Wrestling with Grief, Rage, and the Making of a Martyr

The headlines move fast, but some moments demand we slow down and tell the truth. We sit with a hard paradox: a high-profile death framed as martyrdom while a legacy of harmful rhetoric is polished into honor. Our conversation blends faith, ethics, and politics as we refuse two traps at once—celebrating violence or sanitizing the damage words and platforms can do. Anger shows up, and we give it a proper place without letting it harden us into what we resist.

Transcript

Welcome & Season Two Tone

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hello, I'm Denise. I'm Lisa. I'm Takisha. And I'm Laverne. And we're the hot gold survivors.

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Come join us. It's an opportunity where women of a certain age will talk truth, trash, and transformation.

SPEAKER_02 0:20

So hey guys, welcome to today's conversation. So there's a lot uh going on in the world today. Uh, but before we jump into that, I want to thank you once again for um for tuning in.

Naming the Topic: Charlie Kirk

SPEAKER_00 0:35

We really appreciate it. This is uh season two.

Violence, School Shootings, And Moral Whiplash

Faith, Restraint, And Guarding the Heart

SPEAKER_02 0:38

So with that said, I'm gonna turn this over to Takisha. So Charlie Kirk. So today today so we're gonna we so we're gonna talk about um Charlie Kirk, which is like the biggest thing happening today. And in this day and age, it could be a very different thing tomorrow, and it's certainly different from what it was last week. But as of today at this recording, Charlie Kirk is a featured topic for today. And Charlie Kirk is definitely a featured topic because Charlie Kirk it's a tough one. It's it's a tough one. It is a tough one. It's a tough one because honestly, we we are giving him this space right now over the space that which I guess it all kinds of tie ties in with the fact that there was yet another school shooting, with that all being said. So it's a topic, and it's it's we need to continue to have conversation in order to hash it out in our minds, but it's almost crazy. It's it's literally crazy. Yeah, I I think I think it probably bumped to the top because it encompasses so much, right? So unviolence brings in what happens in the schools and you know the conversations about right and wrong and what's black and white, and and you know, and we I think we recognize, I think some of why Takisha is, you know, kind of searching for words around it is because we do feel like we have to tiptoe a little bit. Like I know that for me personally, um, folks have asked my opinion, and my response to this point has been I really am waiting for God to get in front of me, right? So I'm trying not to have my words outpace God's ability to kind of speak to my heart. So that's where I am right now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

And it's not like there's so many Charlie Kirks out there, right, who are just in this space at MAGA now. But I just think it's going to be a pivotal death, right?

Symbol, Spectacle, And State Honors

SPEAKER_02 2:53

This is this it's gonna be it's a pivotal moment because we get the flags at half staff, you know, we get this additional fired up vengeance from the right to really lay the law down on the left.

SPEAKER_00 3:07

So I think it's pivotal, it's pivotal for him as um as a symbol. Because we really didn't even was thinking about no Charlie Kirk before all of this happened.

Grace, Double Standards, And Anger

Good Versus Evil Framing

SPEAKER_02 3:21

I didn't even know this man last week. Yeah, right, and but this week he's up for the presidential medal of honor. That is crazy because when you listen to what this guy talks about, that is really what gives me pause. When he says the most the most hateful things and harmful. I mean, he's critical of like every every minority group besides Mac and white men. Yeah. He's you know, that's all he's supporting and putting on his platforms. And I just, you know, the president of honor is right there. So there are things that happen to have staff, you know, a moment of silence in congressional um sessions, and it and I feel like y'all are really trying to poke us to come outside of ourselves and to say something that feels inconsistent with morals and values that we hold dear, right? So it is inconsistent for me to feel any sort of joy around the loss of life. But then you set it up in a way where I'm so angry, you know, that you don't really know where to put that or what to call that. The highest civilian medal in the country to someone whose whole platform has really been hate, hey, hey, in your houses clutching pearls about, oh my god, how did we get here? How are we so violent? How are we this? You set us up for that, you reward this behavior. So I, you know, I'm just I don't even want to say flabbergasted, but definitely frustrated and annoying. Um, and I'm mad that you're pulling me into hate, right? Like I'm resisting it with all I have. But you would because I don't I don't want to be you. I don't want to be a hateful person because I think that's ultimately how you win, right? That you not you you have the ability to manipulate my heart, mind, and soul in a way that aligns with evil like you. But come on, y'all. The medal of honor, you giving this man the president your medal of honor?

