The Dangerous Trap of Over-Functioning and High-Functioning Anxiety with Mattie Cummins

Are you constantly rewarded for being the 'strong one' while your nervous system is quietly falling apart? In this episode, we explore the mask of overfunctioning and why society claps for symptoms of burnout. Mattie Cummins joins us to discuss how to break the cycle of high-functioning anxiety and stop the generational hand-down of shame. We delve into the science of why your body keeps the score and how to finally start living for yourself instead of performing for others. Discover how to transition from a life of 'doing' to a life of 'being' while embracing the messy reality of growth and aging. 

What You'll Learn: 

• The difference between being a high-achiever and an overfunctioner
• Why your children are the best barometers for your internal healing
• Scientific techniques like handwriting and verbal processing to reset your brain
• How to navigate the grief and physical changes that come with menopause and aging
• The role of boundaries in protecting your peace and reclaiming your joy. 

Stop performing and start living the most authentic version of your life today. #vulnerability #overfunctioning #mentalhealth #womenshealth #letgetnaked

Mattie Cummins is a counselor, coach, and the founder of Cerebrations LLC. With over 25 years of deep-rooted experience in social work and clinical practice, Mattie specializes in supporting individuals navigating the complexities of anxiety and major life transitions, as well as empowering people with disabilities to find meaningful purpose and employment. 

She guides her clients on a transformative journey to master the Art of Living, utilizing a "whole-listic" approach that integrates brain function with intentional living. Drawing from a diverse background in nonprofit leadership, systemic advocacy, education and coaching, Mattie offers a rare perspective on human resilience. Her mission is to empower people to harness their innate beauty and inner strength, turning personal experience into a life defined by authenticity, creativity, and joy.

https://mattiecummins.com/

https://www.youtube.com/@joy.unleashed

https://www.facebook.com/calmingthechaoscollective

https://www.instagram.com/mattiecumminsmsw

https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattiecummins/

https://open.spotify.com/show/2Shh7nhXH3wHaYHfOXudyA

This podcast dives deep into real, raw topics—think vulnerability, triggers, and childhood trauma. But just so we're super clear: I’m not a licensed therapist, mental health professional, or anything close. I’m just a human sharing stories, lessons, and life hacks based on personal experience and a whole lot of curiosity.

So, while you might find some golden nuggets here, this is not therapy and should never replace professional mental health care. If you or someone you love is going through it, please—seriously—reach out to a licensed therapist or healthcare provider. You deserve the real deal.

Need Help Now?
Here are a few amazing resources:

·         988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline (U.S.): Call or text 988
·         NAMI HelpLine: 1-800-950-NAMI (6264) or nami.org/help
·         Therapy Directory: psychologytoday.com
·         Crisis Text Line: Text HOME to 741741 

The opinions expressed on this show are ours and ours alone—no official organizations are responsible for what we say (or how much we overshare).

This show is proudly produced at PS Studios — learn more https://www.psstudios.co

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey everyone, I'm Anne. Welcome to the Let's Get Naked podcast, where we dive deep into vulnerability. In this space, we'll explore what triggers us, uncover the patterns holding us back, and discover how to take charge of our own growth. If you're ready to dig in, be vulnerable, and face the tough stuff, then buckle up. It's time to get naked. The mask of overfunctioning is one of the most socially rewarded forms of self-destruction on the planet. And women, oh, we hand out trophies for it. The woman that handles everything, the woman that never breaks, the woman that keeps showing up while emotionally duct taped together with caffeine, cortisol, people-pleasing, and a fake ass, I'm fine. We call her strong, we call her dependable, we call her a good mother, a good wife, a leader, a caretaker. Meanwhile, her nervous system is in the corner lighting itself on fire. Because somewhere along the way, overfunctioning became an identity. Not healing, not peace, not joy, performance. And the scary part is a lot of people don't even realize they're anxious because society claps for the symptoms overachieving, overgiving, overthinking, over-caretaking, over-producing, over-explaining, over-functioning, over-everything. We've normalized exhaustion so hard that people think a burnout is a personality trait. And eventually the body starts collecting receipts, heart palpitations, panic attacks, chronic fatigue, autoimmune issues, numbness, rage, disconnection. Because your body will eventually say what your mouth refuses to. And maybe the most dangerous part of all of this is what happens when our kids are watching. Because children don't just listen to our words, but they absorb our nervous systems. So if a mother is constantly living in survival mode while calling it being responsible, what exactly are we teaching the next generation about safety? That love means depletion, that worth comes from sacrifice, that rest has to be earned, that emotions are inconvenient. That's why I wanted today's conversation. Because I think there are a lot of people walking around wearing the mask of overfunctioning and calling it life. Let's get into it. Today I'm stripping it all off with Maddie Cummins. Welcome to the show, Maddie. I'm gonna let you kind of give us a the 30,000-foot view of what you bring to the table because there was a lot in your bio, and I didn't want to fumble over the words or mess it up, but welcome to the show. I look forward to having our conversation today.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

Thanks, Ann. I'm really happy to be here, and I'm really happy to hear your intro because I think you said so many things that we just don't pay attention to, and getting that information out is really important. Um, yeah, so I am the owner and CEO of Cerebrations. Um, Cerebrations is a coaching, counseling, and vocational rehabilitation agency. Um I started my career in working, I'm a social worker by background, and so I started my career working with people with brain injuries. Um I became very fascinated by the brain. It's something we take for granted. We don't know what happens to it. It's all this stuff's happening up there, but we're not always sure what's going on and how it really impacts our bodies. And so over the course of that life, and I still work with that population, it's still a passion of mine, but um, I started into private practice and coaching for an and specifically around women with anxiety. I think I resonate with that population because I have anxiety. And exactly as you were saying in the in the intro, um, my anxiety was showing up as overfunctioning. I have it all. I'm running, I was I was a supervisor at the age of 25. I was rewarded for that over and over. Um, I didn't even recognize that I had that level of anxiety until I had my son. So that's what really started my journey with um with understanding that it's not the words, as you said, it's not the words that you say, it's what you do in your actions, and kids soak that up. Um so I call my son my barometer. Yes, oh, that's beautiful. He um and he now is almost 16, he'll be 16 in two weeks, and he is the most emotionally intelligent child on the planet. And if I can give him nothing else, I don't care about his grades. Yep. I don't care about his, you know, he will figure all the other stuff out. But for him to be able to tell people how he feels and look at someone and say, I'm not comfortable with this, is to me the best gift I can give him.

