How emotions affect your money decisions with Simone Griffin Taylor / 81

Have you ever felt guilty for spending money on something you love, but thought nothing of spending money on something you felt like you should do?

Or found yourself thinking, "I'm just bad with money"?

In this episode, we're joined by financial wellness coach Simone Griffin-Taylor for a conversation about the emotional side of personal finance. We explore why money decisions are rarely as logical as we think, how shame and self-judgment can show up in our financial lives, and why understanding your values may be more important than following someone else's money rules.

From homebuying and travel to dining out and even buying Kleenex, this episode is full of real-life examples that will help you get curious about your spending habits, challenge old money stories, and make financial decisions that feel more aligned with the life you actually want to live.

✨ Episode Highlights ✨

• [03:00] Why emotions influence nearly every financial decision we make
• [05:00] How shame shows up in our money lives—and how to recognize it
• [08:30] The difference between "I made a mistake" and "I am bad with money"
• [12:00] Why self-compassion can be a powerful financial tool
• [17:00] The danger of comparing your financial life to someone else's timeline
• [20:00] Simone's framework for reconnecting with your financial intuition
• [24:00] How to identify your core values and use them to guide money decisions
• [30:00] Why two people can share the same values but spend money very differently
• [35:00] What people judge themselves for financially that is actually completely normal
• [39:00] Cassidy's surprisingly strong opinions about the value of Kleenex and coat hangers
• [43:00] How old money stories continue to influence our spending decisions

✨ Resources ✨

• Connect with Simone: affluencereimagined.com 
• Follow Simone on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/simone-griffin/ 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey girlies, today we're talking to Simone Griffin-Taylor. She's the executive vice president of Home Free USA and a financial wellness coach who helps people stuck with their money reclaim their power. Instead of creating a one-size-fits-all approach to money, she helps people discover how to build wealth in alignment with their natural decision-making style and core values.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

If you're into money mindset or how emotions play into your financial decisions, this is a conversation you don't want to miss. Simone walks us through how to really turn inward and make decisions that you know align with your core values and intuition.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

Rather than giving you prescriptive advice, we talk about money the way friends actually do. With stories, questions, and a lot of figuring it out in real time.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

Simone, thanks so much for being here today. We know that you talk a lot about how emotions show up in our financial lives. And so to kick us off, we wanted to ask: why do you think so many people are taught to treat emotions like the enemy when it comes to money instead of this expected thing that kind of just is for all of us?

SPEAKER_02 1:21

First of all, thank you guys for having me. I really appreciate it. I'm so looking forward to this conversation. The truth is that the way that probably all of Western, but I know American financial society is set up is one based on transactional. It's a transactional nature. It's very masculine versus feminine, and not, I don't mean men versus women or anything like that, but you know, in the masculine, yin versus yang, in the masculine space, masculine is hyper-transactional. It's just, you know, do this and do that. That's what capitalism is also highly based on, is a transactional nature. Emotions tend to come more on the feminine, the yin side. And that is not the foundation of capitalism, quite frankly. It's not the foundation of Western means of generating money. So when we're talking about emotions, adding that in, that just does not align with the mindset of uh money. But yet, the truth is nobody makes financial decisions from a logical perspective. Every decision that is made with our money is based on emotions. So that's why it's so important to acknowledge that our emotions are playing the central role in our financial decisions. And once we realize that and take ownership of it, that's when it gives us the space to say, okay, so now what?

SPEAKER_00 2:41

Our listeners know that my husband and I are looking for our first house right now. And I've talked about this a number of times. But I think it took us getting to the point of realizing, okay, this is gonna be more of like an emotional decision for the life we want than it is maybe gonna be the perfect financial decision for us to be like, okay, we're ready. Like I think we were just waiting for almost like that sense of permission of like it being a great financial decision, even though we, you know, are diligent about our money and we tend to make what I think are pretty logical decisions most of the time. We just kind of had to recognize like this is more emotional and it's gonna be okay to like, you know, be okay with starting that process. So absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 3:25

