067 - Pit Pony Revisited: The Summer Series - Grant Decker

In this powerful reissue from our archive, we revisit the story of Grant Decker, an educator whose career took him from the classroom to unexpected new horizons.

Grant speaks candidly about his early years in teaching, the highs of inspiring students, and the increasing pressures that began to chip away at his health and sense of purpose. He shares the moments that forced him to pause, reassess, and ultimately step away from the profession he had once imagined would be his life’s work.

From navigating burnout to rediscovering his own identity outside of teaching, Grant’s journey is an honest exploration of resilience, self-awareness, and the courage to start again.

If you have ever felt the weight of the job pressing too heavily on your shoulders, or wondered what comes next beyond the classroom, this is one to listen to.

With thanks to our episode sponsors (Click to visit their websites):

Conexus Tuition
Little Voices
LS25 Web Design

Buy Us a Coffee ☕️

Loving the Pit Pony Podcast? We’d be so grateful for your support! We’ve set up a Buy Me a Coffee page where you can make a small donation to help keep the podcast running.

https://buymeacoffee.com/thepitponyclub

Voice Message Us: https://www.speakpipe.com/pitponypodcast

Contribute to our 'Silenced by Support' Campaign - complete the questionnaire, read the report, sign up to the mailing list.

If you've been affected by any of the issues raised in our podcast there are organisations who can help:

• Education Support
• The Samaritans
• Mind
• Andy's Man Club

Join Us:

• Subscribe to the Pit Pony Podcast
• Sign up to our mailing list here: http://eepurl.com/i1L5ck

Thanks for listening 🙏

Edited with finesse by our Podcast Super Producer, Mike Roberts of Making Digital R...

Transcript

Hello and welcome to the Pit Pony podcast with myself, Sharon Cawley, and me, Sarah Dunwood, in which we talk to teachers from all walks of life who exited the classroom from what they thought was a job for life and thrived on the other side of teaching. Coming up in this episode... The way you're speaking to people, me in this case now, is totally unprofessional, it's totally unacceptable. I'm out, see you later.

You can deal with it, you can speak to whoever you want, I'm gone. I wish there'd been a little bit more forthright and for want of a better term, in the conversation, aggressive, because I think that would have created a bit of shock, because instead what I did was remove myself professionally as the last time I spoke to that human being face to face. Hello, I normally say Pick Pony podcast listeners, but I'm going to say pop pickers today, because we've got a wonderful episode with a fabulous, fabulous Pick Pony guest, Grant Decker.

Even in my pre-record chat with him, it's so memorable and it's going to be, if nothing else, a gloriously entertaining episode for you today. Grant, teacher of 15 years, went into teaching when he'd been in a band, was a DJ, and in his own words, it was time for him to get a grown-up job. And he came into teaching in the back door through the role of the TA, behaviour mentor, male role model, working with children, improves some of our kids with long-term complex issues, that's where Grant found his niche.

And eventually became a teacher because he applied through a skit and nobody tells the story better than Grant himself. Passionate man about the impact he made, passionate when he gets talking about young people and their lives. But Grant's leaving, Easter 2025 is done because in his own words, he's got nothing more to give.

So it gives me the greatest of pleasures to introduce Grant today. Grant, you're exiting the classroom, what are you going to be doing? Yes, well, I'm now the owner of a record shop which has come about through many years of desperately trying to find a little bit of an exit strategy from the classroom, really. Brilliant, brilliant.

Grant, cannot wait to hear it and I've seen the pictures of your shop, it's amazing. And we will talk about that wonderful, wonderful business that you have towards the end of the podcast. Because let's begin.

Walk us through, now you've got into teaching, where did you start, what happened? 

So yeah, I was in a band, we were touring around, I was a DJ every weekend, I was running a local music venue in Leicester and I was burning the candle at all ends and it just felt like I had to grow up and do something sensible as well. When a friend worked in a primary school, she was a perceptionist there and she just said, why don't you come and have a little look around and see if you can, you know, put yourself to use. And I remember just walking in through the door, meeting the head teacher.

In my own, I was dressed like a rock star which would have been ridiculous, with a hat on and cowboy boots and everything. So it was a bit out of place and all the kids were staring at me. But from the minute I walked in, I just thought, yeah, I like this vibe, it's cool.

It just felt great, it felt really nice. And then that was it, I just sort of, before I knew it, I didn't even have an interview. They just sort of said, do you want to start? And I was like, yeah, okay.

So I bought some real clothes, some grown up clothes and yeah, off we went. Helping kids with reading, helping kids, you know, with bits of maths and bits of English, learning along the way. I've never done anything like it before.

And then I quickly kind of found my niche in, you know, being patient and helping students with additional needs. Students that were kind of put to one side or, you know, found it really difficult to access the learning. And I found that I was pretty good at that, you know, engaging these students.

And because I wasn't a teacher, I didn't have the stress and the strain that all the other people of staff seemed to have because I was so new and fresh to it. I just seemed to have the patience and the sort of ability to kind of get on their level and understand that, you know, it's okay, we'll muddle through this. And then started putting things in place and then really, really enjoyed it and really put myself to it where I've thought, okay, if we can put a few, you know, things in place, like a, you know, a breakout room and things like this.

And I was just making it up as I went along, but it was all the right things. And the school were just, were chuffed because it just meant suddenly there were, you know, six less students rampaging around, climbing on the roofs and swearing and things. So yeah, it really did help.

But quite quickly, I sort of found that I wanted to further myself a little bit more. So applied to go to another school, which was called Woodstock. And I thought, oh, peace and love, man.

You know, I'm a rock star. I got to go work in Woodstock. Yeah, this will be great.

And it was far from that. It was in a very, you know, a hard place in Leicester to work, Stocking Hill Farm. And it was a lovely place to work, but it was a difficult place, difficult place.

However, on my first day there, I was seen as the saviour of the school, this behaviour mentor, this big six foot four guy who's going to come in, change everything. They gave me a walkie-talkie and went, we'll just call you when we need you. And my walkie-talkie didn't stop all day.

And I walked out into the playground at playtime. And in my head, the school was burning and tyres were on fire. And, you know, there were just fights everywhere.

