Body Wisdom Rising

Spiritual Discernment in a Time of Awakening & Great Change

• Alyssa Stefanson

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Awakening doesn’t always feel expansive.

Often, it feels disorienting — like heightened sensitivity without a clear center.


In this episode, we explore spiritual discernment during times of awakening and transition. How to tell the difference between intuition and overwhelm, truth and projection, expansion and avoidance.


We look at why the last years have felt foggy for so many people, and what’s changing as we move into a new cycle that asks for less abstraction and more embodiment — spirituality that can actually be lived, not just understood.


You’ll hear a grounded, plain-language exploration of Neptune moving from Pisces into Aries, and what this shift asks of us: clarity, responsibility, and action that the nervous system can truly hold.


We also draw on Rudolf Steiner’s insights around balance — noticing when we drift into spiritual inflation on one side, or rigid control on the other — and how the body often knows the correction before the mind does.


This episode connects discernment to attachment patterns and boundaries, helping you sense when you’re leaving yourself, outsourcing authority, or armouring — and how to come back gently, without shame.


You’ll leave with:

• body cues for clarity

• simple questions for grounding

• practical ways to stay centered during awakening

• a steadier relationship with your own sensitivity


This is an invitation into mature spirituality — rooted, honest, and embodied.


If this supports you, consider following the show, sharing it with someone deep in their process, or leaving a review so these conversations can reach the people who need them.

Alyssa's IG: @wildfemininerise


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SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to the Body Wisdom Rising podcast. I'm your host, Alyssa, and my intention here is to deliver grounded embodied insights alongside practical tools and resources to help you heal, awaken, and remember your sacred nature. This is rooted spirituality, bringing people back to their bodies, back to their roots, and back into connection with the ancestral ways that have always carried us, not spiritual fluff, not disconnected theory, weaving together the best of ancient wisdom and modern science, living, breathing practices and conversations that integrate healing, wellness, earth-based wisdom, and conscious growth. Each week I share space with experts in trauma recovery, holistic health, and ancestral ways of knowing, as well as voices with lived experience and powerful transformational stories. Together we explore what it truly means to rise rooted, embodied, and whole. And if you enjoy this episode, please take a moment to leave a five-star review as it helps these conversations reach the people who need them most.

SPEAKER_01:

Let's get into the episode.

SPEAKER_00:

