Andre Hueston Mack on Breaking Wine Rules, Frasier Inspiration & Maison Noir’s Wine Revolution

Join Laurie on 7/31 in Easton, MD for La Dolce Vita: Sip & Savor the Taste of Italy. Get all the details and purchase tickets HERE

Summary

What do Frasier, DIY hustle, and bold wine labels have in common? Andre Hueston Mack. In this episode, award-winning sommelier and winemaker Andre Hueston Mack uncorks his unconventional journey—from a desk job detour sparked by a TV show to launching his edgy, inclusive wine brand, Maison Noir. He gets real about making wine fun, trusting your own taste, and why accessibility should be at the heart of the wine world. Plus, we dive into the creative inspiration behind his eye-catching labels, his hit Bon Appétit series World of Wine, and the myths he’s busting one bottle at a time. 

Wines Tasted 

O.P.P. Pinot Noir

Oregogne Pinot Noir

Check out Andre's website or watch his show World of Wine on YouTube!

Join Laurie on 7/31 in Easton, MD for La Dolce Vita: Sip & Savor the Taste of Italy. Get all the details and purchase tickets HERE

Transcript

Laurie Forster (00:29)
I'm super pumped about this week's episode. I'm gonna bring our guest in in a minute and you are gonna be really excited about it. But in the meantime, I just wanted to invite you to join me on July 31st. If you're in the mid-Atlantic area, I'm gonna be doing an event called La Dolce Vita. We are gonna explore Italian wines by glass here in Eastern Maryland, my hometown, which is a great place to come for a long weekend.

Laurie Forster (02:24)
Andre, welcome to The Sipping Point.

AHM (02:26)
Hey, I'm excited to be here.

Laurie Forster (02:28)
Hey, me too.

I think there's so much to talk about, but I always love, and I know a little bit about your story, but I know my listeners want to know more, talking about people's origin stories, how they got into wine, because it's not many of us that grew up drinking wine at the dinner table and destined to be a sommelier. So tell me a little bit about how you, know you're a career changer. How did you make that switch and what inspired you?

AHM (02:50)
you

Well, I mean, I think the inspiration, a lot of the inspiration came from watching old episodes of Frasier. So in midday, back in early 2000s, I think they used to play back to back to back episodes of the show called Frasier. And I never was really a fan of the show, but I felt like I had to, I had to watch it. couldn't find the remote or something like that. But what was interesting was, that that show, which was about two pompous brothers,

Laurie Forster (03:07)
huh.

AHM (03:22)
But what I really centered in and honed in on was their camaraderie around wine, and how they talked about wine and how wine was this thing, and they made fun of themselves. And that was the key, right? That was a key and the catalyst to get me to walk into a wine shop for the first time in my life. Because, you know, from the outside looking in, you don't look like, if you don't see anybody that looks like you, you don't think it's for you. And just culturally, like nobody in my family drank wine. So it was just a different

thing. you know, that show, you know, it's funny because I, I normally don't give it as much credit as I should. But it is. The show really, you know, put me right in the front and center in wine. And never did I think that being in wine would ever like make me be this person who I am today. It was just more about making my life better. Right. Like wine is supposed to

Laurie Forster (03:54)
Neh heh heh!

Yeah.

AHM (04:09)
pair well with other things in life, like that book you're reading, the music you're listening to, conversations with friends, right? It's all supposed to make those things better, right? And I didn't think that. then I got into wine, and then I got into, I caught the wine bug and that was it, right? It was like every waking moment, I was talking about wine, drinking wine, tasting wine, studying wine, and found out a way, I was currently working in a restaurant, but they didn't really have...

Laurie Forster (04:23)
Yeah.

AHM (04:31)
a lot of wine. So I love Red Lobster. It's one of my favorite places to ever eat. But when I worked there, they only had three wines on the wine list. And they were all white Zinfandel at three different. Actually, two were at the same price point and one was at a different price point. So I don't know why. But it was just an interesting thing. And that got me back into restaurants watching Frasier and then got me back into working in restaurants with with wine list.

