Aldo Sohm: Wine Wisdom from Le Bernardin to Your Glass

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Summary

What happens when a kid from Austria falls head over heels for wine and ends up running the show at one of New York’s top restaurants? You get Aldo Sohm—award-winning sommelier, wine director at the legendary Le Bernardin, and one of the most approachable experts in the biz. 

In this episode, Aldo shares how his culinary beginnings led him to the world of wine, where he found not just a career, but a calling. We talk about the power of wine to bring people together, the lessons Mother Nature dishes out to winemakers, and why staying humble is the secret ingredient to success in this business.

We also sip through his personal passion project, Sohm & Kracher Wines, and geek out (in the best way) over Gruner Veltliner & Gelber Muskateller. Aldo busts a few wine myths (yes, Riesling and Chardonnay deserve better PR), gives his take on Gen Z’s wine vibes, and reminds us that great wine is about context, curiosity, and connection.

Wines Tasted

Sohm & Kracher 2017 Grüner Veltliner “Lion”

Weingut Tement SAND & SCHIEFER Gelber Muskateller

Visit Aldo at Le Bernardin or the Aldo Sohm Wine Bar in NYC & Check out his book Wine Simple!

Transcript

Laurie (00:01.198)
All right, Aldo, welcome to The Sipping Point.

Aldo Sohm (00:04.473)
Thank you for having me.

Laurie (00:05.87)
Well, I'm honored to have you on here. One of the best sommeliers in America and Austria. So you have those feathers in your cap. And of course, you're the wine director, as I mentioned earlier, at La Bernardin. And you have a very cool wine bar, Aldo Sohm, which I hope to visit in a few weeks. So I thought it'd be really fascinating, though, because you're at the top of the top here of the wine pyramid.

if you will, to just tell folks, how did you even get this inkling that this is what you wanted to do for a living?

Aldo Sohm (00:39.855)
Actually, I wanted to become a chef. When you're young and a decision came about, you know, what to do, I wanted to become a chef because I thought that's a really, can travel the world. But luckily, my father actually talked me and said, you should actually go to a tourism college, something which doesn't really exist here. Said, you're a broader setup. And luckily, after the first internship,

Laurie (00:44.59)
Cool.

Aldo Sohm (01:07.855)
I realized the kitchen is not my world whatsoever. lucky for me, they were short on staff front of the house and then they transferred me front of the house the last week. And after day one, even the chef said, what a waste of time to put you in the kitchen. And I full heartedly agree with him because I just blossomed up because when you're with people. Passed forward a couple more years because my interest wasn't in wine at all. I thought it was way too sour, it's stringent. I didn't have any...

aspiration into it and then I saw two Swiss couples. They're like me today. They are breakfast excited. What to have for lunch and what to eat for dinner and what to drink with it. And I thought, wow, I've never met people who were so passionate about food and wine. And this was before the internet. So I had to in my afternoon break, I drove to the library and purchased a couple of wine books and then realized.

Oh my God, from rural Austria on my couch I can travel the world. I read about the wines from California. I read about the wines from Australia, France, right? And you don't have to move one inch. And then of course eventually you move a couple of inches and start traveling these areas and then you dive into different cultures. And then it continues with the cuisine and it continues with the people. And...

That's one of the most fascinating aspects. And I see this on a daily basis, especially at the wine bar. You assemble 10 random people from all walks of life. You give them one or two glasses of wine and they talk with each other and connect. And that's why I love this the very, most, because we all let our guard down, right? And then typically the next conversation is, know, we talk about mom's cooking, right? And the dishes and that's the most, you know,

Laurie (02:51.01)
Yes.

Laurie (03:01.803)
Yes.

Aldo Sohm (03:05.487)
It's just the most magical element. No matter what jobs or whatever background they have, they all communicate. It's really fantastic.

Laurie (03:14.314)
It is, it is. There's that old proverb that I use when I do events that says, a bottle of wine, many a friend is made, because that's exactly what I see as well. know, people come in, they're a little nervous, they don't know each other. Maybe it's a wine dinner or wine tasting. After a couple of tastes, you know, people just start connecting. And I think for me, that's what makes wine so amazing and different than other beverages. You know, there are other tasty adult beverages, but wine is just something about

and community.

Aldo Sohm (03:51.065)
you can it with, you know, that's actually the best part. I mean, you can share a cocktail too, but that's more difficult, right? And you can drink a cocktail very easily by yourself. A bottle of wine is delicious, but if I know, you know, you know, he might enjoy that, probably that's his type of wine, or that's her type of wine. Then that enjoyment gets actually even amplified.

