Healing Begins When We Listen To Those Who Suffer with Jane Durgom-Powers (USA)

Loss doesn’t pause for paperwork, borders, or neat definitions of war. Dr King sits down with Jane Durgum-Powers, founder and CEO of Families of the Missing, to unpack what it takes to support people living with disappearance, displacement, and the long tail of conflict. Jane Durgum-Powers shares how her organisation evolved from a UN-focused coalition on armed conflict to a global network that centres families’ voices across cultures and legal systems—and why renaming to Families of the Missing made their work easier to find, fund, and scale.

We talk through the tough moments that change lives: a survivor who breaks her silence, a former soldier who kneels to apologise, a room that shifts from anger to accountability.Jane Durgum-Powers explains how she builds mixed seminars in refugee camps, assesses readiness and risk, and creates space for dignity to take root. From licensing barriers and downsized offices to Zoom-driven partnerships, she lays out a practical playbook for NGOs navigating UN reforms, shrinking budgets, and the demand to collaborate with governments and business. The through-line is simple and radical: go to the people first, listen hard, and adapt the plan to what they say.

If you’ve ever wondered why statistics undercount suffering, this conversation brings the field into focus. We explore the hidden logistics that decide care—IDs for hospital access, mined roads that block legal work, travel funds that families don’t have—and how to build buffers into programmes so help reaches those who can’t reach you. Along the way, Jane offers a clear-eyed take on UN restructuring, what bottom-up and top-down strategies each unlock, and how shared grief can be the first step toward a durable peace.

Join us to hear a humane, grounded approach to humanitarian work that links hope to action. If this resonates, subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a review to help more listeners find these stories—and this path to practical compassion.

Music, lyrics, guitar and singing by Dr Ariel Rosita King

Teach me to live one day at a time
with courage love and a sense of pride.
Giving me the ability to love and accept myself
so I can go and give it to someone else.
Teach me to live one day at a time.....

Chapters

• 0:00 Guest Introduction And Mission
• 3:02 Why The Name And Scope Changed
• 6:02 The Shared Pain Of Loss
• 8:42 Listening To Survivors First
• 12:37 Refugee Camps And Building Trust
• 17:17 A Story Of Harm, Accountability, Healing
• 21:27 Youth, Barriers, And Hope
• 24:57 How NGOs Operate And Partner
• 30:07 Bottom Up Or Top Down?
• 33:37 UN Reform And NGO Realities

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:43

Hello, and welcome to another episode of The Business of Life with Dr. King. Today we have a very special guest, my colleague and friend, Lady Jane Durgum Powers. Welcome.

SPEAKER_00: 0:57

Thank you. Happy holidays to you and your audience.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00: 1:01

Would you please introduce yourself to our audience? I'm Jane Durgum Powers. I am the founder and CEO of Families of the Missing, which is our current name. We started the organization in 2003, and our name, original name, was the International Federation of Family Associations of Missing Persons from Armed Conflict. And the acronym was EFEMPAC. But over the years, as you well know from working in the United Nations, uh, we were we originally focused only on armed conflicts and working with families, but we structured it so that we could have family associations in each country and working with the leaders of those, because there are so many millions of people around the world that have lived through conflicts of internal conflicts, international conflicts, that they really need a spokesperson for their area. And so that's how we structured it. But as you know, the United Nations and countries love to say a date is the beginning of the conflict and the end. And that's not always accurate when there's a loss. So in about 2006, roughly that time frame, the United Nations asked me if we would consider expanding our work, which is applicable to many situations in countries that don't necessarily meet the definition of an armed conflict. So the other reason was everybody was massacring our name. It was way too long. And in all the resolutions and speeches and all the things that we were very active in, the UN said, Yeah, yeah, let's just call them families of the missing or let's call them conflict families. It was when you go into the United Nations archives and libraries for both Geneva and New York, if if you don't get that name that someone decided to call us, you'd never find our thread of work. So we agreed upon families of the missing as something that we thought everybody could handle. But often in international countries, we're still not as efemped. So that's us, and that's what we do. We work with the families in different situations when there are missing family members. And we work to keep the families together, but also understand what is the current need. Every country is different, every situation is different. You have to really look at country laws, you have to look at religious laws, cultural, not really laws, but cultural procedures and norms that are followed. And it's a little bit like Star Trek, you know, you know, you go into each country, but you don't disturb, you know, the way they are. You just try to work within the country and with the people. And it's really been an overwhelming but wonderful adventure for me. I've really learned to appreciate much more the psyche of people. And it's no matter where I go, no matter where we work, it's the same. It's a lot of pain. And the human spirit tries to understand why. Why is this happening to me? And I listen and you and you work internally, and we hear politicians or leaders trying to define and focus a solution. But it's interesting to me because they never talk to the people, they don't get the heart of the people, they don't understand what it is. And often it's the government that has committed the wrongdoing or their chosen non-military people so that they don't look like they're the ones doing it. And it's it's a human problem that really needs to be, in my view, looked at a completely different perspective. If you're going to have sustainable peace, you have to work with both sides of the conflict. There's only one thing that families have and citizens of country have when there's a conflict. And that is they both feel the pain of a lost family member. And they both want to go back to a family structure instead of generations after generations hating and bringing up the past and really not solving today's issues that they face. I've talked way too long.

