Body Wisdom Academy
Welcome to 'Body Wisdom Academy,' the podcast where ancient wisdom meets modern science in the journey of holistic health and trauma recovery. I’m your host, Alyssa, and each week, I’ll be diving deep into the sacred practices and somatic tools to support you on your journey of deep inner healing, awakening,and transformation. Join me as I interview inspiring guests from the fields of holistic health, somatic therapy, and spiritual growth. Whether you’re seeking healing, purpose, or a deeper understanding of your self, this podcast is you sanctuary. So, take a deep breath and let’s embark on this journey of awakening together. IG: @thealyssastefanson
Body Wisdom Academy
Embracing Feminine Marketing with Heart with Nyk Danu
Are you ready to redefine your yoga journey? Join Alysa as she chats with the inspiring Nyk Danu, a certified yoga therapist who has carved a niche for misfits, rebels, and introverts in the yoga community. Nyk’s unexpected journey into yoga, sparked by a friend's invitation, led her to question the stereotypes surrounding mainstream yoga circles. Her passion for creating an inclusive space is fueled by her love for punk rock and a desire to resonate with those who often feel out of place.
Discover the power of feminine marketing and its role in reshaping business practices for personal sovereignty and success. Their conversation tackles the frustration with traditional, aggressive marketing tactics and highlights the beauty of authentic, heart-centered approaches. They dive into metaphors of flowers attracting bees and the steadfastness of a lighthouse, illustrating how embracing your true nature can empower your business endeavors. This insightful discussion encourages embracing ethics and authenticity to foster genuine client connections and business growth.
Explore the importance of balancing service and self in business with our discussion on mindful marketing and resonance. They challenge the language of traditional business terminologies, opting for a more thoughtful, client-focused approach. Nick shares personal experiences, emphasizing the significance of ensuring a good fit and providing alternative solutions when needed. As they wrap up, they reflect on personal values, the journey of discovering one's niche, and the impact of building meaningful relationships in business. Tune in to learn how to thrive in a saturated market by staying true to your values and vision of holistic entrepreneurship.
Website: https://nykdanu.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nykdanuyoga/
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Welcome back to another episode of the Body Wisdom Academy. Very excited to share this episode. I had Nick Danu join me. I love this woman. She is just a fierce powerhouse and I connected with her quite a few months ago. I was actually a guest on her podcast, the Yin Yoga podcast, and really loved her energy. We connected and she is joining me now on my podcast. So excited to share this episode with you all. So I'm going to read out her bio, and her bio is hilarious and I just absolutely love it. It's so her, it's so unique, so I need to read it out.
Speaker 1:So she is a certified yoga therapist, yin yoga teacher, trainer and yoga mentor. She's a fiercely independent sagittarius, misfit, introvert, bookworm, cat charmer, crow whisperer which we'll get into in this episode buddhist seeker of truth and long-term pro activist who's not so secretly out to save the world. Nick lives in the magical city of Victoria, on the enchanted Vancouver Island off the west coast of Canada. In her weekly public classes, she teaches therapeutic yoga to misfits, gen Xers, sometimes Y, who don't feel at home in mainstream yoga circles, the rebels, underdogs, introverts, neurodiverse, geeks and bookworms. As a yoga therapist, her specialty is helping misfits with back pain and anxiety.
Speaker 1:Nick has been practicing yoga since 1998 and teaching since 2004. She holds a 300-hour, 500-hour and 800-hour yoga teaching certificate and recently did 2,300 hours of Chinese medicine and additional biomedicine studies. When she's not teaching yoga, you will likely find her in the woods feeding birds and squirrels, walking on the beach or curled up with her fella watching Star Trek or anime. Welcome, nick. So one thing I have to touch on is so I love that you work specifically with misfits, people who don't um typically fit into the mainstream yoga space. Can you expand on that and like what? What made you realize that there was actually a need for that in the market?
Speaker 2:Well, what I realized. I realized it at a point when I was teaching and my classes were full. But I'll backtrack a little bit and just say well, I am one. So when I first went to yoga, I actually got tricked into my first yoga class Like I had no desire to go to yoga. I was a kind of punk rock, heavy metal, edgy, you know kind of gal. I was a hairdresser at the time and a couple of my colleagues were like, oh, let's all go to this Monday morning beginner yoga class, it'll be so fun.
Speaker 2:And my stereotypes of yoga, because this was like 1998. And so my stereotypes of yoga even were from the 70s of like some older woman my mom's age and a unitard with a long braid and her Birkenstocks. I was just like no, that is not my jam, like no, I don't think so. That's something my mom and her friends do. I have zero interest. And they just kept pestering me and it was Monday morning and that was my day off and I was like not a morning person. And finally my one friend said what if we pick you up, bring you a latte and drive you home? I was like, well, okay, I mean then I don't have to get up so early. So we went to that first class and right from the first class I was completely hooked. I remember after that saying yoga forever, like forever. And so I realized that I had this stereotype about yoga and I mean all you have to do is go to Instagram and do hashtag yoga and oh my God, the stuff that is out there. So I realized that a lot of the people that I really like to hang out with when I'm not working weren't doing yoga because they didn't think yoga was for them, either because they were too edgy or they didn't want to kumbaya and be vegan. And I just thought at a point it made a lot of sense to me to try to start working with people who I would kind of connect with anyways, because at the time when I was still living in Calgary and I had the yoga teacher's dream of all self-run classes all full with a wait list, so business was good, couldn't fit in another class, and I'm an introvert, and so when I'm not teaching I'm kind of at home, cocooning, you know, or by myself or maybe with one good friend occasionally, and I would just when they were all in their final stillness practice I would kind of look out at the room and I would realize that, like, although I loved these people as, like you are a fellow human, so I love you, I didn't have anything in common with any of them.
