31. Why Your Leadership Gets Misunderstood (and How to Change That) | with Miriam Dowling-Schmitt, DNP

Have you ever walked out of a difficult conversation feeling relieved that it went well, only to learn later that the other person felt intimidated, dismissed, or misunderstood?

That discovery can be disorienting, especially when you care deeply about people and had every intention of being helpful.

As your authority grows, however, people may experience your words and energy differently than they did earlier in your career. An idea you are casually exploring may sound like a decision. Your enthusiasm during a crisis may increase someone else’s anxiety. Even a joke or offhand comment can carry more weight than you realize.

In this episode, Dr. Annie talks with nursing executive Miriam, DNP, about the difficult work of recognizing when your impact does not match your intentions.

Miriam shares the surprising feedback that changed how she entered high-pressure healthcare situations, what observing dogs and horses taught her about reading non-verbals, and how becoming a vice president changed the way nursing leaders and providers interpret her words.

You’ll also hear how to:

• Notice what is happening in the room before deciding how to respond
• Recognize when your energy is increasing pressure for other people
• Make it clear when you want honest pushback
• Apologize and repair when your communication lands more forcefully than you'd intended

By becoming more aware of what other people may be experiencing, you can respond with greater clarity, compassion, and authority.

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0:00 — The Observe-Before-You-React Habit That Closes the Gap Between Your Intentions and Your Impact

03:30 — The Deep Breath and Body-Language Read That Keeps You Credible When the Room Is in Crisis

08:25 — Naming Your Intent Out Loud So Your Casual Comments Stop Landing as Orders

09:55 — The Exact Phrase That Gets Your Team to Push Back Instead of Just Agreeing With You

10:45 — The Two-Part Apology That Repairs Trust Without Losing Your Directness

11:25 — A 90-Second Practice to Strengthen Leadership Presence Before Your Next Meeting

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Episode Links:
Meet Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: LinkedIn
Download the free Drama-Free Leadership Starter Kit

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Other Episodes You’ll Love:

28. When Authenticity Backfires: What Leaders Need to Know about Being Real at Work

13. How to Stay Calm and Communicate Clearly in Tough Conversations | Ally McLean, NP

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...

More Resources for You:

• Explore Dr. Annie's Senior Leadership Coaching Programs
• Get the (free!) Drama-Free Leadership Starter Kit so you can eliminate interpersonal drama on your team.

Connect with Dr. Annie online: LINKEDIN | WEBSITE

©Ⓟ 2025 Annie Campanile, LLC. All rights reserved.

Transcript

Dr Annie Podcast Miriam VER 2 (ANNIE EDIT-Miriam Episode #1)

Dr Annie: [00:00:00] You know that moment when you walk out of a difficult conversation feeling satisfied that it went well, and then you find out that it actually didn't?

That gap between how you view yourself as a leader and how others view you can undermine even your best intentions. My guest today, Miriam Dowling-Schmitt, is a nursing executive and lifelong student of animal behavior who's going to show you how to close that gap for good, so you'll know exactly what to do when your impact doesn't match your intentions.

Speaker 4: Welcome to Drama Free Teams, the show for leaders who care deeply and want their teams to thrive without the drama. I'm your host, Dr. Annie Campanille. Let's make your team drama-free.

Dr Annie: Welcome to season two of Drama Free Teams. This season, I'm bringing more guests to the show, leaders who are working to improve their own communication skills and reduce interpersonal drama on their teams every single day.

My guest, Miriam, began her nursing career [00:01:00] in the ICU and grew to become a vice president while also pursuing her PhD and constantly refining her communication under pressure

Something that I loved about your bio was that you grew up in the woods- Mm-hmm

in northern New Hampshire, talking to dogs. That is so fun.

Miriam: Always. 

Dr Annie: So I'm super curious, what have you learned from dogs that helps you in communicating with people or building trust with people? 

Miriam: I feel like I have learned so much in talking to dogs, to horses, to deer.

I chitchat with all of the deer on my bike ride to work every day. And actually, this is something that you mentioned once upon a time when I was talking about why I like working with horses and, and other animals so much. And you said, "Well, there are certain base instincts that come with being a person that don't really change as you get older."

Mm-hmm. I think in that, in that moment I was talking about how I learned so much about my colleagues after becoming a mother, and how I didn't want to, like, infantilize my colleagues. Yeah. [00:02:00] But I just learned so much about how to treat people. And you said, "Well, there are certain things about you as a person when you're growing up that don't really change that much."

And what's so interesting is there are so many things about horses and dogs and cats and every other critter- 

Dr Annie: Yeah ... 

Miriam: that we can connect with as people. Growing up, I always wanted a dog. We didn't get a dog till I was four. So I think I understood the weight of the gift of that animal.

Dr Annie: Yeah. 

