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If Your Curls Could Talk
Join The Curly Girl Methods founder, Lorraine Massey, on her new podcast, "If Your Curls Could Talk,” a podcast where we celebrate the incredible stories behind every curl, wave, and coil with a diverse array of Lorraine’s notable clients. From hair journeys that reflect resilience and self-expression to the deep-rooted connection between our hair and identity, we explore the human experiences that make each strand unique. Let’s unravel the beauty, struggles, and triumphs that coil us together—one curl at a time. Available on all major podcast platforms.
If Your Curls Could Talk
Our Hairy Heritage with Myriam Gilles
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Have you ever hesitated to step into a salon that didn't feel like it was meant for you? Our guest, Myriam Gilles, knows this feeling all too well. She shares her insightful journey with curly hair and the complex dynamics of "good hair" in the black community, rooted in her Haitian heritage. From her initial reservations about visiting a salon that seemed exclusive to finding a place of acceptance, Myriam's story is a powerful reminder of how deeply intertwined hair is with personal and cultural identity.
In our calling all curls segment, Lorraine offers expert hair care insights. Alongside Lorraine, Poorna Jagannathan, actress and fierce global activist in ending violence against women, shares personal anecdotes about the liberating power of letting curls flourish in their natural state. Whether you're seeking advice on minimalist hair care routines or the benefits of water-soluble products, this episode is packed with practical tips and heartfelt stories.
We express our gratitude to our guests and invite you to join our podcast community, continuing the conversation around the beauty and complexity of natural curls.
Lorraine Massey is a curl advocate whose lifelong dedication to understanding and caring for curly hair has helped drive a global phenomenon of curly acceptance. Author of three critically acclaimed books: Curly Girl: The Handbook; Silver Hair: A Handbook; and Curly Kids: The Handbook.
Lorraine Massey is a curl advocate whose lifelong dedication to understanding and caring for curly hair has helped drive a global phenomenon of curly acceptance. As the founder of the groundbreaking Curly Girl Method, she has empowered countless individuals to embrace their natural texture. Lorraine is also the author of three critically acclaimed books: Curly Girl: The Handbook, Silver Hair: A Handbook, and Curly Kids: The Handbook.
CurlyWorld website:
https://www.curlyworld.com/
CurlyWorld Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/curlyworldllc/
Host: Lorraine Massey
Producer: Susan Kaplan
Engineer: Dan Strong
Original Music: Cyrille Aimee
Show: If Your Curls Could Talk
Hi, I'm Lorraine Massey, founder of the Curly Girl Method. Welcome to If your Curls Could Talk. Join us as we talk to our very special guests sharing their curly hair journeys and take questions from you, our listeners. This is If your Curls. Could Talk.
Speaker 1It's such a pleasure to have Miriam here today. On, if your Curls Could Talk. We often talk about our hair, but what we don't always recognize is that our hair's history goes much deeper than just our parents' genetics. Our DNA carries the influence of countless generations, a blend of ancestry and evolution roaming through time and space. So come along with me as we dive into Miriam's fascinating hair journey. Hi, miriam, hi, thanks so much for having me, miriam. It's always good to see you. So where would you like to start?
Speaker 3I guess I want to start by saying that I'd walked by the salon a number of times. I live in Tribeca so I would see the salon and I noticed the curl in the window and I thought, huh, I've got curly hair. Should I go there? And one of the things about being a Black woman is are you going to be welcome in a salon that seems to cater mainly to white ladies? Nice looking white ladies, right, but white ladies nonetheless. But as soon as I sat down I felt just immediately comfortable. You just sort of took my hair in your hands and were talking to me about it and I just felt at ease. And let me explain what that means. It's not some deep spiritual thing.
Speaker 3I've gone to lots of places to get my hair cut in the city and you can really tell in the first five minutes if it's going to be okay. If you get somebody who looks at you and they can't even compute you've got this color skin but this kind of hair and they just don't know what to do you're in trouble. If they start going straight to the sink without even talking about a dry cut, you know you're in trouble If they're asking you questions right off the bat. Where are you from? What have you put in your hair today?
