanc de Blanc, meaning you're only using white grapes and in this case Chardonnay. But how are you gonna celebrate the anniversary and then tell me a little bit more about this wine?

Meaghan Frank (08:37.803)

Absolutely.

Meaghan Frank (08:49.056)

Mm-hmm.

Meaghan Frank (08:54.452)

Absolutely. Yeah, we were hoping to celebrate throughout the year. So we have a variety of events that we have planned. We have a really large sort of festival event that's going to happen in August, August 15 through 17. So that's going to be really fun about but we're going to have a variety of events, both at the winery and also in the trade throughout the year. As you mentioned, Laurie, it is it's a really exciting milestone for us. And my grandfather had so much

Laurie Forster (08:58.573)

Okay.

Laurie Forster (09:05.857)

Mm. Okay.

Meaghan Frank (09:23.254)

he had a lot of opposition when he started the sparkling winery, just in trying to basically establish credibility. You know, the traditional method process is the most labor intensive, the most expensive method to produce sparkling wine. And actually when he started in 1985, when we had our first vintage, he labeled every bottle finger lake champagne.

Laurie Forster (09:40.333)

Yes.

Meaghan Frank (09:49.292)

because he wanted to legitimize this as different than other methods of producing sparkling. When he passed away in 2006, we've gently removed Champagne from the label because we're not in Champagne, France, but we do still have method Champenoise to note that the production method. And because we have had this sort of long-term success with this style, we're really bullish on this category for the...

Laurie Forster (09:52.098)

Right?

Meaghan Frank (10:18.722)

the region. I think Blanc de Blanc, in particular, is really where the finger legs can shine. You you mentioned white from white, it's 100 % Chardonnay. You know, this wine, I think has the most sort of elegance and like long lived freshness. We, in our style, we don't do a lot of winemaking during the primary sort of stage. You know, there's not a lot of oak fermentation, usually about 5 % only.

Laurie Forster (10:25.891)

Mmm.

Laurie Forster (10:35.938)

Yeah.

Laurie Forster (10:48.79)

Okay.

Meaghan Frank (10:48.822)

So you're really getting a purity and sort of a freshness coming through hopefully in the glass, even with four years, you know, aging on the wine leaves after the secondary fermentation, you're still getting so much freshness.

Laurie Forster (10:54.55)

Absolutely.

Laurie Forster (11:01.111)

Yeah, I was gonna say that's a huge investment on your part to leave that wine laying around for four years before you can bring it to market and people can enjoy it. But the bubbles are so integrated to this wine and so elegant when you take this sip. When I'm teaching people about tasting sparkling wine, always joke around about college. went through this cold duck.

face before I knew what good wine was, right? And you know, when you drink a less expensive or, you know, let's say cheap sparkling wine and the bubbles are kind of assaulting. And so sometimes people like, I don't know if I like sparkling wine, if they haven't had a method, Champenoise or a really well-made sparkling wine, but it's, you know, it's sparkling, but they just dissolve so elegantly. It's, it's just beautiful. And to me,

Meaghan Frank (11:25.166)

I love it.

Meaghan Frank (11:35.372)

Yeah

Meaghan Frank (11:48.386)

Mm-hmm.

Laurie Forster (11:51.479)

Yesterday, I did an interview with an oyster farmer from here in Maryland, and this would just be so divine with oysters or really any seafood because it is a little bit more delicate. It's a little bit more elegant. You don't want something huge necessarily. And you have bigger styles like a Brut and a Blanc de Noir where we can pair with some and a Rosé. That's beautiful. But this is really, really nice. And like you said, it is it's just elegant.

Meaghan Frank (11:55.532)

Nice.

Perfect.

Thank

Meaghan Frank (12:05.591)

Mm-hmm.

for sure.

Yep.

You

Laurie Forster (12:20.577)

It's really nice. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Yes. And French fries, buttered popcorn. mean, yes, I know people like, I don't like oysters. Don't worry. There's a million other things you can eat with this sparkling wine that are going to be delicious. But I'm just obsessed with them. I love them. So yeah, it's one of those things. But you're right. It is people think they have to do something fancy, but potato chips.

Meaghan Frank (12:20.654)

Awesome. Thank you, Laurie. Even just some good old fashioned potato chips. It's a very good pairing too. And french fries. Oysters are good too though.