SPEAKER_00 4:37

I I applaud you. I just want to interrupt you for a quick second and just applaud that because I think so many people are focused on the wrong things. Uh I have a 19-year-old who has been had a front row seat at my healing journey over the last eight and nine years in really big ways, right? Because during COVID we lived out of town, and so we were in the car together for an hour each day at a minimum as we were driving back and forth to school, and agreed, like just sharing all of those things with him. The emotional intelligence component, I think, is a superpower. And I think, you know, in our generation of older adults, we've missed that because of the way that we um were raised for a lot of us, uh, and just uh various reasons, but you raising your son with that being at the forefront, kudos.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

Thank you. Kudos. It's been a journey, yeah. I I'm really proud of him, obviously. But I mean, I think there's um there's something so beautiful about allowing your children to say to you, I mean, he'll tell me, Are you tired because you're micromanaging right now? And and instead of me reacting and feeling shame about it and feeling it's it's my my signal of, oh, wait a minute, like I am doing that. So why am I doing that and what do I need to do differently? So it's it's been um that to me is my biggest um gift into this world is giving that to my son.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

Yeah. Just fantastic. Also, just you I want to highlight you saying not getting defensive about that. You know, so many people, I think so many parents think they're here to teach their children, and like there has to be that level of they can't, you know, question or talk back or any of that kind of stuff, and not in a disrespectful way. I don't mean that, but I think that if we allow it, our our children are our biggest teachers. Yes. And I think that that's how it's meant to be. Uh, and so being able to come from a place where you allow them the freedom to be able to do that. Our our kiddos are way more intuitive and way more in touch with themselves than we ever were as children. They just have so many, um their skill set is just so different. It is, you know, and it's fun to be able to watch and to um learn in tandem next to them. If you'll if you'll allow yourself to do that, I think it's really powerful.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

Yeah, it's you know, and I think it's one of the things I always um I hear their you know, moms talk a lot a lot about is their kids' anxiety. And and and it's just yes, this generation has a lot of anxiety. There's a lot of stuff going on that we didn't have to deal with that in you know increases that anxiety, but there's so much of it that's coming from us, yeah, and we don't know.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

Um, because we think we're hiding it, right? It's that mask that you talked about. We think we're able to hide it, and that's exactly what happened. My son, when he was four or five, we never used the word any value. I'm really big on value words, like value words that can can induce shame, like bad, you know, stupid, all those kinds of words. And um the he was hiding under the table, he'd get in trouble, he'd go hide under the table or hide under the desk. And then he started saying like he was a bad kid and he was stupid. And I'm like, where is this coming? Because I never ever would have ever said those words to him. Yeah, and it that's what it made me stop and think about. Like, what am I projecting into this? Because if the child's doing that, it's in the environment. And it took a lot of courage for me to stop and go, wait a minute, this is coming from me. And it took a lot of heartbreak to be able to do that and then start that journey of where is that coming from, recognizing where it's coming from, but then doing something different. And that's what I think people, especially women, get stuck in.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

I think you're absolutely right. And I just love that you are willing to share that with us because I think um it is really brave to turn it around on yourself and say, what am I bringing to the table? Because it isn't just their anxiety. Like you said, I think uh I think in this life we mirror for one another, and especially in our and in our core families, you know, our families of origin and our in our immediate families, excuse me. I think we do absolutely mirror, and so being able to use that and then say, okay, what am I going to do with that? Right. Very brave. Thank you. So so what was step one for you? Or maybe share with me how you even, you know, how you realize that. Like, yes, he's bringing that to your attention, and then you kind of were looking in the mirror, going, okay, what am I, what do I need to do? It's not correct. Yeah, what it's not correcting his behavior, it's correcting my own.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

I think step one for me was to actually go to some pretty deep counseling. Um, and the the trick that often comes in is um is is my family looks functioning from the outside. Um I, you know, their perspectives are their perspectives, so I don't share a lot about that journey, but but there, you know, one of the things I tell my clients, and I realize myself, is my parents were raised by depression parents. So there's all these lessons that get sent down. And and the hope is every generation kind of gets a little bit differently. But my mom has a lot of anxiety, and so that was I had to stop and go, where is all this coming from? And why am I repeating the things that I heard my parents say, the things you know we say we would never ever say.

SPEAKER_02 9:21

Of course.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

And I think that tells me, I started recognizing those are reactions. Like that's not me making a decision, that is a reaction. And so I started taking my own journey of the brain and what I understood about the brain and really stopping and going, okay, well, wait a minute, why is my brain doing this? Because this is my brain, it's doing these things. And so I think just deconstructing one, why, but then also going, what can I do differently?

SPEAKER_02 9:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:45

And part of that journey for me, and this is what the beauty of what I love to walk through with my clients, is a recognition often what's going on in my body first, because you know, you mentioned earlier, and I think it's really important. Our generation didn't talk about emotions. I I start with clients, that's the first place we start, and they cannot name one emotion they're feeling except overwhelmed, is usually the one. Um, but we also that is that is how our brain is designed to mask what we're feeling because it's uncomfortable, so we don't like it. And so I really started in my body. Like my body, when I am in that place of anxiety, my chest burns. I start scrunching my my shoulders up. And so I started this training process of recognizing that first, and then being able to decrease what was going on in my brain so I could do something different. Um, so our brains really, when we go into that space, it's it, and we, you know, we know these terms, fight, flight, or freeze and fawn as well. That's a reaction. And so um, when that happens, our executive function, our frontal lobe, shuts down, and we go into survival mode. Um, that means we're not making decisions. And I think our brains were designed in a beautiful way to do those things, but our society has really disrupted that. And so to help me and to help my son, even now, I mean, we we we stop and go, okay, I'm reacting here, and those are the words we use. And give me a minute, let me go figure out what's going on, and then I come back.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

Yeah. So I think that giving a minute is huge, right? I think there's that, there's there's power in that pause, you know, of something. And I think that that's really big. And and people, you know, I I I hit that one home a lot just with emotional intelligence. It's like if you don't feel like um you're developed emotionally intelligently wise, just stop for a second when something makes you feel a certain type of way, any type of way, it doesn't matter what it is, do not react. Take a second, count to 10. Maybe counting to 10 is literally counting to 10, maybe it's 10 minutes, maybe it's 10 days, maybe it's telling somebody, hey, I need a minute to be able to process this or check in with myself. Um, but yes, you know, starting with the body is really important. I think we haven't given it the um the credit that it needs, and also the weight to understand like it's a really powerful thing. We've given so much to our minds, you know, and and your mind is your mind lies, you know. Definitely, it is right. It's and so it's like the it's like there's that one movie where um, you know, it's that horror movie where it's you know, the call is coming from inside the house or whatever. That's what I feel like every time my mind doesn't work for me. I'm like, the call is coming from inside the house, you know. I'm like, I'm literally sabotaging myself, and because that's been normalized so much. You know, I see all of these men and women out there who do not have control over um just running their own lives because their mind is just dry humping them up and down their whole life, and they don't have control over things, and it's like they don't know where to start to be able to get control. And so I think checking in with your body is really important. You know, we we live in a society of numbers where we just numb out, right? We we numb and push it down and numb and push it down and numb. But it's like our emotions are our superpower, that's our compass, you know, and so when people are like, oh, I'm not emotional, and I came from the same thing, right? My mom was very emotional, uh, not from a no offense, mom, but not from an emotionally intelligence place, right? Like she just she cried all the time. She and it looked messy to me, you know. So when I was growing up, I was definitely on the boy's side of that. I was a tomboy, I was the masculine, I spent my entire career in construction. You know, you mentioned um the performing and being, you know, where you were at 25 and all of that. Huge slaps on, you know, pats on the back about, oh my God, she can handle so much. And then what that does for you is then you start producing based on that, because that's where you're getting the, you know, the crumbs. I always called those the crumbs, because I shouldn't need outside validation, but I did for a lot of years because I just didn't know how to give it to myself. I didn't know, you know, all of the tools that I do now, good news, bad news, you know. Um, but but being able to really realize that we have everything that we need inside and we don't need to go outside for validation, but we do. And we're a society of, oh my God, you've got it all together, or people like go around with this badge of honor. I hear women a lot like, oh, I'm so busy. And it's almost like this contest. It's like this weird contest among women of like who's the busier. Uh and so I think we should just start something completely different, be like, oh, I don't have anything going on.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

