The Boiling Frog Framework

In this episode, Dr. Ash is joined by Claudia Bond, a seasoned trainer and mindset coach, to delve into the insights of The Boiling Frog Workbook. Together, they explore the powerful "boiling frog" metaphor, illustrating how chronic stress can quietly build over time, eventually leading to burnout if left unchecked. Dr. Ash candidly shares his own journey of overcoming burnout, highlighting the transformative role of self-awareness, strategic decision-making, and emotional intelligence in managing stress effectively.

Gain valuable insights into the importance of community support and practical techniques for reducing stress, as well as actionable strategies to cultivate a positive internal environment, essential for thriving amid life’s challenges.

Ready to take charge of your mental well-being? Tune in now, and don’t miss the free guide linked below to help you start managing stress more effectively today!


In this episode you will learn about:

• Understanding chronic stress and burnout
• How to thrive not just survive
• "Boiling frog" metaphor for gradual stress buildup
• Importance of self-awareness and emotional intelligence in stress control
• Workplace challenges and their impact on mental well-being
• 4-step "boiling frog" framework for stress relief
• Managing cognitive load, conflict, and crisis situations
• The role of community support and accountability in fighting stress
• Proactive steps for personal growth

About the guest:

Claudia Bond is a change management expert with 25 years of experience working with Top 500 companies across Australia, Asia Pacific, and the USA. She specializes in strategic thinking, effective communication, and client value enhancement. Claudia is passionate about improving organizational culture, leadership, and values, helping clients navigate change efficiently. With a background in strategic marketing, PR, and industrial-organizational psychology, she brings a wealth of expertise to her work. In her personal life, Claudia enjoys reading, opera, fine art, horse racing, skiing, and spending time by the beach with family and friends.


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Connect with Dr. Ash Kumar:
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You can get The Boiling Frog Workbook by Dr. Ashish Kumar here.

Don’t miss out on this episode’s free resource! Click here.

Ready to transform stress into strength? The journey starts here. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Hello friends, and a very warm welcome to Transforming Stress with Dr. Ash. Are you ready to turn stress into your comfort? For over 30 years now, Dr. Ash has worked and gained education across three continents: India, the United Kingdom, and the United States in healthcare. He's witnessed firsthand how stress can impact our health and cause our happiness. But here's the exciting part. He's here to help you transform your stress into a powerful tool for growth and resilience. Each week, he'll share practical tools and life-changing insights from his books, including The Boiling Frog, to help you manage your stress, find balance, and live a life of purpose. Please join us every Friday at 5 p.m. and let's start turning stress into strength together. Now let's dive into today's episode.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

Welcome, welcome to the Transforming Stress Podcast. Joining me today is Claudia Born, a senior trainer and a mindset coach. Welcome, Claudia.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

Thank you, Dr. Ash. It's such a pleasure always having a chat with you, and I look forward to our discussion today.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Well, today we are here to talk about the Boiling Frog Workbook, which I've just released. And uh thank you for all the support in that journey.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

You're certainly most welcome. And I'm looking forward to having a discussion and uh learning more about it and sharing it with your audience today.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

I'm very excited for the same, Claudia.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

So please tell me, Dr. Ash, what is the boiling frog concept? I think that'd be a great place to start.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

The boiling frog concept is a commonly used metaphor, Claudia, that if you throw a frog into the hot water, it will immediately jump out. But if you throw a frog into cold water, slowly increase the temperature, so much so that the frog doesn't recognize. The frog tries to adapt till the time it loses the ability to further adapt and is boiled to death. This is used in the context of chronic stress, where much more often chronic stress is in serious and people do not realize that, and they develop stress-related health issues, sometimes it can be even more serious.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Exactly. It can be very serious, right? It can result in death, death by what they think is choice. Uh, how did this boiling frog concept inspire you to write the book, Dr. Ash, and then to start this podcast?

SPEAKER_00 2:28

In 2014, almost 10 years earlier, I was attending a conference in Washington, D.C., and I heard Dyke Drummond, one of the physician executive coaches, he was speaking to a group of 4,000, 5,000 doctors in the US and doing this talk about the burnout in doctors and physicians. When I attended that workshop, I realized that even I was having the initial symptoms of burnout. And the most ironical thing was that I wasn't aware that I was having burnout. So then I started working personally with Dyke Drummond. And over a period of a year, I started shifting things. Developed a new, worked on a new mindset, developed leadership skills, which were many of them were not taught in the medical school. And it was an entire journey, Claudia, over the next decade where I could thrive in any environment. Now I am working as a full-time doctor, as a consultant in internal medicine, and even if the environment is most challenging, I'm able to survive. I'm not saying it's always easy, but I have developed a framework that most of the time I'm not only able to survive, but thrive. But it all starts with that self-awareness that where you are at at any particular time.