And I was like, what's going on? I spoke to the dinner ladies and support staff, and they were like, nothing we can do now, nothing we can do. And they were just letting it run riot. It was absolutely crazy.

And within about six months, I felt like I just kind of, with support of some of the other, you know, teachers and TAs and stuff, we'd sort of turned a corner with it and stuff. And then before I knew it, I was teaching year sixes, you know, afternoon and PPA cover and stuff, way beyond my pay grade, but I loved it. So I didn't care.

And, you know, in that post, it became clear to me that I might as well just go for this and become a real teacher. So I applied for a skit course and off I went, that was it. A year training, had some great placements, went into a placement in a school that I absolutely adored and made a good impression.

And then that was my school that I went to work in for the next seven years. And yeah, I absolutely loved the journey getting there. Yeah, it was great.

So, I mean, I love it. I love it. I could feel your freedom.

I could feel your freedom of going in because nobody had taught you it had to be done otherwise. So you were doing everything right. You go into that school and you spoke with as much enthusiasm then about the next six, seven years.

Is there a difference between being a support member of staff and a teacher? Did you lose something of the impact when you moved from support to the role of more of an educator? I don't want to misstep with my words here, but did that change in role, did it strangle you in any way? Oh, absolutely. Yeah, it was really tricky. You've got so many rules and things that you need to do as a teacher.

Your day is taken up with 30, 40 things that you can do before you can even think pastorally, before you can think about the children's needs on that level. You know, you are ticking boxes all day long. And I think I was so lucky to come in, like you say, through the back door where I didn't even have an interview, didn't have to prove myself and I had no previous experience.

So I just did it my way. Whereas as soon as I got on my training course, I felt like brick walls were going up with certain things. And I was like, wait a minute, why can't we do that? Wait a minute, why can't we do that? And it was all about the curriculum.

It was all about, you know, pushing for tests and SATs and, you know, just to say this was all primary education. So it was all pushing towards that journey from year one to year six and, you know, getting towards their SATs really. That's how it felt a lot of the time.

Obviously, there were bits and bobs that were put in place, you know. But it definitely felt very different as soon as you went into the real world of teaching. I still had that huge enthusiasm.

I was really, really excited to get cracking on some amazing lessons and things like that and bring like the drama. But that's why I went to university. I went to drama school and stuff.

So I had that sort of background of making things exciting and, you know, engaging. But there felt like there was a lot of hoops to jump through all of a sudden, which was really quite tricky, you know. Balancing all those plates all of the time.

And that became even more clear as sort of, you know, I had a young family all of a sudden and then I had to juggle even more. And it just became very, very tricky. When you're young and you're enthusiastic and you've just come out to your training and you're ready to roll and you will work till one o'clock every morning, you know what I mean? You will plan all Sunday and it'll be fine.

It'll be great. You know, you've got the time. Doesn't matter.

But as soon as real life comes along and your priorities, you begin to see your priorities shifting a little bit. That's where I think it became a real challenge to spin all those plates at the same time, really. Yeah, 100%.

And I'm going to bring Sarah in now because I know she sat in stunned silence because you've talked about ticking boxes. I cannot tell you how many boxes of hers you're ticking. You're an old hippie.

You don't do things by the rules. You're into music. You two could probably talk about bands I've never even heard of.

You probably own collectively more Doc Martens than I own shoes. So you are right up her street and hats and all that kind of stuff. Sarah, take that energy.

You were a Senko for yonks. You've got a support guy. You've got somebody who comes into your schools like Grant.

You must, you must feel and the schools must have felt, surely, manna from heaven when this guy landed. Yeah, and I'd go back even further than that, than pre-Senko because as you were talking, Grant, I drifted lazily back to the glory days of the first few years of my career, which were exactly even, even you as a TA, that something really landed with me that there was so many things to do before you even got to anything pastoral. Well, that wasn't the case when I started teaching in 95.

It was nowhere near as restrictive. There weren't the boxes to tick. And actually you could do all of that other stuff that was really relationship-based with the kids.

And that's what I get from you is that real kind of sense of relationships with the kids and whatever it takes to get them to be doing what is right for them to be doing. But yeah, as a Senko, and I had the most glorious teams as a Senko. I was really, really lucky with TAs and HLTAs who just were so child-focused.

It was unbelievable. And when you get people like that land in your team with that level of energy and enthusiasm, you can't, it's a gift. It really is a gift as a Senko to have that.

But for the kids more than anything else, to have people in their day-to-day lives who are that focused on them. Yeah, it's bringing up some happy memories for me that. So Grant, you're in this school, you're starting to feel the pinch.

You've got your twins, you've got other responsibilities. How long do you stay in that role? How long does the pinch remain a pinch? Or do you start to change direction? Do you start to reflect differently? What's happening now? You're feeling a sea change. I mean, I think, I absolutely adored working at that school.

Up until the moment I left, I loved it. It was absolutely great. Loads of support.

Everyone there, I'm still friends with a lot of the people from the school. And it was a superb school to work at. And you felt part of the A-team.

You were really part of making a difference. In a challenging area, you know, and bringing the best education to students that might not have necessarily got that. And it really felt game changing.

And it was excellent. And the head was incredible. Absolutely incredible.

Super head. And it really was a great time to be there. I think when my twins were born, for me personally, it changed everything quite quickly because I couldn't keep giving that energy because I was very exhausted and didn't sleep for a year.

Because Grant, it puts a line in the sand. And I think this is what happens. You go to working with children, giving it a hundred percent.

And then there becomes like a word in front of it that other people's children, because you've got your own. And I think that's, I'm not just saying that for people who have kids, but it's really, really clear, particularly for dads in the profession, because we automatically assume that mums are the main carers and all that. And it's not.

Dads in the profession are missing out. And in many respects, they're putting other people's kids first. And when that gets into your head, it can guilt you like nobody's business.

Yeah, I think for me, one of the biggest decisions I had to make, me and my wife, we were thinking, what are we going to do here? You know, childcare wise. And I had to take the decision to go part-time. And that was going to be a decision that I was going to take for two years.