And and that's so important that you both came into this with the knowledge that, yes, I mean, absolutely, we're we're not abandoning logic in this, uh, in our financial conversations, right? But we have to incorporate and understand where the emotions play in. Because the reality is if you purely think about real estate and a lot of what has been put forth on a real estate level, and I happen to work in housing, so I'm very familiar with this topic too. When you put forth the thought of it's just a good investment, that's not always true. Because sometimes it is better financially, if we're purely speaking on finances, it is better to rent versus buy. And right now we're in a situation where home prices are so high that it may make more sense. But when you look at, all right, what brings us fulfillment? What are we looking to do with our family? Are we moving in 24 months? Or are do we prefer the stability of knowing that this is where we're coming home to and being able to do certain things with our house and all of that? Or do we really like offsource, outsourcing our um decisions related to our home? This is where we get into the emotions of it all, right? And when you start to understand, and and I've had a friend who, when she was buying her house, she was like, I insist on buying in a community because I do not want to do any yard work. So she wanted a house, she did not want a condo, but she really did not want to have to deal with yard work. So for her, she found a townhouse, she was willing to pay the HOA fees. Excellent for her. That would have not that would not have worked for me at all because I don't want to pay HOA fees and be bound to what an HOA tells me I need to do with the outside of my house, with whether I want to rent it out or whatever the case may be. But you see, neither of those answers are wrong. There's no wrong in me saying an HOA doesn't work for me, and no wrong in her saying an HOA is her preference because she doesn't want to do yard work. It's just an understanding of who we are, and it changes our relationship to our financial decision in this case of home ownership, if once we make those decisions from a space of clarity.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

Right, exactly. So one emotion I think that comes up a lot with money is shame, unfortunately. What are some signs that someone is making money decisions from a place of shame?

SPEAKER_02 5:47

This is where we have to kind of do our deeper internal work to understand because the more we understand where we're making it a decision based on shame versus guilt or knowledge of self and trusting of self. When we make that decision from a financial perspective, we're probably making it in other ways as well. So unfortunately, I would love to say there's an easy answer for that, but there's not. This is where we get into really knowing ourselves and doing our deeper work on how we approach our lives, right? And do we approach our lives and our money? But see, the thing is when people go into therapy, for example, or any version of healing work, they often put their money aside from that. They don't see how the money correlates. So when we're approaching life from a space of shame, which is I'm not good enough, you know, somebody told me I need to do something different and I should be doing this. That's a level that that's a that's one indication right there. I should be, that's a big challenge right there. And so if you understand that you're telling yourself what you should be doing, for example, at this stage in life, I should have a house, I should be making X amount of dollars, I should be married, I should have children, I should have all of these different things, and then you feel bad about yourself that you don't. Well, first of all, is that even your story? I mean, you know, that's a really big element. And then how you handle it from there, who who told you? And it was often society, but let's just say, who told you that you are not in the right space and time for your life? So I answered it, but I broadened it by saying that shame is really often based on I hear the way I hear it is I should, but somebody else may hear it in a different way. And as we are doing our healing work, which honestly, I think everybody needs to do some level of healing work, but there's some that need far more healing work than others, right? So I'm not saying that everybody's gotta be in some deep psychological assistance, but we all need, we all have sometimes we're some things that we need to work on. I simply advocate for us to include how we manage our money in those conversations about our healing, because oftentimes we treat it as a separate entity and it is not going back to what we talked about before. It's a highly emotional thing to make decisions, financial decisions based on our emotions, not based on logic.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

I also think to your point, this is why like financial therapy specifically is becoming so popular. I think more and more people are realizing that money is not as transactional and emotionless as you want it to be. It's not as emotionless as a lot of the like traditional financial advice wants you to believe that it is. But along those same lines, I love that you pointed out the difference between feeling guilt and then feeling shame about something. Because I think a lot of times like you can feel guilty about something, and that kind of leads to our next point of like you could tell yourself I made a financial mistake, that probably wasn't the best. Like, let me sit with it, let me see what I can learn from it. Like you can feel guilt about that. And then in my head, I feel like shame is more of the statement of I am bad with money. Like it's you are internalizing it and it's almost paralyzing because like you are believing this thing to be so true about yourself. And so in your experience, how can people kind of separate those where like if something quote unquote bad happens, how do they get to the point where they can separate it from I made a financial mistake versus like I am bad with money?

