S4E9: The Let Them Theory - Helping someone who is struggling

The More You Rescue, The More They Sink

Helping someone you love can feel right…but what if it’s actually keeping them stuck?

In this episode, we dive into Chapters 16 & 17 of The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins – and unpack one of the hardest truths in relationships: sometimes helping is the problem.

We talk about:

• why rescuing people can take away their ability to change
• how real change only happens when they are ready
• why comfort keeps people stuck and struggle creates movement
• and the difficult balance between support and enabling 

We also go deeper into what support actually looks like in real life:
👉 when giving money helps and when it makes things worse
👉 why boundaries can be the most loving thing you do
👉 and how small actions (like showing up, cooking a meal, or taking a walk together) can matter more than advice

And maybe the hardest part of all:
letting someone you love face consequences you wish you could take away.

Because love isn’t always soft.
Sometimes it’s holding the line.
Sometimes it’s stepping back.

Let them struggle.
And let me support – the right way.

📚 Book: The Let Them Theory

📚 Chapters: Helping someone who is struggling

___________________________________________________________

👯 Hosts: Sofia Stigendal & Marielle Almquist
🎧 Editing: Elmer Hermansson
📲 Follow us on Instagram & TikTok @bookbright_podcast
— and don’t hesitate to reach out with your reflections and thoughts.

BookBright: Review, Rethink & Rewrite your story – one book at a time!

Get a book brief for each episode: https://bookbrightpodcast.com/bookbrief 

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:01

Welcome, welcome to a new episode of Book Bright. We are deeping dive, dive, deeping, deeping dive into the let them theory by Mel Robbins. And today we are talking about chapter 16 and 17. So welcome and welcome, Sophia. I'm so glad to see you.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

And you too. I'm fine. I'm a bit tired today, as I told you just before we put on record. But I think it's the change of seasons and stuff like that, you know? We're changing season right now. And I think that's sort of like, you know, I get more energy, but then I still sort of like the body's not used to all that energy. Yes. So I get tired from that.

SPEAKER_04 0:52

Yeah. When we are exposing us for this sunlight that we aren't used to.

SPEAKER_03 0:58

Yeah. Yeah. For the past month.

SPEAKER_04 1:02

The body got really tired. Yeah. That's uh normal, I think.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Yeah. And I think it's normal to sort of yeah. And also that, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:12

Is it pollen in in English? Pollen?

SPEAKER_00 1:15

I have no idea. Like the things that come from trees. Yeah. In the springtime, which makes you sneeze.

unknown 1:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:23

The allergic thing. Yeah. Pollen isn't the right word, you know what we mean.

SPEAKER_03 1:28

Yeah. Weird. So weird.

SPEAKER_04 1:33

Okay, how about you? Oh, I'm good. I'm really good. I'm actually I it's Friday, and I'm so really oh love to sitting here with you. And we have been chit-chatting for like an hour before we hit the rec bottom. And I just I just love our Fridays.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

It's a special state, right? It's like a special state in your body knowing it's Friday and knowing that you get to do this with your best friend and doing like diving into different aspects of personal development or being challenged. And yes, you know, I just love that. Yeah, so yeah. Special. Special.

SPEAKER_04 2:17

Yeah, special. Okay, but we will start with um our wins. Wins for the week. So, what are your wins, Sophia? I'm so I'm so curious, I'm exciting. What are you?

SPEAKER_00 2:29

Yeah. Like last week you said a win that I had no clue about uh that you had done. So this week, I also have a win that you actually don't have a clue about. Um, but it's not like the same sort of big action taking, uh, it's not that, but I have done, I finished something that I uh have been doing for a couple of weeks now. I finished uh NLP practitioner. Wow, yeah. So learning NLP. Oh yeah, and like I have always been drawn to that area because there's a lot of like language and nuances in how you say things and uh how you work with your subconscious through language, and I'm sort of like a language nerd. Um, so I've always sort of wanted to do that. Uh and I signed up for a course and I finished the course yesterday. But what wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Wait, wait, wait.

