Are You Feeling Fine Online? How Online Connection, Communication and Support Can Influence Wellbeing

Description 

In this mini episode of A Dose of Wellbeing, Danielle Hunt is joined by Pharmacist Support’s Senior Wellbeing Development Manager, Melissa Cochrane, to explore how being online can influence our wellbeing. 

Together they consider the benefits and drawbacks of social media, messaging apps, online communities and digital communication at work. They discuss practical ways to protect wellbeing online, including managing notifications and screen time, checking information carefully, setting boundaries around work messages and assuming best intentions when tone is unclear. 

The conversation also looks at wellbeing apps, online therapy and the growing use of AI for support, including the importance of evidence, safeguards and knowing when professional help is needed. For pharmacy professionals, students and trainees, the episode also highlights the need to maintain professional standards online. 

Guest bio 

Danielle Hunt is Chief Executive of Pharmacist Support. With extensive charity sector experience, she joined the charity in January 2019 and has led the development and implementation of a wellbeing-focused strategy to ensure Pharmacist Support continues to meet the changing needs of the profession. 

Melissa Cochrane is Pharmacist Support’s Senior Wellbeing Development Manager. She oversees the charity’s wellbeing offering and volunteer programmes, including the counselling partnership and online Wellbeing Learning Platform. Melissa has an extensive background as a counsellor and psychotherapist and a keen interest in simple, evidence-informed practices that can enhance physical and mental health. 

Podcast sponsorship 

No sponsor. 

Resources and references 

Pharmacist Support 

To find out more about support services, please visit our website: https://pharmacistsupport.org/how-we-can-help/ 

Wellbeing Learning Platform: https://pharmacistsupport.clcmoodle.org/local/roadmaplogin/login.php 

Our wellbeing campaigns: https://pharmacistsupport.org/get-involved/our-wellbeing-campaigns/ 

External 

MHRA guidance for people using mental health apps and technologies: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/mhra-issues-new-guidance-for-people-using-mental-health-apps-and-technologies 

GPhC demonstrating professionalism online guidance: https://assets.pharmacyregulation.org/files/2024-11/Demonstrating-professionalism-online-January-2024.pdf   

GPhC and PDA using social media platforms professionally article: https://www.pharmacyregulation.org/about-us/news-and-updates/regulate/using-social-media-platforms-professionally 

Help us to support more of our pharmacy family

Pharmacist Support relies on generous donations to provide our charitable services and support. If you enjoyed our podcast episode today, please consider making a donation so we can continue creating more content to support mental health and wellbeing in pharmacy. Thank you: https://pharmacistsupport.org/support-our-work/donate/

Disclaimer 

The content of this podcast is for information purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional advice, diagnosis, or treatment. The views and opinions expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of Pharmacist Support.

Transcript

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Danielle: 0:11

Welcome back to A Dose of Wellbeing, the podcast from Pharmacist Support. Today, I'm your host, Danielle Hunt, the Chief Executive at Pharmacist Support. And today, I'm really pleased to be speaking with Melissa, our Wellbeing Development Senior Manager here at Pharmacist Support about online wellbeing, how being connected, communicating and accessing support online can influence how we feel. So this is a really interesting topic, Melissa. And keen to get your views on this. So first of all, maybe start off with quite a straightforward question, although the answer might not be straightforward. Is, is being online good or bad for our mental health?

Melissa: 0:48

Yeah, as you probably suspect, it's a nuanced answer. It depends on how we use it, and it depends on how we individually respond to it. So it can be a lifeline for people who are socially isolated. It can help us to keep in touch with people who are physically distant from ourselves. So, you know, friendships, family members who live far away, we can feel much more connected with them than we probably ever could have before in history, when the distances are vast. So I think that's a real positive. For people who live in remote areas or small communities it can be hard sometimes to find like minded people, so it can open up the pool of people that you can have access to. You can find people you connect with. You can find your tribe, if you will, in a way that maybe you couldn't in the past. You might have felt always on the outside, in a way. You can find your people. I think that's really positive. It can really vary depending on how you use it. So those are some of the positives. And of course there are negatives as well.

Danielle: 2:09

‘Course. Yeah. So that all makes complete sense. So let's look at some of the ways we use online and engage and communicate. Social media. Let's start there because that's pretty controversial in terms of what people think about that. And what's your view on how social media impacts our wellbeing?