SPEAKER_00 5:34

Yeah, I feel like we're extending grace because you know he's no longer with us.

SPEAKER_02 5:39

But just think about all the lives that were lost and how grace was never extended to any of those people. And we're sitting here having this conversation, it's very measured. I guarantee if we were looking, we were listening to a right-wing podcast, they would be flaming like there's no tomorrow against anybody, dead or alive.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

And here we are taking the the high road, I guess. I don't know.

Silence, Complicity, And Power

Fear of Equality, Merit, And DEI

SPEAKER_02 6:04

Because we've been taught to behave. We're behaving. It's just frustrating. I think we're also taking some time to really just process all of which is going on. But I don't know, so many thoughts have gone through my mind just sitting here as you guys are speaking, but this is making America great again, right? Because this is going back. This is putting us right back where we were 50, 60 years ago. Being okay with celebrating someone who has spoke in such a manner about women, people of color, different religions, all kinds of stuff. That that's what it was all about. So therefore, they're going to celebrate like that. They're going to they're going to honor someone who ultimately at their core had their values. Right? So I don't know. Am I am I making sense? Yeah. It makes absolutely no sense how this country can award this guy for whatever he's representing. But that's what I'm saying. Are any of us surprised? But it does make sense.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

And see, that's the key.

SPEAKER_02 7:33

Like there's this whole, oh my god, you know, there's this desire to act as if this isn't exactly what this country represents. But it is. But that's what I'm saying. And I think that it's more blatantly being put in our faces now. Um, and we're constantly being challenged to not respond, and let's let's be fair, to not respond appropriately. Because there is an appropriate response to you calling me out of my name, or an appropriate response to you continuing to lock up my cares or me not being, you know, feeling safe in my skin. And I'm constantly being challenged not to respond that way, to rise above because I'm, you know, Christian. And Christian requires what really?

SPEAKER_01 8:15

That I allow you to try on my rights and and you know, and have no right, and that I have to constantly respond with good behavior. And they count on that, right? So because as many have said, they are thankful that what we seek is justice and not revenge.

Outsourcing the Fight And Sidelines

SPEAKER_02 8:34

Right. But at some point, you know, where do you trip the line where you've done too much? But it's really But the thing is, the it the line has been tripped, and the people who murdered Charlie Kirk have been tripped. So that sets our country into a civil war. So it's what from where I sit, it's like the good people, people who love and are Christian against the MAGA. It's like the good versus evil is where I'm landing without much more to really offer it because it's very conflicting. I don't know what I should be saying because either way, it's it's not gonna be the right thing.

SPEAKER_00 9:30

So And they don't have an issue, right? They don't they don't struggle with any kind of uh restraint or judgment. It's just none.