SPEAKER_04 3:41

I'm like in shock. Like I'm not I'm in shock, but at the same time not.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Yeah. I have talked to you about like I wanted to do this and I have had my eyes on it and stuff like that. I just didn't tell you that I actually went on it. Um, but there's been, I mean, this is the period where there's been so much going on. Um you know, with my father-in-law and my son having epilepsy and stuff, so we haven't been talking as much.

SPEAKER_04 4:10

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

Um, and then the focus has been mainly on that. So that is what I've been doing. I've been doing the NLP course and I've been sort of trying to deal with my private life.

SPEAKER_04 4:20

Yeah, yeah. But what but when I do when did you start?

SPEAKER_00 4:25

Uh I started four weeks ago. Four weeks. Yeah. Yeah, four weeks. So it's a four-week course.

SPEAKER_04 4:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

Yeah. Yeah. Wait a minute.

SPEAKER_04 5:06

I'm so excited for you.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

Yeah. It was so exciting to do this. And, you know, I did it in English. Wow. Yeah. So way out of my comfort zone when it comes to I mean, it's one thing to sit like this and talk. It's just you and me. And, you know, it's just our thoughts every day thinking of the book that we're reading. It's a whole nother thing to sort of like do a course in English which is really focused on the language, on how you say things, and it's sort of like hypnotic language at some situations as well. Like, okay, and doing that in English. So I've been out of my comfort zone for sure, I can tell you. And you know, I'm I don't really like to be like a coach or anything like that, and all the other participants are coaches. Uh, so yeah, it was one other person from Sweden, and then there were just people from the UK, but they were really nice about us to, you know, sort of sometimes struggling with the language and stuff. So it was fine. Wow, I'm so impressed.

SPEAKER_04 6:24

I have so many questions, but we we cannot talk about it. No, we cannot talk about it. But now I'm an NLP practitioner. Yes, we have to talk about this later today.

SPEAKER_03 6:40

Yes, yes, because I want to know everything. I'm so curious.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Yes, and I want to uh practice some things on you as well.

SPEAKER_03 6:50

So yes, yes, yes, yes. Oh, I'm so excited. Can I have this also for my word? Sure.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

I'm so glad for you. Yeah, I think this is really a good thing, and I mean the reason as to why I wanted to do this, it's not only because I'm a nerd, but it's also that I'm always I'm always looking for like tools and stuff, not only to sort of upgrade myself or to understand myself, but also to understand my kids and primarily my oldest son. Like, are there any tools I can use here? Is there anything I can do? And like being a parent in general and being a parent where there are special needs involved, you do need to work on yourself a lot. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. So that is the main reason as to why I went in. Like, okay, is this something I can use? And there are things, there are things.

SPEAKER_04 7:54

Oh, so exciting. It's uh because I I do not NLP, but it's like connected, not connected, it's um in the same area, but I think in different ways. So I'm so curious about how it is behind the scenes and and yeah, oh, I'm so glad.

SPEAKER_00 8:16

I'm so happy. Good for you. Well, thank you. Thank you. I finally did it, like yes. Okay, but back to you now. If you're not choosing this to be your win, okay.

SPEAKER_04 8:29

But that is one win, but I can I can have one more. So I'm I'm not having that deep one this week either. Uh last week with I talked about and that uh Tuscany and my silent retreat, and this week I have finished the website and and the whole branding about it, and I'm so so I you know, I I'm I have butterflies.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Yeah. You're just glowing when you're talking about this. It's so awesome to see.

SPEAKER_03 9:00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:01

Um, it's so I'm so excited, excited to have this retreat. But the win, the win. Uh so I am doing this with my partner Jonas because he's kind of the behind-the-scenes guy, you know. He is doing all the tech thing and um the content thing with pictures and um videos and stuff. So he said that okay, we have to go to Tuscany and to this house at Pepes next month. I booked the trip and we will go so we can do all this material that you need uh to your to your content and website and things. So I'm so excited. So I'm I'm going to Italy next month.

SPEAKER_03 9:51

I'm just like, yay! Me and Jonas, and just four days to just be there. Yeah, yeah. Oh wow, it's so awesome!

