S4E8: The Let Them Theory - Motivating other people to change

You can’t make them change

You can love someone deeply and still not be able to change them.

In this episode, we dive into Chapters 14 & 15 of The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins and explore one of the hardest truths in relationships: you can’t make someone else change.

We talk about:

• why pushing, nagging, and giving advice often backfires
• the three truths about motivation (and why change must come from within)
• why people choose short-term comfort over long-term growth
• and how your role isn’t to control – but to influence 

We also break down what actually works instead:
👉 modeling the behavior you want to see
👉 letting go of control (without giving up care)
👉 and using the ABC loop to support change without pressure

Because the shift isn’t:
“How do I make them change?”

It’s:
“How do I show up in a way that makes change possible?”

Let them be who they are.
And let me decide how I show up.

This episode is about influence, boundaries and what real love actually looks like in practice.

📚 Book: The Let Them Theory

📚 Chapters: Motivating other people to change

___________________________________________________________

👯 Hosts: Sofia Stigendal & Marielle Almquist
🎧 Editing: Elmer Hermansson
📲 Follow us on Instagram & TikTok @bookbright_podcast
— and don’t hesitate to reach out with your reflections and thoughts.

BookBright: Review, Rethink & Rewrite your story – one book at a time!

Get a book brief for each episode: https://bookbrightpodcast.com/bookbrief 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

And he said to me for a couple weeks ago, can you help me? And I said, I'm sorry, but no, I cannot do that. You have to do this on your own, because if I help you, you will not get the knowledge about yourself because you are leaning on to me, and it will be up to me for you if you are going to eat healthy or not, and then I will end up disappointed, and that will destroy our relationship.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

Open a page, unlock your mind, grow a little brighter, one book at a time. Stories that change you, wisdom that sticks. Welcome to Book Bright, your personal growth fix.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

Welcome to Book Bright, the podcast that goes old school on personal development. We don't just read books, we live them. One chapter at a time. We're Sophia and Marielle. Two suites, imperfect English included, balancing kids, dogs, and business life while diving into international best sellers. And here's the thing: the book on your nightstand won't change your life until you do something with it. That's why we're here. To unpack, apply, and sometimes stumble our way through the ideas together. On the road to making it applicable, this is personal development. Lived out loud.

SPEAKER_02 1:44

Open a page, unlock your mind. Grow a little brighter, one book at a time. Stories that shape you, wisdom that sticks. Welcome to Book Bright, your personal growth phase.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Welcome to another episode of Book Bright. Right now we're reading The Let Down Theory by Mel Robbins, and we're at chapters 14 and 15 talking about how you motivate other people to change. But before we go into that, let's start our episode as we always do and share some wins. Hi Marielle. Hello, Sopia.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

I really have a win. I have taken an action. Ooh, you have taken an action. Yes. And I have not shared this with you. Oh yet. So you don't know about this. No. Please do share then. Yes. So okay. In the last episode, I talk about that I meditate a lot, you know? And yeah, I've I've been talking about that. And I have been thinking and like I really, really want to create um a retreat, a meditation and silence retreat to for people who are like entrepreneurs or leaders or whatever you are or you are in the world, to really connect with yourself, to get out of the noise and all the information that is floating and take over your mind and all your thoughts to just be, to just um to just exist and to hear the silence, to hear you, and to teach other in meditation. So my action. I have booked I have booked the house in Tus Tuscany in Italy. You have! Yes, I have I booked it yesterday, Pepe Ekmark's house, the whole house for a week. Yes, I have 12 12 uh places, 12 uh spots, yeah, yes, one week in silence and meditation, and I am so excited about this. I just do know felt the feeling like yeah, I'm going to do this.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

Oh my god, yes. I get like I can see like the goosebumps on my arm right now.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

I'm like I'm so excited, and yeah. So when is this? Uh it's next year because it's full fully booked this year. So it's in April of next year. 2020 2027. Oh, yes, and I'm so excited.

