058 - Pit Pony Giselle Wild - Classroom to Safeguarding Young Lives

After 17 years in the classroom, Giselle Wild left teaching at Christmas 2024. In this episode, she reflects on a career built on creativity, care and connection - and the unraveling that began after the traumatic birth of her son.

From art rooms to leadership roles, Giselle gave everything to her students. But delayed PTSD, sleepless years, and a system that demanded more than she could give eventually led to a complete breakdown.

Now working for the Breck Foundation, Giselle supports young people to stay safe online - bringing her deep empathy and experience into a new role that values her in ways the classroom no longer could.

This conversation is about identity, invisible trauma, and what happens when a system you love starts to erode the person you are.

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Transcript

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Hello and welcome to the Pit Pony podcast with myself Sharon Cawley and me, Sarah Dunwood, in which we talk to teachers from all walks of life who exited the classroom from what they thought was a job for life and thrived on the other side of teaching. Coming up in this episode... And then my kids were going to breakfast club and after school club and I just thought, for what? Like what am I doing this for? And I keep coming back to it's all right when it's working and you're getting your boost and your sense of worth and your sense of well-being from work but then there's always that saying isn't there that you are completely replaceable at work. Hello listeners and welcome to yet another episode of the Pit Pony podcast in which we speak to teachers who have exited the classroom and thrived on the other side and today we have Giselle Wild with us. 

So Giselle only left at Christmas 2024 so she's recently out of the classroom. 17 years doing the job she loved and was born to do. Now Giselle's stocking trade is as an art teacher. 

She went art teacher, assistant head of year, head of year, head of art so she was working her way through but yet exits the classroom a couple of months ago. So Giselle welcome, welcome, welcome and can you tell us what it is you're doing today please? Oh thanks so much for having me. So yeah so do you mean today what I've been doing in general? No artist what's your job title today? As much as our listeners might be interested in you pegging your washing out because it's been glorious sunshine, we'll we'll stick with your job title love all right. 

You know what I'll tell you now that is one of my favourite bits of partly working from home is how quickly washing dries. I'm getting through loads and loads and loads but so at the moment I'm currently a my official title is a project coordinator for the Breck Foundation. Fabulous can't wait to get into that and I'll wait to unPit all about that amazing organisation but how we start is how we start.

You exited at Christmas what were the circumstances surrounding the decision to leave the job you loved? I mean it depends kind of how far back you want me to go really. I think I'm quite an unusual case probably in the sense that it's quite a long story and really 85% of my career in teaching has been really really positive but I'm also a really I'm quite a spontaneous person as a family we make decisions quite quickly and when something doesn't quite feel right we we do something about it really quickly so it's kind of it's a really great career in teaching and then a very clear crisis point I suppose you'd call it which which happened sort of over the summer and then ended in me exiting at Christmas like you say. So I mean I can I can take you through from the beginning and that'll give you kind of different reference points. 

I think it will seem like I'm almost meant to still be in the classroom and until we get to the point where things really change so yeah if you're happy to bear with me I'll talk you through from from the beginning and I'd love to do that. I think it's important because every story has similarities but they're unique stories at the same time and that's what this space is about with storytelling so tell us your story. Yeah no I'd love to so I mean I'm definitely a classic case of somebody who was born to be a teacher you know and I used to line up my dolls and take the register from a very young age and so I was born in France and we moved to England when I was in year six and even then so I was bilingual in French and English and I knew at that point that I wanted to teach French lessons to English English kids when I moved over so my mum helped me out and we ran this class where we were teaching French lessons and I loved it and that that was where it was kind of born really.

