FATHER'S DAY Special Episode: Father-Son Interview: How A Pastor Builds Culture, Coaches Leaders, And Guards Commitment

We unpack a practical blueprint for integrity in ministry, from five-star leadership to coaching through misalignment, and share how clarity tools shape a healthy staff and volunteer culture. We also talk Bible habits, accountability, and why commitment turns spectators into owners.

• ministerial ethics shaped by 1–2 Timothy and Titus
• five-star leadership: calling, character, chemistry, competency, capacity
• clarity through the North Valley Compass and shared axioms
• coaching conversations to address vision drift and misalignment
• commitment culture that builds ownership and maturity
• equipping volunteers instead of doing ministry for them
• wise counsel and modeling growth as a leader
• young leaders, apologetics, and deeper Bible engagement

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Transcript

Welcome And Sam’s Seminary Journey

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome to Real Life Ministry, where we are dedicated to teaching and encouraging Christians to live free and live strong. Your host today is Ryan Rice, a Bible teacher, a pastor, entrepreneur, and a writer. Join us as we dive into various topics and how they relate to faith, values, and making a positive impact in America. Let's dive into it.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

Alright, guys, welcome back to another episode of Real Life Ministry. I'm in the studio today with a very special man. A man who is like flesh and blood, but he is flesh and blood because it is my son, Sam. What is up?

unknown 0:53

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 0:53

Sam, you've joined us, bro.

SPEAKER_04 0:55

Straight up. I straight up here. I can't believe it. I can't believe we're doing a second episode.

SPEAKER_02 1:03

We did one episode before, didn't we?

SPEAKER_04 1:05

We did. And it was not on we're real life ministries, was it?

SPEAKER_02 1:10

I don't remember. I don't even know what it was about. What was it about?

SPEAKER_04 1:13

It was on quail hunting, so probably not.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

It had been probably probably uh errors on the quail today. Okay, so what do you want to talk about in this episode, Sam? Sam's joined us. He is a uh student over at Grand Canyon University. He is engaged to the wonderful Annie Peterson, and he is studying a five-year program in the Barnabas program to get his bachelor's and master's in a five-year stretch. Is that right?

SPEAKER_04 1:45

That's right. I'm in my third year. So after, well, in April, April 25th, I will graduate with my bachelor's in Christian studies, and my undergrad is in business entrepreneurship. And I actually wrapped up both uh my last two undergrad classes uh about two weeks ago. So now I'm full-time seminary starting next semester. So I just really have to finish up these two classes that I'm working on right now, which is ministerial ethics and systematic theology too. And this interview comes out of ministerial ethics.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

That's good.

SPEAKER_04 2:25

Talking about how one ought to involve themselves in ministry, how they need to act in ministry, and it's all really based off of First Timothy, Second Timothy, and Titus. And so

Ministerial Ethics And Integrity Focus

SPEAKER_04 2:41

every class period, we'll our homework is to read through uh a chapter in one of the one of those three books, and then we'll talk about it. We'll go over ministerial ethic reports and um and then we are kind of talking about what it looks like to have integrity in ministry. That's been a major theme. And by the end of the class, our goal is to come out with a code of ethics on how we are going to uh act in ministry, and so it's been a great class so far. My professor is Dr. Pete Charpentier. Wow, all the way from Louisiana, and he talks like this, and he is he a Cajun, Raging Cajun. He's a raging Cajun. He grew up in the Bayou. Bayou. Wow. Yep. Okay, so and his wife worked at Dallas Theological Seminary.

SPEAKER_02 3:34

Really? I'd like to get to know them. That's sweet. Well, I think there is an intersection of what we're talking about with you, Sam, and then with our listeners, because uh real life ministry is really helping equip and encourage Christians to live free and live strong in American culture. And so in this episode, we're gonna kind of unpack some questions. Do these predominantly revolve around church questions?

SPEAKER_04 4:05

They uh they revolve around pastoral leadership and how do you handle situations in ministry? So, really, just the ethics behind the the what goes on in your head when uh you have to deal with X, Y, and Z. How do you do it?

SPEAKER_02 4:24

Wow, this could be bad. Uh, it could be really good though. So then those of you listening in, you're thinking, how does this apply to me? Maybe you can take this as uh prospective church pastor. Your church pastor has the same kind of thought process. Um not necessarily do not want to represent all church pastors and my responses in these questions. I briefly, uh, I mean, very, very briefly have heard the questions. And within about 60 seconds of a barrage of a number of questions, I responded and said, Yeah, that sounds good. We can go with that. And that was 24 hours ago. So I have since that time uh taught f three different services and took a little nap and ready to rock and roll.

