Inside Napa Valley with Tor Kenward: Lessons from a Lifetime in Wine

Check out Laurie's upcoming events: 

11/5 Uncork The Holidays Tasting (Easton, MD)

12/10 Bubbly Bash 2025 Tasting (Virtual)

October 2026: Treasures of Tuscany Wine Tour - 3 spots left!

Summary

In this episode of The Sipping Point, I sit down with Napa legend Tor Kenward, whose name is practically woven into the vines of California wine history. Tor shares stories from his incredible journey in the wine world—from his early days in Napa to creating his own acclaimed label. We talk about his deep love for Chardonnay and Cabernet Sauvignon, the unpredictable hand of Mother Nature, and why great wine is as much about relationships as it is about terroir.

Tor also opens up about the newly released second edition of his book, Reflections of a Vintner: Stories and Seasonal Wisdom from a Lifetime in Napa Valley, out this month. It’s a beautiful look at the heart and soul of Napa—told through his eyes and decades of experience. We also chat myths, balance, and the art of pairing wine without pretension—plus a few stories that could only come from a lifetime spent alongside the icons of Napa Valley.

Takeaways

• Great wine is built on great relationships. 
• Chardonnay got a bad rap thanks to overproduction—but the good ones still shine.
• Natural winemaking is really just knowing when not to meddle.
•  Mother Nature always has the final say on a vintage.
• When it comes to food and wine pairings, flexibility is the real secret sauce & a little salt can make your wine sing.
• Resilience is as essential as good soil.

Wines Tasted

Tor Cuvee Susan Hyde Vineyard Chardonnay

Tor Vine Hill Ranch Vineyard Cabernet Sauvignon

Tor Beckstoffer To Kalon Vineyard Cabernet Sauvignon

Check out the 2nd edition of Tor's book on Amazon or wherever you buy your books!

Transcript

Laurie Forster (00:28)
So excited for this week's episode, we're gonna be talking to Tor Kenward, who has been making wine in Napa Valley for 50 years. Yeah, you got that right. He is a wealth of knowledge and I can't wait to bring him into the show. A few reminders though, on November 5th, I'm doing an event called Uncork the Holidays in partnership with my friends at the Ivy Cafe in Easton and Hare the Dog Wine and Spirits. We are going to feature five wines to take you through Thanksgiving, the holidays,

New Year's and beyond. And we're going to pair them masterfully with holiday inspired hors d'oeuvres. So we want to get your wine list for the holidays sorted. And we're going to have lots of fun. So check that out at thewinecoach.com slash events. You'll also see that I have an event December 10th, bubbly bash for 2025. That's a virtual event you can join from anywhere in the world. And we're going to have a great night.

where I feature three great bubbles that you're gonna want for the holidays or maybe every day. All right,

I want to bring in Tor Kenward, a winemaking icon, having spent nearly five decades on the front lines as a Napa Valley Vintner. In 2001, he and his wife Susan founded Tor Wines to focus on small production single vineyard wines from esteemed family-owned vineyard sites, including Bexstoffer Tokalon, Vine Hill Ranch Vineyard, and the Hyde Vineyard, to name a few. Tor has collected, get this, 2100 point scores

across his multiple vintages and his 2018 vintage of their flagship Cuvée Black Magic is now a 500 point wine. Wow. In 2022, released his bestselling memoir, Reflections of a Vintner, Stories and Seasonal Wisdom from a Lifetime in Napa Valley, and the first printing sold out. But guess what, guys? The second printing just came out this month.

Laurie Forster (02:20)
Tor welcome to the Sipping Point.

Tor Kenward (02:22)
Thank you, thank you Laurie. I'm privileged to be here.

Laurie Forster (02:26)
Well, I know typically you're based out of the Napa Valley, but tell us where in the world are you today?

Tor Kenward (02:31)
you got me on that one. I'm in Las Vegas, which is not my favorite part of the world, but I got invited to do a few tastings and tell some history and some stories. So there are people that like to drink wine in Las Vegas, I've been told.

Laurie Forster (02:43)
Well.

I was gonna say it's a great wine town for sure. All right, well, I know I let everyone know about the release of your updated book and that obviously is gonna give so much about your background. But if people are tuning in and they're not familiar with you, maybe you could just give us, what was your path to wine?