Laurie (04:15.214)
And when you started diving into learning about wine, and I remember the days too where we had to have all the books and we didn't have what's available online, did your local wine community there in Austria, did you start traveling to your local wine? Because there was so much great wine in Austria. I'm a huge fan. Was that part of your journey?

Aldo Sohm (04:38.221)
Oddly enough, I grew up in the western part, so in Tyrol, where the capital is Innsbruck, I had actually more access to Italian wine, oddly enough, because it was closer. No, I dove in right away and I got fascinated. My first bottle of wine was actually I bought, was a 1983 Darmaci by Angelo Gaja which was back in the day, you for me, we didn't make much money. That was a horrendous amount of money, but...

Laurie (04:48.782)
Mm-mm.

Aldo Sohm (05:05.791)
I was so fascinated about the story and Piedmont and I read into it and then a year after I drove down there and met Angelo Gaja and so on. Again, was just one led to the next and I was always the person who went for it. You know, my focus got onto it and I was very, very fortunate to meet the greatest people at the right time.

And it didn't matter for me if they were, you know, five hour car drive away. I asked them, can I learn from you and what do you have to do? There was no hour too long to work. Shortly after, you know, I worked in a hotel and I had a two hour afternoon break. We were at breakfast, lunch, and I had a two hour afternoon break. And I asked the chef sommelier there if I can help with the wine tasting. And he says, absolutely. Just to be very clear, this...

is your free time, this is not work. No problem. I said, but I break it down, I set it up and I break it down. said, that's exactly what it entails. Perfect, everybody thought I'm completely insane, Doing this for free, but you know, he sat down with me and corrected my tasting notes. I said, look at it, you talked about the acidity here, but look at it precisely. So was able to take their knowledge and they looked out for me.

Laurie (06:02.414)
Yeah.

Laurie (06:13.602)
Yeah.

Laurie (06:30.338)
Mm-hmm.

Aldo Sohm (06:30.991)
and pushed me also to excel, right?

It's just, and when you meet the greatest people then, they get you out of your comfort zone. And that, you have to have a stomach also for that because receiving criticism is not necessarily always, I mean, it feels great when someone taps on your shoulder and says, you're the greatest, you're the best, but that's not necessarily helpful. Of course it's nice, but it's sometimes when people,

Laurie (06:45.006)
I love that.

Laurie (07:01.666)
Mm-hmm.

Aldo Sohm (07:06.393)
They push you that you excel and that you work harder, especially when you're young. And when you think you have any time in the world, you have no time. Right?

Laurie (07:12.61)
Yes.

Laurie (07:16.66)
Mm Well, I love that drive. mean, that's ambition and, you know, being willing to learn from anyone. I'm a Barolo fanatic, so I've been to Piedmont several times. And so I understand being in love with those wines as well. But yeah, I feel like every winery you visit, every other person, you can always learn something. And I love that, you know, in your book and in your Instagram videos, I love watching those as well. You know, you're working.

at one of the best three star, you know, mission and star restaurants in the world, and yet you are very down to earth and approachable. Did that come from sort of maybe how you felt as you were learning along the way or how do you keep yourself grounded?

Aldo Sohm (08:02.543)
This is just who I am. Look, I think its life is not very difficult. A good morning, you know, a smile and a thank you opens you pretty much every door. And never forget where you came from. I know often people project into me, but it's for me very hard to control that. Again, I'm just a small Austrian who happened to fall in love with...

what he wanted to do the most, right? I've never really worked a day because I wake up in the morning and I'm excited to go what I do. That's my passion. That's my hobby. Of course, there are who are not so good. That's part of life. And I think, look, you see this quite a bit. When I grew up as a sommeliers back then, know, the French sommeliers they were the kings.

Laurie (08:49.922)
Mm-hmm.

Aldo Sohm (09:01.711)
Then they came long nothing. Long nothing. Where exactly is that, right? And kind of that often annoyed me because again...

Laurie (09:05.038)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Laurie (09:15.414)
Right. Well, I'm from Jersey, so it could be worse, I'll know. I know I'm teasing.

Aldo Sohm (09:18.967)
Yeah, I love Jersey. I love Jersey. It's beautiful. I'm every weekend there cycling. But yeah, no, I love Jersey. I know people make fun about it sometimes, right? But you know, it could be worse. Because if you make fun about it, people associate yourself with it. So that's actually perfect. And I often like this position to be the underdog.