Welcome back to another episode. So today we are going to talk about a very important topic right now: spiritual discernment in a time of awakening. And I just feel that it is extremely relevant and is going to be even more so. It's going to be really important to learn how to navigate spiritual awakenings and develop spiritual discernment in the coming years. And so I want to speak to why that feels especially important right now. So we are living in a time where a lot of people are waking up spiritually, but very few of us were ever taught how to navigate spiritual awakenings in a grounded, embodied way. What I'm noticing more and more is a lot of confusion, disorientation, and people not knowing what to trust. So is it my intuition? Is this projection? Is this trauma? Not knowing who to trust, external teachers, spiritual experiences, and then just swinging between extremes, trying to feel safe again. This was my experience over the past eight years. And um, you know, it's really helpful to learn about this. Like I wish that I understood this when I was going through it. And there are a lot of, you know, frameworks and tools to help navigate this. And there are people actually guiding others uh through this as well. And I fortunately, after a few years on my journey, ended up coming across some really incredible mentors and teachers that were helpful were super supportive in helping me navigate this. So this episode isn't about attacking any spiritual path or defending another. So it is not new age versus Christianity or spirituality versus religion. It's about what happens when spiritual sensitivity grows faster than discernment, than embodiment, and when we don't have the nervous system capacity to hold this experience. And so right now we're in a moment where that gap is becoming very, very visible. And I want you to stay with me because I am going to give you something very practical today. I love practical tools and frameworks. And I'm going to give you a framework to help you recognize when you're being pulled off center. So what that can look like in real life, and what to actually do to come back into ground to clarity. So yeah, I'm going to talk about why this theme is so apparent right now, what we're moving through astrologically with Neptune shifting signs, why the pendulum swing online has gotten so intense, what people even mean when they say new age, and why the label is often misunderstood. And then I'll bring in a lens from Rudolf Steiner that, in my experience, is shockingly practical for discernment. And then I'm going to close with real tools, questions, body cues, boundary reflections that you can use immediately. So please stay to the end. And so let's start off with this pendulum swing. So for a long time, um, what many people associate with the Age of Pisces, so which we are about to leave, that's what we were currently in. Spirituality was centered around transcendence, faith, disillusion of the ego, mystical experience. And many people did open spiritually during this time. So they had real experiences, energetic, emotional, mystical. But what most people did not have is mentorship, psychospiritual education, grounding practices, or learning uh how to have discernment with these different influences and how they work on our psyche. So when things start to feel overwhelming or destabilizing, when people don't have language for it or tools for integration, what happens when humans feel unsafe is that we start to look for certainty. So that's when we start to see the pendulum swing. So it's from like the black and white, the from everything is energy. So super rigid belief systems from openness to moral absolutism, from inner authority to external authority. And it's just very, very visible online right now, right? So, um, and I'll even share that I went through moments of it, right? So where I kind of, you know, I didn't know what to trust on my spiritual journey. I was having very intense spiritual experiences. I didn't know how to navigate it until I actually found support and found mentors to support me on my journey that I trusted. And um, so I would pendulum swing and like like starting to see things as black and white. So good versus evil. And it's a lot more nuanced and complex than that, which we'll discuss today as well. And I want to be very clear that there's nothing inherently wrong or right with Christianity, with spirituality, with any sincere path. So what ends up being problematic is believing that changing belief systems will protect us from doing the inner work, from uh spiritual discernment, right? Like our beliefs in our inner state are gonna follow us no matter what. And that's gonna be really important to learn. You know, it's gonna be spiritual discernment is gonna be a really important tool for people in the coming years. You know, it doesn't, we can't just hop around to different belief systems thinking that we're gonna find safety in one of them. Because our inner state, our inner being, our inner psyche will follow us uh wherever we go. And unintegrated fear doesn't just disappear when you change spiritual language, right? Just puts on new clothes. And so if we haven't learned discernment, if we haven't learned nervous system regulation, if we haven't learned how to ground spiritual experiences into the body, then influence will follow us wherever we go. And so, why is discernment the missing skill? Because we are being influenced all of the time, whether we recognize it or not, right? These spiritual influences are always there. And we're also being influenced by teachers, the media, parents, culture, fear, um, just the collective in general, right? So influence doesn't stop just because we change spiritual identities. So discernment is the capacity to slow down, sense into the body, notice when we're being pulled off balance, and return to our own center. And it's brutal honesty as well, right? It does take humility. I have learned from just some incredible teachers and mentors the importance of humility and how humility protects power. And um humility really is something that is needed to stay balanced. And, you know, some people don't even like that word. I've heard many people not like the word humility. It doesn't mean low self-worth or confidence or like this meekness at all, actually. I find the strongest, most powerful people I've ever