SPEAKER_04 5:16

Yeah. And I think if you're listening to this and you go to North Valley Church, I think, or if you're thinking about going to North Valley Church, it's this podcast could serve helpful for you in that this is how the senior pastor thinks. And well, you might not want to go to the church after I answer all these questions. No, yeah, but there's a lot of wisdom that goes into this. And so uh if you know, if you end up really liking this, and you'll probably find it really helpful because I'd say a lot of the things that North Valley does and has in place is super biblically aligned.

SPEAKER_02 5:54

And so well, appreciate it, buddy.

SPEAKER_04 5:56

Yeah, so I I think that all right.

SPEAKER_02 5:57

Well, let's just jump in. So give me any question you

The Five-Star Leadership Framework

SPEAKER_02 6:01

got.

SPEAKER_04 6:01

Okay, so first question what are the guiding principles or a code of ethics that you use to make sure that you are leading others with integrity? All right. So this is really pertaining to your staff. So how do you do you have a code of ethics, principles in place that help make sure that you're leading your staff with integrity?

SPEAKER_02 6:24

Well, I mean, obviously it we're gonna look to the Bible for everything, you know. I mean, as far as a code of ethics, we've established what we call um the North Valley Compass, which is like an acrostic that goes through and explains different values that we have for the church and their principles or axioms, which we help ensure, you know, there's alignment within uh just the church and the staff team. And then, you know, as far as it individually, like when we're looking at hiring uh various staff members, we go through what's called five-star leadership. And that would be, you know, if you can envision a star, you know, five points at the nor at the very top of the star is the idea of calling. Like there needs to be a very clear calling, and so um calling brings in that question: I'm following Jesus Christ, I'm called to know him, I'm a born-again believer, I'm growing in my faith, and then calling to the local church, and then meaning North Valley, like this sense of like I I I've God's called me to serve in this church, and then from there, we would move around the star with the points, would be character, so that there's character alignment, and so that's where your biblical qualifications come in play. Like, obviously, but first you need to be a born-again Christian called to the church, and this uh keeps us in alignment. Is this is this answering the questions? Do you think yes, I do. Okay, so the second one would be the character, and we would look for character qualifications that would be specific to the role, and you know, so um godly, virtuous uh individuals, they'd have to have character. Secondly, or thirdly, we would say maybe chemistry, and that's just a uh just a literal literal ability to connect with people, and especially the people that they are wanting to do ministry with. If it's kids, kids, if it's adults, adults, if it's the staff team, you know, that they're working closely with, that they have sp specific staff members, they need to have a just an easy working relationship so it's not complicated and hard, you know. So the EQ is oftentimes overlooked, which would be the emotional quotient versus the IQ. So most people tend to think like hire really the smart people, and that's great, but you want to hide hire people with high emotional intelligence. Uh, and so that would be the chemistry. Moving on through the star, there would be the um the competency. So this would be the ability to um accomplish the things that they have uh to do. So if you're asking them to organize or reach people or to recruit leaders and train leaders, they actually are competent enough to do that. And so trick typically we look for track records and uh see if people they've been able to do that. And they just need to have the competency, the skill set, uh, the ability to actually pull the job off. And then I would say, so we said calling, we said character, we said chemistry, competency, and then the last star would be capacity. And that just means that they actually have the time and the um the time and the ability emotionally to handle the weight of that ministry role. So if they constantly are late, behind schedule, or feeling overwhelmed because they don't know how to deal with certain people, like we don't want anybody to be involved in ongoing hard work where they just don't even have the emotional capacity. Say they've got really sick family members or they've got super crazy busy schedules, so they just don't have capacity or margin to be able to do the job. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_04 10:40

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_02 10:41

So that that five-star leadership thing is a big deal, and I know other churches do that kind of thing, but um that's real crucial in common language for us.

SPEAKER_04 10:51

Yeah, where so five-star leadership, that's really great. Where did that come from? And how has that proved or served you guys? How's has that been useful?

SPEAKER_02 11:04

I don't know, you know, I don't know where it's come from. I'm gonna try to Google it right now. I think we might have adapted it from somewhere. Five-star uh leadership, yeah, uh model, uh character, calling. It's kind of been around the church world. Yeah, it says five-star leadership is what it's called, and it sounds like well, it says often exemplified by George C. Marshall's model of ethical servant-driven and humble action. Oh, that's cool.

SPEAKER_05 11:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:41

So apparently this guy, but I I don't know. I mean, you see everybody, all these different people doing it.

SPEAKER_04 11:49

So um and so how has that proved helpful for North Valley?

