The Pit Pony Podcast - Life After Teaching
Sharon Cawley and Sarah Dunwood talk to former teachers about exiting from the classroom and thriving.
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The Pit Pony Podcast - Life After Teaching
009 - Pit Pony James Terry - Classroom to Civil Celebrant
In this episode of the Pit Pony Podcast, we speak to the inspirational James Terry.
James describes himself as “born to teach.” From his first work experience as a teacher in school, he knew it was his calling. For six years, he found joy and purpose in the classroom, creating an environment that felt like home. But after moving to a new school, James lasted only four terms before he handed his resignation to the head’s PA, never looking back.
Join us as we follow James’s journey through the next eight years, facing life outside the familiar grounds of teaching. He speaks openly about the challenges, the loss of direction, and ultimately, the resilience that guided him through until he found a surprising new role that has brought him a renewed sense of purpose and fulfilment.
Find James here:
Visit James's website www.jamesterrycelebrant.co.uk
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Contact James by email:
jamesterrycelebrant@outlook.com
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Edited with finesse by our Podcast Super Producer, Mike Roberts of Making Digital Real
0:05
Sharon, hello and welcome to the pit pony podcast with myself, Sharon Cawley and me, Sarah Dunwood, in which we talk to teachers from all walks of life who exited the classroom from what they thought was a job for life, and thrived on the other side of teaching coming up in this episode,
0:27
but it wasn't long until then, black clouds were coming over me. I felt like I had no direction. I felt like I was just going through the motions. I couldn't wait to get back in my car at the end of each day, and I would literally, was like Waterloo Road. I was out with the kids into the car. It was because I'd sooner work at home than be there. I can't, you know, and I must say, one thing, I must say is the staff weren't, you know, the humanities department were great. They were great, and most the kids were great as well. It was just an unquantifiable thing really, it's difficult to pinpoint it like I say. I think it's probably education as a whole, really, at that point in time,
1:10
hello and welcome to a wonderful edition of The Pit pony podcast with James Terry. Now James will tell you without a question of a doubt, he was born to teach, and with so many teachers I've spoken to, it's very rare I hear this. He knew he wanted to teach at such an early age, he did his work experience in school as a pupil to be a teacher. I mean that just I love it, that is somebody who genuinely, genuinely knows what they want to do from an early age. And James, as an RE teacher, went straight in at 22 photo pit pony. The bells had barely stopped ringing from University, and he was right back in as a teacher. And he talks about the first six years of his life as an RE teacher as wonderful, absolutely wonderful. But in year number seven, he moved schools, sticking with the career projection. He always thought he was going to be on possibly promotion, moving in that direction that we all do. And he lasted four terms, and then he came out, that that always leads me to way more questions than answers. So I ask you the question now. James Terry, what do you do now?
2:41
So Hi everyone. I'm James Terry, and I'm a full time civil celebrant. Beautiful,
2:46
beautiful. James cannot wait to get into how you managed to do that, and it not an overnight fix. We're gonna we're gonna weave through this journey with you. But James, can I take you back to arriving in september 2015 where you tell me you went into a new school. And in your words, it didn't feel I fitted. So
3:13
it's all that about I'd sad New School in West Yorkshire. So the move was born of although, as you just said, Sharon, I was very happy in my last school. The move was made of a promotion, married him with a relocation back to my hometown. They were the two factors. So if I could have moved that school, I would have done but obviously that wasn't possible. So I went to this new school in West Yorkshire. I was a head of re within humanities faculty, and it's very difficult to quantify, but from the offset, or certainly within the first term, I knew it wasn't right. The pressures were different. Now I had come from a school down down south in hitching, even though I'm from Huddersfield originally, and I told teaching boys school, and I came from a school where the department was quite small. It felt like a family. We had socials, we had coffee on a Friday, the staff room on a lunch and a break time was busy. And I suppose I then moved to school and the and the atmosphere was a little bit different now, and it was a school that was working from from a three to a two, and I can understand some of them pressures. And one of the reasons I'm not going to name that school in this in podcast is because I've come to realize it's not so much the school as opposed to education on the whole. I can see that now, although hitching boys school at the time was brilliant. And I think in a way, I trained in 2008 qualified 2009 and in a way, those six years I had to 2015 perhaps I was just living the end of what might call the glory days, really. Um, probably just at the tail end of it. And I enjoyed that. And then things obviously changed, and it probably changed every. Everywhere. But of course, I was living what I was living at that point in time. So I ended up at this school. I enjoyed being a department to some degree, but I ended up in a situation where a few things happened over them, terms and four terms, one term we I realized I was planning all the lessons and everything else for the whole department, which is not unusual for re but because I only had one other specialist, I had a makeup of non specialists teaching it, and I was sharing all my planning with them. Now, the makeup of those non specialists was largely SLT. I felt constantly observed because I was sharing everything. I couldn't just do a lesson that perhaps fulfilled something for my class. I'd share it with everybody, and with that over time was wearing but perhaps the most major factor happened between the first and the start of the second year. Bear in mind I did one term of a second year. They did a restructure from a humanities department, where they had a head of RE, head of geography, head of history, and then an overall head of humanities. They restructured so we had a history, a geography and a social sciences faculty. Now by this restructure, because I already had a TLR point, I was automatically put a second in social sciences. So here I was doing everything I'd done as a head of re but found myself, by default, without any say, being a second of subjects I don't know, health and social care, psychology and sociology. So this took its toll as well. I think it was something, that perhaps it was either that or nothing, but that's what I ended up with. And I think that was possibly one of the final things. Looking back, I just thought it's just too much for me. I just it's not what I signed up for. Not so long back there I was, and it wasn't long, really. And I would say, although I was unhappy in my first year there. I plowed on, but it was that last term, that term for coming back into September, saying, Come on, let's have another go at this. It's your second year. You've done it all before, you know the school. But it wasn't long until then black clouds were coming over me. I felt like I had no direction. I felt like I was just going through the motions. I couldn't wait to get back in my car at the end of each day, and I would literally, was like Waterloo Road. I was out with the kids into the car. It was because I'd sooner work at home than be there. I can't, you know, and I must say, one thing, I must say is the staff weren't, you know, the humanities department were great. They were great, and most the kids were great as well. It was just an unquantifiable thing at really, um, it's difficult to pinpoint it like I say. I think it's probably education as a whole, really, at that point in time. So there I was, and I anyway, I was ill. I was definitely ill. I didn't take any time off, that was I was wrong. I looked after myself, and in hindsight, as I know a lot of people go and get a signal, and I didn't, and I plowed on till the Christmas, perhaps with two days off. And I suppose really, what my lesson for myself there and to anyone listening, look after yourself, because I wasn't at that point in time,
8:22
didn't, am I writing thinking you've, you've just said, and the lesson is, didn't you have a lesson observation as well during that period of time?