SPEAKER_01 3:51

Yes, yes, it does start with that point of awareness and I think also a decision. Dr. Ash, can you tell us about the connection between burnout and stress management and decision making? Because it sounds like you arrived at a decision that you wanted to thrive versus just survive, right? Tell me about the connection between burnout and your decision-making framework.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

First of all, I realized that a lot of my colleagues around me were very stressed. I was confused to start with when I saw that level of burnout. I felt people have come so far in their educational, professional journeys and they are unhappy, they are chronically stressed out. I mean, if you see the example, for example, how much would you say a journey would take to be a doctor? It's in several hundreds of thousands of dollars. And if somebody is unhappy and chronically stressed, I felt that was a high cost to pay for misery. So I wanted to create an environment around me which was full of joy, positivity, encouragement, inspiration. And can one do it? Because if I cannot do it, I've made up my mind that this is not the right place. So once that realization came, I made that decision that I'm going to change this situation or I'm going to get out of here. But thankfully, in the last 10 years, I've been able to develop skills and the mindset that I'm having my cake and eating it. That is the boiling frog framework which teaches and shares that how in any kind of environment you can thrive, not merely survive. And it is a journey. Can we do it all the time? No, we take a realistic assessment of how things are in the situation, how things are in the particular environment. And sometimes we realize that the environment is not working for us and we need to reinvent our path. So, have I answered your question here?

SPEAKER_01 5:53

Yes, you have. Thank you, Dr. Ash. And I think you just pointed something in that answer, very important. You have your external environment around you that you're talking about, and then how do you address that? But also your own internal environment and the emotional intelligence. Could you please tell us about how your own internal environment, your own emotional intelligence relates to leading and managing other people, not just yourself, but other people as well.

SPEAKER_00 6:20

Absolutely, Claudia. And I think that is the hitting the nail on the head. It all revolves and on the internal environment. It is the foundation. The first section of the book and the first section of the boiling frog framework is about self-management. Self-management is about self-awareness. You develop self-awareness through self-reflection. The five aspects of self-care, which are very important, then do you have the discipline, the self-discipline to take care, to have self-care? Do you have the discipline to have regular self-reflection? But you know, many times we are in a situation, Claudia, that we can blame it on the environment, we can blame it on every possible thing, but we don't want to look at this person here. So in my framework, self-accountability and taking extreme ownership is also pivotal. And that is the five pillars of self-management. Creating, managing your internal environment. Rest, everything is built upon this.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

Yes, absolutely. Those five pillars, and just reading your book, I've I've loved seeing, you know, establishing this strong foundation to make sure that it is solid and that you have that solid internal environment so that you can deal with the shifts inside outside in the outside environment around you because that's something that's outside of your control. What do you believe, Dr. Ash, are the biggest challenges facing professionals today in the modern workplace?

SPEAKER_00 8:00

There are huge amounts of challenges in the environment, and every industry will have different challenges. Well, I have been in the healthcare for more than three decades, but as a physician, not only as an internal medicine consultant, but I've been in as an emergency medicine doctor, I've done primary care as well. I've had patients from all walks of life, whether they are in the IT, whether they are in the multinational, whether they are in the legal profession, whether they are teachers, they have the same level of same different kinds of flavors of environmental challenges. Sometimes it's about the workload, sometimes it's about conflict, sometimes it's about some kind of a shift in the management where their values uh or their values do not match with the environment. There are different different layers of challenges and factors. But coming back to the same thing, that before addressing the environmental challenges, have you looked inside your own self? And when I say that, are you aware of your own value? Are you aware of your own strengths? Because if you realize that if you're not playing to your strengths, then it is it is very difficult to manage the challenges in the environment. You see, the environmental challenges, Claudia, are always going to be there. If you see the nature, sometimes just now there is a storm in Florida. So, can you for people who are living in Florida, can you can you plan around those challenges? You have to deal with them. When life throws you the challenges, you have to learn to deal with them. So the boiling frog framework is you see, my brain works in a very binary fashion, Claudia. That you know, as a doctor, what I do is to make a diagnosis and then I manage. Getting as much as information from the environment, from the person, from the patient, and then the management. So it's all about where we are and where we go. So it starts from inside. What are my strengths? What are my values? What are my weaknesses? What are my blind spots? Then you come to the environment. What are the things which are in the environment which are serving me? Who are the people I can leverage and what is the value I am creating into the environment? So make your own diagnosis first and manage, then make a diagnosis on the environment and then manage the environment. So the first step, self-management, and then develop your resilience. That is the second section or the second step, and then diagnose the environment. And finally, value management is managing the environment. So that is a four-step framework I have made. Now, there cannot be one size fits all approach, Claudia. If you see a forest, can you find two trees which are similar in the forest? There's a possibility, but they're not coming to be the same. They are not going to be the same. Similarly, human beings, all of us have unique values. Yes. All of us have unique strengths. So it's very important to be cued into it and lead from there.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