In my head, it was like a secondment, basically. I was going to go part-time so we could afford the childcare, basically. And so I could be there for that lovely first parts of their life.

So that was a great decision for me, but it put a halt to my career. And I think being in that school at that time, when everything was about career and progression and climbing that ladder, I suddenly wasn't climbing that anymore. So I felt a shift backwards for sure.

You know, in the fact that I'd taken that step back and then I think they thought, well, he's taken the step back, so obviously he's not as invested. I definitely was on the days that I was there, but I couldn't give everything because I just wasn't there. 24 hours, you know, 80 hours a week, you know, I couldn't do it.

So yeah, that was the big shift for me. And then I think from there, I kind of, my mindset completely changed. Like you said, family came first all of a sudden and, you know, I really couldn't give everything all of the time.

And those Sundays that I previously spent planning all Sunday and quite enjoyed doing it, you know, you might have a cheeky beer while you're planning away. It'd be absolutely fine, but I couldn't do that anymore. So then I felt guilty because I, even though I was giving 100% on the days that I was there with the energy that I gave and the lessons I brought, I wasn't giving enough in the planning.

I wasn't giving enough, you know, as those younger teachers without a family. I think that is the crux of it. Teaching is a great, great game for people to be in when you're at the height of your powers as a young person or a person without a family perhaps.

But as soon as you put a family into the mix or something outside of the remit of teaching, it doesn't have to be a family. It could be a sick member of your family or, you know, someone you love or something like that. Anything comes in, suddenly you can't, you stop giving 100% and maybe give 95%.

That 5% is enough for you to not be giving your all. Therefore, it's much harder to climb back in. That's how I felt anyway.

There's something really interesting for me and I am going to make a sweeping statement and let the trolls come at me. Teaching is not a family-friendly profession, full stop, it's not. And you listen to the language that we use about, you've just said it there, you stop being able to give 100%.

Well, and not being funny, why should we give 100% of ourselves to our job? Because that's not real. You take, I'm going to pluck a figure out of the air, it's probably right, 168 hours in a week of which you sleep a third of them or 50% of them, if you may. Why should the other hours of that week be 100% about work? We've got it wrong.

The profession, Sharon and I have been in and around teaching well over 30 years now. It wasn't a family-friendly profession back when I had my son in 2000. And guilt takes over that you feel like you do have to give 100% to your job at the expense of everybody else around you, your family, your children.

And that's wrong, that's wrong. What is wrong with somebody going into work, doing their job, giving the best that they can whilst they're in the workplace and then coming home and switching off? That's how life should be. Particularly when there were so many easy wins because I'm going to take you back to the 34 things that you had to do in a day that were totally irrelevant to what you were doing.

There were so many wins to streamline your role. The triple marking, the stamps of books, the filling out the admin, all that stuff, progress measures, inputting data, remove all of that, let you teach, you'd still be in that classroom now. There were so many things that we can shed away from teachers that are unnecessary, that they can still be giving 100% whilst they're in the building.

There's no reason why people should be talking about losing weekends, working till 10, 11 o'clock at night. That does not happen in the real world. It doesn't.

People do. If I spoke to my accountant and said, Phil, do you ever work till 10 o'clock at night? He doesn't. Shuts his laptop.

No, he does. Because that's reality. And in a sense, you did the right thing because a lot of people don't put such strict boundaries in soon enough for themselves, which is where they really start to become unstuck.

Because then what happens is, all of a sudden, Grant's not pulling his weight. Since those twins have been, you could have ended up on a bloody support plan. But just basically doing your job.

Anyway, you leave that school. What do you go to next? What's your next venture on this journey? So, yeah, I always knew back, back when I did my teacher training, I worked so hard in the first two placements with the idea that if I work, if I got basically my whole course done in the first two placements, then they would allow me to go and work in a SEND school. So I literally combined my course into the first two thirds just so I could have a placement in a SEND school because they saw that as not quite as worthy.

I think maybe, you know, it wouldn't quite give me the trajectory I'd need to work in the mainstream school. However, I didn't care. I did it anyway.

And that was just an absolute game changer for me. I knew that I would always come back to special needs. And I knew because of my training in the past with working in, you know, Prews and working with behaviour management and stuff that I would always, I would always come back to something different other than mainstream education.

And an opportunity came up, which was at that point, I really, I didn't really want, I wasn't looking to move, but an opportunity came up, which was to open a new special school, which was for students that were struggling in mainstream education, mainly with an autism diagnosis, but not exclusively, that came to this school. And, you know, we helped them, you know what I mean? We sort of integrate them back into education after what was trauma before. And it just rang a bell with me that was like, I need to do that.

That is, that feels like my calling, you know, to set this school up. And it was, it was a crazy, crazy journey because we didn't have a school to start with. There wasn't even a building.

It was a very small team of us. You know, there were six of us. And we had the help of a big trust who were putting all the money in and all of the ideas and stuff.

So, and most of us had come from mainstream. So our ideas on special education were a lot different to those who had been in SEN schools for a long time. So it was really quite, it felt quite game changing.

You know, it felt quite revolutionary. Sort of, it felt like going back to when I first started education and I had the brakes taken off. And it was like, yeah, do what you want.

You know, it's a new thing. So it's, you know, all your ideas are valid. And it just felt amazing to be able to do that.

I'm not going to say it wasn't extremely challenging because I think we're, the underside was that the trauma that these students have been through was extreme. You know, they had been pigeonholed into, you know, a mainstream education that just didn't fit them whatsoever. And then they came to a school where we were supposed to give them everything they needed.

But perhaps we couldn't quick enough, you know, we were still building the walls of the school when they were entering the school. So it was a tricky time, but it was, it was so, all right, I got my energy back 100% and I've just felt so motivated. I was back full time again and I was back firing on all cylinders.

The kids were a bit older then. I just had that. Yeah, I had the energy.

I had the spark back for sure. And like I say, it was, it was really challenging, really challenging. We had like serious, serious incidents of, you know, dysregulation and things that were really, you know, crazy times to think about, but we managed that and we grew with that and we understood that.