SPEAKER_02 11:56

Well, I mean, we just we I mean, like when we're building team leaders and we say, hey, they need to be, you know, they need to be um five-star leaders, that they they get it. Yeah. Yeah, you know, like you can, you know, so we even look for some of our community group leaders and our different elders and like they all have to exemplify five-star leadership.

SPEAKER_04 12:18

Yeah. And you want them to

Vision, Compass, And Culture Alignment

SPEAKER_04 12:20

meet every star.

SPEAKER_02 12:21

Yeah, they they do because it's like it's it's just only fair, you know, like because if they don't have, let's just say they don't have chemistry, well, that means they're not gonna get along with people. Yeah. Or say they don't they they don't have competency. That means they actually don't have the ability to do the job very well because they're just not skifted or skifted, skilled or gifted at that position.

SPEAKER_04 12:43

Yeah, a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_02 12:45

So that that I'm glad I could answer that. That sounds like I'm really studied and well up to date.

SPEAKER_04 12:53

Well, you are. You did good. You passed the test. I passed, yay. You passed.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

All right, what's another question?

SPEAKER_04 13:00

So we'll move on to the next question. There's three total. So that was the first one, and we did that in six minutes. So we'll see if we can match the time on this one. How do you interact with other team members who are not fully committed to your ministry vision? And I think you maybe answered this already in your last question of you try to hire people who are fully committed to the vision, but uh sometimes vision changes and right, and so how do you interact with leaders or members who are not fully committed?

SPEAKER_02 13:33

Um coaching conversations and you know, like, hey, like we wanna we wanna talk to you about like just we want to be real clear that we want to make the team work, make the dream work, because and that's an axiom of ours. And so, like, you know, if you don't have alignment or something, then you're kind of misfiring. And so I think relationships determine the results. So, um, you know, you you have to work at a relationship, any relationship. And those of you that are listening and you're married, you know, like if you want a close marriage and a good marriage, you're just gonna have to spend time with people and and try to figure it out. So again, I think that I'm gonna see if I can find our North Valley compass and see if I can find that real quick. But this is uh, I'll just read to you some of the things that we've just been installing a little bit more clearly. Um, this is a document that I wrote, and it's designed to bring clarity and shared language as we continue to build teams of staff culture and expand our volunteer base. And and the desire was to implement these principles um to onboard new volunteers, church members, and staff. And so for the last 13 years, I've operated with a set of axioms. These are truths that we've intentionally embedded in during ministry culture. And while these axioms have really shaped us, there's really just too many to remember. So I created the North Valley Compass with a clearer, more concise, creative way to communicate the heart, the culture, and the feel of the church. And the compass is not our church values, it's actually not our vision statement or purpose statement. It functions differently. It it provides a practical guide for behavior, attitude, leadership, and ministry alignment.

SPEAKER_04 15:25

Yeah, and that's super helpful for anyone who's on staff or a major leader in the church to know this is how I, this is what it looks like to be a part of North Valley.

SPEAKER_02 15:37

Yeah, and I mean, this is, you know, like we've we've had easy values that we've just recent more recently communicated, like faith, family, freedom. So people like get, oh, okay, I know what the church is about. Like, you know, of course, like when we say our vision statement, we'd say our vision is to reach the North Valley for Jesus Christ. Like, you know, that's like a huge vision. Like, is like that's there's thousands and thousands and thousands of people moving in in the future. Uh, this area is slated to have just uh a lot of growth. And so that's a vision, a purpose is more clear to why we exist. We exist to gather people to discover truth for life, grow in their journey, and then go out and make a difference in the world. The compass statement that I'm I can read to you a little bit about, and again, it's going through a bit of uh creating the culture and the language for alignment. So I I re refresh me on what your question was, and I'll try to be more precise.

SPEAKER_04 16:37

Well, it's how do you interact with team members who are not fully committed to your vision? And you said coaching initially, and I think that this document probably really helps avoid even that in general of having people on your team who don't are not fully committed to the vision. But yeah, let's return back to that question.

SPEAKER_02 16:58

Yeah, well, so I would say, you know, again, like if there's vision drift, uh, I will I realize that it's my failure to not clarify the vision enough. Or is this like a rogue staff member trying to go in a different division? Because I think when you have multiple visions, you have division. And so you don't want that. And two different visions necessarily aren't theologically erroneous, meaning bad or or, but there could be philosophically different about how you're going about doing something. And so you you do want to have some good alignment. So it really starts up top, I think, with the senior pastor and the executive pastor. And so James and I, in our current context, we spend a lot of time together, a lot of time together, more than any other staff member on a regular basis, doing fun things, spending, I mean, we'll take trips together multiple times a year, just digesting, processing, praying, thinking, having fun together. And then I'm constantly updating um James and our staff team on just vision and direction. And when I say vision, I mean it in the most practical sense to paint a clear picture of her preferred future. Yeah, that's what I mean.