8:31
Yeah, I did when I was at itching boy school, looking back over them six and a bit. You know, six odd years, I'd literally never had anything less than a good or an outstanding observation. Now that's not been being complacent or not being aware of being able to be any better, like I say, perhaps it was the glory days. Perhaps we were just free to be who we were, and you could teach the style that you wanted. Now, one thing I would say about that time, but I'll come back to the observation, is that me and my colleagues at hitching boys school, we taught the same syllabus, but we could do it in our own way. You could walk into my head of departments classroom and she'd be teaching the same topic, but in her way, and I might do it my way. Once I'd arrived at my second school, it was what and I've seen this load since, and I've come to because I've been a supply teacher since, so I have seen it that it's across schools. This what I call uniforming it, so it's all the same PowerPoint across every classroom on that topic. Well, all of a sudden, we're all doing it exactly the same way. And that didn't work for me, essentially. So I'd been used to being quite creative and doing things my way. And perhaps sometimes maybe I would talk for a long time, maybe other times I wouldn't, you know, but I came and I had my first observation in the new school, and it for the first time, I was given a three. And I have to say, whilst that, I'm not going to say that's the end of the world. But at that moment in time, my heart sunk, because I haven't experienced that level of criticism. Dare I say it like that? But that's how it felt. And I know they'll say that it's, you know, requires improvement, is like the old satisfactory, and therefore it's all about improving. It did feel like criticism. There's no two ways about that. And one of the things that came out was that with this school, I was at, one of their criterias and observations was that they didn't like it when a teacher spoke for too long. Now I don't think I necessarily did. I may have spoke for maybe 15 or 20 minutes of an hour's lesson, but that wasn't the criticism. The ratio was wrong. I never did quite get
10:41
my head around that I was I was getting done at that time, and the expression my school used was, it was something they put out of the stead criteria all made up because nobody ever knew what this Ofsted thing was. They said the learning starts when the teaching stops. That became a big theme in the school. I was at the learning starts when the teaching stops. So actually, that happened to me, and I just learned to play the game. You had to have a pre starter and a starter and group learning and student led learning. So I just facilitated all that on the lesson observation, then carried on teacher now, I normally used to teach, but when I got my first unsatisfactory whatever, it not only it wasn't just about the criticism, it made me question absolutely everything about what I thought I was good at, and it pulls the rug. It absolutely those lesson observations book looks learning walks when we talk about quality assurance, I don't think they ever have any understanding of the impact that that has on a teacher. What are your thoughts on on the old lesson observation point of pain. Sarah,
12:01
well, I see it from both sides, because I was SLT for a long time, and I think you're absolutely right in terms of timing. James, that 2015 was a was a big turning point in terms of all sorts of things. And for me as a teacher. Funnily enough, I was talking about this to somebody last night that what's happened in the last few years is the diet for children has become homogenous, standardized, uniform. So So let's just take out for a second the impact on teachers. What's the diet light for kids that are going around classrooms all day, every day, in this standardized, standardized way. And I used to teach. I was very much a talker. Teach from the front. Some of my best teachers were talkers, and they're the ones that I remember. But I started to lose my love of it at the point where I couldn't do that creative stuff. I was known for being Miss Hebden, who drew rubbish diagrams. So new year, 10 kids would come into my lessons, and I'd get a pen. They'd go, are we about to have one of your sweary word diagrams? And I had to stop doing that because it didn't fit the framework of I had to stop being creative. So I completely feel it and and it just got squeezed and squeezed and squeezed, and it's academies, and it's Ofsted frameworks, and it's and it's the fear of SLT. And I sat there in that position, the fear of SLT, that if we don't do it in a particular way, we're going to get criticized and blah blah. But it was just never ending in terms of where the pressures came. But you filter that down, who's impacted the most the kids with the diet that they get. So having listened to that and then fit that into James's timeline, which is 2015 which was Michael gold's complete butchering of the GCSE syllabus as we know it. Now,
14:10
one thing I perhaps should have mentioned is that with 2015 in this school, I was teaching a level and GCSE, but old spec and new spec, yeah, because we it was that year of change. So I had not only all this going on. I also was facilitating the new spec with the year 10 on the new spec, the year 11 on the old spec, and being a new teacher school. And of course, the year elevens, there were nine and year 10, you could go on very little support at that point, really.
