The Business of Life with Dr King
Dr Ariel Rosita King brings on a variety of International guests from various countries, cultures, organisations, and businesses to talk about turning
problem into possibilities! Let's turn our challenges in opportunities together!
The Business of Life with Dr King
The Saudi Arabia You Don't Know with Corina Goetz
What does modern Saudi Arabia really look like, beyond the headlines and outdated stereotypes? Corina Goetz takes us on a fascinating journey through her decade-long experience with the kingdom, revealing a country that has transformed dramatically since her first visit in 2011.
Drawing from personal stories that span from Formula One concerts to metro rides with her 12-year-old son, Goetz paints a vivid picture of Saudi hospitality and rapid cultural evolution that contradicts Western misconceptions. "People are super friendly," she explains, describing how complete strangers have shown her kindness, from security guards offering company while she waited for her driver to fellow passengers insisting she take their seat on public transport.
As someone who grew up in East Germany, Corina Goetz brings a unique perspective to cultural stereotyping. She draws powerful parallels between her experiences of East-West German prejudice and the way Gulf nations are often misrepresented in Western media. This personal connection fuels her passion for building cultural bridges and challenging outdated narratives about Saudi society.
The conversation explores Vision 2030, Saudi Arabia's ambitious blueprint for modernisation, diversifying beyond oil dependency, and empowering its youthful population; 70% of Saudis are under 30. Goetz highlights remarkable developments in tourism, entrepreneurship, and women's empowerment, including the appointment of HRH Princess Reema Bandar. Al-Saud as Ambassador to the United States of America since 2019.
Whether you're curious about business opportunities, cultural protocols, or simply discovering the unexpected side of Saudi Arabia (did you know they have rose festivals?), this episode offers invaluable insights from someone who has witnessed the kingdom's transformation firsthand. As Corina Goetz advises: "Leave your misconceptions at the door and just open your mind—you may find something quite unique and special."
Music, lyrics, guitar and singing by Dr Ariel Rosita King
Teach me to live one day at a time
with courage love and a sense of pride.
Giving me the ability to love and accept myself
so I can go and give it to someone else.
Teach me to live one day at a time.....
The Business of Life
Dr Ariella (Ariel) Rosita King
Original Song, "Teach Me to Live one Day At A Time"
written, guitar and vocals by Dr. Ariel Rosita King
Dr King Solutions (USA Office)
1629 K St, NW #300,
Washington, DC 20006, USA,
+1-202-827-9762
DrKingSolutons@gmail.com
DrKingSolutions.com
Hello and welcome to the Business of Life. Today we have a very special guest, Lady
Corina Goetz:Karina
Dr Ariel R. King:Welcome.
Corina Goetz:Thank you for having me. It's such a pleasure to be here.
Dr Ariel R. King:Thank you. Can you please tell us a little bit about yourself? Thank you.
Corina Goetz:Can you please tell us a little bit about yourself? Sure, I'm originally German, but now I live in London. I've lived in London for quite a number of years and I have a very special interest in the Middle East, specifically the Gulf region.
Dr Ariel R. King:And I do talk a lot about Saudi. Thank you so much, so let's get into our subject today we're going to be talking about. What would you like to speak about today? Is it Saudi Arabia or the Gulf region in general?
Corina Goetz:I think let's talk about. I think let's talk a little bit about Saudi, because I think it's the big unknown and so many people don't know enough about it. You know, I think a lot of the things that people do know are outdated and they are from like 10, 15, 20 years ago, when things have actually changed and moved on really rapidly.
Dr Ariel R. King:Wonderful. Thank you so looking forward to this and please give us an introduction. Thank you so much.
Corina Goetz:So I started going to Saudi when you couldn't actually go to Saudi officially. Well, first of all, you could go, you could go on business, but it was not easy, because you needed somebody to invite you and you had to jump through lots of different hoops and loops and specifically, specifically as a woman, it was not guaranteed that your visa was going to be granted, because a tourist visa was never really a thing up until 2018. Because the only tourism that Saudi traditionally used to have was for people to go on pilgrimage, so for Hajj, so for religious reasons. But I did manage to get a visa and I my first trip to Saudi was in 2011 and it was really, really interesting because, you know, the people were very hospitable, but obviously it was very different to what it is now, because back then, as a woman, you had to, you know, cover your hair and there were a lot of different kind of requirements, and I think this is what a lot of people still remember to this day, which is why there is so many misconceptions. And it's actually really timely, because today I just saw an article in the Times by the journalist called Emily Maitlis, who's quite a famous journalist in Britain, and it was so badly done, clearly done zero research on Saudi and it was just the typical thing that you would have thought what happened sort of 10, 15 years ago. But it's not true anymore, because by now you can get a tourist visa. Your visa arrives within two minutes, you can apply online, you know, as a woman, you don't have to cover your hair, you don't even have to wear an abaya, people are super, super friendly and we are in March now and I've already been to Saudi twice this year.
