The Finance Girlies: Money Conversations for Gen Z and Millennial Women

How Paulina navigates privilege, financial anxiety, and creative work (listener story) / 73

Subscriber Episode • • Emily Batdorf & Cassidy Horton • Season 1 • Episode 73

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We’ve all had that moment where we look at someone’s life and think, how do they actually afford that? Not from a place of judgment — just genuine curiosity.

In this Insiders-only episode, we sit down with our dear friend Paulina to talk through her financial life more openly. From growing up with a lot of privilege (but also lots of financial fear) to building a beautiful, creative, self-employed career, she shares what it actually looks like day to day — including how she supports herself, the role her family’s money still plays, and what feels confusing or unresolved behind the scenes.

We also get into how those realities shape her decisions — from the kind of work she chooses to the way she navigates relationships and spending. It’s an honest, nuanced conversation that doesn’t try to tie everything up neatly, but instead offers a clearer picture of what it can look like to build a life that doesn’t follow the expected path. 

We adore Paulina and so appreciate her willingness to share openly about her financial life. We hope you enjoy this conversation as much as we did!


✨ Episode Highlights ✨

  • [03:30] From perfectionism to creativity — what “celebrating failure” unlocks
  • [11:30] Growing up with wealth and financial fear at the same time
  • [15:00] The pressure of privilege — and why transparency matters
  • [21:30] Having a safety net but still feeling anxious about money
  • [24:30] The reality of self-employment and inconsistent income
  • [27:30] Trust funds, shame, and redefining what’s “fair”
  • [30:00] The uncomfortable truth about inheritance and financial stability
  • [36:00] Emotional spending, creativity, and unpacking money habits
  • [43:30] Navigating money in a relationship with different financial backgrounds
  • [52:00] Being the financial provider — identity, pressure, and partnership dynamics
  • [01:02:00] What people assume about your finances vs. what’s actually true
  • [01:08:00] Clothing, creativity, and redefining what spending “means” for you

✨ Resources ✨

Connect with Paulina:

📩 Get The Finance Girlies newsletter: 
https://www.thefinancegirlies.com/newsletter

💻Visit The Finance Girlies website: 
https://www.thefinancegirlies.com/

💖Email us your money questions: 
hello@thefinancegirlies.com

📸Follow us on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/thefinancegirlies/


SPEAKER_05

Hey girlies, we've all had that moment when you see someone's lifestyle and wonder, how do they actually afford that?

SPEAKER_04

Today we're sitting down with a friend to really dig into that question. Because what you see, how someone spends and lives, is only part of the story. The rest is their background, privilege, mindset, and the decisions they're making behind the scenes. And without that context, it's easy to fill in the blanks with assumptions.

SPEAKER_05

So in this episode, we're getting a little nosy in having these conversations out loud because the more you understand about how someone's financial life actually works, the more you realize that personal finance is way more personal than we think.

SPEAKER_04

Welcome to the Finance Girlies, a podcast for millennial and Gen Z women who are curious about money but have never quite felt at home in traditional finance spaces.

SPEAKER_05

We are Emily Batdorf and Cassidy Horton, podcast hosts, longtime friends, and finance writers for brands like AOL and Yahoo Finance.

SPEAKER_04

Rather than giving you prescriptive advice, we talk about money the way friends actually do. With stories, questions, and a lot of figuring it out in real time.

SPEAKER_05

Paulina, thank you so much for being here. We love you. To start, would you want to give us a quick elevator spiel on who you are, what you do, and what made you want to come on here and talk openly with us today?

SPEAKER_03

Absolutely. Hi, I'm Paulina Pinski. I am a writer, figure skater, and clown. Clown is a new discovery for me, but it's the most exciting discovery as of late. And to introduce myself without it would be a mistake. I met you both in Mexico, and I have been listening to your podcast ever since. And I was just so inspired by what I've heard and I've been learning so much, especially since I'm a self-employed baddie. All my jobs are made up. I like to say all my jobs are made up. I'm a writing coach and I also facilitate cohorts of the artist way. And I came to that retreat being like, I've been self-employed since 2020. So I guess it's not a mistake that I am a business. So I might as well try. So that's when you guys met me. And so yeah, I do a lot of online facilitation, whether that's writing or taking people through 12 weeks of the artist's way. I'm just constantly trying to facilitate community and help people uncover, discover their own creative creative discipline and craft. So yes, I met you in Mexico and I just love what you guys do. And I've been listening to your podcast ever since. And I feel as though I've been learning a lot. It feels very approachable and because I'm allergic to financial anything. You know, and so listening to y'all, I feel like I'm slowly like I'm inceptioning myself with better, with better understanding of what I can do, and also just a willingness, I think, to even approach the topic. And so I'm just really excited to be here. And I just I love and cherish you both. So thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_05

We love and cherish you. And I will say, I mean, we spent like what four or five days around each other in Mexico, and I personally already felt me like stepping into this like more creative, like higher version of myself just from being around you. So that is truly like the energy that you exude. And I don't think that people can exist in your orbit either in person or online and not feel the urge to like step more into who they are like truly supposed to be. And I think that's just a really good gift that you have. I'm gonna cry. Thank you. My second thought.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, thank you. And I really think that that's my purpose on this planet is to hand people permission to be themselves.

SPEAKER_05

I would 100% agree with you.

SPEAKER_03

Which, you know, is a weird thing to monetize. You know, it's like, um, which is why I was on that retreat with you guys. And I was like, how do I do this? How do I do this? Um, but thank you, Cassie. That's very sweet.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. I also want to hear more about the clown part of your bio. Tell us more. What does clown and look like for Paulina Pinski?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. So one of my dearest friends, she's one of the most brilliant comedic performers I've ever encountered in my life. I met her in college. I was like, that's it. So we've been friends for over a decade and sort of witnessing her trajectory and journey. She came to clowning a couple years ago and now has a residency at a comedy theater in LA called the Allegian, a year-long residency where they basically get to do whatever they want, which is really cool. But essentially, I have been in a class, I literally have taken clown one. I had one class of clown two. It's very premature. But the minute the first class ended, I got into my car and ugly cried. Like I feel as though the last 10 years was my trajectory towards clown, which to me, it's the celebration of failure. It's earnestness, it's eye contact and connection. It's it's a form of performance. You could call it performance art. It is this form of improv that is really grounded in audience interaction and failing, which is so liberating. A little bit about my bio. Born and raised in Pasadena, California, I was a competitive figure skater growing up. And that sport is the opposite of celebrating failure. It is perfection. It's like you're walking into the rink and they're telling you what's wrong with your body at 7:30 a.m. in the morning every day. You know, it's, you know, a quarter inch under rotation is a deduction. It's falling is failure, you know? And so that was 13 years, that's ages five to 18. And so when I left to go to school in New York, I was like, fuck all y'all, you know, I'm gonna binge drink. And binge drink I did. And I've always had sort of like a performance thread throughout my trajectory. I went to Barnard College where I studied American studies because I couldn't make a decision and it let me study a bunch of different things. But I always did student musical theater, I played rugby, I was on the sketch comedy team. And so I was always performing. Um, and so after college, I moved to Chicago and studied improv and sketch at the Second City Conservatory. But I was 22 and I had very little life experience and I was so anxious. And the beauty of improv at Second City is it's what they called heart brace, heart-based improv, where you're exploring the emotional truths of the scene, which really resonated with me.

SPEAKER_02

Um, because I don't know if you know about this about comedy, but everybody's like, you do comedy, you tell me a joke. Like, be funny all the time. Joke, joke, joke, joke, joke, and I resent that.

