Breaking Down Our Creative Process and How We Push Projects Forward

In this episode, co-hosts Douglas Duvall of Motif Media and Eric Wing of Darby Digital dive into the intricate world of creative processes across web development, marketing, and video production. They explore the importance of pre-production, the role of experience, the challenges of AI integration, and personal strategies for maintaining creativity and inspiration.

Web Development Process Overview (0:00)
Comparing Web Development to Video Production (4:48)
Imposter Syndrome and the Value of Experience (11:57)
The Role of AI in Creative Processes (15:01)
Marketing Strategies and Lead Funnels (39:52)
Inspirational Techniques for Creative Work (40:17)
Final Thoughts and Future Plans (45:56)

📌 Topics Covered: web development process, video production techniques, AI in creative industries, marketing strategies, lead funnels, creative inspiration, imposter syndrome, trade show insights, search behavior trends, workflow rituals

📢 Key Takeaways: Pre-production planning, invisible creative work, experience matters, AI limitations, systematic approach, changing perspectives, ritual importance, Gen Z search trends, marketing automation, creative problem-solving
Keywords: creativity, AI, web development, marketing, video production, inspiration, workflow, technology, strategy, innovation

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🔗 Connect with Us:

Douglas Duvall

motifmedia.com for high-end video production.

Eric Wing

withdarby.com for digital marketing and web development services.

Transcript

0:00

Music. Welcome to another episode of creative context. Today we're going to jump into the creative process. You know, we've talked a lot about the client side of things, the money side of things, and now we're just going to kind of dive into getting the work done that's going to look different for every creative person. And graphic design, video web design, it's all very kind of has its own ebbs and flows, but I think it is something people are curious about. So we're just going to kind of jump into our own personal processes and give you a look kind of behind the scenes. So you're going to speak to on two fronts, Eric, but like, what is your what is your kind of process look like for web development, and then on the marketing side, yeah, the web development, the process is a lot more ironed out, a little more straightforward, because of the nature we're creating. We're creating a product rather than generating a result, like a lead or whatever, right? So on the web dev side, interesting, there is a crossover between the two services and that we have to understand the audience. We have to understand the purpose of the website, what, what is considered a successful website, when we're done like we have to establish all of that stuff, which is a crossover to marketing. You have to understand your audience. And you know, how do you want to position your offer to them and whatnot. But, you know, on the web dev side, it took, it took a number of years to iron it out to the point that we're at now, but it almost runs itself because we've got some really strong systems in place, but it really once we are clear on what the objective is and who, who we're designing for. Then we go directly into a wire framing. You know, it's like the blueprint for for us to give to the builder, but it's the wireframe for us to give to the designer. I stay, I still stay plugged in at that point of the project, because I find it to be critical. It's really, it's really ongoing consulting with some visual aids. What it comes down to, rather than playing the telephone game internally, where, like, I speak with the client, and then I relay that information to someone doing the wireframe, I just stay involved and do it. And that process can sometimes take the longest, or compete, at least with the development phase, because you're literally, you're solving all of the questions, what goes where? Why does it go there? You know? Why wouldn't we want to have this in this spot? All we always like to say when we go into design, all the decisions have been made, and what, what we like about that is, once all those decisions are made, we can even peel back the number of stakeholders on the client side, right? So maybe for the wire framing stage, because we're making all the major decisions, maybe there's, there's two points of contact or stakeholders that are involved. Maybe it's the the owner or the CEO plus their marketing person, for example, once the once we move into design, we can really peel away the owner or the CEO and work just directly with the marketing manager, because, just because. And so we get into design, and then we go into development. Those are the three major steps within development. There's, there's some drop down tiers when it comes to security, web accessibility, standards, website hosting, you know, there's, there's things like that, but, but all in all, for standard website. We generally get them done under two months and from start to finish, and then we move if, if applicable, we move directly into the marketing. So, you know, same