Miriam: And started reading her body language and, just that incredible connection that you can have, especially with a dog. She was a chocolate lab, Bailey- Oh ... when I was growing up. Labs are so forgiving. They're so kind. They're so energetic. There is no one in the world who will greet you like a dog when you get home.

I just learned so much about how I wanted to be treated in the world and how I want to treat other people from the love of a dog, and it's never left me. I love them so much. 

Dr Annie: It's so [00:03:00] beautiful. I love that you have this perspective with animals because it's true. They have that- survival response just like we all do.

Miriam: Yep. 

Dr Annie: And dogs, are so present and so sweet and so responsive, but also very observant. 

Miriam: Mm-hmm. 

Dr Annie: I remember noticing that, and I certainly became a very observant child in a very chaotic home.

Miriam: Mm-hmm. 

Dr Annie: So whether you're outdoors observing nature or you're indoors observing other kinds of wildness- Mm-hmm ... with people, being able to observe and then respond- 

Miriam: Yep ... 

Dr Annie: rather than react- 

Miriam: Yep ... 

Dr Annie: is so helpful.

So as a vice president of Periop and starting in the ICU as a nurse- 

Miriam: Mm-hmm ... 

Dr Annie: you've been in nursing for so long.

Miriam: Mm-hmm. 

Dr Annie: What's one thing that you do to help yourself stay, stay grounded or get grounded- 

Miriam: Mm ... 

Dr Annie: when you get that jolt of fear or anger or stress in those moments that get really intense? 

Miriam: Honestly, I still think it's [00:04:00] really hard for me. I've been a nurse for almost 20 years now, and I love those high-intensity environments, and I think that I like them so much because I feel this energetic response to something is happening and someone needs me, and I am ready to act.

And I think that rush of endorphins and, and all the other neuro, transmitters that happen when you feel that, that makes me so excited about what I get to do. And it's really interesting that even though I'm not in a clinical setting anymore, I still feel that. Like when I hear, our air handling system is down in the OR, I'm like, "Oh, they need me to help plan."

"This is gonna be great." And I still sort of get that rush as if I was, the one doing chest compressions and saving someone's life. So I still really struggle with how to calm myself in that moment, and I remember as a charge nurse in the ICU getting the feedback via an anonymous survey that I wasn't good in a crisis.

Dr Annie: Wow. 

Miriam: And I was [00:05:00] so unbelievably offended 'cause I was like, "Crisis is my favorite." Mm-hmm. "I, I want nothing but to be in a crisis. I really enjoy that." And I think it's because I grew up in a very calm setting. There was never a crisis, and so I was just like- Amazing ... "This is really interesting." It was novel for you.

"I like this feeling." It was novel. Um, and I, I realized after getting that feedback that I was so excited in that moment, and other people didn't know what to do with that energy 'cause I would come rushing into a room where a patient was coding or hemorrhaging and just be everywhere and doing everything and just, like, feeling the rush and loving it.

So it takes me- a little while to calm down and go, "Not everyone is excited about this. A lot of people are scared." 

Dr Annie: Mm-hmm. "

Miriam: They don't like this. These feelings bring back feelings for them that are not positive. And I need to center myself for a moment, take a deep breath, and read the body language of the people around me, and respond [00:06:00] to what they need, 'cause I'm the leader in this situation."

And that has taken me a long time, and I still don't always nail it. Yeah. But I think especially in my time doing natural horsemanship training, I sort of always bring it back to horses and other animals. Horses are very naturally traumatized. They're prey animals. The way we train horses can be very brutal, and oftentimes you don't know the history of a horse.

Sort of like if you walk into a work situation, you don't know the history of the person that you're working with. You have to read that animal very quickly in order to stay safe yourself, because a horse can hurt you very quickly with just a kick. So you have to be able to read their body language and respond appropriately.

 I think as I've gotten older and I've gotten further in my leadership career, I've gotten a little bit better at getting into a situation and reading someone's body language and going, "That person is wildly uncomfortable."

Hmm. "I either have to change the situation that's happening, or I have to [00:07:00] include them differently somehow." That has been really helpful in taking the focus off of me and how I'm feeling, and realizing that my part in that intense situation is actually to help the other people.

Dr Annie: Yeah. What I'm hearing from you is- ... all of your practice in observing nature, observing dogs growing up- Mm-hmm ... observing your children, you're applying that as you have progressed in leadership, and this is something all leaders really would benefit from.

Miriam: Mm-hmm. 

Dr Annie: Because ... Yes, we get promoted because we do our jobs well and we have the capacity to have more influence, to have more responsibility. And so often high achievers unconsciously take that as, "I have to be the rescuer," or, "I can be. I want to." And yet, like you said, you walk into a room, maybe our heightened energy, other people's nervous system takes as dangerous- Mm-hmm

or, "Oh my gosh, I have to be doing more faster." 