Speaker 2:And it really struck me that, you know, I should niche a bit more. And I was already working with people with back pain, and so I started, you know, talking to my friends that were hairstylists and all my friends that were tattoo artists and being like, why aren't you doing yoga? Like, and they were all just like, ah, I don't think that's for me either, because they aren't in shape or they're not flexible, or they're not woo, woo or whatever. And so I really started talking to them a lot and kind of finding out, like, what their concerns were. And so that's kind of how I came up with yoga for misfits, um, eventually, yeah.
Speaker 1:Cool. I love it. Probably another reason why you and I connect and get along. So a lot of people don't know this and they laugh when they find out. I went through a long punk rock phase in high school. Oh yeah, Um, I was a huge no effects and misfits fan and nice AFI and I wore the whole the plaid skirts, had the black under my hair piercing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was me for sure. So the yoga for misfits actually is a very subtle little wink to the band as well.
Speaker 1:Most people don't catch it, but yeah, I thought maybe I love that. Another thing that we really have in common is that we have a very similar mission of guiding people home to their bodies, but also we have a strong desire to help people on the business side of things and the marketing side of things, which is what you do, and I love it. So what, what kind of drew you to make that transition not the transition, because you do both, but to also help people build their yoga business and market it?
Speaker 2:Um, it actually just kind of fell in my lap the first few times. So I would just have, like friends that were yoga teachers say, hey, you can have some. Can I swear on this podcast, please do? Okay, I thought so, but I thought I'd just better check. You kind of have your figured out when it comes to this whole business thing, like would you mind giving me some some tips, right? And these were friends, so I would just kind of help them with some things. And you know, then that became more and more frequent where I was getting more and more yoga teachers, because then they'd tell their friends and people were just coming to me and I remember at one point you know we all have those good friends that are just going to tell you stuff that's like obvious, but you're missing it. You know we all have those good friends that are like, why are you doing this? So I had a good friend once. So this is when I'd moved out to Victoria.
Speaker 2:I was only teaching very part-time because I had given up my whole life and gone back to school. So I was a full-time student, tiny bit of yoga on the side and then also working a little retail while I built up my yoga classes. And, um, you know, I was telling one of my good friends here that I was doing some work with this yoga teacher on her business and she's like, oh, what do you charge for that? And I said to her, I'm not charging her. And she looked at me and she said you're selling shoes and you're not charging for business consulting. And I was like, holy fuck, you are right, what the hell am I doing? So that was kind of when I started trying to figure out how do I want to do this. And you know, now I work one-on-one with people. But I also have a course that runs once a year for folks that are kind of starting out and can't really afford one-on-one coaching. It's a group program called marketing with heart. Um, but it took me some time to kind of get all of that going. But the reason that I do it is because it's going to sound a little hokey, but bear with me.
Speaker 2:I believe that yoga changes the world. I really do, and not in a big flashy you know way, but like slowly one student, one breath at a time, right, one balanced nervous system at a time that affects their family and their community, et cetera, et cetera. And here's the ripple effect. So the other thing I know is that I can only teach so many people and that there's a whole bunch of yoga teachers out there who are heartbroken and forlorn and broke and are on the verge of giving up teaching because they literally cannot feed themselves and teach yoga. So that became really clear to me in my own journey. I can briefly tell you about that story.
Speaker 2:And then I did a whole bunch of study on business and now I see it all the time in yoga teachers and so that's why I wanted to step into that role. So how I came to that? Aha, because they don't tell you this in teacher training you graduate and you just think, oh, just start teaching and I'll make enough money to eat organic and go on trainings and wear organic cotton leggings. And no, none of that happens. And I was at that point about three years in, I had been teaching about three years and Easter weekend was coming, which meant I was going to have Friday, saturday, sunday and Easter Monday off, because Canada it's kind of a bank holiday and I really needed those four days off because I'd been going like six days a week for like three years, also working a part-time job while I was building and so I really needed the time off. So I was super excited about it. And yet when I did the math, that meant that that month's groceries were going to go on my MasterCard.
Speaker 2:And I remember I get a little emotional talking about it, but just literally falling to my knees, crying Like why am I broke? I'm meant to do this. I know I'm meant to do this. I can see it on my students' faces when they leave. I get the feedback from them. I know I'm making like a real difference in the world. And yet this part is not working out. And at first I thought, oh, you just get another class, just get another class, just get another class.
Speaker 2:And at one point was teaching like 15 to 16 classes a week as a highly sensitive introvert. And then like going home and being like, oh my God, I'm totally overstimulated and I feel like I'm losing my mind, and so I really I had a rough time at the start and for that long weekend, so that was like the Thursday before the Friday. I essentially cried and pouted for most of that long weekend and then, by by Sunday and approaching Monday, I just started to get mad. I was just like no, fuck this shit. There are yoga teachers out there making a difference and making money, so I just need to figure out what they're doing that I'm not doing. And so that kind of started my journey and you know I went through all of the. That kind of started my journey and you know I went through all of the.
Speaker 2:I took an online business course, which was a good, a good course, but it was lacking a little bit of the the soul aspect it was. It was a female led course at least, but it was still very kind of online schtick marketing kind of you know that whole thing. And I was just so I had to take everything I was learning and then re-translate it in my brain into like how can we do that in a heartfelt, soulful, non-slimy way? So I did that. And then I did, you know, of course, every free webinar I could get my hands on, every little mini course, and, just like dove headfirst, I decided that long weekend that I wasn't going to spend any more money on training and yoga, that all my extra money was going to be business training. And I did that for about three years and it made all the difference in the world. Not only did I start changing the way I was doing what I was doing so that my income doubled, but I also just opportunities that had been there the whole time.
Speaker 2:But I wasn't listening because I was so focused on just get another class, just get another class. So things like you know, my students would say you should record that guided relaxation you do at the end of class. I would, I would buy it and I'd go oh, you're so sweet. And then nothing, you know. So it's like when I opened my eyes to the fact that I had to think outside of the box, when I hit that rock bottom, so to speak, in my business, then all of the ideas and things that they were saying to me started landing.