Laurie Forster (04:54)
Have you ever met Kelsey Grammer or anyone from the show and been able to tell them how much they inspired you?

AHM (04:59)
No, I haven't. I've seen Kelsey Grammer, but like before, right? I would say like early, early aughts, right? So like, but, but also, I think he stopped drinking too. So you kind of don't, you know, I'm not sure if he drinks anymore. I could internet do your thing. Correct me if I'm wrong. But yeah.

Laurie Forster (05:12)
Okay, awkward. Yeah.

Right. Well, I know obviously you've been a sommelier a couple very prestigious restaurants since then the French Laundry and Per Se, you know, wow, what did you obviously you delved into wine and you were studying extensively. Did you follow any kind of organized format like the court or was this all self taught?

AHM (05:38)
Well, it's all self taught. mean, I think like, well, you have to realize is that those and those entities existed, right? So yeah, I was on the path, but like, I hadn't even taken I've just taken the entry level. So there's not much information. You got to think about the state of the internet. There's no smartphone, right? So I think everybody starts to think, you know, the smartphone is like, maybe 17 years old, right? But the but the idea is, is that there wasn't a lot of information anywhere. So I took the first level of everything in Texas. And that was it.

Laurie Forster (05:49)
Mm-hmm.

Right?

Mm hmm.

AHM (06:06)
And then it was,

Laurie Forster (06:06)
Yeah.

AHM (06:07)
it wasn't until, you know, I would say from watching those reruns of, of, of Frazier. And so I worked at the French Laundry was probably less than 24 months. So it was a very, very quick time in my, in my life where it was all focused on wine. And, know, I got a job working at the French Laundry and really had no fine dining training. Yeah.

Laurie Forster (06:15)
Wow. Fast track.

Wow. It sounds

a lot like, I don't know if you know, Kristie Norman. ⁓ And she is like a fast tracker too, right? She just went right for it. She's so young and we had her on the show previously, but that's an amazing story. How did you, you know, obviously you were so much more knowledgeable. You have this talent, but you're walking into a place like the French Laundry. Is it intimidating? Are you like, I don't know about this. You know, this is the top of the top.

AHM (06:29)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Laurie Forster (06:53)
Am I, you know, do I level up here with these other Somms?

AHM (06:58)
Well, yeah, totally. Well, I mean, I think like, yeah, it was intimidating, right? Because, you know, it was named the best restaurant in the world when I worked there. And then it's an environment that you're not used to. But also it's something that I'm very curious about. And I feel like curiosity is really, you know, the key component or the draw to the wine community. I feel like people have lived many different lives doing other different things, but they're drawn to wine because of the curiosity. And so...

what you find yourself is around people from across very diverse backgrounds for what they do for a living or where they came from. But wine is this conduit that brings us all together. And so that was it. And so I was willing to do the work. I worked maybe 45 days, 44 days in a row. I was gung-ho because I needed every single day that I worked there to be like two or three. The more experience I had, the more things I could see.

Laurie Forster (07:48)
Right.

AHM (07:52)
The more things I could get underneath my belt made me feel comfortable. I did the pre-shift meeting every single day. And that was very hard, right? Because you're giving this meeting to your colleagues, who essentially, there are no other people into what you're doing as much as the people that you're working with. And so I think it was a combination of all those things. Yeah, but it was very hard. But yeah, I I never felt like I didn't belong.

Laurie Forster (08:10)
Mm-hmm.

AHM (08:17)
I just knew that I needed to work hard. I needed to show that. everybody thinks they work hard until they actually see somebody work

Laurie Forster (08:18)
That's great.

That's true, right? Well, I love watching your videos or your social media. One of the things that I love about it and I feel passionate about as well as an educator is making wine fun and approachable and in a way that everyone can understand, but not making people feel like you're dumbing it down either. So, you know, how did you come to your style, if you will, where you're able to kind of talk to people in layman's terms?

AHM (08:27)
Yep. Yep.

