The Climate Resilience Podcast revisited - Highlights from 2025

We’re on a mission to tackle the big climate resilience topics head-on. Over the last 23 episodes, Phil and our inspirational line-up of guests have explored the stories, strategies, and thought leaders driving real climate resilience - one episode at a time.

In this special episode, relive some of our best bits from last year, including conversations with Guy Singh-Watson, Founder of Riverford Organic Farmers, Rob Gardner, CEO and Co-Founder of Rebalance Earth and Dr Emily Wallace, Met Office Fellow in Weather & Climate Extremes. 

Whether you’re new to the show or a long-time listener, this is a great way to catch up on key ideas and insights you might have missed — or simply to reflect on them in a new way.

Thank you for listening to this episode. 

For any comments, questions or insights please contact phil.emonson@jbaconsulting.com.

Visit our website jbaconsulting.com
or follow us on LinkedIn JBA Consulting | LinkedIn

Transcript

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SPEAKER_09 0:03

Hello and welcome to the Climate Resilience Podcast brought to you by JBA Consulting. I'm Phil Emundsen, and in this podcast series we unpick some of the complexities, challenges and opportunities on the topic of climate resilience with some inspirational thought leaders. Whether you're working on local adaptation projects, planning for climate risk, or simply looking for hope backed by science, you're in the right place. If you enjoy these conversations, be sure to follow the podcast and subscribe wherever you listen. Share with your friends and colleagues too. Anyone interested in building a more resilient future. Now, let's jump into today's episode.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Hello, I'm Laura, one of the producers of the Climate Resilience Podcast. Thanks for tuning in. Today we're bringing you something a little different, a highlights episode, featuring clips from some of our most insightful conversations. So whether you're new to the show or a longtime listener, this is a great way to catch up on key ideas and conversations you might have missed, or simply to reflect on them in a new way. So let's jump in and relive some of the best bits of the Climate Resilience podcast so far. First up, we're going to hear from Kat Cornfield, social equity senior advisor at the Environment Agency, and Lucy Formoy, JBA's Social Value and Engagement Lead, exploring the critical role of social value in building whole society resilience to climate change, from episode seven.

SPEAKER_10 1:31

Well, really, social value aims to not only bring the short-term benefits, but it brings those lasting changes as well. And we know that resilience is also a long-term strategy, don't we? So, and from the Environment Agency's perspective, our climate ambition is to be a nature, a nation ready for and resilient to climate change. And delivery of this isn't just about the number of properties we we can protect through the work that we do. It's about the schemes and the projects that deliver better and more integrated outcomes. It's about outcomes that allow the whole of society to become more aware of their risk, be able to adapt and have capacity to respond and recover more effectively. And it's about outcomes that seek to enhance social capital, human capital, natural capital, and the resilience of our assets and infrastructure and our systems. So the social value we can deliver on projects can hugely support this through the creation of lasting and wider benefits. And these benefits are rooted in a sense of place, so very much focused on the individual areas and communities that we live in, but also crucially with equity in mind. So one of the most important things to note here is that by ensuring we listen to the needs of all the members of our communities, and particularly those people who have the smallest voices, and by you know supporting people to release the blockers that will enable them to become more resilient, we can contribute to a more equitable society and generate better outcomes for people and nature. So yeah, there's they're very, very closely linked, I think, resilience and social value.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

Yeah, and I think um just picking up on your point, Kat, around being rooted in that sense of place and really kind of you know responding to what that community needs. Um I think it really highlights the importance of um getting a good local and needs assessment to build a picture of um what you know what that community actually needs. So um so this would be kind of collecting there, you know, things like demographics information, existing social networks, um, understanding what organizations are operating in that place. Um and I think when we can really get under the skin of what that, you know, what is that community really needs, um, that's when we can deliver real social value and resilience as well. Um and I think you know, we can use our social value activities as a tool for increasing resilience if done properly, and if it's what that community needs, um, and if you're working with those existing networks and groups within that community that you will have highlighted through your local needs assessment.