SPEAKER_02 9:24

That's a critical difference, Cassie. The difference of I did something wrong versus I am wrong. Because if we think that I am wrong, and that is a classic sign of shame, then that is definitely moving in the direction of you're never going to improve versus oops, I made a mistake. I went down the wrong, I went down a wrong way or one-way street than what I shouldn't have, you know, the wrong way or whatever the case may be. And then you turn around and then you just keep going. The more that we can detach ourselves from the things that we do, not taking responsibility, and this is the critical part, right? There's an importance, you have to take responsibility for your actions, but you don't look at it as this means more about who I am as a person than, hey, I made this decision not the smartest move. And now I get to make a different decision. You know, I learned this years ago, not related to money, but then when I started tying it to money, it really helped. You make a choice. It doesn't work. You make a different choice. We move on with our lives. And yes, there will be consequences to every choice that we make, but we also have to be bold enough to say every choice is not going to be the right choice. I learn from every action that I take, every decision that I make, and I move forward. I may have needed to have made that decision, that mistake, in order to get me to the next level. And, you know, you hear so many successful people talking about how important it was for them to have failed because they learn more from their failures. They learn more from the friction than you ever learn from just being in an easy space of growth. So that's why it's so important to separate the I did something bad or wrong or that doesn't really serve me to I was, I am bad or wrong, or I keep messing up and on and on and on. And also, how does the energy of I just keep messing up? How does that help us? How does that move us forward? How does that put us in a better position to say, I will do better tomorrow? Courage, and I read this a code, I think courage is the ability to get up and say, I will try again tomorrow. And so that is an effort that allows us to move forward, but continuing to beat ourselves up over making a bad decision doesn't actually help us move the needle. And so we also have to give it some consideration like that. Like, is this actually help? Okay, yes, I made a bad decision. But is wallowing in the decision actually helping you move forward? Or would it be more helpful to say, ooh, that was dumb?

SPEAKER_01 12:00

Yeah, I think this is a tip that I picked up in therapy years ago. But if you ever find yourself in the situation where you're shoulding on yourself, you know, you're like, I should have. I think to an extent it's okay to acknowledge that. Like, yeah, I should have handled that situation a little bit differently. But I think the second part that actually really helps you is saying, if this happens again, or like next time I would do this. And so you're also priming your brain to where if you find yourself in a similar situation, this is how you would like to ideally handle it or ideally go about it. And that to me feels so much more productive than one being like, I am fundamentally flawed, this thing happened, but even just being like, man, I really should have done that differently. You know, it's like taking the time to think, okay, but like, how could I do it differently next time?

SPEAKER_02 12:47

Absolutely. When you know better, you do better. And also, we have to remember that we are not the only people out here, we are not the first person who made that decision, good, bad, or indifferent. And we're not gonna be the last. This is a part of life to stumble and to fall. And if we give ourselves as much grace as we give other people, and you know, if you think about it, we often do this. If somebody's like, oh my God, I can't believe I was that dumb. I can't believe I made that decision, they'd be like, No, why are you even talking about yourself like that? Hey, it was totally a mistake. It's okay, let's move on. But we do not give ourselves that same level of benefit of the doubt to, and that's a big challenge because we're the ones when when we continue shooting all over ourselves, as you kind of alluded to, it does not give us the space to say, okay, and I will do better. I acknowledge, I take responsibility, I take accountability, and here's how I will learn, here's how I learn, here's how I'll do better.

SPEAKER_01 13:45

Yeah, I 100% relate to the idea that we are our own worst critics. Feel like so many people, including me, I can be so hard on myself and mean to myself. And a lot of times I have to stop and be like, if your close friend came to you and said that they had happened, that this had happened or like they had made this choice, how would you respond to them? And I find myself doing that thought exercise so much just to be nicer to myself. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 14:13

So much of society is you should know better and you should do better. But the reality is we only learn by doing, by the mistakes that we make. It just does not you don't learn as a human being simply by watching others. I mean, that's helpful to an extent, but most times you learn by being out in the arena, on the battlefield, as is it. I know Brene Brown says it now, but I think it was either Winston Churchill or whatever that said you gotta be in the arena doing the work. You know, that's where you really learn when you're bloodied and bruised and battled and all that kind of stuff. You do not learn on the sidelines, looking at somebody else and be like, you should have done this, that that's not the way we grow. That's not the way we evolve. And honestly, if you look at the most successful people in life, and success is relative, I don't, I don't like to terminology um to talk about success as the people who are wealthiest, right? Or just or the big biggest entrepreneurs, because that's only one element of success, and everybody is not built for that. I think of success as one example is a parent who has raised three amazing children, right? And then they continue to contribute to society to other people's kids in in different ways, or the person who is just a giver and just shows up and takes care of the community or whatever. So success looks a variety of different ways. And I'm sorry, I lost where I was going with this, but the point I was I was trying to try to make this correlation that when we look at those successful people, even they have failed at some in some level, in some way, and we can just learn from them, but we also are gonna have to have our own experiences.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

Yeah, I also think specifically so many people, whenever it comes to money, they think that you're either good with it or you're bad with it. And I think this is like a society failing to an extent to make you think that either you have what it takes to be successful with your money, however you define that, or you don't. And I think that leads to a lot of situations where you're in your early 20s, you're in your late teens, like you're on your own for your first time, you're in your 30s, and you are just feeling so much shame about your financial situation because you're like, Have I found myself in this type of environment when really you just haven't practiced the skills, like you haven't sought out the information and applied it enough, or like tweaked it enough or gone through enough iterations or whatever to get better and to have the quote unquote failures so you can be able to handle your money in a way that feels in alignment with you and the type of life that you want to live. And that comes through experimentation. But I feel like so many times people don't know that.