Corina Goetz:I was there in January and I was there in February, and in February I actually took my son, who is 12, and he used to look at my pictures from Saudi and saying you need to take me. This looks pretty good, you know, and this is, this is for, like you know, when you, when you look at this with through the innocence of a child who doesn't know any different, who hasn't read anything different, who has no misconception and purely judges it by what he's heard and what he's seen. So I took him in February and he absolutely loved it and you can imagine, obviously in his class people were like you've gone to Saudi on holiday. That's interesting. He's like, yes, and I went to, like a football game and I saw Ronaldo and I went to the mosque to, you know, to learn some more about what was. You know what the religion is like and what is going on.
Corina Goetz:I tried out the new metro in Riyadh. So he had so many stories to tell and it was. I think that was just so beautiful many stories to tell, and it was. I think that was just so beautiful and I think that's what we need to look at and not what some people, what kind of stereotypes people still peddle around from, like years ago.
Dr Ariel R. King:I would literally love the fact that you're saying that your son went and he saw it from from fresh eyes, and I think that's really important and that's why I'm so happy that we're speaking to you today, because you've had so many experiences since 2011 till now and for me, I don't really care about what people say that's not correct. For me, you're the expert because you've done it.
Corina Goetz:You know, you don't just read Saudi Arabia, but the people in Saudi I mean people always say to me when I talk to them about Saudi, over here, like in Britain or in Germany, they're like, yeah, you know, this is really easy for you to say because you know so many people, which, yes, is true to a certain extent, because I do know't know the people and they didn't know me and they just did that because that's part of their culture and that's part of their hospitality. So I'm just going to give you a couple of examples. So number one was back in 2021, I went to Jeddah because they hosted the very first Formula One race, and I don't care about sport, but Formula One I love. This is my favorite thing ever. So I thought, yes, and I had a friend. He said why don't you come out here and we go to the Formula One? And I was like, oh my God, yes, I'm coming. So I did.
Corina Goetz:And then, part of the Formula One, they had concerts afterwards and actually the headline concert back in 2021 was Justin Bieber, which was really interesting, so anyway, so I went to the concert, ended up losing my friends and I did have a car with a driver to pick me up, but of course, you know, like it's like these are big events. So, like my car is not the only car on the road, so, um, so I had to wait because my driver was like stuck in traffic. And um, so I walk outside by the street and there's the security there for the concerts, and they said, obviously they didn't know me, I didn't know them. And they said, oh, are you waiting for your driver? And I said yes, and they said why don't you sit with us, you know, and we can chat and we'll look after you. And I was like this is so nice, you know, because this would not happen to you in England. They would be like come on, go on your way. So that's number one.
Corina Goetz:Number two was when we were in Riyadh in February and we went on the Metro, we actually bought first class tickets because, a we wanted to see what was first class like and you could sit right in front of the metro, which was pretty cool, and because I, you know, do a lot of stuff on LinkedIn and I do a lot of things on Instagram, so I always take lots of videos and things, you know, so people can see what it's like. Anyway, so my husband and my son, they sit down in the seats and I just like keep standing there. And there's another seat close to them and it was like a Saudi man sitting there. And then he got up and he's like, no, no, you must sit with your family. And I'm like, no, no, this is okay, because you know I'm roaming around doing my videos and my pictures. He's like, no, but I insist, you must sit with your family. I'm like, oh my God, this is so nice, because again it does. I mean, let's not make it all bad for Britain.
Corina Goetz:It does happen that people get up in the tube for people, but it's not really as common as you get up for a woman that is clearly very able also to stand. I mean, you know, here you probably get up if you see somebody who's pregnant or who has some issues. That's fine. But I think overall I thought that was so nice and he didn't have to do that, like I didn't have to sit in his seat because there were also other seats around and I just thought you know, this is again, this is another example of where I didn't know the person and they were just so kind and they were just so nice and they just wanted to show their hospitality and I think this is what people just don't understand until you go there.
