Ep:89 From Survival to Innovation: The Inspiring Story Behind Ask Joan

Summary

In this episode, Katie shares her inspiring journey from survivor of domestic abuse to innovator of a discreet safety platform called Ask Joan. She discusses the technology behind her solution, the importance of awareness, and how her experience drives her mission to help others.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Ask Joan and Its Purpose

02:51 Katie's Personal Journey and Inspiration Behind Ask Joan

05:56 Understanding Different Forms of Domestic Abuse

09:01 The Technology Behind Ask Joan

11:52 The Impact of Domestic Abuse on Children

14:32 Challenges in Leaving an Abusive Relationship

17:37 Supporting Victims of Domestic Abuse

20:39 Katie's Ongoing Journey and Legal Challenges

23:28 Final Thoughts and Encouragement for Others

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

If this episode resonated, please share it with another mum who might need it. Follow us on socials at learnoutmummers.

SPEAKER_03 0:09

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SPEAKER_02 0:21

Thanks.

SPEAKER_03 0:30

Hello, burnt out mummers. Hope you're all okay. We are in the studio, it's 12 from hot today in this heat wave. So we have got the tree of life behind us, we're in the front room, and we've had to move out because it was just too hot to film in there. So welcome back to the Burnt Out Mummers podcast, guys. Today's episode is an incredibly important one. We're joined by Katie, founder of Ask Joan. The reason why we're laughing is because I can't say this word. It's an innovative platform designed to help women experience domestic abuse to access support safely and discreetly. So this conversation could generally help someone listening today. So if you think someone needs to hear it, please share this episode. Katie, thank you so much for joining us and all of the mishaps in order for us to get on. It is so hot, we're all just like melting. I've got a bit of word. I know.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Yeah, so hi, I'm Katie Longhurst, as you said, the founder of Ask Joan. My day job, I'm a CTO for a health company and most importantly a mum. But as you mentioned, I'm also a survivor of domestic abuse. So Ars Joan started with a kettle. I was in an abusive relationship. I used to basically say to him, I'm going to make you a cup of tea, let's sit down, let's talk about this, and tell me what I've done from so one day I thought, what if the kettle could call for help? What if the things that we already had that was used into supply could be the one thing that saved me? That was the whole idea behind last June. Last June? Um it's basically in a way for people to call for help silently without anyone recognising it.

SPEAKER_03 2:30

I think it I think it's amazing. I think I saw you on BBC and I thought uh it's such an amazing idea. I mean, I think domestic violence, a lot of people have experienced it and it's a really um serious subject. Do you so obviously your background's tech tech is it? Did you say you're a CTO? Yeah. Is that how it helped you develop the idea?

SPEAKER_01 2:53

I think for me, I my experpetrator was ex-provisory and he owned a closed protection company. So everything that the people to me failed. I had a panic down, I didn't put the first three recall. My house was bad, fire was in my phone, tracking in my car. So I needed to find a way that I could pull back without actually recognising and without creating an even worse improvement within my home. So at the time I was working for a big FM energy company, creating smart buildings. I was just like, there's got to be a take way for me to pull for health, which is what was the background behind Dash Jones. So I looked at energy data because it's public, we own our own energy data. So I thought there's got to be a way that I can create energy data to call for health, which is how we created artificially, basically by turning a petrol, a poster, and every house hold up a deal on and off in a particular custom, it turns emergency alert when someone's taken, just because we use artificial intelligence and data models to detect that unusual surgery electricity. So for me, my partner wouldn't have been able to detect that because every time that his emotions were tightened, I was like, let's sit down, let's talk about this. I'm going to make the cup of tea. So I could have gone to making a cup of tea, turned the kettle on and off, called for help, gone back to the cup of tea, knowing that I was going to get an emergency response that I needed. That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_03 4:22

So did you actually set it up for yourself? Were you using it?

SPEAKER_01 4:26

No, not a little. So my case, I have a lot of holding. So I've been out of my abusive relationship for eight years. It doesn't mean the abuse is delegated. But after that, I did where he was ex-military, then the cloud protection company, I had like 106 members of being moved towards Ireland. And when I came and developed a new identity, when I came back, I was like, there's got to be a better way. I've got to be able to help people that are in my situation because please fail me to run and time again. Yeah. So although I'm out of that relationship, it's I think it's it's maybe who I am.

