32. Before You Quit Over One Difficult Colleague, Listen to This | with Miriam Dowling-Schmitt, DNP

Ever imagine the relief of resigning because one difficult colleague makes a job you loved feel unbearable?

When interpersonal drama makes you dread going to work, leaving can seem like the best option. Maybe the only option. You might tell yourself, “I’ve got to get out of here!” But that fight-or-flight urgency may be driving you toward a decision you’ll regret.

In this episode, nursing executive Miriam Dowling-Schmitt shares what happened when persistent frustration with one difficult colleague in the intensive care unit led her to leave what she now describes as probably the best job she’s ever had.

Looking back, she can see the “I’ve gotta get out of here” energy, the unmet needs, the unexpressed wants, and the assumptions that drove her decision. Her leader tried to help, but Miriam did not yet know how to ask for the kind of support she really wanted: the kind that might have helped her stay, repair the conflict, and protect the work she loved.

Before you leave a job you love, this episode will help you slow the urgency, look beneath the conflict, and ask for the kind of help you really want.

...

00:00 – Why One Difficult Relationship Can Make Quitting Feel Like Relief

01:02 – How Trust Forms in High-Intensity Healthcare Work

04:28 – Why “Assume Positive Intent” Is Hard When You’re Triggered

05:49 – The Job Miriam Regretted Leaving Because of One Difficult Relationship

07:36 – What “I Gotta Get Out of Here” Energy Is Really Telling You

08:32 – How the Drama-Free Communication Iceberg Helps You Look Beneath the Conflict

12:40 – The Kind of Help to Ask for Before You Decide to Leave

14:42 – Three Insights to Use Before Workplace Conflict Drives Your Decision

17:00 – A 90-Second Practice to Pause the Urge to Escape

...

Episode Links:

• Get the Drama-Free Leadership Starter Kit
• Get the Drama-Free Communication Iceberg
• Learn more about Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: LinkedIn

 ...

Other Episodes You’ll Love:

• What’s Really Driving Conflict on Your Team (And Why Many Leaders Miss It)
• How to Quiet Your Inner Critic as a Leader When Praise Isn’t Enough

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More Resources for You:

• Explore Dr. Annie's Senior Leadership Coaching Programs
• Get the (free!) Drama-Free Leadership Starter Kit so you can eliminate interpersonal drama on your team.

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©Ⓟ 2025 Annie Campanile, LLC. All rights reserved.

Transcript

Transcript

32. Before You Quit Over One Difficult Colleague, Listen to This | with Miriam Dowling-Schmitt, DNP

Dr Annie Campanile: One difficult relationship can make leaving a job you love feel like the only way to get relief. But when relief is the only thing you can think about, you risk making a decision that you will regret. In this episode, nursing executive Miriam Dowling Schmitt and I will show you how to get relief without losing what really matters to you.

Welcome to Drama Free Teams, the show for leaders who care deeply and want their teams to thrive without the drama. I'm your host, Dr. Annie Campanile. Let's make your team drama-free.

Dr Annie Campanile: Today I'm continuing my conversation with Miriam Dowling Schmitt, a nursing executive who began her career in the intensive care unit and now leads perioperative services for a level one trauma center.

Healthcare brings together nursing leaders, physician leaders, and operational leaders who all can carry different responsibilities and might have really different perspectives when everyone wants [00:01:00] the best for patients. Can you talk a little bit about how the relationships that you build across those groups affect the way that you handle tension and conflict?

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: I think what's really interesting about healthcare is the intensity of the situations that we're put in, and also what can be the intensity of the relationships.

So I think about when I was a new nurse in the intensive care unit, literally called Intensive. Mm-hmm. The way the unit was set up was like a close little circle with the patient rooms on the outside and the charting area and the medication room in the middle. So naturally, the people who are working would congregate in the middle, and we didn't have separate nursing computers, physician computers.

There was one special computer for the respiratory therapist, but we were, all together. What would happen was naturally you would, go out to your little area, take care of the patient, and then come back and be together. In those moments of downtime, there was, of course, very natural conversation, and [00:02:00] you would just share things about your life.

Hmm. You would get a phone call from your spouse or share a picture of your child or something else. So there was this constant opportunity to get to know each other.

It was so beautiful. And the relationships that I was able to have with the people that I worked with as a young nurse have carried me forward in my entire career, and I feel like it is so powerful.

 There are a number of attending physicians, or the most experienced physicians in the hospital, who are, I don't know, 20, 30 years older than me. Really not a lot in common besides the fact that we've been in really intense situations together, but then also had sort of downtime to just talk and get to know each other.

Mm-hmm. And the amount of trust that was created in those situations has carried forward.