Mm-hmm. 

So that skill of [00:08:00] pausing, take a breath, looking outside of ourselves to notice what other people are feeling, is such a skill. And it is a skill I think we all can refine forever. 

Christopher: Mm-hmm.

Miriam: I'm still working on apologizing and being more realistic about what did my actions mean in that situation. We were talking earlier this week about how I have not realized the, the weight of being a vice president. 

Dr Annie: Yes. 

Miriam: It's been two years now, and the things that I was able to say, even as a director, a bedside nurse, anything like that, it is so different if I say it now.

Dr Annie: Like a, like an offhanded comment or a 

Miriam: joke or- Offhanded comment, joke, all of those things. Mm. The way people will immediately react to me, 'cause I try to be very authentic. I try to be who I am, and who I am is now different because of this title that I have, so that has been really interesting [00:09:00] for me to try to work through that and realize that I have this seat of authority now, and people will respond to that.

Dr Annie: Mm. The boundaries 

Miriam: have 

Dr Annie: to change. And I have 

Miriam: to... The boundaries have to change. I have to be more respectful. I have to realize that people are more likely to do what I ask of them. I love to just throw ideas out there, and they could be terrible ideas, and they'll say, "Okay, Miriam, yeah, I'll do that."

And I'm like, "No, no, no. Wait a second. We're, we're hashing through this. What do you have to give me in return?" And they're like, "Whatever you want to do." And I'm like, "Oh, no." "That's not, that's not what I wanted. I wanted to hear what you thought. I wanted you to push back on what I was thinking." And that, that power dynamic is so different now.

Yeah. And I never had that, especially I feel like as a, as a woman .. i never had that white male authority that many people are, are gifted with, and it wasn't until I started getting into leadership more and more and more that I fully understood, oh, oh- Mm-hmm ... the power dynamics are different here.

Dr Annie: And all of the assumptions people make- 

Miriam: Mm-hmm ... 

Dr Annie: about a [00:10:00] person with a particular title. 

Miriam: Yep. 

Dr Annie: And to keep themselves safe.

They interpret any comment as a directive, as you're saying. 

Miriam: Exactly. 

Dr Annie: So to build your toolbox of creating psychological safety with folks to be able to push back when you say, "I actually really want to know what you think"- 

Miriam: Mm-hmm

Dr Annie: so they don't just say, "Well, I think it's really good," right? 

Miriam: Yeah. 

Dr Annie: That takes time. 

Miriam: Yep. And what I'm still struggling with is there are times when I don't want them to push back, and it is a directive. And how do I differentiate between those two things? Mm-hmm. So that is something that I'm still very much learning.

Dr Annie: Oh my gosh, and it can be so simple, really- 

Miriam: Mm-hmm ... 

Dr Annie: to say, often I really want you to push back. Right now I need you to know what I'm gonna share, it actually is a directive. 

Miriam: Yep, and I still haven't nailed that yet, even though like the way you say it is so simple and beautiful and perfect. Like in the moment, I've gotten feedback like, "Well, you came across way too hard."

Mm. And I'm just like, "Oh, didn't nail it." Yeah. "All right. I'm gonna try again differently." [00:11:00] And then- That's the key ... working on apologizing and saying, "I'm really sorry that it came across that way. What I meant was this." 

Dr Annie: Yeah. 

Miriam: You know, and I hope that I can be more proactive and say it in the moment, my intent is this, which is a tool you introduced to me earlier this week.

Yeah. And I don't mean to be authoritarian, but this is really important. We need to get this done. 

Dr Annie: Yeah. 

Miriam: That sort of thing. 

Dr Annie: Yeah. 

Miriam: Yeah. 

Dr Annie: Every day is a new day to practice, and- Yep ... we all get so many opportunities. 

Miriam: Yep. 

Speaker 5: Miriam, thank you so much for being here today. I just love how much you've taught us about observing before reacting. And I have to say, I will never think about dogs and horses quite the same way again. And as always, for you listening, I want to leave you with an activity you can do in 90 seconds or less.

The next time you log on or walk into a meeting, before you say anything, pause for one full breath and simply observe. Notice people's body language. Notice the energy in the space. Notice who's talking and who's unusually [00:12:00] quiet. You may discover that people need something very different from what you expected, and that awareness can help you respond differently.

Speaker 7: if you haven't downloaded my free Drama-Free Leadership Starter Kit yet, click the link in the show notes today because it will help you create the conditions where you and your colleagues will stop defending and start communicating.

Speaker 5: Next time, Miriam and I will explore what to do when you're tempted to walk away from a job you love because of a conflict that seems impossible to resolve. Until then, I'm Dr. Annie Campanile reminding you that conflict is natural and drama is optional.

See you next time!