Yes, beautiful answer. And I love how you talk about having some self-reflection and self-awareness of what those strengths are and what those values are, what you're aiming towards, because that's driving your behavior and your decision making. Could you tell us, Dr. Ash, share with us what are some of the strategies from the boiling frog framework and from your work that you've developed here that you personally found effective in managing stress?

SPEAKER_00 11:35

Well, this might take us several conversations to complete, but you know, in the environmental management, Claudia, I've come with a framework, and that is about seeing what is the workload. The first thing is managing the cognitive workload. How you are working with your teams and colleagues, and is it are you able to leverage into each other's strength or not? Or is there any situations of conflict? If there are situations of conflict, how do you how do you then manage that conflict? Then how do you if if situations arise where there is something like sudden shift, how do you manage crisis? Are you able to anticipate the situations which basically are overwhelming and you have a framework to be able to deal with this? So again, it is first of all having that sense of shift in the environment and then taking. If there's suppose if there's any problems, chronic problems, can you come with innovative solutions or creative solutions, like what I call thinking out of the box strategy? So there is there are several things, and we can go into the details of each of them, but the key is defining a problem and then finding a strategy to deal with it.

SPEAKER_01 12:57

Beautiful. I and I thank you for that because it sounded to me when I was listening to you just now, it's almost doing a diagnosis of what's happening around you and within you and how you're responding to that. And is it being effective in, you know, as you said, align being aligned with your own values, the direction and the target that you're aiming for? And also for people, because there is so much change in the environment. You mentioned that you know the the hurricanes in Florida, we have wars unfortunately going on in the world. There's a lot of uh technical technology development, and there's a lot of shift and change, and uncertainty creates um fear in people. And I believe that your book is how would you say the boiling frog book addresses the management of fear? Because really, stress management is a fear. How would you say that the boiling frog framework in the book looks at handling fear?

SPEAKER_00 13:53

Yes, uh Claudia, very uh very apt question. And in the first uh first section, I talk about the way the brain works. Ah, so we have got uh we have got two hemispheres of the brain, the right and the left, and then there is a lower brain where you call the amygdala and the limbic system. And in chronic stress, what happens? People are living at the limbic system and the amygdala, you might have heard about the amygdala, amygdala response, fear-based response, stress-based response at the lower center. Now, people who are living at those centers might find it very difficult to access the prefrontal cortex, which is like the CEO of the brain. It is the decision-driving center of the so with the book, with the illustrations, we try to reach out to the right side of the brain. The right side of the brain is more important for imagery, for intuition, for awareness, and then the penny drops, and then they can make the shift. So the fear, chronic fear response releases cortisol, the stress responses, and people are living in their stress and making the wrong decisions, whereas understanding that fear response and and making that shift, then one can move forward and make decisions to serve. But first is to understand that I am is this a fear response I am living into? And then making developing strategies from there, and that is taught in details in the book. How do you integrate both the right and the left brain to make those to make those shifts? One more thing, if you allow me to speak, when we were speaking about the environmental management, was the concept of micro stresses. The micro stresses are sometimes chronic stresses which are very subtle and you don't see them, or they might be under the radar, but together they have a domino kind of the effect and increase the temperature of the water. So, with the boiling frog framework, I teach to decrease the temperature and make it a jacuzzi.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

Tell, tell, I love this idea. Who doesn't love a jacuzzi? Tell us about the jacuzzi effect, Dr. Ash. I'd like to hear more about that.