SPEAKER_02 5:04

Yes, yeah. And this is like a big thing that we you know, we have guests and they've either been through trauma or something like this has happened in their life, and it actually, you know, it's a big topic for us, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 5:19

Because it's it jets you off to well, it can lead to burnout. So, you know, emotionally it's so draining. Um, and obviously, how you had to live to to well be on um what's the word, eggshells all the time to manage his emotions, and he was so obviously unbelievably clever, he had his close protection company that you had to think outside the box. I mean, it I think it was a save and grace as well that your background was technology, so it's led you to this.

SPEAKER_02 5:47

Yeah, and and actually, what I was going on from what I said was what happened to you is put you in a position where you're helping millions out there from what you've experienced. Can you explain some different forms of abuse um which people may not recognise um when you're in that situation?

SPEAKER_01 6:11

Yeah, of course. So for me, I didn't actually think it was domestic abuse until he actually broke my nose, broke my nose, broke my cheekbone. Oh my gosh. I didn't recognise it as abuse because harassment control, prize and isolation, so controlling someone's phone, controlling their friendships, their access to help. So if we only build solutions that are live, we're leaving out women that need it the most. So I think people always think that domestic abuse is physical. It's not, it's economic abuse. He got 45,000 pounds to get in my name. It's stalking and harassment, it's monitoring traffic. So I had a traffic on my car, I had to fire my phone, he bugged the hat, he monitored every single area of my life, and I think that emotional abuse is much worse than a physical, it's much harder to recover. I tried, it was awful. I was taken being punched in the face any day over him pushing me. So his nice comments became touching. Then it was I was dressing property and getting the wrong kind of attention, and it was chanting teams about my friends, so telling me that my friends were pushing me and my family. So eventually I was left standing completely anatomy alone because he had translated me from everyone, and that is really what coercive control looks like. And coupled with stalking and harassment, which people do recognise, and then violence. But the big under the underlying thing is economic abuse, you're financial trapped. I was in a privileged position that I had um like a senior leadership job, so I was a member of SLT, but he still managed to get out 45,000 pounds of debt within my name, the trap meeting. And then he took control of our finances because he said I'm planning for our future. I'm older, I'm more mature, I want you to I want you to take control of your income because I'm planning our holidays and planning to buy a house, I'm planning for our future. So everything he said to me, it was about how he was looking after me, but actually it's a form of control, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:16

And I think that's the difficult thing, like a lot of these behaviours, um it it's it's a lot of it's covered up around I'm doing it for the family or you know working as a team, um, but once you are involved or trapped financially, it's very difficult to get out because obviously, how would you be able to get a house? How would you? I think if everybody was millionaires and they're in this kind of relationship or had access to money, they'd leave tomorrow. But it's that trap entrapment, isn't it? That's the scary part, and it's so easily done as well. Because obviously, when you are in a relationship, you want to help the other person, you want to help the family, you're giving. Um, but it's to what extent that that happens with. I mean, what behaviours would you say are dismissed that shouldn't be?

SPEAKER_01 9:03

I think we're talking about the bruises. I think that coercive control really starts there. It starts with, for example, I just want to know where you are because I worry. Yeah. It's him talking on your phone because he loves you. It's you slowly lose in touch with friends because it's easier for them to have an argument with him afterwards. And by the time that you're in that, you're slowly losing touch with your friends, your family, but by the time you're there, it feels it doesn't feel like abuse. Because you've already lost your independence, so now you can't leave. And I didn't recognise that in myself for such a long time. It took me about five years to recognise that that was actually abuse. And that's why I built something that you can call for help and reach out from before you actually recognise it's abuse. If you got if you think that all that's not right, then someone can have joined for free. Yeah, okay. Yeah, so it's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 9:55

How I mean, what exactly you've you've gone into R Stren a little bit, but how does it work? So you went into it works with technology and and the the kettles or something. Do people have to pay for it or no?

SPEAKER_01 10:09

So we just set our strength as a charity. So I've I created R Stream three years ago, originally as a commercial project product where I've partnered with local authorities. But if you look at domestic abuse, 20% of victims still aren't in the system. Other people are too scared to admit that they're a victim of domestic abuse, or they don't recognise that they're a victim of domestic abuse. We've now made it a charity, so it's free and accessible for everyone. So it's not an app on your phone, so Bio wouldn't be able to detect it. It's all cloud-based. Right. So there's nothing interesting within your home. We literally take a look directly from your smart energy meter and to stream your energy meter so it can be activated by turning the kettle off in a particular pattern, or a toaster, or a hairdryer.