SPEAKER_00 10:01

You know, like listening to you, there are so many wins within that win, like just listening to you, like what a what a way to live your life to actually have your partner doing that together with you, yeah, and having that opportunity to just go away like that. It's such a win in itself, yes, and yeah, I'm so happy for you. I said it last week, I'm so in awe, I am so impressed, I am so happy for you, and you're like the the poster child for taking action.

SPEAKER_04 10:34

Yeah, yeah, and yes, oh thank you. Oh, I'm and and that is also if I just I I share it with you, I talk to you, like when your reaction and your support and your love in this to me, it's means a lot. You are like the the most important person. The person that the reaction is like meaning the most to me. I don't I'm not that person that cares about what other people say and think, and you know, but yeah, it really, really warmed my heart when you when you when when your reaction is like that happy that you are so happy for me.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

Yeah, of course, I'm so happy for you. Like I'm true, I and I have been thinking about this like the whole week that you have booked it and you're doing this, and it feels so aligned with who you are, and just you know, everything. I'm so impressed, and I'm so happy, and I'm like, oh, it's almost like it's my trip, but it's not, but yes. Oh that's going to be awesome. Yes, oh yeah, so that was my wins, not the deep ones, but really happy ones, and yeah, oh yes, and that's yeah, that that you you should never like sort of underestimate a win that makes you happy for the love of God. I mean, come on. If that is not deep, I don't know what is. If it transforms your sort of feelings and makes you really happy, it could not be deeper. Uh no, in one sense, that's true, that's true.

SPEAKER_03 12:24

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

But you and me have been sort of like just going off it here um and talking a lot now. So maybe we should just sort of focus on the book. All right. That's why we're actually podcasting.

SPEAKER_03 12:38

So which book? No, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:42

All right, and it's my chapters. Um yeah. So I just want to remind you who are listening, if you if you have forgotten, it's uh Let them Theory by Mel Robbins that we are reading. Yes, and it's chapter 16 and 17. And chapter 16. The title of the of chapter 16 is The More You Rescue, the More They Sink. Yes. Alright then. So in chapter 16, Mel Robbins talks about something a lot of us do without even realizing it. And that is that we so many times try to help the people we care about by rescuing them from their problems. For example, when we are giving advice right away, we're fixing things for them or trying to make them feel better as quickly as possible, and it feels like we're helping, but Mel says that it often does the opposite. Because when you step in and rescue someone, you take away their chance to take responsibility and figure things out for themselves, and over time that can make them more dependent on you instead of building their own strength. So this is very, very important. And it's also important that I have to say, I've really felt like okay, so I have to say it because she's mentioned it in the book that there is a fine line here. If someone is doing something really dangerous or self-destructive, like I don't know, they they are drunk and taking the car or doing drugs or put themselves or others to a risk, you have to step in, of course. That's not where you are going to let them do what they are doing. No.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

Oh, let them take the keys to the car and be drunk and just go off. No, let's not do that.

SPEAKER_03 14:53

Take them to the I don't know, to the psycho house.

SPEAKER_04 14:58

You have to help them, of course, when they are when it's a dangerous and they are putting themselves out of a risk. You have to set that boundaries and getting some help. Okay, so I just want to say that. But if we're not talking about that dangerous zone, uh the most situations in life aren't like that. And in those cases, melt is very clear here. The more you try to rescue someone, the more you're you risk keeping them stuck. Yes. Like if you keep giving money to an adult child who isn't taking responsibility for their life, it feels like you help, but but what you are really doing is making it easier for them to avoid change. And this leads to a really important insight. People don't change because someone else wants them to. They change when they are ready, and most of the and most of the time you will you will be ready long before they are, so you have to be patient and you have to wait until they are ready. As long as things are comfortable enough for them, nothing will shift. And you have to know that. And this is the key point. Real change happens when staying the same becomes more painful than changing. So for example, think about addiction. Someone doesn't get sober because other people want them to. They change when the pain of continuing drinking alcohol becomes greater and bigger than the discomfort of facing what they've been avoiding. That's when something finally shifts. If I just pause just two seconds, Sophia, could you take that in? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. When the pain is when the pain of being drunk is so much bigger, that's when the shifting point happens. That's when you realize like I cannot live like this. So they really need to go to that bottom rock.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