Speaker 3You know you're in trouble and I don't mean that there's any racism there. I just mean that there are a lot of people who are just not trained to deal with this hair but, in addition to that, have low cultural competency and don't know how to communicate with somebody who looks like me about their hair. And so I just knew immediately the way you touched it and the way you asked me about it, and you know you're just so mellow and soothing and wonderful. I told you that my view about my hair, which is it is not traditional black hair, it's sort of thinner, it's less kinky, it's less wiry. This is a product of rape. At some point, right Some point in history, some white man raped an ancestor of mine and this sort of passes down through the generations and in my family it's sort of every other generation gets this beautiful head of hair, what people in my family call the good hair. I'm doing air quotes for those who can't see me.
Speaker 3And it's wonderful to have this hair. It's much easier than lots of other hair that Black women have to struggle with. But there's also this legacy. There's also this legacy.
Speaker 1Where does your curly story begin?
Speaker 3So my family is from Haiti, which is an island or half of an island. It shares an island with the Dominican Republic. That has had tons of struggles, obviously over the past 50 years, but in history it was a place where lots of colonialists landed and it was one of the first places to be colonized in this hemisphere, also the first place to be emancipated, to actually free themselves. But that just means a tremendous amount of violence and a tremendous amount of power asserted, and we can imagine lots of impacts of that history, and so I don't want to make hair sound like the most important one. You can't hear.
Speaker 1Right.
Speaker 3Well, here in this space, it feels like you know the hair is one, and it's one of those things you know, when you're a Black woman and you have what Black women call good hair, you feel a little bit excluded from some of the ways in which Black women build community. So I think I told you when I first saw you about my mom who every Saturday would go to the salon where she would stay for hours.
Speaker 3This was her place and these were her people, and it was my aunties and her friends and they were all speaking very fast, creole, and there was always something cooking on a pan in the back and they were all getting their hair done and I could never go because there was nowhere for me to really sit and I wasn't getting anything done Because your hair wasn't curly enough it wasn't curly enough, right, they didn't really know what to do with my hair not that you needed to do anything with my hair and so I just felt, sort of from an early age, that it was both a wonderful thing I spent quite a lot less time on my hair and still do than most Black women I know, including my mother but also sort of a sad thing that it put me apart. Yeah, you know, these are just remnants of a history of slavery and subordination that we just carry with us.
Speaker 1Yeah, and you told me that your family talks about your hair a lot.
Speaker 3A lot.
Speaker 1Whenever you go to family functions. Quite an obsession.
Speaker 3Yeah, there's a lot of touching of the hair. Yes to this day.
Speaker 3To this day, and I've got other cousins who have gray eyes and look, I find myself talking about their eyes too. We notice the things that stand out and the things that actually pull us closer to whites than to our actual family roots. And I think the hair is a bigger deal. I mean, I'm married to a white guy and that's never been as big a deal as my hair, yeah, so that's sort of interesting, right. My family loves my husband, gary. They love Gary's family. Yeah, he blends in, probably because he's just as loud and he loves my mother's cooking, but he blends in easily in all family functions. But there's always going to be a conversation about Mimi's hair and whether she's cut it and what products she's using and how lucky she is, and it's just sort of constant.
Speaker 1Since you're a little girl. Yeah, it's been right there, it's been a thing, yeah, and your two daughters have absolutely most beautiful curls too don't they?
Speaker 3Yes, yes, but they're tighter. Yeah, and they're growing up, I think in a different time right?
Speaker 1Yes, that's true, they're growing up in a different place.
Speaker 3They go to school in Brooklyn. They're the most woke people in the most woke, always shared so many products. Before I met you, all I would do is buy products. We still have a bathroom full of curly hair products and you know we would bond over the frizzy days of summer or the flat days of winter, or just where do you go to get a good haircut? So, if anything, I feel like our hair brought us close, which is not something that I had as a kid, and your mom had really tight curly hair too.