Melissa: 2:29

Well, I think that connection is essential for, well, wellbeing and social media can be really good for creating connection. It can help us to find lost friends, communicate with peers for professional support, to find like minded people. All of that is really great. However, the negative side, which I think people are probably fairly well acquainted with these days, is that people tend to put out a really curated view of their lives. So you might think that everyone has a better car than you, or goes on better holidays than you, or has a happier family than you do, or whatever. As, you know, cooks better meals than you do. Whatever. I mean it could go on to anything. So we have to be very careful about what we believe about other people's online presence. And, I think what's important to understand about that as well is that we might intellectually understand that, but that doesn't stop that deep initial...

Danielle: 3:38

Yeah Melissa: ...emotional reaction to seeing those things all the time. So I think sometimes education alone isn't quite enough. We can know it, but it doesn't necessarily change how we feel. So there can be times when you do need to really restrict it because it's impacting your mental health. Even if you know that what you're looking at isn't necessarily real. There's also the potential for people to say things online that they just wouldn't in real life. And I'm sure we've all seen this. People can make some quite nasty, judgemental comments, things they would never say to an individual in real life. And this can be really impactful to people. We human beings tend to have a cognitive bias that looks for the negative and remembers it. You might have 50 positive comments, but someone says something negative and that's the one thing you remember. So we are kind of vulnerable to this. And there's a lot of it going online. So that can be really impactful for mental health. Then there's, you know, fake news, AI videos. I see them, like I, on my Instagram feed. I don't even know what’s real anymore, like, half of them are AI and I'm just not interested in it. And it's, I wonder if people are going to start disengaging from that short video format quite quickly now because of AI. I don't think people really want to be engaging with AI that much. But anyway, that, yeah, there's fake news, fake videos, all that stuff. Doomscrolling, you know, the there's the amount of time wasted. It's very easy to get sucked down a rabbit hole and you think an hour later, you know, I'll never get that hour back. What have I been doing? And I think one of the dangers of social media is not necessarily what you see or what you're doing online, but it's what you're not doing when you are on it. So there's the time lost engaging with real people around you, hobbies. I have an allotment. I love getting out there. I definitely have wasted time doing stuff online. And then I think, oh my gosh, the light's almost gone and I've lost my opportunity for that day. So it's about what are we losing as well. Yeah. Melissa: And I think that that's one of the big drawbacks to social media and online lives. And then one thing that really worries me for young people is the effect of watching shorts on attention span. And this bothers me a lot because I see how. Really engaging almost to the point of seeming kind of addicting these shorts can be to young people, and there's research coming out that's really concerning. So there's, it's been in the news lately that this is the first generation ever that is less cognitively capable than their parents. Wow.

Melissa: 7:05

And they think that that is down to shorts and attention spans.

Danielle: 7:09

That's really interesting. Melissa: And that really worries me. So yeah, there are a lot of positives, but there are also a lot of negatives that we need to be really mindful of. That's so concerning. And and that's interesting because there was actually something else. I was reading a piece. It was a head teacher perspective of a primary school and how communication kind of skills were lower in in the younger years and they were trying to understand why. And they put that down to parents potentially being on phones and not, you know, the attention wasn't there, but also children using iPads and there wasn't the engagement, you know, sitting down, having a meal, having a conversation that wasn't happening the same. And that's actually impacting communication skills of our children. So it's like really worrying, I suppose, how it's so easily accessible. It's there all the time. And it, you know, it can have some positives and there are some great things around connection, but we have to be quite careful. But as you said earlier, education's probably not enough. Just knowing about it isn't enough. So is there anything you think we can do to support our wellbeing when using social media?

Melissa: 8:21

Yeah, I think, time restrictions are really important and we can put time restrictions on our own devices. They're not just for kids. A lot of people might not know that you can set up your own, like, you can set it up so that once you've spent half an hour on Instagram, it tells, it tells you to stop. You know, we can do it for ourselves as well as our children. Danielle: That’s interesting. And I think that time restriction, because sometimes just thinking, I'm not going to do this anymore, is not enough. Like you're just relying on willpower then. And these things are designed...

Danielle: 8:59

To keep you engaged. Melissa: ...to keep us engaged Absolutely. Melissa: So we have to kind of fight back. So time restrictions are really good. Thinking about your intention is also really important. So what is your intention in using this platform. So maybe it's to enhance communication but not to not to replace other methods of connecting with people. So you're using it to enhance your connection not to replace your connection. I think those are probably two really important places to start. I think that's really important because there's nothing better than human connection. I think...

Melissa: 9:37

Yeah.