SPEAKER_10 4:48

Yeah, and you know, if we're talking about what the community needs, we know that you know, not everybody is the same, not everybody's equal. Um, we know that um the poorest people in society are more affected by the effects of climate change. So if we talk about um social equity and a just transition, um we should be working with communities and groups who need it the most and ensure that the whole of society um is resilient to climate change. Um, and in our industry, you know, we've got this great opportunity, haven't we, to create a fairer transition to the changing climate and you know, to the changing net zero uh goals as well. And in the EA, we have been we've been developing our sustainability strategy um with a group of fair transition champions. Um these are staff volunteers from within our organisation who uh can share lived experiences and perspectives from a range of uh their communities. Um and their insights have really helped us be able to develop a practical understanding of what we can achieve through social value to support resilience within the communities. So we really, you know, we can really target some of our social value interventions based on that lived experience from those fair transition champions. So I think that's a really key thing is ensuring that the communities have their voice and have their say.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

In this next clip from episode 10, Phil is joined by Claire Francis, area flood and coastal risk manager for the Environment Agency, Solent and South Downs, along with JBA's Richard Chubb, Associate Director, and Alec Dane, chartered civil engineer. Together they explore the shift towards greater shared responsibility and the role the whole of society has to play in safeguarding people from the impacts of our changing climate.

SPEAKER_09 6:57

What are some of the shifts and big shifts that you think are important and you'd like to see in respect of assets and resilience?

SPEAKER_02 7:05

Thanks, Phil, and really interesting to hear Alec and Richards and your own thoughts, um, particularly around the asset management space. And I completely agree that that investment the investment piece and how things are changing and how we're starting to think differently is definitely recognised as kind of one of the key things, I guess, across the sector that will help us move forward. Um I guess for me personally, if I think about some of the bigger shifts and it's kind of to lift us up out of pure asset management and it's actually mainstreaming resilience and adaptation. And I think we've all used those words in in different ways across this conversation, but really understanding that how we manage risk, how we manage the impact of a changing climate, the changing coast on our kind of communities and places is not just going to be about asset management going forward. You know, that will clearly have been and will continue to be a really important part of flood risk and coastal risk management. Um, but I don't think it can be the whole solution, and we need to start looking at those things much more in combination. So again, pointing back to the national SEOM strategy and just thinking of its vision statement, which is a nation ready for and resilient to flooding and coastal change today, tomorrow into the year 2100. We really need to start future-proofing some of our kind of decision making, some of our planning, and thinking about how do we do that, taking into account the challenges that we know we've got and the role that actually a lot of people need to play in that. That's not just one organisation can't make a place resilient. That's that's kind of uh you know, public organisations, private organisations, businesses, communities, local places, local government. There's plenty of kind of work needing to be done to bring all of those strands together. So you mentioned some of those forms of resilience, Phil, and you know, thinking about warning and forming, how do we increase the reach? How do we increase the understanding? How do we make that data more accessible? And there's been some really great things that have done. There's there's a lot more information out there now uh around kind of flood risk, what's happening with water levels, gov.uk is a is a great place to find some of that information. And it's really, I guess, opening up that conversation so we're all much more comfortable talking about um what flood risk means, how do we how do we live with some of those changes? How do we adapt to what might be coming in the future? And how do we how do we think a little bit differently around it? And and again, that's how do we prepare for what's coming? How do we minimize the impact? So when flooding does happen, and and as the data, some of the data we've talked about, it shows it it will keep happening and it will increasingly happen. So, how do we how do we make the impact of that less um and how do we recover quicker? So some of the the kind of the phrases we use around building back better, better building back better. Sorry, how do we learn from what's gone before and how do we enhance our ability to adapt to when it comes again? Um, and again, we've talked about adaptation, and I think Alec mentioned adaptation strategies um particularly and some of the kind of innovation that the sector is doing around that, and that's that's not necessarily delivering a solution or an asset now that will be fit for purpose for a hundred years, which is probably the more traditional way that we've talked about protection and flood defences. But how do we understand what is appropriate and proportionate now that helps with that investment conversation? But also at what point and how do we understand what might need to change in the future? And how do we design some of those approaches? How do we increase education awareness, the kind of the ability for the wider society to get involved in flood risk management? How do we bring other voices into the conversation? So this isn't just um, I guess, infrastructure delivery at its core, this is around how people respond to climate change, how do our environment and communities kind of work together to understand what that looks like? And there's some really exciting research happening in that space. Um, we've certainly got the Flood and Coastal Resilience Innovation Programme, which is delivering some some great projects at the moment to try and test some of those theories and to develop that learning so we can embed that more widely. Um, and that it's it's around just I guess accepting change and taking the opportunities that that's also gonna bring for us. So, yeah, for me, asset management is really important, um, but we need to put some of those those other aspects with it too, because we we won't get there, I think, unless we we do it together.