So then I went to university and I did an art degree fine art degree with the sole purpose of being an art teacher so it wasn't about it was never about being an artist the end goal for me was to teach art because that was the subject that I loved and that was the subject that I believed was just an amazing vehicle for reaching young people and I was really passionate about it so that's what I went on to do and I was really lucky that I got my first job in Newcastle in the northeast and the head of department was just incredible she's still a very very good friend of mine and she's also recently come out of out of the classroom and she really nurtured me and she really kind of grew me as a professional and a little bit my trade and then you know I was really good at it I don't want to blow my own trumpet but I was really good at my job and I and I just loved it and then so I was quite happy working away in the arts department and doing what we were doing on a daily basis and then about five years in because I'm quite I like to stay where I am do you know I mean I don't flip from school to school once I'm in I like to be there for for a while so an opportunity came up to be assistant head of youth and I'd always wanted to go down the pastoral route I thought you know my relationship with kids was really strong and I took that on and I think that was the first time really that I've experienced kind of I don't call it bullying but I'd certainly call it unpleasantness in the workplace so I was in an office with the head of year and the admin lady and it was just a little bit I can see now it kind of came from like maybe insecurities and and quite complex things that were going on but ultimately I felt really unhappy in that space and I was told that I would never I'd never be ready to be a head of year and I you know I just wouldn't get that position moving forward so instead of dwelling on that I used that as a as a springboard and I thought you know what sod you I'm gonna go and get a head of year job and I'm gonna go and do it and at the time I was also in quite an unhealthy relationship that was yeah not particularly great and my best friend had moved out of Brighton after uni and I thought where's the furthest I can get away from Newcastle I'll go to Brighton but isn't it interesting that in the space of that time you've talked about people who share the same floor space you talked about head of department who nurtured you who taught you your trade who is still your good friend now and in the same breath in the same staff list because you didn't even allude to who it was but that's fine somebody said you are never going to make a head of year and it resulted in you leaving we never ever understand the impact that colleagues can have on an individual and not just detrimentally Sarah talks with such passion about some of the mentors that she had isn't it just interesting Sarah that same space same floor space totally different approach I to quote a Depeche Mode song people are people you're gonna get that aren't you and and and sadly I think at a really blunt level some people just do not realize the impact of their words they just speak they they say what they think that's something that I don't understand because I'm very measured about I know I speak what I say it annoys the hell out of people because I pause whilst my brain is thinking is this okay yeah it absolutely kills you I know that but I can't understand people who just go word vomit without any concern for the for the impact that it might have on somebody yeah and I think the thing is you know I mean you're so incredibly young when you can start teaching you know I mean I had six hoarders at that time and I was 21 and they were 19 and you're so young and you're so vulnerable and and you've Pited this career which is you know a massive massive commitment and people should be there to build those foundations and put that scaffolding in place but I think as well teaching you know as a as a staff network you're almost like this weird kind of family aren't you that you you go through such a roller coaster of emotions it's not even day to day it's hour to hour everything's so heightened and everything's so emotional that um yeah words can really and I've I've always taken that on you know like I've had a lot of PGCE students that I've mentored and and I've only ever thought they just need building up because to be really honest if you Pit this career that's that's brave enough you need all the support you can get I mean technically speaking a 21 year old is year 16 if you've got year 12 year 13 a 21 year old is year 16 yeah you know if you're going to look at it like that you've got a year 13 and a year 16 there's not much difference but anyway we've digressed because you're on your way to Brighton so I'm on my way to Brighton so I I did I really took it and in the past I think prior to that that comment would have would have really wobbled me and would have really ingrained itself right in my core and it was the first time that I consciously thought I'm not going to take that I'm going to use that to to do something else so I applied for this job down in Brighton and it was head of year seven and I've got it I set off at four o'clock in the morning to drive down to the interview my little pink Fiat 500 and um I pulled up and and I got it and it just everything just kind of fell into place from there so I had an amazing seven years at that school probably most importantly I met my lovely partner who's now the father of my children so he was assistant head at the school he started at the same time as me he was my line manager for a bit which I kind of think if you can get through that as a couple for any period of time then you're doing well um and it was great and and it was it was a really really good time of life and then in um 2017 our whole world was flipped upside down and I think you know what what I'll what I'll tell you is quite personal and it's quite emotive but it kind of builds those foundations for understanding what teaching has meant to me and therefore what a massive decision it was to exit because it kind of illustrates um yeah what a massive part of my life teaching has played so in 2017 we found out that we were pregnant it was brilliant we were so excited I had a really healthy pregnancy I had the pregnancy glow like my hair was growing and my nails were strong and I loved it and I have no reason to believe that anything other than an amazing thing was about to happen and then we tried to have a home birth and because we so we did 36 hours of labour at home and we kind of weren't checked on enough and there was a few mistakes that were made um and my little boy my eldest was um so he got stuck so his head was out and his body was in and he didn't take a breath for 19 minutes which so they they kind of stop stop the resuscitation process at 20 minutes usually because the the quality of life will be so compromised and you know it was a really really serious thing that just came totally out of the blue and completely knocked us for six and again the the school was just amazing obviously we both worked there I I was off on maternity leave and they were really the head teacher was amazing he was so supportive with Adrian being off during that time to support me and again I kind of just cracked on with it and I think looking back I mean I went back to work full-time head of year when Frankie was six months old which considering what happened was was pretty soon it was pretty