And then I ended up setting up a unit within that school, which was the students that couldn't deal within that school that needed to come into my little unit as well. So I ended up in the last year of working there with just a very small group of students that really struggled within that, which I loved even more because I had full rain. I think people were a little bit scared to come down to my class because they didn't know what was going to happen.

So I had full rain, like, I was like, oh, did you guys get observed today? Oh, right, no, no, no one came to see me. Right over the other end of the school and we just spent, we had a forest area, we set up a forest area and we basically just camped out in the forest, like, and going out into the community and people just couldn't believe it. You're taking your group on the minibus into town.

Are you mad? But that was for me, that like the biggest, biggest game changer, because I just, I loved it. It was exactly what I thought education should have been. You know, these guys didn't need the educate.

They were, they were so bright. They didn't need all the stupid pigeonholing that we put in place for them to pass these tests and things. They just needed, you know, great community work and to understand how to be excellent people.

And that was, that was my role. And I loved it. What a gift to those kids to have, to have somebody who saw that and, and was prepared to stand with them and facilitate that for them.

Because, because you, you, you, it's so lovely listening to you, how passionate you are about working with, with children, with, with those, those needs, because they're the kids who get lost in the system. And then 15 years down the line in adulthood, are so lost in adulthood that terrible things happen and they just need people to give them the chances that they need. I think that was my argument all of the time.

I felt myself saying like, these, these guys are like 13, 14 now, but imagine 25, imagine 30. And if we don't give them the implements that they need to deal with society, but we've been concentrating on teaching them two times seven, where are we? Do you know what I mean? These guys will be able to do the, you know, the basic skills that they need to, to survive with maths and English and all of those things, but they won't have the bigger picture. And you saw that in mainstream education where kids lost all of that ability in year five and six.

You should have been looking at sex education and things like that. And that was like, oh, we'll do that right at the end. We'll do that at the end.

Let's get stats out of the way and then we'll do it at the end. Oh no, we forgot to do it. Oh, let's just do a two day unit quickly about it.

It's not good enough. It really needs to be talking about society and managing money and getting out into the community and spending time because I don't know, you just, you just lost otherwise. I see that in my own kids where, you know, by this, by their age now, I was already going to the shop on my own and buying things and bringing it back and they wouldn't have a clue because it's not taught, is it? I suppose it wasn't taught back when we were, but you were given a wider range weren't you, you were allowed.

What time do I have to come in when it's dark? So you're doing this, you're in the mix, so you're building this new provision. Exactly, yeah, yeah. But yet you're leaving.

But what's, what's, what's the situation? So from that school, I did, I ended up then going to the main base because I wanted, I wanted to have a wider range of SEN. I was feeling like, and also the school, the way the school was heading a little bit didn't really fit what I was doing at that point. They didn't want that sort of provision.

They wanted to head down the route of pushing towards GCSEs and all the things that I thought weren't necessary suddenly came into fruition at that time. And I thought, you know what? It's better if I jump over to the main site and be there and see this. And funnily enough, they did come back and they did their own provision.

But anyway, so I jumped over to the main site and then again, I got my enthusiasm back hugely because I was working with a huge range of needs then. And it was just learning again. I think that's what opened me up again.

I was like, right, I've got to learn a lot more. How do I get these nonverbal students? How do I get these students that, you know, can't really even move to engage, you know? And again, got my enthusiasm back. I absolutely loved it.

But I think, again, it is just so hard to keep that enthusiasm going when other things keep happening, when staffing is, you know, skeletal, you know, you have no staff. So you plan these lovely things to do and then you can't do them, you know? You know, you're supposed to be going on a trip. You can't do it.

There's no one to drive the bus. Or you can't go out because you're, there's just you on your own in the classroom for two hours. And it just became gruelling, you know? And you see people around you hitting the wall harder than you would in any other profession, you know? You might feel a bit low for a bit or you might feel, but people just hit the wall.

People hit burnout, extreme burnout, which will, you know, hurt their lives for forever because they've been through this traumatic time. And I think at the same time as I was transitioning from the base that we'd set up, the school into this, I was starting selling records and I was starting to build this business. Selling online and I was pushing the social media side and that was growing.

And I really did begin to see a way of me at the weekends, instead of just sitting down and planning all the time, I was selling records or I was putting my time into doing that and slowly building this business. So it all happened kind of at the same time as I was being really enthusiastic about joining that new school and being there, the challenges were completely offset by the fact that, well, it doesn't matter because you've got this in your life as well. And I think that's the biggest key is to, for me, was to getting me through teaching was to have something else.

I was still in the band. I was still DJing. So I didn't do as much, but every now and again, we'd book a book, like a mini tour, or we'd book like a load of festivals during the summer.

And it just focused me to be like, okay, this is terrible. You are having a terrible time at school. You're in burnout.

You've hit your mental threshold. This is awful. However, you're going to do a gig next Saturday.

Just work towards that and that is going to help you get through basically. Brief interlude to dear listener. A couple of questions.



And we will both see you on the other side. So let's do that. What you've said there, I think is a really great reflection piece for our listeners.

Have you had a joy project that you've given up on? Is there something in your life that brought you joy, whether it was something you were able to monetize, whether it was a hobby, whether it was just something simple, like it's a non-negotiable. Every Sunday afternoon, I take my nan out, we go to Trebaran Gardens and you've let those things slide. Because I bet there are people listening who don't go to the gym anymore.

They've given up Sunday morning football. Slowly but surely, that 100% does not go 100% through entry. You have allowed it to become 100% by giving up and justifiably.

Well, I don't need to go every Sunday with my nan. I mean, at the end of the day, she sees our Navy sonnets. You've allowed your boundaries to move and move and move.

So I think that's really crucial what you said, because I'm going to speak on behalf of Sarah. When Sarah stepped outside of the classroom and eventually really moved securely into the world of Conexus, her world opened back up again. And I said to her once, has your social life changed since you became the Chief Ops Officer with us? How has it changed? And Sarah, how's your world changed now? What is it, the kind of things you do now that you are passionate about, you never really did when you were a teacher? I think critically, I think I said to you in response to that question, didn't I? My social life was with work people.