SPEAKER_03

And so I didn't even finish the conservatory. I went back to New York to get my MFA in nonfiction creative writing, and I applied to be a workshop facilitator in the pre-college program and couldn't stop talking about Second City. And they were like, hey, you could teach an elective comedy writing. We haven't had anybody be able to do that for four years. And I was like, okay, great. And so in 2017, I started teaching improv-based sketch comedy to high schoolers in the summers, and that is now my longest running W-2. I've been teaching comedy writing to high schoolers since 2017.

SPEAKER_05

And you still do this?

SPEAKER_03

I still do this. I'm going back this summer. So I've been teaching improv for a decade. I hate improv. I hate doing improv, which is ironic. I love teaching it. I hate doing it. And so I did it first. It was like a three-week elective, an hour a day. It was so successful. They hired me for the second session. The next year I did the first, the second, and then the third session, which is a week-long intensive. I did that for a couple years. During the pandemic, I did it year-round virtually. And then in 2022, I did it for the full seven weeks. That was last time I did the full seven weeks. Last year I did a month. This year I'm just doing a week. So this is like the reluctant W2 that I've kept. Like I just keep getting it, you know? Which is amazing. It's it sounds very fancy. Who doesn't love that? But yeah, so I completed my MFA and um people were asking for writing coaching. And I eventually created an LLC because I was like, I just have to figure out how to pay my taxes on this. And so I feel like I came into entrepreneurship by accident and economic necessity. But in that time, I was in Brooklyn and I led a group of my friends through the Artists' Way in 2020. And it was like such a wild time to lead people through that because it was like the week of the Black Lives Matter like eruption, and it was mostly white people on a Zoom. And we're like, is this self-indulgent and insane? And what I came to realize is that creativity and the container and the fostering of it is imperative to your soul's survival, that no matter what's happening, it is imperative that we create community around self-discovery. And so um I got sober in fall of 2020 or yeah, December 2021. And I was leading my first cohort of Artists Way for Money in 2022, like literally 10 days after I got sober, which I don't recommend. It was insanity. Anybody who doesn't know what The Artist Way is, the Artist Way is a 12-week spiritual workbook meant to unblock creativity written by Julia Cameron. There's a chapter, there's tasks, morning pages, artist dates. These are probably things that people have heard of. It's really hard to do by yourself. It took me six months to do it by myself for the first time in 2018. And so in these containers, it makes it more accessible. There's accountability, there's community. I've been through the book. This last time was my tenth time through the book. So I really live the principles of the artist way. And I think sobriety and artist way are the two sort of pinnacles of my life. Uh, you asked me about clown. Okay, this is how I tell you. That's everything that came before clown. Okay. Okay. So I finally take clown one. And it was the first time in 10 years where I stood on a stage, and it wasn't a real stage, it was in front of my peers, and I had shifted out of overthinking, and I was just doing whatever came to mind. And the sole purpose was to connect with the audience and respond to them. It was like a supreme experience of presence. And I had more fun than I've ever had in my entire life. Like going back from being 22 in the Second City conservatory, the youngest person in the conservatory, sun tied, anxious, second-guessing myself, unable to trust myself, to 10 years later, literally in clown one, being an absolute buffoon, you know, and feeling liberated by that. And so the only, you know, career advice my father has ever given me is all experience is cumulative. And so it's hard to explain clown without explaining everything that came before it.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And it just feels like this culmination of every experience I've ever had. Like it's all sort of the idea of like learning the rules so you can break them.

SPEAKER_06

Right.

SPEAKER_03

Like I have learned so many fucking rules. Right. And I'm so thankful that I can break them now. So you got my bio zoomed in and your answers. I thank you for sitting on this, the train, the train ride of the journey that I just took you on.

SPEAKER_04

Loved it. Loved it. Loved every second of it. We're gonna switch gears, but back to the cumulative journey. Yes.

SPEAKER_03

What was money like for you growing up? So this is an appropriate question given that I just told you that I've been able to move all over the country and pursue my creativity without consequence. You know, like journey to clown, if you can hear, like there wasn't a financial concern. Um, you know, LA to New York to Chicago, which brings me to, I didn't know there was a recession until I went to college. And I was like, oh, that's why the girl on my cheer team was crying. Her dad caused the recession. So all I'm saying is I never experienced financial strain. And I still haven't truly. So growing up, I'm a triplet and uh grew up in Pasadena, which for those who don't know is an affluent sort of suburb of Los Angeles. It's interesting because although we never actually experienced true financial strain, or at least that I was privy to, there is this psychology around money in my family that is about fear. And I think it starts with my grandfather, who was a first-gen um Ukrainian Jewish immigrant, and his parents had a uh grocery store, sort of like a market in Chicago, and they lost everything in the depression. And so there was when my dad was growing up, my grandfather would be like, Oh, you want that? Okay. Oh, you can wave to me from the poorhouse. Yeah, do you want shoes? Okay, great. Bye. Yeah, I'm gonna be in the poor house. And so it's like always sort of told in jest, but it really alludes to this deep-seated financial fear of if you spend money, I will be ruined. Which is ironic because my grandfather was a practicing doctor and they went out west. Um, my family's been in California for three generations now. And so my dad grew up with this idea that there was never enough money. And if he if he got what he needed, then that would ruin his father. And so I think that this is a sort of a psychology that was handed down to the men in my family. Um, I think my brothers got it from my grandfather. I think this is one way in which my gender protected me. Um, they're like, ah, it's a cute dolly, you know, like she's fine, you know. Uh, I got the the body image bullshit and they got the financial fear. But, you know, I think like, you know, my parents had a starter house in Glendale when we were kids. We moved to a giant house in Pasadena that we've been in ever since. And so we've always been more than financially stable. And yet, you know, growing up, I would be like, oh, well, they, you know, so-and-so has a rock climbing wall and a and a pool and a tennis court, and we just have a pool. So like my perception about our wealth was very skewed. And my mom was raised in a different socioeconomic class. So I had sort of like a lower middle class understanding of money with probably lower upper class resources. So that's how it was growing up. I didn't think about it. I had the privilege to not think about it.

SPEAKER_05

But it also sounds like there were so many different things going on. It's like, was the financial stability there on paper? Yes. But also one thing that was going on was like you were surrounded by all of these peers who appear to be so much more wealthy potentially than you are. Maybe that's because they actually are. Maybe that's because their parents are just spending more money and buying nicer things, whereas your family is being kind of like more close fist and tight with the money because of like your grandfather and everything that he passed on to your dad. But there's so much stuff going on.

SPEAKER_03

Totally. I mean, my dad always said, like, your education is the most important thing. And so I'm privately educated kindergarten to masters. And, you know, and I'm thankful for that. You know, um, I have no student debt. Again, another I have every, every privilege that you could imagine, I have. And it's and it's and I want to be transparent about that because I've encountered people who have even more than I have, who are weird and wishy-washy about it. And I think it's because there is shame involved, and there also is secrecy involved. I don't know. It's such a weird psychology. So the other thing though is that I was a competitive ice skater, and that is a very expensive sport. And so there was this like in probably elementary school, my mom would be like, Oh, you want to quit? Fine. I can have a beach house instead. Like, you can quit. I'll have a beach house instead. I would just, you know, this one particular memory. It's like, you know, I understood that there was an investment being made in me for my sport, which put so much pressure. Again, this is why the celebration of failure is liberating, because I was an eight-year-old who they were like telling like diet advice to. You know, my body became the problem when I was eight years old. I was going to a nutritionist every week by the time I was 12. They were weighing me, telling me exactly what to eat. It's like, and then obviously the eating disorder commenced. And it's like, how like it's so funny. I mean, I can laugh about it now. It's very pro I mean, I'm so thankful to be in eating disorder recovery now for 13 years, I think. And and the can this is a diatribe that I could go on, but it's just like the contemporary moment of diet culture right now is so reflective of what I grew up in. And it's such a privilege to be like, wow, I'm not interested. Like you can't convince me, you know. Yeah. But it was very clear that like there was money being invested in me and that I might like commit, like put up or shut up kind of thing. But that it's interesting to think about it as now because I didn't necessarily think about the money aspect. It was more just like, well, this is what they are expecting of me. You know, I didn't really understand ice skating or beach house. Right. Because we also had a beach house, my grandfather's beach house, you know.