Yeah, they have to sort of meet themselves, as you say, at rock bottom and like see the darkness in them or something. I don't know. Like, um, because I think there's even some research on this, like um that I read somewhere else, like Brene Brown or someone told me, or told me, uh, I had a conversation with Brene Brown. But that's awesome. Isn't that a win? Yeah, that's a huge win. Uh no, but I heard her on the podcast. Okay. Um, but I think she said something to the likes of this that, you know, we can there's research showing that people like even when they are told by the doctor that, you know, if you do not change, you will die, right? Even when they know that, and they know that the the food that they are putting in themselves or the alcohol or whatever is slowly killing them, it's not until they set themselves sort of feel that pain of that. Some people feel it when the doctors say you're going to die, right? But not everyone. And that's like the whole conversation then was like, why isn't it so that you just read? I mean, we all know, everyone knows, everyone knows, but it goes so much deeper, um, and everyone has their sort of their own stage of where they meet the pain, where it actually is a leverage.

SPEAKER_04 19:10

Um, yes, and it's also connected to the episode that we did last week, and when you talked about that um that I think it was the episode last week, or whatever, some episode. When we talked about that that uh crap, my brain is a chance.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

And that um when uh you had this example with your partner, Jonas, that he wants to lose weight, for example, and you said that well, I can't I can't help you with that, you have to sort of do that yourself.

SPEAKER_04 19:55

Yes, that was the last episode. That was the last episode, yes. And I was thinking about that people often, you know, when when you smoke cigarettes, for example, and and it it says on the package, like you will die if you smoke. Yeah, but me as a person, like hmm, um that's that's not me. I'm not going to die. Everyone else is going to die, but but not me, you know. Yeah, surely not me. But because that's just how we are wired, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

Yeah, for sure. Um yeah, okay, and that would that was also what we talked about last week. I know what you're talking about, the list, like the different different stages of things that you believe are true when it comes to change, and one is that you know, this doesn't apply to me, so I don't need to do it. Okay, okay, so please do continue.

SPEAKER_02 20:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:51

Okay, so this is why struggle isn't a problem. It's actually part of the process. So it's very important for the person to be in struggle because it's often where the decision to change is born. So chapter 16 really lands in this. Sometimes the most helpful things you can do is not help. It is to let people face the consequences of their choices and trust that they are capable of more than you think. And with that, it that leads us into chapter 17. Because if you're not supposed to rescue someone, well, how do you actually support someone the right way? What should you do then? Do you want to know that? Yeah, yeah.

unknown 21:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:47

So and when it comes to chapter 16, Mel's gets very practical and she starts to talk about money. A lot of people try to help. Help by giving money. But what she explains is that money often makes things worse. You're buying temporary relief, which allows the person to avoid dealing with what actually needs to change in order for healing to happen. Sumel is very clear, you're not responsible for giving people money. You are responsible for giving love, acceptance, and compassion. If you do choose to help financially with money, there need to be clear conditions. But because it's okay to help people, but you have to set conditions. Because money without conditions becomes enabling, and that means that you are supporting their behavior with but with clear boundaries, it can actually become a support instead. Because if the person that yeah, it probably will be in this way, if the person doesn't follow through, you cannot keep helping in the same way. Even if it's uncomfortable, even if the consequences are hard for them. For example, if you have an adult child that living at home and not um finding for jobs to have an income, if you as a parent give your child money every month, the child will not keep on going to yeah, you know, searching for new jobs. But if you say that, okay, so I can support you with money if you really trying to get a job. If if she will hear he not doing that, you have to stop giving money. And yeah, yes, that will probably, maybe, uh be that yeah, you have to move out. And that's hard, that's really, really hard, especially if you are a parent, to just say, I'm not going to help you. So you have to leave the house. We have this uh we have this um agreement that I give you money and you search jobs, but you won't search any jobs, so I won't give you money and you have to move. You are not helping your kid, your your adult kid, if you're still continue to give money. And that's what that's the point here. What she's saying. It's hard, it's hard to hear that. And maybe you who are listening, maybe you are in this situation right now. Yes. Well, you have to change your behavior to your child. Okay, so let's continue.