SPEAKER_01: 6:17

But that's I mean no, you haven't talked way too long. I mean, I one of the reasons why I haven't said anything is because I think it's just so very interesting. And I love the way you you speak about the fact that no matter what country it is, they basically feel some of the same pains. The second part of this that you talked about, which I think is incredibly interesting, is that somehow the people who are a part of this aren't asked about their experiences. I'm wondering how is it possible to address this without doing that? So I believe that you do address their experiences. And may I ask, how do you do that? I find this just so fascinating.

SPEAKER_00: 6:52

Well, when we go into a country where it's post-conflict or maybe a situation where there's been genocide, and you know, like I said, legalities come in. Well, let's not call it genocide, let's do it this and that. It doesn't matter. People are traumatized. And I, when many years ago, when I had to make the decision whether we go into certain countries in Africa, and I went there to Ethiopia and met with the AU, there are so many restrictions that individual countries impose upon their citizens. Many countries would not allow us to go in because we didn't fit the criteria of allowing their citizens to be social and interact. You know, if you were a religious organization, that was okay. If you wanted to talk about education, that's okay. If you wanted to deal with human rights, that was not okay. And so you really have to be creative. And I remember when I made the decision to go into Zambia, people criticized me. Like, why are you doing that? All these conflict country peoples and refugees, they're in refugee camps and they're never going to get out of refugee camps. Why do you care? Why do you go in there with the hope of teaching people about global rights of a human being or talk about what happened? And I said, Well, let me explain something to you. I'm not God, nor are you. And in my view, I don't care where they live, if it's a refugee camp, if it's in a desert area or a city. The pain is there, and they need to talk it and get it out. So we I we went in and we had a lot of support from different NGOs, and we brought, you know, books and education. We tried to get different healthcare organizations to come in and teach about hygiene and all this and that. And I one of my joyous moments was when I was talking to our country representative, and we put on seminars and we tried to focus, we want everybody there from both sides of the conflict. It doesn't matter to us if you're a child or a teenager or a parent, but you have to sense where the people are. Is the anger still there? Is it right after the conflict, or have they been there a while? And what's it like in the refugee camp? You need to assess all of that. So you need how to approach them and give them spirit and hope in their hearts, and to to preserve their identity. There was men and women, adults, that we had in this one course, and there was a woman that just didn't talk. She was really very recluse, and she would listen and she'd show up. And there were men at that meeting from the opposite side of the conflict. And we talked about the conflict, we talked about their life before the conflict, and all of a sudden, one day she stood up and she said, I want to talk. And she told her story. She had been captured by the opposing military. She was like many women kept by the military for about a month, continually beaten, raped, and left to die. And this man stood up after hearing her story, and he goes, Oh my God. He got on his knees, he crawled over and he goes, grabbed her hand, will you forgive me? I I didn't understand. We were the military, this is what militaries do. And he said, For the first time I realized something. Before this conflict, I had a family, I had a house, I had a job. Now we're look at me. I'm in a refugee camp. Likely never to leave. And what was all this for? You are damaged. Now I'm damaged because I realize now what I did. After that, that's when the healing starts. That's when people open up and talk about I'm mad at you, I don't like you. And when they get all that out, then you can start from the ground floor. Okay, that's the past. What are we gonna do right now to have a better future? What can we do? What can we understand about dignity and respect to others? And that's what our programs are all about. Look, there is no prosthetic device for a broken heart. You cannot mechanically heal it. The only way you can heal it is your soul and yourself. And trust me, that's a lot of hard work. I don't care where you live, in the West, in a third world country, the pain is the same. It's there. And I worry about the younger generation because they're so smart and they are so alert, and I'm so proud of them because they want to have a better environment. They want their country to do better, and they themselves want to do better. But there are so many restrictions, as you know, sometimes women are not allowed out of the house or to go to school because of different impositions put on them from either religious or government or whatever. And their hearts are so pure and so interested in communicating with people everywhere to grow as a person. And I and I just think that is so important if we're gonna continue to try to strive to be a civilized global community. Oh, I'm sorry, I can't hear you.