with like web web apps, mobile apps and and, and web apps, same idea, although they tend to last a little hunger, we have one web application we're building that we are now in our fourth year so, and it's not because we're going slow, it's just because it's a big it's a big project and so, but yeah, we get feedback from The clients about how organized and how secure they feel about that process, because we're just leading them along. We never expect for the client to have all the answers or even to know what questions to ask, and that's why we do the wireframe, if it flushes all that stuff out. But I see, I see the web dev side, maybe. Comparable to video production, as I'm talking or any, any dots connecting with with your process? Yeah, I mean, for scripted work, for sure. I actually just saw a clip of what's his name Steve Jobs, talking about the process of making Toy Story in the early days of Pixar, where they just use storyboards, like they storyboarded everything, to the point where the editing process is essentially done before they started animating. Wow, and that's, that's the idea of pre production. Yeah, you know, there's, there's always been stories about Alfred Hitchcock would fall asleep on set because the script and everything was so detailed in the pre production that production was just a formality for him, right? Gotcha. I mean, that's a story. Who knows that that's true, but that's the idea for scripted for sure. You want to get as much of that done ahead of time before the camera starts rolling. Because when the camera starts rolling, effectively, money is being spent or more expensive than pre production. Most of what we do is non scripted. So to combat that, meaning, like a lot of what we're doing is kind of documentary style, where someone's walking through a construction project, talking about different details and explaining things, and then a lot of the decisions are made kind of in the editing process, where a raw interview walk through might be 60 minutes long and the edited version will be 25 minutes Yep, or 20 minutes Yep. So yes. To your point, scripted work, ideally, there's not a lot of most of the most of the decisions are made, and anything that kind of comes up on set or on location is sort of a an external thing that's happened that causes something to be changed in the field, yeah, where most of the decisions were made in pre production, but most of what we do is kind of documentary style. So we are making the creative decisions sort of in post production, but we do follow pre production, production, post production for all projects Gotcha. Where, currently it's a little lighter in the pre production side, if it's non scripted, and the bulk of the work will take place in post production, where ideally, you know, bulk of the work takes place in pre production. Production sort of a formality, and post production is very straightforward, perfect world, and even on Hollywood productions, that's usually not the case. There's always something right, because, you know, if it can go wrong, it will go wrong on set. Sometimes we all like the illusion of control, but it's interesting. Yeah, same thing like for your for those projects where you can do most of the work in pre production, that's essentially what I was talking about with the wireframe we're doing all the work in pre production. Basically the designer just takes that framework and makes it look like, makes it look good, and then the developer is basically just connecting the dots, right? You know, there's no, there's no thinking involved on our side. Anyway, once you get past that one and there is, and don't get me wrong, like we have a whole, we did a whole talk a few weeks back about, you know, change requests and scope creep and all this stuff is still happens, but, but for the, for the bulk of it, if we can take care of it in the, in the pre production, pre pre designed phase, yeah, it makes a lot of sense. But, but, yeah, we still have to free. You know, what's the expression? Free, Free ball. It Free ball, it sometimes, which is fun, you know, to be spontaneous and and just it present with with the with the obstacle. I still, I still like that, but, but, yeah, going back to like whatever, whatever we can control, or feel like we're controlling, I think does help to have confidence in the project, right? And it depends, you know, this, not so much to your what you're talking about, but from the video side, it really depends on the the person, the personality or the brand, right? If you're looking for that sort of super curated, like very fine, finely defined brand image, then, yeah, you're it's going to be heavily scripted and very well defined, right? The the guidelines are very tight. Like you said, it's almost like there's, there's no thinking being done. It's just connecting. Yeah, yep. Where, if it's more like of a free, loose kind of, you know, let's, let's, you know, shoot from the hip kind of thing, and that's what your brand is, then that's how it's done, and that's how it comes out, yeah? And sometimes you can get the best stuff that way, right? But you don't necessarily know what you have