Laurie Forster (08:53)
You're not thrown around the pH and the malolactic necessarily. How did you come to that? Because when you do the Somm training, it's sort of sometimes the opposite. You're being trained in a way that has all the complications and all the details. What do you think kind of brought that whole style together for you?

AHM (08:57)
All

Correct. Well,

I mean, you need to know what I tell people is I was just on a podcast early this week and it was like, you know, your five keys to the good life. And one of mine was is is you have to you have to be willing to do the do the work you have to be willing to to like hone your craft, master your craft, and then break all the rules. Right. So I can it's easy for me to break the rules because I've been to the top of the mountain. I understand what it takes to get there. I understand the language that it takes.

Laurie Forster (09:19)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

AHM (09:36)
and how you have to talk to me. So you have to learn, I have to learn all of that stuff, which you said felt like the opposite. I learned it in the way that they teach it to you. And then when you process it, how do I want to, know, some, and you have to understand who you're talking to. So if I'm at a wine conference, right, where people are in the industry and work in there, then I talk a little bit differently about it, right, versus somebody who's new to it or a novice. My thing is, I think the key to my success has been to meet people where they're at.

right? And don't talk down to them, but like also make it fun. But also this is the way that I taught the staff at those restaurants, right? The French Laundry Per Se exactly what you see, exactly what you really see on the Bon Appetite videos is an insight. Like I'm just not dressed in a suit or whatever. But this is how I talked about wine to, you know, the staff of the world's best restaurants, right? And was a way to for them to and it wasn't a way for them to use those words.

Laurie Forster (10:14)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

AHM (10:29)
that I spoke to them for the guests. That was just language for us, for us to help us understand the concept easier, but then there's a way to talk to the guests about it, but like, so you can understand it. And these are all things of how I taught myself how to learn about wine, right? So how I talk about wine is a direct reflection more so of my own learnings versus me teaching or picking up a teaching style.

Laurie Forster (10:45)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I love that. I always say trust your own taste. That's what I really want to give people the confidence. And I think you in what I've researched, you kind of agree, you know, you're empowering people.

AHM (10:58)
Okay. ⁓

Right, well, absolutely. I mean, the whole thing is that you're an expert in your own taste is what I say. Right, that's my thing. And my thing is, no, bring the power back. Like, you don't need anybody to tell you if you like a cheeseburger or a hamburger. Right, you don't need any, you know what I mean? It's like, know, cocktails don't come with a tasting note. Right, you see what I'm saying? So there's all these extra things that you need to kind of peel away to still it down to get to the point. But like, why are we giving our power away?

Laurie Forster (11:18)
Right.

Mm-hmm.

AHM (11:32)
that some ways job is that they technically work for you. So when you come to the restaurant, they come to the table and you say, well, listen, you know, these are the things that I normally like to drink, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. These are things I want to stay away from. And I don't want to spend more than this. And you can point on the wine list, or you can say it. Right. And that takes everything out and then let them go do their job. Right. Because what they really want is the autonomy to like to, to go out and like choose the things that they've have experienced and pick them out for you. Right.

Laurie Forster (11:59)
Yeah,

AHM (12:00)
The sommelier

Laurie Forster (12:00)
I love that.

AHM (12:01)
is not an arbiter in your taste. The sommelier is a tour guide, right? They put the list together. They understand that wine list and it's their job to interpret the guests, they like to drink and figure out a way or roadmap to find those wines that drink like those in that price point for that guest at your restaurant. And that's what I loved about it. That was a fun part about it.

Laurie Forster (12:05)
Yes.

Yeah. Amen to that. ⁓ Speaking of tasting, I've got a couple of your wines here and you have a wine company, Maison Noir wines. And I have two of them that we're going to talk about. The first one I've known about for a while and I was attracted to not only the label, but also the name, the OPP Pinot Noir. You also have a Pinot Gris. Tell me how you came to have, you know,

AHM (12:24)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yep.

Other people's pain now?

Laurie Forster (12:48)
Not all Somms yeah, not all Somms have wineries. How did this develop? Because this takes it to the next level.