That's what I said. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

It's like, you know, when I when I get when I get to the a weekend is coming up and I'm look at the calendar, I'm like, oh, I don't have anything on my calendar. That's a flex for me. That is where I've gotten. And I used to not be like that. And I think part of it too was I was afraid to um be with myself. I was afraid to be in the quiet, and I think a lot of people are. It's like, what does that even look like? Because we have so much noise coming at us all the time, not only from physical things, but then people's way of unwinding is they pick up their phone and they get into social media. And it's like, are you crazy? That's not how you unwind. Like, we're that's not that's not good for your nervous system at all.

SPEAKER_01 14:41

You know, my mom, um, when I was 20, probably how I was 25, um, my mom said something to me that was sounded this was I thought was the stupidest thing ever. She said, When you're ready to be alone is when you're ready to be with other people. And I, of course, at 25 thought that was just ridiculous. And then later I'm like, oh my gosh, like what wisdom is that? Because it's so huge. Because if you can't be alone, and one of the things I I find with women, especially, I mean, men have a different way their brain works, but women, when they get emotionally uncomfortable, they need to do. Yeah. Either that's control someone, control my calendar, control this, but they need to, I need to go do something. I it's this doing. And I consider it like almost like a flight response of I can't sit in uncomfortableness, so I'm gonna go do something. And when you can get to a place where you can sit in that emotional uncomfortableness is when you're really healing because that allows you to just grieve and be sad and be okay with being uncomfortable. And it's not the mask of I've got it all together. I remember when I started um telling people, they'd say, How are you? And um, and I would say, I'm fine. And I stopped saying I was fine. And I didn't necessarily tell them everything, but I'd be like, you know what? I didn't sleep less on, and I'm just not in a good space. Sure. And it the shock on people's faces because I'm not perfect. But what I loved about that moment is it allowed them to see me as not perfect, then they're it's okay that they're not perfect to you.

SPEAKER_00 16:05

Yes. Yes. I think I think that's really important and exactly what you're saying. I think the more of us that do that, the more that it gives other people permission. I think it's why I find myself doing what I'm doing in this chapter of my life, because it's um, I get the feedback from people that you doing something gives me permission to be able to do that. Uh, because I don't think we're all supposed to have it together. I don't think we're supposed to do these masks and filters and things that make people think that I'm not crumbling on the inside. I crumble on the inside, you know. Um, and and and the your mom's a smart lady. That that's it. She is a brilliant lady. Yeah, it's like the the the being the being by yourself, you know, you're not ready to be around other people. Such wisdom. I I spent, you know, I'm I'm a recovering control freak. And uh and and I look at that now, and especially as the more I learn about emotions and the brain and all of the things, I never sat down. And I remember, you know, even my like my best friend will say now, she's like, God, you just were exhausting to be around because I didn't know how to be by myself. Um, that's been a big journey over the last handful of years of just really getting comfortable with myself and then finding out I really like myself, you know, and I prefer my own company over anybody else's every day of the week. And how lovely is that to have, yeah, it is. So, you know, if you're out there listening and you're thinking, what does that even look like having alone time? If that makes you uncomfortable to even think about, um, because that's where I was in my in my journey before I started kind of peeling back the layers of the onion. Um, get curious about that. I I suggest highly getting curious about just why do you feel uncomfortable about being alone and then start digging in from there because it is the most beautiful thing ever, but you do feel the emotions, right? Like you do alone alone where it's quiet and you don't have all of the things. You know, I highly recommend people to journal or to just figure out. I think that's um really, really powerful to be able to take that time to do it.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

Yeah, I think that journaling is really important. And I don't, you know, I don't put pressure on people for journaling because I I'm not a good journaler, but I am a good thinker when I journal. So that's and and one of the things I always talk to people about is actually handwriting it. Yeah. Because they want to do it on their phones, or they want to, but the thing about handwriting is it forces the two parts of your brains to work together. And so the creativity and then the the the you know, the the science part of it really makes you stop and analyze. And I think it's just a really important skill that we're losing is to handwrite things.

SPEAKER_00 18:21

I I agree with you, and I do that too. I every day I journal and it's fun because you know, I think I had a hard time kind of getting into the habit of doing it, and now that I've been doing it for a couple of years, I can't even imagine not doing it. And it doesn't have to look any certain type of way. I think a lot of times people have a hard time either meditating or journaling or reading a book or whatever that looks like because they have certain rules. It's like, well, if I don't read more than you know, 30 minutes, it doesn't count, or if I don't journal in a pretty way or whatever, it's like journal on a bar napkin if you need to, you know, make it drawing instead of um instead of actual words. You know, you can you can just doodle. You don't, it doesn't have to be a certain anything. There's no rules. If you're meditating, it's like it doesn't have to be for 20 minutes. Sit down for two minutes and just be quiet. Um, just observe what thoughts are in your brain. You know, people think that they're supposed to get their brain to shut off, and it's like that's the that's not how it works. Like it just news flash for everyone. That's not how it works. But being the observer of your mind when it's doing that, it helps you separate and also in a such a beautiful way realize that your mind is a tool. You know, you are not your mind. Yep. Um, because I think a lot of people, that's where we get twisted up, is our minds just, I mean, I watch as these hamster wheels and I I work with women specifically and men, but women specifically were the things that are running around in their head, and I'm like, oh my God, girls, we gotta stop doing that, ladies. We gotta stop doing that. We're our own worst enemy. We are sabotaging ourselves in big and small ways all day. It starts from the morning time, and we just carry around this device that we can compare and beat ourselves up, and we're not doing enough. And oh, we didn't, we forgot the gluten-free, sugar-free, dairy-free cookies for the for the you know, sports thing. Just the amount of things that we have set ourselves up at to fail is it hurts my soul for where we are in society.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

And I think it's the level of shame that all of those things flee up. You know, you just um I, you know, I think unintentionally many of us grew up in shamefuls. Very much so. And um that shame, it's not just, oh shoot, I forgot that. It is a, oh my gosh, I forgot that. Therefore, I'm a bad mother. Yeah. Therefore, I'm, you know, there's always this value that that is put onto that about how we're we're not a good person. I mean, that's where it all coils down to. And I just, it's heartbreaking. I mean, it's heartbreaking to hear that. And it's and it's heart heartbreaking to even watch women, you know, in their 40s and 50s still struggling with this because I think there's such a freedom and being able to, you know, I turned 55 this year and being able to be 55 and recognize all the things and be okay that I'm not always okay. Like I have two friends that um they know my signals. And if I start saying I'm okay, that's my response. How are you? I'm okay. Their question is, what does that even mean? Because they know that's my that's my coping mechanism to start masking that I'm really not, I'm not, I'm not okay, but I'm gonna let you know, not let you know that information. So to have those barometers in your life, I think is is really important.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

