Trauma, Psychedelics & the Path to Real Transformation With Dr. Jesse Hanson

Big realizations are easy to chase. Lasting transformation is harder, quieter, and way more embodied. Alyssa sits down with Dr. Jesse Hanson, PhD psychologist and somatic healer, to unpack why so many people have powerful insights, breathwork highs, or psychedelic experiences, then land back in the same loops a few weeks later. We trace the difference to bihemispheric healing: weaving clear left-brain understanding with right-brain somatic experience so your nervous system, posture, breath, and relationships actually change.

We dig into what “safe space” really means, and why energetic safety is not enough without relational safety. Jesse shares how preparation, trauma education, and clinical frameworks like EMDR-informed approaches, parts work, attachment patterns, and nervous system regulation can prevent people from feeling broken when old material rises. Alyssa adds the lived reality of trauma residue surfacing in a well-held container, and how co-regulation and asking for help can become the moment where the body finally learns something new.

You also hear a grounded map for trauma reprocessing and integration, including why corrective experiences matter, why the work is the work whether or not plant sacraments are involved, and how language like “you are the medicine” can bring your power back home. Jesse closes by sharing new offerings, including the Wisdom Collective for men and a practitioner-focused training around trauma reprocessing mastery, plus details on our co-hosted Costa Rica retreat (January 17 to 23). If this conversation sparks something in you, subscribe, share it with a friend, and leave a review. What would change if you trusted your body to lead?

Connect with Dr. Jesse Hanson

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jessehansonphd/
• Hanson Healing: https://www.hansonhealing.com/
• MentalHealth.com: https://www.mentalhealth.com/
• The Wisdom Collective: https://thewisdomcollective.vibepreview.com
• Awaken Experience Costa Rica: https://www.awakenexperiencecostarica.com

Alyssa's IG: @wildfemininerise

Work With Alyssa:

The Calling —A 9 Month Initiation Into Your Soul's Assignment

In Service— 1:1 Soul-Led Leadership Mentorship

The Awaken Experience— 7 Day Retreat In Costa Rica with Alyssa & Dr. Jesse

Free Meditation —Positive Timeline Activation

Watch Alyssa's episode on Lead With Heart

Transcript

Welcome And What We Explore

SPEAKER_00 0:16

Welcome to Body Wisdom Rising. I'm your host, Alyssa. We're living at a profound turning point in humanity, a collective choice point where old systems are dissolving, and many of us are being called to wake up, heal, and step into deeper alignment with who we truly are. On this podcast, we explore consciousness, healing, ancestral wisdom, and the initiations that shape our lives. We also explore how to navigate times of great change and what it means when healing begins to open the door to deeper questions. Who am I really? Why am I here? And how am I being called to serve in this moment of history? Here we talk about the collective themes unfolding in our world and how each of us can learn to meet them with greater awareness, embodiment, and courage. Because real transformation doesn't just happen in the mind, it happens through the body. If you're on a path of awakening, healing, remembering, and perhaps stepping into service, you're in the right place. This is Body Wisdom Rising.

Meet Dr. Jesse Hansen

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Welcome back to another episode of Body Wisdom Rising. Today I'm so excited to welcome back my friend, mentor, and colleague, Dr. Jesse Hansen. If you haven't listened to our first conversation together, I highly recommend going back and starting there. It really lays the foundation for today's conversation. For those of you who are new to Jesse, he's a PhD psychologist specializing in clinical and somatic psychology, a somatic healer, founder of Hansen Healing, and co-founder of mentalhealth.com. He also served for four seasons as an interventionist on AE's intervention. For more than 20 years, Jesse has been bridging modern neuroscience with somatic healing, ancient wisdom, and transformational practices. But beyond all his credentials, Jesse is someone who truly walks his talk, is incredibly humble, deeply embodied, and has done so much of his own healing work. I genuinely believe the most impactful practitioners are the ones who continue doing their own inner work. And Jesse is one of those people. In this episode, we dive into trauma reprocessing, psychedelic assisted therapy, ceremonial work, and what actually creates lasting transformation. We explore why healing isn't just about profound insights or peak experiences. It's about the kinds of experiences that fundamentally change the way you relate to yourself, others, and the world around you. The kind of healing that shifts how you show up in your relationships, your work, and your purpose. And as your inner world begins to change, your external reality naturally begins to mirror that change with it. At the end of the episode, Jesse also shares two exciting new offerings, one designed specifically for men and another for practitioners and clinicians who want to deepen their ability to facilitate transformational healing. I'm also excited to share that Jesse and I will be co-hosting a retreat together in Costa Rica in January. And after experiencing his work firsthand, I couldn't be more excited for what's to come. I hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I did. Let's dive in.

Why Breakthroughs Do Not Last

SPEAKER_01 3:58

So, Jesse, what is it that actually catalyzes lasting transformation? Because so many people are doing the work, yet it seems so many people are just stuck in endless cycles of healing. Maybe they have profound breakthroughs or insights, but nothing in their external reality actually changes, while others experience the kind of change that fundamentally alters the trajectory of their life. What have you observed?

SPEAKER_02 4:27

The simplest, shortest way I can say it, Alyssa, is bihemispheric brain activity is the difference between long-lasting change and temporary epiphany, temporary miracle, whatever you would like to call it. What does that really mean, bihemispheric? Obviously, both sides of our brain. What does that really mean? Being able to live in a brain-heart coherent state more often, being able to realize just how deeply our mind and body are so interconnected, so highly correlated. This idea of psychostructural integration, we're to realize every psychological shift needs a structural shift to really fortify it. And what is structure as a human, structure is our bones because they are the structure that hold us out. And so so many times people have amazing epiphanies, but their cervical vertebrae are contracted and their forehead is up, and it's amazing, but it's up and out, and they're not always understanding that it's learning how to create embodiment around whatever we experience in our mind or in spiritual journeys is what actually helps it become long-lasting. And there's a whole art form to how that happens that we can get into, but for now, biomospheric brain activity, learning how to honor the brain-body connection. And the work is the work, whether, you know, we didn't even bring this up yet, but it's on everywhere in the world, the psychedelic renaissance, people having incredible awakenings, experiences on working with plant sacraments, and yet so often it's not integrated with the understanding of what's happening in their actual neurology, in their body structure, in their psyche. So this is often why you see that whether it's with plant sacraments or not, people go away for deep dives, retreats, and they're like, oh my God, it's amazing. And then two to four weeks later, two months later, often is the case, right? As you were saying in your intro.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

Yeah. Yeah. Let's dive a little bit deeper into that. Like, how can someone like how can we actually support that process as healers, as practitioners, as clinicians? Like, how do you actually support someone to actually experience transformation, lasting change in their life? And what is embodiment as well?