SPEAKER_05

So you're like, what would it be, Mom? A second beach house?

SPEAKER_03

Like, but we have a beach house, Mom, grandpa's beach house. Yeah. So it's it's super dense and layered, you know? Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. And also, like so much pressure to put on a child. Like, my heart truly just breaks for like eight-year-old Paulina. I'm like, that's so unnecessary.

SPEAKER_03

Agreed. Agreed. And I I feel like who I am now is paying tribute to who I mean, I mean, I'll show you guys, but to narrate, I have this photo strip of me as an eight-year-old. You know, I knew exactly what face to pull in every frame. Smile, funny, kissy lips, taco tongue, you know. Like there was this show pony in me that loved what I was doing, but the spirit was crushed, eventually. Yeah. And I feel as though the work that I do now is in service of her. Like I feel more aligned to my eight-year-old self than ever. So it's like I can conjure these things and not feel grief because I'm I'm who she deserved to become, you know?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You're honoring her truly.

SPEAKER_03

What a gal. I know. Me. I'm amazing.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. I feel like that even about myself. I think about my eight-year-old self probably more than like any other version of me. And maybe that's do you feel like you do that, Emily? Do you do you ever reflect on eight-year-old you?

SPEAKER_04

Like ten, I would say. Okay. I feel like like being ten was awesome. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03

What do you love about being 10? I wanna I want to know.

SPEAKER_04

That's a great question. I don't know. I feel like as a girl, kind of like right before you hit middle school is like sadly in my like memory, like where your confidence kind of peaks.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And like I wasn't scared of anything. Like I just like tried everything. I don't know. I was like a shy kid, but like not timid. I don't know. That's like how I think of myself at 10.

SPEAKER_03

I feel as though every person who is, you know, socialized as a girl slash woman has the before and after, like, either like the world broke them. You know, it's like like becoming a woman sucks. Like and it is like such because it's like I was eight and like my nipple nipples were starting to put my body was starting to change. And I was in a sport where being pre-pubescent is the ideal body type. And that's the unspoken thing is that I was becoming a woman. And so in order to stop that, we had to starve it down. And you know, eight to ten is sort of like that final moment of girlhood before like puberty starts and like social expectations, hormone, all that stuff. And it is this moment of unbridled self. And I just see eight-year-olds now. I'm like, you are a baby. You are Denny baby, you know? But I do think that the like work of our lifetime is like who was that person and how do I bring her back?

SPEAKER_05

You know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think the the parallel between our stories is like mine was not ice skating, but mine was more like growing up in the South and evangelical Christianity. So it's like as you approach puberty, you're just immediately taught to like be ashamed of your body and to think that you are now responsible for literally every single boy's like for keeping their minds pure. And if they don't, like it is on you. And it I don't know. I just became like so aware of my changing body and like how it could be like tempting other people to the point where it was like all I thought about. It's so such a sad state to live in.

SPEAKER_03

Totally. And you know, the thing that's so ironic is I was not raised in any formalized religion, and yet that purity culture is pervasive. You know, it's like at 12, I went to school and my skirt was too short, and I didn't, I wasn't, I wasn't trying to sexualize myself. It's that I had grown and my shirt, my skirt became short all of a sudden, you know, and Mrs. Kincaid, my sixth grade English teacher, like shamed me, you know, and this sort of scarcity and fear and shame, you know, it's I can't help but find the parallel between the like, okay, well, you're gonna send me to the poor house, you know. It's like, it's like we're being sent to the poor house, you know? Like we are the poorhouse. And if you if you even look at us, you are going into debt, you know? Like, I don't know. I I've the more time I set spend reflecting about my childhood, the more like I'm a triplet. I have two brothers. I got to be a boy until I was eight, which means that I was not socialized differently than my brothers until then. When we approach puberty until these big old titties came marching in.

SPEAKER_05

That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_03

You were like, I didn't ask for this. I didn't ask for this, man. Take them back. Yeah. They have a return policy, please.

SPEAKER_05

That's funny. Okay. So you've given us some context for what money was like for you growing up. So now I want to transition into how do you think about money now?

SPEAKER_03

I think even though I obviously come from a privileged background with abundance, I still feel financial fear all the time. And I think for me. It's a kind of unfolding of, okay, I'm not generating that much income, but I am okay. You know, and it is this sort of it it essentially is a unwinding of finding that, you know, the financial fear in my family is also like a cultural financial fear and a very real reality that, you know, money is a means for living, money is a means for access, money is a means for feeling safe. And so in adulthood, um, as as described, I have my own um business, an LLC that is S-Corp. And so I have my business, and then I have like a personal checking and savings. And then, you know, the real reality is is like of my own devising, I would not be able to sustain my existence. I do make some income, but I don't make a lot. And that is, you know, by choice that I take clown class and I spend my time writing. And sometimes that is generative financially, and sometimes that's not. So there is a fund that was invested in stocks and it has been probably before since I was born. And so I do have this safety net. I do have a safety net. I absolutely have a safety net. And even with that safety net, I feel financial fear.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Where I am trying to create enough to support myself, but that isn't always possible. And, you know, I think that that's the difficulty being a freelancer. And I've heard you guys sort of talk about this of like some years are good, some years are bad, some quarters are good, some quarters are bad. Um, you know, when I'm doing art display, I'm doing good, you know, but I'm doing that once or twice a year. Um, and so otherwise it's kind of just figuring it out. And, you know, I have done childcare for a decade plus, you know, like I'm a babysitter. Oh, like there are things that I do because I don't necessarily believe that what you do for money is who you are, you know. Right. And I especially coming out of, you know, Ivy League bullshit, there were so many people who are like, that work is beneath me. You know, it's like uh you're not applying to a corporate job, like uh who who do you think you are? You know, and it's like I I've tried I've tried to apply for corporate jobs, you know, in when I'm in that fear-based space of like, it would be nice to have money just plop into my account and have benefits and just like nine to five, whatever, but that hasn't been my path. That that hasn't been what has yielded anything for me. And and the real truth is that I can pull on this fund and do things that my what I generate wouldn't necessarily allow for. And I think that there's more people in my position. I think this is why part of why I was so inspired to talk to you guys, because I think there are people in our lives where we look at them and we're like, how do they pay for stuff? And what does it even look like? And again, like having people in my life who are like, you know, their dad bought their house and their car and they don't work at all. Like sometimes I'm like, wow, I was born to the wrong rich white man, you know, like, you know, it's like I find myself being like, wow, I wish I was that, you know, it's like I bought my car, you know, but granted I bought it with a book that I co-wrote with my dad, you know? It's like these sort of things that I I guess it's more so when I was in graduate school, there was a woman in one of my workshops who who raised her hand and she was like, How do I write about my privilege without upsetting people, my financial privilege? And my friend Tiffany in the other side of the room was like, You didn't say you had a private driver, you know, and obviously it was a very specific context, but it really showed me how transparency is a way to not upset people. And granted, there's gonna be people who are upset no matter what, but I do think that the more transparent we can be, and I think that obviously we're in this moment where like tech eagle maniac billionaires are like just taking over our fucking existence and like it's easy to villainize. I villainize those motherfuckers and I want to villainize. I'm not, I'm not saying like fuck Elon Musk, you know, but fuck Jeff. But I think it's more just like I just find transparency to be such a liberating strategy, and it fucking scares me to talk about this stuff. And that's why like I go towards what it's hot to the touch, and I think more times than not, if you're looking at someone, you're like, how do they pay for it? It's like, well, either their parents paid for it or their parents started a fund when they were born in there, but that's paying for it. You know, and I think it's safe to assume that. And I don't know, and I so so coming back to the psychology of money, you know, when I'm sitting up late at night spiraling, I have to remind myself that I am so lucky and that not everybody has that safety net. And for me to feel that fear is doing a disservice to everybody, you know. Because in my early 20s, I would like flog myself because I was like, I'm a bad leftist because I have a trust fund and I'm not gonna distribute it to the masses, you know? Like it's like kind of like I'm a bad leftist. Like I felt so much shame because I have this thing that most people don't. Then I came to realize that if anybody else was in my position, they would utilize it as the resource that it is. So that's the long-winded answer.