Baldwin’s Warning And Historical Echoes

Religion As Restraint Versus Righteous Anger

Condemning Violence Without Sanitizing Harm

Gun Reform, Free Speech, And Crackdowns

Managed Narratives And Democratic Erosion

Burn It Down Racism And Insurrection

Settlers, Erasure, And Language Wars

DEI Smears, Empathy Irony, And Memory

Two Things Can Be True

SPEAKER_02 9:39

Here's here's where I'm conflicted, and I and I was sharing this at the you know with with some of you earlier. I think that there are a group of reasonable people who are remaining silent, right? And so, you know, we all know that science is complicity, and we also know that all that is necessary for evil to exist is for good people to do nothing. And right now, there are good people doing nothing. I am not convinced that every Republican, every white person, every Republican white person who vo is at their base evil, but you're not doing anything to change it, and you're benefiting, like openly, intentionally benefiting from it. And I struggle with that because I don't I don't know where to put the fact that you are perfectly happy not speaking against this, and it's your responsibility, it is white supremacists' responsibility, it's white people, it is white people who are benefiting from white. It is your responsibility because you can't expect that marginalized people are gonna fix it because they're marginalized. Yeah, right? So you have the voice. Correct, you hold the power and authority in this, you're allowing democracy to be unraveled, you know, just kind of morals to be devunked, just everything we stand for, and you're doing nothing. And and it looks like taking some pride in some senses and watching it unravel. It's like, oh, watch this country implode. Okay, we all see it, but we're sitting here doing nothing? Yeah, nothing. What that's wrong. So what but what do you think that they're waiting for? Because I think some of them are really, really angry and want and want the fight. So what are they waiting for? Are they waiting for us to start it? Like, you know, are they waiting for people of color to start? I think there's a real fear, right? So I think that there's a sense of this is not right, that this can't continue in this direction. But if we dismantle it, what do we have to give up? Right? Because right now, white supremacists is the law of the land. We run the country, the authority is vested in me or people who look like me. If I really start to kind of push back because I don't like the way this train is going off the rails, and I see that. But if I jump in here and try to bring more equality or try to right-size this train, what does that mean? Do I what do I have to give up? Yeah, I have to give up some rights as a white person, and that's almost a scary. Or to them, that's scarier than what's happening. The thought that we could balance these skills and I could really lose some power here. Like we're gonna allow black people to be equal, and now I don't have authority and power over. Hmm. For a lot of folks, it's perceived power because it there's just a large base of people who have nothing. Right. Right. Because now they're coming after the the immigrant population, right? Because they say, Oh, we're not gonna mark up that tree. They don't want I'm not gonna go down the the poor and the the the black folks, and I'm not going up to that those people. Let me attack the immigrants. They don't even have rights in this country. I feel like it's let me start there. Yeah, it's it's horrible. And the the rights, the people like Charlie Kirk was promoting this. But even with the immigrants, it's black and brown immigrants, right? So he's carving out administration is carving out um a place for white immigrants, right? I know people personally who got their visas approved, no problem. So even in the targeting of the immigrants, I'm going to be so because if you're South African, we're gonna make a way somehow. If you're a white South African, yes, you're white. We're gonna make it really cushy. We're going to invite you over and make sure that And we're gonna give you some money too. Give you some money. If you're a black and brown immigrant, so there's always this distinction that I think you know, white people are like, some of them, this is making me a little uncomfortable. I don't, whatever. But if I get too involved and fight on the other side, what do I have to give up? Like, what will it cost me? Because if I make this really equal, then the job situation means they are as likely to get a job as me because it's actually based on merit, right? Because they keep talking about they're scared of DEI, they're scared of DI. No, you're scared of merit, scared of merit, scared of merit. Will dismantle your white supremacy, right? We can't have that. You are scared of the fact that you know that, you know, in the base of people that you're trying to say are not worthy are really smart, worthy people. And now we're just gonna open the door, and where does that leave me? So they would rather watch the whole thing blow up. Which Yeah, obviously. And on top of that, I think they do want to, some of them do want to have the fight, right? But they don't want to start the fight because that means that they would be on the front lines. Because at the beginning of all of this, you know, frustration that was being going on, a lot of calls. There's been a lot of calls by not just whites, but by other people of color. Well, where are the black people? And we all said Where are the black women specifically? Where are the black women? Where where are you guys? Because you usually you guys fight for stuff and it usually happens, you know. I guess you know some rights and some. So they're also I think some of them want the fight, but they didn't want to start the fight. They don't want to be at the front line, or they want that there to be a fight and watch from the sidelines. Right. That just don't want to do it, or just not be the first and the first of it. They'll bring it up the rear and then say, you know, we saved the day, still on it, whatever. But I think it's a combination of those two things. I think that I could be wrong. It's very frustrating, yeah. Very reminiscent. I feel very reminiscent of the words that James Baldwin talked about, you know, being a black person in America is to be constantly angry. Right? He said, I'm paraphrasing, yeah, but that's how I feel. Like this, I cannot believe that we are here. Like our ancestors fought really hard so that this balance wouldn't, it was trying to become a little bit more balanced, and now we're right back to where we started, it feels. It's true, and a lot, a lot of it, you know, kind of thinking about what you said, and you know, our ancestors are fighting the same fight. I think, you know, we find that the same tools are being used, right? Because a lot of it was religion. And so they gave us Christianity. And they gave us Christianity in a way that said, you know, love your enemies, forgive everybody, don't, you know, slaves are you're all y'all were born to be slaves, da-da-da-da-da. You know, to really just kind of kind of keep us docile. And even now, you see, like, the conservative Christian, same kind of, you know, the thing, the same kind of your faith is what should control you. That you it and I've heard it a lot in this conversation around Charlie Kerr. Like, and it diminishes or takes away your ability to be angry, and anger has an appropriate place. I'm a little pissed off. Like, I did not appreciate what he said. Jesus said you could be angry but send not, right? I don't agree that you know somebody should have shot this man. Like, y'all are not gonna pull me into that kind of evil. That's just not what, right? So I don't, you know, I don't agree with what he said, and he wasn't this person, but I'm not jumping on the bandwagon that you know somebody should have put a bullet in his head. That to me, no. Yeah, I'm not gonna go back to that. But I'm not trying to be in that group that's now celebrating and trying to idolize his life because the way he walked was not good. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I don't I don't think he should have died. No. You have an opinion, okay, but you shouldn't have to necessarily die for that opinion. Like so many other people. They had an opinion, they had a thought. You don't have to, you shouldn't have to die because of that.