SPEAKER_03 10:56

That is so clever. I think that's that is a really good use of AI. You know, when people talk about how AI can be um detrimental, but that I think is something where it is just used in such a positive way. And for the right solution. And obviously, you said it that's how you make it discreet and safe to use because obviously a lot of coercive control, they want to go through your phone, they want to check your messages, um, and yeah, it's fantastic. I mean, what happens after somebody reaches out?

SPEAKER_01 11:27

So, how it works is if you trigger our strength, um a text message, push notification, or a call is made to an emergency contract. So, within the company, we do have domestic research, so trained is so we always say that it needs to be tied for a safety plan. So, when that event happens, what is your safety plan? Is it that it's your next door neighbour calling in for asking for sugar, or is it then calling a 999 response to be tied for a safety plan? Because obviously, if someone is not trained or you haven't got that planning phase, just do it.

SPEAKER_03 12:01

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, what you're building really, I think, is something that's going to be really big. Um, how far are you away? Have you already launched it or are you you nearly there?

SPEAKER_01 12:13

Well, it launched two years ago as a commercial product. So we partnered with local authority, women's aid, uh Revolute, and Erasist Jurassic Community Right that actually saved my life here in Cairns. Then we realised that some victims are reaching out to us directly and we didn't have the training specialist support to provide them with that safety plan. So we looked at a different group taking it as a charity so we could actually get that specialist support internally to give them that safe plan and to give them that technology. So now it's launched as a charity and we're making it publicly available to everyone. That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

I think I know hopefully it will get out to our audience, which is why I wanted to bring you on because um what an inspiration you are, and and you know, from what you've been through, it's just fantastic to inspire so many others.

SPEAKER_03 13:05

Obviously, you said before um you were given a different identity or something, weren't you? And how are you making yourself safe now, obviously, with this going public?

SPEAKER_01 13:15

So the reason I went public is three years ago I was sat with my myself as godparent, and my patriarchs hadn't been here. So I still get regular death break, my car still gets keyed, my tries still gets splashed. Wow. Um and it's been ongoing, and I think Joan as a way for my 12-year-old son to call for help. So he didn't have access to his phone, he knew that he could call for help. So and I was talking to Max's godparent, and he said to me, he's still got control over you if you don't publicly. And I figured now he's probably going to film me for the last 13 years and kill me. He's not going to go away anytime soon. So the more that I'm in the public eye, the more that I raise thewareness, the rest the the hope the average is with for other women.

SPEAKER_03 14:04

I mean, I I think you're so brave. Um I I actually took an X2 court for domestic violence, and it was the same thing. It was like you either stand up or you sit, you know, you sit down and other people will go through the same thing, but like you're always going to be looking over your shoulder. Um, so what you're doing I do think is really, really brave. Um, but I think the outcome of it will be far greater than the risk, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

No, I like the way I see it too. I just think rather help use a platform, use my experience and help other people. I know that my perpetrators aren't going to go anywhere. I've got anomalous station, an enforcement order, prohibitive steps order, I've got everything in place. But because of his military training, I'm never going to be safe. So why not do that for good?

unknown 14:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:56

We had somebody on recently, didn't we? From um uh was she from the States, and she said um she was a top lawyer, actually, funny enough, and he was the same, he was very high powered, and he used to manipulate her with all these emails and everything. And I said to her, What do you know what it is? Because she's written a book that makes that personality that way, and she said she said she was in her book, but she didn't reveal it. But I I it always fascinates me as to why people end up being that way because it is so destructive and it's so cruel, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 15:33

So and sometimes well, she did actually touch upon sometimes it happens in their childhood that you know, and then that that's why they become that hurt they and it's like nothing means anything, it's just a form of winning as well.

SPEAKER_03 15:48

So yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 15:50

Yeah, and you know, when you're in that situation, um it's like a topic where you know, like who do you go to? And did you ever get to people and tell them how you're feeling then they just say to you, why don't you just leave? And you know, it's it when you're in that, it's not as simple as that, is it? Can you can you give a bit of advice of why it's not that simple? Why it's not that simple and like touch upon what you went through when you were in that situation?