SPEAKER_00 16:13

Yeah, thank you, Claudia. So, jacuzzi effect is something I have created. I've been speaking about it in it, uh speaking about it in the medical grand rounds for around 10 years or so. So we spoke about the boiling temperature. You know, somebody comes in the room and suddenly uh gives you some grief, some conflict. Can you feel the temperature increasing when somebody gives you grief or pushes your button?

SPEAKER_01 16:36

Absolutely. Feel triggered and all of a sudden the tension rises and the body temperature rises.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Body temperature arises, the environmental temperature arises, then you decrease the temperature. What are the strategies you use? Understanding your emotions, how to make that emotional shifts, and then tempering down the temperature to make it a comfortable job. Because I realize that if I'm a doctor and I'm a senior doctor working, I don't want to be coming to work and feeling the negative emotion. So I and it's it's a it's a costly jacuzzi. Like uh if you see that if you see the doctors and professionals or for that matter, any professionals coming to their stage in their career in the third, fourth decade, fifth decade, they've spent millions of dollars. Would you agree with that? Yes, absolutely. And why should you burn out if you have spent millions of dollars in your career or in that journey? At least enjoy it. At least have the joy, the positivity, the meaning, the growth. So, what are these jacuzzi factors in the environment? So now I've increased, decreased now I've decreased the temperature of the environment and I'm enjoying. You know, Henry Truman, Claudia, was one of the I think 42nd or 43rd president of the US. I don't remember, but Henry Truman said a very beautiful thing, very inspiring uh quote, which I feel is about self-ownership and accountability. He said that if you cannot stand the heat of the kitchen, just get out. There is the door, just get out. So I believe in that. I believe that we should take complete accountability and ownership and see how take things as a challenge that how we are able to shift the environment. And if and we do and we use all our skills, shift our internal states, and of course, uh we try our best. And I can tell you, I've done that for the last 10 years. I've had a great working life, had my cake and eaten it too. And but sometimes you might be in difficult situations where where your values are not matching with the environmental values. That kind of friction, we know where the door is. We know where the door is. Because I do not like to use the term exit strategy. That's a defeatist mindset. I like to use the term I've used in my book is reinventing pathway. We take ownership of our situation. You see, nobody in this world, no employee in the world would be the employer will be able to hold them hostage. I mean, if you don't like the environment, if you're not able to manage the environment, the door is there. Do your best. So I have been able to do that, and the proof is in the pudding, Claudia. I have had an exceptional work experience in the most challenging environments in the last 10 years. So I wanted to share with the world how the stress can be transformed. So transform, and that is the way the transforming stress podcast was born. And you are the first person because we have worked together for a year now, and I am really inspired by the work you have done, Claudia. Your energy is infectious, and I'm very grateful that you've been part of my team. And equally, every all of my colleagues who have helped me, whether they are my colleagues or whether they're my junior doctors, together we create the environment, shift the environment, look after our patients, clients, and create uh daily, we try to live empowering emotions of joy, positivity, meaning, growth, humor, connection, and name it, Claudia. The list is endless. So rising from the fear response, we shift into the higher response, higher frequencies. And you know, I might I'm going around and around, uh, but one thing I would like to say that I read a book, Man's Search for Meaning, back in 2013, and Viktor Frankl speaks about his experiences in the Holocaust. And when I realized that there were people in the Holocaust in the worst possible human situations of suffering, if people can do that, can we not do that in our own environment for my in my situation in the healthcare, helping others, serving others, inspiring others? And I feel in any environment, if people take that ownership, develop those skills, it is possible.

SPEAKER_01 21:10

Absolutely, it's impossible, it's absolutely possible. And like you said, it's taking ownership, it's deciding, and I love your terminology of reinventing pathways, creating new positive meaning from what your situation or circumstances might be. And using something like your workbook, which is a very practical application. You ask these brilliant questions in each chapter, guiding them to reinventing their pathways, creating a meaning that's heading in a direction that what they really want. And I think that's really critical. So, Dr. Ash, tell us a little bit more about the program well, the book, the workbook, and what your plans are for the remainder of this year around the boiling frog program that you've developed.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