met were very humble. So let's get into why uh so let's talk a little bit about Neptune, Pisces, and why this is peaking right now. So just let's put a little uh context here first. So, because I know a lot of you who listen to my work understand astrology. So Neptune has been in Pisces since 2011. And Neptune and Pisces has amplified themes like spiritual awakening, spiritual sensitivity, intuition, mystical experiences, compassion, but also fog, projection, escapism, and blurred boundaries. And now Neptune begins entering Aries, and this is a really big energetic shift. So Neptune first entered Aries on March 30th, 2025. Then it retrograded back into Pisces on October 22nd, 2025, and then re-enters Aries on January 26th, staying there for a very long stretch into the late 2030s. So, what does this mean in just plain language? It means spirituality can't stay abstract. It meets identity, it meets action, it meets nervous system capacity, it meets responsibility and embodiment. So the era of floating above our humanity is ending, and that's why discernment is really a non-negotiable. So, even just speaking to new age, like where did that even come from? And, you know, now I want to talk about something I'm seeing everywhere online, people just throwing around the phase new age, like it means one single religion. But the truth is, most people don't actually know what they're talking about when they use that label. So historically, new age refers to a broad eclectic spiritual movement that rapidly grew in Western society in the 1970s. It's tied to ideas like the Age of Aquarius, uh, human potential teachings, and a mix of esoteric spirituality and self-development. Um, but it's not this centralized religion. It's not one doctrine. It's more like a cultural spiritual marketplace that blends things, sometimes beautifully, sometimes messily. But what I really want to say is that I'm seeing a lot of people start um naming practices, New Age, things like indigenous practices, earth-honoring rituals, ancestral ways, yodic Vedic lineages, meditation traditions, shamanic traditions or folk practices that have existed for thousands of years, labeling them New Age, which is um just completely lazy. And um, you know, people really need to start to research what that actually means before they start just labeling everything. Um, New Age is quite ignorant, in my opinion. And what happens online is people just make assumptions like, you know, oh, you're worshipping crystals, or they worship statues, or they're doing witchcraft, or they're opening portals, or they're being influenced by dark forces. And I just want to slow that down because most of the time these are assumptions, not discernment. And that comes from fear, right? Their own rigidity, their own black and white thinking, and their own ignorance of not actually understanding what they're talking about. So people don't worship crystals. They may use stones as a tool, the same way someone might use incense, prayer beads, anointing oil, candles, holy water, icons, rosary. Um, you know, tools exist in many different traditions. And this is where hypocrisy can creep in culturally because ritual exists everywhere. So one of the first discernment practices I want to offer is stop making assumptions about other people's spiritual beliefs. Discernment begins with humility. And let's talk about what ritual actually does. So, ritual is not inherently good or bad. Ritual, you can look at it like a technology. So it organizes our attention, it creates focus, it marks meaning, it engages emotion and memory, can regulate the nervous system through rhythm, repetition, and symbolism, can help people process grief, can create a container for intention. But um, and this is the most important ritual is not a substitute for embodiment, right? So sometimes people use ritual to avoid, you know, feeling their grief or having the hard conversations, you know, putting the boundary in place, addressing addiction patterns, addressing trauma patterns, getting support or coming back to the body. So ritual without doing the inner work just becomes spiritual bypass. And so now we're gonna get back to the main theme. So awakening without discernment, pulling people off balance. So I do want to introduce a little bit of Rudolf Steiner's work. And Rudolf Steiner was an Austrian philosopher, a mystic, and educator. And what I really respect about his work is that he didn't romanticize spiritual awakening. He emphasized the importance of clarity, grounding, and responsibility. He observed that as humans become more spiritually sensitive, we don't automatically become wiser, right? So it doesn't mean that we've done the inner psycho-spiritual work just when we start to have more spiritual experiences. That's really important to mention. And I can even speak from my own experience. And I shared this in previous episodes when I went through my spiritual awakening initially because it was so intense, because all of a sudden I was having these like exper spiritual experiences, uh, and these spiritual gifts open up and come online all at once. It was very disorienting. And I hadn't done, you know, the psycho-spiritual work yet. So I was definitely pulled off balance, and we'll talk more about what that looked like. Um, but yeah, we actually become more influenceable when these gifts start actually coming up and when we start becoming more sensitive. So this isn't putting fear into it, right? We don't want to put fear into it. We want just discernment and just being aware that this does happen. So it's really not meant to scare anyone, it's meant to maturece. And so Steiner noticed that when people open spiritually without grounding, they tend to get pulled off balance in predictable ways. So um, I'll talk about the layers that um he gave. So he talked about the three polls, uh which I'll go a little bit into because I feel like this is a pretty practical way to look at it. And so he would talk about um, so these like pulls towards either luciferic or aromonic tendencies. And so one pull would be towards inflation or escapism. So, what this can look like is feeling spiritually superior, uh, bypassing emotions and relationships. So, think about like thinking everything is love and light, only focusing on the positive, ignoring any um human reality, human emotions, right? Or uh another way that