Innovating Rosé: The Journey of Whispering Angel Rosé

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Summary

From angel whispers to rosé revolutions—Paul Chevalier, VP of Sales & Marketing at Château d’Esclans, joins us to uncork the story behind one of the world’s most iconic pink wines. We dive into his unexpected path into the wine world, how rosé rose to stardom, and why Whispering Angel stands out in a sea of pink. Paul shares insights on making wine more inclusive, pushing boundaries with winemaking techniques, and why rosé is no longer just a summer fling. We also chat perfect pairings and the magic of connecting generations, one glass at a time.

Wines Tasted

Château d’Esclans Whispering Angel Rose 

Château d’Esclans Garrus Rose

Takeaways

• Paul Chevalier's journey into winemaking began in France at a young age.
• Whispering Angel has grown to be a leading rosé brand globally.
• The name 'Whispering Angel' was inspired by cherubs in a chapel.
• Rosé has evolved from a sweet reputation to a sophisticated choice.
• Inclusivity is key to attracting younger generations to wine.
• Whispering Angel pairs well with a variety of cuisines.
• The Garrus represents a new, innovative style of rosé that is bolder and age-worthy

Transcript

Laurie (00:01.024)
All right, Paul, welcome to The Sipping Point.

Paul Chevalier (00:03.974)
Thank you, Laurie. Good to see you again.

Laurie (00:07.104)
Absolutely. Well, we met years ago at the wine festival in Charleston and I had the chance to talk to you a little bit about the wines of Chateau d'Esclans, Whispering Angel and lots of other rosés and just Provence rosé in general and it made a great impression. So of course, when I was rebooting my podcast last October, you were on my short list of people I really wanted to have on the show. So I'm honored to have you here.

And I'd love for you to tell us a little bit, you know, I gave your bio, but your background is so impressive. I know all these great names like Chateau Margaux and Louis Latour and places, Veuve Clicqout where you've worked. How did you get to even want to be in the wine business from the beginning?

Paul Chevalier (00:57.72)
Ooh, that's a long story. as you can hear, I speak relatively good English. grew up in actually New England, outside of Boston. And when I was a very young man, I moved to France. I was probably 19 years old or so. And I went to university there to become a winemaker. I think that this journey in life, no matter where you go, if you really keep focused, and I always had this idea of, obviously I wanted to make wine, but I wanted to make something a little bit

different. So I was very fortunate to encounter a gentleman, his name is Sacha Lachine. I met him actually in Bordeaux. He's a couple years older than me. And it was Sacha who came up with the idea of moving to Provence, selling his father's property in Margaux, Prieure Lachine, and investing in Chateau d'Esclans back in 2006. wow, as time flies, because next year will be our 20th vintage, 20th anniversary of Whispering Angel.

Laurie (01:51.949)
Laurie (01:57.728)
Wow, that's amazing. And I'm sure, you know, you see all of the different reports out there in the wine industry, you know, people drinking less, maybe younger people not being attracted to wine and different things going on in the industry. But the one area of the wine industry that has been so strong is Rosé and your brand specifically. You guys seem to keep growing, whereas others are maybe not seeing that. What?

You know, you I guess you took a chance with Sacha and said, OK, let's do it. Let's go to Provence and make world class Rosé. Tell me about how did Whispering Angel get this cult like status?

Paul Chevalier (02:41.382)
Hmm. Well, to be honest, in the beginning when we started and this is the first one, it was 2006, there were very few people actually drinking Rose and Rose had a pretty horrible reputation, especially in the US of being associated with sort of...

sweet white Zinfandel blush and those sorts of things. the idea was if you could make a quality product, I think we do, is how do you spread the word? And this was again, very much Sacha's vision. It was to take it to all the right places and the right places are where it's places that are maybe a bit iconic, but also places where people sort of want to be. So we started in America specifically

I guess in the US people had a little bit more of an open mind and open attitude to try something new less of a perceived conception about what what wine could be and going to places like Nantucket maybe the Hamptons and then in the winter season in Miami and so forth we're able to start to spread the word but it was really about liquid to lips and also it's about being inclusive which means welcoming everybody into

Laurie (03:54.987)
Mmm.