Speaker 2:So then I was like, oh my God, you should record that. They would buy it. Like what are you doing, you idiot, why are you not recording this? And same things with yoga. Simple things like where can I get a good yoga mat? I was sending them to a studio and they're like well, can I just get it from you? And I would just go no, it's like can't I get it from you? Yes, yes, you can. I'll take your check right now, actually, and I will sell you a yoga mat. So those kinds of little things, in addition to totally reworking the way that my classes were run, allowed me to kind of like have complete sovereignty in my business and also double my income and get down to 10 classes a week instead of the 15 insanity. So that's kind of how it started, yeah.
Speaker 1:I love all of that and I'm sure anyone who's listening, who's either a yoga teacher or some type of practitioner a healer resonates so much with or some type of practitioner healer resonates so much with you know, we spend so much time focusing on being like the best practitioner, healer, yoga instructor that we could possibly be and we take all the trainings and all of our time is invested in that and we don't realize that there is a whole other world of like marketing and business that you focus on. And guess who's killing it in this industry is not necessarily the people with the most certifications and trainings and the best practitioners, healers, yoga instructors out there.
Speaker 1:It's the people who are really good at the marketing and sometimes the people whose ethics aren't in line as well, 100%, and that is what's starting to get a lot of people frustrated in this industry and lack trust in people who are selling programs. They're losing trust in a lot of practitioners and instructors because they've invested in programs of people who are just really good at the marketing but don't actually have the skill set or the trainings or the ethics or the morals or the values that align with them. So, or the soul, or the soul. So I love what you're doing, cause I think it's so, so important. It's so aligned with my mission and my purpose as well, cause I also just saw a need for that. And, yeah, it's, it's for me, and I don't know if you've experienced it yourself, but nothing has helped me heal more than starting my business, because it brings up all your shit, like everything that you were saying, like even just that, like, oh my god, I'm closing myself off to opportunities like what am.
Speaker 1:I doing like why am I just going?
Speaker 2:hello, would you like this? And I was like no, no, I'm good, I'll just keep slaving away for nothing and losing my mind it it's fine.
Speaker 1:And I think, like that, one of the reasons I love so much about the business that I do is not only helping people heal, just like you do, but also it's like helping people become empowered and confident and stepping into their purpose and dealing with all the shit and all the wounds that come up when they step into that part of their lives. And you're creating such a ripple effect because now it's like you're not just focusing on you know, your class or your client. Now you're creating a ripple effect by helping others grow their business and just help this ripple out throughout the world, which is so amazing. So share more, please about marketing with heart your business. Is that what it's called? Marketing with heart? That's what my course is called.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so share a bit about that. Well, what I realized when I started really trying to dive into learning marketing is that a lot of it was really masculine. A lot of it was you know, and we all see it I'm sure every female listening to this is nodding right now a lot of this kind of bro marketing stuff. And although that first course I took was led by a woman, she still had a lot of that happening and so that was the retranslating that I had to do. It's like can I have a successful business and still be taking a feminine approach to marketing? And I say feminine approach because I don't necessarily mean like, because I think that men can market in a feminine way. For example, my marketing coaches, I would say very feminine in his approach. He's very ethical, he's very heart-centered, he's not at all doing that whole bro hustle thing. But I think because mostly, especially in the past, men have dominated this industry of marketing, women get stuck in this trap all the time. I was listening to a yoga podcast not long ago. I actually had to stop listening because every episode where she was talking about pricing or mindset or whatever, I was like throwing up in my mouth a little. I was just like oh my God, you have drank the bro marketing Kool-Aid, just stop. There's other ways to do this. So I have some ideas on that.
Speaker 2:A few metaphors First of all. I like to think of, like you know, the, the aspect, or the yin aspect of things is receiving right. So if you think about a flower and a bee, you know the flower's just there, being the gorgeous thing that it is, and then the bee is coming in and pollinating it, like the flower's not running around looking for bees going hey, hey. You know, now I'm not saying we shouldn't market ourselves, we absolutely should, but there's a, there's a, there's an energy and a kind of desperation that can come out sometimes. Or another I think metaphor that I love for the feminine aspect is water, because water can be super soft and gentle. Water can also carve through rock.
Speaker 2:And I feel like sometimes, when we hear that, the divine, feminine or feminine that we think that it's all about being soft and not speaking our truth, and that's not at all what I'm talking about here. I'm just saying can we talk about it in a way that is with heart and with our own true nature? And then the other metaphor that I love is of the lighthouse. So lighthouses are just solid, grounded and shining. They're not running around the island trying to find sailors to rescue, right, they're just saying here I am, here's my light, here's the safety. You know, come this way, this is where you need to be.
Speaker 2:So that's kind of the metaphor that I often think about the most whenever I start to feel like I may be getting a little bit too tempted to do some of this other marketing is I'm like would a lighthouse do this? Probably not. And then there's all these words out there that I've really been thinking about lately, that we always hear in marketing culture, which I have like a, you know the masculine and then, on the other side, I've come up with more feminine versions of what these should be, in my opinion, in a heartfelt business, or a more feminine aspect.
Speaker 1:I love that, I love all of that. And you know, it's funny how people just automatically assume that business is masculine and because it has been dominated by men in the past, that's why we view it that way. But like business can be very feminine, it could be done in a very feminine way, just like you were saying. Of course, we still need to access our masculine because we have both energies within us, absolutely.
Speaker 1:But even just working in alignment with our human design or our cycle, right and not following like the typical, just the typical hustle, day in, day out mentality and just these mindset shifts right Like really coming home to our bodies, listening to our own intuition, listening to what feels right for us. And there is so much noise out there in the business space and you can get pulled in so many different directions. I have I've experienced them all because that was how I had to know what felt right to me and what didn't. Like I tried different things and I was like, oh, this just feels off. I feel disconnected from my soul. Now I feel out of alignment. Now I'm not even enjoying what I'm doing. Time to like take a step back and change my approach. And we can lose that because so often we'll work with maybe more authoritative type of coaches who tell you like this is the structure, this is the cookie cooker blueprint, this is what you need to follow, and it doesn't work that way, like we're all so different. It doesn't work that way.