Speaker 3Yes, no, my mom has very classic black hair, kinky, wiry. She used to chemically straighten it when I was a kid. She'd wash it in the morning and then put on a satin bonnet to go to the salon and it was so poofy right when she left and when she'd come back it was always these beautiful poofy right when she left and when she'd come back it was always these beautiful straight curls and you know not curls, sort of curls, a little bit of wave, and it was gorgeous.
Speaker 1And I never understood how you could get that to happen over the course of the day, so she would prep her hair before going to the salon.
Speaker 3Yeah, she would wash it. Yeah, she was washed it.
Speaker 1So they didn't have a sink probably.
Navigating Hair and Family Dynamics
Speaker 3I think they did, but I just remember her. So the salon owner's name was Claudette, which I remember really really well, and they only did this kind of straightening. They weren't doing braids. Really this was for a certain kind of woman who was going to work and wanted to look professional. Did you feel excluded? I didn't really want the hair they had to be honest but I wanted to go hang out with them on Saturdays. I really did.
Speaker 3I remember feeling like I was missing out and then there came a point where I felt like oh no, this means I'm free of my mom on Saturdays and I go hang out with my friends. But that wasn't until 15 or 16, right. I remember being young and she would just leave me for the day with my dad who was a taxi driver in the city and he didn't want to be hanging out with me, so he would sometimes drop me off at his sister's house or his brother's house. So I just felt a little orphaned on a Saturday and I would have much rather have been at the salon. I've never actually wanted my mom's hair.
Speaker 3I think it is harder these days. Women seem much more comfortable with sort of a short afro, which I think is what I would do. I'm very much into ease. That's a hard thing to pull off when you're a kid. It was especially hard in the 70s. I don't know. The black women in my life seem to spend a lot of time thinking, talking, doing things to their hair, and I don't spend any time really thinking doing, and you travel a lot too, don't you?
Speaker 1Yeah, I travel a lot.
Speaker 3I literally wash. Now I just put in terms and conditions and walk out the door. I've never blow, dried or curled or done anything, so I have pretty low maintenance hair. Black hair is not low maintenance. Even low maintenance looking black hair is not low maintenance, and I'm pretty vain. So I can imagine spending a lot of time on my hair if I had that hair. But I think it takes a lot of time. There's a learning curve. Everybody has to learn about their curl and learn about what works, and I think the learning curve for Black women is maybe steeper because there's so much social pressure to look a certain way. You know, I grew up watching Charlie's Angels. I wanted straight blonde hair that swished and looked beautiful. So you have to get over all those other things that I'm sure every other girl experiences.
Speaker 3Yeah, but no, I'm pretty happy with my hair. What I'm really thrilled about is my daughters love their hair. Yeah, they just love their hair. I just remember watching Selena Gomez do a Pantene commercial once and asking my younger daughter do you ever feel jealous not having that straight hair that you know? I remember she tied the hair in a knot in the commercial. You know which? How can you even do that with hair? And my daughter said no, straight hair is so boring. And I felt like she really meant it and I thought I don't know if I've done everything right, but I've infused them with a love for their hair, which is a good thing.
Speaker 1And it shows. I mean, I think Selena she's curly, she's naturally curly Really. But that's a commercial, oh yeah.
Speaker 3You know she's definitely curly. Imagine the effort it takes to do that. But she probably has a hairdresser?
Speaker 1Yes, of course she does Living there.
Speaker 3Yeah. So do you have any siblings? I do no-transcript. And do you have similar hair? No, he's got hair just like my dad's, just regular kinky, wiry hair that he keeps and almost has always had in a low, low cut Below sea level.
Speaker 1Yes, below sea level right, because you can't see it. Yeah, did you experience any animosity about your hair in your family?
Speaker 3I think so. I don't know that I would have been able to articulate when I was younger that that's where it was coming from, but I do remember we were all very close, right. The families hung out all the time and always had Sunday dinner together, sort of an alternating cast of characters. Sometimes one uncle couldn't come or something like that, but everybody was together all the time. And so I grew up with a tremendous cadre of cousins I mean, haitian families are Catholic, so there's just a lot of kids and my female cousins would sometimes pull my hair.