14:36
And I think that's what's important, to bring that into that timeline. So 2015 within four terms, you've gone from the known to this new and stark reality, and then you resign. You hand you notice in and you resign. James, what's the aftermath to somebody like yourself who isn't just resigning from a school? They're unhappy with, but talk us through the physical and emotional impact of somebody who's going, I've got this wrong about this job. It isn't what I am not all this job. How did that impact you after your resignation? Yeah,
15:15
so well, it had a did have a profound impact, but just stepping back a little bit. Do you know what I felt the most profound moment was actually handing that letter on the desk of the heads PA. And I just couldn't believe that I was doing that, actually writing that letter handed in to the PA, and this was, I left it as late I could. It was October half term, essentially the later I could be to go at the Christmas because I toyed with every option. However, I knew that I had something on the agenda. So when the Christmas holidays came, I had a brilliant Christmas. It was just so liberating. I enjoyed it, the freedom, the thought of not having to go back that at that point in time was was epic. One thing that perhaps I should have mentioned is that there was a fantasy born during that fourth term, and the Fantasy was bus driving, because I looked in my brain for anything that I could relate to, to look forward to. And whilst very poor pay relatively bus driving to me appealed to me because, well, boys with big toys, perhaps, but also we had the idea that I could have a shift at a start time and a finish time that when I park that bus up in that depot, I'm free to go home. And that dream, that fantasy, continued into the January. It was still with me. It was very much real. And in fact, my resignation letter, and I've still been on my computer somewhere, says that I'm off to pursue a career in public transport. That's how I worded. So off I went with this dream. Now, of course, you can't just jump in a double decker bus and drive it, so I knew I had to train to do this. So I was going to train, and I did part my training with first bus, and I was set to start with them. I want to say it was February on March 2017 I can't remember exactly which month, so I went on supply to buy at the time, because it's worth saying to everyone that's listening, my financial position was that I needed to work and I needed to pay them bills. I lived on my own at this point, and I had a mortgage, a relatively low mortgage, but based on being a reasonable earner, and I had that mortgage, so I had a certain amount that I needed to pay, so I signed up with supply, and I'll come back to the bus driving in a moment. But that moment, that first week, that first school week in January, and the phones didn't ring, because, of course, supply, you build relationships with your agency, and that was just a new buy on their list. So it wasn't ringing. Of course, my brain was doing one on that. Think it was by the end of the second week, sat there, you know, in the morning that the phone rang and I got a day's PE at a local school. I went and did it. And I must admit, not many people always say this, but I love being a supply teacher day to day, because I could rock in, rock out. Yes, the behavior was occasionally poor, but not my circus. I want a better way of putting it. You know, I just did my best on that day. I love being a supply teacher, but the bus driving Fantasy was still very much there. So off I went to first bus. And this is where, perhaps on first part, there was a little bit that was bit guting about this, but actually it's the first of two events in my journey to celebrancy where I felt the stars aligned. This first occasion was that with first bus you had to you only got two attempts at your practical driving test, although, and then you're out. But by this point, by the time they're putting you through your practical they've done all your theory tests, which is more than your car theory, quite a bit more, and medicals and various other things like that. I'd been through all that process and then and passed that, but I'd failed to practical driving tests. So our off, they didn't want me. At the moment in time, I remember ringing my mum, our gutted, our absolutely gutted, cos the fantasy, basically, but I now realize that that was the best thing that could have ever happened to me, because had I have passed the first bus, I would have had to been in a contract for two years or paid back my training fees, which were in the region of two to 3000 pounds. So because it was either work for us for X amount to pay your training back, if you like, or or do that. So what I ended up with was walking away with 80% of my training at their cost, because that was done. So I went and did a private test for about 500 pounds and passed the time that allowed me to go. Be a bus driver with no ties, which was absolutely amazing, because I only lasted three months. Because it wasn't for me, of course, and as most people would tell, told me, they probably knew that already, but it wasn't for me, the late, the stupidly early, the stupidly late, and things like that, and relatively poor pay wasn't for me, so back I went to supply, and I actually remained a supply teacher for near on six years, and I'm still on the books now, actually, but I really don't do much, and bus driving a local company picked me up that give me as and when Saturdays if I want to help them out. So I've kept both, and this is at this point that, along with exam market as well, I've got a bit of a portfolio career going on at this point in time. Oh, I
20:48
like that expression, portfolio career. I do like that one. What I'm going to nail you down on that, because we're talking about the things that are happening on a practical basis, the supply teaching. Talk to me about your zombie period. You talk to me about and man after my own heart, comfort, eating and on weight, not sleeping, chest pains. Yeah. Was that in the aftermath? James, of all of this was that the COVID, the impact, where did that fit in?
