.png)
If Your Curls Could Talk
Join The Curly Girl Methods founder, Lorraine Massey, on her new podcast, "If Your Curls Could Talk,” a podcast where we celebrate the incredible stories behind every curl, wave, and coil with a diverse array of Lorraine’s notable clients. From hair journeys that reflect resilience and self-expression to the deep-rooted connection between our hair and identity, we explore the human experiences that make each strand unique. Let’s unravel the beauty, struggles, and triumphs that coil us together—one curl at a time. Available on all major podcast platforms.
If Your Curls Could Talk
Curls on Broadway with Mandy Gonzalez
Celebrated actress, singer and author Mandy Gonzalez (who currently stars as Norma Desmond in the hit Broadway production, Sunset Boulevard) joins us for an inspiring discussion about her journey with curly hair and how embracing her natural texture became a source of confidence. Her candid insights reveal how her parents' resilient love story inspired her own fearless path on Broadway, where she has starred in iconic productions like Hamilton and In the Heights. Lorraine speaks with Mandy about her personal journey with breast cancer, which began just before the COVID-19 pandemic. As the first in her family to face this diagnosis, Mandy recounts the importance of her community and the emotional impact of the chemotherapy treatment on her hair.
In Calling All Curls, Lorraine offers practical tips for curly hair care, particularly for those who color their hair, sharing essential advice to preserve moisture and vibrancy. We recorded this episode before the fires, we hope that Marcy, her family and all of our listeners from the LA area are safe. We have posted links to organizations that are helping those in need.
Episode links:
ChemoCouture, https://krystacouture.com
Support for LA Fire Victims:
The Labelle Foundation
Project Hope
Altadena Girls
Gofundme - Donate directly to those affected
+ + +
Lorraine Massey is a curl advocate whose lifelong dedication to understanding and caring for curly hair has helped drive a global phenomenon of curly acceptance. As the founder of the groundbreaking Curly Girl Method, she has empowered countless individuals to embrace their natural texture. Lorraine is also the author of three critically acclaimed books: Curly Girl: The Handbook, Silver Hair: A Handbook, and Curly Kids: The Handbook.
CurlyWorld website:
https://www.curlyworld.com/
CurlyWorld Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/curlyworldllc/
Host: Lorraine Massey
Producer: Susan Kaplan
Engineer: Dan Strong
Original Music: Cyrille Aimee
Show: If Your Curls Could Talk
Hi, I'm Lorraine Massey, founder of the Curly Girl Method. Welcome to If your Curls Could Talk. Join us as we talk to our very special guests, sharing their curly hair journeys, and take questions from you, our listeners. This is If your Curls Could Talk. My guest today is Mandy Gonzalez. She's a singer and an actress and is known for playing incredibly strong women. She is best known for her roles as Nina Rosario in the Heights, Elphaba in Wicked and Angelica Schuyler in Hamilton. It is thrilling for me to announce that she is guest starring as Norma Desmond in Sunset Boulevard on Broadway, and on top of that, she's a prolific author of children's books. I'm excited to share this conversation with you today, Hi Mandy. Thank you for being with us today on If your Girls Could Talk. How are you, Hi Lorraine?
Speaker 2:I'm so thrilled to be here with you. I'm doing great. I'm so excited for you and this new podcast.
Speaker 1:Oh, thank you, Mandy.
Speaker 2:We have been friends for a long time and our friendship started because I did a show with a friend and client of yours, miss Judy Kuhn, and I asked Judy, I said where do you go in New York to get your hair cut? And she said, oh, I have the best person.
Speaker 2:And at that time my hair was really long and curly and I had never gone to anybody that specialized in curly hair or anybody like you, and it was a life-changing experience for me because all of a sudden I felt like my curls were beautiful and that's the first time I really felt like that. I've read your books and the Curly book and I had so many similarities, as do so many curly kids in our world.
Speaker 1:I would love to talk to you about you as a child. I want to know about you being a curly girl when you were little. Do you have any memories?
Speaker 2:I think every curly girl has memories, especially if they are in a family where nobody else has curly hair. A lot of the put downs stemmed from my hair the mean things that your siblings say, and my mom had no idea how to do it, so she would just brush it and then it would just be overly frizzy. This was before hair gel Hair gel was invented. My mother just didn't know what to do, so I was constantly just going around with really short frizzy bangs and really frizzy hair.
