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Let’s hear the story of Nebraska, its communities, its number one industry Agriculture, and the people who make it happen. Sponsored by Nebraska's Law Firm® - Rembolt Ludtke.
93
Succession planning for farms and ranches
Rembolt Ludtke team members Anthony Aerts and Spencer Hartman discuss the importance of succession planning for farms and ranches.
Welcome to 93.
SPEAKER_01:Welcome to 93, the podcast, where we talk about Nebraska, Nebraska's communities, its number one industry agriculture, and the people who make it happen. I'm Mark Falton, your host for today's episode, brought to you by Nebraska's law firm, Rembolt-Lutkey. Today's episode is focused on the important topic of succession planning for farms and ranches. Joining us today are attorneys Anthony Arts and Spencer Hartman from the Rembolt-Lutke Law Firm. They recently co-authored an article for the Nebraska Cattleman's Magazine on this very topic. Gents, welcome to 93 the podcast. How are you doing? Good. Thanks for having us. Yeah, thanks, Mark. So both of you have pretty strong backgrounds in agriculture. I think it'd be helpful for our listeners for them to have a better understanding of where you come from. Anthony, if you could tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and uh perhaps your ag background.
SPEAKER_03:Sure. Uh I grew up on a family farm outside of David City, Nebraska. Um my family still is actively engaged in agriculture. I have a dad and brother uh who still get up and uh go out and farm every day. Uh it's a trad it's a kind of a combination of things. So as a traditional uh conventional row crop farm, corn and soybeans, we also do uh a portion of it as organic production. And then uh one of the unique kind of diversifications that we've developed over the years is that we've been raising broiler uh poultry uh for the last about 35 years, um, which has allowed us to, like I said, diversify and do some other things uh that we've wanted to do with the farm. And so uh obviously I'm here uh practicing law, but my family is still uh active back there around uh David City.
SPEAKER_01:So David City, that's in the Bohemian Alps of Nebraska, correct? That's correct. Okay, Butler County? Right. All right, so what license plate number is that? It's 25. So one of the reasons we ask uh many of our guests that question is uh Nebraska has 93 counties, and back in the good old days, all 93 counties had their own individual license plate number. Uh but now that's limited to about 90 counties. So uh again, we'll uh it's a great little uh trivia question for those of you who enjoy trivia. Spencer, I think you're from southwest Nebraska. Tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and your ag background.
SPEAKER_02:Sure. So before I uh jump into the background, I just want to build on that a little bit, Mark, which is uh my wife is from uh Kansas City, grew up in the Kansas City area. We met an undergrad here at the University of Nebraska uh College of AG, uh, and she has taken it upon herself to learn the license plate number of all 93 counties.
SPEAKER_01:They should actually test like fourth graders in Nebraska. You should have to memorize those numbers.
SPEAKER_03:We did when we were growing up, our mom created a game like that, and if you could, the more you could get, the better prizes you got. So yes.
SPEAKER_02:So maybe uh episode five or six, uh you could have her on and quiz her and see if she can remember them. Awesome. Uh so yes, uh, you're correct. I grew up uh uh southwest Nebraska, Imperial was my hometown uh on the family uh livestock operation, cow calf, uh commercial cow calf herd. Um in about eighth grade, I started a hydroponic tomato business uh where we grew tomatoes and and sold them to the local grocery stores, farmers markets, um helped the neighbors uh with uh row crop harv uh planting through harvest, and and my first job was walking wheat fields, uh pulling the triticale plants out uh for a guy that sold seed wheat. Uh still maintain the livestock investments um to this day and and make it back out west uh periodically a few times a year to work on those.
SPEAKER_01:So I was recently oh, before I forget, what county number is yours? 72. Very nice. Uh I was recently asked this question, and I'd I'd be interested in your answer. When working with folks in agriculture, is it important that the attorney that they're working with have some background in agriculture? And if so, why?
SPEAKER_03:I think that it's super important that the attorney uh that farmers and ranchers work with has at least some baseline knowledge of agriculture, if not uh have come from that background themselves. Um simply because it's so specialized, it's so complex, and the assets involved are unlike anything else in any other industry, that when you're when you're working through an estate planning or a business planning or either even a litigation type of question, if you don't have that substantive knowledge, I think you'll already be at a disadvantage in the quality of legal service that you're getting. And so I think that for that reason alone, uh it's a super capital-intensive industry. Uh farmers and my grandpa used to say farmers and ranchers are about the only industry that has to buy at retail and then turn around and sell it wholesale. I mean, there's all kinds of things that uh that make the industry so unique. Uh, so I think having that baseline with your your attorney having that baseline is very important.