21:24
That fits in? Probably, bit of both, really. It certainly happened during my teaching career. And actually, even at the time, I was happy at hitching boy school, I probably was piling weight on because I was happily doing 7080, hours a week without thinking about it, you know. And of course, but I was happy. That was the thing. I was happy doing it because you do when you're at that point. I was, you know, young and eager. So I did pile weight on. I did have chest pains, which, in hindsight, actually started when I was itching boys. But you know what? Now I'm looking back, they started after accepted the job for this new job, I'd have no real reason to know it was to come, unless it was some sort of subconscious sign. But I did, and I remember going to DOPS in hitching, and they they diagnosed it as asthma, which it never was. And once I'd got into the new school and I went to the doctor up in Huddersfield, as opposed to down there, saying, Look, this has never rectified itself. And it was always happening at night. I was getting really tired. Getting really tight chest at night, and it was diagnosed as anxiety. This was not the only physical ailment triggered by anxiety. During my time at my second school, I was limping for about a week. Pseudo Gout is what it was called, meaning it gave me a gout like thing in my knee, but the word pseudo attached to it, suggesting it was a mental trigger. Well, that's that figure. So yeah, so I was starting to get physical ailments based on essentially my mental health at the time, of course, not fully realizing what that meant, but in hindsight, looking back now, it's definitely anxious. I definitely wasn't looking after myself. And the zombie part was really before, I suppose, between the build up to making the decision to leave and actually leaving, that was a very weird time. I just, I just felt like I was just there. I was just doing that. I was pretending I was acting for the kids. But I could walk into perhaps the humanities office and someone would say, are you alright, James? And I didn't realize that how outwardly that was showing but I felt like I was just walking around like a bit of a zombie. People would, you know, I look back now actually, and one thing I think I said to you, Sharon, the other day, I look back now and I look at my teaching career, and from 2009 to 2015 hitching by school, I'm not gonna second name every child I ever taught or anything like that, but I can put loads of faces in different groups, what we did, where we went, what school trip, I arranged all of this, and then that last four terms, I really don't remember many of the children that I taught and as or even necessarily, what, what their form group number was like 7b or something, where I can go back teaching boys and go, Yeah, Paul, whatever. Oh yes, he was in 10 D. I can tell you that, and I can tell you who else his classmates were. I could even probably tell you who taught them history in year seven, when I was teaching them Re and things like that, and I and the worst bit and a bit I feel a bit of guilt over is I don't really remember much about my phone group at the second school, which I do remember starting with year seven, because they tend to put new teacher school. And you'd go, school, and you'd go through with them, but aging boys, I was actually always year seven because we tended to stick to the same year group and specialize, not across the teaching but in the pastoral side. And I can tell you stuff about nearly every form group I I had, and I can even tell you stuff about transition day and things like that. I. So looking back, I realized how much of a zombie my brain must have been, because when I love teaching, those kids have really stuck with me when I didn't love teaching, and not the children. It's their fault, but I don't, don't, haven't taken much away with me from that, and that's quite sad.
25:19
It bully. It's sad, but explainable, because your body's in and correct response. Your body's in a trauma response to what's happening, and therefore parts of your brain will have had to have shut down. I'm no psychologist, but when I've gone through these periods and Sarah talks about them, part of your brain has to shut down, Sarah, a period of your life you can only know for a fact you've been and done something based upon what evidence photographic
25:52
the if people have listened to my story, one of the earlier episodes that there was a period of time of about six to eight weeks where I talk about the fact I know I went out, I know I went out and walked and did x, y and z, because my doctor told me to. But I cannot remember. And I can remember things through my my memory is very good Sharon. Sharon probably has a phrase Much,
26:24
much in my detriment, because I can't get away with anything, because she would remember. But
26:29
that is like, it's like a it's like a black hole in my memory. And if it wasn't for this photographs on my phone that are time and date stamped, I'd have no idea.
26:45
I think going what you just said there, Sarah, I can relate to I think possibly I didn't quite get to quite that level, probably because the the longevity of what I'm talking about, I suppose because I My reaction was to reside and go think had I have been at that point with children, and I've now got a daughter and a partner, but I didn't at that time, and because my mortgage was quite low and I'd sussed out the supply, teaching could pay and bus driving could pay, I kind of went quite quickly, but I think if I'd have Been in a different financial position and felt more trapped if I'd have been there any longer, that's where I was going to go. So I know what that I mean, what I'm describing about, not necessarily that class has been blurred. I think that's the start of that. I think that's where it was going to go. And I did. I
27:37
think, I think that's very reflective, very sensible to look at it like that, because I should imagine the school in hitch, and you could tell me every classroom what color it was, what the room number was,
27:50
yeah,
27:51
it's almost like a disassociation. And what you've talked about there is very, very common. And those listeners who will have done episode after episode, we'll be picking out all of these commonalities. So Right? James Terry, at this point, you've handed an E resignation. You're doing a bit of supply. You've decided your dream was to be a bus driver. But the one thing you found out quite early on is you can't drive a bus. That makes me laugh. You pass every single, every single thing you need to buy from driving the ruddy thing. Yeah, you stick at that for three months, and you really know to supply teaching on your your terms. Let's, as the kids say, on Tiktok, let's get into it. Let's get into this wonderful, wonderful world You are in now, before we start to talk about the celebrant, a civil celebrant, can you really capture for us what a celebrant actually is? Because I bet we all think we know, but just educate us for a little moment. Will you please teach a boy tell us what's a celebrant?