Speaker 2:And often what they're giving you is linear, right, it's like step one, step two, step three, step. You know, and I'm like I always think of it more as a circle actually Like it's a circular experience when you have, like, a heartfelt business. It's not like a line of like steps because you know step three might lead back to step one. You know, it's not like this kind of linear progression and this like here's your perfect sales funnel. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the sales funnel, I got one I'm just saying how do we do it? So a lot of the words that I I'll give you a little list of kind of some of the words that we hear, and then some reframes, because I think this is helpful. So we often hear about hustling, right, I think in the feminine approach we're actually also going to praise and prize rest. That we know that if we look at nature, mother nature, there are seasons of growth and activity and there are seasons of rest. And it's from I'm a a yin yoga teacher, trainer. So I focus a lot sometimes on Taoism and Chinese medicine and you know, in that seasonal system, winter, for example, would be the time that you would be kind of like diving deep and figuring out like what do I want for my business? You're, you business, you're kind of really doing the soul work, and then spring is where you would like. That's where you'd start to hustle a little, you'd plant your seeds and summer would be really kind of extroverted and outward and you'd be sort of networking and putting your stuff out. And then fall is where you would actually be clearing space. You'd be looking at like what didn't work, what's not filling me up, what was useless, and you're going to get rid of that. That's the time of letting go so that you create that space for the winter to then begin that process again. And whether these actually happen in those seasons which might be the most natural, or just the seasons of your business, you know, I mean, for the longest time I just would keep adding things in and I would never pause and let things go or stop and go what's not working. And actually, how do I want to envision this? So, replacing hustle with what I call slow marketing, seasonal marketing and relationship building. So instead of hustling, I'm thinking about the other people and building a relationship. Grind gets replaced with purpose. Who wants to grind? I don't even know why. That's a thing to be priced. It's like why would a guy even want to do that? I don't want to grind.
Speaker 2:You often hear male people on YouTube and stuff saying smash the like button. And I'm always like mail people on YouTube and stuff saying smash the like button. And I'm always like, why am I smashing things? So I like to think of that as expressing gratitude for their support For all of those who have subscribed, who have liked, who've shared. Thank you. Very different feeling. Right, crush it. I replace that with thriving. We're not hacking. No, no, we're not hacking at things. We're creating things.
Speaker 2:Productivity again, thriving instead or flourishing, so people can busy themselves with all kinds of things that aren't actually causing their business to flourish. Leveling up Again. I'm going to look at, instead of leveling up, am I making a contribution? Am I flourishing? Am I helping others around me flourish? Getting the sale? So, instead of thinking about making a sale, I like to think about resonance. Making a sale, I like to think about resonance. Does this person feel a heartfelt resonance with me? And then that relationship building, which may or may not lead to a sale, and if it does, when it does, it's going to be a great fit for both of you, and if it doesn't, then maybe you're not the best person for them. Roi, I like to think of that more as a circular economy. So, instead of return on my investment, am I contributing in ways with my finances, time, energy to the world around me in a way that fills my heart? That's more important to me. Quarterly projections could be replaced with seasonal wisdom, like we just talked about, like when is the summer, the winter, the fall of your business, and an attitude of seasonal plentitude right, especially for harvest time.
Speaker 2:I'm going to say sales calls slash discovery calls. So some people actually do discovery calls as an actual discovery call, like I'm here to tell you what I have, I'm going to hear your needs, I'm going to let you know if this is a good fit and then, if it is a good fit for you, if it feels good, let me know. Right, that's what I would call an actual discovery call, because it's both of you going is this going to be a good fit? Unfortunately, what most people call discovery calls are actually sales calls, because their intention and their mission when they get that other person on the call, is to get the sale Right. They're not looking like is this a good fit. Am I the best person to help you? If not, could I refer you to someone else? They're just all about, like you know, hard tactics to get the sale. So I put those together just because I think, unfortunately, the word discovery call has just been totally bastardized and it's just a sales call. So instead so I don't even do discovery calls. Instead, what I do is I create content that I can send out regularly to people who have expressed interest by being on my email list, so that they get such a strong sense of who I am and what I do and how I view things that it's it's a no-brainer for them if and when the time is right, and if it's not, then maybe they move to somebody else, because I'm not for everybody.
Speaker 2:Um, oh, here's another one overcoming objections. Oh, that one. I think anyone who's listening to this probably mostly women, but maybe some men can relate to this too has been somewhere bar, restaurant, concert, whatever, maybe, especially if you're by yourself, because your girlfriends haven't arrived yet and some guy starts sliding up on you with a hey, you want to go out? Blah, blah, blah and you're like thanks, no, I'm good, no, I'm good. And they just keep going, they just keep going and it gets to the point where A you're either feeling annoyed or you're actually starting to get afraid because they just won't let it go. And they just keep trying to convince you that if you just gave them a chance, if you just went out with them, you'd see what a really great guy they are. To me, that's overcoming objections in the marketing world. When you are engaging with somebody and every time they say something about how they aren't sure whether or not it's a fit you're like giving them some reason why you're the one for them. No, you know it's creepy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and they think that it's such a great skill to be so persistent and to me it's like that.
Speaker 2:To me is that's like there's no consent there.
Speaker 1:You know, exactly it's.
Speaker 2:It's it's trying to manipulate somebody in your body. It's totally gross. And and I don't want somebody to work with me because they felt bullied into working with me like that's a horrible idea. I want them to work with me because when they read my material or they followed my podcast or they get my newsletter or whatever it is, they were like this is a hell yes for me. That that's when I want them to work with me.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I'm always looking for is there a resonance? Is it a good fit? Do I even offer what you need? Because sometimes the answer's no. So, for example, sometimes I'll have I have a therapeutic class not far from here that I rent out the space in a church and I run the class, and one of the things that it says two of the stipulations there are and this is one because of how I run the class and two just because of the space I'm in is that, um, you know you have to be able to get up and down from the floor and be okay, kneeling Cause that's part of the class.