SPEAKER_00 18:07

Yeah, and he he thought that in I remember one speech he said about the right to bear arms, like if this isn't something that we want to do, there's just gonna be some death as a part of that, and there's nothing that we can do. And that's fine saying that. He just never thought that he would have to pay that price.

Trash, Truth, And No Clear Transformation

SPEAKER_02 18:23

Right. Right. Right. But it is what it is. I think jumping ahead, right, to our trash, truth, and transformation. I think the trash here in this topic is that Charlie Kirk lost his life. That's the trash. But and the truth though is we could be angry and send not. Yeah, and send not. Yeah. But it's just it's tough. It's a tough space. And I and as you were saying earlier, I think, and also the trash is is that you know, now he's being celebrated and all this other stuff when is he was not a good person. He was not a good person, but it's overshadowing the it's kind of overshadowing the things that we've been trying to fight for for so long, and that is some gun reform, so there's no these mass shootings that continue to go on. But if that if gun reform happens because of this, then you know, so be it.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

I don't think it will, because they're just using this death as a reason to go in deeper, right? I heard that they were going into Tennessee, maybe Memphis next with the National Guard. Uh, the Chicago thing, uh, they didn't get approval to go into Chicago. New York's on its late, but that hasn't happened yet. So the way the White House has been communicating, it's like, okay, guys, we're coming. We're coming for these blue cities.