It was a coffee after school on a Friday afternoon with a lovely group of friends who I still love dearly. But it's still the same group of people. It was going out for the end of Christmas term due.

It was the summer term due. But beyond that, there was no social life. And I'm going to be cheeky.

I'm a really good photographer. And I used to, for a number of years, I kept a daily photography blog, one photo a day, blog about what had gone on daily. And I did that from 2008 to about 2017.

And then just there weren't enough hours in the day. And the photography went, and the painting went, all of the things that I loved doing, because there was just no time. And there probably would have been time if I'd gone, no, I am not working this evening.

But there was no option for no in my head. And I think now, where I'm at, the camera gets used. The, I'm already thinking that probably after tea tonight or before tea, I'm going to go over to the beach and go and go and get the sunset.

It's those things that I lost. And, oh, and Sarah, Sarah, your gigs, your Philharmonic Hall, your National Trust, grown up memberships, grown up memberships, and probably at least a gig a week or a concert of some sort. And, and actually the joy of that is, is the lost time.

And I do count it as lost time with my son when he was younger. It's been made up for now as an adult, because we go to gigs together. I go, I used, when he was in a band, I used to go to all of his band's gigs.

I used to go to rehearsals. I'd do photo shoots for. So I've got to make up those things.

But you're absolutely right. A school night now, I don't, it doesn't matter to me if I come back at half past 11, because I've been at a gig, because I've not got five hours of teaching the next day. And life's a lot better when you've got other stuff in it, not just work.

And I think, I think that was a great point from Grant. He held on to the other stuff that kept that, well, not only was it great for his mental health, but also then actually started to form a potential exit strategy. So, so walk us through this, because we've got Easter 25 coming up.

So you're selling records. Are you selling records online at this point? Are you, what's the situation when you started tinkering? What were the early days of your shop? So I was, I was always really passionate about collecting and DJing and things. And DJing was a revenue source because I got paid.

The band, meh, you didn't really get paid. You just had a nice, you got to go to festivals for free or you get to tour around and have fun, you know, but the DJing worked. So I started off on Instagram, which was just me sharing records, you know, a record a day kind of thing, which grew relatively big.

You know what I mean? It was, it was fine for me, but it gave me a little out, you know, I'll take a picture of record and we'll chat with the community within online and talk about records and be geeky. And that was nice. And then I remember going to help a neighbor out, buy a hi-fi.

And I joked, he bought the hi-fi and I jokingly said to the guy who was selling the hi-fi, you're not going to need those records anymore, are you? And he went, no, I'm not. No, do you want them? I was like, oh, I've got them all. I've got them all.

Oh, wait a minute. If I bought them from him, I could sell them. So I did.

I gave him an offer, you know, of thinking, well, if I sell them on, I, you know, gave him half the money. And yeah, he was happy with that. And I sold my first few Beatles records online quite quickly.

And then I started dipping into my own collection, thinking I really don't, And then selling those. And then I put an advert out on Facebook, you know, I buy large collections of records or I'm looking to further my own collection. And then it snowballed it snowballed quite quickly.

You know, I was buying really big collections and, you know, lots of, lots of records in bulk and then breaking them up, cleaning them up, selling them on on eBay and Discogs. You know, it was it went really, really quickly, you know, because I found another thing that my passion, I think, undiagnosed ADHD, but it definitely helped me definitely hyper focus on things. And yeah, that was my new, that was my new thing that I really enjoyed.

And it brought back that music. I think what you guys said about like having a reason not to do things like I would, I won't take that DJ book because I'll be tired or I'm not going to. We're only do six gigs a year.

You know what I mean? And things like that. I suddenly thought, no, no, no. Do do this.

Reengage with music because you love it. And I did. So yeah, slowly selling online.

And then I got to the point where my dining room was just absolutely full of records. I couldn't even move to package the records up. I was selling about 100 a week online and it was just it was impossible.

So next door to my wife's head hairdressers, a unit came up, which was just basically a storage unit. But you could open it as a shop if you wanted. And we just went for it.

We thought, you know, it's the same price of storage, really. And we'll just pack it for make it look quite nice and people can come on a Saturday. I'll go down there, sort records and I'll still sell online.

And on the Saturday we opened, it was just insane. And it was really it was so busy. We couldn't move in the shop.

It was, you know, the size of a postage stamp. The first shop is absolutely tiny. You fit 20 people in there and, you know, you are, you know, shoulder to shoulder.

But it it went quick, you know, it suddenly became viable, you know, and I think even before that, when we when we first went on holiday and it was paid for exclusively by online record sales and we just went, wow, this is incredible. We've done something, you know, because it's not just me. I'm I'm the one behind it doing it.

But obviously my family have, you know, relinquished time with me that instead of doing planning, I was selling records. You know, I'm hit at the shop doing all these things. So it's it's a family business because we're all making those sacrifices together.

But when we went on that holiday and just went, wow, all our hard work and late nights of doing records and things like that and, you know, has paid off and we're beginning to get some money in, you know. So, yeah, it felt it felt great to have that alongside the teaching. And what I'm going to what I'm going to talk to you about now is you are living lots of people's dreams, OK? Going into business, I think there's the majority of people, there is an idea within them or there's a little bit of entrepreneurialism or there's I could have been my own boss kind of conversations in the head.

But very often that's met with a limiting self-belief I know nothing about business. Now, when I've spoken to people like yourself or James Terry, who's a celebrant or Vicky Thurkettle, a chocolatier, people who've gone from the classroom to teaching one of the things they will tell you. Now, you might counteract me with this.

They didn't do a business degree. They didn't have business plans. They didn't do forecast sheets.

Grant is shaking his head because I know the answer to this. Grant, did you just muddle through and realise it wasn't going to be right? Fortune favours the brave. You don't need to be an expert on business to start a business.

Is that correct? Oh, 100 percent. I have learned so much along the way and fallen into a few pitfalls and, you know, research stuff and I'm still completely winging it. And that's, I think that comes from the classroom.

That comes from the classroom. I was nicknamed Mr Wing It because I'd walk in and my enthusiasm would often get me through if I didn't have a plan. Do you know what I mean? And it's the same here.