SPEAKER_04

Can I ask, without you saying more than you want to say, like how do you feel like your relationship with money differs from your brother's?

SPEAKER_03

Like, you know, because you were raised in the same family. Totally. Well, I just want to acknowledge that the back of my knees are dripping sweat, which tells you that this is not a topic I'm used to talking about. And I just really, as an artist, my sort of central philosophy is like, go through, go towards what feels hot to the touch, which means like what is sexy and scary and you can't stop thinking about, which is why I'm I'm the transparency is very vulnerable. But I love this topic and I would love to talk about it. So I have one brother who is trying to make as much money as possible. He is the opposite, but he has the scarcity mindset, and he has it almost feels as though he has embodied the 80s idea of wealth and uh success. It's like he's trying to aspire to what my parents built. And then I have another brother who is studying to become a therapist and uses the resource that we have to sustain himself. And so it's like kind of polar opposites. And I think sometimes what I find difficult with the brother who makes a lot of money is that it's hard for them to understand that I don't have that same wealth aspiration. I just feel a lot like they judge me.

SPEAKER_06

Like it's like, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And so it's interesting to depart from the values of my family of origin. Um, and part of that is who I'm choosing to marry. His parents were public school teachers. He is interested in the labor movement. You know, I feel as though I'm marrying into a new set of ideals, which are my ideals and they align, but I am making the choice to not sustain the values of my family of origin, which is liberating and terrifying, right? Because it's like all I've ever known, but also, you know, not necessarily whatever felt right.

SPEAKER_06

Right.

SPEAKER_03

And so it's such an interesting dichotomy of the more true I become to myself, the more alienated I feel from my family of origin. And it's a painful dichotomy. It's a super painful dichotomy. And I can see why people like do exactly what their parents did and buy a house next door and do the exact same thing. I get it. How, how delightful, you know? Like, how simple. Yeah. And I think there's this new, I think the new emerging middle class will be millennials whose parents died and they inherited financial stability. Because like my friends will be like, you know, I hate to say it, but once my parents die, I'll be fine. And it's fucked up. But I think there's so many of us who exist in that camp of barely scraping by, hitting rent as best as we can, gig economy. But once our parents die, we can buy a house. Right. Which is such a dark reality. And the only reason I bring it up is because multiple people have confessed this to me in the exact same way. Because they clocked that I'm also in that category. Right. And so it's interesting. And that's why I want to talk about it because I think that there's more people who are in this tier of I'm my own, I'm fucked. But and it's like, it's not, of course, I don't want my parents to die. That is not at all like what I'm saying. But I think that there's a lot of people who are know like it's the same thing as like the financial fear I feel of it's unreal, like it's actually a waste of my time to truly feel fear when I know that like down the line, I'm gonna be fine. Right.

SPEAKER_01

You know?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It's such a head fuck. It is so weird. It is so weird.

SPEAKER_05

It's like yeah, it's dark, I think. Do you feel like if you truly wanted to, you could have lived more of the like unfettered lifestyle where it's like my parents did buy my house and they did buy my car. Like, was that ever an option to you? That path?

SPEAKER_03

I think that if I hadn't gotten sober, I could have morphed into the version of entitlement that is required to demand that of my parents, because I don't think that they would have done that willingly. Okay. I don't think that they would have done that willingly. I'm getting married this year, and my parents are paying for it, and I was given a budget. And, you know, like Tracy and I, my fiancee and I love to sort of Zillow, like Zillow window shop. So every once in a while I'll be like, Oh, look, mom, this house is near you. And she was like, It's either a house or a wedding. I was like, I didn't know that a house was on the table and I wouldn't have had a wedding if a house was on the table.

SPEAKER_06

You know?

SPEAKER_03

This is also a woman who early on was like, I'll give you 50 grand to elope. And I was like, great. And then I brought it up again. She was like, I didn't actually mean that, you know? So I think that my parents' idea of financial security. I don't I again, it's like I would have had to be a more like manipulative version of myself to have extorted that. Like my parents weren't gonna willingly give me that. You know what I mean? Okay, okay. Which I appreciate. I do because I I I think that I witnessed that in other people, and it is a sort of impairment. You know, like I have had to build things for myself, albeit not to their standard or to their level of wealth, but she's building. This LLC has been running since 2020, baby. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Okay. I have another question that's gonna feel weird, I think, but I I think it will circle back around.

SPEAKER_03

Give me.

SPEAKER_05

Do you feel like it is safe for me to say that you have never really been one to like fall into the people-pleasing camp?

SPEAKER_03

Okay. Oh my god. Okay, so um, I wish that was true. I wish that was true. At the height of my addiction, I was paying for my ex's friends to fly into New York, paying for tickets for things, taking him on vacation, trying to fix our relationship. I used like, okay, this is this is an embarrassment, but I'm gonna share it because we're here now. People pleasing was how I survived the first 29 years of my life. Now I feel like I'm I'm better, you know. So I wrote a teen guide to consent with my dad that I called the consent book I didn't consent to. I did, I did consent. I signed papers. Yeah, it kept me financially solvent during the pandemic. I got a payment on signing, I got a payment when we turned our pages in, I got a payment when it was published, and I got a payment a year later. I got a payment when it was published in September, some December 21st, 2021. My payment was gone by December. All of it. Gone. It was also like right before I got sober and was like the height of my addiction and like trying to fix my relationship, which was with the most prolific drug addict you've ever met. So there was no way I could fix that relationship. That was$20,000 gone.

SPEAKER_06

Wow.

