048 - Know Your Rights

This week’s Pit Pony Podcast is a bit different - it’s just Sharon and Sarah, no guest, but lots of honesty, insight and real talk.

We’re kicking off a three-part mini-series by tackling one of the biggest foundations of protecting yourself at work: knowing your rights.

From understanding the Burgundy Book and STPCD (NB Sarah had a little moment and forgot that the ‘S’ stands for ‘School’!), to decoding part-time contracts, directed hours, capability procedures, and those "informal support plans" (spoiler: they're not really a thing) - we’re arming you with the knowledge you need.

We also get a bit feisty about the dangers of assuming your school will always do the right thing - and how knowing your legal rights can empower you in tough situations.

This is a must-listen if you're still in teaching, navigating challenges, or planning your exit.

Subscribe and hit the bell so you don't miss it - and if you found this helpful, leave a comment or share it with a teacher who needs to hear it.

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Edited with finesse by our Podcast Super Producer, Mike Roberts of Making Digital Real

Transcript

Thank you to our sponsors, Little Voices. Are you a teacher with a passion for drama, music and performance, or feeling stuck in the classroom? Little Voices gives you the chance to step into a role where you can truly inspire young minds through the arts. This is a company I know well and admire. 

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Plus, with the support of a nationwide franchise network behind you, you can run your own successful business, doing what you love while teaching in a way that truly fits your life. Hello and welcome to the Pick Pony podcast with myself, Sharon Cawley, and me, Sarah Dunwood, in which we talk to teachers from all walks of life who exited the classroom from what they thought was a job for life and thrived on the other side of teaching. Coming up in this episode... Hello listeners, it's me again. 

I promise this won't be the thing forever, but there's just going to be a sequence of these with me at the start. So in this episode, we are going to talk around some things that group members have suggested, and this is the first of a sequence of three, and it's logical in my head, the order that we're doing them. So in this episode, we're going to be having a general chit chat. 

It'll probably get a bit feisty at times, but sitting around the idea of knowing your rights and we'll see where it goes. So I would like to welcome my dear friend, Sharon Cawley. Hello, friend. 

Hello. No, you're right, because what we did was we put a post in the group, didn't we, a couple of weeks ago and asked our group members what they would want us. Yes. 

And I think it's important to say two things before we start to do these little episodes. Number one, we are not the font of all knowledge of employment law. We don't know your individual contracts. 

We don't know what map you're in. We don't know what's going on. We're going to talk generally. 

And my other little one is within our group, double check the advice that you are being given, because I think know your rights. It's a good way to start. Know your rights. 

Yeah, completely agree. And it's helpful actually to put a health warning on. And we're really careful in the group as much as we can be with the size of the group and the volume of comments that we get in a week, because we are now at the stage where there can be in excess of 20,000 comments a week across the posts that go in the group. 

And sometimes people do give bad advice, but it's bad advice or it's bad advice or, or, yeah. So we do try and correct or if it's really overtly bad advice, it'll get removed. But ultimately, with all of these things, it's down to you and knowing what's what. 

So I think where I wanted to go with this, and we'll let it flow, but I really want to kind of cover STPCD, which I can never remember what it stands for, but it's, it's really important in terms of your rights. Burgundy Book 1265, because that came up as a, as a thing that, that lots of people wanted to talk about how the 1265 hours is really pushed to its limits and beyond. Contracts, part-time, and I want to have a conversation about the phrase informal support plans, because I've got a right bee in my bonnet about that at the moment.

So I'm going to play the part, imagine it's GCSE drama. Okay. Of somebody who needs certain things explaining to them, because we take things for granted.

And you rattled off there a lot of teacher speak. Yes. STCPDC, I nearly said STI or something like that. 

Please don't let me go down that route. Or is it your statutes, which is teachers paying conditions or something? Document, yeah. Document, right. 

Burgundy Book. Okay. The very sound of it sounds like something from the 80s.

So let's start with a bit of unpick. What is this statutory teacher's pay and conditions document? What is it, Sarah? So it sits alongside the Burgundy Book. So let's go back a little bit. 