until you've invested a lot of time in the post production side. Yeah. And do you ever get to the point where you're in post production and you're like, we didn't even get that. We didn't get that whole thing that we we set out to to get. What does that ever happen where, oh, yeah, I mean it for sure. You know, there's, there would be times like, like, I said, Some say it's a raw interview that's an hour, and in the beginning they said, Oh, later on, we'll talk about this. And then they never go on to talk about this. Yeah, that's the power of editing. I'll just cut out. Or they said, we'll talk about this later. That's gone. You never know. You never knew they were going to talk about that thing or whatever? Yeah, good point for sure. There's a lot of there's a lot of editing taking place, you know, and, yeah, some storylines get left behind, or, you know, neglected, or didn't finish the way we wanted, or there's a million different things, but at the end of the day, nobody else knows that, right, right? And as long as it generally makes sense and there's coherence, that's it really doesn't matter, and it's like, we'll get it next time you're okay. Paul's trying to be stealthily over here. There's a bunch of cables in his way, to be fair, but yeah, so a lot of my creative process takes place in production and post production. That's kind of where my skill sets I've kind of taken on more of a director role. I'm still not completely comfortable calling myself a director. I feel like I just don't feel worthy of the title. I don't know it's a personal it's a me problem. I I feel like there's, there's needs to be more of initiation than just one day start calling yourself a director. But I am doing more director type things on site where it's like, oh, let's start that over and say it this way, or Yeah, and I need to be better about it. It's sort of a new, new cap for me to wear. But definitely in the post production is where my sort of creativity is most prominent. Yeah, I've just gotten very good at crafting something out of nothing. Yeah, in and that's, well, first of all, going back to the basically, what you're talking about is imposter syndrome, which is a very real thing, right? And we should probably have a whole talk about that. That could be a whole topic, but, but I'd like to go just quickly dive a little bit, because I remember in some of our conversations off camera, some of our conversations on camera, where I think it was our pricing, the pricing episode where he had mentioned that the perception really that. But the perception seems to be out there that what people are paying for is your time. They're shooting, creating the content, yeah, but the reality, it just surfaced again, just now. The reality really goes towards the fact that it's the post production, or even in this case, sometimes the pre production that where all of the hours are spent. Is there any anything additional there you want to peel the lid back on? Yeah. I mean, you're paying for my experience having done this on when my ad, when I worked at the small ad agency back in the day, right out of college, that was, that was such a great training ground for me, because I was handed, I can think of many instances where I was handed a pile of junk and I was asked to make this into something that's going to be played in front of the entire company and The board of directors and whatever, whatever. Yeah, the internal marketing department dropped the ball, and now they've come to us to fix it. And I was putting very tough situations with very tight deadlines very early on in my career, and I sort of developed the ability to make something out of nothing, so where I can't get into the details of how I do that, unless you literally sat over my shoulder for, you know, 10 or 12 hours, yeah, but like, meaning you're paying for my experience, yep, to fix the problem, yeah? And those 10 or 12 hours, those are the invisible hours, right? Yeah, I've had conversations. With photographers, I deal with the same thing. It's like people forget that there's a ton of editing that happens to those photos before they're released to the client, right? It's the same, same idea, but I guess to a certain degree, I deal with that on the marketing side, right? Like people can see the results, but sometimes the results take some time, so they're kind of curious, like, what are you doing over there? You know, what do we oh, you've invoiced us a couple of times now, and, you know, we're not quite to our goal. Are you guys doing anything? And I think it's, it's human nature to be skeptical about the things that you can't see, right? Yeah, it is definitely one of those things. And I think I had a meeting yesterday with someone who, she's starting up a YouTube and, you know, she's very, she's a very talented builder, General Contractor, but she's like, I, I put on the director's cap and sat down at the computer to edit this thing. And it's, she's like, I want nothing to do with it. Yeah, I want absolutely nothing to do with it. And like, she understands it, like she's come, like, setting up the meeting with me and discuss just hold off here, go honking