SPEAKER_01: 13:28

No, I I think that's I think that's amazing. Can I ask you what kind of when you're actually doing something like that, what do you actually do? Do you go into the country? Do you actually have people that you work with? How does that work?

SPEAKER_00: 13:38

We've had many different configurations, like many NGOs. You start off perhaps in a situation where you want to have an office there. And that again, it depends on the countries. You have some countries, you have to be licensed there. And you have to be licensed under certain criteria. And if the government says, no, no, you don't fit in our criteria, you can't go. So then you, I'm sorry, I can't hear you. It it's like no. No, no, it's okay. I I'm listening to you. Go ahead. My apologies. Go ahead, Dart. So no, no. So then you have to decide, well, what how do we still have a presence? So often you have to partner up. You know, the UN changes also in its, you know, what it desires. And I think you would know better than I. Maybe five or six years ago, they went to this. Okay, we want NGOs, we want government people locally, we want businesses, we want you all to partner together as one group before we will support what you're doing. Yes. Well, for some periods. Yeah, all the time. So we've we've had country representatives, we've had offices, we've tried a number of different situations. I think globally it's very bad economics. COVID really devastated a lot of NGOs because, you know, money-wise, we don't get funding, the priorities are different, and it's a struggle for everybody. I've really respected that most organizations have significantly downsized, and they are now through Zoom and other new IT situations. You can work with others and talk and have meetings, and you don't have to travel, which is a good thing. But on the other hand, all of that, you constantly have to change the mix in your views and be open to new working environments. You really do to survive. I think lately it's been more of a partnership. What we like to do is assess the situation and what is it you need? What is it that you want? And then you have to look at the realities. Well, you know, there are so many NGOs that do great things. You've got physicians for human rights and they physically go there and they give medical care. You've got a lot of different organizations that focus on one thing and one thing only, and that's great. So you kind of partner up and see what you can do. And we worked like a little bit of a coordinator to get it all there with the focus of the families. What is it that this particular situation needs? And that also changes over time. And as people grow stronger or different or whatever they want, you've just it's a constant, it's it's it's not fluid, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01: 16:40

Yeah, it has to be fluid and you have to have the possibility to change. And I think that now, even with uh partnerships between NGOs and government and businesses, I think the best part of that is the ability to change quickly, but that's also difficult. But I think as you were saying, the one thing that stays the same is people's experience of not just a broken heart, but somehow losing their soul, their their their foundation of living and why is life important? I think that's that's the case. May I ask? I mean, considering that we have different governments and we're working usually, you know, I know I've I've been doing it too for almost 30 years, one way or another, working within the UN system would actually allow us to have more of a possibility of working with various countries. How is it best to go through the people that are experiencing it first that perhaps live in refugee camps or wherever they are, and then try to work your way back with partnerships and government and so on and so forth? Or have you seen that you actually have to work from the top down? How is that working now? I mean, since things have changed so much.