SPEAKER_02 6:42

Yeah. How do we create it, Alyssa? That's these are great questions. Thank you. How how do we create it? Is we create sacred spaces and settings and experiences for us healers to go through the work ourselves, to learn it truly from the inside. I think that's the deepest answer. It's not something we can fully get just by an online course or even a book or even a great class at a great university. There's something about having to go through the experiences ourselves because we can only take our clients as deep down in the paths as we've traveled ourselves. So that's the number one thing is that we have to actually be humble and brave and courageous as in the healer role, which healer isn't just woo-woo in this case, even medical doctors and psychologists and highly academically trained healers. Um, I would hold the same criteria or ethics there to say that that's really how we know how to do it. But ultimately, it's it's by having to really realize that we all have trauma. And though I'm clinically trained and I don't mind using clinical PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder language, I personally am enjoying the language trauma residue lately. I find like it's a more embodied way to talk about it, and and we all have some kind of residue, some leftover from things that have happened to us, whether it's physical, sexual, or emotional. And it's by having the courage and knowing some of the clinical and ancient indigenous protocols that help people move through the shadows or move into the muck and and bring out the gold or grow the lotuses, is is really what it takes. And these days, thankfully, we're living in a pretty cool time with neuroscience. There's so many uh modalities out there now, from EMDR to sensory motor to body mapping, body mind, I I can't even keep up with them all anymore. Polybagel theory, I love them all. But it's to say that there's no shortage of learning protocols and techniques and pathways there, and yet there's no substitute for actually going beyond the intellectual learning of these techniques into the lived experiences, which I know you and I both know about from our path, and I humbly admit that in 25 years into the field now that though I'm grateful I got my doctorate and I'm grateful I studied neuropsych, I'm way more grateful that I was introduced to all these different practices, the indigenous practices, somatic practices, ceremonial experiences, they have by and far helped me upgrade or up level as a healer way more. And yet if I didn't have all of the academia, if I didn't have all of the other left brain stuff, I also know I wouldn't be as as focused or conscious of what I'm doing, right? Because they they both have the beauty.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

Yeah, yeah. Um even just speaking to just like the left brain stuff, like it is really important to understand what's happening and make sense of our experiences. Like for me, that's been so helpful on my journey. But it wasn't until I actually got deep into the ceremonial work and the deep trauma processing in safe containers, which we'll dive a little bit deeper into, that I actually started to experience transformation in my external reality. But to be honest, if I had just gone to those spaces without having an understanding, I wouldn't have been able to go as deep because I would have thought that something was wrong with me when I actually started to have, you know, past traumatic experiences starting to emerge and come up. So fortunately, like actually learning and studying a lot of the somatic work, the parts work, attachment theory that really helped me understand my internal experience and know that I'm not broken. Like that there's nothing wrong with me. And, you know, having a profound emotional uh release or just feeling these parts starting to surface in those spaces was actually a really good thing.

Safety Before Ceremony And Healing

SPEAKER_01 10:45

It wasn't a bad thing, right? It really helped me allow really helped allow me to drop those walls. And then even speaking to the safe spaces that you talked about, I don't think people even understand because we you hear that so often in this space, like safe spaces, safe spaces, like what does that even mean? I don't think people really understand how important that is until you actually experience a safe container, a safe retreat, and a container that does not feel safe. Like you are not able to fully drop in in a container where there isn't safety. And I've experienced both. And the safest container I can honestly say, and I'm not just saying that because I'm speaking with you, but it has been through your experiences. Like that was what actually allowed me to go super, super deep in my experiences before we actually did the main ceremony day with the plant sacraments. It was the days prior of like, you know, just starting to open that stuff up in the group containers and small group containers and uh building that, you know, that safety and practicing that vulnerability prior really allowed me to fully drop in where I've been in other containers where there wasn't any of that. It was basically like you show up and then it's like all of a sudden you're taking plant sacraments that day and you don't even know anyone and you just can't fully drop in. Like it's it's a very, very different experience. Do you want to expand on any of that at all?