28:58
So a celebrant is somebody that writes and delivers services and ceremonies. I suppose the word celebrant, you see the word celebrating there, because we are an alternative to your traditional religious minister. We are person centered, I suppose where perhaps a faith one, they may argue back with me on that point, but I suppose a faith based one would have much more of a set structure as to what it might look like. Like a religious wedding or religious funeral would have a very similar layout. So we center on on in a funeral, the deceased and their family at a wedding, the football now, most of my work is funerals, weddings, they're lovely. I can't legally marry somebody, so we tend to attract those that want to be creative, that don't want a registrar, don't want a religious minister, are happy to go to the registry office and get legally married with just two witnesses and then do it whatever they want, wherever they want. Them and say what they want, and that's more common than you might think. You know when you see people, not that I've done these just for the record, when you see people getting married down a cave or on a beach somewhere, the likelihood, if it's in the UK, is that that is a celebrant, because you won't get a registrar there. So that's what it's about. But the truth is, certainly, I'm only two and a half years into this. Now, the fight back, part of my journey was quite long. So when I talk about supply, I was doing supply, and I loved it for near on six years, and it was during that time what allowed me, suppose, the headspace to retrain, but still be able to work full time. Now, there was one second occasion I'm going to refer to when I felt the stars aligned for me that I talked about the first time failing the bus test book being free from any contract. The second time it happened on this journey was in 2019 in october 2019 for a long time, I only did day to day, or a week here or a week there, two weeks at most, if they knew someone was on a trip somewhere, I didn't do anything with any sort of commitment. Just didn't have the headspace for that. But for one reason or that, my agency sort of twisted my arm to to do a long term material. I said long, I think it was a term and a half, but it was long in my mind to what I was going to do. So and I agreed to it to be to do this re post four days a week. And you know what? Thank a lot of did, because lockdowns came in in 2020, and I was furloughed from the agency based on the average of the earnings prior to it. So what I'd end up with there is being absolutely furloughed from the agency because the school didn't need me and I got to what they call and those of you out there on supply will know the term AWR. I'd gone on to parity pay. So essentially, I was earning supplying me. Sorry, I was, I was being a supply teacher on similar pay to what I've been doing as a burn teacher, except for I still told the school I didn't mark after an X amount of time and I want the planning in a folder. And again, they obliged, because they really needed me. So that really worked for me. So again, on this journey, it's been quite slow. There's been a lot of no man land. I think that's fair to say. I've been in these areas where perhaps celebrancy wasn't on the on the agenda really. In 2019 even, bear in mind, I'd left permanent teaching end of 2016 there's quite a time when I was just, yeah, portfolio career, doing my own thing, you know, burning enough, the seed had been planted. Now, when I look back in 2011 we go right back, and I'd seen a humanist do my grandfather's funeral, and he was really good. And all the whilst, I'm not a humanist, because I don't belong to human society, I'm a civil I'm an independent, they thought it wasn't a religious minister. And I think I remember thinking, you know, I could do that, but I was so happy teaching boy school that never thought, never really occurred again. But the lockdowns gave me headspace. And I think by the time we'd arrived at the other side of those lockdowns, and I'd done a couple of maternity covers, because what happened, I'd evolved at this school. I'd taken on that Semi long term thing to do. Got into these lockdowns. School didn't need meals, furloughed, and then they wanted me back after and at this point with COVID, I was like, Well, I may as well go to one place of work, and I may as well know where I stand. So I did, and really, for about two years, on a supply four days a week, I was I was at this school. It was almost like being a permanent teacher, as far as the kids were concerned, except for I knew that I drew the line, you know, and
33:24
I think that psychologically you need, I think the scarring of those four terms, yeah, I'll do it. It's like being in a relationship all by name. You were in that contract, but you could not psychologically feel trapped within touching again,
33:43
I would have sooner have done it. I did through the agency, despite the school, by the time I little time i There were meetings of, would you go on a temporary contract with us, even down to, I think at one point, I mean, I'm not, it never happens. I never applied. But would you come and work for us permanently, for personal would you apply? No way. Wasn't going there well. So, yeah, I mean, it was complimentary, and I go on with the staff, and I took it as a compliment that perhaps I still had it, you know, perhaps I am a good teacher still, but I just wasn't interested in it. And I suppose where I'm going with this, going back to the celebrant. Thing was, we I got to a point where I needed more. How do I quantify that? I just I was earning reasonable money as a supply teacher. I had the freedom, I had the headspace, but was I truly fulfilled? And it probably took six years to get to the point where I felt I needed that, something else, and I just had to think about it. I couldn't afford just to take time out and retrain. I couldn't go back to university. I couldn't, you know, I'm a useless DIY. So there's another chance going to be a tradesman. And we all know they earn good money, but that won't go up. So, and we all know you can't drive the boss. Yeah, well, I can actually, but that's, that's. That I can't just took a lot to prove it, but there's a few stories of that as well, but we'll leave that for another day one, including the cyclist. But he was fine.
35:13
He was fine. And if he's listening, we send much love to his family.
35:19
He got up. I got up anyway. So what an easy bit more and celebrants. I went back to and I realized you could trade online. I'll come to the different types of training in a minute, because I think that's really good advice for people. And I just come back to that sideline that for a moment I trained and got a reputable qualification, but I did it online, which allowed me to do it when I wanted, because they were, like, pre recorded videos and stuff, and I could do it in evening, weekend and on my day off, because I didn't work, work one day a week. And I did that. I and a lot of training companies do have you on a residential for a week. There's no, no way I could have done that financially and and by this point, my little daughter was on the way and things like that. So I did the slow burn, and I actually got the full training and qualification out the way before I even put myself out there. So really, by time, I'm actually being an active celebrant, looking for that first job, if you like. Because of one thing that is true of all of my jobs here as a bus driver. Now I'm working casually for a local company. I'm a supply teacher, and I've been marking exams for AQa as well. I don't know if I mentioned earlier, but I was, I'm entirely in the gig economy here, and the celebrancy is no different, you know. So this portfolio career was building. I thought the celebrancy would just be part of that gig economy, in the sense that I would have a week where one week I might do two funerals, two days supply and bus drive on a Saturday that at the time. Oh, that's a dream. Look at that. But for whatever reason, and I'm not one for both me on trumpet, I took off like no tomorrow with me celebrancy. Now that's not necessarily true of everyone, and therefore, as I said to Sharon the other day, I won't be sat here upselling celebrancy in any sort of fake way, because the real, realistic nature of it is really hard to crack. I had a massive dollop of luck, and where that look came from, I'll never know, but I got going quite quickly, and by so I did my first service in May 2022 I did one funeral that month. I did three in the June 2022 I did eight in the July 2022 and then it fluctuated a little bit. And then December 2022 arrived winter. And you know, you don't have to be a mad scientist to realize that death rates are higher in winter. And it was the first time perhaps the demand was there. My reputation had been built with a few fuel directors, and I did 13 funerals that month. And let's put it this way, since January 2023 through to now into the back end of 2024 I've never done less than 14 a month. So I'm truly full time. And as to how that happened, very hard to quantify. It's very hard for me to give top tips on it, but I love it. I get a lot from it, and I am in many ways, after an eight year journey, both mentally in a sense of rewards and also financial earnings, pretty much where I would have been as a UPS teacher, plus TLR point. So I've kind of arrived, but no way was that a quick journey we're talking to today this Christmas coming, Christmas 2024, that's your eighth anniversary from leaving the classroom, and it's been a journey. It really been a journey. And but I wouldn't change any of it, because I talk about No Man's Land, but I love spy teaching. I didn't mind a bit of bus driving. In many ways. It allowed me to heal nothing, and now I'm able to give my all, because here I am again, doing 70 or 80 hours a week sometimes. And yes, you know what? My weights creeping back on and various other things that are points when I'm stressed. But I love it. I absolutely
39:09
love it. Oh, I just, I've just been captivated from start to finish, to be honest. And Sarah has just put it, she's just resting her face on her hand. She's just listening and milking and drinking you in, because I know why you're successful at what you're doing. I can read your energy. I can feel you. Of course, it's just all there. I've no words, and it's very rare. I have no words. You are exactly what your service provision is all about. It just oozes from you. I should imagine you had to almost take this joy that you have of being a celebrant and then package some business skills around it, because you had a dollop of luck. I should imagine you've had to because I've looked at your social media. It's beautiful. It's absolutely. Absolutely spot on, and me putting my business hat on as a marketeer, you've nailed what your presence is like online. Did you do that as part of a course, or did that come naturally?