AHM (12:50)
We did.

Well, I mean, to be honest with you, this was the next step, right? This is the reason why I left a job, like, Per Se You know, most people who hold those jobs, those are, few and far between. And people hold onto them forever. And, you know, I had worked at Per Se for three years, and I decided that I wanted to continue to learn about wine. And I felt like the best way to do that was to make my own. And by doing that, can scratch, I could scratch several other itches I had. You know, I really.

I really wanted to be an entrepreneur. And I really wanted to have more creativity in my life. And sommeliers are more akin to a curator. We don't make anything. We collect inventory lists and put them together. And we were knowledgeable about them, but we didn't make anything. And so, yeah, I decided to quit. I walked away from the job and said, I was willing to give up the good in my life to see what the great looked like.

Laurie Forster (13:45)
That's awesome.

AHM (13:45)
And, um,

and so I said, okay, I'm leaving. I wrote an email to everybody I had ever worked with over the last five years and basically said, you know, uh, you know, I'm always been like a firm believer in putting it out in the universe and letting the universe co-conspire with you to make help make and help shit happen. Right. You know what I mean? And, and I think what a lot of times we're on a podcast to talk about the things that we've already done in life. And so, but, but what about somebody who's listening, who wants to be a part of something that you do the next thing talk about the next things that are.

Laurie Forster (14:00)
Mm-hmm.

AHM (14:13)
in your life. And so I wrote an email about making wine and lo and behold, people came out of the woodwork and really offered up their resources to a dream that I had to be able to build it. So I started the company in 07. And so I think a lot of people, they know me because of YouTube and that's great. But I just don't play a sommelier on television, right? I'm a real one in real life. And I've been making wine for a large part of that time, from 07 until currently.

And so, you know, I've been based out of the Willamette Valley, one of my favorite places to eat and drink, you know, and also to me, I felt like, you know, all the great wine lists I had a hand in building, they really bookend on red and white burgundy, right? And, and so when I thought about pinot noir, and who was doing the best job or what felt the most distinctive domestically, it was really Oregon. And that was the section that I, that I really built on the Per Se wine list.

Laurie Forster (14:36)
Right.

Mmm.

Yeah.

AHM (15:01)
And then I decided that I wanted to champion. But when I finally got out there, it was, you realize that there was a lower cost to entry. It was less competition. Uh, it moved, you know, I don't know. It just felt like my people. And that's where I decided to hang my hat. Um, and we, you know, we stopped and start for quite some time. So the OPP comes from, um, it's called other people's Pinot. Uh, and when I first started, um, I, the first year that I made wine,

I made some very expensive wine. It was all from Seven Springs Vineyard. And what we ended up doing, so those wines were really expensive. They wholesale for $85, $75 here in New York City. I made a couple of barrels. So after that, I didn't have enough money to pay my mortgage. It was more of a hustle than it was a business. And then the next year I decided that I wanted to make something that was more accessible to people. You can't really speak to a younger audience about wine.

with a $30 wine, let alone a $100 or $200 bottle. And so that was like, hey, I'm going to focus on wines by the glass. And what I ended up doing was we were leasing space inside of another winery in Oregon because we didn't have a winery, a facility. And what I ended up doing the second year was I bought eight barrels of finished wine from that winery, and I blended it in with the wines that I made. So that dropped my margins down drastically. I had a lot more of it. And then that was a sense that that was

That was more of the catalyst. That started happening right around 09. By summer of 2010, I stopped consulting for everybody else. And I went full time on the road building my own company. ⁓ But other people, know, is this really all about, you know, everyday, this is everyday drinking Willamette Valley Pinot Noir.

Laurie Forster (16:29)
Wow.

AHM (16:37)
so this is all Willamette Valley. So that's what you're paying for. Generally, these bottles of wines could be upwards of $45, $65. And then here, we have a little bit of stem inclusion, a little bit of whole cluster, anywhere from 8 to 9 % to give the wine a little bit more tannic grip.