Speaker 2:And then the other one is just that if you're hard of hearing, it won't be a good fit, and that's just because of the acoustics of the room, and so I will have people reach out that are not a good fit. I had it happen just the other day, wanting to know, like I can't get up and down from the floor on my own because they're you know, they're a senior, and I'm just like, no, that's not a good fit. But I do know of a chair yoga class, and here's where you can find it right. So when we're focused on is this a really good fit, then if it's not a good fit, we can help them find something that is a good fit right, especially if we have other colleagues and resources. And then I like to think of it as do you like what I'm putting down? Is there a resonance? Is it a good fit?
Speaker 2:And then, if it is, rather than like a sales call or something like that, I'm just inviting people to the party. I'm just like, hey, I have this party over here. I think you might like it, I think you might like some of the people there. Check it out and if it's a good fit, let me know. That's literally how I approach sales. I have this thing. I think you might like it, it might be helpful. Check it out. If it's a good fit, let me know. And I'm no longer going to, you know. I mean I will send repeat emails to remind people registration's closing because people are busy. But like I'm not attached to whether or not they come, I want them to come if it's a good fit for them, otherwise they're not going to show up anyway. They're not going to do the work, they're not going to be there. I have a couple more CEO.
Speaker 2:I did not like that at all. I did not become an entrepreneur to take business culture into my business and if you think about most CEOs, they're not in the day-to-day running of the business. They're sitting in some glass office bossing people around doing that. That's not at all how I want to run my business. So, no, I am not the CEO of my business. I am the sovereign, I am the visionary, I am the creatrix, I'm the maven, I'm the leader. Yes, I'm the boss, all of those but I am not a CEO. If I wanted to be a CEO, I would have gone to business school and I'd be wearing a suit for a living.
Speaker 1:Let's see what else.
Speaker 2:Oh, another one that sometimes I don't love is premium offer or high ticket offer or high end. I prefer full service, all inclusive or lavish as words. I like that Last one that I'll share with you Charge what you're worth oh, I hate this. I'm priceless. I'm priceless. You're priceless, alyssa. Your listeners are priceless. There is no way you could charge what you are worth. You are a humaniceless. You're priceless, alyssa. Your listeners are priceless. There is no way you could charge what you are worth. You are a human being, you are not a dollar.
Speaker 2:So, yes, we have to talk about sometimes with people, especially with women, underselling ourselves financially, maybe not charging enough, because either we don't have the confidence or we've got some stuff about money in our heads. So, yeah, that's a very real thing. That is very real, especially, I find, with the yoga teachers I work with. It's huge because there's also this idea that, like, yoga is spiritual and so we can't charge for spiritual stuff and it is a big. There's a big money mindset issue, for sure, working with yoga teachers, but what I often say to that is it's like, yeah, the yoga teachings are free, but the power bill and the rent aren't, so it's like you still have to make the money. We do live in. The society we live in. You're not running an ashram, and so there's that aspect. But then also, for me, the reframe on that is and because I've been this person, I've been this, I don't need to make that much. I'll just just make this much, you know.
Speaker 2:But what I realized is that the more I bring in, the more I can support things in the world that I think are making a difference. Right, if I'm, if I'm, struggling, I can't buy organic food. I can't go to my local farmer's market and support them. I can't go to my local coffee shop and get coffees. I can't buy organic cotton leggings that are made sweatshop free, perhaps in my country of origin.
Speaker 2:I can't go away and take a training. I can't donate to charities that I believe in. So like, none of that can happen if I'm not welcoming the money in and I believe that people that are in our types of communities. You know, if anyone should have more money, it should be us, because we're going to do smart, ethical things with the money, right? So it's like if anyone should be like, yeah, hell, yeah, I'll make some more money, we should be raising our hands because when we make it, we're going to put it back out into the world in this kind of circular ethical economy way. That's actually going to create change, instead of just supporting some other big billionaire.
Speaker 1:I love that. I love all those reframes so much, and that's so true. The whole money piece when it comes to the spiritual community is something that so many people really struggle with, and I love that. You said that you don't charge your worth because you're priceless. I've heard someone say that before and I'm like, oh, that resonated so deeply with me because I have all different types of price options right, Depending on what level of service you want. Like I want to have programs that are like super affordable, that are actually really good and packed full of really great staff that people can take for that price. And then, if they want more of that attention like when I work one-on-one with people, they get so much of me and of course, there's a higher price for that because you have to charge your services so that both people are happy. It's agreed. People are equally receiving right.
Speaker 1:So it's like you don't want to be serving from a place of resentment because that's not going to help them If you feel like you aren't getting paid enough. But make sure that if you are charging whatever a premium price, if you want to call at that, make sure that you're delivering right and make sure that you're giving so that they don't have that resentment. So like this is what I see often is like usually one party feels resentful and that's the last thing you want. You want both totally feel like they're both equally receiving in that relationship, which is really, really important.
Speaker 1:And there's a lot of gaslighting in the coaching space as well, for if someone doesn't feel happy with their investment, the gaslighting of like that there's something wrong with them for feeling that way, or that they're just not doing the work, and it's like no, if they're not doing the work, what's the problem here? Like what are the blocks? Why aren't you helping them move through that Right? So it's like, of course, there is that equal of equal give and take, of like, yes, you have to do the work, but if you're struggling to do the work right now, let me help you work through that block, because there's something blocking you. So and I think that is that feminine piece in business as well that we were just talking about of like it's not just action, we have to deal with, like, the stuff that comes up internally as well and guide them through that, and that's why it's really important to find someone who is balanced in both the feminine and the masculine when it comes to business.
Speaker 2:When you just said that, it made me feel like that. Think of that like being like water. Right, it's like the feminine aspect of water. If you're helping people and you and there are blocked and you need to know why, I mean you can choose then how you respond to that Like. Maybe that person does need like a little, a little Creek. Maybe that person needs like ocean waves on a full moon.