SPEAKER_00: 17:49

That's a very good question. For me, I always want to go to the basics first. Everybody has different perceptions, and they tell you this and they tell you that. No. Thank you. I'd love to hear what you had to say. Thank you very much. But if we're going to go somewhere, you got to go to the people. You gotta hear it for yourself. You gotta read the play, you've got to go there, talk to a lot of people, evaluate who's talking to you and what they're saying. And then you have to realistically think about how to get there. And can you get there by yourself or what's the time frame? Who do you need? I, as you know, the UN is going through huge changes right now. This just yesterday, I was on a Zoom call with the deputy UN Secretary General, who is leading the UN 80 economic restructure. He was Guy Ritchie, he was very interesting to me. And I had to reflect in my own life and and work life, that is, about what he was saying. But in my view, where I think the UN is going to go. That helps us NGOs reflect upon our partnerships or do we change our programs? What do we do? He said that the UN is working at about 85% of the budget that's that's they have. And I had to reflect back to the beginning of the UN, which when it was created, it was right after World War II. And it was a different world back then. It was not very many countries that signed up originally over time. You look at that situation and the charter of the UN and the structure of the UN, and it worked back then. This is a whole century later. Whole century later. You have 193 countries in the UN and a lot of countries that haven't joined up yet. So you've got 193 countries. Now reflect in your mind. Everybody's got a problem. Some countries need water, some countries need food, some people countries need a different structure. Farming, you know, physical things to survive. Other countries need educational systems, medical assistance, and everybody's trying to survive. Everybody's wanting a better life. And there's nothing wrong with that. But you got 193 countries all wanting attention and all want to be this and that. So there's a lot of horse trading, as we would say, between these countries in the UN. And I get it. I mean it's overwhelming. It really is. Who's first? How do you decide? It's like triage, whose life do you save next? And it's not an easy way to balance all of that. And I understand the growth. I mean the UN went, okay, we're going to have an office in Vienna, we're going to have one in Geneva, we're going to have one in New York, one in Africa. Costs money, you know, all of that is that a better use of the money or should it be here? So it was an interesting Zoom call because I stood silent just to listen. I like to listen a lot. And a lot of the NGOs, instead of focusing on the goal of the meeting and the purpose, were just the opposite. They wanted to talk about their NGO and what they do and they didn't want the UN to forget it. Well, you know, that's great, but that wasn't the focus of the meeting. And I could see that that's part of the frustration is how do we handle NGOs? You know, how do we kind of and they're talking about changing agencies and merging agencies. So that's a lot of stuff going on. It's going to take several years to sort that out. And in so doing, what is that for you and I, what does that mean for us? How much money is going to be allocated? Are they going to now say okay we want to focus 90% on environmental issues, 10% on human issues. None of us know any of that. So it's it's an interesting time in the world right now. But for me I feel it's important for you and I and other people who've been in the this for a long time to still work with the people. You still got to be there for them. It may not be a hundred percent of what you'd like to do. But just the fact that you're there and you're helping them gives them hope and they need that if they're going to have a clear focus on survival. And boy, this is a lot of conflicts going on a lot of conflicts maybe going on pretty soon. It's a whole world of IT it's I mean in the refugee camps it cracks me up. These kids have phones, you know, I mean kids all of them have phones and know exactly what to do with them. Exactly you know that's a whole different world than when you and I grew up and I mean it's hard to balance it all you know and and problems with IT and internet, you know, and people abusing children and and there's so many issues out there. It's just hard to balance right now. I believe that but I think it's I I don't have the answers believe me.

SPEAKER_01: 23:55

I don't think you need the answers right I think the fact that you look at it honestly about what's going on and you say okay hope has to be there right humanity and hope have to be linked somehow. Somehow people have to understand that we're doing everything we can to let them know that we we see their humanity we see their human side and we're going to do everything that we can to give them hope. We're not promising anything because the truth is the world is in flux right now. We're all in flux right now. Flux is the state that that that's the that's the new normal is in flux. So I think very well stated thank you. Yeah just the fact that you give hope I think makes all the difference in the world. And I really love the fact that you are working between the United Nations and then people as you say on the ground. And I think that so often and at least what we do with uh as non-governmental organizations there are times that people are trying to be of service they're trying to make things better but there's so many times that they miss the people that they're supposed to be serving. So the fact you actually go to the people quote unquote on the ground or the people and ask directly what do they need is everything. There's the hope and there's a humanity I believe.

SPEAKER_00: 25:08

And you learn so much. I mean when we were doing a lot of work in Iraq people get governments and some of these UN people they're out of reality in my view. Okay I'm sitting there listening to you know the families that you know that we were working with and they have great family associations there. And the reality is example children are asleep in their beds and if the militia comes in or whatever you want to call them and terrorists whatever and they take the children out of their beds and they abuse them very badly. And then perhaps they're saved. They're rescued somehow and what do we do with them who are you where are you from kind of situation so there are NGOs that try to bring them back to their home but there is no more home. Their parents have all left the village has been burned so you try to find you know where they could go for medical care there perhaps aren't hospitals there or the culture of that community is okay you've been raped you've had kids you're 12 years old well then here's the reality if they are taken to hospitals most countries okay where's your ID papers? Hello? They're 12 years old they were sleeping in their bed like who sleeps with their passports right who sleeps with their driver's license and which is a deposit for many of them.

SPEAKER_01: 26:48

Many of them you know you have to come with some kind of money it's not just a matter of you you can just go to the hospital. This is true.