Speaker 1:And look at you now. Mandy wrote a book called Fearless, and it's for all kids, all ages, isn't it? Yeah, all kids up to you know 100, I would say I'm just going to let you talk because you are a beacon of hope to so many.
Speaker 2:Oh well, you know, lorraine, my journey with Fearless started. I mean, it's kind of been with me my whole life, I think. Yes, you know I've talked before. I think about how my parents met and my parents met as pen pals during the Vietnam War and my father was drafted when he was 19. My mother was 17 and wanted to join the Peace Corps, but her parents said absolutely not, and so she did the next best thing, which was she wrote to soldiers that maybe didn't have anybody to write to, and one of the soldiers was my dad and he sent her letters and a picture and she was like ooh, and their friendship and their love grew through those letters. At the end of every letter my father said I'm going to survive this and one day we'll be together. Love always, paul, with two L's for the always. And he didn't have much when he ended his time in service, but he had a car and he had an address and he had a sense of direction, thank goodness, and he showed up on my mom's doorstep and when she opened the door her life went in a direction. I think the fearless thing about their story is so much about that, but also the fact that their families were not supportive of their love at first because they were from two different cultures my father's Mexican, my mother's Jewish and at that time it was like really taboo. And so my parents ended up eloping and they had three of us and they've been together now for 50 years. And so I feel like that word fearless has been with me since birth from that story that I guess I follow and I admire so much.
Speaker 2:And then when I got into theater and I started to start my own journey, when I moved to New York City from California, I started to craft how I wanted to live. There's no blueprint how to do what you want to do and how to get your dreams. I start, but I just had this internal drive to move forward. And when I talk about fearlessness and things like that, it's never because I don't have any fear. I definitely have a lot of fear and I'm definitely a fearful person. I'm just the kind of person that chooses to feel that fear while I keep moving forward and that has served me, I think, throughout my life. When I first started in New York on Broadway, I was in the show my first show I think throughout my life when I first started in New York on Broadway. I was in the show. My first show, I think, was Aida.
Speaker 1:That's when we met, I think.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's when we met. So Aida happened and at that time, you know, fans and people that admired you could write to you to the theater. They'd have to write a letter and they would take time to get there and then I would write them back and that would take time. And all of a sudden, now that I'm in this new show, hamilton you know, I started in 2017 with that show and all of a sudden, people can connect with you really fast and right away, you know, through your social channels and things like that, and I had a lot of people reaching out to me with feelings of loneliness, feelings that they didn't belong, and I wanted to do something about it. And so I did and I tweeted out if you don't have a safe space, you can be part of mine.
Speaker 2:And I put hashtag fearless squad and I didn't know that thousands of people would want to be a part of it. So then I became this fearless squad leader and I had to think about fearlessness and to be fearless I think I always put it in this kind of two words to fear less, because I try to do that whenever I can, as often as I can, but I think that it just kind of started. I really took that leadership to heart. Then it was like what do I want to do with this platform that I have? And I had been writing a lot of children's stories and I wanted to create characters that look like me and my friends and tell our stories, but in my way, yes, and so I created the character Monica Garcia, who is an 11-year-old from a small town in California with big dreams of going to Broadway, and she gets that call. She submits a self-tape which you can do nowadays and she gets the call that they want to see her in New York and she becomes the understudy to the understudy on Broadway.
Speaker 1:And I imagine the identity of Marcia Garcia is connected with her hair too, and I imagine this is you, isn't it? It's connected to you.
Speaker 2:Curly hair was something that was so important to me because it was like if I had seen that as a kid, if I had seen another character that I was really into, that also had curly hair and would play with that all the time, didn't know what to do with it, it was just kind of all over the place. I would have been like, oh, I'm not alone. It would have been great that's amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you have the most beautiful curls, but during covid, though, you went through something I mean, would you want to talk about it? Is that okay?
Speaker 2:absolutely, absolutely so. Right before covid, october 22nd of 2019, I went in for my first mammogram and I was diagnosed with breast cancer. I'm the first person in my family to have been diagnosed, so it was a huge shock, as anybody that's been diagnosed with cancer knows. Everything seems like everything happens really fast because you're in a state of shock and you have to circle into all these appointments and figuring out what your plan is, and for me, I think in some ways, that was one of the scariest parts was not knowing what was coming next, not knowing what the plan was For somebody who is such a planner.