Personal Transformations And Guardrails

Parenting Under Threat And Fear

Listener Feedback And Closing

SPEAKER_02 19:54

And the message is also being said that what you say, like you really don't have free speech. No. So do you really have free speech? No. No, you don't. Why? Because if you start saying things that we don't like, somebody's gonna take you out because we don't, I don't want to hear you say that anymore. And we still we should have, you don't have to like. You don't have to like everything that everyone says. And if you're on social media, keep scrolling or turn your back and keep walking. You have a choice, and killing isn't it. Everyone has a right to their opinion. You don't have to like it, you don't have to love it, but you do have a choice to keep it moving. And I think our administration is doing not a very good job of showing what that looks like because it's they don't want the top, it's coming from the top. You say this, we're gonna get you. The administration is showing absolutely no leadership from where I sit. I think they do, I think they're showing extensive leadership for what exactly they want, and that is to clamp down on communications piece. But for the masses, that's no leadership, in my opinion. And that's why I don't understand why there isn't outrage in the street because of that, right? Because if take the race out of it, take the yeah, even though I recognize having said that, you can't take race out of it. But looking at like the democracy experiment, right? You're what you watch this man ban people press out of the White House. He's indicated what they can and cannot cover. Yeah. What they can and at one point they're like, if he gets booed at the US Open, they couldn't cover that. But they could not tell about it. At some point they held the crowds outside. So you are now scripting a narrative. Yeah, just like any other, you know, kind of sovereign nation state. We'll become that person. So you are now allowing this person to come and dismantle federal judgments, to dictate what the Supreme Court, you know, dismantle all of this chat. You're watching this, not from a black and white perspective, just from this is the country. A humankind perspective. And nothing is happening. This is the country that you love. So this right, so this says to me, you would rather give up your rights than to invite somebody else into equal rights with you. I would rather just have this maniacal white supremacist continue to dismantle everything that we said he stands for than to have you be equal to me in any measure and form. The depth of racism is phenomenal to me. Just kind of as a social or anthropological perspective, it is phenomenal, like the the system of race, which is an artificial construct to begin with. One, two, and three. That we built this whole thing, you would you would rather see it burned to the ground. Yes, down to the ground. Down to the ashes. And that's to me the most phenomenal piece of rocking knowledge. You will rather burn to the ground. Yes, that was the whole thing with Trump getting elected. Like, wow. I'm like, this can't be us. No, this as a nation, this is exactly us. He let an insurrection happen. Where people died. People died. And the people that you said that you honor, right? People who are here to uphold the law. Police officers got spat on, kicked, killed. Like, what are we doing now? What are we doing? And we're okay with this. Like, I don't. They defecated on the Capitol floor. Jesus Amora said the the level of baseness is they're willing to go, and y'all are standing idly by. And just you know. Yeah, they were hunting the VP in order to hang him. That part. That part. Beat up the existing um speaker of the house's husband. Yeah. Almost killed the man. And you voted this man in the standing here watching all of this happen. So this is to me, it's so much scarier than just Trump, right? And the narrative, I don't know, I was hearing some speech of coming from the national conservatives and how they're telling the story and what the narrative is. Oh, we built this country on nothing. We came here as settlers, not immigrants, as settlers, and we built this country from what it is, and our ancestors and blah blah blah. And I was sitting there going, what? And and I'm saying, well, you don't see yourself as an immigrant because what are settlers? Because maybe there were people that were already here that were native to this land that you just that you made sick, you killed, you pill, you, you, you pillage their land after they showed you everything, welcomed you into the space and the thanks they got. And now you're not immigrants that came here. You came here running away from something else. So you came here, settled as an immigrant, and just began to I can't to that same point. I'm looking at the commemoration of Hurricane Katrina the other night, and they were calling American citizens refugees in our own country. Yeah. Who does that? And now we have this guy who we're um trying to make him look like he should be on a pedestal somewhere. Who's been I mean, he used shameful. He used the name of Michelle Obama, Kataji. I said her name, always say her name. Katanji. Katanji, sorry. Um there was a couple other names. Oh, Joy Reed, and someone else he named saying that you know they they're the perfect uh DEI hires and all this. He said that civil rights was a mistake. Was a mistake. Yeah. And empathy a mistake. What did he say about empathy? It's a made-up word. But now we're we're being called into empathy. On his behalf. On his behalf. Yeah. So that's why it's conflicting. That's for all the like, what what are we doing here? I'm supposed to be crying? Yeah, I'm not like you're making this hard. You're making this very hard. Oh. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 26:42

You don't know what to do. It's like, oh, but that he was shot.

SPEAKER_02 26:44

And being a believer, it makes it really, really, really difficult to, as Lisa was, you know, alluded to, to kind of it's just so many conflicting thoughts and feelings and ideas. And when it's coming from other Christians, like the posts that you see, some of them, you're like, what? Do you know how he was talking about your kind? Do you do you think?