Laurie (09:25.119)
that's wonderful. Wonderful.

Laurie (09:33.027)
They do.

Aldo Sohm (09:46.063)
It's much easier, especially when I started competing, be the hunter than the fox.

Laurie (09:46.818)
Yeah.

Laurie (09:52.992)
Hmm interesting

Aldo Sohm (09:54.623)
It's a very different position. But I think humility and I see this on a daily base, wine can be so intimidating. I see this myself. often, when I come to work, I often take the customer's approach. How is it if I walk, step into Le Bernardin? How do I see this? Same with the wine bar. Every story has two different sides. Sometimes even it gets more complicated.

As a result, don't know where our clients, what day they had before. They might have two terrible business meetings, right? We pick them up, you know, and give them a good time. That's why they come to us. Of course, we could serve you a glass of wine, serve you food, next. You can go for a diner for that, too. That's totally fine. But it's the experience that drives you. know, you have people who treat you with kindness and respect.

and they try to study your palate. So they give you the wine you love. And there is no ego in it because ego to me is a weakness and a sign of insecurity. There's always someone better out there. That's what you learn in New York very quickly.

Laurie (11:00.494)
Mmm.

Laurie (11:07.722)
Interesting. Well, I know one of the things we talked about was you were going to give us a couple of suggestions for some great wines for spring into summer, which was where we are right now in the world. And so the first wine is actually I've been a groovy. call it groovy. A Gruner, Veltliner fan, a groovy fan for a very, very long time. So was so excited when that was one of the two you wanted to talk about.

And in addition to all the other things that you're doing, you're actually taking part in making this wine with your friend Gerard Kracher Yes. So tell me a little bit about Sohm & Kracher

Aldo Sohm (11:46.766)
Yeah, Kracher

Aldo Sohm (11:51.283)
I mean, look, I'm a sommelier and we criticize wines. And I was traveling in Argentina in 2008 and winemakers were very excited that I visited them and they asked me actually in a wine tasting if I would criticize their wine. I said, who am I? I'm not gonna criticize your wine. But then on the flight back, I realized, they're actually right. I criticize but make nothing.

And criticizing is easy. We don't need to know anything. And at first I started actually looking in Argentina a little bit, and I thought this could be actually a great climate for Gruner Veltliner And then it kind of stuck with me. And then I met, I shared this idea with another winemaker, and the second winemaker was Gerhard Kracher, who just accidentally, I was in my favorite little Thai lunch place in Queens.

And he called me, just landed in LaGuardia, said, listen, I'm just literally 15 minutes away from you. And I shared his idea, and he looks at me said, why don't we do this together? And it made actually complete sense, and we discussed immediately what we did not want to make, and we were aligned with that. And I believe in retrospect, look, we've been working now since 2009 was our first vintage. I think it made me a better sommelier and also a better taster.

because we often, as sommeliers, as a taster, often you're being dogmatic about certain things. And this comes often in trends, right? Oak, sulfur, natural, and this and that. And it's actually, it's very, interesting. And for me, working at Le Bernardin, I'm very, very blessed and spoiled to a degree. And I'm eternally thankful for that.

that family I work with because I have access to pretty much every winery to visit. But what is typically the normal outcome? It's like visiting a large family. They line up the well-behaved children up in the front and the naughty ones are locked away. And in wine you learn from the naughty ones the most. I don't get to see them because no one wants you to show you that. That thing is not wrong. I get to see this right now because I can also experiment.

Laurie (14:10.73)
Mmm.

Aldo Sohm (14:18.639)
and it's so insightful and winemakers taste also different. It's fascinating to observe and what's the, know, it's having no sulfur in, okay, what's the outcome, right? Or inoculating yeast or working with spontaneous yeast. What's the difference, right? It doesn't work every year, right? And so on and so on. You get to see this right now. And I had this once, people said, oh, we don't like wines where...

Laurie (14:23.48)
Mmm.

Aldo Sohm (14:48.675)
Yep, without spontaneous fermentation. We do that too, but there was this one year where we had to help because, one barrel even got stuck. said, and? And said, typically it wouldn't be a problem because it restarts and know, when it gets and finishes, it's just not that barrel. And said, and the world did not crave for a Gruner Veltliner with 30 grams of residual sugar. And what did you do? And I said, very simple. You opened the spout.

Laurie (15:10.926)
Mm-hmm.