Tor Kenward (02:49)
It is.

Yeah, well that was 50 years ago, maybe even a little bit more by now. I had a jazz club with some friends of mine in Southern California and we did larger concerts too, think Bonnie Raitt and Tom Waits and others. But I was more or less in the music business enjoying myself, but through that I was introduced to people that knew about fine wine. One of them was a gentleman who had a couple wine stores.

I like to cook, he brought the best wines that were imported into the United States to the dinners and I went nuts. I had to know everything there was. So he said, you know, there's something happening in Napa, and this is the mid 70s. There's something happening in Napa. I want you to go up, and I was dating somebody at Stanford at the time, so it was very convenient.

I want you to go up and visit wineries and give us a report and buy some of the wines to bring down and we can have that, we can represent those wines in the store. So I would go up and this was 75, 76 and I fell in love with the Napa Valley, the people, the place, the vibe and of course the wines. It was...

An extraordinary time when you look at it, in the mid-70s there were less than 50 wineries in Napa Valley. There was no destination restaurants way before 1992 when Thomas Keller came. No place to stay. In fact, the mantra with the growers in particular was, don't let the sun set on the tourists. They wanted the tourists out at night and then they could come up and visit during the day.

It was an ag, blue collar, basically vibe that was Napa Valley at the time. When I finally moved in 1977 permanently to chase the dream, my parents were a little puzzled because they had thought Napa Valley was more well known for its insane asylum than the wines. So it's.

It was a magical period of time. It was a different period of time. I was very fortunate to see the last 50 years on the of the front wave, if you will, of Napa Valley history. You you just wake up sometimes, you go, it's great to be lucky and be at the right place, right time.

Laurie Forster (05:19)
Absolutely. And in your book, it's amazing that you had the pleasure of working with some of the icons of the Napa Valley and just California wine in general, Robert Mondavi, Andre Tchelistcheff And I know you probably learned the lessons from them that you take into your life even now. What are some of the things you learned in those years that were so exciting in California winemaking?

Tor Kenward (05:46)
You know, I looked at your notes this morning and I started to scribble a few things and I write about a few of those things in the book. But you know, if you wanted to still it down, what Robert taught me in particular and Andre was that at the very high end, at the end of the wine business in Napa Valley that operates the best, most efficiently and

has really built the Napa Valley reputation that we know today, that is built on relationships. It's who you know, what your relationship is with those people. Let's say it's a famous grower like Andy Beckstoffer You cannot get grapes from To Kalon, a very famous vineyard in Napa Valley, from Andy unless you have a reputation.

and you have a relationship of some kind with Andy. I'm always amazed after 50 years of being in this business that how much it keeps sort of circulating back to that it's about relationships. So Robert certainly taught me that. He had a huge ego. He was one of the greatest spokespeople or the greatest spokesperson for

for wine from the United States, period, in the last century. But he believed in the survival of smaller wineries, working with larger wineries, and again, building a business based on relationships and open doors. Andre was very much that, very famous, actually in the 70s, more

Laurie Forster (07:17)
Mm.

Tor Kenward (07:23)
60s, more famous than Robert Mondavi. And Andre always had an open door. You could go into his office, you could be anybody, you could go into his office anytime. And Andre, hey, sit down. Unless he had something he desperately had to do, he'd sit down and he wanted to listen and talk to you. Andre also taught me one small lesson too, which I've learned and I believe in.

is that the greatest wines he ever produced, he made wines for over a half a century, were the wines that actually had a little bit of what he called flesh in them. They weren't overly tannic wines, they weren't overly acidic wines, but they had a certain fruit core to them, and everything else was in balance.

And in Napa Valley, we have that ability to find that core in a lot of the years that we work with the grapes and the vineyards that we have. So Andre taught me that and he was right.

Laurie Forster (08:18)
Well, speaking of wines, you sent me a couple of yours to try. So I have the Susan Cuvée, which is from the Hyde Vineyard Chardonnay of yours. And it's the 2023 vintage, just so you know. And I assume Susan Cuvée is named after your partner and wife, Susan. So this is beautiful. And I'd love to talk more about the fruit that's here, but tell me a little bit. I know you are so passionate.