Paul Chevalier (03:58.076)
our community. And that's really, really important. We can talk a little bit about this younger generation maybe who are drinking a little bit less. I'm a firm believer it's our responsibility to welcome them into the world of wine.

Laurie (04:12.448)
I love that. And I love the idea of inclusivity as well. And so you kind of went where the trends are made, I guess, if you want to think of it that way, Nantucket and the Hamptons, and then everything sort of spread out from there. I'm not sure I know the answer to this, but where does the name Whispering Angel, I know it's just one of your wines and we're going to taste here in a second, but where does the name come from? What does it signify?

Paul Chevalier (04:38.276)
Okay, it's a very good question. People ask quite often. So at the Chateau, which is Chateau d'Esclans, we're in the Valley of Escalant.

hills north of Saint-Tropez, about let's say 45 minutes inland, is there on the left, sorry, the right side of the chateau there's a chapel and inside the chapel, and it's not unusual because we're in France, you know, France and Italy and Spain, sort of traditional, of Catholic Christian sort of countries, chateaus would have their own little chapel. And above the altar of this chapel were these two faces of these cherubs in stone.

in actually white limestone. And Sacha was in there one night, I think it was with Patrick Leon and they're sort of maybe having a glass of wine. They looked at that and they said, hmm.

that could make a really cool label. And maybe after a second glass of wine, they said, wow, if you look really closely, it looks like one of the cherubs, and I guess angels are not he's or she's, so one of the cherubs would say, that one looks like he or she is whispering to the other one. So that's sort of where the name came up. And then probably a lot of people say why in English, not American, but in English, is because angel in French is quite easy, angel is ange, but whisper is le murmure or le chuchotement

Laurie (05:51.566)
Mmm.

Paul Chevalier (05:58.296)
or chouchat. So les onces qui chouchat, or mire-mire, didn't sound very good in French. But it's certainly whispering angel in English, just it resonated. And I think that's where it came from. it was, yeah, I'm not saying, I wouldn't say we got lucky, but it certainly helped to really...

Laurie (06:10.382)
Mmm.

Paul Chevalier (06:22.982)
elevate and accelerate our sales with with Whispering Angel. We first first began because it was such a challenge selling rose 20 years ago not just in America everywhere in the world. So Whispering Angel today is in over a hundred countries.

Laurie (06:36.461)
Right.

Laurie (06:40.59)
Well, wine can be such a great spark for creativity, I find. So it sounds like that's what they had in that moment, right? They had that unique setting and that stroke of genius. Hmm, maybe we take the whispering angel and make that our brand. And it certainly has stuck. And I do remember the days where everyone here in America thought rosé was white zinfandel and sweet. And so it was such a struggle. And I've been in business now 20 years.

to get people to try all the amazing dry rosés that you have in France. But now that's changed. And we were joking before we came on here, know, rosé all day. There's lots of really great hashtags and sayings and you'll see all over social media because rosé has just kind of captured a lifestyle that people want to attain or maybe just for the day, that idea of relax and pretend you're in Provence.

Paul Chevalier (07:38.353)
Yeah, I think we're again.

20 years sounds like a long time, in reality it's not. So it's really taken us 20 years to not only, I wouldn't say we created the category, but certainly to reignite it or renaissance would probably be a better term. The question now is, and this is something I'm working on, is what are the next 20 years going to look like? And I believe that, think this is, and Rosé is certainly a vehicle that can help, is this is where it becomes more than just the date

sort of swimming pool pink flamingos and unicorn kind of drink it becomes more more serious. What does that mean? It means around the table traditional holidays and in America be thanksgivings and whatever whatever religion Christmas or whatever it may be and then the rituals which have been going on for centuries about wine food celebration and I think maybe there's a little bit of a disconnect there that we've kind of gotten away from.

Laurie (08:21.71)
Mm-hmm.

Paul Chevalier (08:40.328)
So when we say the younger generation aren't drinking so much, think we shouldn't confuse historical, let's say a fermented beverage versus a distilled beverage. And wine is very different to other types of, I mean, I have nothing against tequila, vodka, and those types of things, but a little bit of a different consumption.

Laurie (08:52.962)
Mm-hmm.

