5 FAQs about Social Psychology & the Workplace

In the workplace, self-doubt, leadership skills (or lack thereof), and power dynamics all come to a head. 

 In this episode of 5 FAQs, we’re joined by Dr. Meagan Yarmey, Social Psychologist and Clinician. 

 Together we talk about social and behavioural psychology and how these disciplines can create frameworks for great leadership. 

THE 5 FAQs WE WILL ANSWER:    

 1. What is social psychology?  

2. How does research in social psychology inform your approach to understanding workplace dynamics and well-being?   

3. How can a deeper understanding of social psychology help individuals navigate self-doubt and perfectionism at work? 

4. What can social psychology teach us about building trust and improving team dynamics?  

5. What are your top tips for balancing personal well-being with the demands of high-stress careers? 

Learn more about EHN Canada and starting your own mental health treatment journey at ehncanada.com.

To learn about how EHN Guardians supports Military, Veterans and First Responder communities, click here: ehnguardians.ca.

Transcript

Jonathan Friedman (He/Him) (00:07)
Hello there, my name is Jonathan Friedman and you are listening to Five FAQs by EHN Canada. This is the show where we scour the internet for the most frequently asked questions about mental health and addiction and ask an expert for their answers to them. Today it is my honour and my pleasure to introduce my special guest, Dr. Megan Yarmey. Dr. Megan Yarmey is an insightful clinician, researcher and educator with over 20 years of experience in higher education and the private sector. Her background includes clinical treatment and health promotion,

research and evaluation, and various leadership capacities within the mental and behavioral health and wellbeing sector. In addition to a PhD in social psychology, we'll be talking a lot about that today, from York University, Megan's academic credentials include a master's of social work in clinical social work from Wohlford Laurier, a master in arts and community psychology from the University of Toronto, and a BA in psychology from the University of Guelph. Megan, Dr. Yarmey, how you doing today?

Meagan (01:05)
I'm good, thank you. Super excited to be here. This is fun.

Jonathan Friedman (He/Him) (01:09)
We are super excited to have you. We have, as I said, the five biggest questions. Today we're going to talk a lot about social psychology and organizational psychology. But first, you share with the listeners out of all the fields, why did you get into mental health care? Why into psychology?

Meagan (01:25)
Yeah, that's a great question. I think first and foremost, the reality is I grew up in an academic family. My father was a research psychologist. So we grew up in a small town, Guelph, which is a university town. Early on, I got involved in my dad's research. Didn't really know what psychology was at the time, but as I grew and participated in his research and then I went to University Guelph, I inherently seemed to gravitate to the study of human behavior and psychology.

So that's why everyone in my family, I was somehow involved in psychology level curiosity. At one point I thought, I wanna be a medical doctor. I was really interested in the mind body connection. At another point I thought, no, I wanna be a lawyer. And so over time, eventually through my various studies, I combined the two and looked at issues around jury decision-making.

women's health. So it was a unique combination. I think it's a process of self-discovery and something that truly interested me. The spin to mental health eventually came through over time as well. Lived experience, if that makes sense.

Jonathan Friedman (He/Him) (02:34)
Thank you for sharing that. What an interesting journey. What are some of the

things that right now you're really excited about, interested about in the field of psychology?

Meagan (02:45)
Yeah, there's so many. Right now, my clinical practice, think, some that's really current and timely is putting together a program, a group therapy around imposter syndrome. I think imposter syndrome speaks to a number of high achieving individuals. It taps into some of those underlying drivers that we all experience to different degrees. It's not a pathology, it's more of understanding how can I best understand self.

and utilize tools and strategies to help myself better navigate and present myself as my best in whatever circumstance, primarily in the workforce, but in other aspects of my life. So we're dealing with things around confidence, self-esteem, understanding my attitudes, understanding how I relate to others, self-perception. These are all topics that really come out of...

social psychology, and then in an applied sense, organizational psychology, and then often have a clinical application. So that's one of the main topics I've been looking at recently, but I'm always interested in number of different things around anxiety, social anxiety, public speaking, attribution theory. I also have a side interest in terms of looking at sort of an Eastern approach, Eastern philosophy to how to enhance our sense of wellbeing. So wellbeing is another term.

that I, an area that I've really spent a lot of time focusing on.