Laurie Forster (16:50)
And some nice spice too, which I know is classic.

AHM (16:52)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

A little bit of warm baking spices.

Laurie Forster (16:56)
Very, very nice. Now you designed the label as well, I know, pointed it out. ⁓ How did you, were you right from the start saying, I'm designing my own labels or how did the whole label design fit into your journey?

AHM (17:00)
Yes.

Yeah, well, you know, I just I guess I've had this creative energy. I never knew that. And no one has ever called me creative in my life, except one time when I was at Per Se. And I used to spend about 45 minutes a day just to design the layout of a pre shift meeting notes. And I did it like a magazine layout. And everybody's like, you must have went to school for something like that. And I was like, no, that's probably why it takes me 45 minutes. But like, there was this

And that's when someone said you were creative and I didn't I know I had like played around on computers and stuff like that, but I just I didn't know that and So when I asked a friend to recommend a designer to help me design the concept and the labels for this they told me it was $25,000 and I didn't I didn't have $25,000 I didn't have $25,000 for corks labels bottles for none of the project. And so what I thought was You know, maybe if I get the ideas out of my head a little bit

I can give them to a graphic designer, they'll clean them up and it won't be as much. And what you realize, most graphic designers fucking hate that, right? So they want to start from scratch. They don't like that. And, and so what I ended up doing was I got too far behind the gun and I designed them my own. And so this looks like, you know, my four year old did it, but it's because, you know, I don't know how to draw, right? That's why I'm a graphic designer. But yeah, I became pretty good at it and

I just started to do that. then people in the industry started to notice I started a graphic design firm and I do graphic design for quite other, other clients and other people in the wine business. And I just thought, yeah, it was just fun in a way of just, of like bringing something to life. And, ⁓ and so, and really resonating with the stories, you know, so, you know, OPP, means lots of different things. It's an acronym, right? So, ⁓ if you're from, if you're from Canada, if you're from

Laurie Forster (18:36)
Yeah, I love that.

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

AHM (18:51)
Toronto or Ontario, it's down to Ontario Provincial Police. If it's, if you're from New Orleans, it's Orleans Paris Prison. You know, there's a theme there, right? But, but, know, and if you grew up in the nineties, there's a famous hip hop song called OPP. ⁓ This one is called, yeah, and this, this is other people's Pinot Noir. And, you know, it's an homage to all the people who have a hand in, in making it from the people who work on our bottling line that, you know,

Laurie Forster (19:00)
Right.

Yeah, you know me.

AHM (19:16)
that work out in the vineyards and on our picking team, to all of those people, the people who work on the food service part of harvest, I think all of those people matter and being able to make a wine that they can also afford to, ⁓ I thought was something that's pretty rare.

Laurie Forster (19:31)
Mm-hmm.

I love that. And I love what you said earlier about the new generation of wine drinkers is all the rage of the conversations these days in the wine business, the Gen Z and how are we going to get them to drink more wine? But if I remember back to my journey, I wasn't drinking wine till I was in my late 20s. And certainly you can't afford a $30, $50 bottle of wine if you're 22. And so to have something accessible,

AHM (19:41)
Mm. Mm.

Mm.

Correct.

Laurie Forster (20:00)
that also what I love about the label, you say it looks rustic, but I think it stands out amongst, a sea of chateau looking things, right? And that, you know, it's sort of like somebody says, that, you know, that kind of speaks to me, you know, it has a different look and.

AHM (20:08)
Mm-hmm.

Well, definitely.

Yeah. Yeah. It pops in the, in the, in a, you know, a sea of mosaics, right. And in that way. Um, but yeah, and that's all inspired by, you know, I'm from a military family and we would shop, we would do the one shop a month and we would go down every single aisle of the commissary, the grocery store. And each one was like all of these colors, right. And then you would turn the corner for this one. And next thing you know, it's a, was called the generic aisle. And I don't know.

Laurie Forster (20:19)
Right.

Okay.