Laurie (09:03.79)
Absolutely. And we've been talking so much about the Whispering Angel. I feel like we should taste it as well and talk a little bit about that. And what I used to say years ago when I was just really trying to get people to try it is if you closed your eyes and you tasted a well-made rosé from Provence, which of course the Whispering Angel is, you might think it's a white wine because it is crisp, because it is

light, it's dry. The whole idea of it isn't what you might imagine, right? Because you're ready for the sweetness, you're ready for something that is absolutely not. How would you, and I know this is a blend of three grapes, and we have the grenache, the cinsault and vermentino Tell me a little bit about how if somebody isn't a rosé adopter, I can't imagine they're not, but if they aren't, how you describe it to them.

to kind of get people to give it a try.

Paul Chevalier (10:04.25)
Okay, sure sure. And I think it's a very, very good point. what we're trying to do, and this was really Patrick Leon that helped us in the early, now it's his son Bertrand who took over because Patrick is best of way, but it was really about how do you create a product, being wine, with very little color, almost pale, almost transparent, but that has more. And through our vineyard management and specifically technology, we've been able to pick our grapes a little bit riper and then

really keep it precise and focused. So the way I describe Whispering Angel is the Grenache gives you the fruit. know, fruit would be like any red grape, red berry fruits and strawberries and berries and cherries and so forth. The Vermintino, which we call Rolle in France, gives you a little bit of the floral, the aromatic and a little bit of the lift. It has a little bit of viscosity. So if you actually look at the glass, you'll see what we call these sort of legs or tears. That could be

Laurie (10:58.446)
Mm-hmm.

Paul Chevalier (11:04.143)
in the case of certain wines, it could be a lot of sugar. But as you mentioned, all of these wines, Whispering Angel, everything we produce at Chateau d'Esclans have zero sugar. mean, literally zero. It's like 0.05 grams. It's some of the driest styles which exist. So the way I describe the wine in the mouth is it fills your mouth and it goes down like this.

So what it does is it coats the side of your mouth. No bitterness, no astringency, no bite, and smooth. Easy drink.

Laurie (11:39.831)
Mm-hmm.

Paul Chevalier (11:41.06)
That's very difficult to do. I joke about this as you know, whispering angel before you know it, you drink the whole glass and it is very, it's easy. And which is, which is, which is a good thing in moderation, obviously. So if you can produce these styles of Rose that give you satisfaction, then you start correct connecting with your community, your wine community. So you mentioned white wine. I do love, I mean, I love all wine, but white wine can be sometimes a little bit light.

Laurie (11:47.256)
Yeah.

Paul Chevalier (12:10.984)
and maybe a little bit acidic.

Laurie (12:12.077)
Mm-hmm.

Paul Chevalier (12:15.546)
We're in the south of France, there's a little bit less acidity. Some people don't really like acidity. So it's a little smoother, a little easier to drink, zero sugar, so we'd have to worry about that, and then a little bit of a satisfying finish. think about this, since we're using predominantly red grapes, Grenache and so and so forth, but the skin contact is very short, less than three hours. In your mouth, it starts like a white wine, but finishes a little bit like a red wine.

Laurie (12:44.301)
Yes.

Paul Chevalier (12:45.51)
it gives you the the kick comes in if you like, gives you the satisfaction. And so many people for whatever reason choose not to drink red wine. I don't know maybe because it's too heavy or it's too hot out or gives you headache or also I do my family are from Bordeaux I drink a lot of red wine but there are people that choose not to. Apparently there's a there's actually a trend towards white wine and rose these days. I understand why because it is people eat a little lighter and these wines are a little bit lighter and so forth. So I

Laurie (12:48.098)
Mm-hmm.

Laurie (13:06.274)
Mm-hmm.

Paul Chevalier (13:15.41)
think that's why our styles of rosé have done so well is you we really connect with these consumers and last but not least is you don't need to be a sommelier or a master of wine to understand this right it's pretty simple a couple grapes the color is light no sugar gives you the satisfaction so whether you're I don't know sort of a gen z you know 20 25 years old all the way to to

Laurie (13:29.997)
Right.

Paul Chevalier (13:42.522)
mother or something being 95, it pleases all generations. And I think that's cool and crosses a little bit of the barriers of wine being complicated, difficult to understand, makes you a little embarrassed because you don't know. This is, it checks all the boxes if you see what I mean. I think that's part of the success of Whispering Angel.