SPEAKER_01 4:43

Yes, you should be. Like, oh my god, I did not expect that. Even when you started to say, like, I have booked, like, okay, so I thought you had booked like a tree retreat, but here in Sweden, yeah, somewhere, uh, I was not expecting uh Tuscany. I know.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

Okay, yay, love it, love it, love it, love it, love it. I know, and I'm so excited. And when I I talked to uh my sister about it, like, oh, I booked the house, and she was like, Are you going to do this for your own self? Yep, yep, I am. I'm just going to do it. It feels so right, and I want to do it. I want to give this to other people, and it will be so much fun. And and to see other people evolve and and to just be with themselves in silence. Imagine that go away in that you have been in that house, that environment in Italy. Awesome. And you don't need to talk to anyone.

SPEAKER_01 5:45

Yeah, oh liberating. Like you have been there to this house, to this place before together. And when I was there, I was so I was struck by how gorgeous the nature was. Like looking up at the mountains and just the view, and you know, just the calmness of this location. I think it's going to be so perfect for this. I really do. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

And not talk about life, not talk about visions, not talk about strategies, not talk about anything. You just only take off all the noise and just connect with yourself. Yeah. And free your mind. That's freedom and that's happiness for real.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

Yeah. Oh, I love this. I love this. Oh.

SPEAKER_00 6:42

Yes. So that's my big win this week.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

Oh my god, and you haven't told me.

SPEAKER_00 6:48

I know. I forgot. You forgot that it was yesterday.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

So it was you're forgiven. You're forgiven. Okay, let's. It's okay.

unknown 6:58

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

Okay. Yes. Oh, I love that. Um, I'm like, I just want to hear your yours again, sort of like I don't even want to share mine. I'm like so filled up with yours.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

Oh, can we just talk about Italy?

SPEAKER_01 7:13

Yeah, let's just move to Italy. No, but uh no, but okay, so I'll I'll share my win. Um, and it's just like a small sort of win in the sense of uh recognizing, you know, like you have values and you have sort of uh a platform of who you are, right? But you don't you don't often, I think, like in everyday situations sort of get a reflection of how not having that looks like, which means you're not like in every day that aware of your point of view, maybe, or your like when it when it's a really strict situation, right? But in the everyday, you know? Yeah. So I had this conversation with a parent um who's a parent of my kids um team. They also have kids there, and I was asked something to like they have two teams in my my kid is playing in two teams, right? Floor hockey. And one team is a little bit better and the other team is a bit more struggling, and you know, um the the the competition is not like um as fierce, right? Um so um I was asked like because my my son, he sort of jumps between the different teams. He just wants to play, so he jumps between the teams. And I was asked, like, okay, so how does he handle that? You know, being in that team that meets a meets the opponents on a different level, and doesn't he feel like that is frustrating? And you know, doesn't he feel like you know, and sort of like the parent feeling sorry for him and for me and for the situation? And I just noticed myself being like baffled that you could think like that, because my sort of I said that you know, we always talk about you can learn anything everywhere. So if you're meeting a really good team, you learn something from that, and if you're meeting a team that is not as good, you learn something from that, so you'll always learn something. So that is sort of like the mindset that me and and my son are discussing when he's he's practicing and he's having these games. So my win is more like okay, I got like a chance to see how how hard this belief is within me, because I was really like surprised that you could think anything else, right? Yes, and my win was like, okay, so this is really natural conversation in my family, and I was like really proud of that. Like, you know, you can be tested on your values when there's like something really going on, and there's like an argument or whatever, and you're like, okay, so I'm going to say this and I'm going to make my stand and everything. But like this nuance of just this is how we are. I sort of like that. So that was my win to actually see in myself that okay, so this is such a hard-wired belief of mine that you can always learn. That is so good. That I get sort of shocked or surprised when someone sort of feels sorry for my son being a situation where he plays against people that are not as good. Yeah, so that was my win.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

It's really it's a really, really good insight.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

Yeah, it was just like, you know, a couple of seconds, but it just flipped something with within me. Like, okay. Interesting. So I am really hardwired within this. And my son has never ever complained about regardless of which team he's meeting, he just finds it fun to play.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

That's good. And the first step is awareness.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

Of the limited beliefs.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

Yeah. Yeah. So that was sort of yeah. So that was my win. Just noticing that about myself. So good.

unknown 11:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Thank you for sharing. Yeah. Now let's go to Tuscany. Yeah.