SPEAKER_02 16:52

And I have to say, with people particularly in their 20s, and I dealt with the same thing, we're measuring ourselves against something that is not real or is unfair. So, for example, if you think that you're gonna come out of college and live the same lifestyle that you were raised in by parents who maybe if you were in a two-parent household, they had higher income jobs and you're gonna get at 22, it's just not realistic. So to compare yourself to the life that you grew up in is not fair in any way. And then it's also you're just learning, you're just starting out, you're building a foundation from scratch. And so, how are you expected to just know everything? And again, as we said, you can read all the books, there's nothing wrong with that. But we hit on circumstances, excuse me, you know, circumstances in life. And that's what often happens in in your 20s. When let's just say, for example, I just read an article of how this is not a good time for college graduates, you know, to get jobs. So they're having to navigate, they assumed that, oh, I graduate on May 10th, I'll have a job on May 11th. Well, that did not happen. So now what? Where where do you go? What do you do? This is life because then there are people who are in their 40s who have been working the same job. Again, I live in DC. So I do I'm seeing a lot of people who have been laid off from their government jobs, which they fully expected to retire from. You're in your 40s, you've been working the same job for the last 20 plus years, you fully expected to retire from that job. You've done all the things that they said to do. Whatever they, whoever they are who contributed to your retirement plan, you saved money, you did this, that, and you got into a stable job. And yet, and still you're laid off, not through any performance issues on your part. Nothing that you did wrong, but now you do not have a job. This is life. This is what happens, and yes, it sucks. And I'm not saying that, but I'm not saying that you should have done anything different. This is what happens in life. And so to judge yourself doesn't help move the needle on, okay, now what? To say I should have done this or I should have known better. Maybe, but also maybe you did everything that they said to do, and life continued to happen. So the question is not what happened to you. The question is, what did I learn?

SPEAKER_00 19:10

And now Yeah, I think that's a really good attitude. And it reminds me of Casty and I have a mutual friend, kind of going back to what you were saying about like reframing how we think of making mistakes as like paving the way actually to success. We have a friend who a couple years ago was doing, I think it was something like a 100 rejections challenge or something, where she was pitching editors her creative writing, and she was like, I want to get a hundred rejections because I know every rejection is closer to getting a yes. So just things like that I think are really helpful in reframing.

SPEAKER_02 19:46

Sure. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 19:47

Switching gears a little bit, you have said that people already often intuitively know how they want to approach money, but as we know, there's so many voices out there telling you how to do things. So, how do we reconnect with our intuition when we've spent years feeling like we're doing it wrong?

SPEAKER_02 20:04

Well, one thing I will say is, and again, this takes a lot of deconditioning for ourselves. So it doesn't start with just one thing. But I I will start with this asking ourselves, is this really true? A and B, why do I want this? Like what about it? And if it has something to do with somebody outside of ourselves, or if we just say, because I just want it, that's probably not, you know, something deep. Uh, because the truth is we connect with things, and a lot of times what happens is we compare ourselves to others. We get to a certain space where we're like, well, if they have that, I should be able to have it, right? That's a problem because that's telling me that that's not necessarily something that you desire for yourself. That is something that you feel, again, going back to what we talked about, the shoulds of it all. You feel like this is what you should be doing at this stage of your life. So one, is it really true that this is something that I deeply desire? Number one. Number two, how how did I get to this space? Did I get to this space because I saw it from somebody else and I'm like, they're doing it, so I should be able to do it? Or is it because there's something that deeply resonates with me? The third thing is what am I willing to let go of to have it? Because we can have anything, but we cannot have everything. And so when we start asking ourselves what we're willing to let go of, it does change the dynamic of how important is this thing to me. I'll give you an example for myself. I love traveling. Traveling is a highly important thing to me. It has nothing to do with what I where I tell people I'm going or asking other people to come with me. It is because I have a strong and deep craving to learn about other cultures and embed myself in other environments. That's not something I can do from my living room. I can't, you can watch all the movies, you can read all the books, but it is different when you are in the culture. And so for me, that matters. There is a lot that I have. Let go of as a result of the ability to travel. And there have been times I've said no to travel too, because something bigger has come into play. But because travel is so important to me, I am willing to set aside a certain percentage of my budget every year. I am willing to not get a new car. I am willing to not buy a whole lot of new clothes. There's certain I just made very clear decisions on if travel is so important to me, what am I willing to let go of? If friends don't go, cool. It's not about them. I've taken trips by myself. I'm fine with that. So it's not about what somebody else is talking about. And I've actually not traveled a couple of years and I have hated it with every fiber of my being, having nothing to do with anybody else. So I've tested this theory of is it really true that I love to travel, is the point I'm making. I've tested it many times in many different ways. And I have found that I just do not feel as good in life if I do not travel somewhere. But right now, my husband and I are in a different stage. Like last year, we did a lot of international travel. We loved it. This year, we're not. Like, so I took my first trip in last month, just went to Florida, not doing any international travel. And then we went to South Carolina. So we're because of other circumstances, we're still engaging in our love of travel, but we're doing it on a much smaller scale right now. And again, I spent the whole first part of the year not traveling at all. So even within something that is important to me, I still put restrictions and barriers around it. And every time I always have to ask, where is the priority in what I am doing? And is this even more important? So really asking yourself, is it really true that I genuinely want this based on what? And going deep and what are you willing to let go of in order to have that thing is super, super important to ask yourself.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