SPEAKER_00 27:14

It's very exhausting.

SPEAKER_02 27:16

Um, do you know how he feels about not just your kind, but your wives and women as a whole? Like, have you, are you but I guess it's you know, when you are insulated, you only get one side of the story. And you know, and if if I guess if all of your friends are conservatives, they're only putting up all the information of how he spoke about God and you know, the Bible and all of that stuff. And you I guess you just don't hear or see, I guess because we're on the other side. And they're managing the narrative, they're starting to shape the media and the messaging on that. Yeah. But we've been exposed to the exact opposite of what that looks like. So I don't know. I mean, I think someone said, um, no, I don't think I don't think, I don't think he deserved to die, but I can't, I cannot mourn his death. And unfortunately, that's it. Like I think it's a I think it's tragic. It is tragic because some daughter has to live without her son, uh her father. But then you gotta think about all the children who have lived without their fathers at the hands of Charlie Kirk-like people. Yeah. Well, like this. I was trying to. There you go. So you gave us the trash, right? What what's the what's the truth? That two things can be true at the same time. Yeah. What were the two things? That we can we don't want to see him die, but we're not mourning his death.

SPEAKER_00 28:59

Or the trash is the nation that we live in.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

Right, I I agree with her. The trash is the situation that boy is here having to struggle with mourning someone's death.

SPEAKER_03 29:17

That's trash.

SPEAKER_02 29:22

Well, what's the what's moment of silence? The treasure for me is that we're gonna The treasure? Are you adding treasure? Um reform. The treasure for me is at least raising or elevating the conversation around gun reform. I think we need to still put some guardrails around who all is are um getting these guns and taking them out of the hands of so many folks. I think the people who felt strongly about that the day before Charlie was killed still feel that way today, if not stronger.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

I don't think this has changed anyone else.

SPEAKER_02 30:03

Huh?

SPEAKER_00 30:04

I I just don't think so.

SPEAKER_02 30:05

And in Charlie's own words, he was just the cost of the second amendment. He said it himself. This shit happened to be him. So his people will take that and run. He was like, it was you, Charlie. But you He didn't think it would be him, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

We will continue to fight the good fight and stand for the Second Amendment.

SPEAKER_02 30:29

They'll wave flags, half staff, full staff, whatever. They'll wave flags in his honor. That's the truth. And the trash.

SPEAKER_00 30:37

So what's the transformation?

SPEAKER_02 30:39

Yet to be seen.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

Yeah, I was just gonna say, I don't think there's a transformation. Transformation.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:49

It's a long road. That's gonna take that's a long road. Transformation in this country is going to is going to be a pretty long road. Because we haven't healed, we haven't changed. We don't even want to admit that there's an actual problem. You know, we we tend toes, we tend toes and ten fingers down this right now. What what's transformed for you in this conversation? Like, is anything transformative for you personally? Like I understand the world, but we're probably not gonna fix that in this particular hour. I think that's on the schedule for next year.

SPEAKER_00 31:30

Yeah, that's that may be season three. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 31:32

Season three?

SPEAKER_00 31:33

Yeah, I think that's season three.

SPEAKER_02 31:34

Okay, so from your lips to God. We're ahead of ourselves, but what's the transformation for you? Well, I'm gonna just stand with uh the transformation for me being elevating the conversation around gun reform because I think that we have to. So that's my truth, and I'm sticking with it.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

And your transformation elevating the conversation.

SPEAKER_02 32:04

I don't know. I don't know. Maybe shifting, truly shifting my mindset and really understanding and accepting, which is hard to to really accept this is the realization of and state of our country. Always kind of knowing it in the back of my head, but I guess transforming my thought process into I guess accepting that it is, what says it is. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 32:43

I think for me in this particular situation, the transformation was my understanding how intentionally I have to guard my heart.