SPEAKER_02 12:11

Yeah, I know. Thanks. Yeah, thanks so much for all that, Alyssa, and the personal part. And I want to meet you in those realms of vulnerability and sort of go from a broader stroke into a finer tip. Is that, you know, that you're right, the academia, the left brain, the understanding. It's I like the metaphor of bumper bowling. It's like putting the bumpers in the bowling alley so that you don't have to get a gutter ball. If you don't really want to, and that's so often people say about a bad trip, it's not really a bad trip. It's simply that stuff's coming up and they they weren't prepared. No one prepared them properly. They weren't necessarily ready to see all of that, right? And so it's actually a blessing, but it's scary to the ego. So when we have the clinical training and the left-band understanding and the proper preparation, when all these quote unquote weird things start to happen, we can actually make sense of them because we're like realizing, oh my goodness, that's right. I did never talk about that, or I have held in that spring for a long time, or whatever, whatever our deeper truth that's coming up. So yeah, I like that wisdom that you're bringing in for all of us, is simply to say that they, the the left brain and the academia and the clinical and the protocols, they have their place because they are a big part of what helped create safety. Because understanding actually helps create safety. And that's often overlooked, or it's only presented from more of a spiritual lens, which I love that lens. I absolutely embrace that lens. It's just that if we don't have the left brain or logical scientific understanding, yeah, oftentimes we can freak ourselves out where when what's actually happening is exactly what needs to happen. Uh, here's a classic example in our culture: panic attack. It always bothered me. And then I learned deeper and I'm like, it's such a caveat, North American, typical, main, you know, programmed way of saying about it. It's this thing attacking me. It's not any accountability or acknowledgement of like, oh my gosh, I have unprocessed trauma. I am suppressing certain feelings and parts, and they're coming up because of an overwhelming, pressurized situation. Yes, that's harder truth to swallow, and it's less, you don't get to play the victim in it, but it's to realize, wow, if I created that, I can uncreate that. And that's really what all of this work's about. It's it's not about the plants or the not the plants, it's the work is the work. And if the plants come in, they help amplify and expedite the processes. However, we have to go through the processes. So to meet you in your vulnerability, my my first time after about 10 or 12 years as both a student, client, and then by that point licensed professional as a mental health professional at that point in my life. I had that much exposure to trauma reprocessing work and specifically relational somatic psychology, which is we can go into that in a minute of what is that, because that's really the what I've learned is what separates a uh energetically safe versus relationally safe container, right? And so, in a quick nutshell, it'll be vulnerable with you. Is that I remember too, like you said, something was like, wow, if I hadn't have had that understanding ahead of time, I would have thought what was happening was bad or or weird, as opposed to realizing, oh, I'm just finally releasing all of this held trauma. Was that I, yeah, my first time was with Gabor Mate down in in Mexico in a deep plant sacrament journey. And as soon as it started, as soon as I started to drop into that space, I was just realizing, wow, oh, this is just like school. This is just like trauma reprocessing work that I've been doing for over a decade now. And I just started implementing all the same protocol techniques, approaches, being the therapist and the client at the same time. And I had an incredible time. And I, and I was, and I didn't, and I'm interesting, is that I'm sure people may push back on me in this, but I and I'm not saying it's definitive, proven hypothesis. It's only hypotheses, but is that I didn't puke or crap myself. And I was in a large group of tons of other people that were also all doctors and healers, and they were all expelling that way, and I have no judgment on it, but and I was ready, I was expecting that. But I noticed every time I felt nauseous and I chose to do the sequence work as opposed to just breathe or go spiritually, like really embody what was happening, I would the nausea would go away and I would have an incredible process and I would have some kind of upgrade in my consciousness, and I would feel great. And then I'd ride that for a while, and then the next challenge away would come. But if for three nights in a row, I know I never once purged in the way that everyone says this is what you do on ayahuasca. So my hypothesis is that if actually if people were more trained in trauma reprocessing work and understood it before they go to a ceremony of anything, any kind of plant, that's going to be holder to different outcomes. And that's what I've seen. I think that's what you saw coming through one of the experiences.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

Yeah. And, you know, I I had an opposite like approach to this work than most people I know, because most people I actually know have gone to plant medicines before they went to somatics. I did years of somatics before I went to plant medicines, which so helped me navigate that. Um, and I was the same, same experience as you in every ayahuasca ceremony. I have, I have not yet purged. I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with that or that you shouldn't. It hasn't been my experience either. But the somatics was really what helped me. And when I there were moments where like I I would have you forget all of that goes out the window. But when I was able to actually fully bring myself back to that, that was really what helped me get through it. But also the relational piece. So this is what I want to touch on because it really um kind of goes into what you were bringing up because the moments that I forgot the somatic work, like that all went out the window, I started feeling very scared. Right. And I have a very hard time asking for help. Very hard time. It was so hard for me to say those three words in the last ceremony that I sat on, sat in. I need help. So difficult. And it felt super humbling. But it was what I needed to do. And I knew that I needed to ask for help because that is my um, I would say that is my more so insecure attachment style, is more the avoidant. It's something that I've been working on healing over the past several years. And so this, the facilitators came in to support me. And that was so, so healing for me to be able to actually uh receive that co-regulation, that support to help me find my breath again to come back into my body. So, yeah, let's go a little bit into that, into the relational piece.

Relational Somatics And Co-Regulation

SPEAKER_02 18:34

Yeah, absolutely. Interpersonal psychoneurobiology, the study of how interpersonal relationships impact our psychology, our neurology, and our biology. So that means everything, our breath, our posture, our the way we process biochemicals, the way we process information, emotions, it's all through the interpersonal relational field, which is ancient wisdom, a whole Matakiyasan. That was the saying across many native paths that meant, I see you, I feel you, I know you, we are, everything is interconnected for all my relations, is how they would say it. And that's the part where our modern world, we forget that all the time, and we want everything to be separate and logical and fixed. And so, you know, with with that awareness of really bringing back this sense of we are stronger as a tribe. And and when when you uh when one of us work, we all work. When anyone chooses to be vulnerable and share, if as long as we are present breathing, it opens us, it touches us, right? As humans, that's part of the way Creator programmed us. And so often, like you mentioned, the common protocol now is that you know there are uh plant sacrament-based retreat experiences, and then there are yoga and personal development or other kind of holistic approaches, there's very few that really cross in between. And so, with the traditional, like you mentioned, within 24 hours you're already being served something. Um, while yes, technically that is energetically safe, that doesn't mean that anyone is doing anything bad or wrong and they've saged the room and the candles are lit. And yet, just from an as humans, as emotional beings, we we need more, we often do. Maybe there are some of us that don't, but most of us out here need some kind of relational connection point and safety building before getting opened up that much, right? And so that's where my clinical training and understanding of relational somatic psychology, where for years before I ever was introduced to any plants, I sat in these circles where we would hold space for each other's emotional processes to happen in a somatic way. And it's very much what you know, what you got to experience as well in our work as we're carrying it forward, but is a way for people to really get an embodied look at what's going on inside of their own psyche and the place from where they're creating the world from. And the difference is once that is opened up and there's an understanding and a way to connect into all that awareness and the way it is held in our body, then when we go into a ceremony, whether it is with plants or whether it's a challenge of a day of fasting or whatever way we might choose, then we have a better map of what's going on and we can actually create a lot stronger focused outcomes and therapeutic outcomes. And as you, you know, as you've seen, and I've I'm witnessing you now, a couple of years later, like how much your life has shifted and how much you have taken embodied deeply that the teachings that came through, you know, it's it's very powerful.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