SPEAKER_09 11:25

Um Richard, I was gonna say, did you want to come in there?

SPEAKER_05 11:28

Yeah, I I I some really, really uh excellent insights, uh Claire. And I think one of the things that you you mentioned a number of times, and I think is so important, and and and the other podcasts have definitely covered this, but community engagement and and getting the message out there, uh a clear message, I suppose, around uh what the what the the issues are, um what our choices are um and what are what our approach is to solving them. And it yeah, it goes way beyond asset management. Um it needs to be a fully integrated uh policy. So uh making that clear. And then ultimately it comes down to some difficult decisions that need to be made at the right time, need to be communicated, engaged upon at the right time, but ultimately uh giving a clear a clear plan of of how we move forward to to create more resilience um across our asset base and the communities that are being protected by it and all the services that go in between. So, yeah, uh it does come back to uh engagement and communication, and getting that absolutely right. That's going to be so important in the next 10, 20 years as we start to have to make some, as we have been doing, but but more so some key decisions and and and and and show uh the the the the pathway forward clearly. Uh so I yeah, just wanted to sort of bring that back to um in what in what Claire just rung a bell with what Claire was saying to me.

SPEAKER_09 12:58

Yeah, yeah, thanks, thanks Richard and Claire. You used the phrase mainstreaming resilience, and I think that's a that's a great sort of place to end, really, because resilience isn't and shouldn't be um uh a synonym for what we have done before. Things are changing, there is a case for change, and and that's in the language and the engagement that we that we undertake, as you alluded to, Richard, but also how we integrate across our various disciplines.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

Next up, we hear from one of the UK's most influential voices in ethical agriculture, Guy Singh Watson, founder and CEO of Riverford Organic Farmers, in this inspirational clip from episode 14. So, what gives you hope?

SPEAKER_06 13:45

Um, well, nothing much around the climate. I mean, I'm not people who think, you know, get excited that we'll be able to grow grapes in this country. And well, I mean, I have planted wool nuts and hazelnuts and so on. So I suppose that is in prediction of climate change. But um the biggest, I don't think really we don't know what to expect, but we know that there are going to be more extremes and there's gonna be more unpredictability. And when it comes to farming, there's nothing good in that, I'm afraid. So, you know, the reality of the situation that we face doesn't give me much hope. Our you know, wisdom and willingness to deal with the challenges and make the intelligent decisions, uh, you know, when we look at it collectively, whether a national level or an international level is, you know, severely lacking. So I don't have much hope there either. I mean, the public give me hope. I mean, that but the public, all the research I read, really want to see change that and they are prepared to make some sacrifices for that change, but they desperately need some leadership for that to actually happen. And again, I'm afraid that is lacking. So I think we're being failed by our institutions, really.