Jonathan Friedman (He/Him) (04:10)
I love that. Let's start with our first big question of today and take a step back and talk about what is social psychology in general? We listed sort of those different things that come from social psychology, like talking about imposter syndrome, social anxiety, but what is the discipline itself? Yeah, let's start there.

Meagan (04:15)
Thank

Yeah, so social psychology is one of those fields that most of us know about. We don't know it actually comes from social psychology. So the field of human behavior, which is psychology, is broken into different components. So we all know of clinical psychology. Most people know that the first and foremost. One little side tip that was quite interesting is that clinical psychology is a combination of both social, the study of social psychology and clinical psychology because there's so much of social psychology that impacts distress or psychological disorders.

So social psychology really focuses on people's thoughts, feelings and behaviors of how they're influenced by the presence of others. So we don't live in a vacuum, we are social creatures. So how I feel about myself is often influenced by perception of other. So things such as group dynamics, attitudes, prejudice, identity, decision-making, interpersonal relationships, love, all of these things are

often the topics that studied within social psychology. We have a very applied aspect of it. So we have straight theoretical social psychology, and then we have applied social psychology. So for example, jury decision-making would be something that comes out of applied social psychology. We're looking at group dynamics. How do people come to decision-making process from a group? And then what are the impacts? perception of others, perception of self.

attributions of responsibility and blame, all of these in a social context, we fall under the domain of what social psychology is.

Jonathan Friedman (He/Him) (05:59)
That's really, really interesting. And so

it sounds like a lot of social psychology, like we don't live in a vacuum, as you said. It's not just how I think about myself, but it could be my understanding of how I think of how Megan thinks about me and how I might act in different ways around that.

Meagan (06:18)
Absolutely, absolutely. For a great example, if we want to take that and put it into a clinical context is social anxiety. So an individual may come to a clinician to say, ah, I'm really dealing with things around how we interact with others. I have difficulty going to parties or talking in class or talking in a work meeting because I perceive that other people might be judging me, my focusing on other. So that's that.

how do I interact with others is now causing some distress within self. So I need to learn as the client, how can I navigate that? What are the tools to help me better relate, develop a sense of confidence in self and not focus on the others and what I perceive to be the factors that the other is thinking about me? So there's a lot of it in our world that often we don't really recognize because we are socialized.

Jonathan Friedman (He/Him) (07:04)
really

Meagan (07:10)
Like social psychology talks about the socialization process and how we perceive it to be. Often we take it for granted. So that's another great example of a great social. I think it actually comes out of social developmental is a model called Bronfenbrenner social ecological model, whereas the individual is embedded in different systems and the systems each impact individual. So how that person thinks is influenced by time, their circle of influence by the

by those individuals in a school, a school embedded in a time period in a certain place in the country, in the world. All of these factors impact how the individual feels about itself and perceives others.

Jonathan Friedman (He/Him) (07:51)
It's really interesting and actually when I was in

school for child and youth counselling, that was a big piece of it. How a kid in a certain context may act different than a kid presenting similar things but in a different context.

Meagan (08:07)
Absolutely, absolutely. So I think you've nailed it really well. So social psychology identifies and addresses the context and how that context can impact and play out on a person's thought processes, their emotional experience, and then how they behave.

Jonathan Friedman (He/Him) (08:22)
taking that next step, how does research in social psychology, all of those different concepts, inform your approach and other psychologists' approach in understanding workplace dynamic, well-being? Tell me more about that.

Meagan (08:36)
Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, most definitely, I'd say I draw on the influence of what's called social cognition. So how we are social thinkers. So that theoretical model influences how or informs how I work with a client. But I don't think I just leave it with social psychology. I'm certainly influenced by theoretical models that come out of community psychology. So community psychology is another area.

under the umbrella of various components or areas of study within psychology that focuses on systemic factors that influence human behaviors. Really looking at it has a preventative approach. It doesn't get into a clinical sense, but works at a systems level. So issues around social justice, empowerment, social norms, cultural influence. So identifying those factors that may impact an individual. So I would draw on community psychology, social psychology, and then...

factors that come from things like social, clinical social work. depending on what the project is, am I working at individual level with the individual client or am I working at a systems level? So for example, a systems level would be designing a program, a prevention program around mental health literacy. How can I go into an environment, talk to the client, identify what their needs are?

and then around, let's develop a well-being program specific to a certain age group to identify the needs, and then draw on factors from the literature that are very applied to say, let's tailor a program to help students or workers, staff develop a sense of creating belonging within the school, within the organization. So depending on what is the assessment and then the implementation of theoretical models within applied sets.