Yeah, thank you. Thank you, Claudia. I mean, the book is the work. Book is a framework which takes people, which takes the readers' step-by-step approach to first understanding themselves, building the skills of self-management, building up their resilience, then understanding their environment, and finally understanding their values, their core values, and see how they are thriving in the environment or not thriving in the environment. Now they can do it on their own, but sometimes we also realize that when you are like very stressed and exhausted, it's very difficult to do things on your own. I have myself had so much of support. Lots of coaches, colleagues, mentors, teachers have contributed to my life in my life, in the journey of growth. You are one of them, Claudia. So having that community is very important because isolation is not healthy. So if you know that we are in a boiling frog environment, you can come and get into the jacuzzi with me, have these boiling frog conversations, which are the empowering conversations, and be able to temper down the temperature and make it a jacuzzi. So in a group coaching, in the masterminds, we are taking readers through step by step, week by week curriculum into these 20 chapters. It will be a six month journey. Wow. It will be a six month journey that they will be able to go into the details, uh, the nuts and bolts of the stress management, and then they will never go there the rest of their life, because it will be so deeply ingrained in them that when you have when you are having this life, you're not having this life to come and get burnt out or have a sudden heart attack or have a chronic illness. We are here in this in the I mean, none of the scriptures say that we have to be burnt out. They skip all the scriptures, all the religions, at least in my my understanding, Claudia. Correct me if I'm wrong, talk about joy, talks about empowerment, talk about living your best. So, where is this burnout come from? We want to get rid of that and want to get rid of that, is my purpose of my life, transforming stress and having an authentic life, having so six months' journey.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

That six month journey, I love it because I I've been working with you. And that six-month journey for the audience is you deciding and committing to holding yourself to the higher level of life that you deserve. Only you get to choose what that looks like and feels like to you. And Dr. Ash has come up with this brilliant framework around the boiling frog with just really easy, practical questions that'll help you understand where am I at? What are my values, where am I headed? And then, like you said, you've got the group coaching, you've got the masterminds because this you're creating this community. So the jacuzzi effects not just between and you can have it one-on-one. Maybe you might have some clients that want to work with you privately one-on-one, but there's also this community where they get to share their wins and also discuss, you know, uh other aspects. Do you want to talk a bit about the community?

SPEAKER_00 25:10

I mean, Claudia, uh, as you and me have uh spoken about this earlier, it's about having that ace factor. It's about having that ace factor, and that ace factor is accountability, having the community and that shared experience.

SPEAKER_01 25:27

Absolutely. And who doesn't want an ace? Everybody wants an ace. Are there any when we're playing tennis, right?

SPEAKER_00 25:33

Well, I think if we have worked so hard to come so far in our life, we all deserve, we all deserve an ace. We all deserve an ace.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

And I think people need to make that decision to decide. You can't wait for the environment to give you permission to live your best life. Only you can decide enough's enough. I'm not going to suffer this stress or burnout because what is it costing you to stay there? Dr. Ash, you've been talking about how it can cost you and your health, but you can also then understand how it's having an impact on the people around you. Would you like to talk about that, Dr. Ash? That you know, the consequences of not dealing with the stress and the burnout and getting yourself to a jacuzzi effect, as you say.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

Well, uh, Claudia, this will be an endless discussion, but I will just say a few things that the cost of the stress is enormous. We are seeing, we are seeing patients in their 30s, 40s with coming with heart attacks. We are seeing patients young stroke, we are seeing young cancer in 30s and 40s, all kinds of autoimmune diseases, psychosomatic diseases, depression, anxiety, post-traumatic stress, you name it. We are seeing that manifestations of stress. The common denominator I see in a lot of young patients is high levels of unmanaged and chronic stress. Now, if you are if you have come to this world, you will have stress. With no doubt about it, I am not naive to not know that there won't be stress. There is but the stress is a few kinds, Claudia. You've got the good stress or the you stress, where you want to go in the morning and take stress and take the challenges head on, or there is distress, chronic stress, micro stress. And finally, we talk about the toxic stress. It is the chronic stress, the micro stress, or the hidden stress, and the toxic stress which overwhelms our physiology to cope. So, in the framework, we understand how the stress is affecting my body. Is it causing tightness in my chest? Is it causing palpitations? How is it affecting my sleep? How is it affecting my energy level? How is it affecting my digestion? How is it affecting my relationship with my friends, my family members, my colleagues, my clients, my patients? See whether we are able to shift that stress in a positive way. But the sometimes we might be in a situation where we realize that we have got an impossible work situation, difficult colleague, and then we have the strategies to manage that. I would say, in my experience, eight out of 10, 9 out of 10 times, one can stay in the environment and continue to be their best in that environment. I have done it for the last 10 years because I had invested already 20 years, and I wanted to continue working as a doctor, and I said, okay, but I'm not going to be selling myself short. I'm not going to be unhappy or negative emotions all the time. I am going to live an exceptional life. And can I develop the skills to be able to do that? And yes, we have been able to keep you have been able to do that, and you can see this is the framework we have created of uh the boiling frog and uh and the book. Uh and we are going to get courses out there and uh the community, the shared experiences, but going to move in that direction to help people transforming stress. You don't need to be a boiling frog, you can have your jacuzzi or a million-dollar jacuzzi. A million dollar jacuzzi.