Thank

Trauma Reprocessing And Corrective Experiences

SPEAKER_01 21:34

you. I I would love to kind of demystify trauma processing and also touch on corrective experiences. Um because I think for a lot of people, just the idea of trauma processing, just even like hearing that, it sounds really intimidating. And so when someone comes to work with you, like what is trauma processing actually look like? Are they actually reliving like their you know, all their worst like memories? Like, is all of that coming up? What does that actually look like? And then yeah, touch in on like the corrective experiences, why that is so important.

SPEAKER_02 22:05

So important. Yeah. Great questions. So, first of all, just clarity, I I would technically call it trauma reprocessing. Um, and I guess, yeah, you could say trauma processing, but I guess the reprocessing is the guys we're consciously going in to rewrite what's happened here. All right. So it's an agreement of, and so first step is stabilization and making sure the person is actually ready for that. And that I always meet people where they're at, and I don't ever know till they step onto the path, but there's ways to sort of quickly gauge their readiness for being able to go deeper into certain, you know, known or unknown traumas. And then yeah, this is where I feel blessed from my my balanced of studies over the last 25 years, that I'm not limited to one particular approach, EMDR, sensory motor, parts work, pure somatic work. Sometimes it's just about helping them create safety in in their body, in the room, maybe with a man. Um, so it's really is like that, that, and ironically, people think, well man, I I need to get to that memory and that is like, no, as long as we're working towards the goal of you starting to feel learn how to feel safer within yourself, life's gonna change. Life's gonna get sweeter. And that's so often what's at the root of all of our dysfunctions, is we've lost the ability to feel safe, right? And so trauma reprocessing, Alyssa, is is surprisingly, there is actually a method to the madness, there's actually an algorithm to move through in a in a safe and sometimes it's slow, sometimes it's fast. It's really not about the how quickly we do it, it's about how gracefully we do it. And the idea is to help people learn how to desensitize to the painful memories of their past. And then the corrective experience part that you name is crucial. That's sort of the most important interweave once the desensitization has happened and their system is ready for okay, this is what was missing. Was like even right now, just still I work with a lot of grown men, and it's amazing how many men, you know, myself included, struggle to receive, to just like admit when something's not okay, and it's like, well, partly yes, that's all the much cheese going off. And though underneath it, there's some level where that's what was programmed into us from a very young age. And so you start to question is that program actually who I really want to be? And does it actually serve my greatest brain, body, spiritual, relational health? Or am I going to be a better man in this example if I were to learn how to receive and create more balance? And maybe I'd even give more with even more goosed, right? So as I hear my saying that, I'm I'm definitely talking to myself and probably other men out there, that it's, you know, that's an example of where we reprocess something. It's not always this awful childhood thing that's scary to look at. And yet, last quick thing I'll say on this, and I'll pass it back to you, is that I for sure have witnessed in my own journeys and others, is that when people step up to the plate and sign up for a plant sacrament ceremony, the more of that kind of stuff that we have ignored or suppressed or not looked at is gonna come up harder and heavier. Whereas when we have the courage to look at it, do some trauma reprocessing work ahead of time, we can move a lot more into the corrective experience as well as into the next levels of growth. Right. So, in other words, there's no way to avoid it. And I've even worked with people in palliative care and in um, you know, near the near the end of their life. The same thing happens then as you start getting older, that going see now, all these things, it's so related to have I really processed my emotions well throughout my lifetime or not, you know.

unknown 25:35

Yeah.

A Real Somatic Release In Group

SPEAKER_01 25:37

I think I'm gonna be vulnerable here and I'll I'll share just for the listeners so they can actually kind of get a feel of like what this experience might, you know, look like, be like, feel like. And uh, I'll share my experience from the second retreat that I uh attended of yours, which would have been that was last spring, so over a year ago. And then you can kind of share from a clinical perspective if you're open to it, of like what was actually happening going on. So, and this is to just like my perspective of what was coming up, though I don't know. And and I I know that we also don't need to know what memories are servicing because sometimes we don't, right? But uh so for me, so what we were doing is we didn't we didn't even ingest any plant medicines at this point. So this is really important to mention. Like you always say we are the medicine, and that is so true. I've never had an experience like that with uh any facilitator before. And also, too, it's you, it was your team, it was the container, it was the environment, just everything. Just really, I was set up for it. But we were doing some small group work. First, you had us going back into our childhood. So I was on the ground and I was supposed to be reaching up to my caregivers. So reaching up for support and automatically, because I was really attuning to my body. So I wasn't focusing so much on like what I'm supposed to be doing. I was noticing what I was feeling as I was reaching up, and automatically my body wanted to turn away and shut down. So I turned away and shut down and I curled up because that was just what I felt I needed to do. And you actually walked by me and you nudged me with your knee to get back up and reach. And so I did that, and all of a sudden I started feeling these emotions starting to surface. And then you asked us to stand up. And then I don't know if you said, or now we're in like an adult relationship or a romantic partnership, whatever it was, it triggered something in me and you noticed that, and you looked right at me and you said, let it come up. And then I'm like, okay. And then all of a sudden I felt this part coming up. And so luckily, this is where the understanding is super helpful. I was like, okay, there is a part that's coming up that wants to take over my body right now, and I'm going to let it. So I let that part come up. I drop to the ground. Uh, you all surrounded me. So you brought your whole team over. You put your hand off me. You were asking me questions, like, what is it? What do you want to say? You again, you can get you can give clarity.