quick and and the reason for that is because at the time teaching was my whole identity and if I'm really honest it felt like if I'm back at work and I'm putting makeup on and I'm getting dressed for the day and I'm functioning then actually I can forget about this massive responsibility that's going on and you know we didn't know what the future would hold luckily he's so well and he runs and he walks and he you know we were told he'd be tube fed for life and he'd be in in a wheelchair and he's none of those things and he's an absolute miracle but at the time what I needed was to get back to work right which is a really weird thing but that again that tells you how much teaching was just a part of me can I just say Giselle at that point on behalf of myself Sarah and the listeners I couldn't exhale myself until you told us the outcome of what had happened and you went you didn't breathe for 20 minutes and then you continued the story and I'm thinking and what's happened so so sorry no no I'm so invested in what you were saying and I'm just like and the outcome is so frankly is the best best you could have ever hoped for yeah he honestly and I'll tell you you know I'm conscious of I don't want a drone on and I don't want to kind of divert from what we're here for but he really is an absolute miracle and the reason that he's so well we think is because at the time Brighton hospital was trialing um a brand new treatment which is a cooling mattress so they'd they'd realized that in um colder countries like Norway and stuff the extent of brain damage was actually stemmed because of the dropping temperature so Brighton hospital had one cooling mattress that happened to be on the level below where we were and once he was out he was on that mattress within less than three minutes so we think that's why he's so well but yeah he's an absolute miracle and we're we're very very blessed thank you so much for sharing that we we can to a certain extent take a sigh of relief there you can you went back six months very supportive school you needed normalcy school provided that for you so it's serving you your passion your job your vocation so you go back after six months so I go back after six months and as far as I'm aware I'm I'm coping really well you know I'm doing what I've always done I'm doing it really well I'm back in the swing of things everything's ticking along and then and then we got pregnant with our second little boy Dexter who was two years um younger than Frankie and um again everything was okay everything went really smoothly with the birth and he he's a healthy happy boy and then what can sometimes happen is that if you've had a really traumatic first birth the second birth can then trigger um what's called on a delayed onset PTSD so that hit me out of absolutely nowhere when Dexter was about one um I can't explain why I don't know where it came from but it happened and it happened three weeks before the very first lockdown so if you remember we we had no idea really what was coming it really did come out of the blue and and it just happened at three weeks before that first lockdown I for the first time in my whole career had to be signed off work things had really taken a turn for the worst and I was signed off for three weeks ironically and then when I was due to return it was lockdown wasn't it so I so I never really went back until I think it was the September wasn't it when we kind of started to get back to a little bit of normality from what I remember so I then again we were still at the same school um although Adrian my partner had moved on at that point so he he'd got a deputy headship somewhere else so it shifted a little bit in that I didn't have my kind of security blanket there anymore and I was having some kind of you know flashbacks in the staff toilets and it it just felt like it was yeah not quite the safe space that it had been previously so I dropped down to to just teaching and I'll say that in inverted commas because actually teaching five days a week compared to being head of year which is incredibly intense but you can escape to your office I didn't have that when I was teaching full-time five days and so I thought it would be a bit of a step down and a bit of a step back but it it wasn't and um that's when kind of the cogs start turning that I think you know when you've got your own kids and the demands on pastoral staff are insane I mean it's so responsive and it's so all-consuming that I just couldn't do it when I had my own two kids you know and I did a huge amount of work with a counsellor and I got better and I developed a really wide range of strategies to deal with what had happened to me and it was fine but actually that pastoral role was kind of done for me so it's funny when you're kind of describing it all and you and you realise how everything just has fallen into place it's a really funny thing to reflect on but so we then decided to move house because as I said at the beginning we're quite spontaneous like that and we will just decide that we want to do something like that so we bought a house which was more central Brighton and it was about half an hour commute from where we were and we would I was just gonna keep commuting because I was fairly happy and it's what I'd done for the last six seven years whatever and then the day the offer got accepted on the new house a head of art role came up at the local secondary school which is a three minute walk from the new house and head of art roles never come up on the south coast like if you get ahead of art role people tend to stay so the lady before me had been there for 26 years and that kind of tells you what I was stepping into it was amazing and again I had a really amazing four years and I bloody loved that school I really did but um you know it was a tough ride like I think being head of a curriculum area is very different to to a pastoral lead I think you can manage your time more effectively but it is it is still just all consuming and and we didn't have an easy time you know we had one of we had a member of the team who was very very poorly beyond any kind of support that we could put in place um but we did really well you know like again I don't want to blow my own trumpet but we we had the best results in the school for three years running and we turned the department around and it was ace I loved it felt really proud of what we'd achieved but it wasn't easy and so when that member of staff was off I was basically doing two two well lots of jobs at once but I was writing cover lessons for her every week I was dealing with cover teachers and I was trying to do my job and it was it but do you know what what I always say is it was fine because it was paying off so at the time you know it was like oh go and see Giselle for how you nurture independence and creativity you know go and see the art department they're amazing and and all those things that are eating everything that you've got was all right because it was paying off and it was and it was working so that's where we kind of got to and then now we're getting quite close to to the turning point so I don't if if you want to jump in I mean I can't wait for the turning point I'll tell you that now but there's a couple of things for me I was head of year yeah I was head of year and an English teacher and I used to say they are two completely different full-time jobs there isn't a crossover there isn't a cutting of a corner that's going to serve me as a head of department and as an English teacher they