Danielle: 9:38

...in the pandemic told, showed us anything, it was that, you know, it was good to have social media and to be able to stay connected. But we all really missed that human connection, didn't we?

Melissa: 9:48

Absolutely, yeah. Danielle: So it's so important. And I suppose one way people keep connected, particularly with family and friends, is kind of messaging apps like WhatsApp. Yeah.

Danielle: 9:58

You know, they can be great ways to keep in contact with people, see what's going on. But how can messaging apps like WhatsApp kind of impact our wellbeing?

Melissa: 10:07

Well, it's a great way to connect and share. And like everything else, is kind of how you use it. So in some ways it's really good. It can be useful professionally if you use it appropriately. Some people are quite happy to have lots of professional groups in their WhatsApps. I personally like to keep that separate. So, I like to have my professional things separate from my personal. That just helps me. So yeah, being mindful of that and making a decision about how you want it to be used can be really useful. And for employers to be respectful of that, if you don't want things coming into your phone that are work related, because that could potentially encroach on your personal time. For employers to be respectful of that is really good. I think that voice notes can be very useful for people who struggle with reading and writing. So that's another positive thing. Of course we need to be a little bit careful because being in multiple groups can be overwhelming. The notifications can be constant like that is not always a good thing.

Danielle: 11:20

No. And I think, you know, if if you are the parent of children and they're doing multiple social activities, I find it completely overwhelming. And at this point now me and my husband decides who's going to be in that particular group because it can feel overwhelming and it's ticking along and you know, you put your phone away, you pick it up and there's hundreds of notifications. So I personally can find it quite overwhelming. It's a good way, but sometimes you miss things because it's so instant, isn't it? It's quite hard.

Melissa: 11:51

Yeah. Absolutely. And I think there's the other thing about just your attention being constantly pulled by notifications. So, you know, you might be doing a piece of work in your phone. Now, some people I see you've got the watch on like that will be pulling you constantly because if you, if it if it alerts you whenever a text comes in or an email or whatever, like it's just these constant pulls on our attention so that we're not sitting and focusing in the way that maybe we used to. We're doing a bit here, but we're pulled there were pulled there, and I think that can impact the quality of our thinking as well. And I think that's another thing that concerns me is just how often can we get really into an in-depth thought anymore because we're so often pulled out and then you're having to start over again. So I worry sometimes about like the shallowness of thought these days just because of the constant pulls and notifications. Yeah.

Danielle: 12:57

Brill. Melissa: So that’s another one. So you talked before about kind of online opening up potential for people who can find people of similar interests. And sometimes people also use online platforms to kind of connect with people going through similar experiences. What are your thoughts on kind of that approach?

Melissa: 13:19

Well, you know, I feel like I keep saying this, but it is nuanced. It really depends on how you use it. Peer support can be really great. Finding people going through similar experiences, it can be really helpful. You know, these days you can find communities for anything. You can find people going through a similar health issue. You could find people who are from the same place that you're from and, and living in the place that you live and kind of helping each other with those things. So, I think it really depends on what you get out of it. Does it does it net make you feel better? Or does it net make you feel worse? And trying to be aware of that and and moderate your own usage accordingly? Of course, in these groups, you know, moderation, quality varies. You have to be so careful about what you read and what you believe and, yeah.

Danielle: 14:29

That's really, I like the, the net, you know, does it make you feel better? Because it, like I was just as you were talking then thinking about an example of, I suffer with adenomyosis. It's not a well known condition like its sister condition. Endometritis gets a lot of attention. And it's not medically well researched. So there's a lot out there. And I found it incredibly useful to connect with people who are going through similar, ‘cause one, it makes you feel like, I'm not on my own, there’s other people going through this. It helps you maybe understand things you might be feeling, some of the symptoms, but I've also found the negative side to that because I think people put forward what's worked for them and everyone's so different.

Melissa: 15:12

Yeah. Danielle: So people might have had, you know, a negative experience of some, something in terms of like supporting the condition, medication or that's not necessarily going to be your experience. So it can feel quite overwhelming. But I have found it net probably useful. So I suppose that's a really good way to think about it. And I think if you're mindful of that and if it's not serving you anymore, maybe not to be part of that and to just keep it at the top of your mind, I think that would be useful. Absolutely. And maybe thinking about how you're accessing it and if you're getting notifications because you might be out having a brilliant day with your family at the park, or and you get a notification and you look at it and you're seeing someone's sad story, that's not the time for that. It pulls you into a feeling of sadness. Negativity is reminding you of something that's painful for you. At a time when you were just having a really nice time. I’ve seen this happen with my children as well, and I really want to teach them, control when these things come to you.

