Conditioning and Zone 2 Cardio Might Not Be the Answer for Tired Legs

Basketball Body and Mind

In this episode I talk about one of the biggest conditioning myths in basketball: that feeling tired in a game means you need to run more. It does not. I explain why getting tired can actually be a sign that you are pushing harder and improving, why long-distance running might not be the best way to build conditioning, and how to develop real basketball conditioning without stacking extra miles on top of your week. If you are a player, parent, or coach who wants to improve on the court, this is for you.

Links mentioned in this episode:

•      Previous episode on sleep, stress management, and relaxation — https://open.spotify.com/episode/5z5kSYrvfYUXH4QJinrH81?si=LYsJQwO4SAaUHG8wdjjYvQ

Connect with me:

Instagram — @balticmove

Website — www.balticmove.net

Transcript

Hard Truths About Conditioning

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Harder conditioning is not better. You will always be tired. The better your conditioning will be, the harder you will be able to push yourself and you will be still the same tyrant. Ratios are very important. So if you are working um for conditioning in basketball, you will need to rest more than you are training if you want to improve conditioning. This podcast is for youth basketball players, their parents and the coaches who develop them. In every episode, we cover topics that determine your success. We talk basketball, body and mind. I am Stan, strength and conditioning coach and physiotherapist, working with youth basketball athletes around the world. If you are serious about your development and you want to succeed in basketball, this podcast is for you. Let's get it.

The Zone 2 Running Problem

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of Basketball Body and Mind. Another episode has come and it's another episode that is special, and uh every episode is special as you can understand. But I really feel it uh this time because uh I am going to tackle the notion that you might need to do long steady running and uh zone two cardio, building the base, and so on. The issue that uh I'm just right at it. Uh the issue that I had and why I decided to record it because some of my online clients are forced to um run, let's say, those long 90 minutes uh sessions, and uh they have to run, but it's not me who's forcing them, it's their coach where they train in the club. It's good that they are listening to their coach as I want my clients to listen to um what I say to the clients, so it's good that they're listening, however, long distance running is rarely the case that we need to focus on if we want to improve conditioning. So the goal of this episode for me is that I would explain to you and you would better understand when you need conditioning and uh when you don't need conditioning, and if you still need to do conditioning, what you could do instead, or at what circumstances you would need to do zone two uh cardio. Because whenever we have a game and you feel tired uh during the fast breaks, you feel that probably I just need to do more conditioning, but it's not the case. Think about Olympic athletes, they are best in the world, best in the world, and they let's say finish, and uh sometimes after the finish they just like drop down and they just try to breathe heavily. So, do you think they need to work more on conditioning because they are like very tired? No, like they are pushing the limits, and that's why they are getting tired. Same to you, you can improve conditioning to maximum, and it will still be dropping uh on the floor when you will be tired. I hope not, but uh the the idea is like the better you get, the more you push, the same tired you are. However, sometimes you need to do uh that conditioning, but uh in order to know that we need to know the baseline, we need to know how to monitor, how to track whether you are improving in the conditioning. So that's what I hope you will understand by the end of this episode.

Basketball Is Not Steady Running

SPEAKER_00 3:50

So if we start and uh we think about differences between your sport and the long steady cardio, uh, I mean, there's like plenty, plenty of differences. But the first one that comes to my mind is that your sport, like unless you are a runner, your sport, in this case basketball, is not continuous running. In basketball, like you need to shuffle, you need to backpedal, you need to jump, crossover, hip turn. Um, then you have to do that at different intensities. Sometimes you're going slower, sometimes like medium speed, sometimes max speed. All those movements can be one after another, and the the time that you are uh kind of changing from one movement to another can be like every 1.5 seconds, you are changing direction. So think about that you are running for 30 minutes or more, like just continuous straight line. But in your sport, you are not running in straight line for more than okay, it can be three seconds, but usually you if you are running straight, you will be turning a little bit to one side, a little bit to another side, and so on. We're talking about 30 minutes and three seconds, so that's the uh difference, and there is no one type of movement that you do, it's like plenty of movements, there's no one type of intensity that you do, it's plenty of intensities, and uh it's not continuous. And now we're coming back to the running continuously, one type of movement and one type of intensity, and we think that that type of running will help you to be more conditioned on the court. I really, really doubt.