AHM (20:40)
Some of you listeners out there may not remember, but this is before grocery stores got smart about branding their own private products. So they would buy from a company called, called the generic company. And so it looked very similar. So it would just be, you know, it would just say wine on the front. So it's like white packaging wine, right? Or it might say red wine. You know, you've seen him where it's like, it would be a can of beer and it would be white and it say beer on it. In other words, say beans. Yeah. So

Laurie Forster (20:41)
⁓

I remember.

Yeah.

Right.

AHM (21:07)
I always just remember how that stood out and popped out. And when it came to keeping things very, very clean and something that can pop from the back bar, we went with the black and white concept, which is fun.

Laurie Forster (21:15)
Love it.

and extremely delicious. you know, it's so great to have an affordable Oregon Pinot as a gateway just to get people into the region. It's one of my favorites as well. And whenever I'm out there, I'm like, you know, I love going to California and I can love the wines. But when I go to Oregon, I'm kind of like, I could live here. Like, I don't know. It's a different vibe. It's a different vibe for me. Yeah.

AHM (21:22)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, that's No, that's true. That is true.

Laurie Forster (21:39)
So before we get to your next wine, you mentioned the Bon Appetit series, which is wildly popular. I really enjoy your kind of lineups like today I'm gonna drink, you know, everything from Trader Joe's or today I'm drinking everything from Kirkland. Maybe not everything, but you seem to have pretty large lineups there. How did you get started with the show and are you solely, you know,

AHM (21:55)
Hehehe.

Laurie Forster (22:02)
responsible for the content or are people kind of saying, would you do this or would you do that?

AHM (22:07)
Yeah, so, you know, I've done quite a bit of TV, you know, just kind of different things leading up to that moment. I signed on with I think in 2021 with Bon Appetit and they approached me. But like many other endeavors, I've been approached, you know, I have, you know, I did a commercial for Johnny Walker. I did.

What do you call it for Johnny Walker? I did at a Cadillac commercial I have a Microsoft commercial and so and I had done a lots of different sizzle reels for production companies because a lot of the owners were into wine and so they knew me or found me through various people so I had like a lot of that underneath my belt I was on

a show called The Taste. So with Anthony Bourdain, Nigella Lawson, Lido Fabri. So I was on there with David Kinch. So I had done a little bit of that stuff. when they approached me, was like, I don't know. they were would you? So they were coming up with content ideas. And some of them, I was like, no, I'm not interested in that. And then finally, somebody said, would you rate wines under $15?

I was thinking about it and then someone says, well, do you even drink wine under $15? I was like, yes, I do. But the kicker was I just said, hey, can I use emojis to rate the wines? And they said, sure. And then that was it. So the content or the themes are something that we sit ahead of time and discuss. So hey, we're thinking about this. A lot of times they'll come up with stuff for me or we'll have a brainstorming session.

Laurie Forster (23:17)
Mm-hmm.

AHM (23:31)
and then they'll take the ideas that we put together there and then present them to me. yeah, and then some of the some of them work are fun to not know at all, right? So when they wanted to do, we did a show about wine gadgets. Like what was great about that was like, I don't want to know anything about it. Like I want to be just as surprised. Right. So so those things work and those things are fun. So yeah. And I think the premise of the show and what's what's always been helpful to me is like is meeting people where they're at. Right. Like

Laurie Forster (23:35)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

AHM (23:57)
Just because I don't shop for wine at Trader Joe's doesn't mean I'm not curious about it. Right? And so, uh, and that's the fun part too, right? It's like, Oh, let me see what these wines are because that's foreign to me. Um, but that doesn't mean that it's inferior to me, right? You know what I mean? Like, so, you know, and that's what I try to explain people is like, you know, it's like, we're wine nerds, not assholes, right? You know I mean? You know what I mean? Like they've like, we're not poppers. Yeah. I think a lot of part of that, that part of it is.

Laurie Forster (24:01)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Hopefully, yeah.