Danielle: 16:22

Yeah.

Melissa: 16:22

Don't allow these notifications all the time because you need protected head space to just be happy and enjoy things and not be, not have your mind and your head space constantly pulled to somewhere else.

Danielle: 16:38

Yeah. Melissa: Yeah. And taking that more to kind of a work environment because that made me think about emails. I don't have email notifications on. Because I decide, right, I'm going to look at emails and that's a dedicated time. And I find that really useful. But remote working has kind of increased significantly in our habits. And, and how work encroaches on our life is very different now.

Melissa: 17:02

Yeah.

Danielle: 17:04

And you know, a lot of pharmacist roles are still face to face, but there are pharmacists who have hybrid roles, homeworking roles. And those roles are just generally more common now, aren’t they? And I feel like because of that, you know, the main way we communicate, as I just mentioned, is emails, there’s teams notifications, there might be WhatsApp groups, because sometimes people do set up like work related WhatsApp groups. So how do we manage that shift? That's quite a big shift for us and kind of communication and kind of that encroaching on our home life. How do we manage that if we are facing kind of difficulties?

Melissa: 17:45

I, I think it's a tricky one. I think the workplace, since Covid has really changed. So if we think about Pharmacist Support, pre-Covid it was a 9 to 5 office. You know, you showed up, you went to work, you finished your day, you turned off your computer, you went home. Since Covid, we work in a hybrid manner. We have laptops at home. A lot of us work from home a lot more now. There are huge benefits to that for work life balance, for mental health, environmentally, in terms of finance, because you're not paying to commute so much. I mean, there are really massive benefits. However, it also means that it's really easy

to be making dinner at 6: 18:36

30 p.m. and think, oh, I'm just going to see if I've had a reply to that email. Well, why? Why are you doing that? You know, if you'd left your computer at work, you wouldn't be thinking that way. So we have to be really mindful now in a way that we maybe didn't in the past, not to let these things encroach on our lives anymore. And then there is this thing about presenteeism. So if I log in tomorrow morning at nine in the morning and I see that one of my colleagues was emailing at 7, 8pm, that might make me feel like, oh, am I going to be judged by my workplace for not working as long of hours? Am I likely to get that promotion? Do I need to show up a bit more? Do I need to work a bit longer because everyone can see the hours that you're doing it. So I think workplaces need to be really careful to address this and to let people know, what the expectations are and that they're not expected to be doing this all the time. In fact, the opposite. You know, I know we at Pharmacist Support worked really hard on that. Another issue that can come up with so much online working is the lack of facial and body language cues, which can help people to really understand intent. So we don't have a lot of cues about intent when it's online. So if you have somebody who's really busy and just says your name like, Melissa, please can you get this to me ASAP? Thanks. Whatever. I might read that and think, oh my gosh, she's really annoyed with me because maybe she wanted it yesterday and I haven't done it yet. I didn't realise it was that urgent. Whereas the person who sent it, they might just be busy. Their intention is just to fire off a quick email, but in my mind that can turn into something really huge.

Danielle: 20:50

Yeah.

Melissa: 20:51

So we have these things that can cause personality clashes in the workplace, can make people feel bad. The other person might not even know what's going on. So I know that we have done some work as a team about assuming best intentions and really trying to assume people's best intentions in their emails, rather than letting ourselves go off into these sort of areas of fantasy where maybe we're imagining worst case scenarios. So, I think that this is a really important thing to do in the workplace, because there are a lot of, there's a lot of scope for misunderstandings.

Danielle: 21:34

Yeah. And I do feel since we've gone more remote, you know, the more professional online networks are growing and, and that’s a way of connection. Is there anything that kind of pharmacists, trainees, students, need to think about when using things like social media, given the role that they do.

Melissa: 21:54

Yeah. I think professionalism is really important. And for students and trainees, kind of understanding that straight away can be really important. So making sure that anything that is public is professional. Or at least doesn't, is not controversial. A lot of people don't realise the impact of things that maybe they said 15 years ago. You know, it's just being aware of, of those things. The PDA and the GPhC warn that pharmacists need to think carefully about what they post publicly, because this there have been implications with fitness to practise investigations. So just having awareness of that, and both the GPhC and the PDA do have guides that professionals can read to help with this.