The Three Parts Of Conditioning

SPEAKER_00 5:44

Few reasons uh why, and I think it's it would be very good for you to understand that conditioning is not just running, and I really like Joel Jameson. Uh, he's a coach from uh USA, he primarily works with the MMA athletes, but uh they are like very they have to be super conditioned. Uh but uh he explains it that there are three types of let's say things that influence conditioning. So number one is your engine, so the capacity that let's say maybe with running you can improve that. So your engine. Number two is movement efficiency and how well do you move on the court? So, how well do you run? How well do you cut? How well do you jump? How well do you shuffle, back pedal, and so on? Because if you have very terrible technique in all of those or in some of those movements, it will cost more energy for you to uh perform those actions. So even if you will do that, um, let's say, even if you will have better engine and uh your technique will be terrible, you will do worse technique, so it will cost you more energy. So maybe in order to improve conditioning, we need to improve the movement, let's say technique. It can be also, but it's observed through the coach's eye. And uh last, the third thing is mental toughness. It's your ability to tolerate that burning sensation in your legs and keep going. So when we are not me, when you are on a basketball court and there is a basketball game which is fun for you, maybe there are spectators, maybe there are cameras, maybe you like like some let's say scholarship is on the line or your contract is on the line. Of course, you will be able to let's say expose yourself to the higher intensities, and you will be able to sustain that burning sensation for a longer time. Do you think it is the same when we are testing you? When there's just you know that it's going to be the test, and it's just you and your teammates. If you can compete against each other, maybe, but it's not possible to replicate that running, uh, that burning sensation um capabilities of you sustaining that burning sensation. There's no cameras, there is nothing on the line, there is no spectators. So that's why it's something that also needs to be looked into, needs to be taken into account when we are testing the conditioning. Uh, we coaches, and uh you also should be thinking, okay, if I'm playing the basketball game and I feel my legs are burning, it it means like I'm improving, I'm improving game or basketball specific conditioning. And uh you need to have all of those uh things, engine movement efficiency, movement technique, and mental toughness like in one place, then if they are all checked, so then you will have uh great conditioning. But let's assume that all those are good, you're doing like your movement technique is good, and your capability of pushing through the burning cessation is also good, and we just lacking the engine because when we are talking about the conditioning, it's the first thing that comes to the mind, and this is what this podcast is about when we need to push, uh when we need to do conditioning, and when we don't need to do uh conditioning. So, in order to work on conditioning, at the end I will give you exactly uh what I do with my in-person or in online clients how how we work uh on conditioning and what I believe are the best ways to uh do. But

Why Work To Rest Ratios Matter

SPEAKER_00 10:08

uh let's if we're talking about the conditioning, we need to, as I said, pay into account that every 1.5 or like two seconds on the basketball court, you will be changing direction. So, in conditioning, whenever you are working on that, it would be nice, maybe not every two seconds, uh, but it would be nice to include the conditioning with changing direction. It's it doesn't have to be uh just straight line or it doesn't have to be shuttles every four meters. I mean, it can be sometimes, depending on the goals, depending on what we are working. Of course, we will have much more muscle fatigue with that type of uh conditioning, but it will be more specific. So when we are working on the conditioning, we should be looking around one to four ratio, work-to-rest ratio. So if you are running uh for three seconds, you will be resting for 12 seconds, but but it can be up to like one to eight even uh on the baseball game. However, um, that's like a little bit of side note. Uh, in episode four, I believe, uh, or three, Ugo Salazar from Bosconia, he has done some inside research about the EuroLeague game, and he found no correlation between uh the long how long the basketball uh the ball in the basketball game is live and when it's off. What I mean uh by that is how long the players are playing without stopping, like stopping would be like a foul, um a timeout, or it can be the ball goes out of bounds. Sometimes now in Spain, it's not the time doesn't even stop. So that would not be uh the case. But he found that sometimes you can be playing for 15 seconds and then resting for two minutes, but sometimes you can be playing for two minutes and then maybe resting 20 seconds. He found no correlation between them the the longer you play, the more you rest. He found like it's like you have to be ready for uh everything. So a little bit of uh kind of sidetrack, but for you to understand, like we cannot do everything, so we pay attention to the ratio, and ratio is usually that I do is one, two, four.