 I see those same physicians, [00:03:00] nurse practitioners, respiratory therapists, everyone in other situations now. A lot of us have gone on to leadership roles, or we even just see each other in the hallway, and there's all these small conflicts around the hospital.

 We will make eye contact with each other and immediately understand the intent of that person in a very different way than if it was someone that I had never met before.

It's amazing when I am leading a big change I can more quickly get through it if that is someone that I worked with clinically or have had that sort of intense time with. So, for example, I lead perioperative services right now. I find it very easy to move through conflicts with our anesthesia and trauma colleagues because I know so many of them.

Mm-hmm. I know how they work. I just get their mindset. There are other groups that have never run in the same circles with me, and I'm just like, "I don't [00:04:00] understand. Why are you acting this way? Why are you so intense?" And I don't have that same unspoken trust with them, even just on my own side. I don't assume any sort of positive intent from them. 

Dr Annie Campanile: Mm-hmm. 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: The same way that I do from a trauma surgeon that I worked with 20 years ago. Hmm. 

Dr Annie Campanile: I'm glad you used that term, assume positive intent.

What I just heard you say gives it a different meaning for me. It sounds like you don't have to go through a process of saying, "I assume- It's just there

you have a positive intent." You know them well enough to know their intent. 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: Yep. 

Dr Annie Campanile: That's an important nuance, I think, because a lot of times I hear from clients or from others to say, "It's so important to assume positive intent." I agree with that, but at the same time- It's hard. It is hard, and I would say it's impossible in that moment when you're triggered.

Mm-hmm. When your fight or flight response is active, your logical mind is not available. And so for us to expect people to then say, "Hmm, that person really just pissed me off, but I'm gonna assume a positive intent," [00:05:00] even if they had a positive intent, the impact of their communication was still the same.

Christopher: Mm-hmm. 

Dr Annie Campanile: I loved your story about how these long-term relationships have helped you to thrive as a person, as a member of the team, and also to resolve conflict. 

Mm-hmm.

Because we lose so many people so quickly in healthcare. What is one tidbit of advice or word of encouragement you can give to listeners who are early in their career, who are considering whether or not it's gonna get better? What's one thing you can share with them to give them some hope or to give them a piece of advice?

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: Early in my career, I made a lot of mistakes around trying to understand if I was truly happy in my job and if there was something better out there.

There's always going to be something disappointing about my reality. Is that okay or is that, is it too much and it's not okay? As an example, when I had a leadership position in one of our intensive care units , I had a really hard time getting along with one of the other [00:06:00] leaders in that environment. I felt constantly disappointed.

I thought she should be doing her job differently and better and I got so frustrated I left probably the best job I've ever had- 

Dr Annie Campanile: Wow ... 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: because I couldn't figure out how to live in that reality. In hindsight I saw there were two other leaders in our group who did figure out how to live in that reality and they were just able to thrive in an amazing way and persevere and that really hard leader eventually left.

Dr Annie Campanile: Yeah. 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: And they were able to stay and do great things and I had also left and I was so sad and it took me years to get over- Mm ... not being in that environment anymore. I think if I had had more maturity and I was more introspective I could've seen how I had so many wonderful feelings about being in that intensive care unit that this one person shouldn't have had that much control over me.

Dr Annie Campanile: I have a question about this because it makes me think [00:07:00] about survival responses- 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: Mm-hmm ... 

Dr Annie Campanile: and how that drives our actions. This is such a good example again of how the logical brain doesn't necessarily lead the way- Mm-hmm ... when we're in those situations. So looking back, Are you aware of having any kind of "I gotta get out of here" kind of energy?

Or was it more like, "This is just not gonna get better, why bother?" Or 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: I definitely had some I've gotta get out of here energy. I made a series of mistakes out of frustration, and it really made the, the feeling of being in that unit so much different than it had been before. And all of a sudden, this comfortable, wonderful place that I loved so much didn't feel comfortable anymore.

But it was because of my actions, and I didn't fully understand it. And so I was just like, "I gotta do something different." Yeah. "I, I can't do this anymore. I don't wanna be around this particular person, and now these people don't like me because of this thing that I said and this thing that I did. I gotta get out of here."

Dr Annie Campanile: Mm-hmm. 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: And I just didn't have the [00:08:00] ability to sit with that in the moment. I didn't have the ability to reflect. I didn't have the ability to apologize. I had no idea what vulnerability was.

Dr Annie Campanile: Yeah, of course. 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: I was such a young, new leader. 

Dr Annie Campanile: Yeah. 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: And I just knew, "I am unhappy. You need to be happy. This is the thing that's making you unhappy.

Leave this place." 

Dr Annie Campanile: So this is a great synopsis of the Drama-Free Communication Iceberg. 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: Mm-hmm. 

Dr Annie Campanile: Right? 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: Yep. 