SPEAKER_03

So, yes, I have experienced supreme people pleasing, especially in friendships where I feel as though I'm trying to perform for lack of a better word, like allyship, right? Like as a person, all my friends tend to not be in the same socioeconomic class as mine. And so coming from that place of guilt, I would like over overdo it and spend to the detriment of myself. So I don't know if that helps close that circle, but it's better now.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah. Well, my my first thinking with the people pleasing question was with your family specifically, because it seems like like I'm sure that you were handed the idea of like you need the scarcity mindset and all of this stuff, but it seems like you questioned it from an early age, and now you're at the point where, like, I'm sure that that is still baked into you to some degree, but it also seems like you challenge it a lot and that you're choosing to live a life instead that you feel to be more true than like these maybe money beliefs that were handed to you as a kid. And to me, that screams like Paulina has the guts to like do what she feels true to herself, even if it makes her kind of like an outcast in her family. And it feels like that kind of comes natural to you. So yeah, that that was kind of the point of the question.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I mean, I think now it feels natural, you know. As a child, my mom decided what clothes I was, she bought shop for me. She decided she started getting my hair highlighted when I was 10. I couldn't cut my hair shorter than she wanted. You know, it's like I was under such a regime of control that to me now it's like I feel allergic to the idea. Like anytime I feel that pinge, the twinge of like contorting myself into a shape that doesn't feel right for me, I can't do it. And I think too, like going to college, and obviously, like Barnard is an like a IB league institution. Most of the students around me were in the same socioeconomic status as me. But you know, my best friend, you know, financial aid. Like all my friends are on financial aid, you know, and I think it's it has been such a crash course in understanding by by virtue of the people that are closest to me. And there's a lot of discussion, especially in, you know, the peak woke era of 2011 to 2015, talking about race as like um the scrim for which we we view people. But I really think that the this is really about class. Cross-class relations don't happen a lot. And if they do, they're in financial in imperative, right? It's like a higher class person hiring a lower class person. And it's always a person with less who recognizes more than the person who has more. And when you have a lot of money, you can isolate yourself, you can afford to isolate yourself. Yeah. And I think more and more it's becoming clear to me that like I don't want to be isolated. I think that like community, it's you know, and I think especially in relationship with Tracy, it's like I come from such an individualistic ideology, and he comes from a community-oriented ideology. And I think, you know, obviously the communities that I facilitate come at a cost so that I can support myself. And I do think I offer a valid service for what I cost or what I charge. But it really is this idea of like me versus we. And if you can own your own airplane, then you don't have to sit next to a stranger on a plane, you know? Like you are you are preserving your sense of reality and you are create you're creating your own version of reality that is not the majority of people's reality. You know, inconvenience is a valuable teacher. So I just I think mostly like my close friendships have taught me more about economic reality than anything else. And the people who I feel most aligned to in a spirit sense are not in my economic like of origin. Yeah. And that's I don't know what to say, I don't even know what to think about that, but I think I'm I'm thankful for that because I feel as though I I'm continuing to do the work of unpacking like what do I want versus what I'm told I'm supposed to want.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. That's such a beautiful question to continue to ask yourself.

SPEAKER_03

Totally.

SPEAKER_04

So what are some of you some of your favorite things to spend money on? And is there anything you feel guilty spending on?

SPEAKER_00

I love spending money on clothes and I feel guilty spending money on clothes.

SPEAKER_03

It's a two for one package deal. Two for dog, I love clothing so much, and I know it's my primary, like, honorary expense. You know? Like and being engaged in marrying a man who really doesn't spend money, there's a package at the door, it's mine. It's a package at the door, it's mine, it's a package at the door, it's mine, it's a package at the door, it's mine. And then I'll be like, I'm not gonna spend money on clothes this month, and then I'm like, but it this was on sale and I need it. So that's how like the like the true psychology of my childhood is that I can get whatever I want when I want. And I know that's unsustainable. I know that's unsustainable given how much money I make.

SPEAKER_06

Right.

SPEAKER_03

And I have to be real about the fact of like, do I want to drain this safety net resource on pants? And the answer is no, you know? Yeah, but it's is such a deep, entrenched, like dopamine, sure, but it's more like, and I also am sober, so I don't get my yaws out like everybody else. You know what I mean? I have so few things left, you know? Right. It's how I justify it. And so this is this is my cross to bear is how much I love NorCal, slow fashion, ethically made clothing. And how many pants do I wear? Rocket. Thank you. This is the problem. I do not want to be an influencer.

SPEAKER_04

However, I was just gonna say don't influence me.

SPEAKER_03

I want to get to the point where people send me things for free so that I can stop. I don't want to be an influencer if only I hate the premise. But if they could just send me pants, I would be doing great. I I will not have to rob myself blind of my future security. You know? Like clothes is my cross to bear because I just it's also like I feel like clothing is part of my creative practice and self-definition is how I dress. And then I can be like, oh, it's like it's like the poor house is on one side, and then it's like, well, I'm actually okay, you know? So I clearly do not have this thing figured out, you know.

SPEAKER_05

It's tough though, when it when it's so clearly a creative outlet for you. It's not just like I spend a lot of money on clothes because I want to spend a lot of money on clothes. It's like you are very clearly expressing yourself, learning things about yourself, like inspiring other people, getting a lot from it, giving a lot to other people through it. Like it's a blessing and a curse.

SPEAKER_00

Tonight I'd be like, Cassidy told me that I'm gonna buy the pants people by buying these pants.

SPEAKER_04

I mean, we were when we were in Mexico for like four days, you uh gave one of our friends some pieces from your wardrobe, and it was just like the most like pure, like this would look amazing on you. You have to have it. And and she was glowing. She put it on and she was glowing, and it was like, this is Paulina.

SPEAKER_03

This is my favorite. I will carry something with me, like in my closet. I'm like, why can't I get rid of this? And then six years later, I'm like, oh, because I had to give it to Cassidy. You know, it's like, yeah, peace has this sort of like magic trajectory. And what I gave Megan, my friend Jenny, had given to me. And I was like, oh, this is perfect, like for Mexico. But I was like, I'm bringing it to Mexico, but I don't actually think it's right for me. And then I saw her, I was like, I know exactly who this is for.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. It's like the red bandana. I was gonna say, Paulina gave me a red bandana, and you just walked out and you were like, This would look great on you. And I was like, done. And I kid you not, I have worn that bandana at least 50 times. And every time I wear it, I am feeling myself.

SPEAKER_03

I felt it. I was like, I bought this bandana for Cassidy. I really felt that way. Yeah. I just there is magic in the universe, and like clothing is such a part of that. And I think especially coming from, you know, being a teenage girl who would cry in the the the whatever dressing room trying on jeans, you know, it's like it is so beautiful to be an adult who is like, oh, they don't fit. Okay, you know, like there that that clothing can not only be a neutral thing, but they can be a magical thing, is so one of my favorite journeys that I've been on.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah. And even just hearing you talk about it, I'm like the passion.

SPEAKER_03

I know. Maybe I should just start writing it off as a business expense. Don't no bad idea. Don't do that. Don't do that.

SPEAKER_04

You don't endorse that idea.

SPEAKER_03

I'm gonna bankrupt up my LLC's gonna fold soon.

SPEAKER_05

I'll be like, yeah. Paulina's business brought a negative$30,000. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

My accountant will be like, Is what was this for? Be like, my Instagram dopamine dressing that has 300 followers? Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_05

All right, Queen. I love that. Okay. We know that you're engaged, and so we also wanted to take a moment to ask you about how you handle money in your relationship, especially because you're both coming from different socioeconomic classes. And then how do you expect how you currently handle your money to change once you're married?