You know, you've got to you've got to have that confidence. And like, I think we've done things slowly and baby steps. You know, we opened on a Saturday.

Then I went down to four days and we opened on a Wednesday and Saturday. And then I thought we've got to, you know, I can't continue to that balance isn't working. And this, you know, so I went down to just two days a week.

And then I found that that two days at school was just so stressful because of it, because I couldn't do all the stuff I needed to do in school whilst concentrating on the business so much. So then that's why Easter it's over at my education. I will do other things in education, but at the moment, teaching is done.

Yeah, because I'm going to have I'm going to have a chat with you when this stops about some ideas I have for you. You are my friend. It's Leicester, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I thought so, yeah. We'll be staying on for the end to have a chat. I think.

If you sat there, so let's assume let's get into the head of one of our pit ponies, they might have a business idea that they want to be a dog groomer, something they really love, or they might even want to retrain and be a hairdresser. It doesn't matter where the pit pony struggles is they are trapped in fears and what ifs and a sense, a fear of the unknown out there. What advice would you give to somebody who was thinking of starting their own business and doing what you're doing? And I think I'm going to give you potentially the clue to where my head went, the seesaw out of the classroom into your business.

What advice would you be giving to a pit pony now going, I wish I could be like him? I think that the biggest, well, what I've done is slowly build it and slowly start doing those things and bring the joy back into your passion. If you're making something or you're a crafter or something like that, then just put your passion back into that and concentrate on that for a bit. Even if you put a week aside where you think, okay, or a couple of days aside a week, say, all right, I've got an easy day on a Wednesday.

Wednesday is PE. I teach PE in the afternoon and I can repeat some part of a lesson or you know what I mean? I can make my Wednesday easier. So Wednesday is less stressful.

So on Tuesday night, I'm going to dedicate that to my passion, which is knitting or putting some sort of business plan together or doing whatever you do. And then you've got some time that you've put aside for that, knowing that the next day isn't too bad. And I think, just slowly rolling it out.

And I never thought that the shop would come. I just always thought that I'd just be selling online alongside teaching. But I think it is just about just taking a leap at the end of the day.

At the end of the day, there will always be a need for teachers and there will always be a need for educators in some sense. So if this all went to pot tomorrow, I would. Yeah, you'd walk back in.

What have I lost? You know, I'd be gutted and I'd be really miserable to start with. But you know, even five years down the line, I might want to pick up teaching again. I'm already feeling that.

I mean, as soon as I handed my notice in and I went back in, I was working with some of the amazing young people I work with. I was like, oh, no, I'm really going to miss this interaction. I'm going to miss this.

And, you know, this little session that I do, I love that. Oh, man, how am I going to live without that? And, you know, when I'm making progress with a student, I'm like, oh, I've just got them to sign biscuit for the first time. Wow.

Oh, I'm not going to keep that going anymore. So, you know, you do start to have those feelings for it. I know that teaching will always be there for me or educating or some thought or in some form of interaction, connection with young people.

And I think if you listen back to what you said at first, everything you talk about, whichever stage of your journey you've been at, you've never really talked about finances. You've never really come into you've not been a guest who's talked about bottom line and that kind of thing. You've always talked about time being your precious commodity.

You spent your time being a DJ and in a band. And then you decided you want to spend, you wanted to spend your time with more impact in a grown up sense. You absolutely did not.

You didn't resent any of the time you were given when it was 100%. Then your kids came along and your time needed to be divided. And then your time was being pulled away again.

Everything you've talked about, the time you then spent compared in the shop and the time you spent being in the classroom. Time is your, time's your thing. And I think having listened to you, where you are spending your time is the most important thing in your world.

And now you're saying, I've got my shop in Easter. I can dedicate all of my time to my business and to my family. However, what I'm prepared to then say is, if I need to just smooth off a bit of that time to set foot back into the world of education, I will.

Yours has been about timetabling your life all the way through this. And I think that would be the message I'd want people to take a step back and reflect on what Grant Deck has said today. How am I using my time? Am I marking time? Am I marking books? Am I planning? I really think, even if it's subliminally or subconsciously, that is a key thing with you, Grant, about how you spend your time.

Am I wrong or am I right? No, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, at the end of the day, you're, you're, I don't know, I feel like you're always racing to squeeze as much of life out of life.

You know what I mean? So time is your, is your most precious commodity. There's no two ways about it. And it is hard because sometimes you, sometimes you don't make the most of it.

You know, sometimes you might just doom scroll on TikTok for two hours and feel absolutely terrible about it. But that's OK too. That's fine.

Everything's fine, isn't it? However, sometimes when you've got that little passion or that little spark that that can help motivate you to use your time correctly. And, you know, it's really hard. I've been quite lucky really in my education, you know, profession because I have worked in brilliant schools that have given me, you know, been really supportive and been great.

And I've never felt the threat of a support plan or I've never felt the threat of anyone bearing down on me or, you know, everything's always been supportive. And when I have, you know, I've had meltdowns and, you know, I've had burnouts and I've hit the wall. And, you know, I've been through, you know, bereavements and stuff.

It's been really challenging, but schools I've worked in other times have always been really supportive. And, you know, it kills me inside when I read things where people are put on support plans for nothing and stuff like that. So I feel so hard for those people because that is just wrong, you know, because you must be in fear that you can't use your time effectively.

But I feel, I feel very lucky that I have managed to, you know, if I haven't liked school or have something hasn't been going right, I have just moved school. And luckily, every time I've done that, I've fallen on my feet to some extent because people have been kind in that school aren't I? And supportive. So I felt like that advice that I gave to use your evening or something.

To be honest, what was in my head? I was like, what is the worst that could happen if I go in tomorrow and all my lessons go terribly? You know, the chance of anyone observing at that time then being put on a support plan is minimal. And actually, if it doesn't go to plan, I'll just try and make it to go to plan next time. And, you know, that is the wavering part of being in school, isn't it? It doesn't go to plan all the time.