I love the word barometer as you've used it for both your son and also your friends, because I do think that that's um really important for people that have close-up spots at your table of life. Um, you know, you hitting on the shame also, I think, when you talk about the freedom for that. I was I was raised with a truckload of shame, you know, very organized religion, very shame was handed out like it was like it was limitless. Yeah, you know, and I got to the point where I was, you know, early 40s before I started tackling that. And Brene Brown was huge. She's amazing, she's literally amazing. Um shout out to Brene. She just so so honored to be able to read that woman's work and happy that she has been, you know, dedicated her life to really working through that because um the shame component of it that that to me was where it started of just kind of pulling that yarn on the sweater. Of like who am I and where is this all coming from? Because I don't think we're meant to come from that place, but it's definitely just rooted in fear. Were you raised with a bunch of shame as well?

SPEAKER_01 22:09

Yeah, yes, I was. I mean, and I think I was raised in Southern Baptist. I wasn't raised in a bubble belt. So even without my family, there was a lot of cultural shame that that came up with that. And um, and I think it just like I said, I, you know, I feel like my parents did the best they could with what they had available. Um, but yes, it was you've got to have straight A's. You've got to, and just so we're clear, I did not. But um, and I was okay with that. But my parents, you know, I you were grounded if you didn't have A's and B's. You didn't, and I remember my mom actually when my son started school and I was kind of lamenting about his grades. I remember her saying to me, please don't do what we did to you.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

And and put this value base on on how you're performing instead of who you are. And um, and I really appreciated her being able to turn that around for for me to give me that that guidance.

SPEAKER_02 22:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:55

Um, but that shame just it but then you internalize it, right? And that's where the perfection comes in. So you don't look like you just you look functioning because you're higher functioning, and those women don't even recognize that that's really what all that's about. Whereas, you know, you this you start getting exhausted from oh my gosh, I forgot to turn that in. It was five minutes late, and you start beating yourself up over it because you got that's inhuman. You can't be perfect, there is no such thing as perfection. And you know, you mentioned the control thing, and I think people, women do that with I'm a perfectionist. Like it's like it's a it's a good thing, and it's like it's not a good thing. Yeah, it's not a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

It's not a good thing. There's so many things that have been packaged to us in a way that's like, oh, this is great. Because I always thought because of the the high functioning, like, oh, this is excellent. I never I never sit down. I only need five hours of sleep, you know, like all of these things. Look how wonderful that is. And then we talk about the body keeps the score, the body will, the body carries the receipts, and if your if your mouth and your actions don't fix it, it will. And that's the stuff that scares you because especially as we get older in life, yeah, if you're not healthy, if you don't have your health, you don't you know. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter any of the things. You know, um, question that I have for you do you think uh in organized religion they realize how how massive the future therapy bills are that they're handing out?

SPEAKER_01 24:15

No, I I don't think so. And I, you know, I'm and I'm really heartbreaking and broken about all that because um, especially in our in our current society that we're in, um, I I just there is so much value in healing that they could provide. Yeah, but they don't. And because there's this shame cycle that they continue on. And and you know, and I was raised in an environment where um, you know, if you sinned, then you were a bad person.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

And you know, you there's a cli if you have a it's punishment. It's fear-based, it's it's very fear-based, and that keeps you from questioning, right? And one of the things that I realized um pretty early on when I we kind of reconnected with that is like if I can't question something, then I don't belong in that hundred percent. Um, and if people can't handle that questioning, then they can't really be genuine and be authentic, and therefore that's just not where I need to go. But yeah, the shame is is huge in that in that in that culture.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

You know, I I look at that and I think I love the community aspect of churches, right? I really I love that, and I think that we really need that in a, but maybe in a different way that isn't this um shame-based. I still I I every time I drive by a church, I have a hard time that they still exist. I know. I just do. I'm like, we haven't gotten that figured out yet. We're we're still going and giving them 10% of our money for them to make us feel like garbage.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

Yeah. Okay. And I think there are some that are trying to fix it. Yeah. Um, but I I just don't know how the the current churches can exist in that way because even though they are trying, I think they're starting to talk about mental health, it's it's not the same because um the because they're not addressing the the the core of what is it.

SPEAKER_00 25:50

Right, they're the they're the cause of the problem.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

You can't you can't talk about something that you gave and not not take accountability for it.

SPEAKER_01 25:57

And not to say, you know, it's so interesting because I was just watching a um, I was watching a video before I came in of a of a pastor that was talking about how the churches really hurt women. And I thought if that's what the church could be of accepting this is what we've done. And some accountability and practices have then it would then it might be different. But until it's just like with anything else that is that is traumatic, is that until you hear the accountability, you're not gonna keep going back because there's no reason for you to do that. You're just gonna be hurting yourself more.

SPEAKER_00 26:26

So yeah, and if you feel like you're doing it out of obligation, save your energy, save your energy. It's there's there's way better ways that you can plug in. You know, I'm working on this thing called the Anne project where I'm I'm working on figuring out ways to be able to build community that has nothing to do with anything other than just building community. Because it's so important. Because it really is, yeah. I feel like we find ourselves in these such divisive times right now, and everyone profits on that. And so they just continue to double down on um robbing you of your attention and your energy and your focus. And, you know, the the fear is rampant and just all of that. Everything is so fear-based, they prey on other people's fears, and it makes me sad for everybody because everyone is so scared to do anything right now. And it's like you guys realize that's not real life, right? Like, put down your phone, get outside, get outside the church doors where someone's not judging you for things that they don't have any business judging you for, right? Like, you know, I I I believe in my higher power as well, but he happens to live in here, not in some old building where, you know, old guys touch little boys.

SPEAKER_01 27:28

Right, right, right. It's just, and I do think that there's a lot of um spirit the spiritual abuse that goes through there. And um, and when you find something spiritually that connects and then it and then it leaves, it can leave a real hole, especially when it's not done in an appropriate way.