unknown 11:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Oh, I love it. Okay. But should I um it sort of uh fits into this motiving motivating other people to change, like the theme of this episode. Uh so maybe I should just sort of get on with it. Yes, do that. Okay, thank you. Uh okay, so the theme for this episode is motivating other people to change. And it's chapter 14 and 15. People only change when they feel like it and unlock the power of your influence. So, no surprise then, this it's going to be about change because most of us go through life wanting change, maybe not always just for ourselves, but also for the people that we love that are surrounding us. We want our partner to communicate better, or our parents to become healthier, or maybe our sibling to finally find that right person and not just settle. And in wanting this, we do what feels natural, what comes natural to us. We push, we give advice, we nag. But when we do this, people will push back because we're actually working against a fundamental, a fundamental law of human nature, and that is that people need to feel in control of their own decisions. And Mel serves us a hard truth here: that you cannot make someone else change, but you can influence them. And so that's what these chapters are about. And to understand how we can influence others, we need to first understand like three fundamental truths about motivation. And the first one is that adults can only change when they want to. The feeling of wanting to become healthier or wanting to find that right person or wanting to communicate better, it has to come from within. And the second truth is that we are wired to choose pleasure over pain. So that means we're always seeking what feels good and avoiding what hurts. So, for example, we're choosing the chocolate right now in the sofa, watching that TV series for the pleasure of it instead of the workout for the long run health. And truth number three, everyone thinks they're the exceptions. So we all believe that we are special and that bad things won't happen to us specifically. So that's why threats and negative information that you serve your loved one or your friend about their changes, it will never work. So it really comes down to one thing looking at these different truths. It is how we show up for each other. Because nobody wants to be pressured by the people that they love. We all just want unconditional love and acceptance for who we are. And here's where the let them theory comes into play. Because how you do this is you let them be. You focus on the only thing that you can control, and that is yourself. You model the behavior you want to see in the other person that you love, because if you lead the way through your own life, it can influence them over time. It's not a guarantee, but it can influence them over time. And she says that, you know, give it at least six months of you modeling the behavior that you want to see, like how you want the communication to look like, like how you set standards when it comes to relationships or how you take care of your health, regardless of like if that is what you want to see in the other person. And if you give it six months where you let them and you focus on yourself, on modeling a behavior and attitude that works for you, um, that will give them the time to sort of process it and sort of adapt it. Um and you have to remember that you don't have you can't have like a hidden agenda here to make them change, because that will only make you bitter if they actually don't change. Um, and she also brings up this tool. If you want to influence someone in this way, you can use the ABC loop, which is a tool that Mel has developed. And I will just go into that shortly, but I'm just curious, is there anything, Marielle, that you want to say here that you sort of reacted to in regards to the truths or anything else?

SPEAKER_00 17:07

Um yeah, it's so yeah, it's so true that what she's talking about and what you are saying. I don't know if we if I want to reflect on it now or if I want to do it later. Yeah, I think I want the whole package, the whole list first. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

If that's okay, it is okay, it there's not that much left. I'm just like yeah, introducing the ABC loop.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

Do that, and then we can okay. Because I have a reflection.