SPEAKER_04 18:16

So yeah, 100%. And like you said, it's like a marriage earlier where you said that where you need to be on the same page, you need to communicate. And I heard it said once that communication is good, but clarity is key. And so it seems like documents like this, the North Valley Compass, really provide clarity on what is expected. And sometimes

Coaching Through Misalignment

SPEAKER_04 18:40

coaching calls, coaching meetings are essential to get back onto the same page, and that's really good.

SPEAKER_03 18:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:47

I think one thing that can be really overlooked is the commitment that churches. I think that I don't know if it's due to American society, and this is kind of going off topic, but there's a lot of people who don't wouldn't they don't like committing to a church or to anything, really.

SPEAKER_03 19:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:11

And when you commit to a church, you're willing to stick in there no matter if there's a disagreement at a time. That's really admirable. And I think that's what you know Paul had envisioned for the church. It's like a family.

SPEAKER_02 19:25

Yeah, it is like a family, and you shouldn't just walk out on your family. I think you're right. And you know, so and and when people leave churches, it's kind of like they're leaving a family, and it can be very painful and very difficult because the social fabric of the church is very spiritual too. So there's heart, soul, there's I mean, there's there's a very special deep bond there. And I think that, you know, when believers are moving around to different churches, just try my encouragement is try to leave on the best terms possible and leave for good reasons. And God can draw believers out of one church to go help another church for godly and good noble purposes. And sometimes a believer is in a church for a season, but the church that sits there and just is a consumer uh, you know, to the congregation or to the to the to the church is just there for themselves, and that that's a bummer, you know.

SPEAKER_04 20:22

So And what is the power in committing?

SPEAKER_02 20:26

What do you mean? What's the what's the power in church in commitment? Members making commitments? Yeah. I would say it's ownership. You know, where you where you move the church from being the congregation being spectators to being participants. Yeah. So having shared ownership in it, you know. So like it if if they don't make commitments and then they have no stake in the g in the in the game. So you you you want a church that has deeper commitments, and I think a high culture commitment of a church is is actually very healthy. So because it's like if if if they're on mission, they're they're they're they're gonna make a commitment to what is good and godly and and and gratifying, and making commitments not just to the church, but to like you know, good things, whether it's a community, whether it's like we would ask people to make a commitment to like read the word on a regular basis, like these are things that are gonna just make you grow spiritually. So why we exist as a church is to help gather people to discover truth for life, grow in their journey, and then go out and make a difference in the world. And then back on this North Valley compass just for a moment, I just want to say a couple of things, like just for clarity's sake, like this is again alignment and philosophical, and it obviously has a very strong ministry approach. But like the N for North Valley stands for neighbor, uh neighbor focused mission. We focus on neighborhoods so we can reach as many of the thousands of families moving into the North Phoenix Valley, and then we tie up. Bible verse to that. Matthew 22, 39, you shall love your neighbor as yourself. And so, like if you walked into our office, you know, in the future, um, Lord willing, you'll see these hanging above some of the the uh on the walls, some of these statements. And it just we walk through it, and these are axioms that you that everybody understands. Oh, okay, that's just part of the culture of the church. Like the the O stands for outdoor culture. And it says we embrace God's creation as a place to reach and build relationships, disciple others, and enjoy the beauty of Arizona. And then a Bible verse to that is the heavens declare the glory of God, the sky proclaim proclaims his handiwork. So, and there's a number of them. Uh, and so I I'm not gonna go on and on, but that's that.

SPEAKER_04 22:50

Well, and that's great. I appreciate that. And then I think just to go back to the main point of the question is how do you interact with team members who are not fully committed, having difficult conversations? I think that's what anybody would want in a job where they, you know, maybe are underperforming. If I am committed to my job and I really love it, I would want my boss to pull me aside and say, Hey, we need we expect you to do more here. Yeah, I and same with any relationship, too. In the proverb that's kind of the theme of our class is Proverbs 27 that says, Better is open rebuke than hidden love. And it's the idea of that if we don't share truth, if we don't tell people the truth

Commitment, Membership, And Ownership

SPEAKER_04 23:30

sometimes, then we're hiding our love from them and we don't want to hide our love.