SPEAKER_01 16:25

I think the first thing for me was I didn't leave because I was in denial. Denial became my survival, that the person that I loved most of the world was the person that was actually destroying me. The third thing for me was denial. The second thing was asking for help actually meant that I had to admit that things were as bad as they were. And often to yourself before anyone else, there's that shame, there's that fear that no one's going to believe you. And there's also that very real danger that reaching out can make things worse before they get better. Many women have tried uh to leave before sometimes sometimes worse, but you don't know how exactly dangerous that moment's going to be until you try to leave.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

And people think that women don't want to help, or they just stay because they love them. But sometimes the cost of leaving is higher than the cost of pain. Me, my perpetrator's behaviour was in pattern. So it would start with um emotional abuse, then it would be damage to my car, damage to my property, and it would just be gaslighting, so he would move things around in the house like I was going mad. And every time I had the courage to leave, or I asked for him, he would then start harassing my friends. So I thought by staying, I was protecting my friends. Because slowly but surely he was picking off my friends one by one. For example, my best friend, he told her friends that she was having an affair. Wow. And then contacted her boss and said that she'd accused him of sexual harassment. So I felt by staying, I was protecting my friends and family, and it got to a point where I thought if I stayed and he controlled every aspect of my life, I would be safe.

unknown 18:06

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 18:07

And then when I got the strength to leave, I couldn't because he had taken control of all of our finances.

SPEAKER_02 18:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

And he had got all of that debt out in my name.

SPEAKER_02 18:18

That's just crazy. In that situation, how can fat friends and family support someone without push like without pushing them when you're in that situation?

SPEAKER_01 18:32

I think for me, I needed someone to tell me that they believed me. Yeah, yeah. Where my perpetrator was obviously close protection ex-military, he was a master manipulator. He manipulated the citizens that were in place to help me, he manipulated my friends and manipulated my family. And when I started, it was 15 years ago. So that parental control might be recognised then. But it's just letting people know that they're there for you, that they believe you, you're not alone, and that you're not actually very nice. That's the biggest thing for me that I thought I was losing my mind.

unknown 19:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:09

It's um yeah, it affects everybody around you. I mean, you said you've got a little one. How does uh domestic abuse affect children, do you think, even if they don't witness it?

SPEAKER_01 19:22

So my son has got ASD, he has got really bad anxiety, and I didn't think that he would remember what happened. So he hasn't seen his dad since he was two years old. But the last instance that involved his dad was where the police put through the front door and the back door because he had asked to see my son and he had left my son alone in the house to call the police to add advantage. So they kicked through the front door and the back door's got to suggest his son. My son then went on to play school and any lap was to trigger him and he used to hide off the table. Now he doesn't interest law enforcement, um, he doesn't like noises, um, and things trigger him. And he's very angry, but he doesn't understand why. And I think because he was so young, I didn't recognise the impact that that would have on him.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

But it also was he wondered why he didn't have a dad. Because I never actually told him that what he thought of dad is my dad's got a falling head because technically it's true. His dad has got a falling head.

unknown 20:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

But I think now that the dad is telling the truth and quote publicly, he understands that he's got the problem. That it's not that he said he's not when he said left him, it's that he said wasn't very well. But I do think that children that are in that situation do you you need to find them help that he had um sound he and went to verify draw pictures and talk, and they need to find that face because they still don't know how to do with animations. He's 12 now and he still really struggles.

SPEAKER_03 20:56

It's yeah, I think you you've you've taken on a lot. Um, Katie, I just want to say, um, I mean, how what was the first steps that you took to get out of the relationship?

SPEAKER_01 21:12

So for me, I reached out to Oasis Domestic Abuse Charity for advice because I wasn't sure whether what I was going through was domestic abuse. But at this point I had social services involved investigating me and I didn't matter. So obviously, he used to call the ambulance to all hours and I say I was trying to kill myself. He then used to report me for abandonment and lots of different things. The services that were meant to protect me didn't.

SPEAKER_03 21:40

So they he twisted the whole thing?

SPEAKER_01 21:42

He twisted the whole narrative.