SPEAKER_02:Spencer, agree? I totally agree. I think uh in addition to everything that Anthony said, people uh like to work with with like-minded folks and people that have a shared experience or common experience. And so uh just building relationships is helpful to have that shared experience as well.
SPEAKER_01:So the way I answered the question, not dissimilar from how you answered it, was, and I actually stole this answer from someone else, so I can't claim credit for it, was that by being in agriculture and actually still being involved in agriculture today, in essence I'm part of the club, meaning I understand what$4 corn is and the impact that that can have. I understand uh input costs and what the impact that that can have. And so just having a day-to-day understanding of the current uh regulatory environment, the current price market, those things impact people's ability to do business and also possibly impacts the legal advice we give given what's going on currently. So I do think it does help. So you guys just wrote this cool little article called A State in Succession Planning. It was published in the October 2024 edition of the Nebraska Cattleman magazine. Tell our listeners a little bit about that article. Is succession planning important for farmers?
SPEAKER_02:I think succession planning could not be uh there's never been a time when succession planning is more important than than it is today, uh, given a couple of factors. One being the average age of the farmer, uh the massive amount of wealth that's going to be transitioning over the next uh decade or so, uh, coupled with federal uh and and frankly some state, but primarily federal uh tax planning strategies. And so I think this article is timely. Um certainly, certainly can't uh do a deep dive dissertation on estate planning in a couple page article. But the important thing is that we get this on folks' minds that they start thinking about it. It's harvest season, right? They've a lot of our our clients, friends, families uh have got time writing, driving the combine, working hard long hours. But uh we wanted to get this on your minds and and start thinking about it.
SPEAKER_01:So, Anthony, the first section of your article is entitled Communicate Early. What do you mean by that? What what what are you communicating and who with whom are you communicating?
SPEAKER_03:So, I mean, as as you know, Mark, we here at our firm we do both the front-end estate planning for people and we do the back end post-death administration work when somebody passes away. And more times than not, when there's problems on that back end, it's because people end up surprised. It's not what they thought it was gonna be. Mom and dad never really made it known to people what they were thinking, how things were gonna transition. And when those expectations are disrupted or don't meet what somebody thought, then that's where people can start to feel like maybe they got slighted and it can cause some problems. And so, like I always tell my clients, and you know, if it's somebody doing planning for their own estate and they're thinking about how do I treat my children? What does equal mean? Is there any such thing as equal or am I trying to be equitable? I say now you have the chance to actually sit down and talk with your kids about what mom and dad want, about what you want, because then people can kind of be on the same page moving forward. Because when that somebody is surprised, that's where the problems start.
SPEAKER_01:Isn't that a difficult conversation to have with your kids sometimes?
SPEAKER_03:It's a do it definitely can be a difficult conversation to have. And sometimes for that reason, clients will ask us, Well, can you be part of that conversation? Can can we all sit down together and talk through that? In fact, I just had a meeting last week with a farm family uh where we sat down and the kids were in the room and we basically walked through their will and walked through their trust. And we basically said, This is how how my this is how things are gonna go, at least based on current intentions and stuff. And so it's a hard conversation to have, but but you're you're really doing yourself a favor by potentially having it. Now, that's not to say there might not be reasons why somebody doesn't want to have that conversation and does want to keep their plans confidential, and there's nothing wrong with that. But but sometimes um if if if it's just a matter of not having the conversation because you didn't think to have the conversation, it's probably best to have have that conversation um just so that people are going into things with eyes wide opened. And then that way when something does happen, when mom passes away, when dad passes away, it's already emotionally charged time, at least that at least that there's not something being added to that uh charge but based on what the estate plans do or don't do.