Yeah, it sounds like to me that you have, first of all, on something that I think every human being should do and that I love to do, it's just to get really curious about yourself. And if you find that you like something, digging into what specifically am I drawn to about this thing. And it sounds like by you doing that, you have discovered that not only is travel like a core value, but specifically being exposed to like different cultures, different ways of thinking, different ways of living, like that seems to be a value of yours.

SPEAKER_02 24:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

And yeah, so that kind of leads to the next thing of what does it look like for someone to be able to build a financial life specifically around like their actual values versus someone else's expectations. And I I will ask that saying that I think Emily and I have kind of done this to an extent. I think we could continue to do it, but because I feel like once you figure this out, it really is the difference between living a life or aligning your finances to how like the world or society or your parents or whoever tells you you should be living versus like living a life that actually feels like yours.

SPEAKER_02 24:59

It's such a good question. First of all, you have to determine what your core values are. And one of the things I do with all of my clients is I have them go through an exercise where we narrow down their core values to like the top three. And that's really hard to do. But the reason is not because the other values do not exist, but it's because when push comes to shove, and push will come to shove. What is the thing that you have to say? I I've got to prioritize this. So freedom for me is a core value. And that's when I have to ask myself, well, what does freedom look like for me? Because all three of us could have the same value of freedom, but freedom looks totally different for the three of us. So what does freedom look like for me? And this is where I've got to do visualization exercises and other things. And what I'll even do is if if I can't see into the future, I can at least look into the past and think about where did I feel when did I feel the most free? And what was that like? And I can tell you it had nothing to do with money. It really did not. It had a lot to do with the things, and and money played a part, but money was not the reason, right? For the freedom. There were other things that I did in order to create that. So finding determining your core values is so super important. It is the foundation. And then number two is again defining what those core values are for you and what they look like and feel like in your life. And these are feelings. Again, not they're not necessarily descriptions. They could be. It's not, it's more of a feeling of I feel so great when I'm able, like I walk every morning, right? I feel so great being outside, being in the sun, and just walking. It does not matter what the temperature is. The only reason I will not go outside on a temperature level is big if it's icy. That's it. But it can be 20 degrees, it can be five degrees, it can be a hundred degrees. I don't care. I'm going outside because my connection to the sun is so important and it gives me this feeling of I'm I'm able to breathe, you know, really breathe easily when I spend the rest of my day inside working. It's not because I don't love my job, it's nothing like that. But I need that feeling of spaciousness. That doesn't cost any money, but it does give me that feeling of freedom. That it gives me this feeling of I'm, you know, I'm there. So the more we can really see and feel what our core values are, number one, and number two, how those core values show up and what that feels like within us, the more we can guide our money to focus on our core values, not everything else. And see, this is where people often get messed up because they think their core values are something in alignment with what, again, society tells us shit, you know, core values should be, or our family should tell us, or whatever the case may be. And there's nothing wrong with any of those things, but they may not serve us. And I personally believe that this is one reason why we as humans are not as happy as we could be, because we're listening to somebody else's definition of what is going to bring us the most joy. So in my financial coaching work with my clients, we don't, I could care less if you get out of debt. My strategy was to get out of debt because again, I want freedom. So I don't want anybody calling me talking about you owe me such and such. My my freedom was getting out of debt. But that may not be somebody else's. Okay. And that's okay. Emily talked about buying a house. That that's part of mine too, because I don't want somebody knocking on my door and telling me what I can and cannot do in my house. But that may not be somebody else's. And that is okay. And the more we can understand what our core values are, the more we can make decisions and get clear. We have to get super clear. The more we can have those, we, the more we can make decisions from that space. And once we're really confident and comfortable in this, it's not that easy for somebody to talk you out of it, right? Because they'll be like, well, you should do this. Well, one, you don't live. We start to really get connected to that feeling, that that joyful feeling, that fulfilled feeling of like me walking every morning or whatever the case may be, or going out and getting ice cream with a friend and just sitting outside or whatever the case may be, right? It doesn't matter, but we start to get connected to that feeling, that that fulfillment. And then we start to notice the more work we can do on ourselves, the more we notice. Am I feeling that level of fulfillment in going shopping, for example? Like, no, not for me. That's my choice. It's my choice not to do that because I found that there is no fulfillment in buying additional clothes. Because now I'm like, where am I gonna wear these clothes? I overthink. Okay, so where am I gonna wear these clothes? Where am I gonna put these clothes? And I feel like I'm just feeding the marketing industrial complex. I again, I overthink. Okay, so but for me, once I realize that there's no joy in that, it's a function, it's a necessity at some points, but there's no real joy. It's easy for me to say, I do not need to buy clothes. And then when I do, I do. But I do need to take those trips. I really do. And so I have to plan my schedule, I have to plan my finances and all of that around the things that bring me the most fulfillment on a long-term level, not even on a short-term level. Because again, going back to the purchasing thing, there are many people who make purchases and their their joy is in the transaction of it and knowing that they have the money. But then later they're like, I don't even remember buying this. And they're not, they don't get the joy from dressing up or you know, putting those clothes on or whatever the case may be. So our joy, our fulfillment should be a long-term thing.