there. So she's kind of come to me understanding, like, I know what you do and I I appreciate what you do, because I've tried to do it and I hate it, yeah, but a lot of people don't come from that stance, like they just think, oh, doesn't ai do that now. Oh yeah, that's the new uncle. I've tried all those auto edits. And there's, like, this auto edit thing. It's supposed to automatically edit podcasts. And there's a bunch of different there's clip creator things, and they all work to an extent, but they're not great. And, I mean, it's only probably a matter of time, but there's, there's still not they're still not there. Yeah, in my opinion, if they work, believe me, I would use them and gladly move my efforts to something, you know, where it benefit more. But you know, they're just not there. So it's experience. And, you know, it's another topic we keep circling back to, is like having respect right for what we do and an understanding of what we do. And there's definitely, I think, a lack of understanding and respect on the on the invisible art. I mean, editing is called the invisible art. Because if it's good editing, you don't even notice it, yeah, usually, unless you're intentionally drawing attention to something. But yeah, good editing, you don't even notice it. Yeah? So it's invisible, yeah? It just gets out of the way of the story, right? Because you're if it's, yeah, I totally get that. And the even if, even if the AI was able to get it to a certain point, you still have to inform the AI. The AI is dumb, it's smart. It's the smartest thing that we've ever come across as humans. However it is, it needs to be informed about the objective, right? So there's still a director in the seat, but, you know, we're facing that on my side too, specifically on the marketing. And there are like ais that are starting to spin out these websites that look like PowerPoint presentations, right? It's the same thing. They're not quite there yet, just a matter of time, but there's still a human informing the AI on what the objective is, right? Like when I mentioned, well, everything that we do prior to a wireframe that still has to happen, right? You still want the to serve a particular purpose. So, yeah, the invisible art. I like it. I like it. Well, the, just like you said, I noticed, actually, I saw a commercial for, I think it's GoDaddy has a new AI website builder or something, yeah. It's like, arrow or something, yeah, arrow, yeah. I noticed. Who is it? David croggs, or the Yeah, no, yeah, the guy in White Lotus the new season, and he was in the shield. He's been in a bunch of anyway. He was in the commercial. Oh, he's in the commercial, yeah, the homepage of their website right now, yeah. So, like the commercial is just like him typing in what he needs, and it like builds the website, where from video perspective, it's like, okay, you can give it an already edited video, and an AI can make you clips from it, sure, yeah, if you want to, I'll give AI that one. It can. It can handle that pretty effectively. But doing what I do, taking a raw interview, cutting it down, I. Letting B roll over it that corresponds to what people are talking about. Or, you know, sometimes you don't always have something that corresponds to what the person's talking about, so you have to find something that sort of alludes to it, or is in reference to or you don't always have an apples to apples, right? So the AI is nowhere near that, right? There's nowhere, there's nowhere near feeding that into an AI and it just cutting it out and exporting you it all done like, yeah, that side of things is distant future. Yeah, I'm sure we'll get there, but you need to piece together multiple AIS, and at that point you're better off just, just doing it directly by the Yeah, you're better off just editing it right. But yeah, yeah, somehow we keep circling back to AI. Yeah. The whole world, the whole world keeps circling back to AI. Next week, I'm giving a talk. They actually you know about it because you're filming it, filming in AI, giving a talk to a group of professional organizers about AI, which at first I was like, how am I going to bridge this gap? But actually, there's some pretty cool stuff out there that I'm going to be able to to bring into that conversation. But so anyway, but yeah, so on the marketing side, on, on, on my front. So I talked about the web dev on the marketing side, you know, we start out the process depending on what it is, let's say it's speaking of AI right now, where we're retooling a lot of our AI strategies that we have with clients to accommodate the changes that either Google has put into place or that AI is influencing in one way or another. And so that process is a little bit more fragmented, but let's say advertising somebody that wants to, you know, this morning, I gave a talk about lead funnels that are still very much useful, and they still work, you know, so a project like that, once we, once we have identified who the audience is, who's the customer avatar, that we're going to be building the funnel around, there's really a systematic approach for creating, creating that infrastructure to settle, to