And I think working in special needs show me it never actually goes to plan. If your starting point shifts from what if to even if, that's one of the best pieces of advice I give people. What if this goes wrong? Even if it goes wrong, so what? And so with that in mind, with that in mind, my friend, I taught you about sliding doors moments, didn't I? And I think that's so important because again, it feeds back into the concept and idea of time.

Now, you haven't actually left the classroom, as we know, but you have gone back to part time. You're doing things differently. Have you got a sliding doors moment that's happened to you at some point recently that probably wouldn't have happened had you not found yourself on this path? Um, oh, you had to explain the sliding doors thing to me last time because I've seen the, I have seen the film, but I can't remember what exactly it was.

What? So what it is, Grant, I'm so glad you prepared this for us, not. I had loads of things on my pad and it was like sliding doors, oh, sliding, oh. Sliding doors.

It was, it's a brilliant film in the 90s and John Hannah starred in the film, right, with Gwyneth Paltrow. So Gwyneth Paltrow's the main character and we follow her morning at work and she goes home and we see her going down a tube station, subway, into a subway and her coat gets caught on a handrail, which means she misses the train, the doors slide. Okay, I wasn't going to.

And then we see the next one where she doesn't hook her coat on and she gets on the train and then the film becomes a dual narrative of what her life would have been like had the doors not have slid in front of her. So, what's happened to you recently that you don't think would have happened had you not have made this decision you have done to exit the classroom? Well, all of this wouldn't have happened, I wouldn't if I hadn't have. You know, my happiness, I'm such, I'm so happier already, you know what I mean? I feel, you know, I feel I've got me back and hopefully my family feel like they've got me back as well.

But that, I think if I'd have carried on, if I hadn't have had this moment and I'd have carried on in education, I could feel, I could feel myself be becoming perhaps the negative person at school, you know, and I am sometimes that person because sometimes it is like, oh my goodness, three people aren't in today, that means I'm going to be in the classroom on my own with 11 students with significant needs. How is this possible? It always comes together and you muddle through, but, you know, being negative doesn't, it's not, it's not me, you know what I mean? I don't feel like myself, but that's probably where I would have, would have carried on. Yeah, I agree.

And plus you're not technically out of the classroom yet, so you can't have your sliding doors moment. We might come back to you for a special little capture of that. But Grant, anybody listening, anybody in Leicester, anybody who wants to find you and see your shot, first and foremost, where is it exactly? So we're in Burbage, which is near Hinkley in Leicestershire.

And yeah, Burbage is quite a small village with loads of pubs and we are just on the outer edge of Coventry Road in a tiny little, it's called the Fairway Centre. It's six independent businesses in a courtyard and we've got a lovely cafe opposite, we've got a wool shop, we've got hairdressers, we've got gym equipment, we've got, oh, an upholsterer has just moved in next door. Nice.

Making nice, lovely costumes. Old school. And sort of up.

What's your shop called, Grant? What's it called? My shop is Vinyl Shakedown Records. OK, and is that what you are on social media? Yeah, on Facebook, TikTok and Instagram. Yeah, yeah.

So you can see me wittering on about records and geeking out on there as well. Yeah, so yeah, that's where we are. It's, well, we've moved shop now.

We were in the tiny, tiny shop and now we're in a much larger, spacious, lovely shop. So yeah, yeah, track us down. Who knows? One day, one day you might find the doorbell ringing and it's me and Sarah.

I'll be looking for Wham. I'll be looking for old Wham. And yeah, well, I'll be bored.

I'll probably be in the upholsterer shop. And Sarah, what will you be going in there deep diving for? What would you be looking for? Some weird Depeche Mode classics, a bit of Queens of the Stone Age. Anything that's a bit, like, deep cuts of 80s, 90s bands.

Yeah, nice, nice. Lovely, yeah, yeah, yeah. Plenty of that.

Lovely, yeah, yeah, yeah. Plenty of that. Yeah.

Have you got any Wet, Wet, Wet? You need a record player. I think you'll find Wet, Wet, Wet stuck in the 50p section. Sorry.

Listen, listen here. I've seen Marty Pellow in the 80s, 90s, noughties. I saw him last March, right? He's aged like a fine wine.

Oh, he looks beautiful, yeah. If you haven't got Wet, Wet, Wet popped in, sold out, how can you call yourself a record shop? I'll leave you with that to ponder. Right, Grant, it's been an absolute... It's been an absolute belter of an episode.

Your energy. Thank God it was an episode where that energy didn't come at the end when you talked about your record store. Thank God that energy was right the way through and you've not lost sight of who you are.

I think any school will always have been blessed to have you and I'm sure there are multiple kids along the way who will remember you with such gratitude and kindness because I suspect you saw them, you heard them and you helped them in a way you'll never really thoroughly know how. So, Grant. We bless you, thank you.

On behalf of myself and Sarah and all of our listeners, an absolute joy for this episode today. Thank you. Thank you very much for having me.

I've absolutely loved it. Thank you ever so much. Wow, pal.

What a guy. Shot of caffeine on a Sunday afternoon. 100%, I mean... I don't know how our conversation would have gone or the man we would have met had he not have been so insightful with regards to managing his own mental health, his own time, his own priorities.

Because speaking to him another three to four years down the line, I don't know who we would have met. And there's your slide indoors moment. Yeah.

That's your slide indoors moment, isn't it? That really landed for me about how he'd built something and was seesawing out. That really landed. And I think that's the stumbling block, isn't it, for people in the group that they resign and then they don't know what they're going to do because there hasn't been something building up to it along the way.

And I think I go back to when I exited and I know we talked about it. Doing the photography for me over the kind of 15 of the 25 years that I was teaching, I had a sideline. So actually that was part of, and I've talked about that in at least one of the podcasts about the conversation that my brother had had with me.

Do that. Yeah. Do that.

It'll at least cover your baseline for a period of time while you figure it out. So, yeah. I think it's a good business piece of advice as well.

You're never going to launch anything ready and complete and perfect. And if you are going into the world of multiple income streams, the clue is in the title. There are multiple income streams you can be pursuing.