Aldo Sohm (15:16.951)
and wait until the barrel is empty. And since he's so fond about it, he said, why don't you go to the ATM, withdraw a couple of thousand dollars and throw it on the drain too. And then I'll ask you, how adamant you have to be. This is often being, again, you have to, sometimes things go wrong. This is the daily life, right? You're working with Mother Nature, right? You have a good year, you don't have a good year. You're working with challenges, you're working with, you know, climate change, you're working with all these elements.

Laurie (15:26.572)
Mm-hmm.

Aldo Sohm (15:47.043)
We are basically just a reaction to what nature gives us. And that's what you get to learn. So as a result, you have to act slightly different and adjust to it. And this is to me often, when your doctor prescribes you antibiotics, there's probably a reason. If your doctor prescribes you antibiotics weekly, you might want to change the doctor. That's the other extreme.

Laurie (15:50.83)
Hmm.

Laurie (16:06.19)
Absolutely.

Laurie (16:12.182)
Right?

Aldo Sohm (16:15.203)
The truth is always somewhere in the middle.

Laurie (16:18.36)
So tell me about the Lion Gruner Veltliner that we have here. I know you make several. Yes, don't make me drink alone Aldo. Cheers.

Aldo Sohm (16:22.255)
I threw myself in the dust. you ready, Enough. Cheers. It looks like you have the right glass too,

Laurie (16:33.87)
I think I like this glass. I don't think it's one of yours, but similar style. Yes.

Aldo Sohm (16:37.615)
It's a salter, right? It's the Gruner Veltliner line, we make four different wines. We make two single vineyard specific wines. The single vineyard was the original site we started with in 2009. Then we got another single vineyard in 2013, St. Georg, which is a Gruner Veltliner site in the Burgenland, which is a little bit unusual. Therefore, this tastes almost more like a combination with Chenin Blanc and like a

Macon It floats in between. Yeah, because it's all grown on carcaris fossil soil. So it's of course structurally very, different. And then we make the Alte Reben, which actually I have here, which is one of my absolute favorite summer wine. And the most easiest and the business card for Sohm & Kracher is the lion. And I have to be very honest with you, this is the wine I never wanted to make. But...

Laurie (17:08.174)
Mmm.

Laurie (17:33.614)
How come?

Aldo Sohm (17:36.771)
because Gerhard and I have this agreement that when both don't agree, it's the other one's job to bring a good enough argument. And we had two importers who were pushing to make a more accessible style. said, Avrakid LeBrun-Natan, accessible is not necessarily in our language barrier in that case, right? I want to make complex wines, right?

And at one point we were drinking wine at night and then he brought this topic up again and said, just make two barrels for them and then you leave me alone. And then to be very honest, he gave during the Viennum, which is the biggest Austrian wine exhibition in Vienna, he gave this to a friend of mine, a master sommelier, and he says, my God, this wine is delicious. It's the most successful wine and it kills me.

Laurie (18:26.752)
Nah, well, you got to give the people what they want, I think is that answer.

Aldo Sohm (18:30.541)
No, it's... Well, ultimately the fish has to like the bait, not the fisherman. No, but what this wine is so beautiful about and look, of course I changed my mindset on this. Look, it's no problem to be wrong.

That's normal, that's life. It's what I love about this wine. You know, you can have this wine, it comes from Lower Austria, it's from the Northern part, very close to the Czech border. It's a wine which you just can open, it's the only one we make with screw cap, just to have this extra little touch of freshness. It's very accessible, it's not very expensive. I think even this price range, this wine is super, super competitive in that field. And we did come after work.

Laurie (19:11.832)
Mm-hmm.

Aldo Sohm (19:14.415)
and just need a crisp refreshing gloss, which kind of brings you down a little bit, that is the wine. If you sit in the pool or if you sit on the beach, you know, and to me, I'm always talking about food and wine because they both belong somehow together. I'm too European when it comes on that. You know, if you just have a simple salad or if you have some oysters or you some shrimp, right, that's the wine I basically gravitate to. You could go as far as, you know, you have a little salad with a chicken breast, just add a little bit of protein on it.

Laurie (19:26.616)
together.

Aldo Sohm (19:43.737)
Perfect too, right? If I just have it home, know, grill some vegetables, same thing. I go for that. And the best thing is I don't feel guilty if I have a couple of people over and I open a second or a third bottle of because it doesn't break the bank. And that's to me often, again, we often have a tendency to overthink this, that wine has to be expensive. Not necessarily. It's a mood driven thing. And that's what I think. I could care less about the price because

Laurie (19:56.462)
Absolutely.