SPEAKER_02 27:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

Um, but I think the community is so important. I think women just they gravitate towards it, but then they have a hard time making um time for it. Yeah. Because again, you know, one of the things I always have um I always tell tell women is put out your to-do list, just write it down, and then is your stuff even on there? Right. Or is it at the bottom? Yeah. Because that's typically what happens, and so then it becomes everybody else's is more important than mine, and I think that's that's the case for community too. We will do all everything in our power to do play dates and get our kids, you know, with their friends and make sure they're in a community, but we don't do it for ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 28:19

Here's the deal: your life isn't going to magically fix itself. Nobody's coming to save you, but you can learn how to save yourself. That's what this book is. It's a no BS guide to stop outsourcing your happiness, stop making excuses, and start living with purpose. If you're tired of waiting for someday, consider this your wake-up call. Someday is today. Get your copy of the Life Hack Playbook on Amazon or on the podcast website, let's get nakedpodcast.com. Well, and I think putting yourself first, right, is so important. And I know to moms that sounds like it just screams inside of your body that that's wrong. Um, but I've done the research. Yeah. You know, not only on myself, but on other people in my in my circle. And what that was the really hard thing for me because that's a later, like that's in the last couple of years that I really said, I have to do this because I, you know, when when time would get cut on things, it was always my stuff that would get cut first. And then I would wonder why I'm, you know, go going around feeling like I'm out of gas all the time. Um, well, what you no one else is gonna fill my cup. That's the inside job, you know. So so being able to really realize I have to put my mask on first. And when I do that, everyone is better for it, you know. So even though it feels super selfish and like counterintuitive, it is absolutely the right move to take care of yourself first so that you can have the energy and the resources to be able to take care of the family and the kiddos and the work and like all of the other things. But if you just feel like you're gonna give, give, give from an empty cup and that's gonna work out well for you. It well, there's nothing to give. There's nothing to give, and also it doesn't work out well. I think we've all learned that in in some way or another, some harder than others. But I think that's really important for the mindset shift. Also, um, something else that was coming up for me, maybe we need to start a couple of like um support groups for people uh that don't have access or or whatnot to um therapy because it is expensive, and being able to have women be able to talk with one another so that they don't feel guilty about this stuff. Because I think in friend groups, we shame one another if they don't have enough stuff going on. It's almost like you're just passing it down to other people, even though we all know it's wrong. Right. We all know that what we were handed in that it is, it's the reaction. So really being able to pause and say, how are we gonna make a difference with this?

SPEAKER_01 30:37

Yeah, I think that's beautiful. And I think it's um, you know, there's something about um, and I think it's so interesting because I so I'm a social worker by trade. That's where I put all did all my energy was in, and I love social work. Um when I started doing counseling myself in my private practice, I avoided I've I've avoided groups like the plague my entire life because there's a vulnerability that happens that is really hard. It's very like it's when you're in one-on-one counseling, except at least for me, or even one-on-one coaching, I get to control the conversation and I'm really good at that. Like I that was part of that mask. And um, only when I went to counselors and coaches and said, Don't let me do this, like I'm really adept at it. Don't let me do this, did that did that process of healing really start happening? But when I was in groups, um, I had someone had asked me to join a group around um healing, and I was very resistant to it, but I did it, and it was the most amazing experience. And then I started leading groups because when you hear one person, just one person has to walk out in vulnerability, and it's like the dam opens, and it is the most amazing experience, but getting people to that point, and I am proof of that is so difficult, but it's just that one, it's just that one person, all it takes is one.

SPEAKER_00 31:51

Yeah, I I know that because I am that, yeah, right. Like I I realize that my vulnerability is my superpower. I I grew up thinking that that was weakness, uh, and then I just got brought to my knees in this life. I just got brought to my knees, and um really being able to figure that out and then also realize that when I did that, it gives other people permission as well. Right. And then having them share with me the impact that it has is what fuels me to do the stuff that I do. And um, it's hard and it's uncomfortable, and some days I don't want to, and all of those things. But I think um I just I I know that it's the most important thing. And so even when I don't feel like it, I do it anyways. Um, do you still have uh groups that you do that you host now or or coordinate now, or is that something that was just in the past?

SPEAKER_01 32:35

So that was in the past. I do um so one of the one of the programs I do is I do um is I have it's called the flourish framework and flourish collective. So I bring women together around this subject of that, not just because I think women also want to compartmentalize. I want to go fix this, I want to go fix that. And then all these other things are the reason you need to fix that anyway. Yes, yes, yes. So we spend we it that that is really around how do we um evaluate what's really going on and then how do we get different coping mechanisms, how do we do the life differently? Because it there is a there is joy there, right? And I think women just have lost their joy because they're chasing all these other things, so they don't have to look at why I am doing this. Agreed. Um, I'm huge in boundaries. Um I don't think women, I don't think anyone is typically taught boundaries. Right. And so um that's part of where we start is with boundaries, because just as you're talking, like you have to have boundaries with yourself to be able to say no to people and be okay with that. Because that shame cycle is you don't tell people no, right? I mean, I had friends that will, you know, I in fact one of them said something to me recently. She said, Well, you know, she just drops everything and comes, isn't that great? I'm like, no, that's not great. That's not, I mean, that's not if she can, if she has like, I have the time to do that now, or I need to do this, or I cannot come tomorrow. Like that to me is what really that real friendship is. But it's dropping everything isn't something that we should really um put up there as something that that we all should do.

SPEAKER_00 33:57

So well, and I and I watch it as it's it's just continued to be reiterated and and uh solidified by media, right? I was watching something the other day where it was this you know reality show, and these women are someone didn't come out to support somebody and she's like, she couldn't put come, you know, lock it up for to come out for an hour or two. And I'm thinking, no, she couldn't. Why why wouldn't we celebrate that? Like if my girlfriends say no, I don't have the bandwidth for that, and don't lie to me because I don't need a lie, I'm an adult, right? I I don't, I'm not in high school anymore, but I'm gonna play in that realm. So so you can just say, I don't have it in me for that today, and that's totally fine. And I and I applaud women for doing that, speaking their truth, but most of people in out in society do not. They they take it personally, somehow it's about them instead. And it's like we are all so far into our own egos that it's hard to be part of.

SPEAKER_01 34:48

This yes, because this narrative starts around um well, and and I, you know, there's there I prefer coaching to counseling just because I think the counseling is important because you have to get to the core of why. But the coaching actually helps you get to the other pieces of what to do now. And um, but one of the things we talk about is the the our how much our mind distorts the reality of what's really happening. Yes. And one of the exercises I do with women is I have them go through these cognitive distortions that is just a fancy word for we make things up in our head and and check off like that statement of you know, she couldn't come, so therefore, you know, I she doesn't like me or whatever. We go check up all the ways the mind distorts that, and it's shocking how many times and how much you can do that in one statement because you're so afraid that people don't love you. Right. And then it's like your worthiness is coming into question, like and it's it's just crude. And it's getting worse, and it's gonna be. But it's getting worse, and it's just and they just spin in that, they will spin in that for days. And I used to be that person, so I recognize it. And to be able to get out of that is such freedom. It is freedom. And I may spin in it for a minute because you know, that's the old neuron, it's gonna connect sometimes, but um, but you know, we work at creating new neurons so that you you can go back to the new one and go, wait a minute, no, this is I'm not doing this and moving on.