SPEAKER_00: 26:53

So and so okay in order to give medical care my people are saying they need to go back and they have to have lawyers researching the history of this family like where were you born and try to get some sort of paperwork that they are a citizen of that country and are entitled to get food and medical care. And then okay so the lawyers have to go to these various locations but the roads are filled with landmines. So you can't drive so then you look at like is there like helicopters or airplanes or you know how do you do all of this which costs money and then you have to take these people down have their picture taken so you can get an ID card.

SPEAKER_01: 27:35

All these things are never discussed when you are in the UN or you're sitting there listening to this and you're like do they understand what the facts were the real logistics of just trying to get I mean and what you're talking about too is that after being a victim or someone who has been victimized, I should say, somehow you're just trying to get services either medical which is intensely needed andor psychological in order to be able to go forward in whatever way that you can and you can't do that because all of a sudden you're not a known entity. Who are you? And that does that makes all the difference doesn't I think we don't think of that. And I think it's so important to have people like you and your organization that brings people like me and others back to reality. This is what it takes to do what we do. And even if we wanted to do it for free it's impossible because not everything in the world is free right we have to pay for these things we have to physically go there we have to do the IDs. And I think this makes all the difference so the fact that you're telling us about the reality is extremely important.

SPEAKER_00: 28:42

And I try to in the UN when I speak I try to say don't rely on statistics. Don't you know you read the the UN reports and they say well 35% of this or 15% of the victim you don't know those victims. Think about it when the UN goes there or other organizations there's a physical location where they'd go and they are there and they're trying to gather statistics okay you and I know in conflict the infrastructure in most situations they're gone. Now if you're a mother and you have children and you've escaped a very bad situation and you are with other women and their families and maybe 20 families in a little room somewhere or out camping somewhere if you want to get help and you are told you know these people are in this situation over here this NGO go see them. Now how are you going to do that? There's no infrastructure there's no buses there's no you walk it takes sometimes days to get to where others are so if you have a choice if you have five cents to use the five cents to pay someone if you hitchhike to take you somewhere or you buy food or medicine for your kids. So you know what you don't go because going somewhere to tell them I had 12 kids or you know I was in this community and there was so many villagers and we got all attacked and everybody ran. You're not going to do that. So often country statistics are skewed and I can't tell you I mean if if there's bombs dropping hospitals they grab the patients as many as they can to get out of there. No one's taking names and often the hospitals are bombed so there's no paperwork anymore or kids are leaving a school that's being bombed you think they know where their teacher and everybody else is you just get out of there. So I I don't have the answers nor does anybody but we try to paint a realistic picture. You know yes those are great numbers but don't hold them as being a hundred percent rely on them. That's so important. You've got to understand it's a bigger issue than that. So if you're going to allocate funds, if you think this conflict or this internal situation or tsunami that you know wiped out half the country that this is what you're going to allocate based on certain facts. Please think about it. You know that may not be an accurate assessment you need a little bit of a you know a cushion in there and the only way you're going to get it is to go down there and talk to the people hear what they have to say their situations but don't just wait for them to come to you. You got to go out. And I've talked many NGOs are like yeah but that means there's a car and gasoline and we can't there's no gas stations. So you know you bring a couple of gas cans with you but how far can you go you know it's really a situation where it's hard. It's hard in any country and even with modern technology which is great which helps a lot it's conflict time folks or it's not defined as a conflict but you got problems.

SPEAKER_01: 32:22

But people are not necessarily cooperating with each other. Well you should say that's right. And maybe we're doing the opposite you know I mean and in this season where this is the season where we have uh holidays all over the world of people talking about bringing in light and good will and and positive thinking and family and love and so on and so forth. I'm going to embrace that because with so much negative and not just negative but violence and so much inhumanity that we see it's it's NGOs like yours that bring back humanity to people and hope. So I want to thank you for that and thank you for our time.

SPEAKER_00: 33:02

I think thank you for allowing me to talk with you about it.

SPEAKER_01: 33:05

No I think we need to we need to when you can I know how busy you are but it would be great to have another session with you in the new year. And would you like to say anything else to our audience?

SPEAKER_00: 33:16

We have uh one more minute keep the faith just keep putting one foot in front of the other no matter what anybody tells you believe in yourself. Believe that it can work and if we start with that then the foundation starts to build a great strong effort from everybody that can work. And I want to wish you all a happy holiday.

SPEAKER_01: 33:43

And thank you for the opportunity to thank you. I'm you know you know me you're amazing and I'm so grateful that we've had this time together for our audience. Remember if I'm not for myself who will be for me? If I am only for myself what am I? If not now then when that was by the great philosopher Hillel and I've added to that if not me then who? Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. Bye bye