Speaker 3I remember one of my cousins, nadine if she hears this, I apologize. She probably doesn't remember this, but I remember she was really mean about my hair. Look, my mom didn't really know what to do with my hair, so she would sometimes cut it herself, which I think then always results in the best haircuts. I remember having really frizzy bangs once. You know, bangs are not great for curly hair people, especially if you're trying to do the short bangs, because our hair doesn't stay put. So I think I had some terrible haircuts and she would make fun of me, and I don't know that.
Speaker 3I understood that it was coming from a place of jealousy. I just assumed that it was part of our give and take and all the cousins made fun of all the cousins about everything. So I didn't feel hostility. But I definitely think it was another space in which I felt different. But you know again, like most Black families, nadine the cousin I was just talking about is very light-skinned. So in my family there's light skin, there's gray eyes, there's my kind of hair and there's everybody got a different ration of these qualities, these characteristics. So she's very light-skinned, with freckles. That's another vestige of what we were discussing earlier. So we used to call her Yella for yellow.
Speaker 4Yeah, yella, yeah, yella.
Speaker 3And so, look, we gave and we took. I don't know that we understood that we were playing in the currency of race right or the currency of ancestry, because that's just not how you think when you're a kid. Beautifully put the currency of race.
Speaker 1So if your curls could talk, Miriam, what would they?
Speaker 3say. I think they would first say thank you for finding Lorraine, thank you especially for finding Terms and Conditions. Really, it's just the best product. I think my curls might say every life is a series of paths that we take, and so I've had some paths with my curls that weren't always so great cuts that weren't so great, or people who weren't so great, or you know even boyfriends who didn't love my hair or things like that. Right, you know, not feeling quite worthy, but I think my curls feel great now and worthy now. I think my curls are very happy that my girls love their curls and that we have that in common, so long as I can get them appointments at Lorraine's, that we can now have the salon experience that my mom used to have, which is sort of this lovely circle of life moment.
Unlocking Your Hair's Natural Beauty
Speaker 3Right, my daughter got her haircut from Lorraine and she said you know, you just leave there and you feel as though you've been touched by an angel, and she does not speak this way. I mean, she was like that was a wonderful experience and I said, yes, this is somebody I'm going to be with forever. So I felt very comfortable and I knew I'd sort of found the place that I'm going to be for a long, long time because Lorraine was who Lorraine was and because I've had so many experiences that were quite the opposite of this, I think all of us have right Until we find the person. Can you think back to all the bad haircuts, all the ones where you sort of the next day you're like what the heck? Or people are trying to style you and you're like, but I don't really do style and this hair doesn't really stay in a style. Those are all the experiences that lead up to the moment where you say, okay, all I need is this right, simplicity is best.
Speaker 1Responding to what you have naturally, as opposed to imposing upon it yes. That's what I'm trying to teach in classes, and it's the hardest thing to teach the simplicity. Yes, that's what I'm trying to teach in classes, and it's the hardest thing to teach the simplicity. It's the hardest thing to get across. Just respond, as opposed to over-impose.
Speaker 3Well, some of it is age. I'm 51 and you just have to accept who you are at this age right, you can't try to shoehorn yourself.
Speaker 1You look amazing, though your skin is.
Speaker 3Thank you. You can't try to shoehorn yourself into something else. I'm never going to look like Cheryl Ladd. That was the one I loved the most on Charlie's Angels. So you know you just get to that place where you know who you are, mine was. Sarah.
Speaker 1Farrah.
Speaker 3Yeah, farrah Forsyth, I knew I could never be Farrah. I mean those feathers.
Speaker 1Those bangs. So when you travel, you travel easy, Like you don't take too much with you.