SPEAKER_00 30:33

Yeah. And I relate to some of what you were saying about the travel. I'm I wouldn't call myself a huge traveler, but one thing that is very important to me and my husband too is getting somewhere sunny in like March or April, because we live in Michigan, it's very gray. And a core value of ours also is adventure. And part of that, a lot, most of that I would say, is like being outside. And so going somewhere where we can hike and spend time in the sun and just kind of like get that fresh air in a time of the year that's gloomy and gray. If we don't have that during the year, it it just like affects, you know, it affects us for months because we have the anticipation, we have the trip, we have all the fun memories. So that is something that I have personally learned from experience that uh is a big, you know, part of my values.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

Yeah, that's so important and great that you and your husband um have figured that out. The iteration, even what I'm hearing you say is the planning, the anticipation, everything. It's not even just the trip itself, it's the lead up to the trip and the after and all of that. It's the things that it does for you. That's really huge. And I'd be willing to bet, Emily, that there's a lot of stuff that you and your husband say no to in the interim so that you can go on this trip. And that doesn't feel like a sacrifice. It doesn't, because the trip is so important to you that the things you have to let go of in order to have the trip are like, if that's what I gotta do, fine, because this trip brings me just so much there.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

Right. Yeah, a hundred percent. Cassidy can attest to the fact that one thing we often will not sacrifice, as you said, but like give up in exchange for you know being able to spend on on something like a trip is we we don't care much about eating out, so that's a really easy thing that we'll cut that budget for the month and put that money toward a trip if if we're short in that budget area. So absolutely. You're totally right. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

Yeah, I also I also like what you said earlier about how we can all have the same values, but they show up for each of us in totally different ways. So I would say that freedom is a big value for me as well, but it sounds like it shows up differently than it does for you, Simone. And so for me, I think a large part of feeling free is feeling like I can financially provide for myself and that I do not need to be dependent on any other person. Like that to me is true freedom. And I think that stems from my childhood. I saw my mom be in some sticky situations because she was financially dependent on people, and I think I was like, true freedom to me is being like, I've got my own money and therefore I can make my own decisions, and that feels really good. Um, and another value that Emily and I have in common is community, but we pour into those values in different ways. And so I one thing that I love to do is dine out. Contrary to Emily, we chat all the time about how my dining out budget for me as just myself is like double what hers is for her and her husband. But I think that going out and like eating at a local restaurant and supporting a local business, specifically with like friends or these relationships that I'm trying to nurture, is it it ends up feeling like such an experience. And so, like that for me feels very important, but like it's not important for Emily. And so it's really interesting to dig into your values and to feel like how does this light me up and show up for me in a bigger way, specifically, versus like how it would show up for someone else.