SPEAKER_02 28:10

You're doing great. You're doing great. Let us go.

SPEAKER_01 28:13

Um, I know that you were just asking me, what does it want to say? And um I just said scared. And then I'm scared. And so then I just started screaming and shaking, and it probably looked very scary for outsiders. And I know it was because it kind of shook up a lot of people in the group. Luckily, I knew I'm like, I need to go through this process. Like, this is finally happening. I'm finally able to access this part that was exiled and pushed down for so long. So I just went through that whole process and I screamed and I was shaking. And then um, I sat back up and I knew it was really important to look around the room and make eye contact and show that part that I'm now safe. So I just like put a hand on my heart. I like found my breath. I started looking around at everyone so I could have that corrective experience, right? Because I never got to fully process that. I'm assuming it was from a very traumatic, violent relationship I was in. That's what I'm assuming it was connected to, though I don't know, I don't need to know. But yeah, that part came up. Uh, I let it take over and the whole group surrounded me. I felt super supported. And then I was able to, yeah, find safety after. So let's unpack that experience a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 29:21

Uh oh, thank you so much for that wonderful vulnerability and helping me really reconnect to that experience that that was something very special. And again, the magic of, yeah, we were still over 36 hours away from even getting near any any plant sacraments. So it's a proof that we are the medicine. It's the proof that the work is the work. Whether we put the plants in this or not is a great, it's a great choice of decision. And yet what matters is exactly what you just said: having enough study and understanding, left brain awareness with enough right brain practices, breath work, all the other things you've been doing for the last many years to get yourself primed for this. That's what I mean by bihemisphere. It's like I have my left brain on and I know exactly what's going on, and I know that everyone else is gonna judge this as weird, but I don't give an F bomb. So I'm gonna let go because I know that's what's best for my healing and actually best for everyone around me. And that's the right brain mastery, right? And to weave that. So that's the quick download on what was happening was you were you were stepping up, you were, you know, allowing bihemispheric processing. And especially since, yeah, like you said, it was the there was the mixture of the the support of the group and yet also the the rattling for some people that weren't used to this or didn't understand yet. And yet even that was held with love and safety, and that was held with every uh all parts are welcome, you know, and that's what my great teachers taught me from the Esselin Origins and Ron Hakomi Hurts uh the the Hakomi work from Ron Kurtz is that you know it's all parts are welcome, and we just have to continue to learn how to make space for what's authentic in the moment. And as you notice, even in your big process there, it was probably about 90 to 140 seconds of of experience time, you know, shorter than a the than a commercial break on our TV shows that we do all the time. And like in that amount of time, you were able to rewrite so much of your story and so much in your body. And so that was just yeah, it was absolutely amazing. And then again, because you are advanced practice of this, you already knew the neuroscience and the psycho development part, which was that, yeah, after moving through something like that, that the fear of judgment, the fear of shame, being shamed, having had been shamed around having emotions passed, you know, to come up and make eye contact. So, so beautiful, so wise. And if if you hadn't a conscious facilitator who would invite you to that to be like, hey, now like let's just check in. Can we try with this person? Can we try with that person? Because the old software is thinking, oh my God, I screwed up, I'm so bad, I'm in trouble. They're all gonna think I'm a freak. And when you see people look at you with love and acceptance, then it's like boom, there's the corrective experience, not only the releasing of that trapped energy. And it definitely, yeah, and it's what's powerful is when you work, I work, we work. And so you, you know, you helped open the relational field for that whole group of people, because that was only on the maybe second day or something, and it helped open everyone's journeys deeper. And so, yeah, it's it's yeah, it's such a beautiful example of you know the work as well as just the difference between just going down, not only within 24 to 36 hours, being given a dose of of whatever, but also just with so many people having those experiences without having had any kind of proper preparation, you know. Uh because ultimately these plant ceremonies, all the ancient indigenous wisdom is based around conscious trauma reprocessing. They didn't call it that, they didn't have all the nerdy words we have, but they knew we as humans, we are imperfect and we need to be cleansed. We we need to get crap out of us for as much crap that happens to us. And we do that today, but we do it through psychopharmacology and supplements. We do it all these like give your power away models, seeking for something outside of me to fix me model versus the ancient wisdom, which was like, no, we are the medicine. And to activate, we have to show up. We have to go through some maybe tough stuff. You know, it's not all can so much trading of convenience for, you know, for the freedom. And anyways, I'll stop with that.

SPEAKER_01 33:39

Thank you so much for yeah, just sharing your whole perspective and like the just the clinical side of things to give people a better like understanding of yeah, the experiences that can happen. And I'll even just share, because you might hear, you might be listening and think, okay, you're going through these experiences, but then what? Like, how does that actually change your life? And I mean, you can even say you've been witnessing me over the past, you know, couple of years, how things in my life, you can call it a coincidence, whatever you want to call it, but things have dramatically shifted in my life in every single area. I've just expanded in so many areas, being able to really fully step into my purpose. The way that I look at it, that I perceive it, is like I was able to release so much fear from my body that was I was holding on to for so long, you know, so much pent-up survival energy. And when we're able to allow that to move through us, like be able to access, you know, that life force energy, then we can actually start putting that into creativity, into our art. And I really found that like after that experience, my creativity came back online. Like it really, truly did. And I mean, my business has really taken off since then as well.

SPEAKER_02 34:50

So and just who you are as a woman and how you feel about yourself, right? As a woman, that's the real victory, is how we feel about ourselves, our our quality of life, our sense of self. And that's where I'd see, I see you shine the biggest. And then yes, the professional growth you're experience is awesome. That's a secondary gain, but it's it's a beautiful gain. And to own it, and and for me as well, and usually this is the case, it's not like you stepped off the plane back from Costa Rica and walked into this pixie land. You had a few tough months of facing hard truths and like letting go of things and facing fears, and you but you chose to stay with yourself and with the process, which is why you gotten all these blessings and continue to, right?