SPEAKER_01 17:37

Yes. Okay, so before I actually introduce the ABC loop, and before you use that, the first thing that you do have to do is to be brutally honest with yourself. Like, why does it really bother you that this person behaves this way? You ask yourself, why does this bother me? And when you have an answer, you ask the same question again, connected to that answer, and you do this five times or more to truly come to the bottom of what it's all about. Because it might start with you wanting to make them take better care of themselves to be healthy, but diving into the why of that answer and to those uh to come again and again those answers, it just might land in you finding out that you're that you're word to be left alone. Like if they don't take care of themselves, they might not, they might have so much health problems that they will uh die early or something like that, and you will be left alone. So that might be like what you conclude after having gone deeper into why does this bother you? Because this conflict is ultimately about you, it's not about them. You don't need to share your final findings with them if you don't want to, or anyone else if you don't want to, but this exercise is only so that you can get to the bottom of your frustration and see your own need for control in this sort of um situation that you're in where you want the other person to change. And this in turn will prepare you to have a genuine conversation with your friend or your loved one about what it is you want them to change. And now this is where the ABC loop comes in. So the first step, step A, is to apologize and ask open-ended questions. So you start by apologizing for your own behavior in this, for your nagging, for your being all over them with like questions and like rolling your eyes or whatever, because they're not doing the changes that you want them to do. And when you have done that, when you have apologized for your behavior and what you have done, uh you start to ask them open-ended questions. And the idea with that is that when you get the person to talk about how they feel, they'll start to notice the gap between what they actually want and how they're actually behaving. So the key is always to ask the open-ended questions. You don't add your own opinions and just like repeat back what they just said. Like questions like, how do you feel about that? Or it sounds like, I hear you say that. So this is about them, not you. You're just a tool to help them move forward in their own thinking. And they might not be completely honest with their answers, that's okay. They might not tell you what they have realized, that is also okay. This is a time for let them talk and have their process. So that was step A in the ABC loop. Apologize and ask open-ended questions. Step B is back off and observe. So after your conversation and your questions, your your friend or your loved one needs time to sort of just process this and to land in what your conversation was about. So most likely they will not just rush off and start the change. So here's the absolute crucial thing that you back off and you let them be. Doing this will allow them to come to the idea themselves. And it allows attention in them to transform into motivation when they're not having to sort of react to your nagging and stuff like that. When they just have the tension within themselves, it will transform into motivation. And then step C celebrate progress. Because whenever your friend or loved ones take, like even the most smallest step forward, you should celebrate it. And you can do that by giving them a hug, a kiss, a high five, or just tell them that you're proud of them. Like your power is your positive influence in this situation. And you know, she says it out loud that, you know, they might not change right away. They might change in a week, in a year, or they may in fact never change. And all of that is perfectly fine. It is okay. And if six months have passed and nothing has changed, you need to decide for yourself if this is something that you can live with. But here's the most important thing: the change that matters in any relationship is the one you control, your own. You change how you show up. You stop pressuring the person you love and become more loving instead. This is the path to having that sort of relationship that you want with this friend or loved one. Okay, so that was like the two chapters on how you um motivate other people to change.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Yes. Ooh, this is an important one. And I can so relate to these chapters. Um, and yes, okay, so I just want to share about my life with Jonas and O Time. And this this really hits me when I look back. We I have we have been together for 18 or 19 years now, okay? Yes. And I am a person that is known as my discipline, and I have this periods of time when I'm really disciplined with food and as nutritions, and yeah. And he is not that disciplined, and he's eating junk foods and stuff, you know. And a couple of many years ago, I had this one, this really uh nugging feeling about like, can why can't you just eat healthy food and just lose some weight? Because I was really concerned about his health, and you know, to develop like um what is it called? Like yeah, disease and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

Yeah, some that's sort of visit that for me.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

Yeah, and I was on him all the time. You have to eat healthy food, you have to eat healthy food, and he said, Yes, I hear and he wants it in his head, yeah, but he cannot, he couldn't do it, you know. Yeah, and he started to eat healthy, and I helped him, and you know, yes, and then he failed, and I was so disappointed so many times we were in this cycle, and then I reached a point in our life, like, okay, this is taking too much energy for me, and it and it's eating up my feelings. So I asked myself, is this a deal breaker? No, it's not a deal breaker, so let it go. Yeah, and I didn't know that I used the let them because the let them didn't exist that but I used the let him. Okay, so this is up to him, and I do me, he do he with the nutrition and the training and stuff, and and now and he has been really struggling with this over time, but I don't care. Uh and now he's in this period that he really like, no, I cannot do it. I have to eat healthy, my body is collapsing. And he said to me for a couple of weeks ago, can you help me? And I said, I'm sorry, but no, I cannot do that. You have to do this on your own because if I help you, I will be you will not get the knowledge about yourself because you are leaning on to me, and it will be up to me for you if you are going to eat healthy or not, and then I will end up disappointed, and that will destroy our relationship. Yeah, so you have to, if you want to do the change, you have to do it on your own. I'm here to support you, but I cannot help you in that way.