Corina Goetz:And it's so interesting because with the majority of the women that I talk to, they are all very, very hesitant to go initially. By the time they come back, they're like oh my god, this was the best trip ever, it was so good, like they've completely done a 180 on what they thought it was gonna be like and I just like. For me it's very important to be that voice that is a little bit different, that shares these kind of stories that happen to me when I'm out there and what my experiences are like with the locals, so I can empower other people to see that you don't need to read the clickbaity article from the times that is clearly very badly researched and you know it's just there to create whatever no, understood that.
Dr Ariel R. King:That's why we have you. Can I ask um, are you, have you been able to do any kind of business there, any kind of links to business um in the 14, 15 years you've been going back and forth and if so, what kind of businesses have you been able to link with what you do um in Europe?
Corina Goetz:so I mean, one of one of the things that I do is, obviously, I help Western businesses understand Middle Eastern culture, and I think that is very, very important because you know, if you don't know what you're walking into, it's very easy to make a cultural faux pas. So yes to that, so yes to that. And then, on the flip side, because my background is actually hospitality, I used to look after a lot of clients like delegations, you know, royals, people like that. So when I was in that hospitality, the reasons for my trip to Saudi were basically to find more clients. And the way to find more clients not just in in Saudi, also in Qatar, uae, the whole of the Gulf region is through relationships and it's through, you know, opening up, where you know you don't just talk to the people when they are your client, you talk to them throughout the year and you talk to them when it matters to them.
Corina Goetz:And these are some of the things that I now teach my western clients, because these are things that I still practice to this day, because I have people from Saudi princes, you know, royal family business people that I've known for 10-15 years, and I still go and see them, and every single time I'm out there, I have a whole long list of people to see and people always tell me oh my god, you didn't come and see me. I'm like, oh my god, I only had a week. You know, I only had so many slots, so it's like it's such a juggling act. So, basically, what I teach to my western client is what I practice still to this day and how I you know how I interact with my old Saudi clients, my Qatari clients, my Emirati clients, and that's another point that a lot of people think oh, you know, they're all from the Gulf, we can just do the same for all of them.
Corina Goetz:And I'm like, no, you can't, because if you even just look at Britain and the US, like it's not the same. Yes, we speak the same language, but we are not the same people, and that's exactly the same in the Gulf. And so it's about all these kind of nuances where I see that people go wrong, where there is a better way, and I think sometimes there's also just a lack of understanding, because the culture is so different to our European culture that, you know, people just don't understand and they just think, oh God, they just have too high expectation, or why are they asking me this? This is just rude. No, it's not, because they grew up in a totally different way and this is a different way of life.
Dr Ariel R. King:That's wonderful. May I ask over the years, did you learn Arabic, Did you already know Arabic and do you know Farsi? Did you start with any kind of cultural capacity, even through your German background or family members? And also, did you learn language and are you still using that language now?
Corina Goetz:not at all. I don't speak any Arabic, I don't speak any Farsi. I um, I mean obviously I speak German, I speak English, um, I had French in school. And, going back to my childhood, my first um foreign language that we we had to learn in school was Russian. Because I grew up in in East Germany and, to be honest, I had never met anybody from an Arab country. I'd never even known anything about the culture until I came to London and that just opened up such a big field. But it also feeds back into.
Corina Goetz:I could very quickly see how a lot of people from the Gulf region were very much stereotyped and that really annoyed me, purely because I came from East Germany and I knew what it was like to be stereotyped. Because in Germany and this is 30 years after the war came down now people still ask you, are you from the East or from the West? I mean, who cares, cares? It makes no difference. And if you look at Germany and this is so funny because you always see Europe and everybody always saying oh, you know, we're so far ahead of the gulf. No, you're not.
Corina Goetz:Because if you look in Germany, if you have a company and they have the headquarter in the western part, they still pay people that work for them in the east less than their counterparts in the West, and that's not okay, because this is 30 years later, you know. And so that's why I think I always had a very, very strong feeling about injustice and being stereotyped, and that really bothered me, because I could see that a lot of the people from the Gulf that I was working with they were so kind and they were so hospitable to me and they couldn't have cared less. I was German for them. You know East West who cares, but the Europeans were not like that, you know.