SPEAKER_01 35:37

Totally. Well, it's there's no quick fix, right? There's no magic pill. We often say, like, um, an overnight success. I'm not even talking necessarily just about business, but in any area of your life, how things seem to drastically change overnight. But that was from years prior of doing all of that work and then being able to go a little bit deeper and also taking what came up during that ceremony and actually implementing that into my life. Like for me, one of the big things was uh being able to express myself in front of a group of people. Like that was really massive for me, right? Because I had suppressed my voice for so long. I had suppressed all that fear in my body. So being able to express myself there in this with this group of people and feel that love and feel that support, it gave me that permission to be able to start expressing myself, you know, in everyday life. So it's like, what can we take from that experience and actually implement into our everyday lives? And it can just be one small thing that will create a ripple effect and change every single area of your life. And that's what I've experienced from both my experiences going through like your process. Uh, the first one was very humbling, like the word that actually came through for me the very first ceremony was uh humility. And so I really started, you know, contemplating on that word and practicing that over the course of a year. And my life did shift. It was a lot of letting go. I'll say that, right? Because with the healing process, there's a lot of shedding and there's a lot of letting go as well, right? So there might be a lot of expansion, one ceremony, and there might be another one where it's like it comes, there's a lot of letting go, right? So I went back to reality and I had to shed a lot of things and I had to let go of a lot of things, and I had to take an honest look at myself in a lot of areas that felt really uncomfortable. And then I went back and then I had that experience. And then going back home, it was a lot of expansion. So different experiences, but shifted different areas of my life for sure. Yeah, in different ways.

SPEAKER_02 37:39

From from mouse to lioness, right?

Integration Beyond The Talking Circle

SPEAKER_02 37:43

And and no, you bring up a good point though, and help me remember part of the algorithm is the first few days, what we're doing is we're helping each person excavate the core dysfunctional theme. And so, like you said, and that and this is good plays into integration, as if getting out of the all the different stories, all the ways we can just kind of burn a lot of hours telling stories, instead, we go right into the theme of, in your case, being mousy, you know, playing small, whatever it was. And so that's a great way to exemplify for our listeners that that's what how you actually create long-lasting change, is you realize, holy guacamole, where are all the places in my life that I'm playing small, being muzzled, not speaking my truth? And it's like, oh, okay. Or, you know, that's often the case sometimes, just to play fair. Like sometimes it's people that are, you know, too much in control, too much, they have to start recognizing to, you know, sort of rein in as opposed to step up as mouse. And yet, whatever our theme is, if we really take that to heart, that's also how we cultivate long-lasting change. And so that what I'm refining is two main styles of, I guess you could say three main styles of integration, the traditional, which is the talking, the naming, the sharing. And I'm not downplaying it, I'm just saying that's pretty, that's what I've always witnessed is very common. That sort of I did my integration circle. We talked about it, I listened to some other people talk about theirs, and like, good, I guess I'm integrated. What I would say is no, you're like a third integrated. You've gotten the left brain satisfied. The right brain part is the embodied integration, which really has to do with realizing, wow, part of why I felt so good was because I was sitting up straight, I was breathing deep and slow, I was relaxing my jaw. I actually had my shoulders where they belong. I wasn't plopping, you know, all these awarenesses that we overlook or are are not always highlighted properly. So that's one element that I always work with people is like, great, you got these new awarenesses, you got these openings, like let's really study. How are you doing that? How are you gonna keep that alive? Because it's not about the plant. The plant gave you a temporary gift, a temporary reminder. Now you got a call to action, right? And the last part, which is one I think the biggest you're talking about, the relational integration, which is really the bi-hemispheric, where we're taking what we know and what we feel, weaving it together, and having to have a usually it comes down to having to have a lot of what I call truth arrows, harder conversations, speaking truths that have been suppressed, and the people I see that take all three of those seriously, that's the people that do get to experience long-lasting change, and then each journey just fortifies the new fortress stronger, as opposed to like kind of looping, I need to go back to the car wash because my car got dirty again. It's like, no, I'm like, I've been rocking all that. I understand that, I've got clear boundaries. Now I want to know my even deeper purpose and passion or whatever it is, right? So you bring in a lot of good themes there and and the ways we can integrate. And and again, that's another thing that so often, you know, is is used the the common model is you know, usually a seven-day retreat with four to five nights of ceremony pretty much back to back to back and a lot of journey work, but not a lot of real processing. And with the algorithm I believe in, it's it's less is more, and doing you know, some ceremonial work is optional for people that do feel called to that. And yet a lot of it is really about the therapeutics, and the last few days are about those big elements of the cognitive and the um embodied and relational integration, so that we have a really good chance of taking forward whatever it is we got, you know.

The Wounds We Still Carry

SPEAKER_01 41:18

So let me ask you something, vulnerable, if you're open to sharing. So is there like a pattern or a wound that you keep returning to in your own life? So something that continues to humble you that as a practitioner, as a healer, you're still working on.

