Does money buy happiness? Let's talk about it (re-release) / 79

✨💎 RE-RELEASE OF A FORMERLY INSIDERS-ONLY EPISODE 💎✨

This episode was previously available exclusively to our paid subscribers and is now being released to all listeners. We’re excited to share it with all the girlies out there!

“Money isn’t everything.” It’s advice many of us grew up hearing—from family members, TV shows, even Hallmark movies. But if you’ve ever lived paycheck to paycheck, carried debt, or panicked about an unexpected expense, you know it’s not the full story.

In this episode, we unpack what this phrase really means, where it comes from, and why it can sometimes hold you back. We also share personal stories from our early careers, what research says about money and happiness, and how to figure out your own “enough” number.

✨ Episode Highlights ✨

• [00:00] Cassidy’s recent conversation that sparked this episode
• [01:45] Why Hallmark movies reinforce the “money vs. happiness” myth
• [03:30] Our first low-paying jobs out of college
• [05:00] Where the phrase “money isn’t everything” comes from
• [09:30] Where this phrase becomes unhelpful
• [11:45] Case study: America's Sweethearts
• [13:30] Case study: Maid
• [14:30] What it's like to live on $25k vs. $25 million
• [16:30] Cassidy's anchor point: how where she grew up affected her perceptions of money
• [22:30] What is money, actually? Money as security vs. money as status
• [27:45] Real stories: taking pay cuts for happiness (and regrets)
• [31:00] Our personal experiences earning more through freelancing
• [32:30] How to find your “enough” number

✨ Resources ✨

• Wharton study on money and happiness
• Johnny Harris video: $25,000 vs. $25,000,000
• Maid by Stephanie Land (book + Netflix series)

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

People say money isn't everything, but if you've ever had debt, lived paycheck to paycheck, or panicked about an emergency expense, you know that's not the whole story. Let's talk about it. Welcome to the Finance Girlies, a podcast for millennial and Gen Z women who are curious about money but have never quite felt at home in traditional finance spaces.

SPEAKER_04 0:22

We are Emily Backdorf and Cassidy Horton, podcast hosts, longtime friends, and finance writers for brands like AOL and Yahoo Finance.

SPEAKER_03 0:30

Rather than giving you prescriptive advice, we talk about money the way friends actually do. With stories, questions, and a lot of figuring it out in real time.

SPEAKER_04 0:38

My dad said something the other day that really stuck with me. So, for some context, my younger sister might have the opportunity to take a better paying job in the future. And my dad was telling me this, and he was immediately like, but I just keep telling her, you know, money isn't everything. Like she already has a good job and like she should be grateful for it because it's a good job. And it kind of rubbed me the wrong way. And my immediate response was, she can have both. Like she can have a better paying job and really enjoy it, even more than the job she has now. And as I was reflecting on this conversation, one story that really stuck out with me is just like all of the Hallmark movies that I watched growing up as a child because I feel like they embody in an extreme way this belief that people have about money not being everything. So a lot of the Hallmark movies kind of follow the same blueprint where it may start out with like this really rich guy who lives in New York City and he makes a lot of money, but he's grumpy and he's mean and he's miserable. And then flip to that, and there's like this really charming country guy, and he doesn't make a lot of money, but look at how happy he is, and look at how good life could be with him. And even though we can laugh at those things, I feel like they reinforce this belief that money isn't everything, and that a high paying salary automatically leads to you being mean or a jerk or grumpy. And I just want us to talk about the fact that those two things aren't mutually exclusive and that you can have both.

SPEAKER_03 2:22

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love this topic, and I think it's especially um applicable to you and me, or like maybe you and I have wrestled with it a lot because both of our first jobs out of college were extremely low-paying. I know both of us kind of thought we were doomed to be low earners for the entirety of our careers, because at least for me, subconsciously, I had kind of this perspective that I didn't need a lot of money. Essentially, what what you were talking about, like more money wouldn't make my life better. And I was like pretty okay with that for the first couple years.