Dr Annie Campanile: The words, the actions, the reactions. What's above the surface is what most of us respond to because it's so loud. 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: Yep. 

Dr Annie Campanile: And yet what's below the surface is what really is feeding that survival response and feeding the self-protective behaviors like, "I gotta get out of here."

Yep. 

So I'm gonna name the four things below the surface, and I'm really curious if any of these resonate with what was going on for you at that time. 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: Mm-hmm. 

Dr Annie Campanile: First is deeper feelings, unresolved feelings from previous events, whether related to that particular setting or not. 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: Mm-hmm. 

Dr Annie Campanile: Second is unmet needs.

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: Definitely that. 

Dr Annie Campanile: [00:09:00] Mm-hmm. Unexpressed wants. 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: Definitely that. 

Dr Annie Campanile: And finally, assumptions. 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: Definitely that. 

Dr Annie Campanile: Okay. Yep. Yes. And so-

For those listening, if you can relate to this, which I imagine everyone can- 

Mm-hmm ... 

don't despair. Don't despair. And you don't have to wait 20 years to gain these skills. This is why I have the four fundamentals of drama-free communication. Get to know your survival response. What does it feel like in your body when you f- you're like, "I gotta get out of here," or, "I just can't take this person anymore"?

It's not a bad thing. Maybe you do need to get out of there. Mm-hmm. But pausing just to take one deep breath. You mentioned having the ability to sit with that discomfort. That is challenging. 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: Mm-hmm. 

Dr Annie Campanile: It's challenging for me now as well when I go into that fight or flight - mode Oh, I have to take such a deep breath.

In fact, I give myself permission to sigh and to yawn 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: Annie is a sigher. We know this. 

Dr Annie Campanile: Oh, I am. I love it. I love it. Yes. And often somebody who [00:10:00] doesn't know me- 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: Mm-hmm ... 

Dr Annie Campanile: will hear me sigh and say, "Oh, stop that," or, "You shouldn't do that." Mm-hmm. And I, I have a practice now of saying, "Oh, I love to sigh." Mm-hmm. It's so good for us.

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: Yep. 

Dr Annie Campanile: Because it gives me permission- Yep ... and also perhaps it's a little bit of a nudge to them, like, "It's actually okay-" 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: Yep ... "

Dr Annie Campanile: if you need to sigh."

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: Sometimes I call it a deep cleansing breath. 

Dr Annie Campanile: Oh, deep cleansing breath. I 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: was walking out of a hard meeting with a, colleague of mine y- yesterday, day before, and we left the meeting and he went

And I said, "Wow, that was a really good deep cleansing breath." And he didn't even notice that he had done it. He was like- Yeah ... "What, me? Huh? Huh?" 

Dr Annie Campanile: Yes, 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: that- I was like, "Yeah. No, you just had to release tho- those feelings." 

Dr Annie Campanile: Oh, that's so beautiful because it's so affirming. 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: Yeah. 

Dr Annie Campanile: It's so affirming. And I, I didn't know that I sighed until people pointed it out, but- 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: Mm-hmm

Dr Annie Campanile: the way they pointed it out was many years ago was- Yeah ... "What's the matter? Are you mad? Something wrong?" Yep. That's something that a- anyone listening can do as a gift to someone else. 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: Yep. 

Dr Annie Campanile: If you hear them sigh or you hear them yawn at work, instead of saying, "Don't do that," say, [00:11:00] "Wow, that was a really great deep cleansing breath."

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: Did you know that dogs yawn when they're stressed? 

Dr Annie Campanile: I did know that. 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: It can be... There's this woman who wrote a very little book called Calming Signals- 

Dr Annie Campanile: Oh ... 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: about dogs specifically, and it is something I read when I was probably 14, and it never left me. And so sometimes what someone will see a dog yawning, and they're like, "Oh, that dog is just tired."

And oftentimes they're trying to get you to calm down- 

Dr Annie Campanile: Are they? ... 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: when they are taking that deep breath. 

Dr Annie Campanile: Because yawns are contagious? '

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: Cause yawns are contagious. And somehow they know that? Dogs are so smart. 

Dr Annie Campanile: Oh, they're so brilliant. I just love 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: it. 

Dr Annie Campanile: Yes. Yep. So again, for folks who are listening who are feeling overwhelmed or thinking, "I don't know if I can stay in my-" 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: Mm-hmm

Dr Annie Campanile: "career path," whether it's healthcare or something else, if you can start to practice these skills of pausing, interrupt the brain's urgent driving message of, "I must do something dramatically different." 

Mm-hmm. 

Interrupt it for a moment. Take a breath. Every episode of this podcast has a, a [00:12:00] very brief 90-second exercise included for this reason.

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: Mm-hmm. 