SPEAKER_02 23:33

Yeah, no, I think you're right. I think that again, I think it's you know, having those conversations and then you know, providing the ongoing kind of I I don't want to say like fire hose, but just like a constant drip of of the culture, the vision, the alignment. And you know, everything that we do, we don't we I will say most of the things that we do, I would say, uh, are with deep intentionality. Some things, of course, are reactionary because we're not a perfect church, but many of the things, um most of the things are deeply intentional to build unity and health uh into the church.

SPEAKER_04 24:18

Yeah. That's great. Well, to try to keep this podcast under 35 minutes, we'll just go on to the next question. Uh, very similar. How do you try to coach or how do you coach other leaders to help them grow in their ministry leadership and integrity? So how do you coach leaders to grow in integrity and in their leadership?

SPEAKER_02 24:41

How do we coach leaders to grow in their integrity?

SPEAKER_04 24:45

And in their just their leadership skills in general, because I'm sure people come in and they want to grow.

SPEAKER_02 24:51

Yeah, I would say number one, you gotta lead by example, and and so you know, it's very, very important that you don't either I mean for me specifically, as I understand, like I'll set the pace a lot of times for for guys. So if I'm not in the word and I'm not growing and I'm not working um in a manner that's um helpful, uh then it's a distraction and a disruption. And so I guess the question is how do I help people grow in integrity in their leadership? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:31

Yeah, that's exactly yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:33

I mean the other thing that we do is so one is lead by example. That's the most important influential thing I think anybody can do is you set the example to for what it looks like to to be a leader. And so one of that what that looks like is like for me personally, like I will seek out other people for counsel and wisdom in areas that I lack wisdom or lack counsel. So if it's a resource initiative to raise significant capital, if it's a very complex issue, if it's land, if it's buildings, if it's construction, if it's uh pastoral crisis, like I'll call in different counsel to that situation. So I have a long list, yeah, and I'm gonna find it right now. And um, it's called my wise counsel list, and I update this every year um and submit it to the elders, and these are people that I look to um for wisdom and insight into various areas of ministry. And the Bible says, listen to advice, accept instruction that you may gain in wisdom for the future. Where there is no guidance, people fall. Um for by wisdom, guidance uh you can wage war in an abundance of counselors. There is victory.

SPEAKER_04 26:56

Wow, that's good.

SPEAKER_02 26:57

And so, you know, like I've got this long list Trent Renner, Mike Knaves, Rob LeJure, Dr. Robert Rice, Steve Stroop, Bob Lehman, Eric Stanley, Jerry Patton, Randy Deal, Del Hussey, um Larry Osborne, Sandy Mason, John Bisinger, and so on.

unknown 27:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:17

So these are guys that are gonna look to and learn from from time to time, and it's great.

SPEAKER_04 27:24

So that's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

Yeah, and so that that sets an example a little bit. Yeah. And I model that again, lead by example, and I encourage our staff to get wisdom and insight. And then we provide ongoing coaching and support to ensure that they can grow in their leadership. We also what we what we do is we we just say, hey, like if you've got other leaders, uh, you know, and we've got a network of churches in the Vision Arizona Valley, and we would challenge them, all of our staff members, to try to connect and network with the others to grow in their areas.

SPEAKER_04 27:59

So that's good. And I think kind of what I'm hearing is outsourcing is important because no leader can handle everything by themselves, and so it's important to, as a leader, delegate and outsource.

SPEAKER_03 28:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:15

I heard one pastor say that when people come to him asking for counseling,

Equipping Volunteers And Delegation

SPEAKER_04 28:20

he said he'll offer three sessions. And if there's no resolution within three sessions, then he's done.

SPEAKER_02 28:26

Yeah, I'd say that's very fair. I'm more like one, one and done. Yeah. Because I I mean, usually I'm like in one meeting, I can be like, hey, okay, I understand. And sure, I was I it might be a couple, but generally speaking, yeah, it's like one or two, and then I'm good. And then I'm like, you know what, you need some different help from this person, or you know what? I think you're good, man. Let's just check in in six months.

SPEAKER_04 28:53

Yeah, that's good. So what areas of coaching do you find that people really seek at church? Like, is there certain areas in which right now you feel like at North Valley a lot of people are seeking wisdom in this area or that area they want to grow in what sense?

SPEAKER_02 29:17

Um I mean, I don't know. I mean, off the top of my head, it's been young married couples over the last several weeks, you know, and we've seen in America, all across the nation, a surge of young people coming into the church. And I think there's this hunger and thirst for more truth and like back to the word. And and so I think that, you know, I mean, that and we made some efforts to hire younger staff here recently. And you're an example of getting you on the team with the youth. And then we hired Pastor Parker. He's in his, I think he's in his, well, he's probably 30. Yeah, he's he's young. P Lane. P Lane. Is that what you call him?