SPEAKER_04 3:00

Yeah, I agree with that. First job out of college, I was making $32,000 a year. And I remember feeling confused and conflicted because before I started this job when I was still in college, I kept thinking, this is a really great salary. Like, this is about how much my mom earned, for example, and she worked three jobs to earn this much money to like raise me and my brother. And I just kept thinking, this is gonna be great. Like I'm gonna have a nine to five or an eight to five job where I make this much money and I get to clock out of the end out of the end of the day, and it's gonna be really great. And then I remember feeling confused because it felt like so little money once I was actually earning it. And I was like, but I should be grateful for what I have. Like I should, I should be okay with this. And it did take me working through a lot of mind muck to be like, no, actually, it's okay to want to earn more than this because you need money. Like, if if the money that you are earning every month barely keeps the lights on and a roof over your head, then how are you supposed to have enough money to build up an emergency fund for when emergencies inevitably hit or to feel like you can take a vacation, which you deserve, whether it's, you know, a weekend getaway a few towns over or something more extravagant. And yeah, it's can just be conflicting.

SPEAKER_03 4:25

Yes. I think we both have such mixed feelings about this phrase, money isn't everything. It's like objectively, it's true, money isn't everything, but it does touch everything. And it's clear that having more money can make you happier, can give you more security, can give you options and freedom. And I think we both agree that pretending money doesn't do those things can actually hold you back. Oh, for sure. For sure.

SPEAKER_04 4:51

I have found in my limited life experience that when people throw around this phrase, they're kind of living in one of two worlds. So either A, they have a ton of money and they don't realize the privileges that it affords them. So they're like, money isn't everything. And you're like, well, it's easy for you to say that. You have inter-XYZ, you're handed this, I don't know, your parents give you this much money every year, or you have a million dollar net worth or whatever. Right. Or B, they're really struggling to get by financially and they're stuck in this lower paying job, and they either don't want to admit or have convinced themselves that money isn't everything. Like what they have now is good enough. So be grateful. Kind of like what our experiences were in the beginning.

SPEAKER_03 5:41

It's almost like resigning to the fact like this is how it will be. So I better get used to it.

SPEAKER_04 5:47

Yeah, for sure. And I think that kind of stems from a place of fear, probably stems from a lot of other emotions, but that's the one thing that comes up for me because I hear there's this phrase that I've heard so many times and it's really stuck with me. It's that people prefer a comfortable hell to an uncomfortable heaven, or like you prefer a familiar hell to an unfamiliar heaven. And so if you're stuck in this lower-paying job and you're kind of struggling financially, it is familiar. And even though you might want more for yourself deep, deep down, you're also like, well, I don't know what awaits me on the other on the other side if I try to do something else. So let me just stay here where it's comfortable.

SPEAKER_03 6:28

Yeah. I think inertia is just like a really strong force when it comes to your career and your life and like what you imagine for yourself. I think there's one more place I see it come from, which can be from like a good or healthy place. And that is the idea that making more money to buy things that you don't need, to impress people you don't like, I think as the quote goes, is just like not, I don't know, something that you necessarily should be pursuing. And in that vein, like so much of life's meaning comes from experiences and relationships, not things like a big house or fancy car or luxury vacations. So I do think it can come from a good place, you know, kind of anti-consumerism point of view. However, I would also argue that having money does afford you the ability to invest in experiences or in relationships and safety and all those things that also do matter a lot.

SPEAKER_04 7:25

Yeah, I also don't know about you, but even as I reflect on my own experience, when I was 21 years old, 22 years old, fresh out of undergrad, um, had a lot of student loan debt, no savings whatsoever, and a very low-paying, like in college I earned minimum wage. So $7.25. I think at one point in undergrad I earned $10 an hour, and I was like, whoa, we're making it. The amount of stress that I felt over literally anything not going to plan, you know, any little teeny tiny unexpected expense that popped up, I felt like wrecked me financially because I did not have any extra wiggle room in my financial situation to cover that thing and go on as business as usual. And so the amount of stress that I felt during those times is insurmountable compared to like maybe that's not the right the right way to say that. Anyway, when I think back on how much stress I felt then and how I do not have those financial stresses 10 years out because I do have all of these little safety nets, like an emergency fund and a job that I know covers all of my bills and then still leaves me money left over to save for retirement, to save for vacations, to do all of these things. Um that in a lot of ways, that affords me a lot of happiness. You know, just not having those stresses. And so Yeah, I think that's another big part of it too.