this can look is like over-identifying with like spiritual labels such as like new age, chosen one, light worker, like labels like that. And not saying like every single one of us are are chosen. Every single one of us has a unique special gift that we're here to bring to the world, like every one of us. But it's when we start using these things to feel separate or above or special than others. And many times we don't do it like in a way that we're even intentionally doing it or knowing that we're intentionally doing or even knowing that we're really doing it, period. Um, but it's something just to kind of just notice. I know that showed up for me, you know, when I was on my path. And for me, it was really that wounded inner child, right? Like it was, I went through such abrupt awakening and it was so isolating. And I went through the dark night of the soul and just it was really intense, period. And I had also experienced so much trauma in my past that um I started having these really intense spiritual experiences. And I did start identifying with like these labels. I was trying to give it meaning, right? And it was comforting at a time that I that I was feeling so lonely and disconnected. So I want to make sure that there's no judgment here because this is often a path that many of us have to experience. Also, when I'm talking about these different pulls towards these two uh different types of you know, energies and what they look like, not to approach this with any judgment and also to know that often we actually have to experience them to learn discernment. That was my experience. Like I had to go through these different phases to understand how to pull myself out of them and what they actually feel like, right? Like I wouldn't be able to teach this. I wouldn't be able to support other people if I didn't know what that was like. And a lot of times, you know, many of us who are being called into paths of um supporting others in, you know, the healing arts, we're gonna have to experience these things, right? It's the same as I had to experience addiction. I had to experience so much trauma in my past so that I could really experience it and understand what other people are going to and relate, but also so that I had to go through the healing process. So I had to know what it was like to transmute and alchemize that. So I had to know, you know, what it was like to pull myself out of such darkness so that I can actually support others on their path. Relatability is so important. Lived experience is so important. So just know, even if you've been, you know, if you you recognize yourself in what I'm sharing, no judgment at all because we do need to experience this so that we can actually support others and navigating it as well. And so, yeah, another can be, you know, just leaving everything is a sign. And um, you know, we I talk a lot about signs and synchronicities, and I still receive them. At the beginning, it was like almost it was so intense, the signs that I was getting. Um and now I I would say that they're much more subtle. I still receive them, but it's almost like I have to work for them. Like I've I've gone deeper into my own spiritual practices and devotion that when I do have these experiences, um, they feel more earned and I don't share them as much anymore. Like I keep more stuff to myself, which I've mentioned before. I keep things sacred for that reason as well. And also just like practicing, you know, humility and making sure that I don't just like attach um. When I do have these spiritual experiences, any belief that I'm like special or chosen to it, right? Like I said, every single one of us are special and chosen, in my eyes, in my view. And it can also look like just avoiding responsibility in the name of spirituality, like giving everything spiritual uh language, like going through really difficult things in life and like rather allowing ourselves to actually move through and process it, just trying to make spiritual meaning out of it right away. Meaning is an important step. It absolutely is, but we do still need to go through the process of moving through it. And you know, when I went through my awakening um years ago, I had experienced like such severe trauma that I was not in a place where I was even able to process it. So, how intelligent was it of my body to dissociate and disconnect? And I started having these really intense spiritual experiences because it helped me get through that time. It was too much. Like it was overwhelming for me. I wouldn't have been able to process it at that time. So as I started, you know, using the somatic tools and doing the deeper somatic work and coming back into my body and finding safety within my body again, then I was able to get to a place of being able to process uh my past experiences, like move through the emotions. And it took a few years to get there. And you, you know, um thing that I know that I've um witnessed is, and just from like conversations with, you know, friends and people I know is, you know, them sharing that they haven't really actually, you know, they didn't really experience um these intense emotions and they were able to just, you know, find a find the positivity in it right away. And um that's beautiful. Like absolutely, we want to be able to hold that, but do know that it is quite common for things to come up later on, right? Like I even was moving through grief just recently, the grief of uh losing my best friend 20 years ago, which I knew that I hadn't really processed it. I thought maybe like it just didn't impact me as much, you know, but it was too much for me to go through at such a young age and we're at that stage where I was at in life. And that actually started to come up, you know, decades later that I was able to move through. I didn't stay in it. And that's the thing when we talk about, you know, moving through emotions is like it doesn't mean that you're wallowing and staying in these emotions. We can move through it, you know, a lot quicker and with the support. And um, you know, when we have the resources available to us, it doesn't mean that we're staying and wallowing in these emotions, but we let them move through us. Like we create space and um we honor our grief or our anger. So yeah, that's just what it can look like um when we're a little bit disconnected and kind of pulled away from