Back in the olden days, before the internet, there were two key books in school. There was the Burgundy Book and there was the Blue Book. I don't know enough about the Blue Book to even begin to talk about it. 

But the Burgundy Book stemmed from, if my recollection is right, the big push in the 80s when me and you were at school. Do you remember all the teachers' strikes, all of the rest of it? If I remember rightly, it came about, it was the consolidation of teachers' contractual rights in schools because obviously it was pre-academy days, so all schools had the same thing. It's big, you can find it.

It's linked on the NEU website and the NAS website. You can search for it online. It's a beast of a document. 

It's an absolute beast of a document, but it's the absolute. This is what your statutory entitlements are as a teacher. It defines the resignation periods. 

It defines all sorts of things. And unless you're me, where you might read it start to finish, it's one of those things that should almost be your default go-to if you've got a question about is this right? And it sits along STPCD because STPCD is updated annually, and it includes things like the pay scales and stuff like that. But STPCD is where it defines things like what the 1265 is for. 

1265 is your maximum directed hours. So, it's the hours that you can be directed in the school day. So, it will include your timetable teaching. 

And it's the thing where increasingly on the group, people will say when people have got a query about am I expected to attend this? Am I expected to attend that? A lot of people will now say you should have a directed time calendar in terms of the school should publish one at the start of the year that says these are the things that everybody is expected to go to. This is what nights your parents' evenings are on, blah, blah, blah, so that it's planned out for the year. So, Burgundy Book and STPCD are really important. 

And you know the way my brain works, it remembers... I was about to say silly little things, but they're not. So, for example, I will regularly quote paragraph 51.9, which is the instructions about the expectations of part-time teachers. Part-time teachers cannot be expected to come in on a day that is not their standard working day, regardless of whether that's an inset day, or if there's a parents' evening, or if there's an open evening. 

If it's not your day, you cannot be expected to come in. You can be asked to come in, and you can agree to it if you get time off in lieu, so toil, as it's referred to, or if they're prepared to pay you, but there cannot be any expectation of you coming in. And that, for me, that example is why STPCD is so important. 

It's where your rights are sat. Burgundy Book is where your rights are sat. Your contract is where your rights are sat. 

It's also where, and I'll flip that, it's where your responsibilities are sat as well, but it's also the same for the employer. It's where their responsibilities are sat. And from multiple personal experiences, not just with me, but people that I know, when you actually hold up one of those documents and go, oh, but no, it says this in STPCD, that pushback in statutory guidance, you can't do that. 

You're not allowed to do that, and you can do it in the nicest possible way, but no, this is what my contract says. This is what my... because you're not being a troublemaker at that point. You're sticking to your contract.

You might be telling yourself you are. You might have to step out of a real comfort zone, but flip it, do you think for a second that the employer won't exercise that contract, exercise their rights with you as their employee in the click of a finger or a blink of an eye, they will enforce contract. So actually, for me, it's not about being militant. 

It's not about being difficult. It's about knowing what you are entitled to and what you're entitled to say no to, because I think there's a step back further from there. Teaching, and I think it possibly applies to the NHS and different things. 

We attach so much guilt and emotion to what we are doing. Well, if I don't come in on the day they've asked me to, because it's a parent's evening, my parents will not be seen. Fundamentally, I think one of the most empowering things you can do, yes, you've got your documents, you've got your book, you've got your rights, is reframe the relationship you are in at work. 

These are not people. This is not a head teacher. This is an employment relationship. 

I'm your employee, you're my employer, and we are working within the framework of employment law. Brief interlude, dear listener. A couple of questions.

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And that is absolutely interesting, because as teachers, and I think for us, I mean, you and I have been in that world for over 30 years piece now. But I think as teachers, the unspoken expectation that I hate to invoke it, it's a vocation. You should give all of your time to it.

You should sacrifice yourself completely to it. No, it's a job. I'm going to love your job. 

Yeah. But it's a job. You do things. 

What's interesting is we spend a lot of time in the tuition world, obviously, because of our business. And what I love to see more than anything is when a teacher comes out of the classroom and they go down the world of tutoring. And particularly like with our franchisees, terms and conditions with clients are everything. 