Speaker 2:You know, like who knows Um and and really being able to be receptive to who you're working with and seeing what their needs are and then making your approach fit with their needs. You know, like, like, how can I be of service? How can I help them? As opposed to like, oh well, you're not getting the success or the whatever. Well, it must be you. You hear this all the time too, in marketing circles, where people will be like. You know well, you know, if you're not pushing your potential clients to like work with you, then you know you're just selling yourself small, or you know, and I'm just like, or maybe you're just not trying to be slimy, like. You know again that metaphor of like being at being with you know somebody that's trying to give you unwanted romantic attention, and the whole time you're just like can I just slide over here and get away from you, like I don't want that in business. You know that's not that's not cool?
Speaker 1:Totally, Totally. And at what point it's like how big do you need to scale, Cause some people they they scale so quick to the place where they are not even able to serve.
Speaker 1:Totally, and this is something I think about a lot they need, like how big you need to be right without having the proper support in place you give to your clients. So it's just something to ask and that's something that I've had to really ask myself too, because I've worked with so many different coaches in this space and many of them have their approach has been like okay, you got to get this in place. You can scale and like I'm like I don't want 30 clients a month and then not be able to give them that service. Like no, I want to, I want to. I love working really intimately with clients. So that's just, personally, what I absolutely love. I also have a community and so I love both approaches. But I love being able to work so closely with my clients and get them, help them see their full potential and really get those those results in that deep, deep transformation. I don't want to scale to the place, personally, where I can't give that anymore, like I'm more isn't better, it's just more action 100%.
Speaker 2:You know, and I'm the same, I think about that often too. It's like how, how much do I want to scale this? And you know, I do know, I do know my marketing coach will sometimes just be like, well, then you just hire someone for that. And I was like, yeah, to a point. But then I'm also now I'm running a team and I'm not actually doing the teaching, which is what I came into this for, like, I came into this for the teaching, not for like teaching, not for, like you know, having team meetings and like delegating all my tasks. Now, don't get me wrong, I love to delegate certain things. I love to hire contractors to, like you know, take things off my plate, especially if that's their skillset and they could do it in half the time I could. But I also, I mean, that's what I mean. That's the difference between being a CEO and being like the creator of this business, like this, this business is me. Being like the creator of this business, like this, this business is me. I'm a holistic entrepreneur that you can't. These are not separate things.
Speaker 2:You know I I, not too long ago, had some health stuff come up and there was a point, you know, just before the summer or before end of summer, where I actually didn't know if I was going to have a business in the fall because I was having some surgery and I was awaiting test results, and so I was like the whole summer. I'm like am I building my business or my legacy? And I really didn't know. And so things became even more clear. Then it's like and there's also for somebody who's I don't want to say driven, because I don't really think I'm that driven, but passionate, I guess, for someone who is so passionate about what they do and their ability of what they do to help the world you know, two surgeries in a year and all that and that healing time of like, oh yeah, I have to take four weeks off here and now you can go back to teaching. And you've got to take six weeks off here and now you can go back to teaching.
Speaker 2:Having that time off to be able to do very little in my business other than perhaps hook my microphone up and make some audio recordings and write a blog post, like I couldn't actually teach For me. All that did was reaffirm how much this that I do is part of my being intimately and how, like doing this for me is not an option. There's no plan B. I don't have a plan B, and so you know and I've been teaching yoga for 20 years now at the time of this recording, and so you know, it was nice, in a sense, to have that pause and to have that little bit of a kind of like life crisis situation, because, you know, a lot of people would have that and they would realize the opposite.
Speaker 2:They would be like I've been wasting my time on things that don't serve me, on things that don't light me up, and I had exactly the opposite. I was like, oh my gosh, I can't wait to get back to teaching, and I can't wait to get back to teaching, and I can't wait to get back to my students and I can't wait to get back to, like, all of these things you know, um. So yeah, and I think that that's what the you know, when I was talking about this seasonal approach, like I had a, you know, kind of a winter forced upon me, um, but like every winter, and especially around holiday time, that's usually when I try to do that where I just, like you know, cause I'm not teaching as much especially over like Christmas, new year's kind of time of year and it's a good time for me to just really kind of look at my last year and just be like, okay, what really lit me up? You know?
Speaker 1:I love that. I love that and you know I pray that's my prayer for everyone to be able to find something that lights them up that much. Pray, that's my prayer for everyone to be able to find something that lights them up that much, and I'm sure we both just feel so blessed to have found that yeah, yeah, I can't imagine, you know.
Speaker 2:I mean went way back when I was a hairstylist. That lit me up like I loved doing that, you know. Um, and then it was, it was time to retire, both physically and also spiritually, developmentally wise, you know, because I was like a closet Buddhist, always reading little meditation books and stuff, even while I was doing hair, and then decided to become a yoga teacher. I was practicing yoga, but you know, when I was doing that, from 18 to oh, was I 32? I can't remember now, yeah, 32. I loved that. I ate, slept and breathed that. You know, I was very entrepreneurial, I was traveling around and I was teaching also back then. So that's how I knew teaching was. Teaching is the through line for me. But then, when it was time for that to go, it was time for it to go. And then, from the moment I started teaching yoga, it was the same thing. I remember even my very first public class. I was like, yep, this is it. Here we go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love it, I love that and what would you say are like the biggest blocks that you see? That come up for your business clients.
Speaker 2:Money mindset, okay. So confusing money as being in opposition to being spiritual, whereas I just think of money as a energy force, right? It's just like you don't look at the sun and say, hey, you're not being spiritual, so I just think of it. Like you know, money is just the way that our service is expressed in a different form. So money mindset, for sure. And then the second thing would be not being clear on who their niche, so who they serve and what they help them with. And part of this is just because nobody's told them, by the way, when there's. Because one thing that is an unpopular opinion, but I'll stand by it is the yoga market is saturated, just like the coaching market. There's a fricking coach on every corner, there's a yoga teacher on every corner, and so in order for you to do this in a way that is going to be, you know, plentitude for you, so that then you can spread that around, you have to delineate what is different about what you're doing. Part of it is just who you are. Of course, people are either going to be attracted to who you are as a person or not, and both are welcome in my. You know, if you're not into me, I'm cool with that. There's plenty of other yoga teachers.