SPEAKER_04 29:57

That's what they call him.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

P Lane, yeah. Parker Lane. And so, you know, it's nasty dog Nate. Nasty dog Nate. Wow. Okay, who's that?

SPEAKER_04 30:07

Who do you think that is?

SPEAKER_02 30:08

Nate Estrate. Oh my gosh, that's funny. Well, I'm not gonna tell him you called him nasty dog Nate. I'm sure he's gonna be thrilled about that.

SPEAKER_04 30:17

That's it. Hey, he knows he's proud of that one. He is he'll wear it on his chest.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

Uh, we'll leave that where it is. But I don't I don't know. So uh did I answer your question? Yes. What was it?

SPEAKER_04 30:30

Yeah, what areas do you see people really desiring leadership and growth right now?

SPEAKER_02 30:36

Yeah. I mean, I think basic apologetics as a Christian faith, and prov I you know, I might my prayer is that the Bible teachings providing a little more in-depth. I mean, we've shifted away from putting screen uh scriptures on the screens, challenging people to open their Bibles, open their hearts, and you know, challenging younger people to buy their own Bibles, you know, to get after it and to take ownership. And again, this all falls in line with that commitment culture. It's like, stop pretending, and we don't we're not here to produce consumers. We want to help you follow Jesus and take next steps in Christian maturity. And so um, you need to be able to feed yourself, you need to be able to like grow yourself by you know getting into God's word and growing in your own faith and your journey.

SPEAKER_04 31:30

That's great, that's awesome. And it's really cool because I think that there's a lot of people at North Valley who do desire more and they're hungry, and I think too, just looking at the staff team and people around the staff, there's people who want to do ministry and be involved and serve and you know, be helpful in any way that they can. It and it's not easy when you work a full-time job, and so outside of ministry, you know, we have those people too who are super committed and involved. I think about like the uh men leaders for uh our men's ministry on Tuesday mornings, Better Man. We have a lot of committed leaders there, we have committed guest services people and committed kids' ministry, and so it's really cool to see those people who want to commit and grow, the marriage class that people are interested in, yeah, all the other ministries that people are looking into starting, and so that's really special.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

Yeah, and I and I think you know, like with calling for high commitments, it creates a high ownership, and so pee it's not the pastor's church, it's it's our church, you know. It's it's really his church. Jesus is the head of the church, and then maybe I serve in a uh older brother kind of role there, um, but we're all brothers and sisters in Christ, uh, through Christ in serving our Heavenly Father. Jesus is the ultimate, he's the eldest brother, bit the biblically, theologically, and God is the father. And so there is this need, everybody needs to pull their weight, everybody needs to to do it, and there's uh a shared ownership that happens when more people do ministry, and that's why you know the Ephesians passage is that's what we instill into our staff as well. Like our job is to equip saints for the work of ministry, and so that means every volunteer. So if we're if we're doing as a staff what uh volunteers can do, then we're kind of robbing the opportunity to somebody uh to do that job. And you know, churches thrive and build on volunteers uh that are a part of a dynamic team and they thrive when staff are leading those uh teams really well.

SPEAKER_04 33:58

Yeah, I think I realized that just last week we had a guy step up and we asked him to lead the stage game that we do in youth, and he had never done it before, but he'd been serving in youth for probably two or three months now, and he stepped up there and led the best stage game we had ever seen. It was so incredible.

SPEAKER_02 34:18

Yeah, and I mean that's called you know, just a little bit of delegation and some, you know, and that's great because you you spread the load out and then you give opportunities for people to shine and connect and use their gifts. So I mean, that's wonderful.

SPEAKER_04 34:33

That's right. Well, that's all the questions that we have for today. Thank you so much for answering them.

SPEAKER_02 34:39

Wow, that was it.

SPEAKER_04 34:41

That's it. That's good, dude. 33 minutes, 34 minutes.

SPEAKER_02 34:45

All right, guys. Well, man, well, I have some questions for you.

SPEAKER_04 34:48

Okay.

Young Leaders, Apologetics, And Bible Habits

SPEAKER_02 34:51

Um, I have uh you have to you have to just now you have to just uh get ready to answer it. So you're about to get married. So what have you done to protect your singlehood and keep a I'm gonna say two things passion for Christ and purity with your future bride? Yeah, it's this is this is total on the spot.

SPEAKER_04 35:21

Total on bro, what the what what the dude I can't believe. Oh, sorry guys.