SPEAKER_03 8:57

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 8:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:58

So let's dig into like where this phrase becomes really unhelpful because I think there are several circumstances. Do you want to start? Yes, yes, yes. Thank you, Emily.

SPEAKER_04 9:08

Yeah, I feel like where this starts to fall apart, like the thought process of money isn't everything does two major things. And once again, I'm speaking from personal experience. One, it prevents you from wanting to strive for more because you're like, whatever my income is now, money isn't everything. I shouldn't want more than this. And then two, I think it makes you feel guilty for not being content with what you have. So on one hand, you kind of don't want to strive for more. You you feel guilty if you do want to strive for more. And so it just kind of keeps you stuck. What about for you?

SPEAKER_03 9:43

Yeah, I think of how people can kind of weaponize this phrase as like an excuse for certain industries or companies to pay their employees really poorly. So, like, I know a lot of teachers and I've worked in education in the past, and like maybe you've heard, you know, people refer to teachers as superheroes and like, you know, rock stars, and they're amazing. And they are, but no, but they're not those words are not backed up by the amount of money they're earning. And people say, oh, they do it, you know, because they care. And yeah, they I'm they do, but that doesn't mean they don't deserve to be. Pay care does not pay the bills, you know, passion doesn't pay the bills.

SPEAKER_04 10:26

Yeah, and that goes back to that mutually exclusive thing. It's like you don't have to be doing the Lord's work, so to speak. Like this really selfless work in exchange for low pay. Like, why can't you do this really selfless work and also earn a good enough living to feel financially secure? And along those same lines, you also see this play out with almost anyone in like the creative industry, whether you're an artist, even in our freelance work, right? It's like, but do it for the exposure, you know, like we're not gonna pay you, but you're gonna get a lot of exposure. But it's like at the end of the day, exposure isn't gonna keep a roof over my head and put food in my mouth, you know.

SPEAKER_03 11:11

Yeah, that's a good point.

SPEAKER_04 11:13

You need to get paid.

SPEAKER_03 11:14

Yes, you do need to get paid. While we're talking about this, I wanted to share a clip from America's Sweethearts, the Netflix documentary about the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders. And if you haven't watched the show, I highly recommend it. It's fascinating, it's fun to watch. But there's some really interesting dialogue about compensation in both seasons one and two. This clip quotes Charlotte Jones, who is the executive vice president and chief brand officer of the Dallas Cowboys. And as you'll see in the show, she's really involved with the cheerleaders because they are such a like a big piece of the Dallas Cowboys brand. So, for a little bit of background, in very recent times, cheerleaders made around $22,000. Um, and as the show kind of points out, like most of these women have at least one or two additional jobs in order to make ends meet. Yet they are bringing in so much money for this organization. So I will share this clip.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

Six years, they were paid next to nothing, provided no health insurance, but generating billions of dollars in profit for the Cowboys organization.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

They're not paid a lot. But the facts are that they actually don't come here for the money, they come here for something that's actually bigger than that to them. It is a capitalism added.

SPEAKER_03 12:44

And to this, when I like watched this part of the show, I I responded, do you think I probably asked my husband, do you think that young men dream of being football players for the money? No, I don't think so, but they're earning, you know, millions, millions of dollars. So it's just yeah. Anyway, a last major pitfall that this phrase brings to mind for me is that you know, saying money isn't everything kind of invalidates the experiences of people who have so little money, like or are struggling. And are you familiar with the book Maid? I've heard of it, but I have not read it. Okay. It's also um a Netflix series, but essentially it it is the story, it's a memoir of this woman who works as maid, just is like constantly, you know, drawing the short straw in life, has this daughter that she's trying to raise, and it just like highlights, you know, the difficulties and the lack of support that low-income people face in this country. Anyway, she's like, you know, I I think that book and that show just kind of illustrate that. Or the this phrase just kind of invalidates like that whole experience of being poor. Like, money isn't everything, but if if this woman had a little bit more money, her life would be dramatically better. Yeah. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 14:04