And very quickly, a tutor will enforce terms and conditions because they are in a contractual arrangement with a parent and they get into a world of pain if they don't. They're a bad payer. They're letting me down on the last minute. 

There's no cancellation policy. I love working in the world of tutoring when I see empowered ex-teachers, whether that's they're in the civil service, they step into the world of I know my rights, whether they are setting up their own business. It is that pocket and that world we've got ourselves into where we have forgotten what fundamentally is our relationship. 

It's know your rights. And like with any boundary you put in, the minute you do your first one and you realize the world's not spun off its axis, you empower yourself. And you and I have talked about this in the past, but disabled with fear, I'm worried about my job and what you go in with evidence.

And it might be a quote in an email. Just I just to let you know, I won't be in tomorrow. Bang. 

There's my quote. All the very best. Thank you. 

Let's see how that lands. Yeah, it's interesting because I'm I've just I've scooted back into my head to the episode that we did with Amy about Amy Mead. Yeah. 

And about the time off and also the the support package that was built up around her and how cautious she was in that new employer when she first was asking for help to the to the difference once she was empowered by her employer to say you're entitled to this, that and the other that she now just goes, well, I want this. I want that. I'm entitled to this. 

And she doesn't think about it. And I think that's a that was a really powerful episode for me when she talked about that, because because that's more of what needs to happen. Yeah. 

Take the people out of the equation. Yeah. Take the emotion, the emotion, the people stop thinking about the head teacher and how he or she is going to respond when you do that email. 

Stop thinking about SLT and what they will be saying behind my back. Yeah. And one of the things I've noticed with a lot of members who I support when they are at home with a spouse who's not in teaching or a partner or a parent. 

People who sit outside of this world are just aghast that somebody goes, well, why are you going in? You're not you don't have to go in. It says in your contract. I know. 

But and that's where sometimes teachers don't feel supported by the people around them because they're not in that world. They know their rights. They know boundaries with employment. 

So I think that was a really, really good starting point about knowing where your rights are, knowing where you can access your rights. Absolutely. And I think it's also really important to know about the Burgundy book as well, that it was updated in 2023, which was the first time since 2000 that it had been updated. 

Wow. Now, there will be people in maths. Some maths don't follow Burgundy book. 

I was going to ask you that. How did they get over that? Because that's the way the system is. Although I think if I'm right, don't quote me on this, anybody on the Internet. 

But I think the white paper that's in place at the moment is going to start pulling back some of those some of those things to do with maths. So certainly there's a there's a change coming in terms of pay. So maths can set different pay scales and sometimes they're much better than the standard pay scales. 

But in other cases, they're not. But yes, that might be a consideration when when you're choosing your job. Yeah, yeah. 

And but it will always say in contract somewhere it might be buried that they follow the Burgundy book or they don't. And I think at this point in time, if if your school isn't a Burgundy book school, so if it is a local authority school, it will be. Most maths or significant proportion of maths do follow Burgundy book, but there are some who don't.

And I think if they don't, then your default then is to what are my rights under employment law? Because I go back to the example of part time. Regardless of whether your school is a Burgundy book employer or not, as a part time employee, you are protected under the law that that your part time status can't can't lead you to be in a situation where you are treated differently than a full time member of staff. So the same status that is in STPCD about you can't be required to work on a non on a not your usual days. 

That exists in law. It absolutely does. So it doesn't matter where you're reading it from. 

The root is the same because I'm writing thinking some maths don't recognize unions, right? So what does that mean? Right? What it doesn't mean. It doesn't mean that you can't have union representation. What it means is that again, my understanding is that some schools won't allow union representation in terms of going into a meeting. 

Yeah, no, no, no, because you're you are legally entitled to have a union rep with you in certain types of meetings, not all certain types of meetings. It doesn't matter whether the school recognizes the union at that point, you are legally entitled to have a representative with you in certain types of meetings, certain types, you're not. But it's more to do with, you know, like collective negotiation and that sort of stuff. 

But recognition of unions is that does not negate your entitlement to have union representation. And that's interesting. I think that's really important, because one of the things I find in our group, and for those who are listening to this, who are not a member of Life After Teaching, it's a Facebook group. 