Speaker 2:So not knowing who they serve and what they help them with, or their niche to put it in marketing speak, I would say is the other big problem that they're so busy trying to like they're not being a lighthouse, right, they're like so busy running around the island trying to help everybody that they're not giving themselves that solid presence and shining and saying, hey, here's who I work with, here's what I help them with. If that's not you, that's cool, I can refer you to someone else. And so those are the two things niching, resistance to niching, because they'll also say things like yeah, but yoga is for everybody A hundred percent, but you're not for everybody. Like yoga is for everybody, but there's a lot of people that would not like my classes. And then there's other people who will love my classes. And then there's people who are like I could take it or leave it and I want the people who love me as a teacher and my weird quirky personality and love my classes. That's who I want there. Everybody else can go to somebody else to help them.
Speaker 2:So I think those are the two big ones money mindset and not being really crystal clear on who they serve and what they help them with, and I think part of the problem also with them not being able to have a clear niche is the fact that they are thinking about it from their head, not their heart. So I often say that your true niche it's in your heart. Your job is just to get quiet and still and ask the right questions. And if anyone you know I have a whole video on this If they want it, they can just either join my email list If they're not a yoga teacher, they can just drop me a DM on Instagram or something I'm happy to hook them up with it.
Speaker 2:But I have a whole former workshop I did on niching and all of it is heart led questions that you get out with a journal and you start writing and then, before you know it, you're like, oh, this is who I'm supposed to be working with. But we get so up in our head about it. We start thinking about demographics like gender and age group, and that can be part of it for sure. Like you know for sure, maybe you want to only work with women or you only want to work with men in a certain stage of life. That can all be part of it.
Speaker 2:But there's so much more to niching and that's what took me forever to come up with yoga for misfits, because it's very elusive, like it's not clear. You know people read that and they're like what do you mean misfits? I mean, I spell it out very clearly on my homepage and I started doing that because so many people weren't clear. But it took me a long time to come up with that tagline of yoga for misfits because I was looking at my students and going what do you have in common with you and you and you, your different ages, your different genders, what is the common element here? And it took me about two years of looking at them all while I was in Shavasan, asking them questions, listening to their feedback about my classes. Before I was like this is what it is. You're all here because you don't think you're yoga people.
Speaker 1:And I love that you mentioned that it took you two years, because that is so important to point out, because we can get so overwhelmed at the beginning of building our business, thinking that we have to like know exactly what direction it's going to go in. I'm going to tell you, it's going to pivot a lot and it's going to, like take a mind, your business will take a mind of its own and it just becomes an entity of its own and it all of a sudden just starts to guide you and you see the people that are coming to you. You start to actually see, like, hey, what are? What's the common denominator here? Like what?
Speaker 2:are they?
Speaker 1:all struggling with. Why are they coming to me? Like I never actually expected myself to start doing business coaching. I didn't think I would like it, which is very interesting, but I kept having people come to me asking me to support them and helping them start their coaching business.
Speaker 2:And so I got into it.
Speaker 1:It often is right, because people are like, how are you doing this? Like can you help me? And so you start, and then my approach, very much like you, is very different than the traditional coaching approach that we see in the majority of the coaching space and marketing space, and I really focus on embodiment and working through those limiting beliefs and those blocks right. So I started just falling in love with it because I was seeing how healing it was for my clients. Finding our purpose is so healing. P Finding our purpose is so healing. Pursuing our purpose is so healing.
Speaker 1:And, yeah, I never thought that I would love it the way that I do. So it's kind of cool how those things kind of shift and pivot and they will and I'm sure they're gonna continue to shift and pivot. So just be open to that. And then, yeah, all of a sudden it's just mirrored back to you of, like who you're actually meant to serve. You just have to take the first steps. So those are really important things to mention. And many people, when it comes to their niche, they're scared that if they put themselves in a box, they're going to be closing off opportunities. But it's often the opposite. It's totally the opposite.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know my first incarnation was I had no niche and my first incarnation was I had no niche. And my second incarnation was real yoga for the rest of us, which a little bit more niche, but not really, and then that turned into finally yoga for misfits.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally, I love it.
Speaker 2:And actually it's when you said that you know when people think that when you put yourself in your niche box, that that's going to limit you, the only people who think that are the people who haven't niched Totally you, the only people who think that are the people who haven't niched Totally. As soon as you've niched you're like, oh, that was not at all a valid concern, like there are so many people out there that I can help.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Absolutely, Absolutely. And Kay, let's chat on I want to touch on, so you put that you are. Is it a crow whisper and a cat charmer? Sure.
Speaker 2:Um, I can tell you my very uh, I'll do a very quick version of the crow story. Uh, so get ready for some woo, woo stuff here. So one day I was walking down the street and this crow kept coming from behind me, crossing over me, landing on a lamppost on the opposite side and freaking out. And I was like, okay, I don't know what I did to offend you because I didn't speak crow yet, so I didn't know. I thought I was offending the crow and then I would ignore it and it would do the same, go right across my vision to the other side, and it kept doing this for probably about three blocks. Finally, I was like I stopped and I looked up at it and I was like what are you trying to tell me? Like this is getting crazy, like what are you telling me? And as I stopped and pulled aside and stepped off the sidewalk to look up and talk to it, I realized that there had been somebody following me for many, many blocks. I had been kind of somewhat aware that there was someone behind me, but when I stopped and talked to the crow and then turned to look, I was like that dude's been following me for probably 15 minutes of my walk and I, just my spidey sense, just went and so I looked nearby and there was an apartment building where someone was going in you know, they had a secure apartment building and I just kind of ducked in with them into the building and, you know, went up a few flights of stairs. I didn't live there, obviously, I just was like let's just get away and I stood and watched him stand outside that apartment building for probably about 15 minutes and I went out the back door and carried on with my way. So that was the beginning of my crow whispering well, or more like crow yelling at me and me finally paying attention.