Does that make sense?

Jonathan Friedman (He/Him) (10:27)
It totally does. So looking at a more specific example, like let's say we take self doubt, we take perfectionism, like in work, in an organization, crushing it, doing really well means you get a move up. It means you're getting that raise. It means you're doing well at the performance review, so on and so forth. But really the truth is we know scrolling through Instagram, you're scrolling everywhere that failure is also really important to learning.

But I feel like, and I definitely fit into this boat, you want to crush it. You want to be perfect. And in a way that sort of feeds into that anxiety, feeds into that feedback loop and can create instances in which we're actually failing because we're trying to be too perfect.

Meagan (11:14)
Absolutely. So if we look at the literature around imposter syndrome, perfectionism, the underlying things are what is that level of self-talk? What am I telling myself that creates a narrative? A narrative then impacts how I respond to it. So if I'm telling myself, I have to perform at a level that is close to perfect. If I don't, I will be reprimanded. I will be judged. So we look at that. What is it? The fear of judgment, the fear of failure.

When we do that, we become so rigid that we're not able to be in the moment and perform in something we often call flow. So we want to get to a place to identify for our client. Let's start paying attention to how do I talk to myself? What are the expectations I place on self? How do I respond to my perceived sense of judgment by other? Can I start to develop a sense of confidence in myself and my skill set?

that is realistic to the scope of the job, setting goals that are realistic. Can I then use develop a mindset, right? That we often hear of a growth mindset rather than a fixed mindset and use every opportunity to develop mastery of the task that then creates a sense of capability and confidence.

So if we set realistic goals, we become aware of the self-talk that we have, aware of the self-expectations, we will then hopefully over time perform. But when we focus on things such as social media, that pressure to be perfect, that pressure of these unrealistic expectations of others then become internalized, they don't allow us to relax into being our best self. So it's a combination of paying attention to what do I tell myself, having realistic...

self-talk, realistic self-expectations, goals, and then the follow through of that. Getting feedback, incorporating that feedback that will help me to grow and over time develop those skill sets. So in an organization, having that awareness of you in terms of management role, leadership role is can we set realistic expectations for our staff? As an employee, can I set real expectations for myself? Develop the support networks?

the skill sets to develop that over time. And mastery is, great, I crushed it. I can do it again. maybe the feedback is I didn't crush it. Where's the growth opportunity? So that self-compassion piece is really important as well.

Jonathan Friedman (He/Him) (13:52)
Totally, I love that. And it sounds like there's sort of like a few key pieces here. Number one, perfectionism exists. But why is being perfect, why is that important to us? And it sounds like what you're saying is that there's often some kind of anxiety, some kind of underlying fear that sort of pushes people into that direction. And I think on the individual level, that's really, really important to understand.

on the organizational level as an individual or as a leader setting those goals and working with your team to build the OKRs or whatever the case is, what are the ways that we can shape failure as growth experiences? And also, what are the ways in which we can reinforce when people are actually doing really, really well and crushing it?

Meagan (14:47)
Absolutely. So that taps into things such as communication styles, validation, collaborative goal setting, positive feedback loops, debriefs, so that it is a process rather than focusing on the outcome. So if we can get into the process of development for self as an individual and process and development as management, as leadership, I think it's much more of a win-win. It looks at it over time.

I think perfectionism is again, you know, if we pull back, what are those, what were the circumstances that developed that way of thinking that leads to a sense of rigidity? So if we can restructure that thought into striving for excellence, striving for good, and then we continue to create the bar. There is no perfection, right? That perfection always changes. So we're chasing a carrot and in that process becoming very rigid and tight and not setting yourself up for success.

So we want to enjoy the moments, be present, and attain something that approximates our goals so that we can actually enjoy the process and the outcome, the merits of the outcome.