SPEAKER_03 21:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

So I literally went to my local charity and I explained what he was doing, and I was just like, I don't understand. Is this domestic abuse? How can I leave? But it took me twelve times to actually leave that relationship. So they told me to um think of If I could have access to a phone, I could think of a safe word. So call someone, tell them a safe word so they could interact that situation and call for help for me. Have a bad time. Have someone that knows the situation that you're in. Have money set aside and not wait for that situation to escalate and not wait for it to get physically violent. If I felt that I was walking on eggshells and I needed to leave that environment, then leave. Always have an escape planned and know your support services. So if that oasis I had their number saved on my phone, like not as oasis service, but so I knew that I had someone that I could call for help. And leaving doesn't happen overnight. Some days you feel really strong. Some days you feel like that decision is absolutely impossible. I just had to take each day as it came. In the end, that decision was taken out of my hands because he hurt my son, and that was the catalyst. So he had strangled me, broke into a memory, broken my cheekbone, and threw my son down the stairs. So I instantly went into flight mode and the police, I got a nine-nine run response because my neighbours called the police, my Palae Club was funny enough disconnected by the police. So my neighbours called the police and they moved me to rest roads in the middle of the night. And then they gave me a new identity and moved me to Northern Ireland. So I I would have left at that point, but it would have taken me a time to leave. So I think don't be rationalist, don't think we need to leave the city. Work out the safest way to leave. Don't keep your passports at home. Yeah. Because you need that form of ID. So my driving license and passports, I go to my next door neighbour. I had a bag at my next door neighbours just for like my son's toys and a change of clothes, just that if I knew I had to leave, I could leave immediately.

SPEAKER_03 23:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

So you have to plan your escape, unfortunately, and don't wait for it to get violent.

SPEAKER_02 23:59

Wow, oh god. This conversation today has been so important, and you are such an inspiration, and you're a survivor for us. Like you're one of our prime survivors of our burnt out mum's guests that have come on because you are just so inspirational what you've been through and what you've accomplished yourself from you know the Australian taking the biggest step.

SPEAKER_03 24:27

Is he behind bars now? No.

SPEAKER_01 24:30

Oh my gosh. Right, okay. So when so I basically make some difference where I had 169 police instances, and then I was actually arrested. So when they moved me to Northern Ireland, I didn't go into refuge for three months because he found me. So they literally changed my name. So I flew back my old passport and got arrested at the airport for harassment. And then I got a solicitor, and then the independent crime commissioner did an investigation into my case. But then he, where he had complex PTSD, he can um he basically went down the mental health route so he got session and then kept responding from his mental health facilities. So I went down the legal route, I got a number of station orders last lifetime, I got a prohibited death order, I got a residency order, and all of his parents' rights were moved for myself. And I've even got an enforcement order. But because he still owns his own clothes protection company, he still has mazing we like to be able to target this year.

SPEAKER_03 25:42

I mean it's scary, it is scary. Scary, it's it's it's like a web, isn't it? But I we wanted to get you on, obviously, to give others hope. Um, and also like it's been in the news a lot about domestic violence. Sometimes after the football, it it you know that's that's a trigger for them. Um, and also like on how to leave, because if you don't leave in the right way, that can also be a trigger that can be really dangerous. So um I love all the advice that you've given today, and we're gonna put it all in our posts, and Katie, we're gonna get all the details off you because you want to spread this as much as we can.

SPEAKER_02 26:16

Thank you for you know sharing with us.

SPEAKER_03 26:19

Thank you, and we're gonna share all the information about Ask Joan and put it in the description so listeners can find out more safely all the everything they need to know. And we just want to let you all know remember you're not alone and support is available. And we're if you want to we'll get some details off you, um Katie, as well, if you've got any advice, so we can put it on our post. Um, so we want to just say thank you everyone for listening. And if today's episode especially has resonated with you, or you know someone who may need support, please share this episode. It could generally make a difference or save somebody's life. Um, Katie, thank you again for coming on. I know it's something really brave. Um we're quite happy to share all the um information about us, Joan, and yeah, we hope to speak to you soon. Good luck with it. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 27:08

Thank you. We're blowing you kitty. I know today was with all the energy that you've given us today. Today we managed to get it live.

SPEAKER_03 27:15

We had every obstacle going in front of us, but we did it.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

So and you know, today that this will really resonate with one of our listeners out there, or some of our listeners out there. So, what you what you've explained and put your situation in will really help someone. So, thank you again. No, thank you very much for having me. Thank you, Katie. Enjoy next day. Bye bye, bye-bye. If you're loving the show, don't forget to download our latest episodes. It helps us a ton by boosting the show and making sure more people find us.

SPEAKER_03 27:58

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