How Long Runs Can Backfire

SPEAKER_00 12:37

So, how that long distance running or long um let's say steady pace running works against you. Um, I'll not go too much into the details, but uh I'll just talk very, very briefly. So when you are running long distance, your your body thinks I don't need any big muscles, I just need to survive this running because usually let's say I need to uh use like 40% of my energy, and now when I'm running, I'm like 110, 120 uh percent of that I need to use my uh energy. So your body goes into survival mode, so it says, I would rather lose something, in this case would be muscles, then I would then I would die and I would stop running. So it's called like the pathway that it turns off. It's called the MTOR. Maybe you have heard it somewhere, it's the pathway that kind of stimulates the muscle growth, uh, but the pathway that activates is AMPK. So your stress hormone levels go up and your body is in survival mode, so they don't need to build any muscles. So if your goal is to improve the first step, which can be either like tendon or muscle dominant, uh, tendon dominant we can train, but it will be a lot by genetics, but muscles we can really, really work on. But you are running those long distances and you are turning that pathway and telling your body that hey, don't build those muscles. We don't need we need to work on conditioning. That's the goal for us. So I don't think your goal is to be best conditioned uh athlete on the team, but everyone is faster than you. Like in Duke University, I was attending one webinar and the head of performance uh said basketball is just one-step sport. He said you have to be one step faster than the opponent, either like in front or back, creating this pace, right? So if your opponent's one step faster than you, that's it. It's a game over. Like it's game over, no matter how well conditioned you will be. Maybe the person is able to play just 20 minutes, and you're able to play 40 minutes at medium intensity. But those 20 minutes, when he's on the court, he's beating you every single time. So your body, when you are running a long distance, you are shifting your body more to the endurance type of athlete. But basketball is not endurance. We do need conditioning, uh, but basketball is more as of uh let's say like a power, like a first step uh type of sport. And uh the goal, like if you want to improve, the goal is not to get you tired, uh, the goal is to get better at the sport, right? So if you are doing long distance conditioning, uh you really need to think if that is getting you tired or if that is getting you um better in the sport. Another reason is that you already are running a lot. A lot. You can be in the practice, you can be covering three to six kilometers depending on the intensity of the practice, and you are doing that how many times? Ask yourself how many times per week you train full court basketball? Three, four, five? Some of my clients they're training five times a week, plus they have three skill sessions a week Monday, uh, Wednesday, Friday, and they are training basketball five times a week. So, do you think that you will add another hour of running and it will work on your conditioning? Instead of running for 14 hours, you will be running for 15 hours, and you think, oh, actually, that one hour of extra work is helping me a lot. I almost uh use some bad words right now. You can see how fired up I am, but no, no, okay, I cannot say no, most likely, almost sure that it will not help you. Okay, so you already are doing lots of volume of running, so maybe uh it would be better for you to devote that time to something else that would be helping you with that first step, helping you with that uh muscles. Maybe you could be even like kind of activating that m tour, that uh let's say uh messenger that is sending the signal to the body that hey, we need to build some muscles rather than you're sending another message like, hey, no muscles needed, uh let's be slow, but be conditioned. Uh, that's the goal. And also think about this. If my math will not uh kind of uh disappoint me and you, but example, you are 80 kilograms had lead at each step that you take, like running step that you take, it's like four times your body weight. So that is like 320 uh kilograms, right? So that would be around like 400 pounds, and we're making, let's say, around 700 steps per kilometer. So per kilometer, you would be exposing around whatever to uh 20 no 210 uh 000 kilograms. Hey, this is per kilometer, you would be exposing yourself to over 200,000 kilograms of force to your body, but that is just a one kilometer. What if you run five that equals to one million kilograms? 1,000 tons. What if you're running for 10? That equals to two millions of kilograms. Do you really want to expose that much of load on your body, on your joints, when you're already exposing yourself to that many basketball sessions and runs and jumps and so on? And uh another thing that we could even talk, like now I'm just thinking about the technique of running. How how good your technique looks like looks like when you are jugging? Usually it's like a bad technique. Maybe you are even tired. Um, it's not so good for the knees, for the ankles, for the here for the foot when you are collapsing at each foot. You also need to know how to run. Okay, so you probably got my point about the conditioning uh for zone two for that cardio. Uh, but uh I don't know who said that, but uh they said no matter how thin the slice is, there are always two sides. So there is another side that I also want to present because it's never uh just one way. Okay,