Yeah, totally. Okay, this reminds me of two things. The first thing is there is a YouTube video by Johnny Harris, and he is like a YouTube journalist. His videos are packed by so much research, they're so well thought out. Like everything that that Johnny and his team does is truly incredible. But the video covers what it's like to live on $25,000 all the way up to $25 million, and it's backed by like Bureau of Labor statistic data. So for the person who makes $25,000 a year, he's walking you through this is how much they make after taxes, this is how much they're spending on groceries, this is how much they're spending on rent, this is how much, like this is a type of car that they have to drive because of their income, this is what they're typically getting at the grocery store. It walks you through all of that. And if you want this whole concept really conceptualized and you want to feel like you see tangible proof of what it's like to have a salary this low, we will link to this video in the show notes so you can watch it. But just for reference, the video talks about how 29% of Americans earn $25,000 or less per year. And you see in the video, even just going from $25,000 to I think, is it $40,000 the next income bracket that he covers, your life dramatically shifts even by making $25,000 to $40k. Um, so anyway, it is a very, very good video. That's the first thing it reminds me of. I think similar to made, if you want to be able to really understand what it's like to earn incomes in these brackets, these resources will help you do it. Um, but then the second thing is it's reminding me of the town that I grew up in. If you have heard me try to describe my town to you, I usually say something along the lines of I grew up in a really small, like rural town in South Georgia. Whole county has a population just shy of 3,000 people, that the town itself has a population just over a thousand. And growing up, I I knew then and I know even more now that it was just a low-income area. Like almost everyone at my school qualified for free lunch. You could just tell there there was not really any money being poured back into this community in any capacity. It just felt kind of poor. So I was I got curious a few weeks ago, and I was like, I want some data to back this up. Like I want to see if there is any research out there on what the median income is in the area that I grew up in. Is there any numbers to back up what I kind of visualized and witnessed as a child? And so, for reference, as of 2023 census data, the median household income in the United States is $80,600, roughly. So about $80,000 is the median income. For the town that I grew up in in Georgia, 2023 census data states that the median household income is $28,000. So that is like what, over $50,000 on average. And this is both validating and very, very sad for me, just to know that there is an entire population of people in the community that I grew up in, but also in similar communities all across the US, all across the world, where people just have a lack of resources that they need to be able to live, like to cover their basic needs. People are grinding, like truly grinding for so little. And it just reminds me of what you said. Like these people are truly like trying their best. And I feel like when you then throw around phrases like, well, money isn't everything. Sure, you only make $28,000. Sure, you make $28,000 a year, but money isn't everything. It invalidates the very, very real struggles that these people are experiencing on a daily basis.

SPEAKER_03 18:15

Yeah, that's that's a crazy statistic. And it also brings up another thing we talk about often, which is anchor points, and how if your anchor point is $28,000 a year, is like the typical salary, then to your dad, like maybe your sister is already earning more than that, and like she's good. Why would she want more? Why would she need more?

SPEAKER_04 18:40

Yeah, yeah. I think that's exactly what's happening. It once again, it's like even if you are earning, in in my case, for example, $32,000 with I think that's the part my brain kept going back to right after I graduated. I was like, I am earning this much money with one job, like one 40-hour per week job. That feels like a luxury in and of itself. And I think it's because I grew up in this area where people were hustling. Like my sister is making more than the median, but she works any piece of overtime she can get. Like 50, 60 hours, like truly putting in the time. If your anchor point is $28,000, even if you're making $35,000, you know, to most people, they would be able to look at you and be like, yeah, that still might not be enough to live your best life, you know, whatever best life means to you. But if you're like, well, I'm making $7,000 more than the median person in my community, you're like, I should be, like that presents a conflict a conflicting point of view where you're like, I should be grateful because I am earning more than X, Y, Z population, yet I still feel this way. Um, so yeah, it just adds to the turmoil.

SPEAKER_02 19:53

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 19:54

Totally. Okay, so let's get a little philosophical and practical and talk about what is money actually. So I think it's interesting to think about money as like security versus money as status. And I think, in my opinion, if you think of money as security or if you think of money as choices or freedom, money is a lot. Um, it can help you take care of yourself and your loved ones. It can help you cover emergencies, give you a place to live, save for retirement, buy a reliable car, all of those things. But if you think of money as status, that's where I feel like money isn't everything, does kind of ring true. You know, more stuff doesn't make you happier. Yeah, I'm like over here.