SPEAKER_02 32:52

Like how, if you live in this mist day after day after day, how easy it is for you to become what you're fighting against, right? Like for you to become really hard and evil and mean. And just how really intentional and like prayerfully intentional I have to be about guarding my heart, my spirit, and my face. It's important that we guard our hearts because it's a lot. Yeah, it's a lot. Because you don't want to become that will absolutely preach. Yeah, I I don't want to be.

SPEAKER_00 33:28

Yeah, the transformation is just understanding how you have to move about in this world differently. And I always thought the transformation in doing this podcast was gonna be something positive, like, okay, this is the situation, we've got this transformation, and it's gonna be okay. No, it for me it's just how how do I move in this crazy world? And realizing that there's just so much hate. I knew there was hate, but that there was so much hate. That's it.

SPEAKER_02 34:01

It's been the biggest thing for me, just understanding that just reconciling that in your mind, like, oh, wrapping your head around the degree, and I think it was like I used to be with grandmother two years ago, right?

SPEAKER_01 34:15

And I remember when the Gotti Blessed was another son, another grandson, and I think about like how many people already hate him.

SPEAKER_02 34:25

Yeah, he's a two-year-old black male. How many people already hate this guy?

SPEAKER_00 34:32

Yeah, it is, yeah. And it's so funny what this is the week of 9-11, and for 9-11, I was walking around seven and a half months pregnant, thinking and seeing and working downtown and getting out of train station, seeing those towers on fire, and thinking, what kind of crazy world did I bring my kid in? Am I bringing my kid into? Well, honey, that ain't nothing to what's happening right now.

SPEAKER_02 34:55

I know. We actually were pregnant at the same time. Yeah, just to see that three months pregnant. And I was thinking the same thing, like, oh my God, what world am I pregnant in too? Yeah, yeah. I wasn't pregnant. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:09

You were not pregnant. At that time, you were not pregnant. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:14

It is, it but but I think the bringing in of new life refocuses for you. Like, how do you you know it's it's crazy. It's hard. It's it's hard.

SPEAKER_02 35:26

It is, it is, and you know, your fierce desire to protect can turn into something rock hard. You know, you just have to be so very careful because then you you give them that, right? Instead of your whole open heart, your authenticity, your all of that. You give them, you gotta be careful out here. Don't trust anybody. You know, you teach them from your fear. You parent from fear. Right. I texted just a couple of hours ago to my son in Chicago before, you know, we found out that they were not gonna approve that. Yeah, you know, those folks, troops coming in. Like, keep your head on a swivel. I'm surprised there is even an approval process. But who wants to? This is your time. You're in a college campus, you should be able to explore and enjoy your life. But no, you need to keep your head on a swivel at all times. It makes me it makes you angry. Oh my god. So we did it again. Like somebody in one of our feedback sessions said when we do true trash and transformation, that should be the end.

SPEAKER_01 36:33

Remember, they said that we do true transformation. Because we bring up new stuff and it really spirals and it's we spiral it out.

SPEAKER_02 36:38

They're like, we that was one of the feedback. We appreciate all of our listener feedback. Some of the feedback we got is like when we say trash truth and transmission, we need to end it. And here we are doing it.

SPEAKER_01 36:50

I think we've all shared our trash.

SPEAKER_02 36:51

Probably 12 minutes into truth, trash transformation, and we're still going. Because we're still trying to transform behind all of this.

SPEAKER_01 36:56

Sometimes trash, true, and transmission is loaded in the podcast. You know, you gotta we gotta end it here.

SPEAKER_02 37:02

Well, we can edit it out.

SPEAKER_00 37:04

Yeah. All right, guys. So uh thanks for taking the time to listen. No major problem solved on this episode here.

SPEAKER_03 37:11

Nope.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

Um, just a new way of living and a new awareness. But thanks for for tuning in. I appreciate it. See ya. See ya. Bye.

unknown 37:24

I know it's the lights are on.

SPEAKER_01 37:26

Uh I thought the lights are home, I'm like, oh.