When Zone 2 Actually Makes Sense

SPEAKER_00 19:59

so when running makes sense is um if you remember, like uh there was an episode uh that I recorded about sleep, stress management, and relaxation. So one of that is the reason why slow, steady running could be beneficial for you. So the reason is that if you are feeling mentally relaxed, you feel good, you feel rested, uh, maybe you got some ideas, uh maybe that is a valid reason for you to go and jog for that long time. Maybe it's better than not to jog, but maybe do bike, which would be less load for the knees and for the ankles. So that would be one reason if you are feeling uh that it's relaxing you, that it helps you to manage the stress of school, of basketball, of um uh expectations that you have for yourself from the parents, coaches, and so on. Another reason could be for zone two cardio. I don't know if any of you would be uh kind of if you could use this as a reason, because I believe that would be for someone who is uh not exercising, but if doctor, I'm talking about doctor, not a coach, that they assessed your heart and your cardiovascular system is kind of not well developed. So, for that case, actually, you would be sitting on the bike and you would be at certain intensity, certain duration, you would be uh doing the zone two cardio and you would be improving your um let's say cardiovascular system and number three. Is this very um subjective, meaning like you all like we are not we're not going to measure that, but maybe you will be. I will tell you at the end how you can measure that. But uh maybe you feel that after like basketball, let's say um not a game, but during the game, you have a stoppage. Maybe there was a foul and it was like a one minute of running up and down, you're feeling very tired, and there is like a one-minute break when somebody's shooting free throws or somebody is having a sub, and you feel that in that time you barely caught your breaths. So that you feel still very tired after uh that 30 or 60 seconds, it does not help you. So that would be one of the reasons that you could actually do zone two cardio, and maybe that would be for you um a reason to include that in your training program. So I thought only about these three uh reasons. Maybe there is more. Let me know if you have any uh more. I would be very happy to discuss that with you.

How To Test Your Engine

SPEAKER_00 23:15

So, how to test whether you need extra conditioning or not? Uh, if we are talking about the zone two cardio, there are a few things that you could do. These are not something like set in stone, and this is exactly what you need to do, but I'll just share what I do with my online clients so you guys know at least, or you will have a filter how you can check kind of some uh some flags, let's say. So, what I do is I always ask my clients to uh if we are working on uh conditioning, that I want to know the resting heart rate in the morning. So whenever you wake up, you go to the toilet, and after that, you are sitting down and you measure with a chest belt, with the chest uh like with a belt on your chest uh to measure your heart rate. And the goal is to be below 55 uh beats per minute. So that is one sign. Another one, uh, when I was talking about that uh resting between runs when somebody shooting a free throws or somebody uh like having a sub. So, how to test if your recovery is good? We do that with a that chest trap, you are raising, you're doing some kind of like conditioning drill that you are raising your heart rate maximum, and then after that maximum uh heart rate, you are sitting down, and in 60 seconds, I would like to see 40 beats per minute down. So that would be another indication that your engine uh that your uh basic aerobic conditioning is working well. Some other bassable specific tests could be they're not valid for uh scientific reasons, but they're valid for bassable reasons because many coaches in colleges or in high schools they are using these tests. So it's 17s where you are um running sideline to sideline 17 times, and then you're resting two times, and you do that total of three runs. So three times running seventeens with two minutes rest in between. Goal is to be below 60 seconds. If you're like a big center, you can be, or like a big number four, you can be 162 uh seconds. It can be also baseline runs, but that uh Miami Heats they are doing. Um, I know Duke also does that. Um, that you have to run five times ten chords baseline to baseline, and you have two minutes rest in between. So the average is again around 60 seconds. If you are big, it can be 62 seconds. But also we need to track the sum of all those five runs, not only in average, how long do you spend, but in how long does it did it take you to run those five times? And last is the one like a yo-yo test, any type of variation of the yo-yo test. You can also test yourself. And uh the target is if we are doing uh Martin Bookate, but shade, uh uh sorry, I'm butchering his uh last name, but you can find the description of that um test in the show notes. But for that one, you will need a specific audio file to have uh in order to complete the test. But there we're looking for around 19 kilometers per hour.