And basically, because we allow the anonymous feature, nine times out of 10, if we've allowed a, if we've allowed some kind of a post to go through, we've pretty much made sure that person's safe, they've not identified themselves, that kind of thing. And they'll ask a general question. And it will genuinely, generally, sorry, be to do with what are my rights in this situation. 

And people's default comments is union, union, union. Well, actually, from what we've just said there, the union will only ever be translating what is in those documents, whether it's the Burgundy book, the STCP, D, your employment law. So defaulting to union isn't always the route that we recommend. 

It's going back to the title of this episode, know your rights. And then when you go to the union, you can check that you're on the right track and what you're doing. This is about empowerment. 

And the best way you can empower yourself is with information and law and awareness of what's going on around you. Now, we talk about know your rights and sitting under that big umbrella heading of know your rights, there are frequently asked posts on a particular theme, Sarah. And I think one of them sits around going to the doctors with work-related stress. 

What does that mean? I think you've covered the part-time one quite well. And the final one, after we've done work-related stress and what are your rights surrounding that, is that the next episode? Have I jumped ahead? Yes. Okay. 

We can touch on it. Is this just the general know your rights one and then we're going to go? Yeah. Okay. 

Sorry, listeners, for us going off tangent. I'm on the back of an envelope. I'm doing the best I can.

So yeah, we will do that in another episode, knowing your rights specifically around our most frequently asked questions. But I think going right back to where we should be talking today, I'd be interested to know, just as a straw poll, because I get this all the time when I'm supporting members of the group. Well, what does it say in your contract? And guess what they always say. 

I haven't even got a copy of my contract. I don't even know where it is. That's not uncommon, you know, in teaching to not even have your contract to hand. 

I think I have to be careful about generalizing. I know of specific instances where people haven't got their contracts. And actually I know of at least one specific instance where somebody was given the page to sign their contract, but not the contract to read it. 

And they still signed the contract. And this for me is where as sometimes, and please don't take this the wrong way listeners, but I sometimes have a bit of a facepalm moment. You wouldn't sign all of the documents for, I don't know, buying a car with at least having a skim read of the... So, why would you do that with the job? And I think part of it is that we go into jobs, not just in teaching, we go into jobs kind of on the up.

Oh, I've secured that job on that day. I'm dead excited, all the rest of it. And you don't think about what will happen when it goes wrong. 

So, take it out of jobs. Prenups in marriages are increasingly becoming a thing and not just for the very wealthy, because the thinking about what happens when it, if not when, if it goes wrong, having those things in place at the start, knowing what your entitlements are at the start, actually can take some of the pain out of it when it does go wrong. So, I think for me, if there's any newer, younger teachers or newer teachers going into the profession later, read your contract, actually read it. 

And once you've signed it, if you've not had a copy of that signed contract given to you within a few weeks of actually signing it, then you hound them for it. And I think it's a life lesson, right? Fundamentally, where disputes happen, what we do, we default as human beings to morality in a dispute. And I'm going to use an example, neighbours arguing about where a fence can go, right? You can have as many moral arguments as you want. 

That fence has been there since my mother owned this property. It's always been there. The neighbours want to shift it. 

They've no rights to do it. But guess what happens at the end of the day? Guess what decides that? What is written down in some form of agreement or law or contract? And you can have all your moral outrage, all of your need for sympathy and understanding and empathy. It comes down at the end of the day to what is in writing.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And that then takes me to something in terms of a specific example and a bit of a soapbox for me. 

Increasingly... Climb on board, Dunwood. Climb on board. Get your docks firmly on the box.

Firmly on the box. I would say in the last 12 months, I have seen more and more posts referring to, these are the precise words, informal support plans. Okay. 

Previous to this last year or so, we've seen them referred to as support plans. And the word informal has started creeping in in front of support plans. And this is my soapbox. 

There is no such thing as an informal support plan. A support plan is pre-capability more often than not. It's the informal stage of capability but the support plan itself is not informal. 

I'm going to pause you like I did with Burgundy Book and SPCTD and all that palaver. How many letters? Don't know. All the letters, mate. 