were two completely separate full-time jobs and personally when I got the head of year's role I was whisked in on the because I think I got it in the May and in my first week in post in June the line manager went right what don't you know there was no induction there was no training I found I was catapulted into this world with very very little grounding that I needed to do a role that involved some of the most extreme safeguarding concerns dealing with social services dealing with agencies that I had to look up before I even knew what they stood for let alone what they did so I felt out of my depth in many ways passed up brilliant with kids march me down a corridor with a walkie-talkie what you doing stood out here do you want me to phone your mother perfect at that but there was this world that sat away from me and then absolutely no consideration given I think I got two threes or something like that to do this job it was crazy I mean I'm talking 2006 to 2012 kind of thing well there was that and then what I what you also touched on is the setting of this cover work I am hoping that in today's day and age chap GPT and AI is doing the heavy lifting for teachers in that respect I don't know me and Sarah have been out too long to know if that is the case or not but setting cover work there's got to be a better way than than that what do you think Sarah setting cover work complete side issue a separate issue not side issue that diminishes it it's interesting that you and I have got very different experiences because I was head of year I came back off maternity leave into a head of years role that was new in a nice middle-class leafy suburban school with 1200 kids on the roll and it was a lovely school year groups of 240 and I was also a head of department as well there were no TLRs at that point you were on the it was NPS plus whatever do you remember the old point scale so actually people did have multiple management roles so I had a middle leaders role subject and a middle leaders role head of year and you had two threes I was given five non-contacts for head of year and another couple for subject so I I was all right to be fair but I completely recognized what you said Giselle that yes it was all consuming but there was an element of that head of year role where actually I could go into my office and do head of year stuff for a bit though there was there was a bolt hole as such and I think for me what I'm reflecting on is is what I know now about how the role is for people in schools now and over the last few years the last decade head of year roles that I've seen and I manage people with and stuff as a senior leader been no resemblance to the head of year role that I did from 2000 to 2003 no resemblance at all and so that's why I'm being a bit guarded about commenting because I my experience is the glory days of it it was it was idyllic as for cover work it there has to be a better solution that but but then it comes to you as a head of department you said something it's all right when it's all consuming if it's all paying off so of course as a head of department in a department that you've turned around that is thriving that you want the kids to do well and not that anybody doesn't want the kids to do well but of course you're going to set the cover work because you want the kids who are being covered yeah yeah and that that's what I was just going to say you know I really because it was a completely new role for me and I you know I don't know if it's something to do with it being the local school and it you know my kids schools attached to the high school as well and I just felt like it was my baby and I guess I kind of took on a real element of of wanting to control everything as well so I'm sure there was more effective ways of doing it but I wanted to know that those kids were they weren't just getting a plug the gap that's the trap isn't it through the trap and I've I've been this really interesting kind of sort of a side issue but sort of not um when I so when I saw the head of art role advertised I phoned the school because it was a full-time role um and I wanted to work four days a week and I phoned them and I said would you consider before I you know go through the trouble of applying or whatever would you consider appointing a 0.8 head of department and um and they said yes and um when people had asked me about that later on because that set a precedent in school you see so I was the first member of middle management that was part-time and my first reaction was always oh I'm just so grateful you know I'm so grateful that as a mum I can work part-time but still have a leadership role and actually you know on reflection I it's just not okay like firstly we shouldn't feel this is a complete sidetrack but I feel really passionate about it um why should we feel grateful that we're doing you know because actually also there's nobody else doing that 0.2 of that jobs there's no one else taking on that 20% I you know and we did actually eventually change that and and we did get the boundaries shifted on that but initially I was going oh I'm so grateful that I can fit five days working for four days paying because I'm a woman and a mum who who has been granted this opportunity to work part-time but as I say you know eventually that did change and and the boundaries shifted with that and that was really pleasing but yeah just a side rant there that I felt we need to work yeah I feel grateful I'm being shafted Brief interlude dear listener couple of questions are you a tutor or even a pit pony considering tutoring and do you fancy getting in the room with myself and Sarah Dunwood learning about the wonderful world of tuition then why not join us at the National Tutors Conference hosted by Conexus Tuition on the 29th of July 2025 it's at Chesford Grange Kenilworth links to the tickets are in the show notes below and we will both see you on the other side so we've come to that point we've come to that point where you've talked us through and then you've said and then it started to change what happened Giselle we have so it was so it was a really clear moment for me and again I keep coming back to it but this is my personality that I'm very decisive I'm very you know sporadic in in a way and I and I go with my gut basically and so you know we we were surviving and we were all right but we were stretched at home and my partner had moved up again to head of school by that point and the boys were going to breakfast club at eight o'clock in the morning and I was Piting them up at six o'clock at night and obviously Frankie has you know some additional needs to deal with and Dexter is a five year old and it was you know we were coping but we were stretched and then so I don't know if you if you know much about how kind of art assessment happens at GCSE but you have a cohort and you mark everything in-house so so we had 45 kids doing the art GCSE and we had 45 kids doing the art the photography GCSE so you mark their each kid's coursework and each kid's exam project in-house so there's only two of us full you know kind of full members of the department so we did all of that and then and I'm just thinking now and I'm breathing a sigh of relief even as we're speaking because this is the period of time when this all happens so this is now yeah this is kind of a year ago I suppose um so then the exam board request a sample of 12 kids regardless of how many you've got generally right so we've got our sample requested and I and I still to this day I I do not