Tor Kenward (08:20)
Hi.

Uh-huh.

I hope so, yes.

Laurie Forster (08:45)
about Chardonnay and you defend it, you know, to the end. Right before we taste this, why do you think Chardonnay gets such a bad rap with wine drinkers these days?

Tor Kenward (08:54)
Well, it's a great question. the answer is a little complicated, but at the same time very simple, I think, to most people. What happened in the, I'm trying to think exactly what decade that was, but a few decades ago, somebody started to, and I won't name names, making a semi-sweet Chardonnay. And it went nuts. And it's still a very, very popular one.

Then other producers started to make Chardonnays in that same style. Chardonnay at one time when I came into the business, well actually a little bit before, wasn't even mentioned in the grape reports. It was very small plantings in the 50s, 60s, 70s, very little Chardonnay in California. But once this sort of semi-sweet cock...

of a Chardonnay became popular. It was planted in a lot of places it shouldn't have been and it was made in copious amounts and what a lot of people were introduced to their first Chardonnays is what I consider really a wine cocktail more than what I would really consider Chardonnay because it had a certain amount of oak character to it. It had you know that lactose sort of popcorn

butter type of thing and a little bit of sweetness. That's a cocktail. That's not Chardonnay. What I make is something that replicates, we like to think of a great white burgundy for those that do like white burgundy. And I'm not the only one. There's quite a few of us in California that feel very proud and think that we can go mano-mano with the greatest Chardonnays in the world. In fact, if you look at the Paris Tasting,

Laurie Forster (10:10)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Tor Kenward (10:34)
every time they do the Paris tasting, not every time, but most of the time our Chardonnay does best, even the great wines from Burgundy.

Laurie Forster (10:42)
it's got this pear, some floral, it really just has a wonderful nose of fruit, which you mentioned obviously is something that Napa Valley can achieve. But I know you also are passionate about using wild yeast, both for the fermentation and the secondary fermentation for the malolactic, which gives it the creaminess and butteriness that some people love. Tell me,

about that. you consider yourself, you know, I know natural winemaking now has a whole thing to it, but do you consider yourself really a natural winemaker?

Tor Kenward (11:16)
Yeah, absolutely. Without putting a label on the bottle or putting it on a bottle, yes, absolutely. Myself, my peers, the producers that are my friends and I consider peers, we make natural wines. We don't interfere with the process. Using natural yeast is a bit of a risky thing, but I actually learned that from spending time at a place in Burgundy again.

called Domaine Romanee Conti The winemaker at the time I was visiting was Andre Noble. And Andre, I asked him a simple question. said, Andre, you've got the most expensive white burgundy in the world. Why is it different? What's unique about your Montrachet

And he said to him, it was simple. was the microflora that had been developing in his vineyard over a long period of time and that he would make the wines without any introducing anything to that microflora. So it was no cultured yeast or any other kind of yeast to make it. It would be that yeast. would be the microflora that had been naturally in that vineyard for centuries.

And that's what we're trying to replicate in Napa.

Laurie Forster (12:24)
Yeah, and it's got a great silky texture as well. You mentioned, and it seems like the story you're telling, I think I know who you're talking about with the Chardonnay and the style, because I think it was one of the first wines I ever had. And it leads me to what happened with Merlot, what happened with Rosé. Thankfully, Rosé has come back around and Merlot is as well. But what are your thoughts on labeling?

de-alcoholized wine and we make an NA wine, we have to put nutrition and ingredients on the label, but when it's wine with alcohol, we don't have to label or share additives that larger wineries or people may be putting into the wine. What are your thoughts? Do you want to see that happen?

Tor Kenward (13:07)
No, absolutely not. don't. Anyway, I'm a producer. I'm trying to keep it as simple as I possibly can. Again, when I talk about our wines and I talk about my peers, we don't add things to the wine. At some time, everybody will probably either naturally or...

Laurie Forster (13:20)
Absolutely.

Tor Kenward (13:26)
just an extra hit will do a little SO2. And that's part of the process all over the world. What's interesting in areas that are very warm areas and not as cool as some of the top growing areas like Napa and quite a few others, Sonoma.

Laurie Forster (13:32)
Mm-hmm.