Jonathan Friedman (He/Him) (15:55)
Perfectionism as rigidity kind of really resonates with me a lot. So thank you for sharing that. So let's step into that a little bit more. So looking at the organization, looking about trust, team dynamics, what can we learn from social psychology and organizational psychology and all of these wonderful disciplines about building trust with your teams, with your people and improving those dynamics?

Meagan (15:59)
You're welcome. You're welcome.

and

Yeah, those are great questions. I think trust is earned. I think it's about taking opportunities as a leader in whatever role it is to role model, right? To mentor, to utilize open communication styles, to understand other. To do that, we need to develop a sense of what is called a psychological sense of belonging so that our team, our staff,

our colleagues feel that they are seeing value heard, that their opinions or contributions are considered, that we have appropriate discussion around it, that when feedback is delivered, it is presented in a way that is constructive so that people aren't feeling that they are belittled, recommended. So trust is a process that is established

over time and maintained by these communication processes about a style of leadership and openness. I think it also speaks to things such as authenticity, right? So if we want to develop a cohesive team that people are aligning with their values and goals, we need to speak to, we show up as our authentic selves? And so that how is that? What is my understanding, my perception of self, my perception of other?

How can I help to establish a dynamic, an environment, a cultural sense within that team, within the community that we value each of our members? How do I do that? By first understanding who I am, where are my strengths, what are my values? Can I present them and feel safe enough to be authentic, that psychological sense of authenticity, and create a norm that encourages others to show off as their authentic self?

So I think these are processes, I think is a learning process where we strive, we collect data in whatever form that is, we evaluate it, and then we learn from it. We don't keep repeating the same patterns. And I think, yeah, again, to throw out those terms is can I be who I truly am with all my strengths and opportunities to grow, to add value to whatever our team goal is?

Jonathan Friedman (He/Him) (18:50)
I hear stories all the time of people and teams who are sort of like when there's a crisis, there's, know, like certain benefits or certain systems that a team can put into place when that crisis hits. But if we look at it in the reverse way, if we start by building trust with our teams and all of those big moments, all of those growth moments, we have the trust for somebody to come up to us and say, Hey, I'm really struggling at home with blank.

or I'm struggling with this addiction, or I'm struggling with my mental health and I need to know what to access. Creating that trust in all of those other situations opens up the doors for that mid-level severity conversation as well.

Meagan (19:33)
Absolutely, absolutely. So the individual doesn't judge self or what call stigmatized, so self stigma, when there's an acceptance of, see who you are. There is space, compassion, empathy for the human condition and that life challenges can happen. And I am a safe place to talk about this. We together can come up with a strategy of potential resolution that may...

to support you and allow you to heal, recover, and join us to the best of your capacity now and with a goal of recovery and joining us fully once we get through that. So again, it's the acceptance of self as not being your employee and expect you to be a static, perfect person at all times. We're open to the shifts, we adapt, and we utilize agility and resilience.

right, for self and for our team for others.

Jonathan Friedman (He/Him) (20:33)
I love that. Agility and resilience. I think that's a great segue into this last question, which is, what are your top tips for balancing personal well-being with the demands of high stress careers?

Meagan (20:36)
the

Ah,

great question. I like the term well-being. I'm gonna start off with that, because it gets away from the sense of when we talk about mental health, I still think within society we have this, mental health means mental illness. We're shifting, which I think is fantastic. With more and more education and acceptance, we are getting to that place. Why I like well-being is that sense of well-being is more than just physical. It is a whole robust, comprehensive approach to

How can I manage the challenges that life presents me by using the strategy and tools so that I create balance in my life? So well-being is a comprehensive approach that talks about my psychological well-being, my social emotional well-being, my physical well-being, and even potentially my spiritual well-being. So when I look at one of the skills or tips and strategies is one, let's first understand self. Who am I?