And I think because teachers have been brought up in the world of planning and accuracy and recording and measuring progress, sometimes you've just got to rip the sticking plaster off and explore. And in builds from there, we've come across so many tutors who've come on board with us that connects us and franchisees that connects us. You've got to the point of scale and it's never perfect.

A business opportunity evolves and you move with it. Don't not launch because your website's not quite right or I haven't got a business plan that feels... Sometimes you've just got to investigate. And one of the things he said to me that I thought was so interesting in his business, he bought a load of records.

He's got to love of it. And he just started pushing them out there to see if anybody was interested. His online went crazy.

He knew there was a desire. He opened a small shop. It was packed.

It was that kind of, there's clearly a need for what I'm offering here because people are willing to part with money. So the rest will follow behind from opening one day a week to two days a week to three days a week. He just kept testing the water, stress testing different things.

There's nothing about that guy that tells me he's got a business plan. But there's everything about him that says you will have an amazing business. Because if I was living in Leicester, I suspect he'd be one of those businesses where the business name was secondary to, oh mum, can we go Grant's record shop? He is the business.

His passion is the business. And it's like me and you go to the hairdressers and it's hair store. It isn't, it's Jackie's.

Where are you this afternoon? I'm at Jackie's. If you've got somebody who's so passionate about what they're doing, they're not necessarily the complete business person. And that came through.

Also, I loved the fact he got out quick enough not to have shut the door on everything he loved. He knows he will put his foot back in education. And a lot on his terms.

On his terms. And a lot of people wait too long. He said, if it doesn't work out with the record shop, I'll go back in.

And life is this evolving epoch of a journey. It's never right. We're done.

This is it forever. Things change over time. And I just think listening to him he's managed to monetize a joy project before he even left teaching.

Because he said him and his wife and kids went away on holiday with the earnings from the online. Yeah. It can be done.

It can be done. And for me, moving away from Grant specifically, it is about that multiple income streams can be really fruitful. You and I know that there's people in our worlds that are almost serial entrepreneurs.

Let's use that phrase. Who have got something going on here and people can't see me waving my hands. But multiple things going on that actually are so far removed.

They're all different. And they peak and trough at different times. So that there is always some consistency along the way.

And I don't know why it's made me think of her. I have a very lovely friend that I worked with for a very long time. And she makes the most glorious cakes.

The most glorious cakes. And when she exited, she started doing them. Selling them to friends and family.

She's at Dunelm with a cake stall once a month. She's at different school fairs. She's this, that and the other.

And that's what does for her. And she loves it. Part of it is the one certainty you have financially as a teacher is that no matter how many hours you put in.

Add a couple of sick days, whatever. You are going to get a set amount on the 15th or the 30th of the month. It's that fixed salary.

It's the fixed pension contribution. It's the known. And for many people, that is the false god that keeps them in what they feel is a secure position.

But the price that that security is paying in terms of their mental health nowhere near offsets the peace of mind of knowing you can balance your books at the end of the month. And if we take this opportunity to go back to the basic raw principle of the original Pit Pony was strip down your bottom line and actually in a column work out how much you're spending each month on stuff you are either buying to self-soothe because you're unhappy. You are spending to get you to your job in terms of petrol, childcare, clothing, meal deals on the way to work.

Actually go as a human being what money do I need to bring in to live? Not what it costs me to go to work. Not what it costs me to compensate for the fact I'm burnt out so it's three holidays a year. Really get right back to basics and build from there because we talk about the difference between price and cost and value.

And all of our Pit Ponies who've come out who have taken pay cuts and pay drops and they've got less money coming in wouldn't swap it for the world. Correct. For the absolute world.

So you know what? If you've got a project or something that you're thinking of doing and you only have to go on our Flog It Friday Sarah to see how many wannabe entrepreneurs there are out there such talented, talented people. Yeah and actually let's take out the wannabe. They are entrepreneurs.

Yeah they are entrepreneurs. They just don't believe that they are. Correct.

Correct. So I thought it was a great episode. I loved moving away from his business world back into who he was in education.

The minute he started getting pigeonholed put into boxes told to do all of these things. I mean he still stood his ground and I should imagine the impact he had everywhere was amazing. But when he first landed in education when he talked about the dinner ladies and the burning tyres that that guy is so talented and he's got such a gift and I don't believe I don't believe we've seen the last of him in education.

I really don't because I don't think he's going to be able to help himself and if he can merge the two worlds you know more power to his elbow I just I just love that episode because it left me with no real bitterness or sadness to be honest because I don't think he's a loss to teaching because I think he'll go back in. I think his shop will probably end up a community hub because he can't help himself. I think his two kids probably realise they've got a great dad and a great mum and the time he's spending on the earth I think he's better off for it with Grant Decker being on it.

I really do. I think what a great we're going to go and see him aren't we? Oh yeah oh yeah I'm going to take a small fortune in his shop. I'm going to take my own copy of Wet Wet Wet Popped and Sold Out call yourself a record owner.

Have you even got that on vinyl? Yes I have got it on everything I've got it on vinyl I've got it on a cassette I've got it on CD it's on my favourites on Spotify right okay Diard, Diard Marty fan um honestly three rows down at the co-op a couple of months ago watching him loved it loved it I do think it was it was nice to have somebody who was a pit pony but not a broken pit pony because I think there's some balance in that that not everybody who comes out of teaching is broken that they come out because it's the right time for them to come out because either they can see we've had that before haven't we you can see something coming over the hill or but whatever it is he honestly has left me feeling really joyful not not just because he's got a record shop and he's doing something that that I would love to do but when he was talking about the children that he worked with and we started the episode off talking about impact you listeners don't I hope it comes across in terms of the listening but seeing him light up talking about the work that he did with hard to reach kids with so many challenges where I've come from that just absolutely um yeah that filled me with joy great gang absolute great gang so sending much love to you all wherever you're listening from we will raise a teacup to you when we actually make our way down to Leicester to Grant's shop but all that remains to be said from me and Sarah is what another fantastic episode and tune in for the next one which I'm sure will be equally as glorious so much love Sarah and I'll see you on the other side Tra Thank you so much for staying with us throughout another great episode and on behalf of myself Sarah Dunwood and all at the production team we appreciate your