SPEAKER_02 34:05

Totally, totally agree. And it's funny that you talk about the eating out because that was the thing with me and my husband when we first got married. He is like you, loves, he loves, even though he's a way better cook than I am, he all he loves eating out because for him, it's the ex experiencing different food from different people. He's also very outgoing and very social. So he likes to do it in community with other people. But it's it's partially the community. It's really about it's a mixture. It's a mixture of I get to be around people and I get to experience these different food from different cultures and all of that. Whereas I'm very much like Emily in the sense of I can eat the same thing over and over at home and be perfectly fine. It does not matter to me. So what we had to do was, of course, find our balance. Of all right, well, because again, I talked about my travel, which is not cheap, and he is not the type to want to just say, okay, well, you go off and let me let me know how it goes. He's like, oh no, if you're having an adventure, we're having an adventure. So therefore, we had to figure out, okay, how do we do this on a budget level to where you can still go out? And because he would feel stifled if he could not go out to eat at least once a week. Whereas again, to me, I'm like, I don't understand that, but I accept you. But I likewise would feel stifled if I could not explore in the way that I I wanted to. So this is one of those challenges slash opportunities that come from being married, because then you get to combine your core values and figure out how to make them both work in the ways that they need to.

SPEAKER_00 35:41

Yeah. And that's a whole that could be a whole other episode of how to do that.

SPEAKER_02 35:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 35:48

What is something that people often judge themselves for financially that's actually really normal?

SPEAKER_02 35:54

Every single spending decision that they make, quite frankly. Well, I will say eight out of ten spending decisions, and it's more spending than savings. I don't hear anybody sitting around talking about I saved too much money. Why? You know, but many people judge themselves for their spending habits and whether I did enough. I was just talking to a friend of mine the other day who was contemplating a move and moving to another city for a job that would pay him more, but relative to the cost of living, it would about wash out. And so we were talking about the pros and cons of it. He was like, Well, I just feel like I should just buy a house. I should just stay here and buy a house and all of that. And I was like, okay, you know, again, I work in housing, so I totally understand why you would want to buy a house, but let's also be mindful of the decisions that we're making now. So he felt badly about the potential of spending more money in a higher cost of living market. But my point is think about the opportunities that you get in that market, not because it's a higher cost of living, but because this job is one that creates a trajectory towards something even greater. Whereas I was like, if you stay in this market, sure, you're spending less, your cost of living is lower, but your opportunities for growth are also staying stagnant. And so I use that as an example of many times we focus on the things that we're spending money on as the challenge and the things that we feel, oh, I'm wrong or I'm not doing this right. But sometimes we do spend money to bring ourselves into greater alignment. Um, again, whether it be with our core values, whether it be with a goal or something like that. And truthfully, you have to spend money to exist in society. Maybe you don't have to spend money on everything, but you do have to spend on certain things. This goes back to what we just talked about with your core values. Once you start to get clear on who you are and what you want out of life, the spending becomes really, I won't say easy because it's always, it can always be easy, but non-judgmental, right? Because now we're clear on this is in alignment. And I will tell you that even for me, even with my core values and all of that, there are some times where I still question myself. So what I do is I set a little bucket. So with my savings account, they're little buckets to the side where I can just say, okay, I'm putting $40 towards this every paycheck and $40 towards that or whatever. That gives me the space to spend on that entity, that thing, without any level of guilt, any level of worry at all. Because I set that money to the side. I set it to the side before I really wanted something. And I made a conscious decision to say, okay, I'm gonna spend X amount not spend, I'm gonna save X amount of dollars towards shopping, right? I don't have to spend that money if I don't want to, but whenever I want to, that money is sitting there. I have let go of the guilt. There's nothing wrong with it. And because I know I put that money to the side in context with all the other things that I had to, you know, deal with per year. So that the spending element is the thing that I hear people lament on the most. And there to say you're not gonna spend any money is not realistic, A, but B, there are ways to create context around it to where you're not just swiping your card and not being conscious about what you're spending in house.

SPEAKER_01 39:09

Yeah. Uh so Emily and I have both gone through really frugal phases in our lives. Specifically, I think for both of us, when we had first graduated college, had fairly low salaries. You're just trying to make the most with what you have. And so it's funny how all of that lingers. And now, like, I'm 32, so college was a decade ago for me. And it's funny how you're still untangling all of these things and how they still show up in different ways. So, like, if you were to ask me if I was frugal now, I would say, I don't think so. I'm definitely not compared to how I used to be. But I find myself laughing at myself sometimes because there are things that I will spend freely on, and I'm like, absolutely, I will spend money on this thing. And then there are other things that I'm still just like, why have I not given myself permission to just buy this thing? It would make my life so much easier. And so my two examples, Emily and I really both love supporting small local businesses. So, like, for example, I'm in Minneapolis. We just had the our biggest art fair of the year. It's like the citywide thousands of vendors. I went this past weekend, I'm like, I'm buying this art, I'm buying this mug, I'm buying, you know, I'm like, I want to support all these local makers. I love it, I love it, I love it. But then there are things where I'm like, why have I not allowed myself over the past three years to buy boxes of Kleenexes when I'm sick? I still tell myself I have to buy the cheapest toilet paper and then blow my nose with the cheapest toilet paper because I feel like buying a box of Kleenex is too much of a luxury. And I'm like, why? Same with coat hangers. I'm like, I have been using this system where I've been like, you have X number of coat hangers, and once you run out of those, and it wasn't a lot at all, but I was like, once you run out of these, this is a sign to yourself that you have way too many clothes and you're not buying new coat hangers. So then I just had clothes that didn't have coat hangers, and finally I was like, just buy a pack of coat hangers, Cassie. Like you have so much room in your closet, it's fine. But it it's just little things like that where I'm like, what's going on? What's going on?