SPEAKER_01 27:17

And especially, I think, like I'm just throwing it out here, especially as I think that you have done this before, like you have gone through this sort of pattern before of like you helping, you fixing, and you're laying the groundwork, and then he not being able to process it right then. Uh so if you do that again, it might also sort of trigger something within him to more or less like take a step back from the the progress that he has already made. But not because he wants to, of course not, but just because you sort of have done this loop several times, right? Yeah, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

So yeah, okay, yeah, so good. That yeah, so that's that's a really that's a really good one and a powerful one, and just to let him do and and at one point he he asked me, he said to me because he was so disappointed at himself, and he said, Why can't I can I just not do it? Why doesn't it work? And I said to him, That's because you don't have the big why inside of you. You need to feel the big why. Why are you going to change? It's you are not motivated to to have a six pack, and you don't need to have a six pack, but maybe you can be motivated by uh to not have the all the disease or yeah, something else. That's that's something you need to find in yourself. What is your biggest why? Why is it important for you?

SPEAKER_01 28:54

Yeah, oh that is so true, and I mean I mean, in many ways, I have been Jonas, like I have been Jonas, like I have actually been like working out, taking care of myself for several years, but then I sort of I'm not I'm sort of dipping sometimes, and then I hit pre-menopause, and you know, like I don't know what is going on with that, but that is not helpful in this situation. Um and I sort of sort of lost like the the button which you press on to sort of kickstart you, or to you know, when you go out for a walk and you sort of like get a kick out of the nature and the sun and being out in the fresh air, I don't have that anymore. I don't know, it's gone. So I'm struggling a little bit more. And then I have like I have my my husband and like he is so fit. Like he runs like like 10. No, not 10, like okay, so yeah, I can't say miles because that is something else in English.

SPEAKER_00 30:08

Oh, one mile is 1.6 kilometers, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

And I can't even translate that.

SPEAKER_00 30:14

You don't need to.

SPEAKER_01 30:15

So he runs 50k each week, just like going out running. Um, and I don't do that. And he he, I mean, he is like the perfect modeling of a behavior of being healthy, and he like he's not really interested in to candy and stuff like that. And he also has like if he eats some candy, he can stop. I don't have that either. And I don't have a stop button, I just continue. Yeah, um, but and first off, I just want to say, like, okay, so I have actually reflected on how appreciating it is to have him not nag me. Like, he could be saying, like, okay, Sophia, you have to shape up, you have to do this, I am doing all the cooking, you could eat like this really nutritious food and you know, all of that, and you could like take a walk with me, you could do all of this. He's not doing that. He's like, I am here if there is anything, but yeah, I'm not nagging it. But then when you said like this, uh, the reason as to why, I think that for the first time in my life, I actually do need more of a reason, like a huge reason, something that actually feels that I can feel like that sort of uh tension in my body if I do not fulfill it. Yeah. And I was thinking of a conversation that I had with my husband like two weeks ago because we were uh skiing, and I am the best skier in our family. Uh-da! Da company. Just had to say that. Uh, and you know, we have three kids, and my middle kid and I, we really like to, you know, hit the big slopes and stuff like that. And my youngest, he's still sort of learning. So this year was the first time he was sort of with us a little bit more. And my oldest son, he cannot like in the same way because of his vision, his impaired wish vision, and sort of like the motoric skills, not in the same way ski, right? So when I'm skiing with him, I have to hold him, like I have to hold him, and I am the one who's making us turn, yeah, and I am the one who's making us stop. Okay, yeah. And last year when we did this, and every other year that we've done this, I have been like in great shape, right? So I have been like really strong and I can do this, right? And this year, uh I could still do it, but it was such a struggle, you know? Yeah, like we went down this this slope and I was literally thinking whilst skiing, like, oh my god, who I am a bit like I'm not scared, but I'm not totally comfortable, right? So a bit nervous, right? Yeah, and uh we actually fell and have never, I mean, I don't fall, like okay. Uh no, I'm I'm being more cocky than I no, I'm being more cocky than I need to be. But you know, we fell and I had problems getting up, right? Because my back muscles and my core muscles were not there like they used to be, and that was such a big wake-up call for me. And I was talking to my husband, and I was like, okay, so this was a bit scary, and I don't like it. And he was like, Okay, so maybe this is what you sort of need to have in front of you when you do take a walk or you do stuff because of next year, right? Yes, so next year I I want to be able to give him that experience, and I will not be able to do that if I continue not taking my exercise serious and eating candy.