Better Conditioning Options Than Jogging

SPEAKER_00 27:07

But what to do instead, instead of those long steady uh cardios, uh remember we're looking at the ratios. The goal is to be around 1 to 4 or even up to 1 to 8 uh work to rest ratio. So if you're running for 10 seconds maximum intensity sprints, you will need to run at least 40 seconds. So let's say you run for 10, you rest for 50, and then you are resting, can be either light jog or it can be just walking, because that will happen on the court, or you can do certain other like easy shuffles, um, any kind of resting that you would feel your heart rate is dropping down. So that would be let's say a session, and you do that for 10 times, so 10 uh sprints for 10 seconds. That could be a full session. You know, you do a warm-up, uh, you do some maybe apply metrics also, and then you do some sprints and then a cooldown. That's like a 45-35 minutes of session, like it doesn't need to be that long and grueling, even though when we're talking about the conditioning, we think, oh, it has to be that you almost puke. I mean, sometimes if we are training that mental toughness as I was talking, like the feeling and the burning, the the burning feeling in your legs that we are able to kind of sustain. So, yes, in that case, it's okay to be very tired and uh get to the limits, but that will be in the off-season, maybe two, three sessions in full off-season, in my opinion. Maybe somebody else are doing differently, but uh that is it. We don't need to kill you in each conditioning session. So, yeah, that would be uh some for you um ideas. Another thing what we uh can do is after the basketball sessions, you are uh doing some extra conditioning. It can be just training running straight lines. So, for example, you're running seven times baseline to baseline, and then you're walking for one and you are completing a total of five runs. That will be 35 chords at high intensity runs. But you don't have to stick to just straight line runs, you can just run and at random places you stop, you turn around, you add some shuffles. Maybe when you stop, you don't just turn around and um sprint back. Maybe you stop, you jump and turn, land, and then you are running. Maybe, as I said, like you start with some shuffles and then you go to the running, maybe you stop, you go a full couple crossovers, backpedal, turn, and then you're running. Don't stick to just straight line running. Think about that you are doing passable specific moves that will happen on the basketball court. But remember, we need to respect the ratio of resting. So that is very important. Remember, one to four is our minimum. Okay, sometimes I go one to three, but uh keep it like just one to four if you're running for 30 seconds and then you're walking to another side, so at least one minute will be uh rest, or like 90 seconds will be uh rest. Maybe at the beginning you will be resting a little bit less. That's what I do when we are doing some uh kind of shuttle runs. So maybe in the after first set, we're still feeling okay. So we rest only 45 seconds, and it was like 20 seconds to uh complete the run, but then at the end we're resting like 60 or 90 seconds, then it still like took us like 25 seconds to run. So maybe that could be also something that you use. It can be any kind of uh bassable specific. Also, like if you have shooting drill, shooting uh session, you can do a drill that involves a little bit more of the running. So you are working on the uh shooting under fatigue, so you need to include some of the conditioning. Um, I heard in the one episode, I don't remember who said that, but it was like a curvy drill that uh you need to collect 21 points under 60 seconds. And if you are shooting inside of the paint, it's one point. If you are shooting mid-ranger, it's two points. Three-pointer, of course, it's three points. But the catch is that after each shot, you need to sprint to the uh middle of the court and then go back. Somebody is rebounding for you, you don't have to rebound your own balls, and they just pass to you, and you decide which shot you take. So that could be another uh thing. You can include, like, okay, I know the curry drill is I think um was it like in two minutes, uh, five spots, two makes in a row, uh, that you have to do. I also know that I think you have to make ten in a row, uh, three pointers at the corner, but after each shot, you are running to the opposite base to the other opposite side court, and you re you catch a ball, you shoot a three-pointer from the corner, then you run to another side, shoot, side, shoot, and so on. So it involves running. You can include that also in your uh kind of weekly plan without doing extra conditioning. Another thing uh that I really think it would be beneficial for everyone to start doing is just consciously run faster. Whenever there is a ball, uh like transition offense, transition defense, or just in general, like if even if the opponents are going very slow and you are running fast to your side, you're working on yourself, you're working on your conditioning. That would be another way to add conditioning without adding anything. Just run faster, don't jog. So that extra three, four, five steps of the high intensity will work on your first step, and you will definitely feel in your lungs. And another thing, this is the last thing, uh, how we train in online and also in um like in person, and we usually do that only in the off-season, but uh we do power conditioning, and with power conditioning, we use tears and we use hills. Um, so how we do if we have hill, so we can do backpedaling, we can do shuffle, we can do uh crossovers, we can do sprints up the hill, and you can run like four, six, eight seconds um up, you know, and every step will be as a first step for you, but you're running like 20 meters, and every step is like a first step, so that's why I really really like that. Uh, the issue with that is you need to give more rest. So, in this time, like we go 1 to 10, if not more. So we're running for four to six seconds, and then we're resting for a minute when you are walking down the hill. Uh so I really like that. Another thing that I do is that when we are shuffling, maybe we add a little bit of backpedal. Uh, when we're doing maybe a couple of crossovers, then into shuffle, into sprint. So just again play around as you were playing on the basketball court. If you want to improve your conditioning, we need to do those movement, different movement um variations, let's say. And you will be working on your engine, you will be working on your movement mechanics, and later, what we do, what we finish after those uh back pedal, sprintings, and so on, later we finish with like tough something tough. It can be either like uh longer duration sprints up the hill, or maybe you are uh having uh stairs next to it, like we do. So then we do some stair runs uh that are very grueling. So then at the last phase, we are touching a little bit of that mental uh toughness, that burning sensation in the legs. So we finish like that. So this is what I would say you could do instead of the long steady uh cardio. Now I'm thinking like there's another thing that you could do. You could go again in your straight line running uh as you needed, and uh let's say you sprint for 10 seconds and then 50 seconds you're resting, and you do that for as long as coach wants you to do, and that is it. You will be working on the first step, you will be working on that uh conditioning, you will be working on a basketball-specific um type of work that you need to do on the court.