SPEAKER_01 35:33

This is the rough cut version. Okay, so what what yeah, what have what have you done?

SPEAKER_04 35:38

Yeah, I it's been that's a really good question. So, first of all, pursuing Christ, a passion for Christ. I have created commitments that I have to do. Uh, and I think that is just one of the best things uh in pursuing Jesus. I'm a life leader at GCU. I am committed to leading a Bible study every single week. We went through Philippians first semester. Over 17 weeks, we went through the entire book of Philippians, only five or six chapters. It's it's really small book. And so we did that first semester, and then second semester, we've been going through the gospel of John, and that's been incredible. But besides that, personally, I like to make sure that I am first of all, one uh being accountable to at least one or two brothers in Christ. I need guys that know everything about me and know what I do, who I am, what I struggle with. So I have those guys, and uh, we typically talk or meet multiple times a week, and so that's been really helpful uh in pursuing Christ. And then also just getting into God's word, I would say minimum four times a week. That's what I do minimum.

SPEAKER_01 37:01

That's good.

SPEAKER_04 37:02

Yeah, it's good, and that's the number, but more than a number, it's just extremely beneficial for my soul, right? And I had a guy tell me one time when I was in Colorado, we were talking in the boat when we were whitewater rafting, and he told me, you know, I like to do he he was talking, we were talking about daily devotionals and quiet times, and he said, you know, it's not always the most uh you like you would say, it's not all it was the quiet times are not always the most um amazing, but it's always beneficial. It's always beneficial, even if I don't feel it. God is speaking to me through his word, he's touching the my soul into the deepest most parts of me. I'm reading truth generational, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:51

You know, and so timeless truth. So who is that guy?

SPEAKER_04 37:55

His name is Adam.

SPEAKER_02 37:57

Oh, okay. I thought you were gonna say it was you, Dad.

SPEAKER_04 38:00

Oh that would have been cool.

SPEAKER_01 38:06

Yeah, that's okay.

SPEAKER_04 38:07

I'm glad you said very similar stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:09

I'm sure. So, well, that's good. I mean, I think uh, you know, we've we've touched on this before a number of times in the podcast where I've talked about you know that you just need to have a you know a daily intake to God's word, you know. I mean, you think I can't remember what it was. I did the research a while ago. It was like hundreds of hours that people log, you know, in a given month of like TV or whatever. And then like you look at that same month for the average Christian, and it's like less than like 30 minutes, 40, like an hour.

SPEAKER_04 38:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:47

And so it's like, okay, so you're you're you're injecting into your head like a hundred plus hours of media and then like one hour of like Bible in a given month. Like, of course, your brain is not sanctified as much as it ought to be. Because you have downloaded way too much garbage or just stuff that may be good, but it's not great, it's not gold, it's not godly. Or so or just anyway, so I think that's that's a good word.

SPEAKER_04 39:18

Yeah, yeah, I that's a whole nother topic, but it is so true that even me, while I, you know, try to get into God's word four times a week or more, uh, it's so easy just to consume so much crap, you know, just through social media.

SPEAKER_02 39:37

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It is easy. So, well, I'm proud of you, Sam. Really, really proud of you. And you're doing a great job. And I'm glad that I could answer questions today. And I think you've done a fantastic job in your singlehood and navigated through, and you haven't lived a perfect life by any means. And uh God has rewarded your faithfulness, though, with a wonderful girl. And I know we've I've got another daughter, uh Riley. She's getting uh married as well, and to a great, godly, good young man, and couldn't be prouder of you guys. So thanks, Chad. It's really, really cool.

SPEAKER_04 40:21

Yeah, and to add on to that, one other thing that's been really, really awesome in pursuing marriage and just pursuing God in that is been wise counsel and uh premarital counseling. So as soon as I started dating Annie, I of course was always in touch with my accountability partners, or some people call them fighting partners, but I call them accountability partners. So, and they're like my best friends at the same time, so it serves as a double purpose. But they uh as soon as I started dating Annie, I had a guy, Ed Black at North Valley, reach out to me and he wanted to get coffee and just give me advice and answer any questions that I had, and we had great conversations, and so that served as a uh as principles for me going into the relationship, served all the way up until engagement, and then it's and I've met I met with him once or twice while we were dating. We dated for about a year, and then once we got engaged, we started premarital counseling with Ed and Nita, so couples premarital counseling, and that has still served as such a resource in our engagement period, and we're we have one last session, and then uh we'll wrap up our premarital

Personal Holiness, Accountability, And Marriage Prep

SPEAKER_04 41:41

counseling, but they have had such good knowledge and wisdom for us, and so we're really excited for that going into marriage as well, and then also hearing stories from people of things that didn't go well in their marriages have been really helpful. I think you know, my mom and dad have been really great. We've been we've been good examples in many, no, in many, in all ways, telling me good, bad, ugly, beautiful knowledge in all those areas.