reality, right? So um saying none of this really matters, it's all an illusion. You know, we're um channeling aliens, the aliens are gonna come save us, or something like that. Like just really getting pulled away from the earthly realm, like not actually being present here. Um, so that's what that could look like. So again, this isn't about shame or judgment whatsoever, or just like being only high vibe only, right? Which I've talked about. Um, but yeah, just being very disconnected from your body and from reality. And again, I was there. So and the other one, um, you know, what this can look like is um, so the aramonic path would be more so the opposite. So that would be more very much materialism focused, you know, survival of the fittest, uh overly focused on self, disconnected from any um spirituality whatsoever. So like atheism, very rational, um, like overly, like only um focused on like science and not like giving any respect or acknowledgement to um spirituality whatsoever, really focused on personal gain. Uh yeah, over focused on the physical world. It can also show up as an obsession with physical health as well. Uh, we see that a lot in this space as well, like this fear of death, right? And um again, none of these are bad. It's just being able to recognize where we might be at. It also looks like a lot of like cold and like rigidity and kind of just like black and white um yeah, thinking. And the middle path is a path of discernment. So it is more embodied, it's humbled, has compassion. Um, it's able to see complexity and nuance, which is a major sign, you know, when we become more integrated and whole as human beings, we're able to hold complexity and nuance. We don't get so pulled off center, we don't get so triggered when someone has a different belief than us. We're able to actually see different perspectives. We're able to hold multiple perspectives at once, right? So that's actually ends up what what we experience when we actually do the psycho-spiritual work, the deep inner work, is that we can hold that and not get so pulled off center. And um it's having really one foot in um the real world, like being well-rooted, connected to earth, connected to reality, connected to everyday life, and also deeply connected to uh spirituality, whatever that looks like for you, right? Whether it's spirituality or like religion, um, whatever path you choose, but being able to be connected to both. And um yeah, it's a path of oneness, of wholeness. And that would be what uh those three different paths look like. So, you know, just helpful to just kind of reflect and kind of notice where you might be. We all get different, we all get pulled in different directions at different times. And not to say that I won't even get pulled off balance again, because I do, right? I do experience that I've I've experienced both extremes. And so this has just been a really helpful framework for me to navigate that. And so in the work of Rudolf Steiner, discernment is strengthened by learning to recognize imbalances of consciousness. So not to judge them, but to notice how they pull us away from grounded presence. So again, he described these two opposing tendencies that can distort perception and boundaries when they're not integrated. And um, so this matters because of a lot of people are externalizing everything right now, but these are inner forces, not external entities. It's really important to mention. So many people think it's out there, and yes, influence exists, but discernment starts with noticing what's happening in here, inside you. And so luciferic influence tends to pull awareness upward and outward, showing up as wanting transcendence without embodiment, spiritual excitement or inflation, losing contact with limits or the physical body, feeling above difficulty, challenges, rather than really inside uh reality. And so just some reflection prompts you can ask yourself is where do I notice myself starting to reach upwards instead of staying present, wanting to escape, right? Instead of staying in the present moment. Where might I be seeking clarity through escaping rather than grounding? And just what happens when I slow down and come back into my body? So that's really important. If we do notice ourselves pulling up and outwards, it's a practice of coming back into our bodies. Somatic practices were so helpful for me when it came to doing this work. And so, you know, just examples of real life is using spirituality to avoid discomfort, chasing peak experiences, being addicted to downloads, but your life isn't changing, right? So, like chasing insights and downloads, but you're not actually integrating that into everyday life, like you're not actually making any changes. And just feeling basically allergic to anything mundane, um, ordinary life. Um, but really the mundane is where the integration happens, right? Like I always say that life is the ceremony. And I love to treat life like not in um an escapism way, but as a devotional practice. Like every single day is an opportunity for us to really integrate these insights that come in. And I find less is more. You know, what a couple years ago, I had one of the most transformative years of my entire life. And it was after a ceremony that I went to. And during ceremony, what really came up for me was the word humility. And that in order to be of greatest service, I had to be humbled. And that stuck with me, just that one word. And so I, the entire year after that, I just really focused on how I can practice humility in everyday life, like practice being more humble. And it's a practice, right? So it was really something that I practiced. And like I let so many things go. Like it was such a stripping year for me. It was such a year of letting things go. Like I even stopped um coloring my hair. I haven't colored my hair in nearly two years. Not to say that I won't again, but that was just something that I did at that time because I just went through the just this letting go of the need of like external validation of my appearances was one thing that I wanted to let go of. So just even the simple word, applying it to so many different areas of my life, like honestly was so, so transformative. And so simplicity is powerful, right? Like taking something small, we don't have to do a whole bunch of things at once. But that's how we actually integrate these