AHM (24:24)
It's like, no, no, it's like, no, we're just really nerdy about it. Right. And so that was it for me. It's like, I don't think any of those are, you know, like, and also I just really refuse to talk shit about anything. Right. I think, you know, publicly, right. Because the world is a savage place. Right. That's like, it's everybody's circling blood in the water and everybody wants that. And it's like, why waste my breath on those things? Like why waste my breath on something negative where I could be speaking positivity and about somebody.

Laurie Forster (24:28)
Right.

AHM (24:52)
and that could affect their lives. I'd much rather do that than waste my breath about doing that. And I think sometimes you found yourself in a place, but I can be respectful of Franzia. It's just not my shit. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Laurie Forster (24:54)
Mm-hmm.

Right. Yeah, I

love that. My daughter is a Gen Z, she's 22. And I was telling her about this list I found of the top 10 sparkling wines. A lot of them are wines I haven't had in many, many years or I've never tried, like Barefoot. And she's like, Mom, that's my favorite. I love that. And I said, well, let's do a series together where you give your perspective. And I was kind of, my mind was like surprised on a lot of these. was like, I already thought I knew what it was.

AHM (25:09)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Laurie Forster (25:31)
but it's not the best selling wine out there for no reason. You know what I mean? when you do your lineup, it's always a lineup of the things that you would recommend. You're not gonna put in there something that's not necessarily recommendable. Okay, so you just keep an open mind, okay.

AHM (25:32)
⁓

Correct.

No, no, I don't pre-taste any of the wines. So yeah, so

yeah, so I might say, let's try these, but none of it is like, no, I mean, if I don't like it, then I'll just say I don't like it. I just don't need to say that it tastes like horse shit. know what I mean? Like, I don't have to be negative or mean about it, right? Which I think some people want to be, right? Yeah, so I don't want to do that, right?

Laurie Forster (25:56)
Mm-hmm.

Plunk, okay, yeah, yeah, okay, gotcha.

Yes, you can.

Well, I appreciate that. Be kind. Be kind. So your next wine is sort of I think the next step up in your lineup ⁓ is and I think I'm going to say this right, Oregogne like Bourgogne And also Willamette Valley, but.

AHM (26:10)
Yeah, me too. All right. Absolutely.

Mm-hmm.

Yep. Yep. Absolutely. Oregonia. Yep. How are you seeing either one of those?

Laurie Forster (26:29)
some Eola Amity hills as I understand fruit and it says on the bottle only 4032 bottles made so limited production.

AHM (26:40)
Correct. this is starts, jeez, look at that prime. I can show you guys, I broke the cord. Yeah, so this is the start of our single vineyard section. these are, when we talk about wine, we talk about real estate. It's about location, location, location. The more specific you can be about your grapes, the more exacting, the better experience you'll have in that sense, but also the more expensive it is.

Laurie Forster (26:45)
It happens.

AHM (27:02)
So more exclusive it is. so this is from a couple of single vendors that we work with in the Yolamite Hills. This is 25 % brand new French oak for 12 months.

Laurie Forster (27:11)
Beautiful. It has such a bright nose to it that right away it's like, wow.

AHM (27:15)
huh.

So yeah, these are, these are like, I don't know. These are, these are just like, this is like a cross like, like cherry pie, apple cider vinegar, um, with a little bit of cranberries. This is like just really beautiful. Um,

Laurie Forster (27:28)
Mm.

AHM (27:30)
And I haven't had any Oregon Pinot Noir in a few weeks, which is rare, but hence all the moaning over here, sorry.

Laurie Forster (27:36)
Mmm.

It's so elegant. love the acidity. Just begs for something to eat, which to me, and food together is perfection, if done right.

AHM (27:39)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

it's got a little bit of tannin, just a little bit, but like, it's tart. It's tight. It's got like this zip to it. ⁓ No, this is this is amazing. I'm gonna have to go eat something after this. Yeah.

Laurie Forster (27:52)
Mm-hmm.

Right? What is your

favorite? What would be your go-to for this wine if you could choose?