Laurie (13:48.45)
Mm-hmm.

Laurie (14:07.054)
I do too. think it, don't know if I would say democratize, but it's something that everybody can come together. The name of course is very, certainly here in the U.S. it's easy to say. French wines can be intimidating for a lot of people because we worry we're gonna say them wrong. I always say, if you can't pronounce it, you should be drinking it. So don't worry, just go ahead, go for it. You know, if someone corrects you, fine, you'll learn after a few times. But it is that.

that wine that you could cross generations. And because Rosé is seen not only at the dinner table, because I like it with meals all year round, but also in fun places that are maybe a little, not as like, you don't have to be a millionaire to drink Whispering Angel. You might have it at a sporting event or you might have it at a picnic, or you could have it at a wonderful fancy meal. It can kind of

be where you want it to be.

Paul Chevalier (15:06.342)
It does and we've been very careful, you know over the years with even pricing it depends again if you where you shop and so forth but even today if you're if you're a Savvy shopper and you probably look around you can probably find a bottle of whispering angel for around $20 so I always say if you have a $20 bill in your pocket that gets you a bottle whispering angel and That today is also not that easy because wine prices have really gone up a lot, you know, especially the big names of

Laurie (15:34.414)
Mm-hmm.

Paul Chevalier (15:36.282)
know, Bordeaux and Napa's and Burgundy's and super Tuscan-y's and so forth. And I think that's also part of the inclusiveness, cause it does welcome people into the wine family, but our ultimate goal, and I think this is important, maybe it leads us on to the next wine, is in Sascha's mind, when we first started, he says, Paul, I wanna make the greatest rosé in the world. I wanna make great rosé. I wanna make something that no one's ever done before.

Okay, how are we going to do that? And then number one, and then we did, and we came up with these cuvées. then the question is not how to make it. Okay, we were, we're winemakers. We know how to make wine, but then how do you sell it? How do get people to buy it? And I guess it just has to be really good. And you have to believe in the product and then you have to get the word out. So, um, we were in a, tasting in London not too long ago, doing a vertical tasting of some past vintages of what we make. And Sacha says, um,

Laurie (16:05.902)
Yeah.

Paul Chevalier (16:34.6)
We're not trying to change the world, we're just trying to get the word out.

Laurie (16:39.47)
Well, you may have changed the world of wine a little bit over the last 20 years and as we see rosé, so front and center now. like you said, white and rosés are trending a little bit up, whereas red may be trending a little bit down. So I find that interesting as well. You mentioned food before we move to the next wine, the Garrus if I'm saying that right.

sort of a more age-worthy, bolder style that I'm really excited for you to tell me more about. What's your favorite foods to have with a whispering angel?

Paul Chevalier (17:14.63)
Excellent question. So whispering angels probably the most Versatile wine for food if you have an open mind. So think about where we're from We're from south of province south of France and the Mediterranean lifestyle So obviously the first thing would be you know traditional Mediterranean cuisine of salad niçoise and something okay that that obviously that all works But then if you continue right and you continue into You know some of the Latin countries, maybe it's in Spain

We have all the charcuterie and the hams and the sausages and salty things and nuts and things. Worked with that. Continue on the other side into like the Middle East and I don't know, maybe Lebanon.

which is a famous chef in the UK I really love his name is Ota Longi. He made the Jerusalem cookbook. All that flavorful spicy style of cuisine, Rosé holds up quite well to that. Continue your journey like Marco Polo and then you're going off into Asia someplace and all of a sudden think about I don't know spicy Thai and a lot of that cuisine. Rosé works. Continue to Japan. was just in a beautiful sushi restaurant yesterday. Sushi sashimi works with that. Circle back.

Laurie (18:11.672)
Hehehe.

Laurie (18:23.095)
Mmm.

Paul Chevalier (18:26.716)
through California, fresh vegetables and all that type of works with that. it just, I think even to a certain extent, I mean, I still eat, I don't eat a lot of meat, but I meats, so why not some beautiful grass-fed beef and things like that, rare. So steak tartare, so really, it really crosses all the sort of the food options.

Laurie (18:46.189)
Mm-hmm.