SPEAKER_00 36:14

So one way I heard someone describe that as you're kind of retraining your brain a little bit is you know, it's like when you go through the mud, your tire tracks leave this first one, and the first one through is hard. And then the next one is a little bit easier because that, you know, rut, and and like all the things, and as you keep going, it just gets easier and easier. And I was telling my my gal Casey this morning, I said, I was telling her about this whole mental strength component because she's really started locking in and working on that recently and is just having all of these aha moments about how how much freedom she has because she's not a slave to her own mind. And I remember when I started doing this work, you know, I was sitting at the vanity at my bathroom eight years ago, and I just I couldn't get my brain to stop. It just was doing all of that stuff, and it was literally making me crazy because I knew I understood the concepts, but I just couldn't get, I couldn't get purchase on it, you know, uh, I couldn't get traction. And so uh I I remember sitting there thinking, I have to do this because I cannot not do this, and it's going to be so amazing when I do. And then I remember years later looking back, going, I run, I run this, right? This is what freedom looks like to me. This is what joy is because my mind doesn't do that. And and yes, like you said, every once in a while something will still come up where I'll have to say it out loud, talk about it logistically. Okay, is this what this means? And for me, I, you know, one of the things that was super helpful for me is just talking about it out loud to myself, right? And I don't care that that makes me sound like a crazy person. Don't care. It's like I'm in the car or I'm by my house, you know, by at home by myself. And I would say, okay, let me run this back. So here's here's what your brain is doing to you right now. It's like she Sheila said she couldn't come over. Uh you could take that personally and whatever, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Wouldn't you want her to give you the same courtesy or whatever it was that you're telling yourself that you would want someone else advice that you would give to somebody else? Why would it be any different in your head? But we do, and I do think it's getting worse, and it's making me almost like um have this sense of urgency of being able to scream louder and I also have to keep myself calm because I'm very passionate about everything. But I look at all of these women and I'm like, ladies, we're we're struggling. And I love men and I have a calling for them as well in a different way. But it's like, I just, oh God, we just excuse the language, but mind fuck ourselves today with stuff.

SPEAKER_01 38:28

Yeah, and and something I think is so interesting about what you're saying, because I do the same thing. I I talk out loud and I and I talk to women about talking out loud and stuff. And one of the reasons is is our mind, I will say a lot, our mind is almost is smarter than our brain. And so when you talk out loud, it uses a different part of our brain to help process. And so you're not doing this internal, because that's the mind. That mind is that internal. Talking out loud gets the brain involved and it makes executive function come back online. And so there's actually a process happening where you process differently. And that's why it's so important that that we do that we journal, that we do, I mean, all of those things, because it forces the brain to come back online and not just your mind spinning.

SPEAKER_00 39:08

So that's a really lovely distinction. So the mind being different than the brain. Uh, I love that there's science behind me being a kooky old lady because I just felt like this is what it is, it's what it is. Because it actually was working for me. And so I was like, if I have to talk out loud to myself to say, like, yeah, okay, let me run this back. And that's exactly what I would do. It's like, let me run this back. This is why your feelings are hurt. This is why your emotions um are barking at you or whatever. And whenever you would talk it out loud and talk it all the way through, I was like, well, that's silly. I know, right? And so you realize that your mind just has free reign in there to just do all of this damage to yourself. Yeah. And you're the one that benefits from doing the work. You know, so when people, you know, when I work with people and they start doing the work on themselves and they start having aha moments, it's like, yes, it is hard at first, but when you start to get that traction, it's like, oh my God, life is so much easier when you the call is not coming from inside the house where you're just brutalizing your yourself all day long. Like, you're your worst enemy. You don't even need enemies. You're your worst enemy. You wake up with her, you grab the phone as soon as you get up, you torture yourself all day long about you're not good enough, your worthiness, all of the things, right? Based on whatever your programming or conditioning was. You end the the day at the end of the day like that, get up the next day, do it all over again. No wonder everyone's walking around like zombies. Like you don't have to, you no one has to wonder. We we see the recipe, we see exactly what's happening.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

Well, and I think the normalizing of it is is really important, but it's really hard. Yesterday I was I in I just I haven't been sleeping great this week. It's just some stuff going on. And um, and so I because of that, my brain is a little not as disciplined as it normally is. And so I was sitting at the office and um and somebody was sitting next to me, and I just was like, oh, I'm really anxious about something. And she's like, Oh, what do I need to do? Like, I'm like, this I it's not you. And it's okay. Like it's like anxiety is not necessarily a bad thing. I mean, I think it's a it's a to me, it should be a a tool for us to go something's not right. Yes, something's going on. I mean, we were our brains were designed with anxiety for a good reason. So we don't walk out in front of cars. Yeah. So we put our seatbelt on, like all those things to keep us safe, but but we our our society, our environment, the way we've grown up, the culture has just warped that. And so for me to say I having I'm having anxiety is a is an outside, that's why I say it outside, because it's like, oh, okay, then I need to check and see what's going on. And I figured it out and then we moved on. But it was so interesting to see her response.

SPEAKER_00 41:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:37

Because she was just like, what I need to do. I'm like, I would you don't nothing.

SPEAKER_00 41:40

Well, and I think as a society, we've gotten to this place where it's like, oh, we have anxiety, let's medicate that. And I think I'm thinking, what are you doing? Like this is what's and again, I don't, I'm not in anybody else's lane. Please, everybody do whatever you want to. But I'm looking at this from the standpoint of watching the damage that that does to the people that are at my table of life directly. And uh, and it's it's devastating. It's devastating to put medicine and and numb out parts of your emotions that are yours. You're supposed to have those. And if you don't know how to work with them, that's okay. Then figure out how to work with them. Don't take that tool away.

SPEAKER_02 42:13

Right.

SPEAKER_00 42:13

Because that's a tool. Your emotions are your tools.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

They are, and one of the things I, you know, I I talk about with the anxiety medications is if you're in a really space, like a really low space, it should bring you up just a tad so you can work on it. Yeah. And and then you need to get off of it. Like it shouldn't be, and I think that's our medical system, though, right? I mean, you say this is my symptom, they give you a pill to take, and they don't look at the root cause of things. And that's exactly what I think that system does for anxiety. And and anxiety is not, I mean, like I said, it's it we've we've looked at, I remember I had a a woman say to me, she was in her 20s, and she said, Yeah, we're the first generation that understand we have anxiety, but we don't know what to do about it. And I thought that was so amazing because I think that's true. Yes, and it's almost become a oh, I have anxiety, and so um again, it's a it's a it's just a part of my life, and that doesn't have to be the case. Right. You should show up when it needs to to keep you safe, but we're not in danger all the time.

SPEAKER_00 43:11

Right. Use it as the message and the signal. That's a quick way to say that, right? Yep. I think a lot of people too are not comfortable sitting in discomfort. No, right? And so anything feels uncomfortable and we just get away from it, it's like, oh, that touched me and let me get away from that. Let me stop it, let me change it. Um, and life is messy. You know, I say that all the time. It's like life is real, real messy. And and it's supposed to be, right? It is. Um we're not supposed to just continue to numb out. And so I think the the root is the big uh is a big component of that, right? Kind of figuring out, okay, where is this coming from and being curious enough?