SPEAKER_09 15:00

So, guy, you've used the phrase uh adaptation there a few times, uh, and adaptation goes hand in hand with with resilience. Um, we we talk about how they are interchangeable a lot at JBA and and rely on each other. We can't build resilient, um, you know, resilient communities or resilient farms or resilient landscapes unless we adapt. And we need to see those adaptations at uh at a policy level, at a leadership level, in a community level as as well. And and so, in the context of adaptation, then I'm really interested in how we can build and create climate resilience landscapes. Um, so how do you think farms can work together to create benefit and resilience beyond their own individual holding or boundary?

SPEAKER_06 15:53

Uh I think being able to share best practice and what is recognized as best practice is definitely evolving. Um, but being able to learn from your neighbours um is can help you to be a better farmer and uh can help you to be a happier farmer. I think there is a sort of mental resilience as well that one can be easily dragged down by um, especially when you're in the fields on your own a lot by by what's happening and the challenges of farming and the challenges more broadly facing our planet. And I I think working together and at least being able to share that is is very important. So I did actually found a cooperative 25 years ago of organic growers in in South Devon, which I think has been uh you know tremendously sort of helpful. And I think probably the actual mutual support is in some ways uh the most important part of it. And then more recently, I have uh on the farm where my wife and I live now, we have essentially made it into a collective. So there are there are about eight businesses here working quite closely together, working in their own very specialized fields. And I think that works well. I guess more broadly, I mean, clusters, you know, we're being encouraged to form farm clusters to work on things like you know, catchment-sensitive farming and and and so on. Um and provide, you know, to produce wildlife corridors. There's a project in our valley to introduce beavers, which is so far um, you know, which you have to get everyone on board with. Not everyone is, some people are quite concerned about it. I've just started a project to put some uh large wooden turbines up on a ridge that would be working with a couple of neighbors and actually working with the whole community, and the energy would be sold into a local energy users club, you know, what's not used by Riverford. Um, so yeah, you know, I'm I'm a big fan of working together in all sorts of ways. Um and I really want to live in a collective world where people cooperate rather than the idea that we, you know, that we're always competing with each other. Um I don't think has served farmers very well.

SPEAKER_09 18:10

I again collaboration working together is a is a very common theme from from guests on the on the podcast. Uh thinking about this a little bit more. Um, I was listening to your Desert Island Discs episode that you did. Uh it was from a few years ago now. This is 2018, I think something like that. But in it, you spoke about how you um obviously you you you're you're unable to grow tomatoes sort of all year round, and and you you import them, I think, from from Spain. Um so in in terms of sort of that in more international collaboration, different practices, how how do you go about that? And what what have you learned from more sort of further afield collaboration?

SPEAKER_06 18:54

Um, well, I am a pragmatist. I mean, I would I would love it if we were all happy to eat, you know, seasonal whatever's in season. Yeah. Um, but I that's just not going to happen. I mean, we could eat a lot more seasonally than we do, but uh I just wouldn't have a business if we didn't have tomatoes available at least most of the time. Uh and the the season in the UK without using fossil heat in greenhouses, which in most cases means burning fossil fuels, is about 10 weeks if you're lucky, sometimes only eight. Uh so the rest of the year we are importing from Spain, from Andalusia, for instance, for and there are a couple of tomato growers down there who we've been working with for 20 years. And similarly, at the moment, we've got a lot of stone fruit coming in from um mostly from northern Spain. Actually, so we do have a group of about 30 growers, mostly from Spain and Italy and southern France, uh, who allow us to maintain a reasonable variety of vegetables um in our boxes um throughout the year.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

This next clip is from episode 15, where Phil was joined by Rob Gardiner, CEO and co-founder of Rebalance Earth, for an inspiring conversation about the power and potential of nature-based solutions.