Speaker 2:In some ways, I'd like to be busy. I'd like to have some sort of control. This was like totally out of my control and it's silly to say, but one of my biggest fears was losing my hair, because when I found out that I would have to have chemo, that was a big fear of mine, because I have a daughter and I didn't want her to be scared or I wanted to shield her from as much as possible after that diagnosis and my doctor said that I would be on a certain type of chemotherapy where I would lose parts of my hair but not all of it and I wore a cold cap and that really helped. But then, after I was done with my treatment, I had to cut my hair so that it would make less of an impact for the hair that I was losing. And then, as I was healing, and it all happened during pandemic, so I was home and I couldn't go get my haircut, I couldn't get trims or anything like that, so I just kind of had to be with this hair that had been through so much Within this past nine months.
Speaker 2:When I finally got to go and see you, I felt like at that time I was doing a lot of things to try to make myself look like I looked before, because what was happening was that my hair was kind of straightening out in certain places, yeah, and I felt really frustrated by that. That's not who I am. I have curly hair and that's part of my identity. And then I didn't know really what to do, like on my own, so I would just curl it with a curling iron and every time I did that I would be like, oh my God, the rain would be so bad. I was like frying my hair.
Speaker 2:I honestly didn't know what to do. And then when I finally was able to come in, I think as I am even now, like I'm still in a process of healing from something that was very traumatic for me and I talked to you about it I unloaded a lot because I felt like it was a lot pandemic and cancer and all this working stuff, and you were like, okay, I have an idea. And then you just started and you said, oh my God, they're coming back, like your curls are coming back to life. And a lot of people that I became friends with in my support groups and things like that, a lot of people that had lost their hair, it had come back curly, and so Chemo curls.
Speaker 2:I think, yeah, it's just so interesting, my curls and my hair and how that's been a part of my journey too. You know, as a kid and being the only one with curly hair the only person really in my family was my abuelita that had curly hair. It's funny, as I get older I see myself in her. Sometimes when I look in the mirror I go, oh my God, who is that? It looks like my abuelita in so many ways.
Speaker 2:I've been through all of these things. I've become a mom, I've become a working mom, and I went through cancer, we went through pandemic, we have gone through so much and now I feel like my hair is at this place of like we're on this next step and it feels like a little bit of a balance beam. I did have a lot of friends that I looked to during that time, and one of my friends was my friend, krista Rodriguez. Oh yeah, I was a fellow actress and she is a breast cancer survivor and she is somebody that was one of my first calls because I didn't know anybody else in my community that had gone through this, and so it was really important for me to kind of create my fearless squad during this so I could ask questions, and she was so open and she's been so open through everything and she created this website called Chemo Couture.
Speaker 1:Oh, chemo Couture.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's right, and it was so it was so inspiring because she was also young going through it and it was like, okay, well, if I'm going to go through it, I want it to be fashionable and in some ways, her advice that really helped me during my process. When I had to go to my chemo sessions with a mask on and I could wear a cute hat, I could feel like I could bring part of myself into the room, because fashion's always been important to me, and I could paint my nails or I could do things like that and feel good about myself. But had I not had that resource of knowing, had she not been so vulnerable and shared her story, I wouldn't have known that that existed.
Speaker 1:We're so grateful that you're on here and sharing with us. So I just have one question If your curls could talk, what would they say?
Speaker 2:I think my curls would have like a tear in their eye in some ways and would say we're proud of you and we're happy to be with you on this journey.
Speaker 1:I just got goosebumps.
Speaker 2:But I think that they would say that we're proud of you. Oh, that's beautiful. They would say that we're proud of you.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's beautiful, Mundy.
Speaker 2:I'm so, so proud of you, lorraine. Thank you so much, mundy, thank you guys so much for having me on your podcast.
Speaker 1:Next I love this section is called Calling All Curls. This is where curly girls from all over the world call in and ask me any question they want about curly hair. If your girls could talk Hello, we have a caller and what is your name? Hi, my name is Marcy, and where are you from? La, oh, I love LA. I love my hair when I'm in LA. So what is your question today?
Speaker 3:So I've been really trying. By the way, I love your products, I use them. I've been trying to not wash my hair often, and I used to wash my hair every day with the conditioner, just so that it restored the curls. But I realized from one day to the next I can't really sustain the curls and I wonder. It starts to feel a little bit dry and so the curls you know, my hair just then gets a little frizzy. Instead of Defined, yeah, yeah, instead of defined. And so I guess I'm just wondering if I'm doing something wrong, that it's requiring me to rewash my hair in order to get the curl back.