Dr Annie Campanile: Because it takes repetition, and I, I personally, as you know, I like to simplify. I don't want a huge complex thing to do. I just wanna know, in 90 seconds, what can I do to help? 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: Yep. 

Dr Annie Campanile: So calming our nervous system just a bit, it can then allow us to have a little bit more clear thought- 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: Mm-hmm ... 

Dr Annie Campanile: to ask for help, or to take - another deep breath." 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: Yep. 

Dr Annie Campanile: Small things 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: I think what you say about asking for help is really important because I thought that I was getting help during that time. I had this really great supervisor who said, "I see you're really valuable to the organization.

I'm gonna create another job for you so we don't lose you." That is really nice. And she created a job for me outside of this critical care environment. I realize now that I saw that as a gift, and it was, but it also would've been really great if I had had the ability to speak up and say, "I actually really, really love being in this ICU.

How can I [00:13:00] get help to figure out how to stay here?" Because when I asked for help to deal with this conflict that I had, the response that I got was, "You need to talk with her directly." 

Dr Annie Campanile: Mm-hmm. 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: And I didn't have the skills to do that effectively. Mm-hmm. I think that if I had had the kind of coaching that I have had now, I would've been able to work through it in a different way.

Dr Annie Campanile: Yeah. Yeah, it's such a good example of how rare it is for anyone- Mm-hmm ... including leaders, to actually know how to support others and coach them through resolving conflict or even holding difficult conversations. 

Yep. 

And I think it's fabulous that you are continually building your skill- 

Mm-hmm

because you are mentoring other leaders who are growing in their abilities. 

Mm-hmm. 

And the higher you go up the hierarchy, the more intense, in a different way, meetings, decisions, relationships can become. 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: Yeah. 

Dr Annie Campanile: So I imagine you're using those skills all the time. 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: Yeah. 

Dr Annie Campanile: And refining them. [00:14:00] 

Miriam Dowling-Schmitt: Yeah. Constantly, because I don't get it right every time.

Dr Annie Campanile: To be honest, none of us do, and that's okay. We're not robots, we're human, and human communication requires learning. It requires curiosity and forgiveness, and that's part of the beauty of it. I really appreciate how honest and how vulnerable you've been in sharing your stories with our listeners.

Now, before we move into today's 90-second activity, I want to pull together three really valuable insights that Miriam offered. First, notice when you feel an urgency to escape a situation that isn't physically threatening to you.

If your safety is truly at risk, yes, that's a good, instinct to follow and escape. However, our survival brain can trick us into feeling like a conflict that is persistent or a tension point between someone we don't get along [00:15:00] with has the same kind of threat. So you might feel anxious energy in your body when you think about going to work, or you might be distracted by thoughts of resigning and thinking, "Oh, that would be such a big relief."

Miriam called it, "I gotta get out of here" energy. The ninety-second activity I'm going to share with you in a moment will help you to notice when you feel that sense of urgency so that it doesn't cause you to make a decision that you might later regret.

The second insight that I loved from Miriam is look beneath the surface. In hindsight, Miriam recognized that unmet needs, unexpressed wants, and assumptions were all below the surface when she left the ICU. If she had been able to identify and address those at the time, she might have stayed in the job that she loved so much.

And if you want help identifying what's beneath your own workplace conflict, register for my free Drama Free Leadership Starter Kit. In the kit, I walk you through the four fundamentals [00:16:00] of drama-free communication with a full workshop and a 34-page workbook. You'll find the link in today's show notes.

And third, be specific about the help that you want. Although Miriam asked for help and her leader did her best to provide support, transferring Miriam to a new job that took Miriam out of the ICU, left her deeply sad, and it took years for her to get over not being there anymore.

The more clear that you can be with your request for help, the easier it will be for someone to understand what kind of help would be most useful.

Now, I promised that today's 90-second activity would help you notice urgent energy that might drive you to escape a situation prematurely. And here it is.

When you notice you're feeling more anxious or you feel that, "Ah, I've gotta get out of here," kind of energy, even though this seems counterintuitive, pause.

The first thing to do is pause. We [00:17:00] have to help ourselves think of this, because in the moment, our survival response could be making it very difficult to think clearly. So pausing, taking one full breath, feeling your feet on the floor, it can calm your survival response just a little bit so that it becomes easier for you to think more clearly and ask yourself, " What's really going on for me right now?"

Pausing to notice that sense of urgency to escape a situation can actually help you empower yourself to address the underlying issue and to protect what really matters to you.

Next time I'll be joined by Anna Miller, a surgeon and physician leader who is constantly refining her ability to provide support when others are in conflict without removing their responsibility for resolving it.

Until then, I'm Dr. Annie Campanile, reminding you that conflict is natural and drama is optional. See you next [00:18:00] time!