SPEAKER_07 20:20

So, you know, I the bulk of my career has really been around pensions, which is you know, how do we save money today to make sure we have enough money when we retire, right? It's a it's the ultimate in long-term thinking that you know, when you're 25, you put away a little bit of money so that when you're 65 or 70, you you have enough to retire on. So it requires a completely different long-term mindset of 40, 50 years, which is very difficult, different to political time cycles and very different to company time cycles that are typically all about quarterly and annual results. So there's a sort of mindset philosophical approach. The second point is that pension fund capital has been used to fund a lot of infrastructure around the world. So, you know, the M6 toll road was actually funded by Australian pension funds. Uh and, you know, when I was a pension fund consultant, uh I was involved back in 2010 in the early days of renewables and getting pension funds to invest in offshore wind and solar panels, which has you know been a key part of the energy transition. And so I think this long-term pool of money is an important building block in terms of like how do we transition to this kind of more resilient country that we all want to talk about. And the the second point in terms of why now is a lot of these pension funds, despite the political discourse coming from you know the US of being anti climate change, anti ESG, they are increasingly aware that climate change and nature loss is a clear and present danger in a tangible time horizon. So let me just give a couple. Of just hard hitting sort of facts and figures, just as a bit of a wake-up call. So the first is the Institute and Faculty of Actories. So these are the people who guess you know who figure out how long people will live and help calculate insurance and all the rest. Have done some research and analysis, and they think up to 25% of global GDP is at risk in the next 25 years. Now I started my career 25 years ago, and so you know the next 25 years in the context of a pension fund is around the corner. And just as 25% of GDP, uh to put that in context, in the global financial crisis, which I live through, you know, GDP fell by about six or seven percent, and that felt terrifying. In COVID, it fell by 11%, but fortunately it sort of bounced back very quickly. So 25% is seriously bad for any investments you're making. It's also bad for the members that you that you're trying to take care of. Linked to that, Naudious, which is the second largest pension fund and asset owner on the planet with you know over a trillion dollars uh invested, uh, looked at the sort of climate models that a lot of people use and said, these are too linear, uh, they're not taking into account tipping points and sort of cascading impacts. And when we do do that, what how much of our US equity portfolio do we think could fall as a result of these? And and they think it's round numbers between 20 to 30 percent. And so once you start thinking about those, and if you're a pension fund trustee or CIO, you've got to say, well, actually, I can't just assume that when I invest in my equities and bonds, the past will be this, the future will be the same as the past. And I need to start thinking forward and go, what if certain scenarios play out and how would I invest differently? And you know, the University of Exeter and United and the University Superannuation Scheme have done some brilliant work on sort of climate scenarios. The so what all your listeners is that these big pools of assets, these you know, 50 billion, 100 billion, up to a trillion dollar asset owners now see climate change and nature risk as systemic financial risks to their portfolios as well as risk to their members, and they want to do something about it. But in order to do something about it, they need to invest. And there's really sort of three things they can do. They can do sort of uh portfolio decarbonization, which is really how do they use their role as shareholders to engage with companies and say, what are you doing about it? And this is where uh stuff like TCFD and TNFD, which forces companies to recognize the both the impacts and risks to their business. The second thing is they can sort of invest in real-world decarbonization, and that you know, historically that's meant investing in renewables, but increasingly they want to invest in portfolio resilience, which is how can they mitigate the risks, uh the climate and nature risks to their portfolio? And the way they like to do that is invest. And so it was with this sort of insight and with this movement that we felt, and having spent my own time as a pension consultant as an asset owner, why not set up a rebalance earth to be a fund manager that invests in nature to provide resilience that positions nature as infrastructure? Because it's probably the easiest way to conceptualize these multiple ecosystem services that Steve and I have been talking about. And crucially, if we can get companies to pay for those valuable ecosystem services, we make it an asset class and we make it investable, and we can start to channel money into it. And so part of our theory of change is if in the UK there's five trillion pounds worth of assets today across all of our pensions and wealth systems, and that will double in the next decade to 10 trillion, what if we could get them to invest just 2%? So just two pounds for every 100 pounds in nature as an asset class. That would be enough to close this funding gap that we need to provide the climate adaptation and the nature resilience that we need here in the UK over the next decade.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

Now, this next clip is a special one. Episode 17, it was a celebration of our 30th anniversary at JBA Consulting. And in this clip, our founder Jeremy Ben reflects on the headlines, highlights, and lessons he's learned along the way while exploring what it truly means for an organization to be resilient.