Laurie (20:08.173)
Mm-hmm.

Aldo Sohm (20:13.763)
Just because it's expensive doesn't mean necessarily you have to like it,

Laurie (20:17.73)
Yeah, no, I like that you say that actually, I just recently interviewed Paul Chevalier from Whispering Angel, he said to say hello. And we were saying the same about Whispering Angel that it's very accessible because it has that really great, in that case, red fruit. But in this case, you do have that nice fruitiness on the palate, but that crisp acidity that balances it out, that does to me make it a great spring summer wine.

I'm located here in Maryland near the Chesapeake Bay. So we're all about seafood. So this to me would be the perfect thing to open with. Actually, we're having crab cakes for dinner this evening. So with crab cakes or like you said, the shrimp or other types of seafood. And I feel like if I didn't tell anybody what this was, like maybe they're a diehard Pinot Grigio drinker or Sauvignon Blanc, if you will.

Aldo Sohm (20:59.449)
Perfect.

Laurie (21:16.642)
I could serve this to someone and ask them and they will fall in love with it. And then you tell them what it is and then they're like, I don't know about that. Because they'll be a little nervous to say the name of it, you know, first off. But I think the style is a style that a lot of wine drinkers here in the US gravitate towards.

Aldo Sohm (21:37.283)
I mean, ultimately, obviously, to Sohm & Kracher and bias. However, if you take the bias for a second away, because in New York, it's living in New York and working in New York for a long time, you learn one thing very quickly. And this is why I love living in America. Americans are always very curious if they don't know something. They're willing to try, but it better be good.

Laurie (21:40.61)
Yes.

Laurie (22:05.966)
That's probably, yeah, true.

Aldo Sohm (22:07.855)
They don't listen to you anymore. but to me, when I come back to it, forget about my bias, Gruner Veltliner or often people say GV, right, Gruner Veltliner, is actually a variety which for us in the US, where we are influenced by so many different cultures and cuisines, it's actually one of these type of wines which fits pretty much throughout...

all of our cuisines we have. You're not as flexible on a Sancerre. You're not as flexible on a Chablis either. They require a specific type of food. You probably have a certain flexibility on a certain rare varieties, but Gruner Veltliner carries you through. And the best of all, if I'm invited to somewhere and I have no idea what these people cook, I bring a bottle of Gruner Veltliner First of all, everybody thinks because it's a Riesling bottle, it's sweet.

Laurie (22:42.964)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Aldo Sohm (23:05.166)
And you this is actually the opposite. It's bone dry. And it's refreshing and it's crisp and people see and you tell them about it and then all of a sudden, wow, I really like this wine.

Laurie (23:08.877)
Mm-hmm.

Laurie (23:17.238)
I love it. And you, you have another Gruner-Veltliner that you also brought, which I didn't have a time or chance to get. The Single Vineyard, tell me a little bit about that and how it differs from The Lion.

Aldo Sohm (23:30.447)
Actually, I brought you the Alte Reben. The Alte Reben actually, like I said, as a winemaker, and that Gerhard the winemaker, I'm just the one who has the crazy ideas, and I bug him and we taste non-stop. This, the Alte Reben, the single vineyard was the first wine, and it's a small, a one-hectare large parcel with now 60-year-old Vines because they produce less, but the quality is much higher, so it's more concentrated, it's more richer.

And in 2010, and that's when I got to see, know, many people think wine making is this romantic work. Yeah, BS. It's really hard work and it's heartbreaking because in 20, the first 09 was 1800 bottles. The following year, it was such a challenging year, but the qualities were exceptional. But we make from the same parcel, 800 bottles. And then I thought, Lord have mercy.

Laurie (24:08.814)
You

Laurie (24:24.662)
Mmm

Aldo Sohm (24:28.749)
My friends all in New York, supported me and took on that wine and they believed in me. And now I'm coming around to them and tell them the wine is allocated. They're gonna hang me on the next tree. in, no, no, but it's just, thought, you know, and that's when we created the Alte Reben, which basically are small, younger parcels around that single vineyard. And to me,

Laurie (24:53.056)
Okay.

Aldo Sohm (24:55.447)
That wine is a tick more expensive than the Lion, but it delivers so much. It's also more complex. To me, this I bring immediately. I can elevate the cuisine with no time.