accommodate the goal, right? So I think a lot of people listening or in you as well, have heard of marketing funnels, essentially, you know, the objective is to make make your avatar aware of your offer, and then you work them progressively. You know, you get their interest, and then you close the sale. There's really more than three steps, but for the sake of simplicity, that's kind of where we're at. But, you know, but what we're creating is really a template. You you create a fantastic landing page that speaks to that avatar. You're you're creating ads, whether it's social or search, to that also speaks to that avatar. Flows through to the landing page, and then the offer has to be dynamite. You can't you can't have lackluster offers anymore, because that's where people would argue with me about marketing funnels being, you know, dated or out of out of touch, is because the thought isn't going there has to be an elevated level of thought that comes from experience to create offers that are that are irresistible, right? And These offers are pulling people into the CRM, the marketing automation tool I was, I specifically was using HubSpot as the example this at today's talk, and but that's just half of the story, because if you're selling a ticket, you're, you're, let's say you're selling something in the average ticket value is $5,000 it's unlikely that somebody is going to go from awareness to sale within a week, right? It's not likely, because awareness really means that person has been doing research, and the thing that you offered to them contributed to their research phase. And they're likely looking at other companies, other offers. And so the the automation part of marketing automation is building out a whole bunch of sequences of emails, essentially, and touch points, so you can put text message in there. Now you can even deploy direct mail as a sequence. So you could have a postcard be one of your sequences if you wanted to. But, but, yeah, so all of that is very systematic, and if done correctly. And the big point I made this morning was, you know, in order to find success with lead funnels, there has to be the correct partner. And that's where the brains and experience, in the the in the in, I don't know the, I don't want to say the genius of it, but really, the the intellect comes in with choosing the correct partner. Because anyone can do the science of it and create these and create and set up these tools, the art of it is sort of the soul of the campaign in that dictates how well it's going to do. So yeah, it's the right partner. It's it's a having clarity around budget, like, how much can you spend? We have a whole episode talking about businesses that don't have allocate, like budget allocation for the services that we offer, but they reach out wanting a quote, right? So it's like, so having clarity around your budget is important. And then the last bit is patience. We the example that I used at the talk this morning. We had generated over $300,000 for a bicycle touring company, but that that almost didn't see through to fruition, because the business owner and the management team, they tried to, they tried to fire us multiple times because they wanted instant results, and it took us six months to generate 300,000 ended up being a 200% ROI on their spend. So they they they checked all those boxes. They were willing to do it, and they hired the right partner. They were willing to allocate budget, and they knew what they could afford. And then with our, with our, with my insistence, they stayed patient, right? So there's these, are all of the you had mentioned. The, the, what was it? The, the, the invisible art, right? That is very much an invisible art I can there. There's probably that I know of. There's three other agencies that could, if I had a stronger arm, I could throw a rock to right now, that are around around me right now. But are they the right partner for generating a marketing campaign? Who knows? Right? But the the younger, the the marketer, the less likely they're going to be able to have a lot of these, these invisible skill sets that make something successful. And going back to the theme of today's talk, the the you know the importance of having a system to that is replicable. That's the big thing on the marketing. On the marketing side, sure, we generate $300,000 for that company. They spent a ton of money too. They spent over $100,000 buying ads, our management fee, paying commissions to their sales team. Like it was a big undertaking, but they were able to to produce that result. We can scale that thing down, do all the same things on but smaller budget, smaller sales goal, you know, smaller sales team, or maybe no sales team at all. And so the power is in the in the sort of the strategy of the campaign, and then weighing that against the systems, right, like the behind the scenes, stuff that that we're trying to communicate today, and even trying to communicate about it directly is difficult. I feel like I do want someone kind of like recording my day. You know that might be that, actually, that might be an interesting video right there. Well, depends