40:12
You know, truth be told, I don't think my training to be a celebrant was the best always available. My mentor was brilliant, absolutely brilliant. But because it was online, and there are lots, of course, out there that are brilliant, probably a lot of what I've done has been common sense experience. I don't think that the game made with background backbone, don't get me wrong. But a lot of that I've just sort of felt my way through and and, you know, it does work. I'm not gonna say loads of business has come through social media, but the presence is there if families want to find you, sometimes they like to find you afterwards, just to sort of put a comment or something on there. But a lot of this work in celebrancy is, without a doubt, relationship based. Because, unless you are a wedding celebrant, by the most part, which I'm not, I've only done a couple. I'm mainly funerals, just because that's the way it's falling. And perhaps where, perhaps my I sort of laid myself in the market. That's not to say that I turn weddings away by no stretch. Just a lot you don't find it loads of wedding fares and spending loads of expenditure on that. I don't it's all bound to relationships with funeral directors, a lot of it. And you can direct market to your community if you'd like to. And I do, to some degree, do that through social media. I have signage on my card, magnetic signage that you can take on and off and things like that. But the bulk of what I do is because I have built a relationship. I've been given a go. And then, as with all lines of work, repeat bookings, because that's how it works. So, you know, I always say to any new celebrant that's coming in and say, really, you can't say that you are established with a funeral director until you so I'm getting into, dare I say, 20 or 30 funerals with them, because then you really are, because it, you know, they'll give people a go. And there are some where I've done one or two with and never heard from again. Realistically, I've had both sides. It's all been part of a journey. But now I've got a call that, you know, all time. I've got some that I think of a bit like salt and pepper. Use me occasionally and, you know, and I'm at the point now, like I say, I average about 19 and a half funerals a month. I think it works out so if you do the maths on it, and since starting funerals alone, I've taken over 480 bookings since May 2022 and I It's beyond my wildest dreams, really, because, like I said, if you'd have asked me two and a half years ago or back in May 2022, I was doing that first funeral, I'd have said, Oh, I could do a couple of if you could get to the point where I do two or three a month and I'll do some supply teaching. I think even better if I'm doing two a week and two days supply teaching. And that to me, that was like the ideal. But now I look back and think, Wow, here I am. This is full time celebrancy, and yet I don't quite let go of the busses and the and the supply, because I do like keeping my hand in. But I've done two or three days supply teaching in 2024 but I'm happy to do that just to keep my hand in.
43:14
Can I just go to something which is impact? Because I've, I've lost my stepfather this year, which was hard, and that happened in Spain, and we didn't have a funeral. The rules are very different over there. So he was cremated within 48 hours. Our decision not to have a not to have a service, but I just go to you, I've been to a humanist Service. I've been to things like that, and I just think the impact that you have had on over 400 families on their communities in terms of the way. I know just by talking and listening to you, I've been utterly transfixed the way you must deliver a final funeral for somebody, the ripple effect that you must have had on families, and if we correlate that to what we want as teachers, which is to know that we've had an impact on children and their families, I think you, you've almost kind of come full circle, but in it gone into a different circle. I've
44:41
found that same feeling. I found that same sense of belonging and a sense of as a quad. It's difficult to quantify, actually, Sarah, because going back to what we're saying earlier, it's sometimes that what I didn't have in supply, Bus Driver exam Mark. Is for want of there's no way of wording it, really, but something more so self fulfillment that has come back through. And yes, I'd like to think I have had a big impact on these families. I have now got returning families that I've done two or three, four, it's only two and a half years. But sometimes, if you've done Mum, you get dad, you know, if they're of a certain generation or a certain age, I've had, I've had a whole wide range of things and and when you start off in this business, you do start, perhaps a funeral directors, trusting you with, you know, a handful of trying to put this in the plight as way possible. Maybe your older generation, you sort of, you
45:42
know, perhaps the more
45:45
expected, yeah, you know, 90 year old lady being in a care home, that kind of scenario. There's not that they're equally important, but when you go on and you build this reputation, and you show what you work and what you can do, and the difference you can make. I'm getting a higher proportion health what I call ratchet ones. You know, people taking their own lives. People have died young of cancer, sometimes very difficult ones, like I've done, and I don't mind sharing on here, because I'm not naming names, but I've been asked to do a sex offenders where there's no nobody present, but they still need a dignified send off, and you end up with just a social worker and possibly a solicitor sat there and you and it evolves, and you get these real challenges as you go along. Only a couple of weeks ago, without going into details, I think a lot of people will have seen a tragic whining the news about a mum and three children in a house fire. And I took that funeral, and that was one of the most, hardest ones I've ever, ever done. And I came away from that, and I sat in my car, and I took the deepest breath and went, how on earth have you done that? But I did and that you know, and you you be like we're teaching. There are bits of teaching where you know, when you get told a horrible safeguarding story or something like that, and it really, really takes you on a personal level. Well, some of these funerals do that. I mean, the you take something from a wall, you do, but there's different levels of acceptance with it. And even though there you are performing in a way, you are voice of that family, and you have written something that is a tribute, that is respectful and and you are holding that together, there are some that just really can just break you. Yeah,
47:36
I'm just I'm just so I can't even begin to describe to you what I know that Sharon is feeling and I am but to listen to you talk with such compassion and care about something which, for most is the most difficult point in people's lives, I just I'm in awe of you.