Speaker 2:Once I had realized that like crows speak to me, then I started listening and talking back. And there's been many examples, like one time teaching outside with a bunch of my students and they're getting ready for Shavasan and there's two crows in a tree that are like, and then the students laughing and saying, well, this will be relaxing, and I was like, oh, it's no worry, I'll just ask them to come back. And I would literally look up at them in the tree and be like guys, 10 minutes, do you mind? And they would take off and they would come back right as we were packing up our yoga props when we finished. And then the third example that really cause I'm like one of those. I always have one foot in the woo but also one foot in the skepticism. That's just how my brain works.
Speaker 2:And so the third one that convinced me that I am a crow whisperer was my good friend had some crows nesting nearby. She lives in Vancouver and every time she would go out on her balcony they would be swooping and like coming at her Cause. They had, they had chicks or babes nearby, you know, and they had chicks or babes nearby, you know. And uh, and this would happen, you know, all over the place. Like she was just starting to get like super afraid of crows. So I was out there for a yoga workshop and we were walking around and she saw some crows and instantly put her hood up Like she was just getting petrified and I was. I was like, well, hang on, let me just talk to them. And so I looked up at the crow and I was like, hey guys, she's good, she's with me, like she's all right, she's not after your babes, everything's fine, you can, you can just let her be. And she told me. She went home and from that day on, the crows never bothered her again. I know so.
Speaker 2:So the skeptic in me was like, maybe. And then later and I'm not, I'm not much of an astrology person, so forgive me when I totally bastardized this when I had my chart read I can't remember which planet it is, but it is connected to crow energy and it's like super high in my. So I was just like, okay, so now? Um, now how it looks, is I feed them? Um, usually unsalted peanuts in the shell. They really liked those, um, and all their babes get to know me and I just walk.
Speaker 2:People laugh at me because I walk down the street and we'll just kind of feed a couple and before you know it, there's like a whole murder of crows following me down the street or walking beside me, and I did so many times. I'll see other other people just walking down the street and they'll see kind of crows coming from, you know, behind them and they'll be like what's going on with the crows? And then I'm like, oh, it's you, they're coming to you. I was like, yes, we're friends. So, yeah, that's the crow whisperer story. I seek them out. And now because of that because crows are incredibly smart. Even when we were in COVID times and I was wearing a mask and my sunglasses and a hood and a scarf, they still recognize me when I'm on the street. They'll just fly right in front of me and give me this cute little side head. Look like do you have peanuts for us? And I feel terrible when I don't. If I forgot my peanuts, I'm like, oh my God, I'm so sorry, such a bad crow mom. So yeah, that's how.
Speaker 2:I'm a crow whisperer and cat charmer. Just I don't know. Maybe they know I love them, but they'll just come out of wherever they are, on their porch, in their yard, and they'll just wrap themselves around my legs. And dogs also tend to strain on their leash to try to get to me as well, although I'm allergic to most dogs. So the petting is a little less enthusiastic for my part. But that's the crow and the cats. The cats, I don't know. I think they just know I love them, so they come to me Probably your nervous system, your regulated nervous system.
Speaker 1:they attune to.
Speaker 2:I also recently have had little Tweety birds eating out of my hands, so like.
Speaker 2:I put some flower seeds and they'll just come Now. I didn't train these birds to do this, somebody. I used to see women standing in this area that I go all the time to feed animals in the woods and standing really stoic and still looking at the ground waiting for the birds, but they just came to me on their own. I was just out there one day feeding crows and squirrels and had my little peanut bag and all of a sudden all the little Tweety birds were like landing on my peanut bag and I was like, oh shit, I guess I better bring something for you too. And so now I carry peanuts and sunflower seeds everywhere that I go.
Speaker 1:I love it. I love it, and you're also a bookworm, so can you ask what is your favorite yoga book and your favorite business book? Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:Business book it's a tough one. I would say it's a tie between Start With why and Tribes by Seth Godin those two and then yoga book Maybe because I've been teaching so long and I have such a focus on accessibility and I just feel like so many yoga books out there are seriously lacking in that department. I'm going to be totally cheeky and I'm going to say my favorite yoga book is the one that I'm going to write.
Speaker 1:I love it. Well, when are you going to write it?
Speaker 2:I'm working on it, working on it very slowly, but because I'm at the point now where it's like you know, I have so many podcast episodes and my teacher training manual and like I have all of this stuff that I and now I'm trying to and I'm probably going to have hire a coach to just help me to get things kind of filed together, cause it's like transcript and a manual and an article, and it's just like I have to pull it all in and kind of put them in piles. That makes sense for chapters and then then we'll. Then we'll work on that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, that's exciting. And so how can people work with you? Where can they find you online? What do you have coming up?
Speaker 2:Well, I have lots of regular things all the time. So if you're a student, if you're not a yoga teacher, I have Zoom classes and those run in seasonal semesters. So if you want to know more about those, just jump on my email list and when you do, you're going to get like a yoga for a strong back video and a guided centering, just you know. And then regular stuff every few weeks from me, just little videos and stuff. And then when registration opens, of course you'll know because there'll be a big email with not subtle title that says registration is open. So that's a good way.
Speaker 2:And if they are a teacher, I have a teacher segment to my email list. So if you go onto my website, which is just nykdanucom, there's two buttons there. One says students, one says teachers. You just click on the appropriate button. That'll navigate you further when you're. If you're a teacher, then from there you're going to have a yin yoga training option or a business option, and then you can kind of navigate from there. Same thing get on the list, because we all I mean I'm on Instagram at Nick Danu yoga but and my podcast also at yanyogapodcast. But we all know the algorithm only shows you things when it feels like it. So the best way to stay in touch is just to hop on my email list on either of those if you're a student or if you're a teacher Amazing.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much for this conversation. This was great and I'm sure we'll be having more Awesome Thanks so much for having me, Alyssa.