SPEAKER_01 25:07

Um I just have to pause.

SPEAKER_04 25:20

Yes, so facing these consequences is often where healing begins. Remember that if you are in this situation, this is where the healing journey begins, okay? When they are facing the consequences. The second part she talks about uh if you want to help and be a support, if you're not giving money, you can do other stuff, and that is uh to talk about the environment the the person is in. Uh, real support isn't about fixing someone's life, it's about creating conditions that help them feel better and over time heal. And our environment affects us more than we think. The space we have around us is very important, like the house and the stuff in the house, and the cluttering and stuff, and also what we eat and who we spend time with and what we do during the day. So instead of trying to solve everything for that person, you can ask, what can I do to make things just a little bit better for them in the daily life? And that could be going over and cleaning their house, cooking a meal, taking them out for a walk, or just sitting with them to just be the loving support that they need. Because when someone is really struggling, they usually won't ask for help. They don't want to feel like a burden. So if you ask, do you need anything? the answer is often no, it's okay, I'm fine. And that's where the shift is. Sometimes you just have to do it without asking it. Just be there. So supporting someone the right way isn't isn't about making things easier for them in the moment. It's about knowing when to say let them and when to step in to let me and having the courage to do both. And that's the end. The end.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

Your thoughts. I mean, I can't even fathom sort of like the idea of having I mean, being put in that situation as a parent. I'm going back to that, of course. Uh being put in the situation being a parent and watching your child, you want him or her to change in some aspect when it comes to doing some job, or maybe the thought that I was going through when you said all of that was not really like, okay, they're not looking for a job, etc., but more so, like, what if you have a child that actually does drugs or do alcohol or like abuse their body in some really not good way, right? How do you get that person to change and stop? And I was thinking, like, oh, it is so hard to even think that, you know, okay, I'm loving you so much that I'm cutting you out of like the comfort of being able to still do this in our home or whatever it is. Like, I'm throwing you out on the street, I am disconnecting with you, or something like that. Um that that was like the first thought that came up with for me, like love, compassion. Uh like money is not always the answer, and that love and compassion is, and that could really look like a very tough call to do that. I mean, love and compassion is not only just sitting by someone's side and comfortably comforting them and saying that you're awesome, it could also be like, okay, so you're doing all of this, and I need you to not do that anymore. And I love you so much that I cannot be a part of this because I am enabling you to do to continue. Yeah, but that must be such a hard way of laughing. Yes, yes, like I have no experience and I do not want the experience, but so I don't know from which I don't have a platform to speak of this, so I'm just sort of a shout out to anyone who's listening that has gone through this. Like oh, it must be so hard.

SPEAKER_04 30:12

Yes, totally. But remember, and that and and that's probably why she has these chapters in the book because it is so important, yeah. And remember what you said in chapter 16 that they are going to change when when their addiction and their in what they are in is more painful, so you have to throw them out to the painful area. Like, yeah, yes, you're not going to survive and you have to feel it like yeah, yeah, you know, so they really okay. I need to change, I need to do something. They have to go to that tipping point, yeah. How hard it is, but you can you I I don't I haven't been in that situation either, so I can just imagine how hard it is, but you can all you can always be a loving support. I'm here when you need me. Yeah, I still love you, yeah. I still love you, and you can talk to me, but I won't give you money or food or space or whatever it is.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