SPEAKER_02 43:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:41

What else do you have going on? You're gonna watch the office for the third, you know, third time. Stop, stop, you guys. Like you, I mean, at some point you have to open your eyes and go, am I just numbing my life away? Because life is a gift. You know, it's like we have this data from people that are on their deathbeds and they say, What are their regrets? Go Google that, you know. We have this beautiful thing called the World Wide Web, full of knowledge. Go Google, like what are people's biggest regrets on their deathbed? Why are we not using that as knowledge? Because every single one of them is. I wish I would have lived more fully. And yet everyone has this gift of today that they just throw out the window by numbing, stuffing it down, and numbing on top of it. And it's like, that's not living, you guys. I've lived on both sides of this, I'm telling you. And this is freedom. It is. This is freedom where I am. I I am just happy to be alive. I'm living the best day of my life. Doesn't mean hard things don't happen at all. But I have the tools and I'm the one that has the paintbrush. So it's like I don't paint things where like, oh, that's terrible, and like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like, okay, that needs a solution. Let's go figure that out.

SPEAKER_02 44:41

Right.

SPEAKER_00 44:41

You know, and it is. It's how you how you come at that, taking your tools and your knowledge and doing something with them. I mean, it just makes me sad for society in general. So many people are asleep, and I just want to start.

SPEAKER_01 44:53

It is. And I think in women, I what I've noticed too is um as you know, the women I've been working with are my friends, have gotten older, it's the numbing suddenly is gone. And then they feel all this, but so then they want to run. So like there is this. I can see why, you know, women um pick up and move and do because there's it's suddenly they're just feeling so overwhelmed and they don't know what to do with that.

SPEAKER_00 45:17

Sure, sure.

SPEAKER_02 45:18

Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_00 45:19

Well, and and just that feeling, like you said, they don't know what to do with it. And so they they burn their whole lives to the ground when it really just could take maybe maybe just looking under the under the hood. Yeah, exactly. Just take a look under the hood, ladies. Just take a look under that hood. Yes. And if you're not sure, find somebody who is, you know, find the find the most joyful, happy person in your life and ask them what they're doing, you know, or Google some things, or figure out some coaching or some counseling. Because I think um the coaching component of that is huge. I think if people aren't working with the mentor or a coach, highly recommend, right? Make that a priority because it will change your life. And I think a lot of people put kind of a stigma on it of like, I shouldn't need that. And it's like, we're meant to grow, you guys. I don't know why everyone stopped. You know, we peaked in high school and then nobody's grown past that emotionally or otherwise. It's like, that is the worst time of your life. That's what you want to live on repeat for every day. Like, what an odd choice. Right. Um, you mentioned the the aging women, and so I would love to talk about that a little bit because I know that that's uh for me something that I'm dealing with and something that I think a lot of women deal with. Uh so what is the what tell me what you know about all of that or what we can be doing to kind of get that in check instead of just letting it run rampant.

SPEAKER_01 46:30

You know, I think uh and this has been a journey for me just over the last couple of years. Um, and and my vulnerability is is that you know, I I think probably two years ago I I fully went through menopause. And my face changed, my body changed, my hair changed, yeah, this curly stuff. I don't even know what it is. Exactly. So it's like I guess we're doing this now. We're doing this now. And but I but I had to kind of start exploring um this, you talk about this numbness. Like we, and then I'm confronted with um women who are aging very differently, and that's okay, but it's like, do I need to go get all this work done? Do I because everybody else is doing like there's just there was this really moment of wait a minute, I'm changing and I've got to figure out how to grow with that change, not resist it and not pretend. And um, and I don't think women do that. I think we suddenly wake up and then we have all these changes going. And part of it is I think because we're not living, right? We're just surviving. And then we pass through. Um, one of the things I laugh at is my I had my son when he was 39.

SPEAKER_00 47:30

When I was 39, I was like, that is a weird, I'm gonna need a moment to pull that together.

SPEAKER_01 47:36

When I was 39, and so I laugh about how I totally missed my 40th birthday because I just had a newborn. But I think that happens a lot. Like we just we just skate through life, and then we suddenly wake up and our kids are gone or they're about to leave, and then our parents are aging, and then we're in this weird space where we're also aging too. And I think there's this grief that has to happen. And part of what I think is difficult is people the grief is uncomfortable, um, the grief is hard, and we're taught that we shouldn't be grieving growing up, and I just don't think that's true. And you know, for me, it was really this telling moment because um we were cleaning some stuff out and I found these pictures of and I'm probably gonna tear up. I found these pictures of myself when I was in college in my early 20s, and I sat there and cried. Not because I want to be that person again, because I do not right, but you know, I I was cried for multiple reasons. One because I I felt so unworthy at that age, and I looked great. I know, isn't that funny? Like you can't appreciate where you are, and so I just was very sorry for her that she was chasing all of these things because she because I didn't feel like I was pretty, I didn't feel like I was good enough, I didn't feel like any of these things. And now I'm grieving that that person is is that their body changed and their face has changed, and I have wrinkles and I have all these things, and it's just a grieving process that I think goes on for a long time because we change so quickly and so slowly at the same time, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 49:10

It makes perfect sense to me. And I'm so glad that you brought up the grief and that that's part of this because I think you know, I'm at this place where um I used to get Botox. I used to get, you know, I've had plastic surgery to have implants a couple of times. I had them taken out a couple of years ago. It was the best thing I ever did. Uh, you know, I six months ago stopped doing Botox because my my shooter, who had been my shooter for a long time, retired and sold her practice. And I'm like, maybe take that as the as the sign that it is, you know. I went through a phase uh for anyone who watches the show instead of listening to it, where I had bangs, you know, because my bestie was like, yeah, screw it, get bangs, you know, terrible decision, still gonna hold that one over her head. Uh, but you know what? It was like, okay, I'm either bangs or hats, as you can tell what I'm wearing today. Um, but it's like uh you do grieve that because I have changed what my what my position is because I always thought when I hit 50, I'm gonna get a facelift and I'm in all of the things. Then I had some friends that got facelifts and it didn't go really great. And I'm like, ooh, do I really want them cutting into my, you know, do I want them cutting my ears off and setting them on the side so that I can look like every other, you know, aging woman that's not comfortable in her own skin. And nothing against that, right? I totally get it, but I've gotten to this point where, okay, I have this show about vulnerability, and I'm willing to share everything with everyone, but I want to put masks on. You know, when I first started shooting the show, uh, I had a gal that worked on, you know, worked with me that um was a hair and makeup, and so she was like, let me do the hair and makeup for the show. Or I asked her to do the hair and makeup for the show, and okay, yes, that's great. I never felt more uncomfortable in my life because I've never been that person. I've always just been the person with moisturizer, tinted moisturizer, and move on with my life. Put some mask here on. Here we go. Um, but it's like, okay, how am I doing that? Because that's what's confronting me right now is seeing yourself on TV and doing it in a way that I want to be authentic to myself. Right. Um, that's hard because your hair does change, right? And your and your skin does change. And all of these things, and also looking back, I mean, what you said is just it's so perfect for exactly what I was dealing with in the last couple of weeks, too, because um, you do grieve for that girl who just she didn't have it together enough in her mind. And and you look back and you go, I'd kill to have what you know, like physically what she had, and she hated herself. She did. Um, and now I look at it and I'm I've never been more proud, and I'm just happy that this body keeps, you know, going. And also the the lady that's looking back in the mirror is not the same age as what I feel like inside. And I think that that's where the disconnect is for me because I feel so good with all of the work that I've done. I feel so happy that I have my mind where it is and my emotions where they are, and it's a journey, but I'm at such a great place. And also I feel like, oh God, that old lady looks back in the mirror at me. Not in a bad way, because I don't, I'm not critical of her in that kind of way, but it just is a it is a it's odd and it is just a grieving thing. And so I appreciate you saying that because I do need to just understand that I'm not in that chapter of, you know, tight skin anymore. Maybe, you know, I do this thing with them like, oh God, the the skin doesn't, you know, it doesn't have the same elasticity. And I'm like, well, what are you gonna do? You know, so I don't, I'm not gonna beat myself up about it because I think that that's the norm. I think, you know, it is the norm. I think women especially feel like um they're not good enough and that things, and so they do all of these things to their body, and I think, what a waste of energy. Wouldn't it be easier to work on your mind so that you don't feel like you need to do that? Again, I struggle with it, everyone struggles with it the individually, but you know, so I'm I'm not coming from a place of judgment, but I do see that I would rather work on my mind than I would too.