AHM (28:04)
Yeah, I think it's always pretty versatile. mean, to me, it could be as casual as a Saturday evening, family evening, right? So those things that you might find, which could be considered somewhat pedestrian. I think Saturday is where mom doesn't want to cook, and that's the day that we eat out and we order food. So it could be pizzas, chicken, lots of different things on the table.

but also like, think for me, you know, I've right now just been in, you know, in the whole, protein on a salad, which doesn't, it does kind of make me sound basic, but like not in that way, but like, but just any type of salad with, with a protein on it. So not just necessarily, you know, chicken Caesar, but like, you know, stuff that like, it could be, you know, when I think about this as like maybe some salmon with some, with some type of citrus,

segments on it and those kind of things. But also it could be something more like a tabbouleh or more like a farro salad with, you know, with like some meat on it or something like some type of protein. So I just think that it lends to like the veggie side of it and the crunchiness and the texture. I like those in a salad. But then, you know, that whole idea of like this is to me more like a vinaigrette that you would kind of lay down and have with it.

Laurie Forster (29:14)
love that. And when I was out in the Willamette, think was might have been the first time I ever had Pinot Noir with salmon. It was a salmon bake at Chehalem Winery. And I was like, this is brilliant. It was so delicious. So I love your salmon idea. I'm totally on board with that. Awesome.

AHM (29:22)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, no. Yeah,

the salmon and the fish, you know, a rich, oily fish is amazing. The pinot, yep.

Laurie Forster (29:35)
Yeah,

perfect. And folks can go to your website and purchase these wines direct, correct?

AHM (29:42)
Absolutely, we ship to about maybe, I don't know, maybe 40 something states or something like that. But you can go to the website. So it's maisonnoirwines.com And you can check out all the things there. For updates and things in general, hit me up on Instagram, IG, under masonnoirwines, or my personal which is Andre H. Mack.

Laurie Forster (30:00)
Love that.

what is one or two wine myths that you see out there that keep getting perpetuated, just aren't true, that we want to clear up. Anything come to mind that, you know, it just keeps going around, but it's just not so.

AHM (30:16)
Yeah, I was gonna say and mine is like really.

It's not like I'm not gonna be labeled Socrates after this, right? You know, it's not that deep, right? But but I do but I do feel like it is things that that keeps being perpetuated and only because right now I'm doing this things with the Vins de Provence. But you know, the darker the rosé color, the better the quality and that is not true at all. Not even close. It's a more individual indication of

how it was made or indication more of what grape was used to make it. ⁓ But definitely not about quality and whether or not it's superior or inferior because of the shade of rosette, the shade of the pink.

Laurie Forster (30:46)
I really like that.

And I will say the same that I hear the same about red wines. You people seem to think if it's really inky and it's dark and it's opaque, it's gonna be this fabulous wine. And I'm a big Barolo, Nebbiolo fan, which, you know, looks light, but it's not, it's not. So it's very deceiving for sure. Well, I love that. And I'm gonna definitely check out what you're doing with Provence wines. That sounds exciting. And I just really appreciate your time here on The Sipping Point.

AHM (31:05)
Yeah.

Correct. Which is, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Laurie Forster (31:25)
It's great to taste your wines. I'll put the links on the website for everybody if they want to check out your site and your Instagram. And Andre, just thanks for spending this time with us. All right. Cheers.

AHM (31:31)
Okay.

Anytime, anytime. It was awesome. Thank you.

Laurie Forster (31:38)
I hope you found that interview as inspiring as I did. will post a link to Andre's website, massanenoirewines.com, as well as listing the two wines we tasted during the show. Go check it out. His wines are fabulous. And tune into his Bon Appetit show on YouTube, World of Wine with Andre Mack. don't forget, if you want to go to thewinecoach.com slash events, you can check out everything about that July 31st.

wine dinner, La Dolce Vita. I would love to have you here. We're gonna have a fabulous evening. And next week, my friend, Tanisha Townsend of Girl Meets Glass is gonna be here. You'll learn about her story of moving from the US to Paris to start a wine tasting business. All right, until next week, cheers.