genuinely understand what happened I don't know if there was some sort of agenda to get things back to pre-covid I don't know but what I do know is that we didn't change anything so from the formula and all the stuff that I introduced in my first year as head of department to getting to massively increasing results best results in the school every kid in the class was doing something different so we have none of this you know 25 portraits of Picasso wasn't like that the kids were were working as independent interesting exciting artists you can tell how passionate I feel can't you in my voice and we didn't change anything we did everything we marked as rigorously as as we always have done and we were fair and we felt that we were being honest and they they looked at the sample and they said we're going to pull it because what happens is if they disagree with one grade from the sample they will then pull down the whole cohort so 90 kids so they said we're going to pull down the whole cohort by not one but two grades so all my grade fives were threes um all my grade sevens were fives and we appealed it we fought for it we had the community behind you know everybody was outraged because there was no anyway it's a separate issue but that's what happened and we appealed it and they rejected the appeal and we got lots of advice and it just didn't go anywhere and you know I had kids banging at the door who couldn't get into college because they haven't got their grade and and art was their passion and they'd come out with a four rather than a six and it was just horrendous and I went through a member of staff who was really really well respected and I've been asked to run numerous cpd sessions and mentor other heads of department and all of that staff to it was weird because overnight I went to somebody that I felt and they probably weren't but that I felt people were looking at in the corridor and going oh you need support like you're you know you need a bit of help why don't you go to the school next door and have a look at how they do it and I was thinking but I know what I'm doing like I'm not perfect but I know what I'm doing and I've never had a single mark lowered in my whole 17 year career so how has this happened and and I don't know and then my kids were going to to breakfast club and after school club and I just thought for what like what am I doing this for and and I keep coming back to it's all right when it's working and you're getting your boost and your sense of worth and your sense of well-being from work but then there's always that saying isn't there that you are completely replaceable at work and however good you are you know people have been in schools for 25 years and everyone thinks oh my god what we're going to do when they leave and then and then everyone's forgotten by the next year and I just had a real moment of clarity so that was in September where I was like what am I doing this for if if someone can just come along and whip the rug out from under my feet so that was when it started but it's it's interesting reflecting on who you've become because when you were in your early years somebody told you you were not going to be ahead of year so if you made damn sure you took that criticism and you fueled it differently to go and progress now 14 years later you have this avalanche of criticism self-doubt and everything and you go enough do you think motherhood do you think age do you think what do you think changed you in that respect I think I'm really easily wobbled and and I think that's the pattern I think that's that's always been the case so I love and I really take to heart any kind of comment from other people so when I'm being built up and I'm being supported and I'm being nurtured I absolutely thrive and that's why my first head of department was so kind of pivotal in in my career because she Pited out my strength and it is so rare that that happens and it's an absolute crime how how rare it is in management but that's how you do it you Pit out someone's strengths and you build on them and I'm a very kind of I'm a person of extremes so I'm either feeling really confident and really good at what I'm doing and then some just one thing can completely throw me so I think I think if I'm really honest what was really the turning point was how quickly now I was with this sounds really kind of um I don't know what the word is ego centric yeah ego centric thank you chef that's all right that's teacher indulgent but it was it were if I'm really honest with myself it was how people started to see me differently at work and I felt embarrassed and I felt like I'd let loads of people down kids staff but but the main thing was that that was in balance with but look at the impact it's having on my family yes just not worth it anymore so that was it so I was kind of dealing with like my own struggles professionally and and how I was being regarded and all of that but it was always is the payoff worth it is the balance out and at that point the balance was completely thrown off so that was it done so that was it and then you know as as you know we have a ridiculous timeline don't we in education of handing in notice and all of that which again really limits people to what they can move on to that that's a real problem that kind of having to give that terms notice but anyway I saw so I joined the I don't know if I'm allowed to say am I allowed to say where I was looking at jobs and stuff is that we're not we're not the BBC love you can call it depends what you said you're gonna say something like only fans I'm probably gonna have to mute you out I don't know where you were looking go on that was a turning point no it definitely was I can't believe if there was one thing I thought wouldn't crop up during this podcast it'd be me and only fans no worries one of my flow chips are just dealer says Giselle well it's not been on only fans I'll explain to Sarah what it is after the podcast she's looking confused yeah no oh but this one's aside where were you looking for this was looking at the so a brilliant website not a not a website a Facebook group Facebook page called the work from home hub UK perfect right and the reason I was looking on that is because it's just the one lady that runs it and she just posts really good quality work from home jobs and for me so this is the big thing right for me to leave this career which I've worked my backside off to get to and I've genuinely loved and I mean this I always say I've loved 85 percent of my teaching career so across 17 years that's pretty good going I think and it was a massive massive decision for me because it was my identity it was my crutch when I needed it it was my social circle it was the reason I got up in the morning like it was massive so I knew my kind of line in the sand was that it had to have an element of working from home because also I'm turning 40 this year and I need to be able to we when I need to that's really important but I you know my partner again has so he's now head of school and you know the boys are getting older and actually it gets harder as a parent as they get older I find because they need to talk more so I knew my line in the sand was a work from home job so that's how I came across the work from home hub and there's nothing from like you know um pyramid schemes and stuff like that on there it's just really good quality work from home jobs and I saw the the BREC job come up and it was just dead rigged you know when you just feel like think that's the one like I