Key Takeaways And Final Ask

SPEAKER_00 36:12

So, three key takeaways would be that uh harder conditioning is not better. Meaning, even if your conditioning session was not something that you did not puke, it's good. You don't have to puke after conditioning sessions, you don't have to do suicide on the football, American football uh field, you don't need to do all those crazy uh college preseason or off-season workouts in order to improve your conditioning. There is a smart way to do train on the engine, train on the movement efficiency, and rarely, but sometimes, like a couple times in the off-season, include that mental toughness that it will be super difficult. Number two is you will always be tired. The better your conditioning will be, the harder you will be able to push yourself, and you will be still the same tyrant. So we need to set the baseline and measure that you are improving. And as I said, you can do those 17s, you can do those court runs, you can check your heart rate in the morning, you can check your heart rate recovery. So all of these are valid tests that you can use. And the number three is uh ratios matter. You don't uh if you go just one-to-one ratio, like you're doing or like two to one, two times longer work and 10 seconds uh rest, like Tabata style, yes, but rarely, rarely that will help you. Maybe in the offseason you have a faith that you will be using that tabata, that's fine, but uh, I don't I didn't even mention that because there is no like it's not something that you should be using, in my opinion. Right now, uh, we're talking about the zone two cardio, so yes, uh ratios are very important. So if you are working um for conditioning in baseball, you will need to rest more than you are training if you want to improve conditioning. So these would be my uh key takeaways. I really hope you have now a better understanding um why zone two is not uh usually the best thing to do, uh, what to do instead, and what would be the reasons for you to do the zone 2 uh cardio? If you would like to know more about zone two cardio, let me know. We can go into the heart adaptations, um, how it changes when you are doing high-intensity runs, when you do uh sprint intervals, when you do zone two cardio, how does your body adapt to different uh uh stimulus? So thank you for listening. As always, if you can share this episode with someone who does maybe lots of conditioning, who does zone two cardio, and they would need to hear because they want to prove their sports at the same time. Uh, this would be the best way to support us for now. Training basketball, body, and mind.