Speaker 3No, now I just take a little sample size of terms and conditions and it lasts you. Yeah, it lasts me. I mean, I'm having a little bit of a problem in my house because my younger daughter uses, I think, too much of it. I wouldn't say too much because it looks bad, it looks gorgeous, but we're going through too many bottles and I need her to lay off my conditioner. Right, exactly, but no, it's so easy, right.
Speaker 1You don't need anything Once you get to know your own hair, it's autopilot Easier. Yeah, as a result. Yeah, thank you. Next I love this section is called Calling All Curls. This is where curly girls from all over the world call in and ask me any question they want about curly hair. If your curls could talk. Hi, krista, how are you? It's Lorraine. Hi.
Speaker 5I'm good, thank you.
Speaker 1So where do you live?
Speaker 5I'm in Canada.
Speaker 1Whereabouts Mississauga, Toronto. So if your curls could talk, Krista, what would they say?
Speaker 5They're a bit unruly. You know like and I do have thick hair, I have very thick hair. I never know what's the right product or what's the right method to really get my hair. So that has always been my issue is what's the right method?
Speaker 1Yes. So you're going to have a lovely surprise because Porna, my friend, is going to be the one who's going to be answering your question. She is the star of Never have I Ever.
Speaker 5The actress from Never have I Ever yes.
Speaker 1She's answering your question. She's going to be answering your question.
Speaker 5Okay, great, because actually I started following you because I saw something that she had posted because I really admire how her hair looks and I was like, wow, like what does she do? And then she posted something, and that's how I ended up following your page.
Speaker 1Oh, I'm happy to hear that you found me through Pornas posts. So the first thing you said, which I loved you said my hair is a little unruly and when anybody uses that terminology which people use that a lot when it comes to curly hair, I was reading a book on kids and unruly children and basically unruly children are craving a consistent approach. So if you've got unruly hair, I feel that you're not consistent with it and it's not going to be consistent back with you. You have to almost trust in a very simplistic process. I think 40% is about product, but the rest, the 60%, is really truly about your approach to it and giving it a chance to do its thing.
Speaker 1So I heard you said it was really thick. The products weighed it down. You said it was frizzy. So there's all these things going on. How long does it take for your hair to get wet, really wet?
Speaker 5Really wet, oh gosh, I don't know in terms of like timing.
Speaker 1I do have to stay out of the shower quite a bit, that's all I need to hear, because what that tells me is that the products are not water soluble, so your hair is not getting wet enough, right? And do you color your hair by any chance? No, I don't, right. So I think some of the products that you're using are silicone-induced and oil-induced, so do you put oils in your hair too?
Speaker 5Like once a week, but very, very light, just coconut oil.
Speaker 1Yeah, but once a week, very light is still going into your hair Because I work behind the chair and I see what oil has done to hair and what it did to even my own hair. It stopped it from receiving the moisture it needed. So just once a week. So whatever you put in your hair two months ago, it's still in your hair. That oil is still embedded into your hair. We've got to start getting the oils out of your hair immediately. So just stop that. I promise you you can put oil on your skin, but it's important to acknowledge our hair is a fiber. If oil is not coming out of your clothes, it's certainly not coming out of your hair. Okay.
Speaker 1Okay, it really is true. It's an inconvenient truth. A lot of people get really pissed off when I tell them it's the oil barrier that is stopping your hair from really expressing itself in a more natural, healthy way. If I can get you off that, I feel like we can get somewhere. We can start allowing true moisture in your hair. So conditioners rich in emollients but no silicones. And the way you can figure that out is get your product now and put it in water, and if it's not mixing well, that means it's full of silicones and oils. I promise you our head. It's an organic fiber. It does not need synthetic ingredients to be cleansed or to be impacted because it's unruly.
Speaker 1But this is where I feel like you just need one or two beautiful products, as opposed to 10 products that promise you the world, but you're not seeing a difference in your hair, because our hair speaks louder than words, and that's what porno says too. But you have to stay with the process for a while. Like, an unruly child needs a consistent approach, and so does our hair. It will be different every day, but it doesn't fall far from the tree, and if you feel like it's a little dry or frizzy one day, then you'll just add more conditioner the next. So you'll start to understand what it wants. Like you two will start to become best friends. Right.