Tor Kenward (13:42)
You have to stabilize the wine a little bit more than you would in an area that has cooler nights and longer growing seasons. So not to complicate your question, because it's a complicated one, but myself, my peers, the best wines in Napa, the best wines in Europe are wines that in my mind are very, very natural wines.

Laurie Forster (14:04)
Yes. And well, I guess what I fear is that consumers find a commercial wine, they don't know the difference. And therein may lie some of these things that you guys would never use. So it's an interesting topic, I feel like right now in the wine industry. Should we label or shouldn't we label? But obviously we know your label would be very simple. yeah. ⁓

Tor Kenward (14:20)
Alright.

Yes. That's the good news

is we could come up with one label and meet whatever requirements they throw, but I hope we don't get to that point personally. that's, you know, I'm speaking from my side of the fence.

Laurie Forster (14:35)
Yeah.

Yep, well, we have a couple of cabs we're gonna taste here in a second, but beautiful Chardonnay. If people, if you think you don't like Chardonnay, you need to try Tors, Susan Cuvee, the Hyde Vineyard, famous vineyard. know Larry Hyde for decades has been working that vineyard. And again, I guess it goes back to your relationships that you have, that you're having access to these legendary blocks and vineyards.

Tor Kenward (15:01)
Well,

absolutely. And that's great you bring that up, because getting Larry's grapes is virtually impossible for anybody just coming into the industry right now. He has a long, long waiting list. The Hyde Vineyard was mentioned in Wine Spectator's top 30 vineyards in the entire world. And that includes all vineyards, Chardonnay, Cab, Merlot, Pinot. It's an extraordinary place. What's interesting is, and I look

back on all the vineyard partners we have. Everyone is family owned. Everyone is family operated and managed. it wasn't what I set out to do, but that's the way that our business has evolved. And Larry and Chris, Larry's son Chris, really kind of manages the operation, are just great people to work with.

Laurie Forster (15:50)
And in your book, you kind of, we go through it month by month and thoughts from you as to what's happening in the vineyard and kind of relating it to life as well. But one of the things you talk about is bottling and it always seemed that there's some sort of Murphy's law during the bottling process. What's the craziest thing?

Tor Kenward (16:09)
No.

Laurie Forster (16:11)
that ever happened to you during a bottling that was Murphy's law.

Tor Kenward (16:16)
Well, I can just say a few. So maybe stand back. You have this product, this wine that's in a barrel. And it's been, if it's a red wine, two years that you've nurtured this thing. And you followed it. And it's your baby.

You've been working with it over two years. And now you've got to put it in the bottle. And all of a sudden, somebody sends you the wrong corks. Now, you don't have to do, you don't have a trial run. It's basically, it's, the bottling line is there. The industry's evolved to a mobile bottling line sort of business. So the bottling line's there. You can't go back and,

Replace the corks. Maybe they sent you the wrong corks and they told you it was the right corks And you don't know until that moment. Maybe the foil doesn't work, right? Maybe the filler isn't working, right? Maybe the hose going from your barrels to the bottling line breaks down Maybe the glass that you've been working with in the company They sent you the wrong glass for whatever reason and labeled it as the right class

Maybe something with a label you missed. And you went, ⁓ no, this is not the right label or what should be on the label. ⁓ It goes on and on and on. Now, anybody like myself that's been in the wine business that wears many hats, doesn't delegate them out to a lot of other people hates bottling.

Laurie Forster (17:34)
well.

A

lot of room for error there. But I do have a bottling that seemed to hit all of the Marks label, cork and bottle. And this is your Vine Hill Cabernet Sauvignon. This is the 2021, just so you know And so I know Chardonnay and Cabernet, those are your, you know, focus at the winery. And this vineyard is very special to you. Tell me a little bit about

Tor Kenward (17:59)
yeah.

Laurie Forster (18:11)
this Cabernet.

Tor Kenward (18:12)
Yeah, we are single vineyard really oriented and just to balance it out, we're mostly Cabernet and have just a little bit of the Chardonnay. We don't make that much Chardonnay, but that is a vineyard that like To Kalon and Dr. Crane and some of the other vineyards we're working with is, you know, pure Napa. It would be

In anybody's estimation that's been involved in Napa Valley winemaking, it'd be a first growth. It would be in the top tier of all the wines. They started a planning that was in agriculture since the 1860s, I believe. ⁓ It's been, especially in the last 50 years, it's evolved into producing some of the great, great wines in Napa Valley.