SPEAKER_02 41:34

Yeah, thank you. Absolutely. Yeah, the work is never done. There are continual upgrades, and each each upgrade less suffering, and yet, you know, the our core wounds are our core wounds, and and I don't know that we ever fully erase them, we just get more graceful. So uh my mine is the abandonment wound, rejection wound, uh partly some, you know, just relational dynamics with my mom, partly uh getting a a nasal infection and getting force-weaned off off of breastfeeding. I think that really drove home or amplified the very common abandonment wound that's out there that's made it stronger. So that's mine, and it's recently been really hit by uh, you know, feeling in great place with that part of myself for quite a while now. And then I made the conscious choice to have a another child about almost nine months ago. And, you know, you think you're enlightened, just go home for Thanksgiving. Uh, you think you're enlightened, just have another baby. And so that that wound has has resurfaced, and and I've been doing a lot of work with myself and my partner with it now, and my baby, and it's humbling, it's super humbling, and yet, you know, I can fully acknowledge, like, you know, exactly as my teachers told me that I'm now sharing with others, is that the the work's never done, and yet there are upgrades. Like it gets easier to navigate the the the old malware. It gets easier to move through the processes that, you know, like you said, you knew it at a point where you just needed another human to come over and lovingly attune to you and say, Hey, just bring a breath here. I got you, we're gonna get through this. Yeah, you know, we're at some times we all all always need that somewhere, right? And and so I've I've been doing my best to try to receive that. And yeah, it's been still very humbling, Alyssa, and yet also I'm proud of myself at how I'm moving through it and aware of it and leaning in better than I have, and you know, I I wanna I don't want to jinx it, but I feel like I might be moving through a good majority of this wham bam um postpartum, you know. Yeah postpartum's real for men too. No, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:53

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:54

For sure.

SPEAKER_01 43:55

It's a spiral, right? Like it is the work is never done. Done, not that we're like a constant like work in progress, right? We're not like a project that we need to fix. But yeah, the work is never done. Like there's always deeper layers that we get to. I even find that there, it's harder. Like the the more that I'm on this path, I mean, it was very obvious what my patterns were initially, right? Like it was very obvious what needed to change. It becomes more subtle. And even as healers, like that's why one of the reasons I respect you so much and look up to you so much is your humility, is your honesty, and is your vulnerability. You know, you don't pretend to be some guru that has everything um figured out and you're fully healed, right? Like we all are continuing to navigate stuff. And I find, you know, the more that you're on your this path, it's like the more that's going to be asked of you. Like the more shadows you're gonna be asked to look at and to integrate. It's a never-ending process. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:54

Uh no, well said. Thank you for seeing me. And I do believe humility is a superpower and and yet, you know, also grounded in in everything I hold. And so with that, I would just say that it, you know, yeah, it is that. And I I feel like it's a pa it's either a negative or a positive snowball. For those of us that ignore this kind of stuff and just brushed under the rug through the illegal or illegal substances, whatever we were, there's some way we're doing it, it just the negative keeps getting bigger and the and the prices get heavier and the body takes the harder hits and whatever it is. Whereas when we're dedicated to not being perfect, but becoming more conscious, becoming a better person each day. It's like a positive snowball. And yes, it can be daunting, like, oh God, I can do this till I die. Yeah. And yet, guess what? You can become much more masterful at it. You can become a lotus farmer. You can learn how to grow lotuses daily. And then it's not, it's not that bad, actually, you know. And and again, why wouldn't I want to be a better person? And goes from the suffering levels of like, do I exist and is it okay? Is it safe? Am I here? To okay, I am safe and I am here, but I have needs. Do I get my needs met? Uh, can I get my needs met? Should I even ask for that? I don't know. Yep. Now I'm learning that I'm getting my needs met. Okay, I have a will. I have the ability to influence other people and myself, because I'm learning that I'm safely existing and that my needs can get met. I can give from a whole different place and use my will to not only help myself get my needs met, but others. And then from there, that next level of healing becomes like in each of those, feel it, there's less suffering. And then all of a sudden, it's like, wow, I know I'm safe and exist, I'm getting my needs met, I'm having healthy relationships. Either I can just go into a pure being state of joy, and or I can become even more philanthropic, which is usually what happens when we're in our source codes, right? Is that the truest form of selfishness where we really just want to truly help ourselves heal, the outcome, the the out the product is selflessness. Because when we get all of our chakras in alignment and we have all of our energy flowing, we're not only self-aware, self-secure, getting our needs met, helping others, we want we we want to give back, you know, it's it's our natural way. So that's the hope. More of us that do the work, the more of us that awaken, the more we want to help support each other and shift some things.

Are You Ready For This Work

SPEAKER_01 47:18

How how would someone know that they're ready to do this work if they've never tried psychedelics before? Would this be, you know, a a good starting point for them?

SPEAKER_02 47:29

And I would definitely say yes, but I just want you to I mean I'd I'd love to just say yes, and I ultimately do say yes. I think we do a great job of creating utmost safety and and a different approach. That being said, I feel like, you know, it's it I get it on the psychedelic question. It's more about is is any person really ready to look deeper into who they are? Uh not just this single mono-dimensional ego, but a multidimensional being that is part mind, part body, part consciousness, and open to exploring that, that's the deepest question. And then do I want to amplify that, expedite that, and practice surrendering and letting go deeper? Then yes, plant plant sacrament work would be a great choice. And something like my kind of programming would be a great intro place as well as sort of a softer bridge rather than being like going right away to somewhere that is gonna serve repetitive high dose without much, if any, actual therapy, you know, maybe some sharing circles. So yes, an elongated yes, Alyssa. And really the deep question is am I willing to step up and just look deeper, period, you know?

SPEAKER_01 48:43

Yeah. And I think that's what people mean when they say, Oh, the medicine is calling me. It's like they're ready to face those parts of themselves, is just what right?

SPEAKER_02 48:52

Yeah, well said.

SPEAKER_01 48:56

With you, it's just such a safe container to begin that work if you are new to that work. I've been to other containers that you just shared or like from like repetitive, yeah, high dose um sacraments, and there was no preparation or integration. And I luckily have the support like going into that now, and I've been doing the work. So I feel okay going into those experiences, but for someone brand new, it could be very destabilizing, right? Not having that preparation or the integration after. So yeah, it's definitely a great place to start for sure. That was my experience. That was like my first experience trying psychedelics in a ceremonial setting like that, which was hard for me. It was really, really hard for me. I'd never been, you know, vulnerable like that in front of a group of people in breath work, but not to that degree. So yeah. Yeah.