Paul Chevalier (18:55.608)
And it makes your life easy or in all simplicity, I don't know, maybe just this Friday night sitting on the couch with a bag of potato chips and some dip. I don't know. Maybe.

Laurie (19:05.262)
Right. Or some pepperoni pizza, Love that. All right. So you also sent me another one of your rosés that this is a new one to me. So I'm very excited. I know that in doing a little research that Sacha wanted this, the garris to be sort of the top of the line or sort of the a cuvee if you will, that that was.

Paul Chevalier (19:16.807)
yes. Yes.

Laurie (19:33.814)
maybe on another level of Rosé.

Paul Chevalier (19:36.39)
100%. This is our Tete de Cuvee guess you'd call it. And this is where the innovation and this is where we really become very, very, very different. And I'll give you a little bit of a kind of a quick sort of resume or a summary of this.

Most rosés, the vast majority of rosés, 99 % if not more, are produced in stainless steel tanks. Same as champagne. All the champagne names that you would know, the Pommery's and the Tattingers and the Mums and the Whets and Clicquots and all that, all made in stainless steel tanks.

But there's a few exceptions. In the world of champagne, if you were to go back in time, this is, this goes back almost towards the, just after the second world war, about way back in how old I am.

In the old days, and some people in Champagne would use oak barrels, and there's still a few houses that do, being the ones that come to mind would be Bollinger, Krug, Alfred Gracia, and so forth. The style of Champagne, I'm not saying it's better or not, it's just a style. The style that's made is a little bit richer, fuller, what we call in French, vina.

So Patrick Leon came up with this idea is what if you were to take from our vineyards old vine, same grapes, essentially Grenache and Vermintino, but old vine, 80, 90, 100 year old vineyards, take that juice, same process as Whispering Angel, three hour skin contact, but instead of putting it in stainless steel, put the juice in these oak barrels, French oak, what we call a demi-mouis, they're large 600 liter French oak barrels, and leave it

Paul Chevalier (21:16.296)
a year. So that's a crazy idea. So rosé in an oak barrel for a year. And the result was very experimental. I think the first year we made like three barrels or something really small. That's actually a pretty funny guy. said, Patrick, it better taste good because if we can't sell it, at least we can drink it. And it was expensive because it's expensive to make these wines. So the result was a new style of rosé which all of a sudden became

Laurie (21:36.174)
Right.

Paul Chevalier (21:46.168)
more. So think about Whispering Angel and looking through a glass of Whispering Angel with a magnifying glass.

I Alice in Wonderland, it just everything except the color gets bigger. So you have a bigger number one, you have more legs and tears. have bigger nose, you have bigger aroma and you have more complexity. What does that mean? Instead of being simplistic, which is essentially just, you know, Rose, most Rosé's are fruity, which is not, not a bad thing. Now you have all sorts of different things. You have toasty and you have ginger and vanilla.

Laurie (22:05.763)
Mm-hmm.

Paul Chevalier (22:24.68)
And before you know it, you close your eyes. Now you definitely would not know you're drinking Rose. You close your eyes. could be in Burgundy somewhere between Merceau and Chasse and Montreux or drinking some 30, 40 year old champagne that was just opened from the cellars or something. so it was very innovative, experimental, and it was all about creating something which is more like a real wine, more like a, not that Rose isn't wine, but something more. And as I said, it's

Laurie (22:34.795)
Mm-hmm.

Paul Chevalier (22:54.6)
taken us 20 years to really not get the word out, but for the market to be ready today to accept that rosé can be something else than the afternoon swimming pool wine. There's nothing wrong with that. But this becomes more about fine dining and gastronomy. And that's where the big difference is. Because the wine is more opulent, it's fuller. The mouthfeel is very wide

Laurie (23:09.954)
Mm-hmm.

Laurie (23:21.324)
Yeah, the creaminess of it was like, wow. OK, I didn't expect that. Yes.