Meaghan Frank (12:42.498)

Same, yeah.

Laurie Forster (12:51.019)

is perfect, it really is, or microwave popcorn, when you're in a pinch. Love that. So, sparkling wine, we know you make great. And I think I was probably introduced to the winery through your Rieslings, and you have so many styles that you can make for years. And I think people are starting to get it. You really have to just kind of go over and over again with people with Riesling, because they just assume all Riesling will be sweet.

Meaghan Frank (12:52.042)

Absolutely. Mm-hmm. Totally.

Meaghan Frank (13:04.866)

Mm-hmm.

Meaghan Frank (13:18.294)

Yep. Mm-hmm.

Laurie Forster (13:20.927)

And you you have everything from bone dry onto dessert styles because that's the beauty of the grape. I know we're not gonna taste a Riesling today, but tell me your thoughts on Riesling. Do you think consumers are really, you know, and our listeners, are they getting it yet? What do you see up there in the finger lakes?

Meaghan Frank (13:41.228)

Yeah, I mean, I think Riesling is sort of the wine industry's best kept secret because, you know, you have all of the sort of gatekeepers, you know, the people that are writing about wine, the people that are, you know, teaching classes, you ask them what their favorite grape variety is. And by and large, you know, people are saying Riesling. You have Psalms tattooing Riesling on their arms, you know, like people are, but you know, it's...

Laurie Forster (13:46.605)

Right?

Laurie Forster (14:02.179)

True. Yeah. The summer of Riesling. Yes.

Meaghan Frank (14:06.924)

The summer of Riesling, you know, it's this grape that you really can't pin down. It's like a shape shifter, you know. As soon as you think you understand it, it changes. And I think that's the most beautiful thing about this variety. you know, you mentioned Riesling is sort of the flagship grape of the Finger Lakes. You know, we make nine styles and that's not a unique thing to find in our region. It's so transparent of the soil that it's grown on. So you see a lot of single vineyard expressions.

Laurie Forster (14:11.554)

Mm-hmm.

Laurie Forster (14:30.466)

Right?

Meaghan Frank (14:36.042)

And because it's, can't put Riesling in a box like you can other varieties like say Chardonnay or Sauvignon Blanc or something where you can kind of, I mean Chardonnay maybe is not a good example because there's a variety of oak treatments that you can do, but by and large, it's just, it's a variety that it's not gonna fit into a box. So I think that that's also part of the mystique.

Laurie Forster (14:57.837)

Yeah.

Meaghan Frank (15:01.514)

about race laying and it leaves a lot to the imagination if you will.

Laurie Forster (15:06.667)

Right. And I know people have started, and I believe you do this as well, having the Riesling sweetness scale so that people can turn a bottle around and see where it falls from all the way dry to all the way sweet. no, and I think that's kind of maybe been some of the problem for people. You label yours Riesling or dry Riesling, and many other people do as well.

Meaghan Frank (15:17.198)

Mm-hmm.

Meaghan Frank (15:28.373)

Right.

Laurie Forster (15:31.937)

So that's helpful, because I think when people don't know, maybe they grab one that's sweet and then they think, see, I knew it. But that's just not. And you do sparkling with Riesling. So it really is able to be a grape that can take on so many different styles. And I can't think of a lot of others that are in that. But given that you're...

Meaghan Frank (15:39.042)

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Thank you.

Meaghan Frank (15:56.368)

Thank

Laurie Forster (15:56.803)

Dr. Constantine Frank was known for, in addition to bringing the vinifera and the European grapes, bringing some of these sort of little known Eastern European grapes, like Rkatsiteli, which you're famous for, white wine that you're famous for, that I don't know that I've seen many other places. But you're introducing me to another one, a red one, to the Saperavi , which...

Meaghan Frank (16:11.662)

Mm-hmm.

Laurie Forster (16:23.447)

When I was visiting, I saw that around and that you even have a festival in the Finger Lakes all around this grape. And it was new to me. So I'm really excited to hear your thoughts on this grape and why you guys love making it.

Meaghan Frank (16:39.146)

Absolutely. The Rkatsiteli and the Saperavi , they're two varieties that are a direct tie to our sort of heritage. And you know, Constantine was very familiar with these varieties. They're actually of Georgian heritage, but widely planted in Ukraine, in Moldova, sort of that whole region of Eastern Europe. And they were, especially during Soviet times, really pushed as the two workhorse grapes that we're gonna

Laurie Forster (16:48.824)

Gotcha.