SPEAKER_00 34:45

That's a really, really good why, and also that he's not getting smaller, he is growing. He's growing, exactly getting heavier, yeah. Yeah, that's really, really that's a strong and good why.

SPEAKER_01 35:01

Yeah. And it's also, I mean, it's not like it's not like 10 years from now, or you know, it's not like saying that I want to be in the best shape for my grandkids that are that's like way in the future. Like this is this is just a year from now, yeah, right? When when you're thinking about what she said about like, okay, so um we always choose pleasure over pain, sort of. Yes. Uh and this sort of pain is the pain of not being able to to take him down the mountain, that is just a couple of months away, right?

SPEAKER_00 35:43

Yeah, yeah, yes, and and that is also when you have that like okay, for a year, that pain it is to not be in shape to help him, that that pain, that feeling of that pain is bigger than the pleasure of the of the now. Yeah. When the when when the pain is bigger and the feeling is bigger, it's you are always motivated to go to the biggest feeling.

SPEAKER_01 36:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

Like, and you can also feel the good part, the positive part, of course. You don't need to feel like pain, and you can also make it for the positive.

SPEAKER_01 36:27

Like just yeah, exactly. Like seeing us going down the mountain and being effortless and it's in flow and everything like that, of course.

SPEAKER_00 36:34

The important thing is that that feeling needs to be bigger than the feeling you have right here and now for the candy in front of you.

SPEAKER_01 36:44

Exactly. Yeah, and sitting in the sofa instead of taking a walk. Yeah, exactly. And I mean, I have like thinking of it, I have more of these sort of whys, but it's also connected to him, to that son. Uh, I said it in a previous episode uh that you know now he has epilepsy again, and after a seizure, he gets like really I mean you don't have the bodily bodily control of your arms and your legs and stuff like that when your body had just had a seizure. Um and I remember like at one of these when when he had a seizure, like the first time when it came back, my my uh he had it on the second floor of our house. And my uh when he sort of came around afterwards, we had to go into the hospital and the ambulance was there and everything. And you know, my son was like, okay, so I want to go by myself down to the first floor, but he was not aware of that he could not do that, right? Because his his arms, his legs were not really up for it. And then my husband, and I mean my son is 14, right? So my husband went behind him, holding him under his arms, like propping him up and walking him down the stairs. And the only reason my husband can do that was because he has been working out a lot. Yes, and I I was thinking like, okay, if I had been alone with him, I could never ever in a million years have done that securely. Like now I was not even like I was not worried at all because my husband had such control of the situation, and in this situation, of course, like the ambulance personnel, they could have had like a ramp or something like that. They have would have, but it it's so much more complicated than being in the safe arms of your parent, right? Yes, and just realizing that also like okay, if he has seizures, I am not in the physical shape that I actually can take care of him afterwards in the best possible way, and that sort of hits hard as well.

SPEAKER_00 39:20

Yes, yeah, you have a really strong why wise, yeah, that's really good, it's good insight, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:28

Yeah, and I can see like you know, this is just a small thing, but today I'm sitting here drinking water and I haven't done that for so long, and that's just like a tiny, tiny thing. I know that it has nothing to do with like the actual strength, but it has to do with my well-being and how good my my body feels. Um, so yeah, good, really good to share that.

SPEAKER_00 39:56

Yeah, I I also want to share one more thing with about Jumnas, and this is something that actually worked that Jamel says it shouldn't be working. Oh, okay. So, yes, and it was yeah, also so many years ago, back in the days when we were young, we were smokers, believe it or not. I have been I know, but then uh so I smoked for a couple of years and then I stopped. And Jonas continued to do that, and I had the discipline to stop, and when he was smoking, it smells so uh you know, yeah, yeah. And I I asked myself again, is this a deal breaker? And then I said to him, This is a deal breaker, I want you and I pushed him. Yeah, he has he had tried to stop so many times, but he didn't, and I said, I want you to stop. If you don't stop smoking, I will leave you. And he really took that and he stopped and haven't smoked since then. Yeah, and he was a really, really he really really smoked a lot, you know. He was that person that everyone around said he's not going to he don't he cannot stop. Yeah, he's not going to do it, he's going to smoke his entire life, but he he did stop. So it worked at that time, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:36