Danielle: 22:53

Yeah, that's really useful. So just thinking about how we kind of protect our wellbeing, I'm guessing technology plays a role there as well. And online there's lots of great resources and things out there, I suppose. And there's lots of apps. I mean, if what about using apps to improve our wellbeing? What are your views on that? I think apps can be useful. I think you want to be careful to use one that's well researched. There's a lot of junk out there as well. So, you can there are apps that help with habit formation, for example. And I think that can be really good to be accountable if you're trying to set up a new habit that can be really great. There are some sleep improvement apps that are well researched and used by the NHS, for example. So, but I really think it's about doing your homework. The, the other thing I would say about using apps is just to be careful, because if you're having an issue that would be best served by speaking to a professional who's really well trained in that area, you can waste a lot of time.... Yeah.

Melissa: 24:16

...trying to sort it out yourself by using an app or some sort of technology. And so I kind of would caution about using an app when what you might need is a professional who can work with you and understand your personal circumstance. So just about being aware of not preventing yourself getting timely help.

Danielle: 24:39

Yeah. Melissa: Yeah. Because I suppose it can be very useful in being proactive in terms of wellbeing, like wanting a new habit and I think the habit trackers can be useful. It's amazing, isn't it? As adults, how we like to see a tick or a star in, in a row, I think they can be really helpful. And I suppose from the charity perspective, I mean, online has been really useful for us in terms of getting our information out there.

Melissa: 25:04

Absolutely.

Danielle: 25:04

Like the development of our Wellbeing Learning Platform, getting our digital resources in a place where people can access them whenever they want to, it's not like a fixed time. So, you know, how do you think some of the digital development we've done can help people in terms of managing wellbeing?

Melissa: 25:25

Yeah, well, I think we've done some really great development. So we have our Wellbeing Learning Platform now. We've got all of our workshops on there, which is super because it used to be that if you wanted to take one of our workshops, it had to be done by an organisation and you had to be lucky enough to be working there. And, you know, it wasn't really accessible to anyone working or studying in pharmacy, whereas now it is.

Danielle: 25:51

Yeah.

Melissa: 25:51

So our Wellbeing Learning Platform has lots of videos, workshops. We've got our podcast where we cover lots of different topics. We have our Act Now campaign, which every year focuses on sending out materials to people on different aspects of mental health and wellbeing. And of course we have online applications now so people can apply for a grant online. They can apply for a Listening Friend, they can apply for counselling. So it's kind of we've removed a lot of barriers to accessing support because it used to be that maybe you needed to contact someone and it needed to be during working hours. And you know, online access has really changed a lot of that. So it's been very positive for us as a charity, I think.

Danielle: 26:43

And a lot of that, I suppose, is education, isn't it? And self-awareness, understanding yourself, what habits you can change that type of thing. But there has been probably a rise in kind of the self-help angle online like, what's your view of gaining kind of self-help online? Because I know you were just saying it's sometimes useful to speak to somebody.

Melissa: 27:05

Yeah.

Danielle: 27:05

What's your view on that?

Melissa: 27:08

Probably depends on what you're talking about and how serious the issue is. So if it's a more serious issue, if it's impacting your daily functioning, if it's impacting your relationships or your ability to work, I would probably say it's good to start with a human being, a professional who can help you. If you're wanting to start a habit streak like, you know, getting out walking or maybe changing some of your eating habits to be more positive, there are apps that can help with that, and it can be really positive. So I think that it's all about the quality. And this is where it gets a little bit difficult because there are some apps and wellbeing content online that is fantastic. It's really well curated. It's written by experts. The fact that we can access these things these days is amazing.

Danielle: 28:09

Yeah.

Melissa: 28:10

We can access help and ideas in ways that we never could in the past. The problem is that there's also a lot of rubbish out there. There's a lot of bad advice. There's a lot of unresearched advice. There are a lot of people out there talking about something that worked for them that could be harmful for someone else. So I just think we've got to be quite cautious.

Danielle: 28:36

Yeah. Melissa: Yeah. I agree. I think it's something that concerns me slightly. And I suppose pharmacists can probably resonate with this. You know, people googling medical advice or what medicine they should be taking. And, you know, nothing is a substitute for professional advice that's individualised for you and going seeking that help. And I suppose that's a worry. And leading onto that is probably AI, because people are using AI an awful lot more, aren’t they now? And using that to kind of assess where they are and seek support. I mean, what's your view on AI? Well, I mean, we know that AI is progressing cancer treatments really fast and you know that they're used in the right context by researchers and all of that, I think AI is is has the potential to be really helpful. In terms of mental health and wellbeing support, I would just be so cautious because I think we know that AI, it can lack human empathy. It can act as an echo chamber like and be quite sycophantic, just telling you what you want to hear and echoing back what you've said. This can be really unhealthy. We know it can show bias or stigma. It may fail to recognise or challenge delusional or suicidal thinking. There have been some tragic, tragic cases where it's actually helped people to, you know, end their lives. I mean, I would be really cautious about saying to anybody that they could use AI for their own mental health. I think that for something as important as mental health and wellbeing, you're probably better off going to someone who's well trained. Yeah Melissa: Yeah. So if you do reach out for that support, you know, you’re getting that support from a person.