Speaker 5And how often should I wash my hair?
Speaker 1So the thing is because you live with your hair and when you say wash I don't know why, but I have this thing about wash I always think of laundry. It's a bit tongue-in-cheek, but I like to say cleanse. So when you cleanse, your hair. Do you use shampoo still?
Speaker 5Yes, I shampoo twice and then I use a conditioner.
Speaker 1Okay, so do you have any thoughts about that now? I do that once a week, so you don't think the shampoo is making your hair dry.
Speaker 5It probably is, and you're doing it twice.
Speaker 1So that's so old school. Because, do you know, on the bottles they used to say rinse and repeat, yes. So okay, krista, trust me with this. Just give me a few months with this. You've got to get rid of your shampoo. I'm sorry, but it's full of soapy detergents and hard cuticles. Right, it dries us out.
Speaker 1Our hair is already dry and this dries us out even more, and it's because we've been told since we were kids that we have to do this. Once hurts hurts, but twice I'm thinking no wonder you've been feeling what you've been feeling, and a part of me is slightly relieved in a weird way, because once I get you off that, you will start to see your hair really have its own personality. So just cleanse with a sulfate-free cleanser. Motion is really what cleanses more than the product. We think it's the product that's cleaning us. It's actually agitationfree cleanser. Motion is really what cleanses more than the product. We think it's the product that's cleaning us. It's actually agitation that cleanses. So if you were to clean a window with Windex and just spray it and leave it, that's not going to clean the window. Your motion is cleaning it. So you could just use water and a newspaper and it'll be clean. So we're cleaning your hair with a gentler substance than a harsher one. So did you ever straighten your hair?
Speaker 5You know, I just feel like it's more effort to keep my hair in its natural state, meaning with the waves. So I tend to just use a curling wand sometimes and just curl it and leave it like that for the week, because I just don't know how to deal with it. Naturally, I'm a mom of two as well, so I don't have time for like a long hair routine. You know what I mean. I need to just be able to come out the shower, put whatever in my hair and go.
Speaker 1Yeah, so you're seeing. Washing your hair twice with shampoo using a curly wand is less time dealing, because even the word dealing means that you don't want to do something. I think you've got to really start to think about your responsibility and why your hair is the way it is. This is how. I am.
Speaker 1I'm tough love. I'm tough love, but I'm doing it. So you're the culprit, I have to say. Then you're using the products that I think. Whatever you're using, it's when you put that hot wand on your hair embeds it, so it's basically laminating the product in your hair too. So your hair, I feel, is a little bit damaged, or a lot damaged, because I always say you can't unfry a steak. So I think we have to do an intervention of some sort. I'm giving you an intervention right now.
Speaker 1So so many people say that, krista, oh, it's so much easier to do the blow fry and do the curling iron because that's what you're used to. You've been in this cycle. It's really just about the fact that this is what you do, this is your routine. So it feels easier than for you to get in the shower, lightly cleanse your hair, condition it, scrunch it upwards, don't touch it, and then it dries beautifully. Everyone thinks the blowout is easier, but actually I'll tell you once you get onto what your hair really is, you'll be shocked as to why you hadn't done this sooner. Great, do you have daughters?
Speaker 5Yes, I have two little ones, they're six and three.
Speaker 1Okay, so you're going to find they're going to watch mom. Are mothers good or bad? You know, in terms of the beauty department, we follow what they're doing, yeah that's a good point.
Speaker 5I mean, like I've pulled out the flat hand before and they're like mom, what are you doing to your hair? You, know and I often think to myself. Oh gosh, how am I explaining this?
Speaker 2You know, like, why is mommy straightening her hair instead of wearing my hair? Naturally, you know what I mean. Yeah, do you have any other questions? No, I think that pretty much covers it All. Right, have a beautiful rest of your day. Thank you so much, and thank you for your time. Take care. Bye-bye.