But I think that maybe also be like, okay, so it has to be something about like with the energy with which you say something, and how how determined yourself are with that, because there's so many people also saying, like, okay, so if you don't do this, I will leave you, if you don't do this, I will do that, and then you know, they don't follow through. Yeah, so it doesn't mean anything, and you sort of can tell that by just you know the way you have that conversation, yes, the first time, yeah. The energy behind it, and like, okay, so are you confident in what you're saying? And I think you can sense that, I think you can feel that. Yep. So, in some way, I don't think it is quite the same. Like, no, maybe not.

SPEAKER_00 42:26

He find his why.

SPEAKER_01 42:28

Yeah, exactly. He found his why, like, okay, so it's I'm going to regret more that Marielle is leaving me because I wanted to smoke than smoking is important to me. Like something like that. Yes. And like you had really thought about okay, is this a deal breaker? Well, this time this is right. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:55

So yeah. Yeah. That's okay. Yeah. But but just a quick about the ABC loop. Yeah. Something that I kind of not, I don't know, like, or you have to do it in the right way. It's when in the A, when you yeah, apologize and blah blah blah. Of course, but ask questions. Yeah. Well, don't do that too much and too obvious.

unknown 43:21

No.

SPEAKER_00 43:21

Because how do you feel about that? And why do you do that? That would just make the person in front of you really, really mad. Because that that's a triggering thing.

SPEAKER_01 43:34

Yeah. I thought the same when I read it, and I was like, okay, so this could be a bit triggering, but I I think that's why it's also important to really have that sort of conversation with yourself before you have the conversation with someone else. Oh, yeah. Because if you haven't had the conversation with yourself as to what is my part in this and why am I being frustrated about this, those questions will be more sort of. Like attacking, right? They will have sort of that frustration within them that you have concerning the subject. And I think that if you do the work beforehand and you sort of like, okay, so double down on why is this frustrating for me and what about this situation is more about my control than it is about the other person's habit, you I think you sort of shrink that sort of attacking mode in those questions. But I totally agree with you that like okay, it's not if you don't just ask a lot of questions, like okay, that's just about it. Yeah. So think about it a bit. So it's not just like you sitting there pumping out questions.

SPEAKER_00 44:47

No, exactly. And I use it now uh with Jonas when he now he is eating uh healthy food, and he said that oh, I um I I have one day he said I've got five days in a row or something like that. Yeah, and I said, Oh, that's good because I have to share him. It's like that's good, I support. But then I asked him, okay, so how do you feel in your body? Yeah, how does it feel in your body now now after these five days? Just for him to be aware of and to feel like I'm feeling really, really good and strong. Checking in, like checking in with your feelings, so he can take that feeling with him, but that's another question, another, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:30

A different type of question.

SPEAKER_01 45:32

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and and the questions that we're talking about now, that was like just in the beginning of the conversation of why you want someone to change, and you know, like that, and then modeling and stuff like that. And you were in the face of celebrating the C part of the ABC loop. Yes, yeah. Okay, I don't know if we have anything more right now uh when it comes to this. I would love to hear from you who are listening. Like, how have you approached this? Because I think it is sort of a sensitive topic sometimes. Like, yeah, we do want our people around us to behave in a certain way, uh, and it is hard sometimes to sort of let go of those well-meaning advices that sort of are more like a nag. Um so just be curious about you who are listening. What have you experienced? Have you adopted this? Uh, could this be something that you could adopt? Or, you know, just be curious about that. Um, but I don't know. Do you have anything more to say, or should I just wrap it up? Wrap it up. Wrap it up. Okay, so as always, we just want to leave you with these uh three questions. Number one, what is your biggest takeaway from this episode, or having read the chapters themselves, what are your biggest takeaway? And number two, why? Why is that so important to you right here, right now? And finally, what kind of small action can you implement today when it comes to this or in very close uh uh future? Like, what is a small step that you could take to make this um learning that you got from this episode or from the chapters a reality? Okay, so having said that, I hope you continue to read the book, I hope you continue to show up for these episodes, and I'll see you, we'll see you uh next week. Yes, bye. Bye.