on the day. Maybe I just sit here and I stare at my computer. I'm just like, I don't know for sure. I actually, I've gotten I don't know. Do you ever use loom? Do you know what loom is? Yeah. So I've, over the last year, I guess I've used it a lot to just record processes of, like, you know, editing a podcast or whatever. So like, in the event someone new, kind of comes to the table to edit something, I send them that and like, this is the, this is the holy grail of editing this show and editing this like, you know, you mean, yep, which I've found it to be. I probably don't do it as much as I should, but it's a huge, it's a huge like, time saver, because, okay, it takes me an hour or hour and a half to do something like, record it, but it's that residual time, like, yeah, it's just like, reference the video. It's all there. Yep, it's all there. That's beautiful. But yeah, there's a lot of, there's a lot of parallels between the the marketing and then, like, the podcast side of things, on my side, because it is once the show's sort of up and running and the decisions are made, it's like it's very much just getting it out every week, getting it out every week, and it's kind of just running through that same process every week. So there's definitely some overlap there as well. Yeah, there's not, there's not as much. Creative editing happening in a podcast where it's just kind of like, it's kind of the whatever the topic is that week, the clips are based around that, and that's just, yeah, on to the next week. Yep, yeah, it's that, that. That's the grind, and that's the part when I'm when I'm consulting with businesses, I I'll make the recommendation or just offer up for consideration that the the the grind aspect of it, where the where the intellect is not, not firing, so so much, right? It's more about doing the tasks without, without having a lot of thought, that's the point of delegation, or, in the case that I've been making for businesses, is to bring AI in. I'm not saying that AI would do those, those things with the podcast that you just mentioned, but repetitive, non, non strategic tasks, that's that's the an opportunity to really regain time in the day and have be putting, putting those brain cells towards something that can be moving something else along, right? For sure, so, but not to, not to discount the importance of it. It's just, I guess, I guess in my mind, I've been, I've been forming a division between, like, the intellectual work and just the grind work, right? And I see that on both web dev marketing services, even building some AI automations. It, there's a lot of intellect upfront, and then it's sort of like the flow of it. You can bring other people in or whatever. Yeah, so we've, we've talked about the technical side of things, and as we kind of come to the end, like, let's kind of talk about the the sort of inspirational, I guess, side of things, like when you have a a task in front of you, and you know, you're a professional, you're going to meet your deadline and all that. Like, what do you sort of tap into to keep the Create? We've talked about, the burnout side of things, so we'll put that in a bucket over there. But like, when things are going good, and like, you just gotta keep the juices flowing, is there something you sort of tap into that helps you keep rolling? Yeah, good question. I think it depends on the day. It also depends on the task and how taxing it is, but, but generally. So for example, tomorrow we have a we have a performance call, meaning like, we're going to meet with a client and we're going to talk about the our impact, right? We launched a new website for them relatively recently, and has impacted our like the rankings for that website. So the inspiration I'm finding to prepare for that meeting, it actually started last week. I kind of like nibble on it mentally when I can, you know. So that's one example. And I've already, I've already got a strategy in place. I just need to implement it and and bring, bring the team member that that's on the call with me in and sort of and see it through. But if I'm sitting here and I need to produce a wireframe, you know, wireframes is a blank slate. It's just a it's almost like a document with a blinking cursor. And I have a list of features that I've taken notes, my notes from the kickoff call and all of like the, you know, the sales process. And I have to, I have to take all of these words and translate them into a visual and, like, visually communicate back. That's where I sometimes need to take a walk, right? I need to look at other similar websites or projects not to get too woo here, but I'll sometimes meditate on it. I'll just sit quietly and just like focus specifically on the goal and generally. This might sound unbelievable, but I've been doing it for a long time, and I usually open my eyes with an idea. I open my eyes with a spark of inspiration. Ah, okay, I know how I'm gonna do this. That may not be for everyone, but yeah, sometimes it's a matter of like, an old mentor of mine said, like, whenever you're faced with a problem you don't know how to solve, write it down on a piece of paper, put it on