Costa Rica Retreat And New Offerings

SPEAKER_01 49:55

And um, why don't we share a little bit about what you have going on? We'll share too. We have our retreat coming up in January, January 17th to the 23rd in Costa Rica. Uh, Dr. Jesse and I will be posting that together. We would love to invite you if you feel called. Um, we'll talk a little bit about that. You can find all the information too in the show notes. So you'll find the link there. Um, and you can book a call. You'll book a call with myself. And yeah, we'll we'll see if it's a good fit on both ends. But yeah, we're really looking forward to that. Do you want to share a little bit about the retreat?

SPEAKER_02 50:28

Yeah, and yeah, there's there's three quick offerings I want to talk about. And yet I want to just bookmark or or bookend everything we just said. And I feel like you just brought home to me one of the most important teachings about the embodied healer, us being able to do the work ourselves is the short way of saying it. What does it really mean is that I'm a bi-hemispheric guide. I don't just use the clinical language and programming I've been programmed with. I don't just use my intuition and full spirit vision. I I learn how to weave them together, right? And all is that to say and to weave in now the psychedelic renaissance and the part of the work that can engage psychedelic assisted therapies is to simply remind everyone that's listening. Alyssa said it a few times, something I love to place in people's ears and hearts, but we are the medicine. Whenever you just said it's when they say the medicine's calling me, really, yes, it is, but the medicine is deep inside and it's saying, hey, I want to know myself deeper. I'm I'm tired of watching myself run these unconscious loops. I know there's more. There's the truth of the medicine in it. It's God given, it's creator-given, it's in all of us. When we say, I want to get more plant medicine, give me more plant medicine, give me plant medicine. You know I love and respect these plants so much, and I call them sacraments, teachers, friends, homies, allies, whatever. Positive, positive relationship. And yet I don't call them the medicine because I'm accidentally giving a little a bit or a lot of my power away when I do that. And so I'm putting a call out, at least a topic of discussion to whoever's willing to engage is to say, just consider shifting your language around it. See if you notice any shift anywhere else in terms of what if I'm not running to something outside of me to fix me that something else is the medicine. What if I really am? And these experiences that I'm seeking or I'm curious about, they are the facilitators, they are the safe playgrounds, hopefully safe playgrounds where I can explore all that. So I want to book in with that, because that's a really important message to me personally, and I do think culturally, even just to get more people out of this mindset of something outside of me is going to fix me and get more of us into the awakening that I am the medicine and my own awakening is going to create my joy, you know, uh, help me remember my joy. So, three ways that we can actually do that together. Right now, one, Alyssa already touched into it, the awaken experience in mid-January 2026. Um, we've we're gonna bring 12 guests down, and it's gonna be an incredible experience, a new appropriated, uh, reiterated version of some of the work that Alyssa described today. And we're at a beautiful location called Metamorphinca with uh Tamascal Sweat Lodge, a sauna, jacuzzi. It's got a like spa element again, feel it. It's the energy of we're honoring the indigenous, and we're gonna go into some very sacred places, and we're also honoring the modern who we enjoy having our you know nice pools and jacuzzies. There's nothing wrong with all of it. Um, and so that's gonna be really beautiful. I'm so excited to co-create that with yourself, Alyssa. Thank you for you know, you were the one that sparked that whole vision. So I'm really grateful for that, and it's coming together beautifully. So that's one offering, the awakened experience. The other one is actually for men. It's a call out to more men to step up to the plate and get better at emotional processing, get better at supporting each other, get better at accessing the collective wisdom. In the old days, there would often be 12 separate chiefs from separate tribes who would gather in a circle around the lands that they collectively inhabited, and they would actually lean into the collective wisdom of these often 12, not always, I'm sure there were variations, but the ancient teachings are there would be 12 chiefs around the fire to gather collective wisdom. And so the second offering is called the Wisdom Collective, and it's a 12-men private event that's partly online and partly in person here in Costa Rica, where we hold each other deeply through these processes and honor vulnerability as a superpower and you know, helping more men to step up. So that's something excited that actually launches today. And then the third offering is going to be coming soon, which is all about kind of what we talked about, the embodied healer. And it's an offering that's gonna be about uh becoming it's gonna be an offering about trauma reprocessing mastery and introducing something called the lotus method, which is a way of what we talked about today. Learning how to be a lotus farmer means learning how to make fertilizer out of shit. It means being able to take something that is hurting someone and turn it into something that empowers them. And so this is gonna be a clinical training, a certification training, partly online, partly here in Costa Rica, where facilitators can learn everything that I've been downloading for the last 25 years about how to integrate the East and the West, how to integrate the modern and the ancient, and how to ultimately become way more confident, competent, create better therapeutic results with their clients, create a practice that's thriving, create prosperity in their lives, and be invited to do some personal work in the process. So that's going to be coming out soon around trauma reprocessing mastery.

SPEAKER_01 55:35

I'm very excited for that.

SPEAKER_02 55:38

Yeah, too.

SPEAKER_01 55:39

I'll I'll share all of that in the show notes for everyone who's interested as well, all the links you'll find there. And yeah, anything else you feel called to share to finish off.

Gratitude And Closing Reflections

SPEAKER_02 55:51

I just I'm just gonna reflect the mirror back at you for the last last wave, Hillissa, and just say, you know, you you are a great example of everything we've talked about today and getting to know you in the last almost three years now and witness your change. Like it's just beautiful to witness. And, you know, to me, you are an example of the the healer who is continually increasing her own embodiment through doing the work and taking some other clinical trainings as well. And yeah, I just want to acknowledge that you and thank you for all you're doing. Thank you for inviting me back on the podcast and excited to, you know, just continue to witness your growth.

SPEAKER_01 56:29

Thank you. Yeah, it's it's always incredible to connect with you and have these conversations. And I just yeah, respect your work so much, and I have so much gratitude for you for everything that you've supported me with over the years. And yeah, I I really truly wouldn't be where I'm right now on my healing journey if it wasn't for us crossing paths. So I'm so grateful for that. So thank you for for joining me today.