SPEAKER_04 20:41

Snap, snap, snap. I 100% agree with you. And I think this is a way that I need to think about money more often. It's like our or or this is a way that I need to be curious about how other people view their money. It's like, whenever you say this thing, is it because you're viewing money as status or you're viewing money as security? Because I do think, once again, from my limited life experience, the people that I've encountered who say this are thinking of money as status, and they're like, status isn't everything. That is what it boils down to. Status isn't everything, but security is everything. And when you think about money in that context, money as security, money as everything.

SPEAKER_03 21:24

Mm-hmm. Yeah, and there's also the difference between enough and just like constantly pursuing more. Whether you think of money as security or status, I think people can have a tendency, you know, if you have a scarcity mindset, you might have the tendency to just keep pursuing more and more and more versus knowing when you have enough. So I I kind of think, you know, if you are consistently pursuing more, you never get the chance to like enjoy your money or use it for what it's intended for. But if you can focus on, you know, your enough point having enough, you can balance earning money and growing your wealth with having meaning in your life and like spending to give your life meaning. So I don't know. That's another interesting way to think about it.

SPEAKER_04 22:16

Yeah, there's also the Wharton study. So pretty much the question has been posed forever: does money buy happiness? And so Wharton did research and found that money tends to make people happier until their income reaches about $100,000. And then it starts to plateau slightly after that. Meaning, you know, if you make $100,000 versus $150,000, you might have marginally the same amount of happiness, but up until that $100,000 point, your happiness level like substantially increases because you have more money to do things like buy a reliable vehicle, choose better groceries at the grocery store, maybe more produce or what have you, um, than if you are someone who's making like less than $25,000, for example.

SPEAKER_03 23:08

And I've heard this stud or I've heard similar studies. I don't know if it was the same one, but quoted quite a bit in happiness books and podcasts and things kind of on that topic, with the benchmark of like 70,000 or 72,000 around there. And that's still like I think widely circulating, but this number that you pulled, the 100k, is more recent, much more recent. It's from what, 2023?

SPEAKER_04 23:34

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I also I'm curious to know if you reflect on yourself, do you think that number is accurate? Like if you were making a hundred thousand dollars, anything more than that would just be like marginally better, or do you think the threshold for yourself would be higher?

SPEAKER_03 23:50

Well, my first question is is this household or individual? I don't know. Did we figure that out? Let's see.

SPEAKER_04 23:57

Just seeing the praise annual income.

SPEAKER_03 23:59

Yeah, it seems like it's one person. So in that case, maybe it is very accurate. Maybe. So I'll answer your question. I don't know. Uh yeah, I don't know. Um of course when I like think about you know, that game, like if I had a million dollars, what would I do? There are so many things I could think of doing, both for myself and my loved ones, but also, you know, for other people. So I don't know, but I trust the research, I guess. Yeah. Do you have any thoughts about it?

SPEAKER_04 24:35

Um, I guess my initial thought is if I am a one-person household, as I am now, and it was like a hundred K or bust, I feel like I would want a little bit more money. Similar to you, I I think maybe my th threshold where it would start to plateau would probably be closer to 150. And I feel like that's because I do want extra money to back into the things that I care about. And I feel like if I own if I earned 100k, that would be just me being able to take care of myself, you know, and I want to do more than just take care of me. And so I think my happiness would continue to level up, maybe around like the 150 mark. And then after that, it would probably start to plateau. But if I was like a two-person household, for example, and we both earned 100k, yeah, maybe it would be a little different. But those are those are my initial thoughts when I see the research. I'm like, personally, a little bit more would be nice.

SPEAKER_03 25:42

I also think it's probably so dependent on life stage. Like, I think back to my early 20s when I was making very little money and it was such a great time. Like, I was so happy, but I also had so few obligations financially that I didn't I really I truly did not need much money to live the life that I wanted. Even though I was making so little, like it felt like enough in many ways. And like now, both my husband and I earn significantly more than when we were early 20s. And I wouldn't say like we're happier now than we were then. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. In some ways we are. Like in some ways it we definitely, you know, we feel more secure for sure.