SPEAKER_03

So um, when we met, Tracy was working like two, three jobs and going to school, and we split everything 50 50, which felt very feminist to me. Um and I've also never really been in a relationship where like the man takes care of everything. You know, like in a sort of traditional sense, like I hold the power, you know, which is like a very disorienting cultural script to not, you know, it's just and I'm thankful for. Um so we always split. Everything 50-50. We moved into each other. We moved in together very quickly. We split rent 50-50. And then we moved to Minnesota for a year because he had a job. And I think we both like he his grandma gave him her his inheritance early. And I think I asked my parents for some money to move, and we both like had equal sums. And we bought a car together with part of those sums. Minnesota, he was working 50-50. Also, our expenses were way less. We came back to California. We're in the same apartment. My brother was living in this apartment. This apartment is a steal for SoCal. So I'm living in a cheaper apartment, two bed, one bath, no washer, dryer, or dish dishwasher. There's a shared laundry. I drive to my parents' house to use their laundry in Peloton often. They live seven minutes away. But since we've moved back from Minnesota, it's been very, very hard for him to find a job. And so I have been the primary for a year. And it's interesting because I don't necessarily feel that much of a difference in terms of my expenses, which shows you that I was spending too much before. Like if anything, it curbs my spending a little bit. But it had like, if anything, you know, it's more about like the existential burden that like he identifies as a worker and labor is a huge part of his identity and not being able to work has been really hard. But as of now, I am I am daddy. So I've been supporting us, which I'm able to do. However, on the eve of us getting married, we did open joint banks bank accounts. We have a checking and savings, which we need to finish setting up. The idea being that our shared, we sort of calculated based on what we I listened to you guys about, you know, we calculated what our base expenses, like for necessities, are every month. And so we have an understanding of how much we need to make every month to cover those. But I still have all my other accounts. And so this would be for like rent, uh, the car, internet. He pays his phone um with his sister. My parents still pay my phone. My parents pay for my phone and my health insurance. Um it's an incredible privilege. And I think what are a car, rent, food, groceries, food, food, groceries, gas. So we have that base net. And so I have complete faith that he's gonna find a job. He's like also gonna be graduating in May with a BA in labor and employment studies. Very excited for him. So he's like in this weird limbo between having the degree and not having the degree, you know? And so he'll probably end up with like a stable office job that grants us benefits. And I will be like, do daddy dancing around him, you know?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. Yeah. So that's our that's our I feel like this is relatable because I think to myself, like if I was ever in a relationship and like I could financially provide and the person that I was with couldn't, I think I would feel okay with it. I'd be like, this is a season, like let let me let me be daddy cast, like let me provide. But if the inverse happened, like I also deeply identify as a worker and like someone who really wants to have her own financial resources. And I think if I was ever in a position where the roles were reversed, I would be like, identity crisis, I've gotta find a job. This is so hard.

SPEAKER_03

It's painful. It's super, I think it's more painful for him than it is for me. Yeah, you know, and I've had to sort of consistently be like, like, I I'm not lying to you. Like, I'm okay. Like, yeah, we are okay. And, you know, like for him, like to not work means to to die, you know, like he does not have that safety net, you know, and so it's existential to marry into that safety net, right? And wrap your head around it. Like I've always had that. Like it is a psychological burden to not have that safety net, you know, majority of people don't. And so it is a humbling for me, it is a learning process for me, but also, you know, he may never feel comfortable. And like I have to like pause and respect that of like what I have is unrealistic. Majority of people do not walk around the world being like, if I have a heart attack in Mexico, you know, whatever, I will be okay. It will not, I won't lose the house. Whatever fucked up thing that you can sort of imagine. It's like it's it's been so illuminating, sort of like I walk through the world knowing that I'm gonna be okay. And that probably informs a lightness of being that most people can't have. So I'm realistic about that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

But let's pray to Elvis and all our guardian angels that Tracy gets a job. Because he is one of the most like competent, wonderful, intelligent, funny human beings that I've ever met. And uh it's just so it's so crazy and painful to watch people going through the job search because it's just like oh, you're just trapped in AI filters.

SPEAKER_00

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03

Like it's just I think those of us who are self-employed we're kind of lucky because it's like yeah, we're used to making up jobs.

SPEAKER_04

My husband went through a job. I mean, he was employed, but he was like really ready for something new, and it was a long and painful road. Totally. But he found something new eventually. Yeah. It just takes time and it's painful. It is deeply uncomfortable. What do you think people assume about your finances that isn't true?

SPEAKER_03

I think they think I exist in the my dad can pay for my house and car and wants to. Yeah. But like everything in my life is supported by my parents. I think that I think it would be easy to assume that. And I think it would be easy to be like upset by the idea of that. But I think for me and my brothers, I think there's too much like psychological trauma there for us to ever exist in that class. Because we probably could, you know, but my parents would never.

SPEAKER_05

As you mentioned earlier, it would take some deep manipulation on your part to like get there if you truly wanted to, and that's just not something that you would do.

SPEAKER_03

No. Like if I had if I was on a different path. You know, but I think part of being sober is like being emotionally sober and doing things that we earn, and you know, it's right, it's living in an ethical fashion. And I think if I had continued to drink and use and, you know, contort into, you know, whatever that may have been. I can see a ver like alternate evil reality where like other timeline where I like became more evil rather than more good, that could have happened. But not in this timeline.

SPEAKER_05

We like the Paulina on this timeline. How do you show you?

SPEAKER_03

We want we want her. I'm so thankful to be existing on this timeline. This is like the most fun timeline that I can think of. The other was like a news broadcaster, probably on like Good Morning America, or um I like would have like kept being bulimic and like gone to USC and been a cheerleader or something. You know what I mean? Like all the other versions, I'm like, yuck. Not for me.

SPEAKER_05

No, no, no shade to any of those identities, but we don't want the professional clown and the person who spins way too much on clothing because it's her creative out. Like, give us that version.

SPEAKER_03

I mean, the thing is is like you're not gonna catch me with a Louis Vuitton bag, you know what I mean? But you will catch me with like five pairs of linen pants, you know? Like it's a it's a it I granted the cost is not the same, I don't think. Maybe um, but I I like this timeline too.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah. We're gonna catch you in a cobalt blue towel that's been upcycled into a killer jacket. That's what we're gonna catch you in. There it is. Right behind me. I freaking love that jacket so much. I will. I love ethical fashion. I love upcycled shit. Me too. Me too. My my wardrobe is probably like I maybe have like five or six things that have been upcycled, and they are truly like my I'm like my precious. I love you so much.

SPEAKER_03

You're just getting started.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah. And I truly like am feeling myself to the nth degree anytime I'm wearing any of them. I'm like, I was born to live in you.

SPEAKER_03

This is what I mean, like that's the feeling that drives me, you know, where you're just like like every morning I wake up and I'm like, what do I want to wear? And it's like this like vision is conjured, you know. I'm like, of course. You know, like today is is this shirt or whatever. You know, it is such a magical, whimsical part of my creative practice. So I understand.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Not to get us too off topic, but when I wake up and get dressed, it's like the opposite of that. It's like dread.

SPEAKER_02

Dread.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, it's like, uh, I have to like pick out something to wear. Like, that's not gonna work. That doesn't match, that's in the laundry, or like none of this feels comfortable. You know what I mean? I mean, no, I do. It sounds very different from your experience, but what is your favorite color?

SPEAKER_03

Blue. Do you wear blue?

SPEAKER_04

I do.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

What textures do you like? Soft. Mm-hmm. Soft textures. Do you feel yeah, go ahead. Cotton linen. So do you feel dread when you put on those textures? No, I'm not sure. I know this is a loaded question. Like, what are the items that you own that make you feel dread?

SPEAKER_04

It's not the items, it's the like the sense of putting them together. And like assembling an outfit. Maybe I need to hire you for some fashion because I feel like we need to do it.

SPEAKER_03

I know. Literally, let's Marie Kondo you. Like, does this bring me joy? And if it doesn't, you say thank you, and you put in a pile and you give it away. You know, like I think, I think it would be it would be a delightful exercise for you to like go through your closet and every object being like, does this object bring me joy? You know? And like, how do you feel about the zip up you're wearing right now?

SPEAKER_04

I like this. It's like my comfy, like excellent. Throw it on. It doesn't really match anything, but I I just like it. What if you don't have to match?