Laurie (25:08.576)
Okay. And did I see there's a little bit of neutral oak with that?

Aldo Sohm (25:12.163)
What we... He did too much research. He's very well prepared. See, this is the thing what we learn. Gruner Veltliner often has a tendency when it becomes too ripe, it becomes very top heavy. It loses the acidity very quickly. I don't like that because I think wines have to have a crunchiness, they have a freshness and a vibrancy and acidity provides that.

Laurie (25:16.174)
Sorry.

Laurie (25:28.494)
Hmm.

Aldo Sohm (25:38.287)
And what we do here, but if it's only acidic, it's not good either because it's just too austere, too tart. So you need to have ying and yang a little bit. What we do here is we ferment about 80 % in stainless steel on this wine and use four. Now in this wine is now six times used barrique. So it's not for this oaks taste anymore because that's gone.

It just gives a different evaporation and different textural element. For the most of stainless steel is too, I always often describe it that one is too sterile. It's precise, it's crisp, it's fresh, but it doesn't necessarily have the grace. And those barriques they provide that. So we soften that out a little bit so it's texturally more interesting.

Laurie (26:11.198)
Mm. Okay.

Laurie (26:24.354)
Mm-hmm.

Laurie (26:30.306)
Like it.

Laurie (26:34.55)
And are these all the wines that we've talked about so far? And I know you have another suggestion for us. If we come into Aldo Sohm Bar are these going to be available typically? OK, perfect. So I know I have lots of listeners that are going to be going to New York over the next few months. And so definitely get in there. can you be spotted at the wine bar on most nights? Or how do you split your time between the restaurant and the wine bar?

Aldo Sohm (26:44.904)
yeah. yeah.

Aldo Sohm (27:01.615)
I mean, people make fun of me, but I spend about 80 % to 85 at Le Bernardin and 10, 15 % over at the wine bar. I have two exceptional teams, spearheaded by two chefs sommeliers else on each side. So I'm really, really fortunate to work with a great team of people. And who actually are willing to go with me at this crazy guy who comes up with some...

Laurie (27:22.764)
of that.

Aldo Sohm (27:31.169)
No, but I think, look, you have to always evolve. You have to often try new things and not get stuck in old systems, And we humans often label things very quickly, right? And put them in an archive. I try not to do that. I try to keep an open mindset. And the wine world was never as exciting as it is today.

Laurie (27:55.672)
That's awesome. I can't wait to come. All right, speaking of exciting, you have another wine recommendation that I think is something that many people have not heard of. So I'm excited for you to tell us about this and why it's so perfect for spring into summer.

Aldo Sohm (27:56.569)
Yeah.

Aldo Sohm (28:10.659)
You know, I just talked about this wine recently with my chef, Sommelier Eva, at the wine bar because we looked for spring wines. And she asked me, I said, I said, so what do people, and she's French, I said, what do people actually drink in Austria? And I said, it's very simple. We drink Gelber Mukateller She says, what? I said, yeah, we drink Yellow Muscat. So this is from the Tament winery. This is from Styria. This is from the southern part. They actually border Slovenia.

and it's yellow muscat So now the first, of course, red flag pops up. Muscat is sweet. Not at all. This is bone dry. Bone dry and has 11.5 % alcohol. But it's not a skinny wine. It's not a lightweight wine. It's light for perfect for spring and for summer, but has this kind of

Laurie (28:56.14)
Nice.

Aldo Sohm (29:06.671)
muscat nutmeg elements, right? Plus also it has this spiced flavor and the little hints almost like it shoots almost in a Sauvignon Blanc direction, but it's not as expressive, not as loud. And of course, we love this type of wine either, you know, when you have them, for instance, if you have a little bit of arugula salad, right? It brings this with it certainly play with olive oils around.

Laurie (29:19.982)
Mm-mm.

Laurie (29:29.422)
with that spice.

Aldo Sohm (29:36.367)
That is the most genius combination. Or we have some elements where you add a little bit of raspberry vinaigrette onto it. That's when these wines excel. Or if you have a little ceviche. If you have a ceviche with a yellow muscat a dry one, I can tell you one thing, you're gonna behave like a drug addict. You're this wine more more and more, And again, it's light. That's the idea, you don't should feel guilty.

Laurie (29:55.756)
Yeah.

Aldo Sohm (30:04.847)
as having a second glass in that case. But it has that vibrancy and has this clean acidity. That's actually an area which we commonly call in Austria, it's the Tuscany of Austria, because it's so small, but so extremely hilly, but it's so luscious green. A very maritime climate, and it's one of the most picturesque regions there.