SPEAKER_01 52:43

And I and I think it's I and I've I where I've had to get to is I've had to change the my own language around healthiness and what does healthiness mean. Um, I've had to change my language around beauty and what does beauty mean. And what I finally realize is if I choose to do something, I'm gonna choose to do it because I'm in a good space with my body now and my face now. Like I'm going to be, um, I've got to grieve this process, I've got to figure out what this body does, I've got to figure out what this space does, I've got to figure all those things out. I've tried a million foundations, still haven't found, I mean, it's like those process, but I'm gonna get okay with what I look like and what I what get my body in the same healthy space that my brain is and my mind is before I choose to do something else. Because otherwise, I'm doing it because of that worth girl. Yeah, and not because that's something I want to do.

SPEAKER_02 53:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:31

I'm doing it because I'm wondering if people are staring at me and going, oh my gosh, like she's looking really old, instead of, you know what, this is a tweak I might want to do. Um, and I'm not, I don't know that I'll ever do that because I also want to look at my face and go, I have earned every single one of these wrinkles. Yeah. That wisdom, I've earned every one of them. And so it's it's gonna be a journey for a while.

SPEAKER_00 53:54

Yeah. Well, and and I think it's so personal for everybody, right? Because I still do this like even yesterday, I wrote a note, get Botox, you know, and then I'll throw that away. And I go back and forth to do that. And then I'm like, no, you don't want to be pumping that shit in your face. Yeah, you know, so I just I it it's an individual struggle for everybody, and and everyone do you. There's no judgment from me. Rip your face off if you want to start over from scratch, have as many plastic stutches as you want. 100%. Because the other part of that is when you say, we when you said earlier about like, is uh, you know, are people thinking that this and that and whatever? Don't worry, everybody's so in twisted up in their own bullshit. No one no one even knows you exist. I mean it's like so many people do that. It's like, think about do you care about that for other people? And also the other thing about judgment, which I want to just I'm gonna I'm gonna finish on this. Um, the the thing about judgment that I thought found to be fascinating in the last couple of years is I tried to work on myself with being judgmental for a long time until I realized it's an inside job. It is an inside job. And as soon as I stopped judging myself, I automatically the rest of it crazy completely crazy. I'm not crazy. I just want to say that as the PSA that it is because I think a lot of people maybe are not as happy about the judgmental, or maybe they don't realize. Um, if you're that judgy girl, know that it screams insecurity. Know that it screams that you've got stuff on the inside of you to work on. And so it's not a good look. It's not a good look on anybody. It wasn't a good look on me. I'm glad that I have that under control now. Um, but yeah, that's that's what that screams. It's not like you're better than them. It screams you're insecure, you're jealous, you're whatever the things are, which is fine. No, again, no judgment, but just know that that's what that is. It's not it's not the other person, it's you.

SPEAKER_01 55:32

I think that's the one of the biggest lessons I've given my son is like if somebody is judging you for something, it's because they're feeling insecure that's and I think that's so true. And the the point too, um, about other people thinking about themselves, like the I that's the first thing. One of those one a tool I would say to use is one of the tools I tell my women I work with is you know, when they're beating themselves up, and I'll just say, what would you tell your friend about this? Like if your friend asked you and told you about the situation, what would you tell them? The language that comes out of that question is so beautiful, it is so kind, it is so grace-filled, and they can't do it to themselves. And and that taking that in externally really helps go, wait a minute, why am I doing this stuff?

SPEAKER_00 56:14

Absolutely. And also like using your kiddos in that. If I wouldn't say it to my daughter, get it out of my head. That's a good way to say it. Right, get it out of my head. Because if I say to her, Oh, your thighs are huge, or you know, that was always an insecurity for me as my thighs just always felt bigger than whatever. It's even hard for me to sit here and say that, but I'm going to say it anyways. Um, because there the shame doesn't live where the light is. Uh if I wouldn't say it to my daughter, why would I say it to me? That's so understanding that you're modeling that behavior to your kiddos, yeah. Uh, and that you're handing that stuff down, I think is really, really important. Yeah. Absolutely. Oh gosh. I this has been really lovely to have this conversation. I've really enjoyed it. Yeah. So tell us um, tell us for our listeners how to connect with you or where to where to find you.

SPEAKER_01 56:55

So you can find um, you can find me at Maddie Cummins at M-A-T-T-I-E-C-U-M-M-I-N S dot com. Um, or at cerebrations.org, either one. Um, real quick about cerebrations, I just like to say this. Um, it's actually cerebrations is the verb verb for the cerebellum, and it means to think. And so we really spend a lot of time on the brain and the body and the mind and how all that's working. Um, I really would love, I love working with women in these in these spaces, um, in the transitions and the not only the aging, but also the transitions of having kids going getting older, parents getting older, anxiety, um, worry, overwhelm, all of those things are a real passion of mine because I've had to be through it, gone through it myself. And so to be able to have that empathy where I only can imagine it, but walk it, I think is um, it's just it's really um it really really helps me in my own journey as well.

SPEAKER_00 57:46

Yeah, I think you being able to um do that from the perspective of having gone through it yourself, yeah, huge. Yeah, right. I mean, it just that's I think that's the biggest component of it is just being able to be relatable. And when you tell somebody like, I hear you, sister, or I I see you, I've been there, you know, um, here's what I did, here it will get better, or whatever direction you're able to provide it. I think that's just really huge. Yeah. So thank you so much for coming on today and spending time. So um, that's our time for today. If something hit, stirred, or lit a fire under you and you've got thoughts, questions, or a story you're ready to share, slide into our DMs or email us at ladies at let's get naked podcast.com. And if you believe in these conversations, help us keep them rolling. Follow, share, rate, review, do all the things. We'll catch you next time.