SPEAKER_02 42:11

I set you up pretty bad there, but yeah, you're all over the place on the audio thing. I'm like trying to like if you're like going crazy listening to the audio because you're like, what is going on? First of all, you have an amateur running a board, then you like Sam is like a like multi multi multi-amateur.

SPEAKER_01 42:32

Yeah, no, like oh there's an up and down with pitches and close and not close, and so this is what ADHD does to you, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:40

ADHD. And so uh no, but it just sounded like you were about to say basically, and I learned not what to do by watching my parents.

SPEAKER_04 42:51

That's what that's what it felt like. Well, I say you guys have been very open and honest about hardships in marriage, and that's really beneficial. I the guy who started Better Man said, I don't want to learn from old men who tell me what to do. I want to learn from old men who tell me where they've messed up. Yeah. And so I think there that's a really good truth of being honest and open about what is hard in marriage and what's good.

SPEAKER_02 43:19

So well, that's good. I'm glad we could teach you through our pain. Yeah. No, well, I mean, we made a lot of mistakes, and and um, you know, it's it's good to for me to see the extended church, you know, reach out. And one of the things, I mean, we've gone through adversity as a church, and it's not been a perfect church, and we've had our hardships and challenges and setbacks and and all that. And what's really been really cool though is like you guys have grown tremendously as a result, I think, of a good, good, healthy congregation. And so it's like part of the success, I would say, of us. Like seeing you guys grow in your faith is obviously God God is is the one who's growing you, but you know, parents do get a lot of credit. But I would say thank you. You know, it's not easy being a good parent and doing the best you can. But it's also great to be a part of a great church because a great church can help build a strong family. So anyway, I I really appreciate the congregation, Ed Black, the Elders, Steve Sutton, Lee Swartz and Trooper, um, all these guys over the years have done just such a fantastic job, you know, all of our staff too. So anyway.

SPEAKER_04 44:39

Yeah. No, I'm very thankful, very blessed. And I just, yeah, I'm really excited for this next season. And so it's uh really awesome seeing what God's been doing.

SPEAKER_02 44:52

Cool. Well, thanks, Sam, for for uh joining in on the program today. And those of you that are listening in, uh, as a reminder, um, you've been listening to Real Life Ministry. If you like what you hear, make sure you share it with a friend. Uh, you can visit us at reallifeministry.us online. And then um, we're on most of the podcasting platforms. Should be dropping podcasts about every Friday around midnight. And uh yeah, it's always good to be a part. And if you last but not least, if you are still interested in the Israel tour, you can visit us online at reallifeministry.us, scroll down to the bottom of the page. There's a 10-day Holy Land tour that I'm leading. My wife is scheduled to be a part of that as well, and we'll be leading that in September 2026, and want to invite you to be a part of that. You the whole we're gonna follow in the footsteps of Jesus. It's gonna be like the fifth gospel. You have Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. This will be like experiencing like the gospel in a whole new fresh light of walking through all the places and spaces where Jesus was. It'll be amazing. So if you haven't been there, I want to encourage you to be there. And uh, if you're worried about the safety of your trip, don't worry. We don't run trips unless it's safe. And uh we have a lot of good workers and people in Israel. And this tour company, Signature Tour, has been doing it for more than 30 plus years, and uh, it's gonna be not just uh a trip, it's a pilgrimage. It is a special, sacred experience that will change your faith for the good. It builds unbelievable depth because you see the geological spaces and places where Jesus was and uh life-changing events. So hope that you can join us in September 2026. Uh, when it fills up, it is full. So I'm sorry, Sam, I can't take you on this one unless something changes. But uh, I will definitely be sure to have you come along at one of these journeys.

SPEAKER_04 47:10

One of these journeys. I want to experience the fifth gospel.

SPEAKER_02 47:13

You want to experience the fifth gospel. Uh, that's cool. All right, guys. Well, thanks for being a part of Real Life Ministry. Sam, thanks again for joining us.

SPEAKER_04 47:21

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_02 47:22

All right, till next time, guys. Remember, live free and live strong.

SPEAKER_00 47:30

Thank you for listening to Real Life Ministry. If you found any of what you heard today helpful, please share it with others who may benefit. And if you would like to support the content that we put out, please consider making a donation at reallifeministry.us. While you're there, check out some of our episodes. And together, let's continue to educate and encourage Christians to live free and live strong.