Laurie Forster (18:49)
Mm-hmm.

Tor Kenward (18:58)
Harland with their bond project makes wine out of there. We have a couple blocks in there and it's an interesting not to get too deep and too much into the machinery here, but yeah, it's in Oakville, which is certainly one of Napa Valley's great appellations for Cabernet, but it's in the cooler side of Oakville. So it doesn't give you that expression that let's say another vineyard like To Kalon on.

in Oakville has, which would be a little rounder, a little warmer site, a little more generous fruit. It gives you more of that structured fruit, for lack of a better term, but I think it translates with many, more like a Bordeaux than a real California or Napa Valley wine. It's a cooler, maybe the better way to say it, it's a cooler expression, cool climate expression of Napa Valley Cabernet, but.

It's certainly known for a lot of great wines and that 21 is rocking right now.

Laurie Forster (19:53)
Absolutely, lots of black cherry, blackberry, and really elegant. I know this sees about 20 months. I saw a French oak in the aging, but it just is so elegant. And I love that comparison to Bordeaux because it really does sort of, I mean, obviously it's New World, but it does have a little bit of that old world style to it. And might surprise some people that are used to maybe the New World.

riper versions that you mentioned.

Tor Kenward (20:20)
Yeah. I think it's, to me, it's very, very classic, excellent Napa Valley Cabernet. Not to pat my back, but again, I have a lot of peers that I fall into that category too, that are friends, but I think that's Napa Valley at its best right there.

Laurie Forster (20:38)
Beautiful, beautiful. Again, I'm sure relationships with the growers there. Is it the Phillips family? Okay. Okay.

Tor Kenward (20:45)
It is Bruce and Heather. Yeah, it's

I'm glad you brought that up. It's been in the family for three generations now. They've been farming it. Bruce and Heather are really managing the vineyard right now and they're just doing a spectacular job. Wonderful people, but very focused on quality and you know, again, great people to have a good relationship with and a friendship.

Laurie Forster (21:10)
when I've been out in Napa, I've taken some classes at the Culinary Institute and obviously visited a ton of wineries. But I think what surprised me is that it is a really small. I live in a small town, about 30,000 people. It is a small town out there. You you kind of think of Napa as this big thing, but everybody knows everybody and it really does have that small town flair to it. But

People are trying to, I guess, change that, maybe get an airport in there, build it up. what are your thoughts on the future of Napa and keeping it more in that small town agricultural community that you talk about in the book?

Tor Kenward (21:48)
Yeah, agriculture, especially in an area like California and Napa Valley, is constantly under threat because there's, you know, urbanization, which we faced. Actually, if you go back to the, we have the famous Ag Preserve, I believe was put in place in 1968 by a group of vintners and growers that

preserved agricultural lands and made it very difficult for anybody to overdevelop. that every year is under threat. it was in the beginning, actually, the vintners that put that in place had death threats. They were going to put an airport into Napa, a large airport. They were going to cement the river, turned it into more of an LA look than really a Napa Valley.

And you look at, if you look down at one, I mean, it's a beautiful area around Redwood City and actually the peninsula, you go down there. That was agriculture, if you go back far enough, and obviously that was urbanized. It's a beautiful part of the world. But that's what Napa Valley could have been very easily if these restrictions weren't in place. Every year, there is a threat. Now,

Laurie Forster (22:56)
Mm.

Tor Kenward (23:00)
A lot of people know or follow politics with the initiative process. You can bypass this. that's been pushed a few times. It's been defeated. But I think we'll see that time and time again. There's also a battle right now on the To Kalon trademark, whether it is a brand or whether it's a place.

A lot of us like to think of any vineyard and any place that has developed a reputation for fine wine as a place and not a brand. we have at least, everybody's got an opinion on what's a battle and what isn't. If you're a developer, then we're the bad guys. ⁓ But the golden goose and the egg, I should say, is

Laurie Forster (23:39)
You

Tor Kenward (23:46)
Keeping the best vineyards, keeping Napa Valley's ag ⁓ alive, keeping it thriving. Don't threaten it.