Melissa: 30:36

Yes.

Danielle: 30:37

You know, now because of online we have access to that support 1 to 1 support like online and in person.

Melissa: 30:44

Yes. Yeah.

Danielle: 30:45

Do you think one’s more more effective than the other? Like is online less effective than going seeing a counsellor, or can it be as useful?

Melissa: 30:53

Yeah. There's really interesting research on this. So the great thing about online therapy is that you are with a person.

Danielle: 31:04

Yeah.

Melissa: 31:05

And so you've got a trained individual assuming you do your homework because, you know, you do need to make sure that you've got someone who's properly trained and accredited. And there are a lot of people out there who are not. So assuming that you've done your research and you've got a well trained person, you've got a human being in there who's listening to you, who's understanding the nuance of your situation and is exploring that with you. And the great thing about online therapy is that it's accessible. So for people with disabilities or who work, who live in remote areas where accessing help might be quite difficult, suddenly this access is there, you know, in Covid a lot of people started working online. So therapy can only really help if you access it. So it's great that it's expanding access. This is of course, we're talking about online therapy with a live therapist. So not not an app or a, you know, an AI person. Not person, AI agent, whatever we want to call it, I don't know. So some studies have shown slightly better results face to face, however, in one of these studies, the therapists noticed the difference more than the patients, than the clients. Like they they maybe benefited as much as they would have if it was face to face. So, but another study in the Journal of Psychiatric Research looked at mental health treatment outcomes during the pandemic, compared with three years before. And despite a lot more remote sessions, there was no impact on treatment outcomes. So I really think that in therapy, the most important predictor about what the outcome is going to be is your relationship with the therapist. So if you're able to have a good, strong relationship with your therapist online, that's fine. If online gets in the way and you feel like you can't connect with that person as well as you would if you're in the room, you probably want to go for a face to face. But the mechanism itself, whether it's online or in the room, there doesn't seem to be a lot of evidence saying that one or the other is better.

Danielle: 33:32

That's really interesting. And I suppose when you just mentioned then like online face to face and maybe a slight difference in some studies, you just wonder as well about where that person's accessing from. So I'm guessing you've got to be in a space where you feel, you know, you can close the door. It's confidential. You've not got family members listening in. You know, it's important. You probably create that environment as well as from a home environment if you are doing it from there.

Melissa: 33:59

Oh, absolutely. I mean, you hear from online therapists that, you know, they'll log in and someone's sitting in Starbucks. You know, that's that's probably not an appropriate environment to do your therapy session.

Danielle: 34:14

So you’ve got to set yourself up.

Melissa: 34:15

You have to set yourself up to be in the right situation. Yes. Yeah.

Danielle: 34:21

Brilliant. So that's all been really interesting and I think, you know, we can see that online, it's a part of our lives now and it's not going away. And the growth of AI. But I think really understanding how it can impact our mental health and wellbeing in a positive and negative way is really, you know, the first step to make sure we protect ourselves. So I thought that was really great insight. So thank you, Melissa, for joining us. And as always, we hope our listeners feel inspired to bring about positive change in their own lives. We hope, you know, if today's podcast has resonated with you, you'll go away and have a look at some of the things we've talked about today, particularly our Wellbeing Learning Platform. This has a host of information, videos, really easy to access, which are freely available for pharmacists, pharmacy students and trainees. And we also have a range of support services which we touched on. We have our own counselling service, our peer support listening service. You can click on the How We Can Help link in the podcast description to link to those services. And if you do feel you need support, please don't hesitate to reach out to us. We want to continue and to provide this free and confidential support and to open up conversations like this through the podcasts and other ways to make sure no one in our pharmacy family faces challenging times on their own. But as an independent charity, we do rely on donations from both individuals and organisations to help us deliver this work. So if you are in a position to do so, please consider donating today. You can find a QR code in the show's description and at the end of the video. Donations really do help us deliver that essential support. So thank you so much for listening, and we really look forward to seeing you again at our next podcast.