think I think that's the one and I applied for it and what was really um uh what really drew me to it was that you could apply in October and they were going to do the interviews and stuff in October but it was a January start so that really fitted in with the ridiculous school notice period because it's really unusual to have a January start for a job so I applied for a couple of other things as well that I didn't hear back from and then this was the first one that I got an interview for outside of teaching and did it and got it right that was it love it so tell us a little bit about the BREC foundation what what's what's the backstory there Giselle? Well it's it's just I honestly I just feel like I've just landed on my feet massively it was so lucky and obviously I've only been doing it a few months but so the BREC foundation is um a charity that is set up in the name of a young man called BREC Bednar I don't know if you remember the case it was a really big case at the time so in 2014 he was groomed and then murdered by his groomer and it's quite an unusual story because his groomer was also a young man and the foundation was set up by BREC's mum so that's why we're called the BREC foundation and we go around and we educate and we empower kids to just be safer in in the online space basically but you know using BREC's story as as a real foundation for that and as a face to something that actually happened that we need to learn from so that's the foundation as a whole we're we're quite a small charity small but mighty um so we're a team of seven and then there's different strands to what we do and my particular strand so where I'm a project coordinator my particular project is training and recruiting young ambassadors to represent the charity so when I explain this to teachers it I think it blows their mind a little bit because that that is my sole role that's it that's what I do so I work with lots of schools across Sussex and I uh present to kids so it's perfect because I go into schools for like an hour two hours and I interact with these amazing young people but I can also leave at half and walk out and go home and um and and do some admin and sort stuff out so yeah I just feel incredibly lucky and do you know what the first thing that my manager asked me so firstly I had a two month induction period right and when we were talking about timetables and stuff earlier teachers people just go right there's your timetable year nine are coming in at 8 45 off you go on Monday but I had a two month induction period and the first thing that um my boss asked me was how would you like to be managed like what gets the best out of you and I thought I've never been asked that and to her that was just a completely standard question that she you know that that's just ingrained in in the ethos of the foundation but that really stuck with me because I thought why aren't we asking people that that's that's massive how do we get the best out of people. Hello loyal listeners we're not going to go full-on Bob Geldof during Live Aid but if you could give us some of your money even pennies to help us fund the amazing Pit Pony podcast the link is in the episode notes below it's called buy us a coffee and we really do appreciate your contributions thank you. So yeah sorry I feel like I'm really rambling not one bit because what you've done there is you've brought something to a beautiful full circle because you've talked very openly very candidly about yourself I think and you've been incredibly self-reflective and obviously I've just warmed to you completely and I know Sarah has you know you told me you needed a wee we've invoked only fans what's not to love and and I feel that the end of it is is such a powerful ending because what you're doing despite the fact that all of your stars aligned with what you wanted this is what I want I want work from home I can't believe I'm still working with young people but you're working for such a wonderful foundation and I am hoping our listeners will go on a bit of a deep dive about that because of course many of them are teachers themselves and obviously if you've raised some awareness about that particular foundation on our podcast all the better and the work from home hub as well we're all about the shout outs for the right people yeah so that brings us on Mrs and I hope you've remembered this I'm going to ask you a sliding doors moment I do so right Giselle Wilde originally from Le Francais what's your sliding doors moment love so I thought do you know what I've thought really long and hard about this because there's there's a lot of them right and there's so there's things like um you know being a like I've never been able to attend my kids assemblies for example and I took Dexter on a school trip the other day and there's so many different things I will have to say just a little tiny story I know we're short on time but again this will make you laugh because this is how ingrained teaching is in us right the day before I was due to start my new job I was texting my new boss like a mad woman and I was saying is there anything you need me to prepare like do I need to have anything ready for tomorrow and she was like no no like you start tomorrow that's when the job starts and I thought with oh like are you yeah we're just trained to work before we start work aren't we so that was a bit of a realization but I think and I hope this qualifies as a sliding doors moment but for me so I live three minutes away from the school that I used to work at and the school that I really loved working at and I thought that would be really hard um but actually what it does is every day it makes me reflect with a real deep sense of relief that I don't have to do that anymore but my kind of sliding doors moment was when I left that school and I must have done something different to my other schools because I think when I left my other schools I got like a crusty cactus and a john lewis voucher but when I left that school I got three car boot loads of stuff from kids presents gifts flowers wine lots of prosecco and I had to take home three car boot loads and I remember closing the final boot load and just closing it and just this absolute sense of relief because in that boot is so much attachment and dependence and you know you're carrying so much from these kids that you're so invested in day to day but I think what I really want to say to people is that it's okay to close that boot and and to just leave it whether whether it's you know for temporary or whether it's forever it's all right to just close that boot and to have that lifted off your shoulders and I think yeah I mean Frankie literally said the other day mommy your new job has changed my life because I'm there for him and I've you know breaks with him and I've yes it's a massive pay cut but I'm saving about 600 quid in in child care because I can do every school run so it's been negligible really and um you know yes I don't get the holidays but it's quieter in the school holidays because I'm working with schools so I'm around and it's fine and I'm not tired like I'm not I'm not crawling towards the holidays I'm just and there's nothing in my inbox that can't wait until nine o'clock the next day if it comes after half five and and this job I absolutely love it and it's it's just one role and I think as teachers we have a million things on our shoulders at all times and I can just do this one job really well and then box it and be a mum and and a partner and that's massive it's huge. 