Paul Chevalier (23:24.838)
and the length. So bigger, fuller, richer yet still has the smooth, it's no longer, has a lot of minerality, it's a little bit sharper and a little bit more power. So because the wine is fuller, bigger, richer, more opulent, now it holds up to fuller, richer types of cuisine.

which takes me to a next subject. So why does rosé have to be your summertime drink? Because rosé, historically you would go to Provence, summer holiday, I mean we're getting into season now, everybody wants to go to Saint-Tropez and those places in the summertime, beautiful ocean, it's fantastic. But nobody drank rosé really after September when everybody went back to school, back to work. But you drink white wine in the winter, you drink champagne in the winter. So why wouldn't you drink rosé if the rosé had enough body, had enough

Laurie (24:12.408)
Mm-hmm.

Paul Chevalier (24:16.21)
structure to hold up to winter types of foods. So for me, this style of wine, all of a sudden is, depending on where you live, we get into the fall, the fall is the mushroom season, it's the truffle season, now maybe the sauce becomes a little bit more creamy and butter, all the things I should be eating, all those things that are richer and fuller. Well, that's not a rosé type of cuisine, but.

Laurie (24:36.533)
Yes.

Laurie (24:41.581)
Mm-hmm.

Paul Chevalier (24:42.354)
Now it is, because now you have a bigger style of rosé that holds up to those types of dishes. And as I said earlier, think about this style of rosé for those of you who do eat meat. The first thing that comes to mind would be baby lamb chops. Duck.

filet mignon on the grill, or in French we have the foie gras, but before the foie gras you have the foie frais, which you put it in the pan, you sear it on both sides, you put it on top of the filet mignon, the beef, it becomes the Tournedos Rossini. So all this type of cuisine, is, I mean this is fine dining, mean this is, I don't know, truffle risotto, and so that traditionally is not rosé dishes, would not be rosé dishes. So...

Laurie (25:12.064)
Mmm.

Paul Chevalier (25:26.838)
It really is breaking down these barriers. It's taking time because there's a little bit of, I'll be honest, there's a little bit of resistance out there. There's people saying, well, that's expensive. no, no, Rosé doesn't belong in fine dining Michelin star restaurants. Well, if it tastes good, why not?

Laurie (25:45.902)
Right. remind me the retail on this one. I know $20 if you're lucky on the Whispering Angel.

Paul Chevalier (25:49.38)
Yeah.

So we open 20 and something like this, it's probably more like a $100. So it's, it's that becomes we're in the range of, vintage champagne or I mean, Burgundy's or, you know, the top Napa red wines and, and, and Bordeaux's and so forth. I'm not saying I'd, I get my family from Bordeaux. I'm not criticizing red wine. just gives you a different option. If you choose not to, especially for these celebration types of

Laurie (25:55.212)
Okay.

Laurie (26:08.142)
Mm-hmm.

Paul Chevalier (26:20.562)
you know, occasions. And I think that's, again, it's about being inclusive. I'll tell you a funny story. It's my family in Bordeaux. So we have our traditional Christmas dinner and we have a long, long table. the older people like myself and, you know, sort of the grandfather, not that I am, but the grandfather, sort of people sit in the middle. And then the younger ones, the children, not children, but you in their twenties and so forth, sit at the end. And that's just part of the whole process, right? And all the food comes in the beautiful,

We have traditional Christmases, it's usually a, it's like Thanksgiving in the US. It's a turkey stuffed and all that, which is beautiful. And we usually have beautiful bottles of Bordeaux and the table and so forth. My little nephew Oscar is 23 and he doesn't like red wine. So the poor guy not only is at the end of the table, but, he doesn't like red wine. So I put a bottle of this for him at the end of the table. So he feels like he's part of the celebration and he's included in everything that we do. And that's how you teach young people.

how to appreciate wine is in these types of circumstances and situations.

Laurie (27:27.594)
Absolutely. I was not sure, you know, before I tasted it, I knew it was aged in oak. So there was going to be some of that toasty and creaminess in a rose. And I was like, I'm not sure, you know, but I really love it. I mean, it kind of gives it such a different quality. And immediately I was thinking like pasta with a creamy sauce. I love that you brought up truffles. That sounds fabulous. But you start thinking of different things, different types of cuisine for this.

Both are great in different situations. And it's nice that it's rosé isn't single dimensional anymore. There are various styles and this, you know, there's sparkling rosé, of course. There's still rosé. And then of course here you have something that would you say is more age worthy than a typical steel fermented?