48:02
I don't take any of it for granted because I love this job, and a lot of people ask you, and it's a question that's asked almost daily, certainly weekly. How do you I can do that? How do you do that? You know, and I think the truth is it's distance, because they're not my relatives. And I think there has to be a bit of that, because while some celebrants will say I can do my mum's funeral or I spoke at be aunties or whatever, I don't think I could. And there's nothing wrong with that. People are different. And so for me, I know that the reason I can do this on a daily basis is all about that sort of care and compassion, but enough distance to hold it together. Now, the one I've just mentioned is a whole different scenario. That's that luckily, well, they're not even a five yearly occurrence. You know that the bulk of what I do is, you know, one person, hopefully, has had a great life on the whole, and it is a celebration of their life. And the bulk of it is that, I think that's fair to say. But you will get these little ones where you really are tested, uh, emotionally, physically and actually, just as a wordsmith, you know, where do I start with that pen on that paper?
49:24
Wow, I'm going to take you back to that boy who knew what he wanted to do when he was at school. And I'm going to take a job title out of it. He thought he wanted to be a teacher. Actually, what he wanted to do was impact people's lives. He wanted to be compassionate, and he wanted to make a difference. And I know that's an overused expression, but you just got the job title wrong, pal. That's all because what you have just what you have outlined. Reminders, if I have ever spent time in somebody's company who has had a purpose and a vocation, it is you, my friend, and I am thoroughly humbled to have spent time with you today, really, really humbled and in the true sense of the word, in all and it now brings me to the point where I ask you, with this, this whole quest and journey that you've been on, tell us about a sliding doors moment in James Terry's life. Tell us about a moment in your life, James, please, that would not have happened had you not have gone into that pas room and put that resignation on her desk.
50:46
It's difficult to put one, but the perhaps the main one happened just last weekend, when I was runner up in a national award at the Association of Independent celebrants, and I was runner up in outstanding funeral celebrant category. Now I had, in all fairness, put my name out there on social media and stuff to gain some nominations, because if you didn't, nobody would know it was happening. But I thought I'd get a few nice words, and then I ended up as a finalist top five. And I thought, wow, that's way beyond what you've ever driven top I mean, for one, it gave me a nice little logo, I could put me emails and stuff like that. That Wow finalist, you know. And I sat there, and I sat in this, in this awards dinner, and there was representatives from different organizations and professional bodies, particularly from the funeral industry, like funeral directors and professional bodies and things like that, with their chains presidents, with their chains around their necks and things like that. And first off, we'd had, there's a media company that run all the music and things in crematoriums called orbitus, and they did a little draw where you had to write down an idea for a new theme to be projected on the slides and things in crematoriums. And you won a 50 pound Amazon voucher. Well, first off, I put motorsport, well, I got pulled out, so I won the 50 pound Amazon voucher. So I'm sat there thinking, okay, that's that's enough for tonight. I've omitted a raffle. Um, my name pull down. I got a bottle of whiskey. Oh, wow, God, this is like, I don't play the lottery here. I know what's happening. And then, of course, we went through, and they got onto the awards, and they went through. First off was it was three categories. One was for wedding and family celebrant. Then it was the outstanding funeral celebrant. And eventually it was one about contribution to celebrancy, which is like an overall, I suppose that's like the pinnacle one. You know, there's no way I was in that category, because I've not been doing it long enough. So they did the the wedding, one runner up, well deserved, winner, well deserved. Then we got into outstanding one, and they read what they were doing for each one was reading a quote of something somebody had said as a nomination. And they read that one, of course, I'm thinking, anybody really, either, um, that's doing this, that cares and is good at it. And then they said, you know, runner up in a outstanding funeral category, outstanding celebrant, funeral celebrant. James Terry, well, there I was up for third time, but this one, I couldn't believe it, because I never in a million years thought I'd ever win, let alone be a final finalist, let alone win. So actually, to become runner up second place and to an amazing woman called Kate Moran, who runs her own chapel and does amazing work with children's hospices. I was absolutely flabbergasted, you know, so that was a sense of, it was a mixture, really, of in that moment, and the way I worded it to my family and friends, and I think, on a Facebook post, on my on my personal and professional page was it was like a mixture of pride, achievement and imposter syndrome moment, because how was this me, you know? Yes, okay, it was all within our own circle. It's not like a nationally recognized that everyone's going to know what that meant. Know what that meant. But for me, I was like, I can simply say I'm the second runner up in an outstanding funeral celebrant. Yes, you can half years in here I am. And I thought, I'll take that any day of the week. I
54:14
cannot wait to see where the next epoch of your journey takes you. And I just want to say the fact the imposter syndrome kicked in. Just say so much more about you and how humble you are and what an amazing time we've spent in your company. James So, on behalf of Sarah, myself and the listeners, I just want to say, James Terry, thank you for a memorable pit pony episode. It's
54:43
been an absolute honor, and thank you for asking me, because if I'm honest, yes, family and friends know parts of my story, but think it's the first time in those eight years I've been actually asked to share your story, James, first time, and
54:57
it's and it's been an honor that I've. For that listening day. Thanks. Thanks ever so much. James loved it. Thank
55:04
you. Thank you for listening.