Wow what an inspirational story Giselle what an absolute pleasure it has been to listen to your story and I have absolutely no doubt that you have you're very humble in in the way in which you know please don't let me ramble on you've been utterly captivating and you've had me on the edge of my seat so many times and it is I'm so glad that the happy ending is there and a remarkable a remarkable sliding doors moment that's going to stay with me that I love I love that so on behalf of Sarah Dunwood myself and all of our listeners I would like to thank you so much for being what I consider a really memorable guest on the Pit Pony podcast. Thank you so much it's been perfect. Hello friend hello what an episode what a woman really one of those where you almost stop realising you're hosting and just listen you know really captivating enjoyed it so so much there's so much to unPit so I'm going to I'm going to start off with something and I know it resonated with you massively the impact of words the impact of an individual's words on a teacher a kid a colleague that can really impact you because in my writing thinking Giselle was told she was never going to make it as a head of year and she took it as fuel and then when she was criticised again more tired later on different points in her life it floored her we do not really understand the impact of comments and words do we what are your thoughts pal? I said it in the episode I know it drives people potty that I am slow to speak at times not when I'm not when I'm on a soapbox I'll I'll word vomit then but when I'm really thinking about what I want to say I will pause I will slow down particularly if there is the remotest chance that my words could be misinterpreted or could be could land in such a way that the person receiving them takes something different from that I don't think certainly in in my later adult years I tend not to speak without thinking about how it impacts on people because I've seen too many times people's words really impact and either the person who's saying it is oblivious to it or there's intent behind it and and obliviousness to a point I can I can excuse but when there's intent that's something different now I think with Giselle and I might be wrong I didn't ask her at the time I think if I remember rightly the context of that you're you're never going to be ahead of year was also framed within here in this building because there's never going to be an opportunity for you and I think that's why she kind of why she accepted that and then it fueled her okay well I'll go and do it somewhere else I will find somewhere with that will let me do that but without that framing and and I think had it happened 10 years later that would have landed very very differently somebody telling you you're never going to be and and I go back to this and I say it so many blimmin times you wouldn't say that to a kid even even if that was actually true you're never going to be a brain surgeon because you know in your heart as a teacher that potentially that child is never going to get the qualifications that they need to go on that pathway but you always temper it you always find a way to deliver that message in a way that doesn't destroy the person who's on the receiving end and I think you're so right and she said it that and you said it in the in the episode that 14 years later when she found herself in in that critical situation for her that it didn't fuel her at that point that it was it did the complete opposite is it worth it on balance is it worth it no it's not I'm out I always I've told you this time and time again when I was head of year in Warrington and I had a year nine kid so I was not only head of their year but he was in my top set English and he came to me and he said I'm leaving I said where are you going he said I'm going Ashton on Mersey to it's the Manchester United Football Academy and I was like seriously really why are you doing that you're really clever and I remember I had I had his parents come in and I was really positioning myself going what are you doing here this kid's clever and I always remember sitting opposite them and saying do you know what you need to really think about whether or not he needs to go to this football academy because he could make a great PE teacher and be like no he's got a talent he's been spotted and the kid I was talking to was Jesse Lingard who ended up playing for England Manchester United can buy and sell me and sometimes we have well-meaning conversations with staff and and colleagues and we try and protect them and we try and protect children but who are we to say to people there's nothing for you here or you know and I think it's really important to be careful to be careful with our words and to you know tread lightly because you are stepping on my dreams kind of thing you've just invoked Yates I think at that point why the hell not I think I think it's fundamentally to do with having an awareness yourself of how your words might land with people and I'm not holding myself up as a paragon of virtue because I know I've been short with people I know that I've probably said things like well I know I've said things that that I've regretted afterwards but when I do come to that point of regret I go and make good I always try to make good um and and not with a oh not with that kind of passive aggressive or diminishing oh well I didn't mean it that way which puts it back on the person for the way they've received it no it was my words yeah I was wrong I'm I'm genuinely very sorry I'm gonna own it I'm gonna own it there's not enough of that no there's not because actually what they then do is I didn't mean it like that you've misinterpreted it yeah I'm sorry if I caused you offence yeah what's the other one um the the word intimidation and that anyway we can go down that route forever so she's really good and she twists and turns in her journey and I think what's really important and the one thing I do want to pull out with because it has happened in the past when you have those rogue years when your GCSE results dip or something's gone on this was a highly experienced head of art she was setting cover work coming out of her ears she was doing all sorts of stuff and then something happened didn't it where her results took a real hit and I think that's her to be fair yeah and and I get it I've this podcast like transports me back in time every week there was uh 2012 was the year where the English GCSE results were really hinky nationally and it really hammered our school the school that I was at at the time obviously because I was kind of exams and and data I'd seen the data the the afternoon before so I was I was basically I had an email ready for the head of English to say I know you're on holiday in France but I need to get my head together with you because I know this is not right because I know what you do in your department so so this is so out of kilter it it was something like fundamentally it it worked out because it was still the the A star to C and all the rest of it it worked out that from from B grade downwards everybody was about a grade or a grade and a half out of of where genuinely we we thought they should be and it wasn't