Yeah, you need to go to this place or something, yeah. Yes, but I also like wait, now it got so heavy, I think, but uh I also like the way that you know, help through the environment, yeah, like looking at myself, and um I want to exercise more, I want to sort of get out of this route that I am in right now where I'm not moving my body enough. Uh, and I have a husband that you know he just runs, he exercises, he does heavy lifting, he does it all. And that can be sort of it can be an inspiration, but if you're so far ahead of someone, it can also sometimes be like, oh, there's no there's no point because he's so way ahead, like it it almost gets discouraging. But he actually told me, like, okay, so Sophia, what what can I help you with? You know, like what would help you? And I was like, well, I would really like like some company to go outside and take a walk, right? Yeah, yeah. And he has come to me like maybe five times now, and it's like, okay, so now we're working at home, both of us, and today, and would you like to take a walk? Um, and sort of like, and I know that that time for him is usually him making like huge run, and you know, all these different exercises that I have no chance of being a part of. So he's also sort of giving up that day his normal exercise. Um, and that that has really meant a lot. Like, you know, I don't feel the pressure of keeping up with him. He's meeting him, me where I am, and sort of like, okay, so I'm I'm just walking here beside you. That's that's really loving support. Yeah, that's love and support. So I really appreciate like it, and I just wanted to share it because I don't think we all always sort of um understand how much like a small gesture actually means. Yes. When it comes to the change that you want to see in someone, yes, just to be there and just to do things.

SPEAKER_04 34:05

And when I when I read this, I have been through periods of time in my life where I was really depressed and didn't have the energy to like clean the house or stuff like that. Yeah, and now when I read it, yes, my my family is really really supporting, but they have always asked me, do you need help? Do you do you want us to come? No, because I cannot handle myself, so I cannot handle company right now, and they and and now I realize oh, they should just have been doing it, just take the car, come to my house, and just do something, clean something. Yeah, that would be um and uh yeah, so it's uh it's it's a good reminder for myself to see other people as well. Like, okay, yes. Because you know, it's especially we who live in Sweden, we are like not that people who just go to home other people. You don't do that, it's a norm. Uh you don't do that, yeah. But maybe you should, yeah, yeah, for sure. If you really are connected to the person, you cannot go home to a random one. That would maybe be strange, but yeah, if it's family or a really close friend, just go home and do something, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:47

I mean, exactly. Show up. I actually had a friend like that uh going through high school, and I was in a car. Car crash sounds so big. It wasn't a crash crash. I mean, I wasn't that hurt. Okay, let's just say it. It was a crash, but I wasn't that hurt. And uh I told her, and you know, like 20 minutes later, she was standing outside my door. Like, okay, so how can I help? What should I do? Like, okay, so I'm here. And I'm like, oh, and um, but at that time it was a bit like okay, so I couldn't really handle it. As you say, we're not really those kinds of people. Um, and I was sort of like, okay, I don't really I can't I can't take any help right now. I'm still sort of processing it myself. Um, but I did really appreciate her like just showing up, you know, not me having to ask. Uh so I didn't, I I mean, she she didn't stay for long because I didn't have anything that I needed help with, but just her showing up and saying that I'm here. You can say that via text, of course, you can do that, but it's it's it's not it doesn't bear the same meaning as when you do show up live. That's a whole nother ball game, right? Yes, because I mean texting, you can sit in the sofa watching some uh soap or something like that, and be texting, I'm here for you while looking at that, yeah, right? Yeah, but taking the time to go somewhere, yes, that's something else.

SPEAKER_04 37:38

It's so important.

SPEAKER_00 37:39

It's so important.

SPEAKER_04 37:41

One I I have told you that when I was pregnant with my first kid, I broke my two arms, yeah. But that's when my family stepped up because they knew she she cannot take care of herself because she's super pregnant and she cannot move her arms.

SPEAKER_03 38:04

So my sister, uh, she was like uh she she was coming in the morning to dress me, feed me, and then she handled it over to my stepdad.

SPEAKER_04 38:21

Like, okay, so now it's your turn because I have to go, I have to work. So do you have time? Can you take care of her?

SPEAKER_03 38:30

Make her food, and just do something.

SPEAKER_04 38:36

And they like, so I'm picking you up.

SPEAKER_03 38:38

We're going to have an ice cream, and you know, so I wouldn't be like depressed, and I it was so painful. Yeah, oh my god, that was really that was love and care.