SPEAKER_04 26:29

What you're saying reminds me of a book, and I do not remember the name of it, but he talks about how your problems never go away. Like there is not a single person in this world who exists who does not have a problem of some sort. It's just that your problems change. So the problems you have when you are struggling financially, have a low income, what have you, those problems feel so real and tangible to you then, and they are so real then. And then if you ever get to a later stage in life where you feel financially secure, you can acknowledge that you don't feel those same problems anymore and you're happy about that, but you still have problems now. You just have different financial struggles than you're dealing with now. And so they're just they're just different.

SPEAKER_03 27:19

Yeah, that's a good point. Okay, so I thought it'd be fun to share some stories both from our own lives and from other people's lives. So I kind of scoured some Facebook groups and Reddit threads to do that. So what do you think? Do you want to go through a few of these? Yeah, yeah. Let's do it. First, someone who took a pay cut and loved it. Struggling with a career move. I've been in my current position for three years now, but the workplace is toxic and I've been trying to get into a different agency. I was offered a position at a different agency, but I'm looking at a 4K a year pay cut. Is it silly to be concerned about such a small pay cut in hopes I would be in a better in a better environment? And uh this post had a ton of comments, and essentially all of them boil down to this one that I'm gonna read. For what it's worth, your mental health and well-being are priceless. I was in a similar position as you, took a pay cut, and was so much happier in my new position. You'd be amazed at how easily you can adjust to the lower pay. Make the change, you won't regret it.

SPEAKER_04 28:17

I like that. Okay. Um, here's another one. It's a more extreme example of someone who took an even bigger pay cut than 4K and still thought it paid off for them. So this person said, I took a 65% pay cut when I quit my executive position to open my own business. No lie, it's tough. You have to budget and be realistic. I downsized my living space, I'm overdue on getting a better car. Health insurance is tough, but in the end, it was the right decision for me.

SPEAKER_03 28:43

That's interesting because I like that this person admitted the very real struggles that come with the pay cut. Like maybe sounds like they're still making enough to get by and like be comfortable, but it's it's much harder. There's also the idea of like following your passion and at what cost, like what cost do you have to pay to do that? So I found this really interesting thread. Someone said, Money's important, probably the most important thing to survive. I see this debate all the time. We work to make money, but can we work in a job for long if it keeps making us a shell of who we are? When you wake up, do you think of what if I pursue that? I'm having the late 20s crisis right now. I just have one life. I cannot do everything I want, but am I never gonna try? I wonder if there's anyone out there who chose passion over money and is happy for it. And interestingly, this person replied saying, I'm having the same crisis in reverse and wish I'd gone the money route. The thing with passions is they change and grow. And when you have to make a livelihood from it, it diminishes very quickly. I could see that. Yeah, lots of thoughts going on here in terms of, you know, money and work and is money everything. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 29:51

I feel like I'm experiencing a little bit of that now, and maybe I always have, where you wake up and you're like, it would be so nice to pursue this other thing, but it's not something that necessarily makes you money or would at least not make you money right now. So you're like, well, I've got to prioritize the work that does make me money. And so you just keep kicking that thing further down the road. And a lot of times I do think, what if I just didn't have to work as much? So I could really focus on XYZ just because it sounds fun.

SPEAKER_03 30:18

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Totally. Yeah, and I think I can, and both of us I think can speak to the possibility of higher paying jobs actually reducing your stress. Obviously, there are high-paying jobs that are totally cutthroat and just like work you to the bone and probably aren't worth it. But I think you and I have found careers that allow us to both earn more and yeah, live like a more stress-free life. Not a stress-free life, but a a less stressed life.