just our school so there was there was actually something at the time where a lot of schools went this this isn't right and of course because it was large scale the exam boards would not budge on it and it and it really had an impact we dealt with that in that school myself the head the head of English an interestingly the chair of governors got involved but such a supportive like little is it a quorum when you've got a little group of four um who basically went right let's go through the data let's go through the kids work let's get the evidence let's let's construct this properly and there was not of a hint of a whisper of a question about that head of department's capacity skill about any question let alone a blame absolutely not and and actually interestingly when he left um when he left our school which was probably about five years after that he actually said he talked about that in his speech about being supported about the work that me and those two other people did with him to support him at that point and that that that was the model of how how leaders lead and managers manage and so it can be done and there was nothing in that school actually the school rallied around him because they felt the injustice of it because of the way we messaged about it so i think going to giselle she talked about that almost overnight that feeling that colleagues were looking at her were pitying her were thinking that she you know she'd done something wrong that she wasn't this this great teacher that that had been doing cpd and all the rest of it and actually that could have been very different had the senior leadership actually managed that in a day i don't know how they managed it in the school i know the school put a a remark and then appeal in and all the rest of it but being blunt there needed to be a pr job there to support a colleague 100 and and that it goes to leadership and management yet again i mean going back to that period of 2012 13 40 we knew what what games were being played oh yeah they were they were about to come in and go teachers want to be glad to be shut of this old style gcse where let's face it it took out it took a load of us about four years to understand what a six meant and parents still don't get it they still want it in old money and it was it was so interesting to watch her slowly get knocked and knocked and knocked to the point where you know she she dealt with a traumatic birth situation there was a whole host of things and this is where we use this expression with children when they are in crisis you build a team around the child so why can't we build teams around teachers and i think that's where we miss miss real tricks and that's where our pit ponies when we talk to them and we see how they're thriving outside of the classroom there is always that hint of sadness that they could have been thriving within the classroom and i think that's really critical and there hasn't there hasn't been a pit pony that we've talked to where you and i afterwards haven't actually gone what a loss to the profession and when you listen to how giselle talked even when she was talking about that particular cohort's artwork and the fact that every single one of them did an individualized very personal project to them no there was no generic there was no homogenous you know all do this or all or do it in this style or whatever it was she is clearly so passionate about a subject and even with that happening talking about a 17 year teaching career where i think she said 85 percent of it was was brilliant couldn't fault it which is and as she said which is not bad for a 17 year career i don't think she was still so passionate she still clearly wants to work with children and impact children but but what a loss again of somebody with such energy and such clarity not just about children but also about about the teams around her cover work getting the cover right crikey we're in the world of ai you know there's so much we could i just wonder how skills are adapting and and embracing the wonderful world i i don't know and i don't want to go there in terms of conversation because i don't know we don't know we don't but my litmus test sarah whenever we're talking to people whether it's as pit pony guests or in our world i have one question and one question only when i am speaking to somebody who's exited the classroom or thinking of exiting the classroom would i want you teaching my kids that's it would i want you with all your flaws with all your faults with all your experience would i fundamentally wanted my child in your classroom would they have felt safe seen nurtured and encouraged and nine times out of ten this is where the real sadness comes in we've had some pit pony experiences and i know we've got some future episodes where children's behavior is the problem and i'm thinking of one episode in particular which is going to be a great episode that we've got coming up and nine times out of ten the issue is not the kids yeah it's the staff and that is the real sadness but i think another great episode my friend another fantastic opportunity to to share space and i go back let these be records that are captured historically of individual stories of teachers who've left and that's why i think it's really important that our listeners and it's not a bit of a plea in terms of marketing or anything like that but start to share these our group has talked about a lot within staff rooms a lot and you and i only have to go to events and weddings and social events and people come up to us and go oh my god you'd be amazed i've joined your group share the podcasts and share individual episodes if they've spoken to you send them on whatsapp messages signpost people because our podcasts are resources they are opportunities to listen to resonate to get the inspiration but more than anything to capture real moments of poignancy and we have a body of people who've exited teaching and they shouldn't have done no they really so on that rather sad note but a happy note for the Breck foundation 100 who's got somebody's deeply passionate and is putting that passion elsewhere now finding ambassadors yeah finding young people she's bridged that gap between working with young people still feeling as though she's making a huge difference which she is go and google the Breck foundation go find out what they're doing particularly if you're still within a school yeah and you think your young people would benefit from working with the likes of Giselle i don't know if she's geographically limited or what's going on but certainly she would be somebody who you could reach out to i know she's on our facebook group she's commenting she's she's a great great person to get to know so my friend okay we draw this fantastic episode to a close and where am i going to see you sarah to the side 100% au revoir friend au revoir thanks for staying with us during another great episode of the pit pony podcast and on behalf of myself sarah dunwood mike roberts at making digital real we wish you all the very best and we'll see you soon if you wish to contact me directly for a support session or a clarity call for your next steps please find my link in the comments below see you soon