As long as I don't keep going sexually transmitted disease in my head, I'll be all right. Let's go with all of that educational vernacular that came out there. Start with capability, please. 

What is capability? Oh, jeepers. So, capability is a... In any employment environment, there will always be a policy to do with capability. And it's fundamentally, it's what the formal process is that an employer uses to address employee underperformance. 

So, it might be underperformance due to a lack of skills, a lack of knowledge, lack of ability, but it's different from misconduct. So, you have two routes in terms of when it might go wrong. It's either misconduct, you've done something wrong, it's disciplinary, or it's capability and it's that there's underperformance of some sort. 

This is the reality. Underperformance of some sort that is related to that person's ability to do their job, not that they've done something wrong. So, in any workplace environment, regardless of whether it's teaching or not, there will be a staff handbook or there will be a set of policies and there will be a disciplinary policy, which is where misconduct sits. 

And there will be either a standalone capability policy, or there will be a performance management policy which has capability within it. But somewhere, there will be a set of procedures and processes that are written and formalized for that employer in that context about what happens when somebody is underperforming. We'll get away, we'll come back to underperforming in a minute.

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And there is a process with that. And again, you sit in the world of human resources, personnel management, all of that sort of stuff. There is a staged process with it. 

Because you don't go straight to, well, this person ain't doing their job so they need to be sacked. There's protections. And so what usually happens with, and I am really simplifying it, but what usually happens is that some sort of issue has been identified, and there'll be some sort of informal resolution first. 

And that might be where a support plan comes into play. So there's a conversation, you're struggling with X, Y, and Z. Let's help you. This is what a good employer would do. 

Let's help you with that. We'll put some training in place for that. I'll come and show you how to do this. 

We'll do this over the next eight weeks. We'll have a weekly check-in, we'll review, blah, blah, blah. But it's informal and it's about support and mentoring and training.

It's about the employer putting in the mechanisms to actually help that employee develop the skills, the knowledge, the ability to then be able to move forward and carry on doing their job correctly. That's informal. If that doesn't work for whatever reason, then you go into formal capability, and that's where there would be a formal meeting.

It would be on record in terms of the discussion, what the specific issues are, and there would be a specific improvement plan with targets that need to be achieved. And you might have seen it in the group. Increasingly, people are referring to PIPs, which are Performance Improvement Plans. 

So, the language is starting to change in some schools that they're putting these PIPs in place. That is the pinning down of what needs to be improved, how, by when, and what specific additional support and training that the employee is going to receive to help them do that. It's monitored, it's reviewed. 

The ideal is that it works and that PIP is closed off and it's all hunkerdory. But actually, if, and again, not just specific to teaching, if that process is done properly and there still isn't the improvement, so therefore the capability issue still exists, then the employer can dismiss. Okay? So, that's the reality of in law, in HR, in... Oh yeah. 

Mate, if I'm taking my daughter to a dentist, I want to know he's capable of doing his job. Yeah. So... Yeah. 

Absolutely. We're not saying that people don't do, that people don't exist in workplaces. Don't warrant, don't warrant this, however.

But I think, for me, if you think about that as a process and what we are seeing happening with people in our group and that you and I are talking to individually, probably on average, on a daily basis, that we're speaking to a different person each day of the week, I think the clarity about the processes is getting muddied because I think, this is my personal opinion, that support plans are being misused by some head teachers in some schools and there is an assumption that telling somebody that they are being put on a support plan is so upsetting, unnerving, terrifying, whatever adjective you want to use, that they won't push back, that they will crumble. I was just about to say because in the annals of history of teaching, the very mention of that language normally signals the death knell of somebody's position at that school because if we go right back to the beginning and we go right back to the start point, who validates that they have got grounds of underperforming and that's where the problem comes and listen to the narrative. I've just had three really great lesson observations. 

I've been through Ofsted, my results have not dipped, I've never changed how I mark my books but I've been whisked into an office and through slight of hand and smokes and mirrors, I'm now being told I'm underperforming and it's at that point where there needs to be that kind of, I always use it in terms of line of duty, you need to actually outsource another department to say, is this justified? Oh yeah, completely agree, completely agree. It's who's policing the police? Absolutely. We always say, don't we, it's women over 40, men over 50, all of a sudden I'm speaking to a woman on the phone who's going, my husband has got excellent results, he's now been waltzed into an office and told that he's on an informal support plan because they don't understand what's happening and no amount of the clarity of the process of what you've just described is ever going to sink in when they know that they've been done up like a tipper because they're arguing and they're saying, but give me the evidence.