Dr Ariel R. King:And I think that's why I'm also so passionate about this whole kind of mission, because I could see and I don't want anybody else to feel how I felt- I really love that, and I myself have lived in Germany in what is now I mean, even still called East Berlin, even though it's not the East, and you can actually see differences and I know what differences you're talking about. And you can actually see differences and I know what differences you're talking about. What I really love is that you've taken your experience of how you grew up and what you experienced, and now you use that in order to bring the world closer together, understanding each. I think that you growing up in quote unquote East Germany, the Ost, yes has really helped you to do what you do now to give such incredible services to your clients and, more importantly, to help those who are not from this area in general to understand the differences within culture doesn't make it wrong, doesn't make it bad or somehow not warranted. It makes it a cultural difference. So I think it's absolutely amazing that you've used that.
Dr Ariel R. King:May I ask have you written a book about this? No, maybe I should. I think that you should consider it. It's quite interesting the way that you've used your life and your life experiences to help others, to bridge gaps, to bridge communication, to bridge understanding on both sides, to make life better, ending on both sides to make life better. Can I ask, do you actually also do official protocols for embassies and so on and so forth between the Middle East and Europe?
Corina Goetz:It's more. I would say it's more kind of like private companies, and I wouldn't sit here and say I'm a protocol expert. I mean I can explain you what the different titles are in the Middle East and how you read the names and all of those kind of things. But I'm, you know, I'm not somebody who's gone to like protocol school, but obviously all the stuff that I know is things that I've learned when dealing, looking after head of states and having to coordinate their whole sort of like hotel stays and stuff. And you learn by doing, um, which is really really interesting. And I've met some very interesting people and this is this is so funny, because especially my friends in the Middle East now they always say how do you know about this? And I was like, oh, because I met ABCD back in the day. And they're like, oh, really, so it's. So it's kind of like it's very much learning by doing.
Corina Goetz:Because also, let's not forget, when I first started and came to London this was the early 2000s there was like there was no social media. The internet obviously had just started, but the information, and even the information to this day, is not correct. I mean, I, a few years ago, I used to work with a hotel and you know, and you would have somebody high profile from the Middle East coming there like guest relation team, would try and pull some pictures so people would recognize the people. But most of the time the pictures were wrong because they had no idea who these people were. So I always had to go back and say, no, this is not him. You have to take this picture and stuff.
Corina Goetz:But this only comes from knowing and knowing also where to find the information. And if you didn't know, at least I knew who to ask. You know, to make sure that I had the right kind of information and that I could say to the general manager this is how you address this person. And they would always call me and say okay, what should I write in the welcome card? You know how do I need to address this person? I'm like so that I can. Definitely, I definitely know, but I'm not a protocol expert per se.
Dr Ariel R. King:Right. I was going to say, as someone that's worked in protocol myself, I would think that, in my opinion, from everything that you've done over the years, you've become a protocol expert by knowing, by doing, by speaking, by always having contact, as you said, whether they use your services or not, year after year, and retaining that information, using it. You might not have it on a degree title or a certificate, but I would say that the stamp of life has given you that that title of a protocol expert. That's really fantastic.
Dr Ariel R. King:Thank you. Let's see there's so much to ask how some people have come from any of the countries within the Gulf to the West and how there have been some faux pas that you've been able to help to straighten out or help to make sure it didn't happen, so then our audience could have a better understanding of that. I have done protocol. I call it that. You have done what you've done, but I don't think people really understand exactly what that means, so a couple of stories would be great.
Corina Goetz:Thank you, yeah, definitely don't think people really understand exactly what that means. So a couple of stories would be great. Thank you, yeah, definitely. Um, so I think for one, like what a lot of people again don't understand as much over here, and certainly not in Germany, because in Germany this is not a big thing with like titles and things is, but you have to get them right and and so I had a case where I had a couple of people traveling and they were very young, they were in their very early 20s, but they took great offense because the company called them, or the staff working for the company called them, by their different titles, for the company called them by their different titles and that company nearly lost revenues of over 200,000 pounds because they were like this is not acceptable, it's disrespectful to us and they should have done better. And the company basically then said, yeah, but we had dealt and this was going back to you can't put them all in the same pot. They had dealt with some clients from a different gulf nation that was not the same as those and they had wanted to be called like this. So they assumed that this was the correct way of doing it. But these clients were from a different country and they had very different titles and it was not correct and it offended them greatly.