SPEAKER_00 38:52

Yeah, that's strange though. I mean, not strange, not strange that, but like the examples that we're giving. Um if we're not talking about change, but just when people are helping you, it's so much easier to reach out and say that okay, so you've broken your arms. How can I help you? I will be there to help you. Okay, so you were in a car accident, there's nothing wrong with you, but you know, the shock, everything you might make help. When it's an accident, when there's an accident or something like that, and you're still okay, but you know, if and now I'm taking it not to the change, but to a deeper level of like if that accident is lethal, lethal, deadly in some way, uh, or something like that. We're not as I mean, just look at when my mom passed away. People don't come then to ask you, okay, so how are you, Sophia? How can I help you? What can I do? Um, not just showing up, right? Yeah. Then uh yes, yeah. So then in those situations, we sort of get more like stressed out, uh, in the in the sense of like, okay, maybe I maybe it I shouldn't come, and maybe they need their space, and maybe we have all these different things that we sort of motivate ourselves not taking um taking the action of going there or talking to them or helping them out. But if it's something smaller, we're like, oh, I'm here.

SPEAKER_04 40:31

Yes, and and uh that is becomes more natural. It's so important that you're saying that because I and I also think that they they like it's logical in in our heads. I see that you have broke broke your arms, I see that you cannot move them, so I can see that you cannot dress yourself or eat food, and so I see that you need my help. Yeah, but and I can see how I can help you. How I can, yes, exactly. But when it's psychological emotional or psychological in your head, not physical, it's yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 41:15

It's it's so much harder because yeah, how I don't see how I can help you, no, and I don't want to be so pushy and making you discomfort, and but that's and is that really our own like not being able to be that emotional support to someone else because we ourselves have not been dealing enough with our own like sort of emotions and um stability when it comes to that and maturity, uh like she talked about further, like further back in the book, also.

SPEAKER_04 41:54

Um you know these chapters, uh I really to be honest, can I be really, really honest? Oh, please be. Yeah, please be uh these chapters is I felt when I read it it's important, but I really don't like the chapters because it was kind of I don't know, boring or something. I don't know, I didn't got this uh wow feelings about them more than this is important. But now when we when I have really talked through in this deep level and I have been talking about these chapters with you, I'm like this is really really good chapters. It's so freaking important.

SPEAKER_03 42:39

It's so crazy.

SPEAKER_00 42:41

But I think that's like a I think that's like a signal when it comes to regardless of which book we have read, actually, like when you talk things through, you get sort of more of a um like you get so many more perspectives on where we're going. Because I mean the chapter is not about when you die and what emotional support are you giving then, and you know, all of that. Um but you can get there by starting with this chapter, yes, um, and you only get there if you talk things through, yeah, and that's why we are doing this.

SPEAKER_04 43:25

That is yeah, it's a good reminder, yeah. Like, but I'm so huh. Yeah, it's so good to talk to you.

SPEAKER_00 43:38

It's really good. This interesting this episode is just a love bomb between you and me. Like, oh, you're so awesome! Oh, you're so awesome. Oh people are like, okay, so get to the freaking book.

SPEAKER_04 43:54

Yeah, but we we don't usually do that, so we are allowed to do. That one time, one episode.

SPEAKER_00 44:02

Yeah, one episode. It's one episode, guys. It's one episode. Just one. Give us a break. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:09

All right. Do we have something more to talk about? Because I think that we should really wrap this up because do that.

SPEAKER_03 44:16

So the episode won't be too long.

SPEAKER_04 44:18

Yeah. Yeah. So thank you. Thank you, Sophia, for this awesome conversation and to really deep dive into these uh topics in these chapters. And thank you who are listening right now. And I will give you the three questions to just reflect. And what is the one takeaway that you would take from this episode? What is the one most biggest important thing that is top of your mind right now? Write it down if you can. If you're driving not, don't do that. And why is it important to you? Why this big thing why hit you emotionally? And what can you do right now or today or tomorrow? What what action can you do? What action can you take on this to really make a change to do something? Yes, that is what I want to give you. So really, really thank you. I hope you will, I don't know, follow us through the whole book. It's almost the end.

SPEAKER_00 45:40

It's almost the end. We always feel sort of sad by the end, but also really like okay, we're done with this book now. So sort of getting that feeling as well.

SPEAKER_02 45:48

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_04 45:51

Oh, awesome. So thank you and take care, and we will see you next week. Have a really nice day. Bye. Bye.