55:07
I feel like we should sit in silence for about a minute to just let that sink in.
55:18
It's not often I would use the word compelling, but I was utterly transfixed and really quite emotional about what what he's ended up doing. I don't have words.
55:42
I think for me, because we stayed on with him, didn't we for about 10 minutes afterwards. And this sums the guy up, in my opinion. It's like, first of all, do you think that was okay? Yeah, I think, I think that speaks volumes. And then he was at great pains to say, look, I hope I've not sold anything here that going into the world of celebrancy is easy. There are, there are so many rogue training courses out there. I don't want people to think it's like a sedan chair being carried into this industry. He even wanted to clarify. Said it's so important to do your research, because there are, there are so many people out there who prey on the vulnerable. And he said it wasn't cheap to do the training course. It was between two and 3000 pound. Was it?
56:39
He had to pay Yeah, it was, it was a reasonable investment. And I think that goes to a question that's asked in different contexts about different types of courses, is, is Buyer beware? Very much so and, and if it feels too good to be true in terms of it being low cost, it probably is too good
57:06
to be true and the over promising. You know what we do within our business structure? We are on the side of caution more often than with regard to success rates in startup businesses. And I think that's what he was saying, if you, if you're involved in a trainer who's reassuring you that you are going to have a booming business, that you're going to be doing that, he just said, enter into it with caution. So I think it was right for us to honor James's caution there and and bring that to the fore of our Epilog. But oh my word. What a guy, what a what a story. He'd a bit right. He'd have been my favorite teacher, my favorite bus driver, my favorite seller. He would have just been all the favorites, to be perfectly honest, because he was just a really, really decent, decent person who'd gone through a series of life experiences, and maintained his humility, his compassion, his humor,
58:07
so grounded. Yeah, so grounded. And I think, I think where we came to in terms of actually what he thought he wanted to do. And I have no doubt, had the circumstances been different, he would have been a lifer in terms of teaching, and he would have been one of those great teachers that you and I recognize from our own childhoods and all the rest of it. But I think to get to the point of it was just that, it was just a different job title, James, you're having the impact. You're doing what you wanted to do, just in a different place. And I think that's magic. I
58:48
think what was interesting for me grounded is he sorted himself out and everything. But the one time I saw him change and met with resistance from him and saw a vulnerability was the thought of being contracted back into a school. There was some damage done to that fella there, because it was on his terms. Yes, he touched lucky over lockdown and being furloughed and whatever was going on there, but his absolute hard. No, was I am not putting myself back into an environment, locking myself in a game. Now, that tells you something with somebody who only experienced something before terms, it must have impacted him massively. Yeah,
59:36
and, and I think trauma comes. Can happen quickly. Connie, it doesn't have to happen over a protracted period of time. And if you think back three years ago, even before I was formally contracted into Connexus, I'd said that I was unemployable because I. Was a hard no in terms of ever being formally employed again, because I was fearful of being contracted in whatever situation. So, yeah, I
1:00:09
get that completely. Get that we always equate it to going back into a relationship after a horrific divorce. You know, I'm not. I'm not doing that because it's been too scarring what's happened. But I could have when I when I've connected with him previously, and he went, I can tell a good story Sharon and and you can just see how that comes through. When he talked about putting pen to paper and being a wordsmith and and capturing the most precious exit of somebody's existence, you just know that he was so gifted, and he's born to that. And I hope that that people listen to his story, and because he was so humble, and because he's not talked about how it was easy they could do that. They could easily do that. I
1:00:58
think it's important to note as well that not only did he talk about with us afterwards, about the training courses and all the rest of it, that he made a very generous offer that if anybody wanted to follow up with him, that that they could get in touch. So James's links will be on on the Episode Notes as well. So he's a great guy, very, very supportive of other people. And if it is something that's of interest people, then I would, I would encourage you to reach out to him, because he will give you his time willingly. And just
1:01:33
imagine, right, if he ends up doing that. You know, that third category of the award, outstanding contribution to the wider world of it. Let's get him in that first category.
1:01:47
Oh, and you know where I, where I thought you were going was maybe he could be the celebrant for the first life after teaching wedding.
1:01:57
Well, there is that, there is that I've got something, something slightly different in mind, but what an amazing episode that has all left us a little bit reflective and comforted that there are still great people out there who can make a difference, even if it is in a life outside of teaching. Thanks again, my friend. Okie Coke, okay, I'll see you on the other side.
1:02:27
See you later.
1:02:30
Thank you, as always, for listening to our pit pony podcast. On behalf of Sarah, our guests and all involved with the production, we're so grateful for your support, please subscribe to our channels, follow us on social media, and we look forward to seeing you next time when we will have another inspirational story from a fellow pit pony who has exited the classroom and thrive. You.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