SPEAKER_04 30:49

Yeah, for sure. I I was truly one of those like college kids that thought I'll probably earn a low income out of college. It'll be enough, though. That's the part that's part one that I got wrong. I was like, it'll, it'll feel like enough, it'll be fine. Maybe by the time I retire, I will be making a hundred thousand dollars a year. That was the the narrative that played in loop on my head a lot of times. And when I started freelancing, it really only took about two and a half years of freelancing for me to be making like around that hundred K mark. And I will say the like my financial stress reduced significantly as my freelance income increased to that mark because I suddenly, because I'd still kept my living expenses fairly low, I just suddenly had this this extra money that I could use to max out my retirement accounts, fully fund an emergency fund, build out a travel fund so I can go on vacations, like fly back to see my family. Mm-hmm. And yeah, that in a lot of ways made me happier, at least in the financial sense.

SPEAKER_03 31:59

Totally. Yeah. Okay, let's wrap up by talking about how you can strike the balance between living out your potential versus knowing when you have enough. So on a basic level, making enough money to meet your needs is crucial. And in my opinion, I think this goes beyond food and shelter and clothing because you also need to save for retirement. And if you have kids, they need daycare and medical care, all of that stuff that isn't, you know, guaranteed by the government. So I also think you need money for fun, or else life can be kind of sad.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 32:33

Along those same lines, I don't think that the goal is necessarily to like hoard millions or hoard billions or whatever, but rather it's to earn enough money to be able to support the life you want to live. Even if for you you're like, I want to be a generous person, whether you're generous with your love, your time, or your money, I would still argue that you need money to be able to be generous with any of those things independently of each other. You know, if you're going to not work as much so you can devote more time to your loved ones or your community or activism or whatever, like you need a safety net there to carry you on so you're able to do those things. Or if your goal is, you know, you want to travel the world or buy a cabin in the woods, like what whatever it is, my hope is that you have enough money to do that thing, essentially. And so for me, that that's kind of the framework around how I decide if I have enough or not. It's like looking at my numbers, but also being like, what does a to quote Ramit say to you, like, what is a rich life look for me? And that doesn't mean outwardly rich, rich is status. That's just what makes my life feel very rich and worth living. And do I have enough money to allow myself to do that?

SPEAKER_03 33:55

Yeah, one of my favorite things that he says is it's a tragedy to live a smaller life than you need to. And by that I think he means or my interpretation of that, you get one life to live out your dreams. Yeah. So that's really beautiful. I know. So maybe a more accurate message is money isn't everything, but it touches everything.

SPEAKER_04 34:15

I completely agree. Yeah. And I think for anyone who is listening to this episode and you want to take an action step here, I think figuring out your own enough number is kind of the first step here. How much do you need to earn to pay your bills, say for retirement and other goals, and also have enough money for fun or for that rich life, you know, whatever that means for you. And you can also have a dream number for times when you're energized and you're able to earn more, but you know that you can always fall back on your enough number if you need or want more time for pursuits outside of work.

SPEAKER_03 34:49

To close this out, Cassidy, I want to ask you what you would say to your sister in the situation of, you know, having the potential to earn a little more money.

SPEAKER_04 35:00

Okay, because this is paywalled, I will tell you some of what I actually told her. I think pretty much what I said at the beginning of this episode is these two things are not mutually exclusive. Like you deserve to earn enough money to live a life that you love and to be able to do things like move into an apartment that you want and to pay off your debt and to be able to travel more and like pour back into the lives of people around you that you like really love and want to financially support for a lot of people, myself included, like we all have goals or dreams of financially supporting a loved one in some way, right? And so take the higher paying job. If it comes along, you might just love it and enjoy it. And if you don't, you can always pivot. You know, you're not stuck in that job forever just because you say yes to it, but you also might really love it. And also, if you are in a situation where you're starting to earn more money, you're about to have the opportunity to earn more money, and someone in your life is saying, Money isn't everything. Like, just do you really want to take that job? Money isn't everything. I would just say to you that I wish that person would just be supportive of you endlessly and just be in your corner and not project their fear or opinions onto you.

SPEAKER_03 36:26

I think that's great advice. And we'll end there. See you next week, girlies. That's a wrap on another episode of the Finance Girlies podcast. Nothing in this episode is meant to be taken as financial advice.

SPEAKER_04 36:40

Please do your own research and talk to a professional if you need advice. If you like this episode, consider leaving a review. Better yet, send the show to a friend who might enjoy it too. Love ya. Bye. Nailed it.