spiritual insights that come into our lives, into you know, everyday life, into the mundane, into the ordinary, but that actually create ripple effects and completely transform every area of our life. Because I can't even tell you the doors that have opened for me since then. And I know it was from um practicing that and integrating that into my life. And then, you know, the um the other end of it, like the more of that kind of aromatic, would you know, cause us to be very disconnected from any of the spiritual um as well. And these influences pull us more towards rigidity and control. So it can show up as over-intellectualizing our experiences, tightening bracing or overstructuring, very fear-based thinking or mistrust of intuition, reducing living experience into systems of certainty. And so just some reflection prompts that you can ask yourself is where do I feel contracted, fixed or mentally rigid? Where might control be replacing trust or presence? What softens when I allow some uncertainty? Building my capacity to be with uncertainty has been who such a transformative spiritual practice and so challenging, you know. Um, life, life is challenging. And, you know, it's it's it's human nature to want some sort of like certainty and some sort of hope. But I had to learn to just be with the discomfort of uncertainty and know that when I am actually in the discomfort of uncertainty, then I'm actually open to possibilities rather than trying to like create scenarios that haven't even happened in my head, like worst-case scenarios or like um fantasizing, right? Like not allowing myself to do either of those, like just knowing that most of my thoughts aren't true and just coming back to the here and now and just building my capacity to be with this moment, uncertain of what's to come. And really, truly, that's opened me up to a whole world of possibilities. Cause then we're open to everything, right? Like we never know how things are going to turn out. And it can be uncomfortable at times, but um, yeah, it's that's a real spiritual practice for sure. And Steiner really emphasized that maturity comes from learning to stand between these forces. So not rejecting either, but integrating both through conscious presence. So neither transcendence nor control leads to clarity on its own. Discernment arises when we can remain fully embodied, awake, and responsible. So here are some reflections for the middle way. So, what does balance feel like in my body right now? Where do I feel neither pulled upward nor hardened, but simply here? And what choice supports integrity rather than urgency or fear? And just looking at it from a somatic and attachment lens, because I think this is really helpful when we talk about discernment and boundaries. And I think this part is actually absolutely essential because discernment isn't just spiritual, it's also very relational and nervous system-based. And just through the lens of attachment theory, it really helps us understand how our early relationships, especially with our caregivers, but not just our caregivers, it's also to do with, you know, our culture and just systems in general, not just our parents. But it all shapes our nervous system, right? Our sense of safety, our boundaries and how we relate to others later on in life. And when early attachment is secure, boundaries tend to feel clearer and safer. When it's disrupted, people may lean towards either collapse, hypervigilance, over-responsibility, rigid protection strategies, including spiritual lens. So in this work, we use attachment therapy or theory as a lens, not as a label to understand how early relational patterns live in the body and inform discernment today. So here are just some practical reflection prompts when it comes to attachment. So looking at emotional boundaries. As a child, did I feel responsible for my parents' emotions? Did I feel safe having feelings that were inconvenient or messy? And then physical, so our spatial boundaries. Did my body feel respected? Privacy, touch, personal space? Did I learn to override body signals to keep this peace? And then also our psychological and our identity boundaries. Was I allowed to have my own opinions, pace, or direction? Did love feel conditional on being a certain way? And then there's responsibility and role boundaries. Did I grow up too fast or feel like the strong one? And here's why this matters: if you grew up in an environment where your boundaries were crossed or unclear, you might overtrust authority figures, collapse and people please, swing into rigid protection, mistrust your body, or outsource discernment to someone else. So part of spiritual discernment is actually healing the parts of you that were trained to abandon yourself. And we do that through somatic practices, right? Because these are nervous system patterns and very much subconscious. The body is a representation of the subconscious mind. And that's why somatic work can be so powerful. So, and if that is something that you feel called to go deeper into, uh, I do work one-on-one with people um offering somatic integration and different somatic embodiment practices to really get a sense of those um those boundaries again and connect to your own inner authority and your own personal sovereignty. And here's just some closing integration prompts. So, what helps me stay in relationship with myself, my body, my mind, my spirit without leaving any part behind? What is one quality that you want to carry forward? So, whether that's steadiness, honesty, patience, clarity, whatever that is for you. And if you're listening to this and recognizing yourself, feeling uh spiritually sensitive, but also kind of overwhelmed and confused or disoriented, you know, nothing has gone wrong. It's really part of this path of navigating this path. And it can be really challenging, you know, without any um guides or support. And you might simply be at the stage where discernment becomes, you know, the real initiation. That's for sure it was for me. And yeah, in the next episode, I'm gonna go a little bit deeper into the spiritual awakening process and the dark night of the soul. So stay tuned for that one. And yeah, just thank you everyone for being here. You know, I so appreciate you all just coming back and listening to each episode. I yeah, I love you all so much. And we'll see you in the next episode.