the table in front of you, look at it, okay, then sit at a different position at that table and look at it from that from that side of the room, and wake your way around the table looking at this piece of paper with the problem on it, just the change in. Perspective will sometimes give you that spark of idea that, like, Ah, okay, I know what to do, or at least gives you some momentum in a direction that you'll course correct over time. So those are all very personal, inspirational things that I do. It may or may not work for other people, but yeah, these are things I've honed over 17 years at this point. So do you any of those? Ring true for you? Do you do any of those things? Yeah, walk. Walks. A big one. I if I'm what I call kind of in editing mode. Like, I try to keep my day, like, super regimented, and like, kind of not reg I guess regiment might be the wrong word, ritual might be a better word. Like, if I'm sort of entering Edit Mode, I'm going to wake up at a certain time and, like, have a coffee at a certain time, get to the office for a certain time my I try, I like, I'll put my phone in, like, a different room, or, like, across the room, because that really breaks my sort of concentration if An email comes in or something. And then, you know, like, it, you know, I get into the office kind of early, so I take, like, an early lunch that I walk to go get lunch at, like, 1045 or something, yeah. And I just kind of keeping, like, and trying to leave at a certain time, and, like, knowing, like, Hey, I'm leaving at this time, like, no matter what you know, yeah, and that sort of helps me stay focused, trying to get to the task I know music, like, if I listened to a podcast on the drive into work, it definitely changes, like, my mindset, like a little bit, like, if I'm gonna be in a lot of meetings during the day, I find listening to a podcast to help me. In that sense, if I'm going to be editing, I only listen to music, interesting or nothing, nothing or music, podcasts or audiobooks. Just like, get me out of like, the mindset. So I just, I try to be dialed in as best I can. Yeah, and obviously, like, sometimes you wake up 10 minutes late or whatever, like something gets thrown through the it screws up the ritual a little bit. But yeah, and when I'm sort of having, I've sort of run into a problem I can't quite crack, and it's distracting me, or, you know, I can't, I can't meet it head on to your point of, like, getting up and moving around the table. Actually, his advice from you is, like, kind of getting up and maybe taking my laptop and working somewhere else. You know, when it's nice out, depending on the temperature, I guess, yep, it's too hot or too cold. It doesn't make sense to be outside, but outside or cafe or, you know, I haven't been to the library in a long time, but there is one pretty close to my house. That's what I used to do in college. You know, if the dorm room was wasn't cutting it, go to the library. If the library wasn't cutting it, you know, go over here. Yeah, I kind of thought of that after you told me that it's like I used, I used to do that. Yeah, you're also in a little more control of environment in college, but that definitely helps change the scenery. Huge. That's a big one. And walks, walks definitely like, not crazy long for me. It's like, a mile. Yep, it's probably enough where you just you're going and helping me, like, if I'm going to a destination and coming back where it's like, I know in this amount of time, right? It's not like this undefined sort of thing, which this, this might get a little woo, woo. I feel like that helps me, in a sense, because video is one of the only mediums that's control. Video and Music are the only mediums controlled by time and pace where you know a photograph, a photograph or a painting, you can look at indefinitely, yeah, where music and film sort of move in time. Yeah, right. So having defined points, I think I don't know. Maybe there's a correlation there, or it's just much. I'll blank that out. I like it. I like it, because I read something recently that without without structure, which is we are talking about here as ritual. Without that, the mind is too scattered. You have to, you have to find ways to bring the mind into focus, to call. Elevate that, that concentration, right, which, which then leads to the creativity and it leads to genius. So, yeah, no, that, that all makes sense. I think the the time component of it, it the that variable of constraint a lot of creativity is born from that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Well, on that note, I think we'll start to wrap this up here. Anything you want to add? I mean, we just, we kind of, we kind of dove into our personal, personal wells there. So is there any any content or anything you want to share over the last week? Yeah, attended a trade show digital summit down in Tampa. Was was pretty good. I was telling you about it earlier. You know, the the big, the big takeaway from that is, I don't know if it's because we're in the northeast and specifically in the Boston area, where we tend to be a bit cutting edge, similar to maybe like San Francisco