Laurie (30:08.718)
I love that.

Laurie (30:23.874)
Mmm.

Laurie (30:29.61)
All right. So for spring into summer, have GV, Gruner-Veltliner and GM, Gelber-Muskiteller. So we have, yeah, we have two.

Aldo Sohm (30:35.279)
Winner is leader.

This is one of the producers, Tement. They're actually really famous for their Sauvignon Blanc. That's also a Sauvignon style, which is really, really fascinating. But there's other producers. Neumeister makes an excellent one, right? Gross makes an excellent one. L'Acnetinager makes an excellent Muscatelle. They're really fantastic, overlooked. And that's where your opportunity sits in. And they're not even expensive. They don't break your bank.

Laurie (31:07.5)
love that and I will often say that if you can't pronounce it, you should be drinking it. So because that's where the value is and you gave us a couple that people may have a little trouble with, but I do think there's a lot of great wine in Austria. A few years back, I had the pleasure of visiting and I was blown away. So I wish we had more of the wines available that...

you can taste when you're there, but I know Austrians like to drink wine too. So we don't see it all over here.

Aldo Sohm (31:35.983)
No, it's very very favored and we export only about 25 % and Austria makes only a little bit less than 1 % of the entire worldwide production. So it's tiny but over there everything is very green, it's very focused towards nature. Many wines are biodynamic or sustainable in farming so people are very conscious to that. Obviously.

Laurie (31:43.245)
Mm-hmm.

Aldo Sohm (32:03.887)
I mean, I love French wine without a doubt. I just brought two spring wines, which are seasonal. yeah, I think in today's world, to your point, it's so easy. You grab your iPhone and ask how this is pronounced. That's it. Back in the day, when I got into it and got it with some books, good luck. go into Hungarian grapes or go into Greek grapes and the regions.

Laurie (32:07.564)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Laurie (32:19.18)
Mm-hmm, that's true.

Laurie (32:25.262)
Right?

Aldo Sohm (32:32.111)
Good luck how you get this out, right? And don't study it in the wrong way. It's easy today. Today, after you've managed the information flow, back in the day, you had to basically retrieve it. Very, very different studying.

Laurie (32:36.236)
Right.

Laurie (32:44.268)
Yeah. And so I have a question for you. What is now? I know you have to get on the floor soon, but what's one wine myth that you see people believing over and over again that you want to just put out there? It's just not true.

Aldo Sohm (33:01.167)
There's so many.

Laurie (33:02.958)
I know.

Aldo Sohm (33:05.283)
There's so many. I mean, one thing you always hear, people don't like Chardonnay, but they love white burgundy. Right? Well, that is Chardonnay. It just tastes very differently because it's differently produced. Another myth we see often, Riesling has to be sweet.

Laurie (33:14.477)
Right?

Aldo Sohm (33:26.895)
Not true either, it's not necessary, it can be actually bone dry. I often use my wife for it even though she doesn't like when I mention it. Riesling is her least favorite grape because she thinks it's sweet and whenever I open the dry Riesling she says, my god, what is this wine? This is delicious. I said, that is your least favorite grape? No, but it's just, there's the message in it, right?

Laurie (33:27.221)
Not true.

Laurie (33:50.606)
No.

Laurie (33:56.376)
Mm-hmm.

Aldo Sohm (33:57.195)
And I actually love it because I learned actually from her also quite a bit because since you brought up Whispering Angel earlier, we were in the Cayman cookout for Eric's event in the Cayman Islands. And she sits on the beach and says, I want to have a glass of rosé. And I said, yeah, let me get the wine. says, no, I don't want something fancy. I want an inexpensive rosé I just can chug

And to me, I God smacked a little bit. What?

Laurie (34:30.04)
I think I'd like your wife. I want to meet her.

Aldo Sohm (34:30.297)
But I have

But I have to admit, least, I mean, one could have said, you know, they criticize or be judgmental about it. I didn't want that. So I came out of the water and said, can I try it? just, I was curious. And I have to admit, it was delicious, but it's context driven, right? This is when you learn and this is when the light bulb went up. Everything in life is context driven, right? It wouldn't be a myth. Everything has

Laurie (34:50.518)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

Laurie (34:59.648)
Mm-hmm. It's a place. It's the food. It's the people.