SPEAKER_01:Spencer, um is there a certain uh value or threshold that uh folks need to consider hiring experienced uh estate planning, succession planning attorneys like you guys? Uh again, if I've got let's say a quarter and uh not much as far as other assets, are we spending money on folks like you, or uh is there a certain point which they need to come see someone uh like uh the two of you or someone who's very experienced with the farm and ranch background?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so you'll you'll meet attorneys across the state that have uh different opinions about this. What my thoughts on this, and I encourage clients, is if you've got kids or you and or you own real estate, you need to see an attorney uh to get an estate plan drafted. Um the the way the laws are set up uh and the thresholds and the values now, you can only move about a hundred thousand dollars of value uh without opening a probate. Uh and so if if your net worth exceeds$100,000, you need to see an attorney. If you've got kids, uh the real heartbreak stories that I've seen are when parents of minor children have not done estate planning, and then you know something uh tragic happens to a p one or two parents uh and and then we're left with this mess in the court systems. And the way to avoid that can be quite simple uh by seeing someone. So if you fall in one of those two categories, you should you should make the investment to have your estate planning done.
SPEAKER_01:Aaron Ross Powell So I intentionally do not do any estate planning, so we've got experts like you guys to do it. So tell tell our listeners, actually tell me, what is a trust and how does it relate to uh perhaps avoiding the cost and time and expense of probate? Uh why would someone consider using a trust?
SPEAKER_03:So at a at a basic level, a trust is a legal arrangement, or you could even think of it as a contract where you, as the person who sets up the trust, we call that the set lore, nominates somebody else to own the assets that you put in the trust and to take certain steps related to those assets. We call that the administration of the assets for the benefit of other people, which is the beneficiaries. And oftentimes people's beneficiaries are gonna be their spouse, they're gonna be their kids, their grandkids, and so on down the line. But the the interesting thing about a trust is once it's created, um, and once you put thou those rules in place for how those assets get held, administered, and distributed once you pass away, then once you do pass away, those rules can't be subsequently changed by anyone. And so it provides a very uh time-tested, sophisticated mechanism for making sure that your assets get basically managed and then distributed exactly how you want them to once you pass away. And so in the farming context, um, it can be especially relevant where you maybe have some farmland that you want to make sure one of the kids or more of the kids who are actually actively involved in the farming operation have an opportunity to continue farming that, have an opportunity maybe to purchase that property, uh, but at the same time, you're you you can still reserve some of the value to go to maybe some of the other children that aren't on the farm. And so it it sets that framework up versus just saying to all your kids, here, you take it and you figure it out. You are all co-owners, you all own an equal part, and now you figure it out. Because that works, right? Yeah, because that's where a lot of the problems we see come up is in that co-ownership. And so the trust provides some time, it gives everyone a chance to breathe, yeah, get their feet underneath them, uh, build up some additional working capital, and then see what happens in terms of it provides a really good mechanism for farm succession and ranch planning.
SPEAKER_01:Spencer, your article mentions and talks about the federal estate tax and an exemption. It's my understanding things may be changing in the very near future. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about that exemption and what may be happening?
SPEAKER_02:Sure. And I think this question builds a little bit on the last one about do you need an estate plan? So I think sometimes folks fall into this category of uh the federal limits are incredibly high right now. Maybe I've got a quarter ground, but I'm not approaching anywhere near 10, 15 million dollars. Uh so I just don't need to worry about it. Uh I would defer back again and just reiterate that$100,000 is the limit in Nebraska to be able to move property without probate or without court administration. To your question about the federal uh limits, currently uh we're sitting about$13.8 million per person. Uh you can move up to$13.8 million uh during your lifetime or at death per person. So that gets us just around$27 million for a married couple. You can uh we have a concept called portability, which basically means that a married couple can share that uh$27 million between them and move it that amount of value either while alive or at death or in combination of the two. If Congress takes no action, uh those limits will cut approximately in half at the end of 2025. About uh 14 months from now, uh we'll be looking at$13 to$14 million for a married couple to be able to move at life or during life or at death. Uh as a percentage of the population and as a percentage of Nebraska farmers, that will implicate a lot more people at the$13 to$14 million range, given the values of the underlying land and assets than are currently implicated at$27 million.
SPEAKER_01:So I I saw a recent article that talked about the likely outcome of the upcoming elections or November 2024 elections, and strong likelihood that government, federal government will be divided once again. And we know uh Congress doesn't get much done when it's divided, right? And maybe that's a good thing, but in this instance it'd be a really bad thing. And so the likelihood of that exemption being significantly reduced is actually pretty high, if I understand it.