Laurie Forster (23:56)
Have you seen the show Yellowstone?

Tor Kenward (23:57)
You know, I'm one of the few that got into a few episodes. liked it, but I didn't really watch all of it.

Laurie Forster (24:05)
It's

a similar kind of story, but a different place in the world, of course. And the battle between the developers and the ranchers, it sounds like a similar, Now, you mentioned Tokolan, and I know in 2011, you lost 90 percent of your vintage.

And you talk about that in the book that has to be heartbreaking, devastating. How do you stay resilient after a loss like that?

Tor Kenward (24:33)
Well, you know, you have to and you're reminded, if you, you know, I'm closing in on 50 years now, you are reminded at least once every year, if not multiple times, that the boss, the person who's really running the game is Mother Nature. And you really don't have complete control. And it's one of the wonders, it's one of the things that parts of the business.

that I love, it also can, it can hurt us. It cuts both ways. We did lose 90 % of To Kalon with a freak rainstorm that sort of shattered the set of fruit in the vineyard that year. Take maybe the saddest year out of my 50 was 2020 where we had the fires.

And I did not make any red wine in 2020. So I lost an entire crop that year. It was heartbreaking. But I did not want to put anything in the bottle that I felt might be compromised. So we made that business decision and went forward with it. But it hurts. So we bow down to Mother Nature.

revere what it gives us, but we're also very much aware that Mother Nature can sometimes be a little cruel.

Laurie Forster (25:49)
Yes, she can. Well, speaking of To Kalon I have your 2022 To Kalon Cabernet Sauvignon. So tell me a little bit about, I mean, this vineyard is, so famed, tell me about what you create here with the To Kalon Cab

Tor Kenward (25:55)
Yes.

Well, it's one of those, I'll step back. We've been working with To Kalon since 2005, and over the years we've gravitated toward 11 blocks in that vineyard. It's 83 acres, but what's interesting, and it's not relatively, you know, a huge dramatic terrain to it, it's a gentle sloping vineyard that goes up into what we call a bench.

with alluvial soils, you look at it and it does not look complicated at all, but all those blocks I work with seem to produce different wines. So here I am with so many years of working with it, our 2016 To Kalon won the redo of the Paris Tasting, beating out Mouton and Scarecrow and Colgan and L'Eau Lascasse and other wines in that.

Laurie Forster (26:59)
Amazing.

Tor Kenward (27:00)
Yeah, it's just this extraordinary vineyard. okay, we've got these accolades. The vineyard has the accolades. There's probably more 100-point wines that have come off Andy Beckstoffer's, To Kalon than any vineyard in the Napa Valley, if you put them all together. Yet, I'll be very honest, I'm still learning about that vineyard. It just fascinates me that...

You can go from vintage to vintage and you think you've got it completely wired. Well, I've never really thought I got it wired, but you would like to think that you've got it wired and you're still a steward of the land and you're still learning what the land will give you.

Laurie Forster (27:30)
Yeah.

It sounds like a little bit like life, you know, when you're, I have a 20 something year old here and they have it all figured out. And then the older you get, you realize how little you have figured out. ⁓ You know, it's just, it's a journey, but the core of this fruit is so amazing and the depth that's there and the fine grain of the tannin and how elegant it is. This is just very, very impressive.

Tor Kenward (27:49)
This is true.

Laurie Forster (28:02)
Is this one of your favorite vintages or what are your thoughts on your favorite vintage from this Cabernet?

Tor Kenward (28:08)
Well,

know, candidly, 22 was a little more challenging than 21 and 23. So it was one of those vintages that if the way I came away looking at it, it was a winemaker's vintage because we had a heat spell toward the end there and you had to work yourself, make that heat spell work for you instead of against you.

And those of us that had been around a little bit longer didn't panic or paid very close attention to what the vineyard was telling us and made exceptional wines. But candidly, if you look at 21, 22, 23, and 24, 22 would probably be the more challenging out of those vintages. But you're tasting a wine that I agree with. Your description was dead on.

Laurie Forster (28:32)
Mmm.

Excellent.