or something, but I was surprised by the lack of AI awareness and AI usage at this conference. In fact, even the the presenters were not well informed about what's going on in the AI world, and it was really eye opening for me. I ai came up only by way of what Google is doing to compete with AI, not the fact that their search share is dropping, and so to put a bow on that, the two big takeaways, the two like aha moments that I had was Gen Z is using Tiktok search more than Google, and have Been for two years now, which I wasn't aware of. So Google is already losing market share now. Gen Z also uses AI instead of Google. And you know Gen Z, those are people in their 20s. They're not super young like that's that's really as a marketer and even as a video director or producer, these are and people listening to this. These are things that we need to be paying attention to, because that is driving the change. Google is no longer a verb. No, no, yeah, it's definitely. It will only continue to drop. I mean, I we've talked about on the show, I don't I use Google, maybe for restaurants and everything else is almost at this point. It's kind of exclusively through chat GBT, because it cuts through. It just cuts to what exactly what you're asking it. It is just a part of it. Now, I'm sure Google will. I know Gemini is doing whatever it does. I don't, not really sure what, who's Gemini for at this point, but I'm sure they'll do something. It's for the lay person. It's for the it's for, like, the older generations that have always used Google. And it was funny, because I want to say she was on Google's payroll. This, one of these presenters was going on about how, you know, Google satisfaction is up, you know, double double digit percentages because of the Gemini summaries. And I'm like, but who is Google in business to that's the AI. Summaries means that people are going to fewer websites. Yeah, people why? The reason why people are happy is because they don't have to click on a website. They just get the answer fed to them. And that's the underlying problem here. Is that Google is start gonna it'll start affecting their ad revenue, and that's where things will start getting really interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Times are changing. Anyway, I went on and on about that. How about you? Any any thing? I actually went to a construction trade show last week, JLC at the Rhode Island convention center, they put it on every year. I've gone the last probably 10 years, minus I didn't go last year. And I don't think I went in 2021 because they didn't have it, but, or they rescheduled it or something. So I've been to it quite a bit. And compared to the international builders show, which is 100,000 people across, how many of a million square feet of trade show floor, and it's kind of this bigger than life cold thing, JLC is the complete opposite. It where it's like, every 10 feet you walk. I do know a lot of people in the construction industry because of Nick and people reaching out about the content and stuff. So it's like every 10 feet you see somebody you know. And it was kind of this warm, humanized event, which was, and it's like less, just under 10,000 people in attendance, I think so. It's, it was like, a it's an energizing event. It's just like, everybody's kind of happy to see each other. And just, it was a good every time I've gone to that show, it's, it's usually a pretty good experience. And it's, it's Rhode Island, so, like, I parked on the street, like a block away from the convention center, like Boston, if they did it here, it'd be, I'd walk from my office in South Boston to the convention center. It would be like an ordeal to get down there, yeah, where it's just kind of nice and people, it's a midpoint for people from Connecticut and the surrounding New England area. So it's just a nice it's just a nice event. Nice, nice, nice, good look at us out there learning stuff out in the world. Ai hasn't, hasn't learned how to build a building yet. No, so Well, actually, maybe we talk a bit about that after there, there is something that I saw in China, I think so. I said the 3d printed concrete buildings programmed and just builds the, you know, they drop all the supplies off, and they tell the AI to work those concrete tree printer things. I guess all those buildings fell down. There might be some. I'm sure it's coming. I'm sure I didn't see the follow up video. I just saw the impressive it will. It's only a matter of time. Yeah, yeah. All right. So I'm Doug Duvall motif media. We do high end video production, podcast production in the Boston area, and we travel for the right clients. Yep, and I'm Eric wing, owner of Darby digital. We specialize in web dev marketing services and AI consulting. And looking for, yeah, looking for more AI consulting opportunities, creative context.net. Where you can find this podcast, Apple podcast, Spotify, YouTube, creative context podcast and Instagram, creative contacts, underscore and we're looking to kind of branch out and be accessible in some different places. So maybe we'll keep you posted on that until then. Thank you, everyone. You this Sure?