SPEAKER_08 26:39

Well, 1995 or 1994, when probably uh you know start first started thinking about um uh the original business idea. Um the economy wasn't doing great. Um, we were sort of in the middle of a sort of very minor, uh minor recession. Um but there was a lot of change uh going on, uh also change in in the air. Um I mean just to uh calibrate everyone up to the the mid-1990s, uh like you said, many were either not born or um still at school then. Um there was this thing called the internet, um, but you know, it wasn't being been that widely used. Yeah, email was was was there, but you didn't spend all day you know email. Um uh eBay had just been established, um, but Google didn't come along till 1996. Um but um you could almost sense that that things were uh changing. Um uh geographic information systems, um you know, we knew them, the software was there, um they weren't being widely used, largely because there was there was just no data, you know, you could you could go and buy an Esri license, but what we're gonna use it on? Um you know, digital OS mapping you know cost an absolute fortune. There was there was no LIDAR um or other uh ready uh readily available data sets. Um at the time I was I was working in hydrology and hydraulic modelling. Um and also to set the context there, that wasn't really recognised as a a field or an activity in its own right. Um so consultancies didn't uh didn't have modelling teams. Um consultancy would have say a um a water engineering team, um, and they might need modelling from time to time. Um the highways team might might need it. So where I was working at the time, uh yeah, I was I was employed as a modeler and had a small team, but uh we didn't really have any clients of our own. Uh we were just um getting working internally. Um but uh what we had a sentence is that things you know record and should change, um, and that you know you know modelling will develop into you know a field of its own right, and also that uh we could integrate uh you know modelling with new data sets, particularly you know GIS. Um I mean was it a good time to set up a business otherwise? I don't I don't think there's ever a bad time to to be honest. Um I think you could say, well, if you set up a business when times are tougher, it keeps you focused and um it means you're probably more resilient when uh if if uh if further tough times you know come ahead in the future. So uh so that's a little bit about the background.

SPEAKER_09 29:57

So you were you've been planning this, as you said, since uh since probably '94. And um was there was there a vision? Obviously, you know, JBA we've we've got a very established vision now, but but you know, going back 30 years, was was there something that you that you hoped the vi the you know the the business would become, or was it just a well we we we want to set up a a new business because we see the opportunity and we can see that times are changing, which you know was was there a sort of a longer term aspiration?

SPEAKER_08 30:31

I I don't think we can claim that there was any you know great well thought out uh vision. Um interesting enough, the the the the very basic idea of you know having a dedicated modeling and hydrology team, we actually we be myself and Craig Robson, uh actually presented to our employer at the time, um, who listened very uh politely, but um but uh that they weren't prepared to back it. Uh I remember one comment from uh uh a partner was um a senior outline business plan, you've got one computer per person. And in those days, you know, a decent computer to run a hydraulic model was probably about £7,000. That was that 1995 price. Um and I do remember at the time as well, if they're challenging why everyone in a modelling team needs a computer, I don't think they've quite understood the uh the concept. So I suppose that that prompted us to um to say, well, you know, we still think it's a good idea, so we'll we'll we'll do it ourselves. Um and um um in terms of the vision, as I said, it it was um uh to concentrate on you know environmental modelling and it was to bring together you know GIS you know models uh to have technology at the heart of what we we do and uh and innovation um and to have a focus to um uh I think beyond that uh I think um you know our ideas weren't that that firm or more set.

SPEAKER_01 32:13

And finally, in this clip from episode 21, Dr. Emily Wallace, MetOffice Fellow in Weather and Climate Extremes, shares with us an interesting analogy for the role the MetOffice plays in building climate resilience in the UK.