SPEAKER_03

This is the other thing. What if matching doesn't fucking matter? I don't think it does. I think like all the rules that we're taught of like no horizontal stripes because they make you look fat, like whatever, you know, horrible things that like what if nothing has to match? And it's just about like I want to wear this zip up and these linen pants. And if they're different, I mean for me, it's like I've completely divested from the color black. There is like one black dress in my closet because every like unless I'm in a really bad mood, I don't want to wear black. And so, like the colors that exist in my closet all are bright, and so they all kind of work together, which is why I ask, like, what's your favorite color? Because it's like you could only own blue clothes if you wanted, you know? And then you have this pullover that goes with blue. I just like I also resent the like a color analysis where like I'm a soft autumn and I can't buy anything that isn't soft autumn. I'm like, I don't have the patience for that. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not gonna exist in your color hierarchy, bitch. You know, like I'm gonna buy whatever the fuck I like, you know.

SPEAKER_05

I also feel like I'm being gaslit every single time I see those. I'm like, I'm not seeing everyone in the comments is like, oh, it's so obvious. It's so obvious. And I'm like, what is obvious? I don't, I don't see it.

SPEAKER_03

I don't see it either. It feels like another rule that keeps you trapped in a cage. Can you imagine? Okay, also you go into a contemporary store, okay, everything is white, beige, black, and navy. That is what you're gonna find because we're all joyless in this contemporary version of America. And so we want to buy something that we can wear over and over again because we're neutral, right? The beauty of wearing bright colors all the time is that they're always on sale. No one else is gonna buy the hot pink leggings, you know?

SPEAKER_06

That's true.

SPEAKER_03

And so it's also like what we're being presented with. Like a lot of the options that we're being presented with are so fucking joyless. So, Emily, my exercise for you is like literally like set aside like an afternoon and just go through your closet and like really like with each one, like have it in your hand and be like, deep breath. Does this do I like the color? Do I like how it feels? Do I like wearing it? If it isn't yes to all three, like buy. I give you permission. And then the other thing too is like I sell stuff on Deepop all the time. So like I'm constantly trying to like pull the herd to justify adding to the herd. Like, you could sell stuff on Depop and get five bucks, you know what I mean? Or just donate it or whatever it is, but like in the same vein of like finding something, it's rightful home. Like Deepop keeps that fantasy alive. Is that helpful or terrifying? All reports back. Yeah, there's an amazing stylist named Sophie, Sophie Strauss. Um, she's on Instagram. She's incredible. She's markets herself as the stylist to the people. So she's amazing. Yeah, and I recommend following her. And she kind of has helped sort of my own sense of like liberatory practice around clothing of, you know, don't look at the size, look at the fit, you know. Like, do you want it oversized? Do you want it tight? You know, sort of like, how does this garment live on you? Yeah. And she's make big into ethical fashion. She's like, I'm trying to only bring in four items in my closet this year. I'm like, whoa my god, like must be nice. I don't know, man. I'm working on it. That's hard. So we're going on an insane honeymoon that I absolutely dipped into that account to finance. Um and then and then we both were like, what are we doing? We actually can't do this. And I was like, no, we can do this. We're getting married once. I might get pregnant. Who the fuck knows? The world is ending and we can do this. You know what I mean? Like, it's such a it's such a mind fuck because we're we're going on a cruise and then we're taking a train through Italy, Switzerland, and France, you know? And it's gonna be insane. And and he's never traveled like that. I have. Um, and I'm very fortunate for that. And my brother got married and got pregnant right after, and we're waiting for baby number two to drop literally this week. They've been married for two years next week. So I'm like, if I get pregnant immediately, there is no honeymoon like that ever again. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, and so I'm kind of like, I mean, YOLO, but also like again, it's the dichotomy of we can do this, but also we can't, but we can do this. So of course he was like looking at the cruise last night and he was like zooming in on Google Maps, and I was like on my phone, and I was like buying a hat, and he was like, Are you buying something? I said, Yes, I need this hat on that trip. And he said, if you keep buying those hats, we're never gonna get to go on those trips. So no. I'm I'm sitting here being like, What outfit am I gonna wear? You know what I mean? It's so psycho. So, Emily, joy. Joy is is the impetus, and I think you'll find like you'll discover what aspects make you feel joy. Like you said, cotton linen, soft, right? I don't have hard pants, I don't own hard pants. And you're allowed, like all the pants that I have are like stretchy waistbands, you know, and and you're allowed to do that.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I can do whatever I want. I'd remind myself that.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it's hard. It's hard. There's so many rules we've been taught.

SPEAKER_05

Did we, was it you, Paulina, where you and I were talking about the kid maxing video? Yes, we did. The gal did. Yeah, where she it reminded me of something you said earlier, Bamily, for context. It was this video where this lady was like, I'm going into my closet today and I am dressing myself like I would if I was a literal child. And whenever you're a kid, you don't think, does this shirt go with these pants? You just say, These are all of my shirts, and this is the shirt that I love the most. So this is the shirt I'm gonna wear. These are all of my bottoms, these are the bottoms I love the most, these are the bottoms I'm gonna wear. And she ended up, I mean, nothing like conventionally went together, but her outfit was so cute at the end. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's kind of like that concept too.

SPEAKER_03

If you want to want to try that, I think artist way is helpful for this process as well. Because she like famously has this like passage where she was like, I don't know if her this woman's name was Jennifer, but she was like, Jennifer was a lawyer who lived in an architecturally beautiful and austere home. But then she did the artist way and started taking flamenco classes. And then she started buying fluffy pillows and like silk, she draped silk on her austere lamps. And she was like, I don't know if I'm going crazy or going sane, like sort of like, you know, discovering what textures, ideas, feelings, hobbies that actually are what you want to be doing, versus like, I am austere lawyer, corporate lawyer, austere home, you know. Like I do think that each time I do the artist's way, the weirder my my self-expression gets.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. I'm here for all the weird self-expression. I know that I have the potential to get much weirder than I am right now, and I'm very excited for that journey for me.

SPEAKER_03

Cassidy, I see it and I feel it, and I'm so excited for you.

SPEAKER_05

Thank you. Thank you. Like I see it and feel it too, truly. That's why like we're doing the artist way with Paulina later this year. Literally can't not wait. September. Yeah, I've tried to do the artist way twice on my own, and it truly is just like so hard to get through on your own.

SPEAKER_03

It's really hard. It's really hard. I think the accountability of being in community, I think people have reported like I sort of start each session with like roses, thorns, artist dates, highlights, low lights, and what you did for your artist date. Because artist dates are hard. I'm the first person to give up on artist dates as soon as the 12 weeks are over. And literally, like the accountability of like, oh, I need to tell them what I did for my artist date on Sunday is so motivating. It's it's positive shame. It's positive shaming. And so I'm so, so psyched to have you with us. And I don't know, it's it's it's such a it's a weird ni niche to exist in, but I'm so thankful that for whatever reason I have stumbled upon this path.

SPEAKER_04

You remain to do it. And I have had had the artist way sitting on my shelf for probably three years, waiting for the moment. And then I met you and I was like, this is the moment.