SPEAKER_02:Based on what I'm I'm reading, you know, project predictions about the election as well, uh the only way that we either keep the current levels or potentially reduce them, uh some some proposals have been as low as$3 million. Uh the only way that we swing that pendulum one way or the other completely is if the House, the Senate, and the White House are controlled by the same party. To your point and the same articles I've read, it seems likely that at least two of those three will be controlled by one and the other party will control the other, um, which leads us to the default, which is we cut the root we cut the exemptions in half and we're sitting at the 13 million.
SPEAKER_01:So one of the other topics in your article, I believe the caption is gifting strategies. Uh when you say gifting strategies, does that mean can I somehow work my what myself into that equation so people are gifting me land? I'm joking, of course, but what do you what are gifting strategies and how do you use those from a farm and ranch perspective as it relates to potential estate tax implications?
SPEAKER_02:I'll I'll defer to Anthony to explain them, but I want to tee up a little bit why that might be important and the urgency to some of this. So we just talked about how we've got 14 months before those limits cut in half. Uh we're talking with a lot of people about wanting to use those uh up to the 27 million while we know that we have it right now. So there's some urgency here. And the reason for the urgency is that should your net worth exceed that at the time of your death, the tax rate is 40%. And a lot of our agricultural families, nearly 100%, uh don't have the liquidity to pay 40% taxes, which would necessitate the sale of land and assets. And so that's what we're trying to avoid. So I'll kick it to Anthony about the gifting.
SPEAKER_03:First off, I would say that you're a joke in Mark, but it's also not a joke because actually the rule is that anyone can gift up to$18,000 per year to anyone else in the world. Put me on the list. And the IRS doesn't ever have doesn't have to know about it. There's no, it doesn't, you're not taxed on it, you don't have to file a report on it. The rule is$18,000 per year. That's the annual gift tax exclusion. So people certainly are free to gift within that limit. But for some people, including many farmers and ranchers, you need to be a little bit more than more aggressive than that if you're potentially looking at paying some 40% federal estate tax, which quite frankly would make you have to probably liquidate part of the farmer rat ranch just to be able to pay it. I mean, it would completely disrupt your operation. And so, you know, some people come to us and basically say, hey, how can I already start to shift some of that value to the next generation to avoid that potential disruption and liquidation event? And that's where lifetime gifts come into play. So if you want to go ahead and make a bigger lifetime gift over that$18,000 per year to any person, you certainly can do it. The IRS basically says you can gift under current law$13.6 million per person, uh, either during your lifetime or at your death. You can either do it now or later, but that you can't do more than that between the two times. And so if you want to make a bigger gift right now, you can do it. You just have to tell the IRS about it. That's called a gift tax return. So that would have to be filed. And so if I went ahead and made a, you know, uh$1 million, uh,$18,000 gift, then I need to file a return to the IRS to say I made that extra million dollar gift, and then that's going to come off your$13.6 million. And so you can start to dwindle that down.
SPEAKER_01:And that doesn't necessarily have to be cash, that can be ownership interest in a farm entity or something like that, right?
SPEAKER_03:It certainly can. I mean, it could be a whole farm, it could be partial ownership interest in a farm, it can be farm machinery and equipment. However, um, what I do want to point out is that there's a little bit of a balance to uh kind of strike here because once you gift something away, then it's not going to be in your estate anymore, which can be a good thing because even the growth then will be outside of your estate and that farmland or whatever it might be. However, you also are gonna lose the step up and basis. And for a lot of farmers and ranchers, they Do you want to get that step up and basis to erase potential capital gains tax liability? And so it's not this gifting, lifetime gifting is not something you just take on lightly. It involves a very careful coordination with your attorney, with your CPA, with your financial planner, if you work with one, to think really what's the best uh strategy for me in terms of um, you know, doing that balance between federal estate tax, uh, federal income tax, and capital gains tax, step up and basis. And also, once you give something away, like you're giving up control. And so for a lot of farmers and ranchers, like that's a hard thing to think about. Is there strategies available to make a gift yet retain control? There certainly are. And those are things that we work with clients all the time on, uh, where we're basically doing some gifting but retaining some management rights and control for the person making the gift.