SPEAKER_02 41:04

Yes, I'll tell you, we all have our version of the same hang-ups. Like when we look on the outside and we ate because again, you're telling yourself this, and I'm sure there are a whole lot of times where you're like, I refuse to buy coat hangers, right? Whereas anybody else is like, girl, it's coat hangers. Like, let's just move on. Right. And but but these are what happens is if you go deeper, these are the stories we tell ourselves about how we are approaching life, how we're approaching our money, all of these different things. And we just have to be really mindful. And that's where I go back to the question of is it really true? Is it really true that I am wasting money by not buying Kleenex? And I will tell you, I didn't buy Kleenex for a long time either, but I ended up, it wasn't a judgment lane. It was like, I just don't need it. I'm not sick that often, or whatever the case may be. It really wasn't until my husband moved in and he started buying the Kleenex. And I was like, why am I not buying Kleenex? I know. And then I did. But it really is the stories that we tell ourselves. We have to, when we notice these random things, we have to really ask ourselves, is it really true that I am not, I should not buy Kleenex? Right. Or is there something more there? And once we start to debunk, and again, the more we do work on ourselves and and and really start to get honest with ourselves, the easier it becomes to say, it's an old story that it's a waste of money to buy Kleenex. Now I don't need to buy it and um and you know pull it out and then use it for one small thing. And like I'm gonna use it for its intended purpose, right? But I'm so I'm not gonna waste it. But I'm also, but I can be, I can buy Kleenex and be mindful of how I spend my money. It's a both and it's not an either or. It's such a great example, though, because it feels small, but there are a lot of us that make those decisions based on something that's not very big in the grand scheme of life, but we have decided that it's huge. And then likewise, the crazy part is you talk about cleans, which may cost $3, but we'll make a $300 decision and give it no thought whatsoever. And so it has nothing to do, and this is where we go back to the origin of our conversation. It's all emotional. It has nothing to do with the valuation of it because obviously you talked about the art and you go into the Minneapolis art fair, and I'm sure nothing in there was $3, or if it was, it wasn't that much. And you were able to jump in and say, say less, I'm in here, I'm doing it all. This is a perfect example of how we make decisions from a space of emotions versus logic. And again, I don't say that from any level of right or wrong. There is no right or wrong. These are just the decisions that we make. The more conscious we become about our decisions, because I'm not saying that you should spend $3 and you should not spend $300. That's not the point here. The more you are in alignment with who you are and the values that you have. And as we talked about how you execute those values, the easier it becomes to say, absolutely $300, say less because that $300 to me is going to feel like a $3,000 purchase versus the $3 is just gonna feel like a waste to me. So I'm not going to spend that. And it's okay to make those decisions. And yes, you have to make sure you have the money to spend the $300, but let's act like we do in this moment and get past that and get into the emotions of it.

SPEAKER_01 44:33

Really quick, as we wrap up, if listeners want to connect with you, where can they find you online?

SPEAKER_02 44:38

We can go to uh affluence reimagined.com. That's my website. You can book a time, 30-minute sex segments to talk to me. We'll talk for free about what have you. And I would love to connect with any of you guys about the different things that you do. I am a financial wellness coach. So as we've talked about today, I focus heavily on our approach to money, um, our emotions as it relates to money, our relationship with money. I do do the practical elements as well of, you know, if you need a basic budget and savings and all of that, but I'm not a financial advisor. I'm not encouraging you to start investments or any of that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 45:14

Yeah. Perfect. Thank you so much for coming on. We really enjoyed this conversation.

SPEAKER_00 45:21

That's a wrap on another episode of the Finance Girlies podcast. Nothing in this episode is meant to be taken as financial advice.

SPEAKER_01 45:28

Please do your own research and talk to a professional if you need advice. If you like this episode, consider leaving a review. Better yet, send the show to a friend who might enjoy it too. Love ya. Bye. Nailed it.