Right, this is where I come at it from and part of it is because my little neurodivergent brain likes things to be absolutely flipping accurate, careful not to swear. I know what's happened is that two things have been melded into one in terms of the language. This is an informal capability process. 

Part of that is that you are on a support plan and that's now been melded into informal support plan and so I'm being panicky. There is no such thing as an informal support plan. You're either on a support plan or you're not.

Mm-hmm. You can't have an informal support plan. It's just, you're either pregnant or you're not.

Correct and I think that's it for me and I think, and again, increasingly over time, over the last four years in the group, is it four years? Yes, it is. Over the last four years in the group, no, it's five, isn't it? Sorry, distracted, distracted, that the amount of education that's gone on in the group, more and more people will pay that forward in terms of, and they will, somebody says, oh, I'm being put on a informal support plan. I'm seeing it increasingly where people go, well, there's no such thing as an informal support plan. 

It's a support plan, but you now need to go and check your school's policy on because you need to check that they're following their own procedures because if they're not, that's the chink in the armour. Yeah. That is, and you cycle back round to know your rights. 

Okay, I don't know all of our policies in our staff handbook off by heart, but if a situation arises or you ask me a question, I will go, bear with, I'll go to the staff handbook. This is what we should or should not be doing. And what we can and can't do. 

Absolutely. And I think what happens sometimes is that, and you know, I've said this multiple times, we've got leaders in schools who are not HR trained. They don't know, they have a HR department, but sometimes they'll act without necessarily going in and they'll put something in place. 

And then there's a bit of scrabbling behind closed doors to actually unpick the fact that they've not followed their own policy. But you and I know, having talked to as many people as we have, that when somebody does push back, when we say to them, have you checked the school process that is outlined in their policy? They go, oh, they haven't done that. Okay. 

Get your union rep and go in and you challenge that. Because as much as the word informal support plan capability puts the fear of dread into a teacher, so does grievance. So does workplace bullying. 

So does constructive dismissal. We can all bandy terminology round. And if your backside might be going in a room, that's the bit about know your rights. 

If I am in your duty of care as an employee, you don't just have a stick. I have a stick. And going back to the neighbours who were disputing over the fence, it's never going to come back to personalities. 

It's never, what is written down? What are my rights? What's the employment law? And sometimes we don't touch lucky with our union reps. Some union reps are like a chocolate fire garden. Others are like Mo Molan. 

You know what I mean? You go in with what you've got and that's where you sit in the middle. And it's almost, take the shock out of it. Now, this is what I always say. 

I speak to a lot of people who've been suspended, right? They've been whipped in, out of the classroom. A bomb's been dropped on the world and they are then spiralling. They've been suspended or they're under investigation.

I'm going to give some advice that applies to all three. They've mentioned capability, support plans. They've mentioned investigation. 

They've mentioned suspension. Say nothing. In the first instance, when you are blindsided in that environment, say nothing. 

The best thing you can do is take out a pen and say, I'm just making notes on everything you say. Let that be the default heartbeat you go to instead of falling apart and crying. So, you almost go in prepared.

Thank you. Is this being recorded? Can I make notes? And that straight away signals I'm not going to fold like a cheap suit to you. Under the table, I might be a swan. 

Yeah. Yeah. But you're not catching me like a rabbit in headlights. 

Go home and cry your leg off, but then you can formulate a plan. And I think there's something really important there as well about making notes and making them as accurate. And we'll come to this in the next episode, making them as accurate and detailed as possible. 

But also, and I've had this recently with somebody that I've spoken to where they've had a telephone conversation with an employer, discussed what has been going on. And fundamentally, it's that dual scenario that actually the person is being put on the informal part of capability, but actually the person is subject to some quite persistent and pernicious bullying in the workplace. And when they've brought that up with their employer, the employer is tactically not doing anything about that, but is focusing on the capability. 