SPEAKER_01:So people in your estate planning and succession planning practice group, you guys do some pretty creative things. Uh, you use a lot of acronyms. I'm not, I don't know all the acronyms. There's one at IDGT, you call it an IGIT. Is that right? Yes. What the heck is that?
SPEAKER_03:Uh so an IDET is uh what that stands for, Mark, is it stands for intentionally defective grantor trust.
SPEAKER_01:Why would an attorney want to do something that's defective?
SPEAKER_03:So uh one of the one of the uh so an IGIT, first off, uh is a separate irrevocable trust. And so if somebody wants to make a gift, it's a gift to an ident, then they're basically using up some of that$13.6 million exemption. Um, but once they do that gift, uh, whereas most irrevocable trusts are then complete are considered completely separate uh from everything related to the person who set it up and makes the gift, the the defective part of the id is that the person doing the gifting can also then still pay income tax uh related to the assets in that trust. And so it allows you to both make a gift of assets into that trust to get that value out of your estate, the growth and the value is then out of your estate, and then you also can pay the income tax related to those assets, which then that's out of your estate. And so if you have a large estate, idits can can prove to be an effective planning tool uh for helping to mitigate some of your estate value growth.
SPEAKER_01:Aaron Powell So we've talked about the tax implications, some of the financial implications. Well, one of the issues that I have seen, and I'm sure you have as well, let's move to the other side, which is the operational issues. And I'll give you some examples. Uh uh hopefully no one thinks I'm talking about them when I mention the story, but uh dad transitions the uh farming operation to his son uh but still wants to micromanage everything, which is I'm telling my son what hybrids, I'm telling my son what type of pivot he's gonna buy, I'm uh you know insisting and actually still overseeing all operations and insisting upon it. How do you address those kind of issues? Because if I'm the son, I want to be given the opportunity to sort of plow my own ground, do it the way I would like. Obviously, if dad has good advice, I'll consider it, but it's my decision. How do you address those issues? Aaron Powell You said you hope that nobody thinks you're talking about them.
SPEAKER_02:I would say this applies to nine. Everyone thinks you're talking about them. I think uh there are a couple of strategies here. One is the the gifting strategies where we used oftentimes entity interests and and maybe in this case allow dads to keep some or a lot of the control uh and make those decisions. I think this gets back to the communicate early, our dad and son on the same page about the long-term goal here. Uh, you know, to be blunt about it, you can't take the ground with you uh to the grave. And so at some point, son is going to be you know running this. And so let's have a conversation. Uh, this is more the succession planning than just pure estate planning. So thinking about a business. If we're running any other business, we're thinking about growing the leadership in that business. So what does that look like on our farm? I think the other piece, um, Nebraska has really diversified its uh agricultural industries in the last couple of decades. And what I see, I'd be interested in in the two of your thoughts on this, what I see where this works most successfully is where the family diversifies and finds ways that the next generation can sort of have some ownership. Is that chicken barns? Is that growth of a feedlot? You know, in my case, is that uh starting a hydroponic tomato business? Is that having some registered cattle on the site of the commercial herd? So finding the way that that gives child uh something that is theirs and they're growing that and on their own in addition to the family operation.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and I've and I think those are all really great points, um, Spencer, and a couple others that come to mind that I think we run into sometimes is usually, you know, it's like um, for instance, like dad has his kind of his set of machinery and equipment, which we don't really want to just liquidate out because then we're gonna have depreciation recapture and capital gains tax that comes with that. But then over time, as you begin to trade out equipment and maybe have that other person who's involved in the farm step up and be the one to start to purchase and acquire the equipment. So eventually over time, all the operational assets have shifted over to the next generation, even potentially before parents pass away. Uh so that makes it easier in terms of then having to worry about passing those operational assets through an estate plan. Um and another thing I think we see of uh a little bit of that skin in the game kind of concept uh is like, you know, you can do crop share arrangements, you don't see them often with third parties, uh, tenant landlords, but with with uh related parties, we see that more where it kind of gives you that skin in the game and the opportunity to uh kind of control some of those financial outcomes.