SPEAKER_03

It is the moment. I mean, I'm about to write a newsletter called The Someday Shelf about like pro and Kristen is helping, she gave me a whole marketing strategy, and she's we we exchanged. She gave me a marketing strategy for Artist Way, and she will be she gave me the most incredible marketing. I've never done deludably strategy is marketing. But essentially it's you know, the someday shelf is the the discarded half-started projects. The artist way sitting on your shelf is the someday shelf, you know? We all have it, and there's no shame in the game. I mean, at least we have that aspirational shelf, you know? Like, what a gift. I am not deluded into thinking that my life or like sort of the creative path that I have been able to live is not facilitated by my financial privilege. And I think at this point I am at a place where like I can sustain myself, da-da-da-da. Like I'm in the process of finishing a book proposal. And God willing, like my life is just like selling a book every two years, and I have these this large sum I can exist off of, and you know, everything I do on the side kind of keeps me going. That's the goal. But I think what I love about Artist Way is that it's and and and there's a criticism to Artist Way about like the financial privilege. I think the beauty of doing it in the cohort is that we talk about that. And I think most people, I've had people join the artist way and get full-time corporate jobs. I've had people join the artist way and quit corporate jobs. I've had this last cohort, we had someone who was a consultant and she got a job in local city government because that was actually more aligned to what she wanted to be doing. And so I think what's beautiful about the cohorts is that not only is it sort of financially facilitating my own life, right? Like it is a service that I provide as a container and community, but I think it has challenged my idea of what is necessary to sustain a creative practice. And for some people, it's full-time jobs so that they can have the brain space and time to create on their side. For other people, a full-time job sucks the marrow from their bones. And so being shown, I mean, I've it's been over a hundred people at this point. And you can never dictate what feels right for each person. And that the beauty of this path is that you get to determine what's right for you. And I love witnessing that. And also, too, it's allowed me to sort of become more transparent about the fact that, you know, I could move to Chicago and do Second City without a single thought because my parents paid for the flight, they paid for the moving fees, my grandmother paid for the, you know, it's like even when I wasn't thinking about how I was able to sustain my life, I can look back on it now and be like, yeah, of course I could do that. You know, like my whole life has been financed. But as an adult now, I think one of the most liberating things is that what you do for money isn't going to dictate whether or not you're an artist, and that it's our job to decipher for each and every one of us what makes sense based on our own sense of self and path.

SPEAKER_04

Not to end on a, I don't want to put you into a tailspin, but let's go.

SPEAKER_03

If your safety net disappeared tomorrow, what would change first? I would get a full-time job, I think. I would, I would do my best to get a full-time job. I think for me, having the structure would help facilitate things outside of my life. It would be an adjustment, absolutely. Holy shit, it would be an adjustment. But I I've always said that if I wasn't in the financial situation that I was in, the idea of a full-time job, like corporate full-time, is what I would do. Because I do think I'm someone who's always had an expansive extracurricular life. And so the idea, and but that's the other thing too, is like, do those jobs even really exist anymore? By the time that happens, or if that happened tomorrow, like it's not a simple process. I think too, I would probably get a little bit more serious about like um my uh Substack strategy. Yeah. And because I do have paid subscribers for Newly Sober. And at one point I was writing in a weekly newsletter, so I know I'm capable of it. And I probably would strategize sobriety writing a little bit more deliberately. Like I have all the infrastructure to like actually try to push. Forth my services, but I think part of what keeps me from doing it is I don't have to push hard yet. And the idea, I think in my mind, best case scenario is I sell this book. It's a national and bestseller. I get to get two little ponies tattooed on my chest to symbolize my success. And people like it's almost like word of mouth or like self-selecting people finding. But I think, yeah, I think literally my strategy would be like for corporate jobs, be strategic about the things that I already have in place. Like I would just try harder.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. And also like it's such a human thing to like not try hard when you don't have to, or to not try hard until you absolutely have to. I found that to be true in my life so many times. You know, it's like why rock bottom twice in order to make change.

SPEAKER_03

You know, vomiting eight times in one day or having a panic attack in the Alabama gas station with your ex-fiance and weed withdrawal. You know, it's like I love extremes. Give me an extreme circumstances and I will survive. Um, sorry, that's a lot to put in at the tail end of like a really nice episode, but I have I have I've worked through a lot of maladaptive coping mechanisms and I'm like kind of getting fired up. I'm like, let it disappear. Let's see what let's what can I build from nothing, bitch? You know, like I know let's go, you know.

SPEAKER_05

So yeah, yeah. Well, you have enough like proof of experience to be like, I would be fine. Do I want that situation to come true? Absolutely not. And also, like, I trust that I would do whatever I need to do to this take care of myself.

SPEAKER_03

Totally. I think um having had such a hyper-scheduled childhood, genuinely height of my figure skating career I was getting up at six, going to the rank before school. I was in advanced dance during school, I was in cheer after school. I had five or six hours of homework every night. I can be that person, but I do feel like in adulthood, I'm now having the childhood I wish I had, which, you know, is only I'm I'm gonna have children soon enough. You know what I mean? And so I am in this period of, you know, creative expansion in that like my writing practice does inform a lot of my life. But again, like I can work harder. I can. And if I have to, I will. But probably till after my honeymoon, I'm like, like, come August, talk to me again, you know? No. So you didn't send me any toil spin. If anything, I'm like fired up. I'm like, yeah, this alternate reality that doesn't exist. Let's go, let's get that job. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. Also, you're such a like reflective and introspective person. Uh, you know, you're constantly evaluating like what do I truly want versus what I'm being told that I want, that I'm so excited to bear witness to, even from a very far distance, like you becoming a parent and seeing all the ways in which like you just get to do things differently in a way that feels more aligned for you. And then also Tracy with like all of these new ideologies, you know, that like very much align with you, but just like you both doing it together. That's gonna be like such a cool thing to get to experience.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I there's so many global national factors that feel so hopeless and terrifying, and it feels really liberating to live a life in which I feel so excited for the future. Having been engaged to the wrong person is the most valuable life experience I've ever had because I'm so excited to marry Tracy. Like, so excited. And that's how you should feel about the choices in your life. And I have a lot of life experience of feeling the opposite. So what I'm we are both very excited about is making a baby. We are like chomping at the bit to become parents. So I I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I think um the sweating behind my knees stopped, which is a nice thing. Um, but I really I thank you for creating this container. And I mean, I think I love I love your podcast, and I've I just am thankful for the work that you do. And it's helping me think about my finances. And the other thing about the the fund that I didn't even mention is that my whole life my dad was like, do not touch it. Do not touch it, let it grow, do not touch it. And you guys are helping me decipher what what is necessary for my survival and what is coming from fear. And I'm just so thankful for the work that you do, and I I'm thankful to be any part of it. And I'm just, I am such a fan of the finance girlies, and I am I'm a finance girly. So you are. You are well, I would love to invite your listeners to join our Artist Way cohort in September. I am currently writing on both my newsletters. I have Newly Sober and Process Over Product, but it's spelled Process like a slash product. And that's sort of where I'm doing my marketing right now. So if you want to sort of get a gist of the topics that we're gonna be covering in the fall, those newsletters are, you know, happening. I'm doing like two a month. So I promise not to bombard you. My writing coaching and current course offerings are at PaulinaPinski.com. If you are interested in doing the artistway, I really suggest going to my website, going to the artistway page, and joining the wait list because you will be the first to be notified when that course is open for enrollment. And you can find me on socials on Instagram. I am Paulina underscore Pinski. On TikTok, I'm Paulina Please. If you're a friend of the finance girlies, you're a friend of me as well.

SPEAKER_05

And we will also link your dopamine dressing Instagram handle as well.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you.

SPEAKER_05

For some outfit and stuff.

SPEAKER_03

That is my non-strategic most fun social media.

SPEAKER_06

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03

Where it's like Tracy will take a picture of my outfit and then it's slow effort, high impact. I think. Yeah. I think so. Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_05

Absolutely. We love you. We're obsessed with you. You're amazing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I love you guys too, and I'm equally obsessed.

SPEAKER_04

That's a wrap on another episode of the Finance Girlies podcast. Nothing in this episode is meant to be taken as financial advice.

SPEAKER_05

Please do your own research and talk to a professional if you need advice. If you like this episode, consider leaving a review. Better yet, send the show to a friend who might enjoy it too. Love ya. Bye. Nailed it.