SPEAKER_09 32:30

Uh perhaps maybe then you could expand and explain a little bit further on the role that the MetOffice plays in in building resilience uh to climate extremes in the UK, perhaps in the context of of some of those that that sort of definition that we've just had there.

SPEAKER_03 32:48

Yeah, so I'd um I'll you use some slightly different wording actually. Um the way I uh what I where I'll start is is asking you to visualize a typewriter walker um and the way in which we're going to keep that typeroate walker safe. Um and the there's I think four aspects really to to that um which kind of um project onto the those uh areas that you've just been talking about. Um often I think when uh when uh climate scientists initially start about start thinking about resilience, they'll often go initially to uh robustness, so insensitivity to um to shocks. Um if you think about our tightrate walker, that might be um the sort of intervention you might think about putting is uh I don't know, a glass tube or a solid tube around that tightrope walker, which will make the tightrate walker insensitive to uh gusts of wind, um, but kind of spoil the point, right? Uh in the in the sort of climate in the metal of this world, this might be about um putting uh flood depend, putting out flood calculating uh resilience uh in terms of robustness, so something like a flood defence. Yeah. Um the other another way that you might think about uh keeping the um tightrope walker safe um could be about um ensuring that tightrope walker is able to um change easily or have flexibility. So in terms of the tightrope walker, this might be about putting a safety line on so that they can climb back onto their tightrope easily and they don't they they don't suffer too much um should should they fall. Um we can't do anything about the uh the weather that we experience, but at the MetOffice uh the type the um safety line uh could be thought of as our weather warning service. So it allows a community to have a response ready to go and so that they can uh so that they can uh protect themselves should should there be um inclement weather. The third way we can keep our tightrope walker safer is perhaps to uh make sure that they have good balance. That would be something that they'd uh they'd hopefully look to do early on. Um the MetOffice, a sort of analogy with the MetOffice is the way in which we use partners and advice to uh support communities ahead of um events. So we work, for example, with the RNLI who provide advice around staying safe in stormy weather at the coast, um, which is an example of making sure that people are ready to face uh problematic situations and respond um with agility and rapidly, uh, it should should there be um a situation to deal with. The fourth type is about adaptability. So again, it might sort of defeat the object for the tightrope walker, they might decide to walk the long way around rather than go over the tightrope. Um whilst that's defeating the object for the tightrope walker, in in a new scenario that that could be quite valuable. So, an analogy with the MetOffice is um we help industry to anticipate uh where hazards might be more likely and just to simply try and avoid them. So, for example, thinking about uh building of new transmission lines um in the energy sector, we're working with the sector to anticipate where hazards are more likely and to uh to um help them just avoid those areas with the infrastructure where they can. Um so there's four types of uh resilience ways in which we can create um resilient systems, um making them robust or sensitive to changes, making them easily changed, flexible, um making them uh rapidly able to change and in improving their adaptability.

SPEAKER_09 36:43

Oh that's that's really interesting. I've been I've just been sort of jotting down some of the key phases there that you've that you've you've mentioned, uh adaptability, ready to respond, um safety, awareness, assessment, um, the use of partners, which we'll come on to. Um but within within that um sort of explanation that you've just given, then it reminded me very much of the the JBA um sort of simplified um framework for resilience to climate change, which is aware, adapt, respond, recover. And I think that's a framework that hopefully all sectors and all practitioners can um relate to, um, and certainly aligns with a lot of those um services and support um processes that the MetOffice have got that you've just been explaining there. And so we've reached the end of our time today. If you've enjoyed the conversation, please hit subscribe so you're ready for our next episode in a month's time. And if you'd like to support the show, consider sharing it with others or leaving a short review wherever you're listening. It really helps more people to discover and enjoy the podcast. Thanks for listening. I'm Phil Emmingson, and you've been listening to the Climate Resilience Podcast brought to you by JBA Consulting.