Embracing Natural Curls With Confidence
Speaker 1As I mentioned earlier, I've asked my dear friend Ponna Jaganathan to offer Krista advice as well. You may know Ponna from Never have I Ever, the Night Of Rami and Big Little Lies. She is also in the feature film Wolves starring Brad Pitt and George Clooney. Porna is a fierce global advocate for ending violence against women. I'm going to call Porna now.
Speaker 4Hello.
Speaker 1Hi Porna.
Speaker 4Lorraine, how are you so good to speak with you.
Speaker 1Where are you today? Where in the world is Porna? I'm in.
Speaker 4LA. I'm in my home in LA. Oh, how are you today? I am wonderful. How are you?
Speaker 1guys doing. We're great, and thank you so much for being on. If your Curls Could Talk, great. And thank you so much for being on. If your Curls Could Talk.
Speaker 4Of course, my absolute pleasure. You know how much I live for you, how are your curls today? I have decided to take the path of not even putting conditioner in my hair. Gorgeous, so just putting that spray you gave me, which has a little bit of conditioner in it, but leaving it as natural for like a completely natural dry as possible.
Speaker 1Beautiful, so no weight on my hair at all. Yeah, so the cuticles are just rising to the occasion and just loving being free, just like your plants in your garden.
Speaker 4That's right, my curls are healthiest at a very particular length. Yes, so last week when I got that haircut from you, it just shifted my relationship with my hair, letting it even air dry or not put any product in it, because the haircut is so conducive to the curls, just doing its own thing 100% and your hair seems to self-organize when there's a tiny bit more length to it and then, when we just oxygenate it every now and again, it just lifts it up completely.
Speaker 1That's right, yeah, so we do have a. We have a question today. Yeah, we had this really beautiful lady. Her name is Krista and her question was what advice can you give a brown East Indian woman such as myself when trying to wear our hair wavy, curly, naturally?
Speaker 4I mean, the best and biggest piece of advice is get a great haircut, just a fantastic haircut, and you know when you're in the chair if it's going to go well or not, depending on if they wash your hair and wet it first or not. So the dry cut is just the way to go. So make sure that the hairdresser is curly trained. I'd say treat yourself once in a lifetime and come and see you in New York. When I got the right haircut, I started wearing my hair curly. It's that simple.
Speaker 4And the right haircut is not only the shape, but there's a very particular length which you learn over time, where the curl can survive with very little fuss. So that's the ideal length. Again, when your hair is cut in a particular way and use minimum products and healthy products and your curls do the talking for you, you get out of its way. You know I often say this with scripts, like if you choose a great script, your job is to get out of its way. You know I often say this with scripts, like if you choose a great script, your job is to get out of the way of it. And so I feel the same way about curls it's a great haircut and then you just let it do its thing.
Speaker 1I love that, Pauna. Thank you so much. So if your curls could talk, what would they actually say to you today?
Speaker 4Oh, they would just tell me that they are the biggest visual for who I am or what my spirit actually is. I like to think of myself as a free thinker and a free spirit. I don't have any need to people please or fit in. I just have a very particular point of view in my life, which is just be a free spirit as much as you can and let things come to you as much as you can. So I think my hair is a visual representation of that. That's beautiful, what I long to be.
Speaker 1All right, my love, I can't wait to see you. Oh, I love you, miss you so much. I miss you too, and I'll see you soon. Thank you, porna. Goodbye. Thanks so much.
Speaker 4Lorraine.
Speaker 1Thank you for listening and thank you to our guest, miriam, and to our calling Krista and my friend Porna Jaganathan. Be sure to follow and share. If your Curls Could Talk wherever you get your podcast, it will mean the world to us and it really makes a difference. If anybody would like to submit a question, please send it to info at curlyworldcom or visit us on Instagram at curlyworldllc. Thank you so much and I'll see you next time. This podcast is produced by my favorite producer, susan Kaplan. Thanks to Dan Strong, our engineer, and to Michael Schuber and Chea Ponte, and a very special thank you to Sorella May for writing and performing our original theme music.