SPEAKER_01 29:17

I think it's very important that people understand that they take control of this area of their life and that they feel in control of this area of their life. Where can they get your book, Dr. Ash?

SPEAKER_00 29:28

The book is uh available on Amazon, and I will be happy to share a link here. Yes, please. Um, it is uh it will also be available online, and I will place my link of uh the LinkedIn profile and other social media platforms where I can be reached. Uh, and I'm very happy to support uh moving forward. Uh and anybody who are finding themselves in challenging and desperate situations, that not only is there an answer or hope, but there is these possibilities which are endless. But one has to take that first step of having that accountability that we got to we got to shift this. We owe it to ourselves and to our families to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

Exactly. And I think the first step is to uh get hold of Dr. Ash's workbook, The Boiling Frog Workbook. Uh, it's in hard copy or soft format. I chose hard copy because I like to lean and take my notes. Uh, but it's a beautifully illustrated book. You can there's an illustration right behind you there in your background, Dr. Ash. Yes, yes. Do you want to talk about some of the illustrations and then we can talk about how the next steps for the audience, which is the background here.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

Uh, as you can see, I'm uh the frogs are here and they are not boiling to death because these are uh Dr. Ash's empowered frogs. They are enjoying the jacuzzi. I mean, they have even got a cocktail there sitting next to them, and they have got that life is good, life is good, and they got some they got some candles there, uh some scented candles are there, and you can see the bubbling jacuzzi. And uh, well, I'm also sitting, I'm given a cameo appearance, and I'm sitting in the next jacuzzi. Uh, and I am just feeling very grateful, and I'm feeling very satisfied that I have been able to develop this jacuzzi effect and this framework where I can serve people not only in the UK, where I've been a practicing doctor for two decades, but I can share this message with all over the world. Because, Claudia, one thing is there, you know, the recent Gallup survey, Gallup is an organization which does survey into the workplace environments. And Gallup says there are 43% of the population who might be feeling burnt. Also, they talk about people wanting to quit their environments, and sometimes almost half to two-thirds or more population is wanting to loudly quit or quietly quit the environment. So uh this is uh the the magnitude of the problem is huge, Claudia, and it is our vision, our purpose of transforming stress for people all around the world on global scale. So thank you for joining me, Claudia. It's been really beautiful to have this conversation with you today. And uh, you are an empowering coach, and you have done this for several decades with your own clients. If if the listeners want to find you, Claudia, what would be the best way they can do so?

SPEAKER_01 32:43

We can put my link on your podcast as well, uh, next to the Boiling Frog Workbook links. And uh yes, always very happy to take any calls or questions that people have. Um, but the most important thing I'd like to leave you is don't leave the site, the moment of recognition without taking some kind of massive action. And that action is deciding that you deserve better, that your loved ones deserve better, that your life deserves to be lived on its best level. And definitely get a Dr. Ash's workbook, The Boiling Frog, and join his community, get some coaching, sign up for some of the programs that he'll have listed available, and then work through. And uh, I hope we get to meet sometime and have a chat as well. So thank you, Dr. Ash, for having joined you today.

SPEAKER_00 33:31

Thank you, Claudia. Thank you. We're hoping to meet soon in Florida. Yes, in December, where that's our plan, isn't it? Yes, thank you, Claudia. Uh I'll say goodbye to you at this point of time and to my listeners. Thank you all for tuning in to the Transforming Stress podcast with me and uh and stay at the tuning in to Transforming Stress with Dr.

SPEAKER_01 33:58

Ash. If you enjoyed today's episode, we'd greatly appreciate it. If you could leave a five-star review, a like, or subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Your support helps us reach more people looking to transform their stress into new comfort. We'd love to hear your thoughts, so don't forget to comment and share. For more tips and updates, please be sure to check out our social media links in the description box below. We can't wait to have you with us next time as we continue this journey towards turning stress into resilience. Remember, it's not the stress itself but how we rise above it that defines our strength. So stay resilient and keep thriving, and we will see you next time.