Aldo Sohm (35:04.431)
100 % around it, right? So it wasn't going to be do this thing in New York, right? But it's just there, everything came together and it was okay, right?

Laurie (35:06.264)
Mm-hmm.

Laurie (35:14.028)
Love that. Well, I tasted his garris rosé, which has a little bit of oak aging, and that was quite eye-opening because really making it into a different style, maybe a bolder, more age-worthy type style. And I was like, wow, nothing like Whispering Angel. You know, it's just the difference there. All right. OK.

Aldo Sohm (35:34.073)
mean, look, it's such a vast public, that's an whole show in itself.

Laurie (35:38.478)
Absolutely. And one more thing, Gen Z, of course, is the big conversation in the wine world right now. Well, we aren't Gen Z, I don't think. But what is your thoughts on and what are you seeing in the wine bar, in the restaurant with Generation Z? know, people are saying, how do we get them into the wine fold, get them more connected with wine as a beverage?

Aldo Sohm (35:45.743)
I don't like to do that. I don't like to be called that way.

Laurie (36:06.742)
What are your thoughts? you seeing or doing anything to kind of attract that generation?

Aldo Sohm (36:12.943)
I mean there's lots of press, the press is quite talking about them and actually bashing them to a degree and I actually wouldn't go that far. Not at all. I would almost go the opposite. I think, for all the Gen Z listeners, I apologize, I do not call you Gen Z, but I think they're very curious and they're much smarter than we were.

Laurie (36:43.086)
Mm.

Aldo Sohm (36:43.375)
because I get to see this and I talked about it last year at a James Beard event. They also be said that they don't drink as much. I don't see that either because I wrote Wine Simple. I targeted also the Millennials as a result with that book because look, it's very, we have just forgotten how intimidating it is to open a wine list and order a bottle of wine. It's like me going to a doctor's office, right?

This might be the greatest specialist and the most famous doctor, but after the second sentence, that person changes the language on me. He just talking in regular English to me so I can understand what he talking about. Or same with a computer place. So what they actually do today, back in the day, you gave us, know, in my case, as this is in wine simple, you gave me Bacardi Coke. This was my entry level. I drank it. No questions asked. They actually researched today. What are they putting in your body

Laurie (37:18.648)
Mm-hmm.

Aldo Sohm (37:41.047)
in their bodies. They're conscious to calories, right? And had a friend of mine, I spoke with his son for a long, time because I wanted to pick their brain, right? What are they curious about? What are they afraid about? And I learned an interesting phenomenon, right? They drink agave-based spirits. And I kind of was, mind me asking why? Because this makes me curious. And it's because of, you know,

The way it breaks down easy the alcohol, it's easy digestible and it's lowering calories. This kind of stuck with me because then I realized this is a cycle because how long can you drink hard liquor before you move? So this is a cycle, but there's a high spend client coming our way because I mean how much is a bottle of Agave based spirit, right?

Laurie (38:27.64)
Mm-hmm.

Aldo Sohm (38:38.863)
with its mezcal, with its tequila, they go between 50 to $100 and more, right? So when I started drinking wine, I did not buy, I mean, I was the extreme example, but it only didn't happen that often, but I didn't buy a $100, $300 bottle, a $200 bottle of wine, right, or tequila, not at all. So I give them lots of credit, right? It's just, look, it takes time, it's a cycle. And they're curious, they ask questions. I love working with

Laurie (38:57.258)
Me either.

Laurie (39:08.654)
great. I agree. I said, I think it's just cyclical. I we didn't all start. I really didn't drink wine till my late 20s, I want to say. I used to be in technology and switched over to the wine world as a second journey. So I think we're expecting a lot from them at such a young age. And I think you're right. They're used to the finer things in a lot of areas of their life. So I think they will come around and they're going to

Aldo Sohm (39:36.089)
We had the grandpa and grandmothers finger non-stop. You guys, right? We just have forgotten that one. And we thought it was a annoying.

Laurie (39:40.654)
Yeah

Right? Oh my gosh. Aldo, this has been so much fun. I feel like we could talk for another couple hours, but I know you have to get out there and make sure everybody has fabulous wine with their dinners this evening. So I just want to thank you so much for coming on The Sipping Point and sharing your Gruner Veltliner with us. And I look forward to seeing you in a couple of weeks. All right, cheers. Thank you. Oh, don't, no, no.

Aldo Sohm (40:05.869)
I'm looking forward. Cheers! Thank you for having me.

Laurie (40:14.2)
Thank you.