SPEAKER_01:A couple years ago, I was at I was going to a lot of farm auctions trying to buy some farm ground, and there's one that still sets in my mind because it was such a sad situation. This is uh it's at the VFW hall, right? So everyone's there, a couple hundred people there, and uh I quickly got outbid because I'm cheap, and the bidding continued well above what anyone would normally consider to be fair market value. And the auctioneer took a break and the room split in two. And so I asked one of the local people, I said, Well, what's going on here? Uh it looks like there's a lot of uh hostility here. He goes, These are two brothers bidding against themselves, bidding against each other because their parents didn't have an estate plan. So the brothers who farmed together were now fighting, as were their spouses, as were their families, over who was going to be the high bidder to buy back the ground that mom and dad didn't properly plan for. We have to try and avoid those types of issues. I mean, the emotions in that room alone, it was sad for me as a out you know, bystander, someone who's an outsider. I can't imagine the emotional toil that that took upon those families, and who knows, they probably today haven't bridged that gap. What how do you deal with those emotional issues? Obviously, you want to try and avoid that at the outset, but for example, if you're having the family discussion with the children present, and maybe the one child who wants to be the one who runs the farm isn't the one getting the farm, but another one is, are there uh other outside parties that you involve, even counselors, if you will, as part of this succession planning, estate planning process? Have you worked with folks like that?
SPEAKER_03:We've certainly seen our share of uh farmland-related disputes uh once one or both parents have passed away, uh, which can then take the form of a partition lawsuit or a dissolution of a farm corporation that holds the farmland and it just becomes really expensive from a legal perspective. Yeah, the lawyers are the one who get paid, right? That's right, yeah. Um in in terms of and it is true, I mean, there's a certain something to be said that um uh you know it almost does become uh people's people's emotional uh considerations play a big part of of what's happening um at that point in time. Um obviously uh the the more trust uh like you like we've talked about kind of the recurring theme, communicate early, uh get everyone on the same page early, the more trust that can be built throughout over time. I think it helps to smooth out some of those some of those issues. Um but uh at the end of the day, it's just a really hard situation. And and there's no I I don't I would in some ways there's no right or wrong answer. And one of the things I always tell my clients is this is this is your farm, this is your assets. You worked your whole life to build it up and you really can do what whatever you want with them. However, based on the many, many estates that we've helped plan and administer, here's some things that we've seen that tend to work better than others. And um, so you know, if you have an opportunity, not everyone does, but if you have an opportunity to actually give different parcels to different people, so there's not that co-ownership, that tends to result in a little bit of a smoother outcome. If there's a concern about can somebody have a right to farm those parcels, or how is they not how are they not gonna just sell it down to to the biggest bidder down the road or whatever? And you can certainly build in some options to to to farm some options to purchase, some first rights and refusal and stuff like that. Um but I but co-ownership does tend to cause uh a lot of problems. Um and at that point uh it can it can turn into something even more than just the co-ownership.
SPEAKER_02:So yeah, I think our team here at Rembolt does a really great job of bringing creative creative ideas and creative solutions as well. And so if you're in the spot that mom and dad, by no fault of your own, your mom and dad didn't do estate planning, and so you're in the spot of these brothers, you know, they couldn't control whether mom and dad did their estate planning uh post-death, we can can help in bringing creative solutions together. So, you know, does it make sense to create a family LLC and and have multiple owners that participate in this for a few years at least until we can sort it out? And then, you know, maybe maybe we allow one or the other sibling to buy each other out over time uh and and lots of other ideas that we have. But just because, you know, if you're in the situation mom and dad didn't do any planning, we can still be helpful in in moving things forward peacefully and and try to find a win-win for your family.
SPEAKER_01:So we ask all of our guests this question. You get one word in just one word. What is one word that describes and explains this great place in which we live and work, Nebraska? Anthony, you're old you're older than Spencer, so you get to go first.
SPEAKER_03:I would say that it's it's solid. Nebraska is a solid place to raise a family, to run a business, to that's predictable, um, except for the weather.
SPEAKER_01:The wind. The wind's predictable.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, you're right. So that's my word.
SPEAKER_01:Spencer? I would say opportunity. Great answer from both of you. Appreciate that. That's a great way to wrap up. Thanks for joining us today. I'm confident that our listeners learned something new today. I know I sure did. Keep listening to Nighty Three the Podcast as we release additional episodes on Nebraska, Nebraska's communities, Nebraska's number one industry agriculture, and the folks who make it happen. Thanks.
SPEAKER_00:This has been Nighty Three the Podcast, sponsored by Nebraska's law firm, Rumboldt Ludke.