Laurie Forster (16:53.667)

Okay.

Meaghan Frank (17:07.02)

make a variety of different styles, they're going to grow well at a multitude of different climates. But when you work with them in the vineyard and make sure that the yields are controlled, make sure that, you know, the quality is high, the results are incredible. So that's what we found in the Finger Lakes. You know, Rkatsiteli that you mentioned, it's a much harder grape to say than Saperavi . But Rkatsiteli, yeah, yeah, I mean, I like it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Laurie Forster (17:28.501)

It is. And I was saying super Ravi, because I thought super, mean, come on, but supper Ravi. Okay, I love it.

Meaghan Frank (17:37.086)

Absolutely. Yeah, no, it's, both of those varieties, I think have amazing potential, I think, probably Saperavi  even more so because, you know, well, our Rkatsiteli is a white variety. We make a few different styles. We make traditional method sparkling. We make a white sort of tank fermented, very pure expression of that white grape, very aromatic wine. But we also do a skin fermented style.

which has sort of an orange wine that has some tan in it, has a lot of texture, and that's an homage to something that they do in Georgia as well with these large clay vessels, the Quavers, which we don't bury them in the ground. And then Saperavi  as a variety, it actually is one of the few red grapes with colored juice. So it's a Teinturier variety in French, you know, that's meant to mean basically it has that color.

Laurie Forster (18:15.81)

Yeah.

Meaghan Frank (18:33.133)

inherently in the juice, which is very unusual. And for us in the Finger Lakes, that is the key to making a deeply-hued red wine, because we are in a cool climate.

Laurie Forster (18:42.177)

Yeah, and this really is for those watching on video, it's quite inky. And yeah, I'm always forever telling people, well, most juice from grapes is clear and the red skins is what gives the red wine its color. But in this case, I guess the flesh is dark as well. Wow.

Meaghan Frank (18:59.726)

Correct. Yeah, and we actually, do a rosé style as well, and that's a very deep rosé. It's almost a red wine in color. You know, this has had some oak maturation. It's been in French oak for 18 months. You are getting a lot more of that sort of texture coming through and the aromatics also from the oak. But yeah, Saperavi , up until 2013, it wasn't a recognized grape in America. So all the wineries working with it had to label it a proprietary name.

Laurie Forster (19:07.143)

well.

Laurie Forster (19:25.315)

wow.

Meaghan Frank (19:29.642)

And then, yeah, it's really blown up since we're able to label it the grape name, which is really a really exciting development. And we do partner with an organization called Saperica. So Saperavi in America. And the two organizers have done a Saperavi festival at our winery the past few years. So definitely keep an eye out for details on that. And that's just a really fun way.

Laurie Forster (19:30.358)

Interesting.

Laurie Forster (19:52.835)

Okay, yeah. Well, what's interesting about it is there's floral, there's red fruit, there's also maybe like fig kind of essence in there, but it's very balanced. And even though darkly colored, it's not, you would expect, my gosh, this is gonna be so overwhelmingly bold and like ridiculously heavy on the palette, but it does not come off that

And what I love about both of these wines, probably we could extrapolate to a lot of your wines in general, is these are both 12 % alcohol. And I know lots of people are just done their dry January. I didn't do it, but okay, good for you people. But maybe looking for lower alcohol wines or wines that are not like 15 % reds. And so I love that this is a red, it's only 12 % alcohol and it's just so...

Meaghan Frank (20:29.996)

Mm-hmm.

Meaghan Frank (20:36.258)

Mm-hmm

Meaghan Frank (20:45.358)

Mm-hmm.

Meaghan Frank (20:49.55)

Thank you.

Laurie Forster (20:50.889)

easy to enjoy and not hit you over the head with the oak or the alcohol.

Meaghan Frank (20:56.174)

Absolutely. Yeah, I yeah, it's the more of the climate, I would say, you know, separate Abbey is grown also in warmer climates. There are regions in Georgia that are much warmer, you know, than the Finger Lakes and it thrives there. There's also a grower, a few growers actually in South Australia working with it that I mean, those are like monster wines, very intense and much higher in alcohol. And it really

Laurie Forster (20:58.059)

Is that the grape in general?