And I had this conversation with them where they said, oh, they sent me an email with the bullet points of what we discussed on the phone, and they've completely ignored what I shared factually about what's been going on. And I said, well, then that's fine. You email back to them and say, thank you so much for your notes. 

I would like to add that we also discussed X, Y, and Z. And they've got two choices at that point, which is they acknowledge that that is correct, and they adjust the notes, or they don't acknowledge it at all. But at some later point when you do need to bring it up, you have communicated, you've got that time and date stamped. I brought that to your attention. 

And even if you said we didn't discuss it on the phone, I brought it to your attention in writing. So I think that's really important as well. And I think, sorry, sir, I'd like to think we're moving into a whole different world here.

You and I know you can only get on a Zoom call. And if you turn on an AI tool, it captures the entire meeting. It gives action points. 

It transcribes what's being said. I would love to see a world in which these kind of conversations, through the use of technology, through the way in which it's not them dooring the skills PA is taking notes. We are moving into a world where we don't have to be saying, can you include these points? Because I think if we lean into the protection of what technology, you've seen it yourself with our Zoom calls, it's beautifully done. 

You've got to read it. You've got to double check. Yeah, absolutely. 

And sometimes it goes a bit wonky or it interprets something. But again, that's still that back check that you check it. You go, oh, that's not quite right. 

You can make the action. You can share it with the person and go, is this, from your understanding, an accurate representation? We can record meetings so they're there. But I think just going back to what my first point was there, irrespective of what lane you find yourself in, you're in the crosshairs.

So right from the get-go, tell yourself you are in a fight situation here. It can go away. It can resolve itself. 

It could be an all-or-nothing, as we call them. But don't assume it is. And then find yourself in a fistfight in six months' time wishing you'd done this. 

If something feels off, pause, go home and armour up. And I think that's where we'll start from in the next episode. Perfect. 

For me as well, just a couple of quick signposts. Yes, we've got Burgundy Book. Yes, we've got STPCD. 

There is specific updated guidance from DfE that was released in July, ready for September, which is to do with performance management, which includes capability, which people should be reading. Because I'll go to performance management targets, the number of schools that are still setting data-specific targets. So read that guidance. 

But also a common question in the group, I haven't got union, I'm not a member, or I came out of the union and this has happened and the union now won't cover me because I've joined a different one. There are other organisations. ACAS, as an example, sit purely in the world of employment legislation. 

I'm sat here looking at a screen that has got a whole page about conduct and capability procedures when managing performance. There are other places that you can go to see what the reality is in terms of your rights, your entitlements, who you might be able to go and ask for help. So anyway, that I think, I think that was really good, Sarah. 

And I think there's some key takeaways. And I'm hoping that people will listen and revisit and go over some of the, I mean, obviously I put you on the spot as, you know, welcome to Mastermind, what's your specialist subject, know your rights in teaching. And I will end on that, that kind of like health warning, do your own homework, but always remember at the end of the day, when you are in that dispute situation with your employer, morality very often does not count for what's going on and fairness and unfairness. 

It's what's written down and that's what will serve you well when it comes to a dispute. Right, pal? I love that. Yeah. 

Are you still on your soapbox or are you looking for a break? Well, I've got off my soapbox. I need to have a cup of tea. Um, and, and that was a real flipping test of my understanding of, uh, and, and to be fair with the, with the, with the performance and capability procedures, I did go and check what the law is.

So whilst we're talking, that's the law, that's what, uh, that's what a policy should look at, but don't take the word of two middle-aged women as absolute verbatim. Not when you've got laws, you've got the internet, you've got chat GPT, you've got people, but fundamentally, they're your rights and you should know them. Agreed. 

Right. Time for a brew. Right.

See you on the other side, pal. Let's get em. Ciao.

Thanks for staying with us during another great episode of the Pit Pony podcast. And on behalf of myself, Sarah Dunwood, Mike Roberts at Making Digital Real, we wish you all the very best and we'll see you soon. If you wish to contact me directly for a support session or a clarity call for your next steps, please find my link in the comments below. 

See you soon.