Speaker 1:Yes. So when I hear this, my first question is usually do you color your hair? Because it's like a blind spot. Everything's fine, but we're never thinking color could be the culprit as to why our hair is a little drier. So do you color your hair? Yeah, I do. And how often do you go in and get your hair colored? Probably every six or seven weeks, okay, and is it just the roots?
Speaker 3:You know it's a good question Mostly, but I think actually she does pull color down.
Speaker 1:Okay, and a lot of people like to put a glaze on or a shellac, I call it over the color, which over time that really starts to seal in the cuticle and dry the hair out.
Speaker 1:So it looks great for the first week and then it becomes a glaze and it really starts to take its toll on the hair. It just builds up and builds up, and I am convinced that they're one of the culprits as to why beautiful curly girls that color the hair start to feel this dryness of the hair because the hair's not breathing its own breath, the cuticles are not being allowed to rise in a healthy way.
Speaker 1:So if you can just say, please stop doing that for a while, just color it, we don't need to shellac it. It's not necessary. If you have a really nice color, you don't need to shellac over it. I'm convinced of that. And you've got this lovely routine. You do your co-wash, you've been replenishing it. You don't use sulfates, you don't use silicone. So the one time you go for a color, do they shampoo it too?
Speaker 2:Yes, they do.
Speaker 1:There you go, so you're building up this beautiful thing with your hair. So every six weeks you're doing everything. Great, it's lovely that one time you're going to get a chemical with color and then they shampoo the color off. Why do we shampoo color off when we've just applied it? So, basically, if I was to dye fabric, the last thing I would do 25 minutes. I would then go oh the timer, let me shampoo two thirds of it out.
Speaker 1:It doesn't make logical sense. It is absolutely not necessary to shampoo color off hair, which then you've got two strikes against you. You've got your shampoo and you've got the color. All the good you've done those six weeks prior. We've just knocked it right back down and it's going to start drying out more and more. It's not being able to replenish itself. The hair has history. We carry it around with us. It's like looking at a paleontologist the root, the middle part of your hair, the ends of your hair. You're wearing it every day of your life. So if you can ask them not to use shampoo to color, you're going to see a huge difference. Marcia, I promise you that B-Y-O-B. Bring your own products.
Speaker 3:So after she washes the dye off. She shouldn't wash it, she should just rinse it out.
Speaker 1:No, you can use chamfru for that, but don't tell her it's chamfru. Take a little bottle and just say this is what I want to use. You're not going to see any foam, but I promise you the agitation and the water flushing through the hair will bring the color out. I promise you your color will look better because you're not deoxidizing it immediately at the moment. You've just put it on. It doesn't make any logical sense, and this is the part in hairdressing where I feel like I need logic.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's so interesting.
Speaker 1:And, to be honest with you, a lot of colors have shampoos built in, but the little ingredient list is so tiny that it's so hard to see a lot of the things that are in there. Oh wow, I never thought about that. Nobody does, and that's why I'm here doing this. If your girls could talk, oh my gosh, but you have to be tough because it's your hair. You just say, listen, I don't want to use this shellac and also they charge you for that.
Speaker 3:I know Also you realize that every hairdresser is wonderful they are. They always try to upsell you to buy their products.
Speaker 1:And your hair looks good for a few days, it's like, oh my God, but it begins to erode. It's a slow burn. And then, once you do see it like you do now, and you're seeing it now and you're noticing it, more.
Speaker 3:Now it's taken its toll. Oh interesting.
Speaker 1:But you're going to see a difference, I promise you. Thank you, you're welcome and thank you so much. Thank you Bye-bye. Thanks for your question. Bye, thank you for listening and thank you to our guest, mandy Gonzalez, and our call-in, marcy. For those listeners interested in learning more about the organizations Mandy mentioned, please check out our show notes. Be sure to follow and share. If your Calls Could Talk wherever you get your podcasts, it will mean the world to us and it really makes a difference. If anybody would like to submit a question, please send it to info at curlyworldcom or visitors on Instagram at curlyworldllc. Thank you so much and I'll see you next time. This podcast is produced by my favorite producer, susan Kaplan. Thanks to Dan Strong, our engineer, and to Michael Schubra and Chea Ponte, and a very special thank you to Sorrella May for writing and performing our original theme music.