What are my strengths? What are my weaknesses? Can I be really honest as to what's causing me distress right now? That gives me the insight. So then, okay, if I'm struggling and it's psychological, am I struggling at work or am I struggling with something with this and addiction because I'm not coping with work or I'm having family challenges? What are the things that I can do? Do I need to talk to a clinician, a counselor? Do I draw on my support network? Do I

develop new tools. Maybe it's a combination. I like a comprehensive circle of care approach. No one person is going to be able to provide all the answers. So maybe it's journaling because that's something I can choose to do on my own. When I work with clients or developing a wellbeing framework, which I've done in organizations, is I like to provide different components that can speak to individuals. identify what are the things I need to do for my mental wellbeing? Okay, journaling.

making sure I have the right support network, really understanding my own self-talk. Social emotionally, am I getting enough support, enough social inclusion, enough social activity in my life? Am I getting involved? Social isolation can create space to open up negative self-talk. We need a balance between how much we get involved with others because we're living in a vacuum. We are social creatures.

know how much social activity I need. Do I understand what's causing my emotional reactions? Do I, I am an emotional being. All emotions are valid emotions. What are causing these, these emotional responses? So really understanding that ground. There's a theorist, a practitioner named Mark Brackett who has a ruler approach. It's fantastic. You might've heard a little bit about that. It's really understanding what am I feeling? Why am I feeling it? What is my mood? How can I learn to regulate it?

And then of course, most of us know there is a physical capacity. My body follows the mind. So when I become physical and active by taking care of my body through different activities, being going to the gym, running, meditation, yoga, whatever works for you. It's not prescriptive. It's not like do this, this, and this is a magic bullet. It's knowing what's going to resonate within me. What do I need to do? What's going to make me feel better over a time period? So it's not every single day I do this. I pick. It's like a s'mores and org.

understanding, ah this is working, I'm getting feedback from it, fantastic keep doing it. And then you know there's a spiritual peace. Now that can be meditating, it can be going to a temple, it can go into a church, whatever works for you as an individual and then we build out. So it's understanding self and then picking those things from a comprehensive model of what will make you feel well and doing it over a long term.

Jonathan Friedman (He/Him) (24:34)
think there's a few pieces here. One, there's the mental illness exists, but there's also mental well-being. And when we're looking at mental well-being, we're looking at ourself and what makes us full. We can have the things we can do on our own. We have our non-professional supports and family and loved ones and partners and friends and community members that we can access. There's professional supports.

And then those pieces as well. And it's really this whole holistic circle of care model as opposed to, yeah, if you do these like three things, you're going to be all right, kid.

Meagan (25:14)
Exactly. Yeah, I love that. think it is. Again, I think you summarized it really well. It's understanding yourself and knowing what's going to resonate with balance. It's really balance that will take us forward.

Jonathan Friedman (He/Him) (25:29)
Fantastic. Megan, it's been

an absolute honor and pleasure to have you on the show. If you were to leave listeners with one piece of advice around starting their own journey with mental health, what would you tell them?

Meagan (25:34)
you.

Oh, that's a great question. I think, you know, I always say to my clients, it's two pieces. It's the, I like to put it into insight, execution, understand who you are, right? Understand your story to date. What are all those amazing things that experiences in your life that have made you the person you are? What were those challenges? What are those hindrances? Okay, great. Let's learn some tools, skills around it, and then let's start executing, right? So insight, tools, execution.

We do that over time, over time, come back, tweak, go out, and we are an evolution of self. That insight helps us to understand what's that unique value? Who am I? And how can I strengthen it and flourish in the world? And how can I give it back to the community so I can shine?

Jonathan Friedman (He/Him) (26:23)
And for all of our listeners out there, I know you mentioned that group therapy program that you're running. Where can people find you learn more about the work that you do, learn more about the therapy program.

Meagan (26:23)
Wonderful.

Okay.

Absolutely. So everyone can find me at Amanda Tobe and Associates. There is information about the imposter syndrome group that's going to be coming up towards the of January, February. It's a 10 week program. It's really interactive. It's solutions focused. It's a fun, great, insightful dynamic, which I'm sure you're going to learn a lot about. So just Google me or check out the website and all the information will come up. And I look forward to meeting some new people and helping everyone who joins on their journey.

Jonathan Friedman (He/Him) (27:06)
Amazing. Thank you so much, Megan. And for those of you looking to learn a little bit more about EHN Canada, it's a place for both virtual and inpatient treatment programs for mental health and addiction. You can check it out at ehncanada.com. And to listen to even more episodes of the Five FAQs podcast, we even had Amanda Tobe, Dr. Tobe on the show as well. You can check it out on your favorite streaming platform.

Meagan (27:07)
Thank you.

Jonathan Friedman (He/Him) (27:30)
Thank you so much and we will see you next time.