Really, really good. I feel like there's so many myths out there about wine with consumers and just rolling around out there. Are there any myths that you consistently hear as you're doing tastings and wine dinners and entertaining people with your wine that you want to dispel for my listeners?

Tor Kenward (29:20)
Well, the simple one is be flexible about wine and food. The red wine with meat, the white wine with fish, or white meats and so on, is absolutely, it's almost wrong, not right. You can have a nice To Kalon cabernet with a lot of seafood. It's a matter of sort of making some adjustments to how you're preparing.

those dishes. And I'll give you one easy tip. So you have that To Kalon and

Laurie Forster (29:47)
Okay.

Tor Kenward (29:51)
It's maybe a little bit too much. You're tasting the tannins a little bit too much. You feel a little rough while you're having that. Or let's say you have a nice piece of, we'll even go with a very white fish, fillet of salt. And it's just not working together. Not a lot, but a little bit of salt. if somebody can go home...

Laurie Forster (30:11)
Mmm.

Tor Kenward (30:14)
Tonight or the next couple days and you have a Cabernet in front of you or a wine that's a little rough or you feel like it's not really pairing, put a little bit of salt on the side and then try tasting the dish with a little extra salt. Salt actually takes out the tannins and the roughness in wine. Obviously too much and you spoil a dish, but it's just getting that right balance. And I'll give you an example of that that everybody knows.

So what do most steakhouses put on the steaks? Butter and salt. Salt. So there you go. There's very few national steakhouses that don't put on some sort of fat like that, a butter or something, based on a little bit of salt, because just

Laurie Forster (30:46)
Butter. Sauce. salt, yes.

Tor Kenward (31:02)
It certainly, and what's the number one wine that they normally have on the wine list? Cabernet. Not by accident.

Laurie Forster (31:06)
Cabernet? Love that.

Yeah, I know if folks want to get on the wait list to potentially purchase your wines when there are offerings and allocations, what's the best way for them to do that?

Tor Kenward (31:21)
Well, I would go to the website and again there's a little bit of a wait list but I believe that Sierra who runs the show as far as that at the winery, we're very small operation. Everybody goes by their first name and Sierra's kind of the boss around that part of the business. I think she's put aside which would be a sort of a welcome allocation for people that they're interested in dipping their toe in the water there.

the Torr water.

Laurie Forster (31:50)
Great.

Well, I know on October 7th, your updated version of Reflections of a Vintner, Stories and Seasonal Wisdom from a Lifetime in Napa Valley just came out. So I guess folks can find that wherever they buy their books, I'm sure, or even contact the winery if they want to.

Tor Kenward (32:07)
Yes, they can. Actually, we have sold out of the first edition We added an afterword by a good friend of mine, Karen McNeil, who wrote the Wine Bible.

Thomas Keller did the forward along with Robert Parker Jr. So we have some friends that I've known over a long period of time that have also contributed to the book.

Laurie Forster (32:28)
That's great. Well, this has been amazing. I could spend another hour talking with you. You have so many amazing stories. Thank you for sharing these delicious wines with us here on The Sipping Point. And Tor, I wish you all the luck in your endeavors there in Vegas. And I can't wait to see you next time I'm out in Napa Valley.

Tor Kenward (32:44)
Thank you, Laurie. I hope you do look me up.

Laurie Forster (32:47)
I will. Thanks so much, Tor. Cheers.

Tor Kenward (32:49)
Cheers

Laurie Forster (32:49)
Wow, Tor is such a wealth of knowledge of his 50 years in the wine business. I could talk to him for so much longer. And I hope you've enjoyed this interview.

I'll post a link to his book, Reflections of a Vintner, Stories and Seasonal Wisdom from a Lifetime in Napa Valley, and hopefully he can get his second printing as it was just released. So much goodness in there. All right, just a reminder, go to thewinecoach.com. You can click on events, see all of my upcoming events, including the November live event, the December virtual event, and also get more information about my tour to Tuscany next October. There are three spaces only left.

So definitely check it out now. And when you visit the site, you'll be given the option to join my wine crew. You will get emails from me. you'll know about my events first and you'll be on the inside track. All right, if you love this podcast, please share it with another wine lover. And as always, I'm so thankful to have you here and until next week, cheers.