Laurie Forster (21:03.105)

Okay.

Laurie Forster (21:10.69)

Okay.

Laurie Forster (21:20.449)

Yeah.

Meaghan Frank (21:24.524)

That's the best thing about Saperavi. It does well in both warm and cool climates, and it's one of the few red grapes that will hold its acidity, you know, as the sugar continues to accumulate, which is a really unique attribute. And so we're really excited about the future of this variety. It's not something we see a lot of in other domestic regions. So it's become an important part of the Finger Lakes identity in just a short time.

Laurie Forster (21:37.132)

Okay.

Laurie Forster (21:46.787)

Mm-hmm.

Laurie Forster (21:53.591)

That's wonderful, yeah. Well, I know being a woman in the wine business, myself as well, any tips or thoughts for people if they're listening to this podcast and they're interested in someday, I wanna be like Meaghan. And you have so many great degrees I introduced you earlier, but the one I was most intrigued about is the one from Adelaide because that is one of the

Meaghan Frank (22:16.366)

Thank

Laurie Forster (22:23.201)

my most favorite places I've ever visited in the world. And I cried when I left because I loved it so much there. So, you you have so many degrees in various aspects of wine, but what would be your advice to someone out there who's looking to get into the wine industry? Maybe they're younger, maybe they want to switch careers, or maybe they just want a retirement, you know, job in the wine industry. What other women, what would you tell them?

Meaghan Frank (22:27.755)

my goodness.

Meaghan Frank (22:46.476)

Mm-hmm.

Meaghan Frank (22:51.778)

Yeah, no, that's wonderful, Laurie. I'm so happy that you enjoyed Adelaide because I also cried when I left. It's just a beautiful place. it's so, that was an amazing experience. I would say I am very, I am very privileged to be in the place where I'm at in, you know, to have this much sort of autonomy in my work because I am in a family business. And I definitely don't want to take that for granted.

Laurie Forster (22:55.332)

I did. Okay, it's not just me.

that.

Laurie Forster (23:18.051)

Hmm.

Meaghan Frank (23:20.622)

And I would say for me, one of the biggest sort of helps has been connecting with other women. We have a local Women for Wine Sense chapter in the Finger Lakes region. It is a national organization, but I would highly recommend anyone check. And it's not just limited to women. Men can attend too. It's not discriminatory in any way. But Women for Wine Sense is a wonderful organization. And the other thing is

Laurie Forster (23:20.962)

Yeah.

Laurie Forster (23:30.306)

Nice.

Okay.

Laurie Forster (23:42.273)

Okay, good.

Meaghan Frank (23:50.016)

you know, with wine and I know you feel this way too, Laurie, it's there's never enough that you can learn. There's always a course, there's always something to learn because regions are always changing, rules are always changing. So there's always education that you can continue to do. And I've met so many people through different classes, whether be WSET, Wine Scholar Guild, things like that. And those people can really become

Laurie Forster (24:12.547)

Absolutely.

Meaghan Frank (24:18.582)

mentors and also can you can share sort of tips and tricks like I think finding your community and finding your group in those channels is has been really helpful to me at least.

Laurie Forster (24:27.939)

Absolutely.

Laurie Forster (24:32.053)

I love that. Yeah, just get out and start learning and visiting wineries to me. Every time I visit a winery, like go through the spiel, you know, the basic spiel. I want to hear it because you always learn something more or just reinforce what you already know. And each winery has a different way of telling their story. And I love yours. I'm so thankful for you coming on the show and

Meaghan Frank (24:36.428)

Yep.

Meaghan Frank (24:55.362)

Thank you, Laurie. I'm a big fan. Thank you.

Laurie Forster (24:57.409)

Thank you for sharing your wines and all the great things you're doing. Guys, if you haven't been up to the Finger Lakes to Dr. Frank's, you need to visit the area, specifically her winery. And I'm gonna put a link to the winery and all of the great things we were talking about. But thank you so much for being on the show and I just can't wait to see what you guys do next.

Meaghan Frank (25:08.696)

Thank you, Laurie.

Meaghan Frank (25:20.002)

Thank you so much, Laurie. It's such a pleasure. I hope to see you in the region soon. Cheers.

Laurie Forster (25:22.529)

Cheers. Absolutely.