Corina Goetz:So I think that was one of the things or, um, you know it's I've I've worked with. I've worked with people where they've given a speech out in the Gulf and you know you have to look at the culture and you have to look at the religion, because you don't want to offend anyone. And that particular person's speech was about diversity, which obviously in the west, diversity means something very different to what it means in, like, saudi. But thankfully, she worked with me, so we walked, we looked through the speech and I basically said to her I think you know, what will be really, really great is if you look at the diversity of the, you know of the progress they made in Saudi with the woman, and that's exactly what she did and and people loved it because that's a real big focus.
Corina Goetz:Um, for anyone who may or may not have heard, saudi has a blueprint for their future called Vision 2030.
Corina Goetz:And one of the big parts of that blueprint is to empower more women, get women into work, get women in really prominent positions, and you just have to look just a little bit at sort of like the political landscape, and I keep saying this um to so many people, because in the diplomatic world, the number one posting as an ambassador is washington, in the us, because obviously the us is who they are and it's a very prestigious post.
Corina Goetz:Now, the saudi Saudi ambassador to the US since 2019, for six years already, is a woman, is Princess Rima, and she has done tremendous work, you know, for women and again, it really defeats the stereotype oh no, a woman cannot do anything in Saudi Arabia and things. So I think those are the kind of things that we need to look at and these are the kind of things that I help people with, because sometimes it's really minor. You might think, oh, that title is really minor, but it's not, and it can have a massive impact and you might lose a contract and you may not even have an idea of why this happened, and it could be down to something as tiny as this.
Dr Ariel R. King:It's so true that makes such a difference. Can you tell us any more about the vision of 2030 and also where we might be able to find that? And I'm sure it's written in many languages, including English, but could you tell us more about that? I think that's so interesting.
Corina Goetz:Yeah, of course I mean. So Vision 2030 came out actually initially in 2016. So it's been around for nearly nine years and it basically is the blueprint to bring Saudi into the modern world. First of all, to diversify away from oil, because we all know that oil is not going to be sustainable, it's obviously not environmentally friendly and there's there's lots and lots of different things, but I think what, for me, is the beautiful thing about vision 2030, it's basically to give people something like something to look forward to, like where are we going, what are we doing and why are we doing this?
Corina Goetz:Because the other thing that is so interesting and not many people know is that 70% of the Saudi population is under 30, which means it's a young population. You want to inspire them. You want to inspire them to become entrepreneurs, start businesses, create really great careers for yourself, and one of my dearest, dearest friends in Saudi he is. He has he's built the most phenomenal coffee business, and I've seen it from the very beginning, because he's been doing this for for sort of like a good probably 10 plus years now. So he started early, but, oh my god, he's built this amazing coffee business and he couldn't be more passionate about coffee and how he does it and how he educates people, and I just love that and I think you know that's that's also a big part of Vision 2030 to inspire the younger generation. Because, again, you know, yes, you can give people money, but if you have no purpose in life, like what's the point? You know you need to have something to strive forward. And then, of course, they've, all you know, seen all the changes, all the entertainment that they brought in.
Corina Goetz:But for me, what is the most exciting in Saudi is the tourism, because they have so many incredible places that even some of my Saudi friends said we didn't even know we had them. You know, like which is? I'm like, wow, this is amazing and I've um. I now make a point to try and see something different, go somewhere different, so I get a bit more flavor of what else Saudi is like.
Corina Goetz:So last year I went to Taif, which is um very close to Jeddah, so not too far from the Red Sea, but basically Taif has um a rose festival at the end of April, early May, and they um have, like you know, like the most beautiful roses. And when I went, my dad in Germany, he called me up and he was like what do you mean? You're going to Saudi to a rose festival? I didn't, I thought they were just desert. I was like, no, they have like amazing roses. So I kept sending him pictures. He's like, oh my god, I never knew, so it's so. It's all of those kind of really cool things that you know are very exciting for me and I think, like it's beautiful to explore something that you haven't seen before and that's so different.
Dr Ariel R. King:Thank you so much. Our 30 minutes went by so quickly. Do you want to?
Corina Goetz:have any last thoughts or any last comments for our audience about Saudi Arabia, I think I would say leave your misconceptions at the door and just open your mind and you may find something that is quite unique and special.
Dr Ariel R. King:I want to thank you for our time together and, truthfully, I'd like to invite you back again because there's so much to talk about. I think the next time I would love to talk about tourism in Saudi Arabia To our audience. Thank you for being with us and remember if I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? If not now, then when? That's by the philosopher Hillel, and I've added if not me, then who? Thank you so much for joining us.