Paul Chevalier (28:20.518)
You know, for sure. I think this is the, the, the number one challenge with whether it's from Provence or wherever of rosés is in general, especially the, more fruity styles that you really want to drink them on the younger side, younger side being the first year, the first two years, let's say the, once you start experimenting and what we do with this barrel fermentation is, is there's something magical that happens inside the barrel because they're the wine, sorry, rosé is aged on its lease, not different to, you know, white burgundies and other things, right. And stir.

and so forth. And what that does, it almost protects it from oxidation. So these styles of rosés, I was doing, as I said, a vertical tasting not too long ago, going back three, four, five, six, seven years, and the wines hold very, very well. Now, are they meant to age 20 years? Maybe not. That's not what they're made to do, but they do hold well. So if you choose to keep your bottle, or bottles, for two, three, four, five years, not a problem. And they become actually quite interesting.

because the fruitiness kind of goes away and it develops even more interesting sort of aged characteristics. So again, very much for me anyway, a food wine. This is not the... I wouldn't usually just drink this in the afternoon. I would start planning my dinner, my whole menu around the wine and so forth, then sharing because this does take a little bit of explanation to...

to understand because it's very unique. don't know anybody else who makes anything like it to be honest in Rose anyway and it's relatively new so it's been such a fantastic project to be able to work.

on one, not one wine, but just Rose Chateau d'Esclans for 20 years of your life. Just do one thing. And it's a privilege. yeah, it was far from over, but it's just a lot to do. And we will continue to educate.

Laurie (30:09.538)
Yes. I love that.

Paul Chevalier (30:21.702)
I often tell the story of, I had met many years ago, mean, Robert Mondavi, and you know his story, right? He would invite people with his wife over to his house, he was Italian, sort of family immigrant, and cook for them, and try my Napa Valley cab, try my wines, try my wines. I mean, do you think anybody really knew where Napa Valley was back in 1965 and 1970? Probably not, and look where it is today, in Opus One and so forth. So I think that, I mean, it won't be me, hopefully I said it'll be live, but the conversation 20 years from now.

Laurie (30:28.984)
Yes.

Paul Chevalier (30:51.234)
I guarantee people will be talking about this and it all began with the story of Chateau d'Esclans and Whispering Angel and Sacha Le Chien. So kudos, kudos to Sacha.

Laurie (31:00.33)
love that. And if folks want to connect with the winery online, and can they visit?

Paul Chevalier (31:08.942)
Yes, very so every year and believe it or not is is it's number one. It's it's a it's a beautiful place. So I will I will warn you though, because when you come to visit, be careful because you might like it.

Laurie (31:21.228)
might never come home.

Paul Chevalier (31:22.022)
Yeah, it's a beautiful place. So you would just look us up. It's Esclans without the chateau. So esklans.com is our website. So www.esklans.com and just click on there and send us a little email. All of our visits were open to everybody, inclusive, but you have to book it. you have to...

Laurie (31:41.806)
Perfect.

Okay.

Paul Chevalier (31:45.55)
like reserve and it's all private tour and we take you around, show you everything that I just tried to explain. You'll have a full tasting and I guarantee when you leave the property we will change your life. So you'll become a different person.

Laurie (31:58.946)
I love that. But in the meantime, if you can't get over to Provence, you certainly can find Whispering Angel and you have a number of other brands as well on the market other than than what we've tasted. So there's lots of ways and lots of that people can can taste your wines out in the market. And so I'm pretty sure nationally, I don't know if there's anywhere in the US minus maybe Utah that you you couldn't find.

Paul Chevalier (32:06.319)
All free.

Paul Chevalier (32:26.246)
I took Whispering Angel to Utah as well. I was following in the footsteps of Dr. Quinn. I've been everywhere at West, yeah.

Laurie (32:29.772)
Okay, perfect.

Laurie (32:35.628)
Yes, so great. Well, I really appreciate this. I think both of these are delicious and so very different. So it's been a great conversation just about Rosé and the evolution over the last 20 years and about your Chateau and the journey you and Sacha have been on. So thank you so much for coming on The Sipping Point.

Paul Chevalier (32:53.894)
You're very, welcome. So please come and visit us to the magical land of Rosé All Day See you. We'll see you soon. Cheers.

Laurie (33:03.914)
I love it. Thank you so much, Paul. Absolutely. Cheers.